GauchoGreg

Ultime / G-Class Development

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8 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Got to outrun the low just a bit more to get headed to the great circle route 

 

Looks like he should get around to south east of Madagascar  before it gets light and he should be well in advance of his own time by then.  The end may be a bit more painful.  So impressive.

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The next 12 hours will be critical to stay in front of the front. If he does not, he will still have plenty of wind from WSW, but the sea state might not be as prone to warp speed...

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Yeah, it looks like that low is moving pretty fast, but so is Joyon as he crosses the 750 mile/day mark.  It looks like he would need to get in the 800s to stay on the leading edge of that system.

It is really remarkable to push so hard, even now that he's 63, really amazing.

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Quick check on ocean currents forecast for tomorrow. (not very reliable), but nice eastbound current at 40ºS

Great circle and past track went to 40ºS, so might smooth the track a bit.  

Trippy.

2132092933_ScreenShot2019-10-31at9_36_04PM.png.ed29aa5db3e9aa79c7e2d74c3552c4fb.png

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Looks like FJ is falling off the back of that depression.  Has a  great run there for a while. He's still well in advance of his record time though which was his only objective for this leg.

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For once I was right!!

The low system was moving Eastward too fast for him to stay in front, or he caught it too late, or both...

He is now doing 20+ boat speed, where he was doing 30+ boat speed before the front... Still damn fast! And still a lot of wind for a long time; he is already 700 miles ahead of his own 10 years old records; spare any big incident, this one should be in the bag...

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yup. FJ says he had to back off: 

Quote

I don’t like seeing my boat suffer

Francis Joyon: “I could have sailed three knots faster, but the boat kept bouncing off the waves. The whole boat would vibrate. I have rarely seen this sort of reaction. I gybed three times during the night to get back behind the cold front,” added Francis, who remains as calm as ever even when talking about such horrible conditions. There is a lot at stake for IDEC SPORT. If he manages to stick with this weather system, as he has done for the last two days, in two days from now, he may be able to point his bows under the longitude of the Cape of Good Hope almost two days ahead of his record from 2009. If however, the weather system, moving rapidly at almost thirty knots in the wide open desert of the Southern Ocean, gets away from him, it will only be in four days from now that IDEC SPORT will pass under the southernmost tip of Africa.

more at https://www.idecsport.com/en/a-day-full-of-contrasts/ 

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In case it hasn't already been posted: Gitana 17 flying!

 

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22 hours ago, stief said:

yup. FJ says he had to back off: 

more at https://www.idecsport.com/en/a-day-full-of-contrasts/ 

But still over 1000 nm in advance now and looks to have wind almost all the way in but probably not the best sea state.

This tour looks to be at least as interesting as the forthcoming Brest Atlantiques.  Hoping Bernard Stamm gets back from his Arctic trip in time to join in at least some of the fun. 

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A quick check of sea state on Windy looking better than 8 hrs ago, so that's reassuring.  Last night swell 2 was from the NW, and swell 1 from the SW, which would have been miserable. Now at least Windy thinks the swells are better aligned. 

2001976231_ScreenShot2019-11-02at9_37_03AM.png.aaf1cb21608cb913e1b73179a57a10eb.png

https://www.windy.com/-37.669/10.309/waves?gfsWaves,waves,-40.847,8.262,4,m:cCoagsl (google maps used to convert DM.M to decimal degrees)

[off topic--my browser has been incorrectly showing the time of the last article posted on the IDEC site "A DAY FULL OF CONTRASTS" by Jeremy Payne  as 36 mins ago, but I read that a while ago. Guessing this is a local cache issue, but does anyone else see the same problem? https://www.idecsport.com/en/a-day-full-of-contrasts/ ]

Anyway, looking good for his route around the Cape. 

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Mine does too

20191102_091430.thumb.jpg.8cd19e21ddbf47fcfc864202403c0805.jpg

I did not notice any edits to the article, but I did not look that closely either. Might be a defect on the server side.

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Thanks Varan. Interestingly,  the site's French page is even "more recent"

Was going to submit a bug report, but the Contacts page is discouraging in both languages :P

584998264_ScreenShot2019-11-02at11_30_27AM.png.db62b6c9186a722e26569ce4e164af67.png

No matter. FJ still trucking along nicely at 28.3 knts

 

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yeah, and to see how they'd route for the soft spot forecast in 5 days

1571741755_ScreenShot2019-11-02at11_50_57AM.png.deebd8d9c4ee39f7b9c37804addc7577.png

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Easy, just head SE, round the horn and go for the fastest around the planet instead.

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Snicker. Just like Brisbane Bill 96 days ago, on his 3rd attempt at the westabout single handed record.

1790814494_ScreenShot2019-11-02at12_38_23PM.png.6c60926337148c47d1187c05f24e6c44.png

[sure miss the ease and convenience of using Forss' tracker]

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Lots of gybes working the winds and currents for FJ

Quote

An infernal pace in a most hostile environment

A pace in the violent conditions typical of the great South that astonishes the most knowledgeable observers. At the forefront of these, Christian Dumard, the weather adviser on land of Francis, who does not mask this morning his admiration: "We can not imagine what Francis is currently living in these latitudes! Perhaps by observing the current conditions at the tip of Brittany can we have an idea of the conditions in which Francis manages to move a maxi-multihull at high speed! "

https://translate.google.ca/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.idecsport.com%2Ffrancis-joyon-franchit-le-cap-des-tempetes-avec-deux-jours-et-19-heures-davance%2F

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Still hanging onto the low, and looking to stay on. FJ obviously able to implement good advice from Christian Dumard

Update:

Quote

Francis Joyon: “I am continuing with the same weather pattern in order to advance on the northern edge of this low,” the skipper of IDEC SPORT confirmed. “During the night, I had a bit of a scare, when the wind dropped off suddenly to 14 knots. The skies were completely clear and I thought for a moment that the high had caught me. It was only a short worry, as the wind soon got up again, a bit lighter than during the weekend, at around 25 knots.”  This means he can still speed along at 27-28 knots and maintain his huge lead of almost 1300 miles over the record pace. We can remember that in 2009, when the second IDEC trimaran to bear the name climbed up towards Mauritius, it was particularly testing. “I had to sail a long way east on the stretch down below South Africa,”remembers Francis. “This year, the weather pattern is much more favourable. I shall be maintaining these high speeds for another 930 miles or for a day and a half, before turning left and climbing up the Indian Ocean towards Mauritius.”  Some brighter weather and a warmer atmosphere lie ahead for Francis. “Christian (Dumard – editor’s note), suggested I carry out some gybes during the night to position myself in relation to the Agulhas Current and avoid the nasty waves coming towards me in this area. The wind turned to the south for a moment and the temperature dropped off. I now only have a 12-foot swell and IDEC SPORT is sailing smoothly.”

https://www.idecsport.com/en/idec-sport-continues-to-speed-along-in-the-southern-ocean/

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The big four are off with mains only into a good blow with swell
Sorry if you don't do facebook but great helichopper footage

The Start...

 

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600 nm to go for FJ. Couple of days in hand. Rolling in at 18kn. He just keeps doing it 

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On 11/5/2019 at 4:26 PM, PIL66 - XL2 said:

Excellent video showing the difference between Sodebo  and Gitana 17(revolutionary foil system)-Go Gitana 17!

--Macif and Gitana 17 are using a revolutionary foil system featuring UptiP ama foils and an adjustable mainfoil capable of massive downforce-able to generate at least 20% of the total RM for the boats.

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That's probably just an impression, but sodebo look heavy and not really agile compare to the 2 other foilers

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Great teamwork planning the route. Even though the low initially moved faster than usual, FJ was able to hang on and follow it up to the north east at the end--and then got very lucky that the ridge dissipated. 

Once again, choosing the departure time from Europe in order to maximize the chance to catch the right low to Cape Town makes further chances for records slim. IDEC nailed this one.

Quote

The skipper of the IDEC SPORT maxi-trimaran is currently speeding due north twoards Mauritius, which is just 190 miles ahead. He is expected to cross the finishing line tomorrow morning at around 0700hrs local time or 0200hrs UTC after twenty days of sailing. In so doing, he will have improved on the reference time he set in November 2009  by more than six days.

https://www.idecsport.com/en/francis-joyon-getting-ready-to-smash-the-mauritius-route-record/

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2 hours ago, popo said:

That's probably just an impression, but sodebo look heavy and not really agile compare to the 2 other foilers

Agreed, I had the same impression. If I remember well, they have not fitted a T foil on the central hull dagger board yet, like the other ones did... Right?

That might be it...

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Huh. With 45 nm to go, looks like FJ is going around the windward side of the island to the finish.

630897525_ScreenShot2019-11-07at6_54_17PM.png.fff53f433bed6792f79c99f2350e7cc2.png

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So with less than 8 nm to go FJ and IDEC should be across the line with a final gybe to the 'black' Port Louis before the next update.

336883004_ScreenShot2019-11-07at9_04_53PM.png.93d450fcd4ebb204b9e3e9c2ab6d8d48.png

I'm impressed by the routing,  though Michel Desjoyeaux is already in a discussion on Twitter about the role of shore based routing in tri ocean racing 

gtrans (might miss sarcasm)

Picot: "I do not understand why we do not talk more about the routers on land multi races yet seen the key role they have in terms of perf / management of the crew (the teams talk about it from time to time but there is never anything on the shopping site, not even a name) :-/"

MD: "Well, it's not good to say that our valiant sailors do not manage everything! Besides, I never really understood why it's still allowed!"

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9 hours ago, stief said:

 

I'm impressed by the routing,  though Michel Desjoyeaux is already in a discussion on Twitter about the role of shore based routing in tri ocean racing 

 

Picot: "I do not understand why we do not talk more about the routers on land multi races yet seen the key role they have in terms of perf / management of the crew (the teams talk about it from time to time but there is never anything on the shopping site, not even a name) :-/"

MD: "Well, it's not good to say that our valiant sailors do not manage everything! Besides, I never really understood why it's still allowed!"

I think with the big tri's the risks of getting in the wrong place at the wrong time are too large so routers make sense for safety when solo.  Maybe not so much in two handed.  But it doesn't matter so much in a 32/23 only event like the Brest Atlantiques.  Everyone gets routing.

The problem I have with it is in mixed fleets like the TJV.  Multi 50's get land based routing, the rest don't but the performance gap between Multi 50 and IMOCA isn't that great these days so some faster IMOCA can get some 'second opinions' by watching the Multi 50 tactics.  Apivia have said they did just that on their doldrums crossing.  Maybe you could say Charal might have done the same but they were at that point around 100 nm in front of Apivia so had less opportunity.

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8 hours ago, Varan said:

20191107_210219.thumb.jpg.a1f469315e9d33142022c2b6cb11c08a.jpg

Once again he proves what a truly amazing sailor he is.  Looking forward to the get step on this journey.

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At first I thought this was just the shore crew prepping the boat for the Thursday start, but this crewed leg was planned

Quote

A short-handed, experienced crew, which works well

Once again aiming for a convivial voyage, Francis has called upon the services of the boat's faithful friends as his crew. "Our Boat Captain, Bertrand Delesne, who has worked hard over the past few months on the boat, is quite naturally going to be with us," explained Francis.

"We'll have the same crew on board that did the delivery trip last year on the way back from the Route du Rhum race, with Christophe Houdet, who cannot remember whether he has crossed the Atlantic sixty or seventy times... Antoine Blouet, who has been preparing the boat for some time now and knows her well, and then there is my son, Corentin, who also knows the boat like the back of his hand."

So, there will be five men to sail the giant vessel, "the wild one," as they affectionately call the IDEC Sport trimaran. "You can understand by looking at the preparation what makes this IDEC Sport Asian Tour so difficult and such a challenge," explained Francis. "When we left Brittany, I brought with me everything we will need to sail with a crew, beacons, bunks... even the tender which was carefully stowed aboard during the voyage to Mauritius."

https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/224239/Joyon-to-tackle-Leg-2-of-IDEC-Sport-Asian-Tour?source=twitter

A bit odd the Agence Media team gave the news to Y&Y without posting the news on the  IDEC site first. ;) 

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Getting back to the development subject, it will be very interesting to hear if any notable changes are incorporated into the new Banque Pop or Macif boats due to the experiences of the Brest Atlantic race.  Sounds like Armel may be hinting to it....

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4 hours ago, GauchoGreg said:

Getting back to the development subject, it will be very interesting to hear if any notable changes are incorporated into the new Banque Pop or Macif boats due to the experiences of the Brest Atlantic race.  Sounds like Armel may be hinting to it....

 

I would think that both new boats will be considerably stronger in key areas around the bows, cross beams and the rudders and foils. Probably quite a bit heavier as a result. Will be an interesting situation to play off strength and weight and foiling characteristics. But it seems to me that strength is the only real option.

BP will not want to risk losing another boat and probably none of them can get insurance any more either after the RDR. 

The way they are going currently a non stop crewed around the world race at the end of 2021 seems pretty optimistic. The end of 2021 also does not allow much time for BP and Macif to get sorted since they are expected to launch that spring. If it goes ahead Gitana should still have the advantage for that race and whoever buys the current Macif could be in a good place as well. 

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1 hour ago, jb5 said:

 

I would think that both new boats will be considerably stronger in key areas around the bows, cross beams and the rudders and foils. Probably quite a bit heavier as a result. Will be an interesting situation to play off strength and weight and foiling characteristics. But it seems to me that strength is the only real option.

BP will not want to risk losing another boat and probably none of them can get insurance any more either after the RDR. 

The way they are going currently a non stop crewed around the world race at the end of 2021 seems pretty optimistic. The end of 2021 also does not allow much time for BP and Macif to get sorted since they are expected to launch that spring. If it goes ahead Gitana should still have the advantage for that race and whoever buys the current Macif could be in a good place as well

jb5, you seem to be in the know...

So do you know who will get the current MACIF??? 

What is Sebastien Josse doing nowadays? Since he has been kicked out of the Gitana team, the poor guy has not been much seen in the circuit, has he? He is still super talented; I wonder why he got kicked out in the first place...

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^ Maybe Sebastien was a reluctant participant in the new de Rothschild 'collaboration' approach with the four other founder owners, Sodebo, Macif, Actual and Banque Populaire?

In any case, a parting of the ways, after something like 8 years.

 

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I think sebastien Josse sign a non disclosure agreement NDI with the Rothschild owner, so no talk.  
My very own thought about his departure :  He fight for automatic foils control assistance inclusion (they already have one working) but  Ultim Class have forbidden it. As he is a Security and Safe guy oriented due to accident during his career he push for not joining Ultim class but focusing only on RTW Record. The time Ultim Class accept automatic foil incidence control system.   But that process doesn’t feet at all with Rothschild family vision and marketing needs.

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5 hours ago, Laurent said:

jb5, you seem to be in the know...

So do you know who will get the current MACIF??? 

What is Sebastien Josse doing nowadays? Since he has been kicked out of the Gitana team, the poor guy has not been much seen in the circuit, has he? He is still super talented; I wonder why he got kicked out in the first place...

Expect a lot he will come back soon if I was Billionaire, I will buy him new Ultim and new team.

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5 hours ago, Laurent said:

jb5, you seem to be in the know...

So do you know who will get the current MACIF??? 

What is Sebastien Josse doing nowadays? Since he has been kicked out of the Gitana team, the poor guy has not been much seen in the circuit, has he? He is still super talented; I wonder why he got kicked out in the first place...

Pascal Bidégorry is candidating for actual Ultim Macif.

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8 minutes ago, oceanwwgg said:

I think sebastien Josse sign a non disclosure agreement NDI with the Rothschild owner, so no talk.  
My very own thought about his departure :  He fight for automatic foils control assistance inclusion (they already have one working) but  Ultim Class have forbidden it. As he is a Security and Safe guy oriented due to accident during his career he push for not joining Ultim class but focusing only on RTW Record. The time Ultim Class accept automatic foil incidence control system.   But that process doesn’t feet at all with Rothschild family vision and marketing needs.

fit (not feet) maybe.

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1 hour ago, oceanwwgg said:

I think sebastien Josse sign a non disclosure agreement NDI with the Rothschild owner, so no talk.  
My very own thought about his departure :  He fight for automatic foils control assistance inclusion (they already have one working) but  Ultim Class have forbidden it. As he is a Security and Safe guy oriented due to accident during his career he push for not joining Ultim class but focusing only on RTW Record. The time Ultim Class accept automatic foil incidence control system.   But that process doesn’t feet at all with Rothschild family vision and marketing needs.

Plausible.

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8 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

^ Maybe Sebastien was a reluctant participant in the new de Rothschild 'collaboration' approach with the four other founder owners, Sodebo, Macif, Actual and Banque Populaire?

In any case, a parting of the ways, after something like 8 years.

 

Maybe 8 years is just getting to be too long in some cases? The only reference I've seen of Sebastien since his Gitana exit is that he is a consultant to the Race Director of Brest Atlantiques.  He has written a couple of short articles on the race which were on the main race site.  It would be very interesting to find out why he left Gitana.  Gitana lost the services of a great sailor in my view.

Reluctant participant could be right.  When Gitana was being built it was originally to be longer than the 32 rule in 32/23 class, they later changed and shortened the plan.  I don't recall the original plan length, maybe 34m?  Some of that was possibly due to timing with 32/23 just getting started at that point. Gitana is also the one team that implemented active foil controls, which are currently banned in 32/23.  Maybe some of that played into the split somehow, or not?

Who gets the current Macif in 2021.... I would think Sebastien would be an awesome choice and so would others including Vincent Riou,  Pascal Bidégorry and, in my view, an even better option,  Gwénolé Gahinet, who is currently on Macif (right place at the right time?) and with a lot of really great experience from IDEC Sport etc.

All good fun to watch.

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On 11/19/2019 at 6:32 PM, stief said:

At first I thought this was just the shore crew prepping the boat for the Thursday start, but this crewed leg was planned

https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/224239/Joyon-to-tackle-Leg-2-of-IDEC-Sport-Asian-Tour?source=twitter

A bit odd the Agence Media team gave the news to Y&Y without posting the news on the  IDEC site first. ;) 

Underway and currently doing 3 knots (drifting).  Maybe they should have waited.  Tomorrow looks better.

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30 minutes ago, QBF said:

Spindrift 2 is back in La Trinité sur Mer.

 

https://www.scanvoile.com/2019/11/yann-guichard-spindrift-record-trimaran-ultime-trophee-jules-verne-tour-monde-equipage.html#.Xdfc6u3Yo3E

Back on standby next week until mid December so less than a month.


Since October 29th the whole Spindrift team has been working 100% to the repair of the rudders due to problem detected during training. The repair is now complete and Yann Guichard and his crew will resume their standby early next week, waiting for a weather window to start on a third attempt Jules Verne Trophy.
"For the last 3 weeks we have focused on finding solutions and then making the repairs. We are now ready to leave and our eyes are on the weather. We are extending our stand-by until mid-December, " explains Yann Guichard, skipper of Spindrift 2.

Goal for the twelve men is to better 40 days 23 hours 30 minutes established by Francis Joyon.

"We would like to have a bit of a head start by the Indian Ocean ... Francis Joyon had crossed the Indian Ocean in record time and it will be difficult to do better," said Yann Guichard.


CREW OF SPINDRIFT 2:
Yann Guichard
Erwan Israel
Jacques Guichard
Jackson Bouttell
Thierry Chabagny
Grégory Gendron
Xavier Revil
Corentin Horeau
François Morvan
Duncan Späth
Erwan Le Roux
Benjamin Schwartz

Jean-Yves Bernot (router)

Source: V.Bouchet
 

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a bit from Yann Guichard about Spindrift's chances  in today's Tip and Shaft

Quote

Do you think that for Spindrift 2 , is the year or never to win the Jules Verne Trophy? 
I do not know if it's the year or never. This will be our third real attempt, if we remove the dismasting before cutting the line (January 2018) , and most of the challengers have waited the third time to break the record , except Loïck (Peyron, on Spindrift 2, then Banque Populaire V) and his brother (Bruno) who did it the first time. It's still a difficult record to pick up, but what makes us feel good is that last year we were out of the Indian in Idec times having had a less favorable Indian, that means that the boat has the potential to break the record. 

Are not you afraid that if you do not succeed this year, the last Ultim, some of whom should start next year, be better equipped to do it? 
It is clear that under certain conditions where they can fly, below 22-23 knots of wind with an acceptable sea, they go 4 knots faster than us . Now it's an endurance race, you can see it on Brest Atlantiques , you also have to be lucky and not touch anything. And in the conditions we had last year, they would not have gone faster than us . If we do not have the opportunity to leave this year or not the chance to break the record, it could be nice not to be alone on the starting line next year, the boats are very different, it could be A nice story. 

They interest you, these flying boats? 
Yes, it's interesting, because the flight is in tune with the times and is at the forefront of technology. Now, we are not part of this class, we are on a boat of records, which is not made to be conducted in a reduced crew, even if I did the Route du Rhum with. We would be happy to participate in races with them , but we do not want to be limited in number of crew, because it does not make sense on a boat like ours. They have Ultims that were designed to sail alone, so if they are six on board, they are 100% of the potential of the boat, whereas we, if we sail to six, we are not 100% because Spindrift is 23 tons against 14, with a turnaround time of 250 tons / meter, against 150. So it takes the world to tuck the sails, it is not more complicated than that. 

Spindrift is 23 meters wide, like the Ultims, would it be possible to make an Ultim by reducing the length from 40 to 32 meters? 
No, it would remain very heavy . When you see our freeboard height compared to the new Sodebo in the port of La Trinité, we double! The weight would stay there, and in multihulls, it's the nerve of war to fly. I think the boat would even be performing better than Actual . 
 

 

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52 minutes ago, stief said:

a bit from Yann Guichard about Spindrift's chances  in today's Tip and Shaft

 

Pretty much need to place two bets on these guys. Will they actually go and if they do, will they break the record.  I'm leaning towards yes and no but with only a few weeks to go it could very easily become a nonstarter.  They should take the Francis approach and just try to make it happen.  Once the 32/23's start to try these records I think Spindrift will be done.

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22 minutes ago, jb5 said:

Pretty much need to place two bets on these guys. Will they actually go and if they do, will they break the record.  I'm leaning towards yes and no but with only a few weeks to go it could very easily become a nonstarter.  They should take the Francis approach and just try to make it happen.  Once the 32/23's start to try these records I think Spindrift will be done.

Sounds like Guichard agrees this is Spindrift's last chance to levitate the JV trophy. Later in the article he talks about attempting the Atlantic record next year:

Quote

You talk about leaving again next year, does that mean that you intend to keep the boat? There is no sale in sight? 
The program in 2020 will necessarily be different depending on whether the record is broken or not. Now, we have the "flexibility" of not having a sponsor who guides us in our sporting trajectory, it is a shipowner project that allows us to choose the challenges we want to take up.The goal today is to continue to sail the boat next year . There is a record that fascinates me and that I really want to try at least once, it is the one of the Atlantic (owned by this boat, then Banque Populaire V, in 3 days 15 hours) , it is It's hard to pick up, but I think we can save a few hours. 

Too, next year the Ultimes will have worked through the teething pains of the Brest tour, and will be better prepared for the JVT

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7 minutes ago, stief said:

Sounds like Guichard agrees this is Spindrift's last chance to levitate the JV trophy. Later in the article he talks about attempting the Atlantic record next year:

Too, next year the Ultimes will have worked through the teething pains of the Brest tour, and will be better prepared for the JVT

Yes... they have been on standby for that Atlantic record at least twice, maybe three times.  I've lost count. BP set a very high mark with that record in 07 also setting the crewed 24 hr in the process which also still stands.  Was amazing in 2007 seeing BP V, Groupama 3 and Sodebo 2 all lined up at the dock at Gateway Marina in Brooklyn and BP and Groupama heading off just a few hours apart.

Next year the 32/23's will likely be in the Transat again and so they would have a good opportunity to take a shot an Atlantic record as well, solo or crewed, when heading home.  IDEC Sport quickly followed by Sodebo both reset the solo record and Macif did the solo 24 hour record when all 3 were coming back to base in 2017 (after 'The Bridge' race I think).  That was of course the old Sodebo, now Actual Leader.

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The centre hull of the new Banque Pop XI leaving Fibre Mechanics in Lymington after 5 months of construction.  Bound for CDK in Lorient where the new Ultim will be assembled.

Image may contain: sky and outdoor

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On 12/16/2019 at 7:20 AM, Justaquickone said:

At least it's not loaded with coremat like we saw a couple of seasons ago . 

 BP from memory .

No it was Gitana during previous TJV :

foil+casse+gitana+17.png

Not sure it is coremat though

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On 12/18/2019 at 1:07 AM, Miles said:

The centre hull of the new Banque Pop XI leaving Fibre Mechanics in Lymington after 5 months of construction.  Bound for CDK in Lorient where the new Ultim will be assembled.

Image may contain: sky and outdoor

Nice to see Fibre Mechanics, who are essentially some of the old Green Marine crowd, doing well. Well done Geoff!

(RIP Green Marine)

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On 12/17/2019 at 3:22 PM, yl75 said:

No it was Gitana during previous TJV :

foil+casse+gitana+17.png

Not sure it is coremat though

After the race

foil gitana.jpg

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1 minute ago, Puntone said:

After the race

foil gitana.jpg

Thanks ! The one I was looking for :) could not find it ..

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It seems that unless you hit something, self destruction of the foils start from the trailing edge, rather than the leading edge. Out of curiosity, does anybody know why?

Is it due to cavitation?

Is it due to sustained very low pressures on the top side of the foil, even it there is no cavitation per say, peeling off the skin of the foil???

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The cavitation bubble is collapsing on the aft upper surface of the foil somewhere between the trailing edge and the mid chord of the foil. That erodes the surface rather quickly and the reason that super cavitating foils simple chop off the last third or so of the foil just forward a where the collapse impact would be. On propellors that is what is called a 'cleaver' blade and is a  very apt term.

image.jpeg.0b9a9c4f0890475439738265d6460a77.jpeg

 

Image result for super cavitating foils

 

 

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Thanks for the explanation Rasp. I thought it was something like that...

And I guess, for the Ultim foils, they have to work at those very high speeds (high Reynolds numbers), and therefore subjected to cavitation, but contrary to propeller blades, they ALSO have to work at much lower speed, when the wind is light. And by work, I mean generate enough lift to gain on overall boat drag, without losing all of that gain, and then some more, because the inherent drag of the foil is too much at low speed.

So what is an apt solution for high Reynolds numbers only foil (high speed propeller blade) is not necessarily a solution for what is supposed to be a foil with a much wider range of operation.

Talk about a design headache...

I am sure that they have looked at super hard metal sheeting on the aft extrados surface... but then it is brittle and prone to breakage, especially if put in tension; which it should not be in this area, right?

 

PS: in your graph above, it I understand well, the color scheme is the % of fluid in liquid form; right? Red is 100% liquid water. blue is 100% water vapor. Correct?

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Very interesting stuff.  The rate that they run through appendages is amazing and must cost the teams a fortune on top of fortune for everything else involved. The boats spend a month in a race then the next 3-4 months getting fixed up to go do it again.  Be interesting to see if this changes or improves with the Transat CIC next year. I think one of the teams, maybe Sodebo (?), was at some point suggesting these boats be taken on as the next VOR/TOR platform.  Some major advances in durability would be needed before that happens, as well as a much lower price tags.
 

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27 minutes ago, jb5 said:

 

I don't know how well the automatic translated subtitle works, if any, so for our English speaking friends, they explain that the transport from the UK was the two halves of the main hull; to Lorient where final assembly will take place.

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1 minute ago, Laurent said:

I don't know how well the automatic translated subtitle works, if any, so for our English speaking friends, they explain that the transport from the UK was the two halves of the main hull; to Lorient where final assembly will take place.

From the clips it also looks like the hull skin was transported in the mold. Makes sense as it keeps everything in alignment 

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On 12/19/2019 at 8:42 AM, Laurent said:

Thanks for the explanation Rasp. I thought it was something like that...

And I guess, for the Ultim foils, they have to work at those very high speeds (high Reynolds numbers), and therefore subjected to cavitation, but contrary to propeller blades, they ALSO have to work at much lower speed, when the wind is light. And by work, I mean generate enough lift to gain on overall boat drag, without losing all of that gain, and then some more, because the inherent drag of the foil is too much at low speed.

So what is an apt solution for high Reynolds numbers only foil (high speed propeller blade) is not necessarily a solution for what is supposed to be a foil with a much wider range of operation.

Talk about a design headache...

I am sure that they have looked at super hard metal sheeting on the aft extrados surface... but then it is brittle and prone to breakage, especially if put in tension; which it should not be in this area, right?

 

PS: in your graph above, it I understand well, the color scheme is the % of fluid in liquid form; right? Red is 100% liquid water. blue is 100% water vapor. Correct?

I forget where, but I think it was in the thread where Gitana had its first failures due to cavitation wear on the foils, but I think it came up where rubbery material actually held up better against cavitation than super hard materials.

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10 hours ago, GauchoGreg said:

I forget where, but I think it was in the thread where Gitana had its first failures due to cavitation wear on the foils, but I think it came up where rubbery material actually held up better against cavitation than super hard materials.

You are most likely right.  In my line of work, we design equipment to pump at high rate fluids carrying abrasive solids; erosion is the biggest challenge. We use either super hard metals or "rubbery" coatings. 

But here, I am afraid that rubbery coatings would be too draggy for a foil...

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18 hours ago, Laurent said:

I don't know how well the automatic translated subtitle works, if any, so for our English speaking friends, they explain that the transport from the UK was the two halves of the main hull; to Lorient where final assembly will take place.

Good translation .You're right . You understood well . 2 parts for the main hull ( I'm french )

 

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So is Laurent, even though he is in Houston.

He is our greatest French translator.

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Macif damage summary from the Brest Atlantiques.  Some pretty good pictures of some of the damage.  It is of course in French and is way too long to translate.  I looked at the auto subtitle translation feature and it seems okay, at times.

 

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22 hours ago, jb5 said:

Macif damage summary from the Brest Atlantiques.  Some pretty good pictures of some of the damage.  It is of course in French and is way too long to translate.  I looked at the auto subtitle translation feature and it seems okay, at times.

 

Interesting ! And at 3:58, one can see that the central spare rudder they got from BP had no foils. (They also say that they had to pass it as a "diplomatic suitcase" with help from the ambassy to avoid the custom delays).

Looking at that, if there was a rule such as "the media man can record and publish whatever he wants", the coverage would be quite different ...

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