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PeterHuston

Kiteboarders v ISAF

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Gotta love those kiteboarders for doing their own thing, and basically telling ISAF to shove it.

 

 

....it would be nice if it were as simple as that. :mellow:

 

 

Unfortunately, there's competing world associations for kiteboarding,,and competing world cup events ,etc.

 

Of course,one organization is sanctioned under whirrled sailing,,,the other is not.

 

I pity the kiters who've moved from the joy of freekiting and into the world of 'organized' sport <_<

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Some years ago the RYA pronounced that kitesurfing isn't sailing and is therefore outside its remit. Furthermore Sport England, which is the government body for sport here, recognises British Kitesports as the governing body for kitesurfing. Nothing to do with the RYA.

 

Quite what logic classes windsurfing as sailing but kitesurfing as something else eludes me but that's the position.

 

Meanwhile, apparently a Paraglider wing isn't a kite. Looks like a kite, operates like a kite, pilots spend hours learning to fly them with their feet planted on the ground but it isn't a kite because that has yet another governing body.

 

Nothing new I suppose. Spot the boats in this picture.

 

AC_BNM_GBR309_3.jpg

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Gotta love those kiteboarders for doing their own thing, and basically telling ISAF to shove it.

 

....it would be nice if it were as simple as that. :mellow:

 

 

Unfortunately, there's competing world associations for kiteboarding,,and competing world cup events ,etc.

 

Of course,one organization is sanctioned under whirrled sailing,,,the other is not.

 

I pity the kiters who've moved from the joy of freekiting and into the world of 'organized' sport <_<

I was a contest surfer for years and years- once I quit competition I actually started enjoying surfing-

 

I'm beginning to feel the same way towards top level sailing- I miss just going sailing with a few friends

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For around thirty years now, ISAF (now known as World Sailing) has had a peculiar rule. It's a rule that almost every other sporting organization long ago learned wasn't enforceable, but somehow, World Sailing didn't get the memo. And as The Ed reported yesterday, World Sailing is using this rule as a bludgeon to try to kill off a potential rival for control of kiteboarding - and the megamillions ready to flow the sport's way when the Olympic money faucet turns in in a few short years (or way sooner).

 

We are not opining on whether World Sailing is the proper governing body for kiteboarding. It may be the best possible option, and the kiters could be lucky to have them in command. But we sure don't remember a robust public debate about it, or a vote among the millions of kiting enthusiasts to submit to ISAF control over their competition rather than some other body. And we do remember the manner in which ISAF quietly snatched control of all things kiting in 2009 and immediately threatened independent kiting organizations. It was nasty, and wrong. And in some countries, we believe it is illegal at worst, and unenforceable at best.

 

We believe the IKFO can be the organization that finally invalidates ISAF World Sailing's absolute control over the word "World", and shines a light on the legally questionable and chaotic patchwork of regulations the sport's governing body uses to prevent a problem that doesn't exist. Easy for us to say - we're not volunteering to fund a legal challenge to World Sailing's threat to the IKFO. But it's definitely worth a few hours of investigation by a good lawyer if the IKFO is a real organization and not some kind of stunt.

 

Word War 19

At issue is World Sailing Regulation 19.14, which says a sailor's eligibility for all sailing events "may be suspended or revoked...for competing in a Prohibited Event' without ISAF approval, that 'uses the word "world" either in the title of the event or otherwise...'

In other words, if you go race in the 'Stand-Up-Paddleboard-With-Big-Sail World Cup', and World Sailing finds out, they claim they can prevent you from sailing in any event that uses the ISAF Racing Rules for two full years.

 

Now maybe they can in some countries. Hell, maybe they can in most countries. But as many other sports have found out, there's a chunk of the world where the government doesn't allow sporting bodies - especially those with government-granted monopolies like US Sailing or ISAF - to exclude competitors because they don't like their extracurricular activities. If you're talking about livelihoods, it gets even worse for World Sailing - try to explain to a US Court that you're preventing a sponsored kiteboarder from earning a living because he sailed a weekend event in some unrelated organization's 'World Cup.' If you can do that with a straight face, you need to talk to an American lawyer. Or ring Jim Capron, the President of US Sailing back when the organization got smacked around by Farrah Hall's legal team, blowing hundreds of thousands in legal fees and costs in their support of ISAF-written rules on eligibility. It's a slam dunk.

 

It's not that complicated:

It's not the World Cup, it's the FIFA World Cup.

It's not the Formula One World Championship, it's the FIA Formula One World Championship.

It's not the Skiing World Cup, it's the FIS Skiing World Cup.

It's not the Boxing World Championship, it's the WBA, WBC, WBO, IBA, IBC, IBO World Championship.

 

Does anyone really think these sports' governing bodies are less sophisticated than World Sailing? Maybe they have dumber lawyers or less creative rule writers? Major League Baseball can't even prevent foreign baseball leagues from using the words "World Series", but somehow World Sailing can control an even more general word? Why is this even a question anymore?

 

Answer: Because no one has challenged it. But a little pushback and the invalidation of the offending part of Regulation 19 would be a great thing for World Sailing in the long run. They could stop defending archaic ideas and focus on building their reputation and their brand, whatever it's called these days.

 

We say to IKFO: Get your wallets out, find yourself a hungry lawyer itching for a fight, and make some noise for kiteboarding just as the Olympics starts thinking about turning on the money faucet for a new discipline in sailing, or board sports, or whoever ends up owning the kites.

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.......ISAF changes its name and then attempts to own something they cannot to fix it. Ridiculous.

 

 

 

.......nice gig if you can get it :mellow:

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After what happened with the Olympics and the sewer, I think it is time to actually truly break away. But I know it won't happen.

 

 

 

...oh, maybe it will. Perhaps IFKO will get some legal advice from Clean.

 

 

 

 

 

....what could go wrong? :mellow::lol::lol:

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Gotta love those kiteboarders for doing their own thing, and basically telling ISAF to shove it.

 

For those of you who can't find the front page, especially if you want to see some hurt put on the assholes at ISAF, this could end up being a good one.

 

http://sailinganarchy.com/2016/02/02/idiots-on-parade/

 

 

 

They probably took a lesson from how IFDS was a quasi extension of ISAF (the Brits) and how the Brits bankrupted IFDS and now ISAF (World Sailing) has lost sailing from the Paralympics. Yea, the Brits fucked it all up.

 

Kite boarding better to do it right, rather than trust anyone else.

 

But Really, Sailing is on it's way out of the Olympics. If the LA 2024 (light air) Olympics does not save sailing, I predict sailing is............................OUTTAHERE, except for maybe 2 events, Kites and Cats.

LA 2024 better make big use of Hurricane Gulch for sailing.

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DQOTD to Peter H. :

 

Do we actually need these fuckheads, and by fuckheads I'm referring to the entire WS body? Who the fuck funds them? What would be the process by which WE (meaning competitive sailors) told them to fuck the hell off?

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DQOTD to Peter H. :

 

Do we actually need these fuckheads, and by fuckheads I'm referring to the entire WS body? Who the fuck funds them? What would be the process by which WE (meaning competitive sailors) told them to fuck the hell off?

 

 

I'd love to see the West Coast of the USA, Australia and NZ get together, only if the Aussies and NZ do away with the Queen bullshit. Then tell the North Atlantic Sailing Nations that we will use the same rules (only changed a bit), but because we can sail the year around, we are going to change a few things. Like time for more fun and some limits on spending $$$$$$ for the Olympics because sailing has no real corporate sponsors. I wonder how the IOC would read that?

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You guys have got this story all wrong. What you need to understand is that IFKO is not the recognised international federation for kiteboarding. That is the IKA. IFKO is a rival organisation trying to wrestle control of kiteboarding away from the recognised international body.

 

All international sports organisations need to be recognised by SportAccord, which was set up in 1967 by a group of 27 international sports federations as an umbrella organisation for all international sports federations. Check it out, but suffice to say that every sport I can think of has its international federation recognised by SportAccord. It is not some joke organisation but the true guardian of international sports federations. To get recognised is a rigorous process that is designed to protect international sports federations. Kiteboarding has a SportAccord recognised international federation - the International Kiteboard Association. The IFKO is trying to muscle in to control the sport and does not have recognition from SportsAccord.

 

To put this into perspective further, the IFKO doesn't list any member national organisations, because nobody has registered with them, The IKA has many national federations as members.

 

This is not WS trying to do over kiteboarders. Kiteboarderts are already well represented by the IKA. This is WS supporting IKA against an illegitimate organisation trying to hijack kiteboarding.

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This is not WS trying to do over kiteboarders. Kiteboarderts are already well represented by the IKA.

 

There are more than a few kiteboarders who disagree, obviously. You don't think the way the IKA slid under ISAF's umbrella was suspicious?

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You guys have got this story all wrong. What you need to understand is that IFKO is not the recognised international federation for kiteboarding. That is the IKA. IFKO is a rival organisation trying to wrestle control of kiteboarding away from the recognised international body.

 

All international sports organisations need to be recognised by SportAccord, which was set up in 1967 by a group of 27 international sports federations as an umbrella organisation for all international sports federations. Check it out, but suffice to say that every sport I can think of has its international federation recognised by SportAccord. It is not some joke organisation but the true guardian of international sports federations. To get recognised is a rigorous process that is designed to protect international sports federations. Kiteboarding has a SportAccord recognised international federation - the International Kiteboard Association. The IFKO is trying to muscle in to control the sport and does not have recognition from SportsAccord.

 

To put this into perspective further, the IFKO doesn't list any member national organisations, because nobody has registered with them, The IKA has many national federations as members.

 

This is not WS trying to do over kiteboarders. Kiteboarderts are already well represented by the IKA. This is WS supporting IKA against an illegitimate organisation trying to hijack kiteboarding.

 

 

 

....really? you're kidding me. I had no idea :mellow:

 

 

 

 

Gotta love those kiteboarders for doing their own thing, and basically telling ISAF to shove it.

 

 

....it would be nice if it were as simple as that. :mellow:

 

 

Unfortunately, there's competing world associations for kiteboarding,,and competing world cup events ,etc.

 

Of course,one organization is sanctioned under whirrled sailing,,,the other is not.

 

I pity the kiters who've moved from the joy of freekiting and into the world of 'organized' sport <_<

 

 

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DQOTD to Peter H. :

 

Do we actually need these fuckheads, and by fuckheads I'm referring to the entire WS body? Who the fuck funds them? What would be the process by which WE (meaning competitive sailors) told them to fuck the hell off?

 

Who funds WS is easiest - mostly the IOC through TV money (NBC...who is the sailing commentator for NBC? Who is a VP of WS? Follow the money to why WS never said anything negative about Rio). Some sponsorship and fees from MNAs and classes.

 

What WS has done is assume control of the sport through their designation as the sports representative to the Summer Olympics, then the rules. A lot of people believe the rules are in the public domain, but ISAF has assumed a copyright that has never been challenged.

 

Then that control flows to the MNA and classes.

 

So, if you want to be in the Olympics, you have to play by WS rules, process and procedures. That said, those vary greatly from country to country - it is why as Clean mentioned Farrah Hall kicked the crap out of US Sailing and Charlie Cook. ISAF, specifically then Secretary General Jerome Pels tried to help Charlie screw Farrah. He lost. In another country, what US Sailing to Farrah probably would fly.

 

But for the rest of us? It then boils down to insurance for the most part and other certifications that are tied to all this. Essentially, a quasi-governmental regulatory body. Glenn McCarthy is best positioned to talk about the whole insurance aspect of this - his father invented the club insurance program for USYRU. There's an interesting story about how US Sailing tried to get the McCarthy's to give them a whack of sponsorship, but Gene said he didn't see the value and all it would do is raise premiums, so he told them to fuck off, and they told him to fuck off, and gave the contract to others. Gene McCarthy was, and is, a stand up guy for the sport. He said it best when USYRU changed their name - they are no longer an association, but now a corporation.

 

There's a lot of people in the US and around the world that volunteer their time for the betterment of the sport. Whatever problems WS and US Sailing have is largely not of the making of these people. The consistency of the rules and (some) of the training of race officers, judges ect is of value. The majority of that is really member to member - but stick a US Sailing or WS staff person in-between with some sort of quasi licensing thing and fees...yeah...that doesn't help anything, except those being paid for that stuff.

 

Can there be a successful revolt to something else? I think the revolt has been well under way for a long long time.

 

People voted with their feet and left the game.

 

How to change all this - I really don't know, absent someone having probably $10 million to seed the change and help sustain it.

 

What on earth would be so wrong with another entity that promoted fun and racing at the same time? Is WS going to collapse if there is another entity helping to run and promote the sport? If it does, will the world stop spinning on its access? Will giant black holes open up in the universe? if this were a spelling bee, neither WS or US Sailing could spell "fun" if you spotted them the F and U.

 

I am of the opinion for the vast majority of sailing that happens in the world, WS is completely unnecessary, and counter productive. Same with US Failing.

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You guys have got this story all wrong. What you need to understand is that IFKO is not the recognised international federation for kiteboarding. That is the IKA. IFKO is a rival organisation trying to wrestle control of kiteboarding away from the recognised international body.

 

All international sports organisations need to be recognised by SportAccord, which was set up in 1967 by a group of 27 international sports federations as an umbrella organisation for all international sports federations. Check it out, but suffice to say that every sport I can think of has its international federation recognised by SportAccord. It is not some joke organisation but the true guardian of international sports federations. To get recognised is a rigorous process that is designed to protect international sports federations. Kiteboarding has a SportAccord recognised international federation - the International Kiteboard Association. The IFKO is trying to muscle in to control the sport and does not have recognition from SportsAccord.

 

To put this into perspective further, the IFKO doesn't list any member national organisations, because nobody has registered with them, The IKA has many national federations as members.

 

This is not WS trying to do over kiteboarders. Kiteboarderts are already well represented by the IKA. This is WS supporting IKA against an illegitimate organisation trying to hijack kiteboarding.

 

Yup, WS sure is pure as the driven snow. Awesome track record they have lately. Gotta love the coverup that Atkins did for himself in Malaysia.

 

What's so wrong with another group of Kiteboarders trying to be a governing body?

 

You can trust WS, they won't cum in your mouth.

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You guys have got this story all wrong. What you need to understand is that IFKO is not the recognised international federation for kiteboarding. That is the IKA. IFKO is a rival organisation trying to wrestle control of kiteboarding away from the recognised international body.

 

All international sports organisations need to be recognised by SportAccord, which was set up in 1967 by a group of 27 international sports federations as an umbrella organisation for all international sports federations. Check it out, but suffice to say that every sport I can think of has its international federation recognised by SportAccord. It is not some joke organisation but the true guardian of international sports federations. To get recognised is a rigorous process that is designed to protect international sports federations. Kiteboarding has a SportAccord recognised international federation - the International Kiteboard Association. The IFKO is trying to muscle in to control the sport and does not have recognition from SportsAccord.

 

To put this into perspective further, the IFKO doesn't list any member national organisations, because nobody has registered with them, The IKA has many national federations as members.

 

This is not WS trying to do over kiteboarders. Kiteboarderts are already well represented by the IKA. This is WS supporting IKA against an illegitimate organisation trying to hijack kiteboarding.

 

Yup, WS sure is pure as the driven snow. Awesome track record they have lately. Gotta love the coverup that Atkins did for himself in Malaysia.

 

What's so wrong with another group of Kiteboarders trying to be a governing body?

 

You can trust WS, they won't cum in your mouth.

 

You seem to miss the point. This is really a battle between IKA and IFKO. Forget your ongoing thing with WS for a moment and consider what is really going on here.

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Rowing went through a dust-up in the 90s. A new organisation called the Master's Rowing Association was formed that competed with USRowing because the latter--surprise-surprise--only cared about Olympic elites.

 

I haven't paid attention in over a decade--to that aspect. Not sure what came of it all.

Maybe sailing needs "Masters" Sailing in the way that other sports do? AFIK and FWIW, in the US, US Masters Swimming and USA Swimming get along pretty well and serve the different needs of their athletes pretty well.

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There are more than a few kiteboarders who disagree, obviously. You don't think the way the IKA slid under ISAF's umbrella was suspicious?

Is it obvious? Take a swing by http://www.ifkitesports.org/membership.html and tell us which national organisations have signed up to the IFKO. As far as I can see, it's secret.

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There are more than a few kiteboarders who disagree, obviously. You don't think the way the IKA slid under ISAF's umbrella was suspicious?

Is it obvious? Take a swing by http://www.ifkitesports.org/membership.html and tell us which national organisations have signed up to the IFKO. As far as I can see, it's secret.

 

 

You do not understand. It's SUSPICIOUS

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You guys have got this story all wrong. What you need to understand is that IFKO is not the recognised international federation for kiteboarding. That is the IKA. IFKO is a rival organisation trying to wrestle control of kiteboarding away from the recognised international body.

 

All international sports organisations need to be recognised by SportAccord, which was set up in 1967 by a group of 27 international sports federations as an umbrella organisation for all international sports federations. Check it out, but suffice to say that every sport I can think of has its international federation recognised by SportAccord. It is not some joke organisation but the true guardian of international sports federations. To get recognised is a rigorous process that is designed to protect international sports federations. Kiteboarding has a SportAccord recognised international federation - the International Kiteboard Association. The IFKO is trying to muscle in to control the sport and does not have recognition from SportsAccord.

 

To put this into perspective further, the IFKO doesn't list any member national organisations, because nobody has registered with them, The IKA has many national federations as members.

 

This is not WS trying to do over kiteboarders. Kiteboarderts are already well represented by the IKA. This is WS supporting IKA against an illegitimate organisation trying to hijack kiteboarding.

 

Yup, WS sure is pure as the driven snow. Awesome track record they have lately. Gotta love the coverup that Atkins did for himself in Malaysia.

 

What's so wrong with another group of Kiteboarders trying to be a governing body?

 

You can trust WS, they won't cum in your mouth.

 

You seem to miss the point. This is really a battle between IKA and IFKO. Forget your ongoing thing with WS for a moment and consider what is really going on here.

 

 

What's going on is that IKA made a deal with the devil back in 2010, and ISAF was happy to help them claim 'victory' despite the reality that IKA only represented a small part of kiters. 5 years later, another group of kiters says 'IKA doesn't represent us, we are not part of sailing', and ISAF uses a ridiculous argument and an unenforceable rule to try to ban them from competing? How many times before you figure out the scam?

 

http://www.surfertoday.com/kiteboarding/2844-pkra-and-kpwt-a-battle-dividing-world-kiteboarding

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From October:

 

The kiteboarding war between the Virgin Kitesurf World Championships (VKWC) and the International Kiteboarding Association (IKA) continues, as the International Sailing Federation (ISAF) grants the newly-created Professional Kiteboarding Tour (PKT) a Special Event status. Confused?

ISAF is not helping the sport of kiteboarding. The confusing new format designed by the world governing body for the sport of sailing determines that IKA may crown single-event champions in the following disciplines and classes:

IKA Formula Kite: Slalom Open - Perth, Australia (29 November - 4 December 2016)
IKA Open: Freestyle Men and Women - Perth, Australia (29 November - 4 December 2016)
IKA TTR: Big Air Men and Women - Perth, Australia (29 November - 4 December 2016)
IKA Open: Wave Open - Sal, Cabo Verde (12-18 December 2016)
IKA Formula Kite (Racing Men and Women) World Championships - Qatar (1-5 June 2016)

However, ISAF has simultaneously authorized a World Tour under the PKT, the new insignia run by Richard Branson and the VKWC. The PKT will crown champions in Freestyle, Big Air, Wave and Slalom.

"We are glad to leave the chapter with IKA and the resulting confusion behind us and look forward to developing the future of the sport together with all stakeholders," the VKWC tells in a statement.

"IKA has no further jurisdictional power over the PKT World Tour which it is looking at a fascinating 2016 season with the traditional tour stops alongside new events. The PKT wishes the IKA success for these single events."

However, the VKWC leaves an open door to a future agreement. "For the future and development of the sport, the PKT is always open to discussing a possible cooperation between the PKT World Tour and the single World Championship events managed by the IKA."

How will riders behave? Will they stick to the PKT World Tour schedule, or will they focus on the single-event championships. The future of competitive and professional kiteboarding is as dark as ever, even if ISAF tries to facsimile surfing's ISA/WSL model.

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In an exclusive interview with SurferToday.com, the president of the International Kiteboarding Association (IKA) explains what went wrong with the Virgin Kitesurf World Championships (VKWC), and how things will play for the sport from 2016 on.

Mirco Babini reveals that the riders and judges competing in the VKWC were not being paid, and explains why should governing bodies for sports crown world champions.

1. Why exactly has IKA decided not to re-sign the contract with the PKRA/VKWC?

We offered a new contract to PKRA/VKWC in May 2015; all was in place, and they decided not to sign the contract with IKA.

2. How would you analyze the relationship between the VKWC and riders, brands, and fans?

Fans are quite happy because of the name of Virgin and Richard Branson and because it looks like there's a lot of money coming into the sport, but that is only how it looks from the outside. We hear that riders are not paid their prize money, we hear from judges that they don't get paid wages and travel expenses, and we hear about a lot of problems on rules, judging, and format, as well as conflicts of interest between judges, sponsors, and Tour owners.

3. What will IKA keep and what will you change regarding the 2016 world tour?

There have been a couple of good ideas in 2015, like smaller judging area and one rider at the time being judged. We will improve the rules and judging, bring back live scoring and, whenever technically possible, live streaming. The riders will get their voice back on the development of format and sport. Everything will be run by a professional team and in a professional way.

4. Isn’t IKA putting too much hype on freestyle, and leaving the remaining disciplines in the shadow?

IKA is listening to what the top riders are pushing for. Freestyle is and remains the core of the expression disciplines, but we're supporting and developing other disciplines to become stronger. We're able to manage and develop all the disciplines in the right way.

5. Do you believe that a governing body should crown professional champions? The World Surf League, the PWA World Tour, and the APB Tour are independent organizations.

All those organizations that you mention have contracts or agreements with the world governing bodies. Secondly, in the really big sports like soccer, they have the world champions crowned directly by the world governing body and not by tour operators.

6. Will a new entity take over professional kiteboarding from 2017 on?

Only IKA, who has the sole right to deliver the world championships in kiteboarding, can contract a new world tour organizer/promoter.

7. How would you describe IKA’s relationship with Richard Branson, a man who fought for the Olympic cause?

First of all, I would really love to have the chance to personally meet him directly. IKA never talked directly with Sir Richard Branson. Maybe if we did meet, everything would have been different. Who knows!

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despite the reality that IKA only represented a small part of kiters.

Quite possibly, since competition is a tiny part of kitesurfing. On the other hand, where's the evidence that IFKO represents more? Why does a body whose membership is supposed to be national and international bodies (not individuals) apparently not claim one single member?

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ISAF had a "world championship" in Malaysia that wasnt a world championship which proves they dont really know what the word means or they are happy to use it when it means nothing.

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Has anyone asked Sailing World magazine how they feel about World Sailing adopting such a simlar name?

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Sounds like a mess. They should focus on organizing world championships and qualifiers for those disciplines that might make it to the Olympics. Help grass root movements spread the sport to new areas. Start an anti doping program. Raise funding for the aforementioned activities. Focus on continuity.

 

Let professional tours and organizations figure out a model for the small, new, extreme and expensive disciplines.

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Has anyone asked Sailing World magazine how they feel about World Sailing adopting such a simlar name?

 

Doesn't the term "World Sailing Sailing World Championships" just flow so well?

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Has anyone asked Sailing World magazine how they feel about World Sailing adopting such a simlar name?

 

Doesn't the term "World Sailing Sailing World Championships" just flow so well?

 

 

Also makes searching for information nearly impossible, because the commonness of the word "World" blows out any hope of identification as "World Sailing". Also gives Sailing World some free publicity.

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Having read most of this shit, trying not to vomit

I am a potential sponsor

I'm not Coke or Adidas, willing to sponsor local, young ppl, but don't expect to make a living off me

Bring the concept and we will look at it

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The problem with sailing is that it's really hard to get kids into the sport given the costs associated with it. Even really good community sailing programs charge more than youth soccer or even a gear-intensive sport like hockey.

 

I think kiting has the potential to change that for sailing. All you need is a safe access-point on a beach and about $1200 of gear. Getting a young kid into kiting is not expensive if you know what you're looking for and have a program in mind for how you're going to teach them; clubs that lease kid-friendly intro gear on a contract basis with manufacturers would be a great starting point. You could have "sailors" kiting all around the world for less than the entry price of a sunfish, only they'd have access to a multitude of disciplines and formats to prevent the kind of burnout or stagnation that I saw happen to a lot of my peers during college sailing. Kiting is surfing, flying, foiling, skiing, racing, jumping, boarding, karting, SUPing, etc. But everyone these days starts with an inflatable and a twin tip, that's entry level learning equipment. I know it takes a good stiff breeze to compete on a twin tip, but it's easy and it's a 6-continent discipline.

 

These international organizations are not providing an example for how we can get young people into the sport; there was a leaked Neil Pryde YOG2018 gear presentation that did a really good job showing how affordable this sport can be. If organizing bodies don't focus on that side of the sport, then none of this matters. The 20 and 30 something guys like myself that can afford whatever gear they want don't need to be "managed" by an international body. On the east coast of the US there has been a huge amount of effort from some really talented and dedicated people to help put together a series of events that work just fine without any mention of the IKA:

 

San Juan Foil Cup - https://www.facebook.com/events/708362145932160/permalink/729621520472889/

Charleston F2B Race - Slalom, Course, and Distance Racing April 8/9/10 www.fort2battery.com

2 locally organized races in Tampa in cooperation with some local brands and college coaches who donate their time

Shelter Island YC hosts a foil race in the summer

Greenhat Kiteboarding will likely host a race this summer in NJ

Martha's Vineyard had foiling last year, access may be an issue in 2016 but they ran a successful event in 2015 nevertheless

 

If an international governing body wanted to do something to help, they'd draw up a white paper about developing a grass roots youth program then corral all the manufacturers together to crate sponsorship programs for those movements to reduce their cost of entry. They'd be responsible for 2 or 3 big pro events per year they could call "Worlds" to demonstrate what our sport can do, but that would be about it. This a young sport that should focus on growth, not olympic medals (yet).

As far as the whole VKWC freestyle thing is concerned, let it be it's own thing. There isn't some coalition of Olympic cyclists trying to legislate how the X-Games runs BMX vert competition...why should foilboarders and freestyle kiters be any different?

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The problem with sailing is that it's really hard to get kids into the sport given the costs associated with it. Even really good community sailing programs charge more than youth soccer or even a gear-intensive sport like hockey.

Nope, not so much. Community youth sailing is FREE here in SF bay area depending on the family's income. I can imagine we're the only place where thats the case.

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Instead of getting into a pissing match with ISAF over use of the word "world" IKFO should "universe" instead.

Sailing Championships of the Earth.

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Soccer/badminton/tennis/hockey session last 1-2 hrs. How long are the kids down the sailing center for?

 

It's not hard to make the cost comparison at all.

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In theory sailing shouldn't have to be expensive. The problem is boats and equipment that don't last, which make it uninteresting to buy second hand and in some areas expensive yacht club fees.

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One can always tell folks who have never delt with sponsorships. As soon as you see a Coke major sponsored event, you instantly know that most said no cash for you and sugar inc have now branded for a 1/4 of the original asking prices!

 

Only if it is run by volunteers

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The problem with sailing is that it's really hard to get kids into the sport given the costs associated with it. Even really good community sailing programs charge more than youth soccer or even a gear-intensive sport like hockey.

Nope, not so much. Community youth sailing is FREE here in SF bay area depending on the family's income. I can imagine we're the only place where thats the case.

 

 

All research indicates it has nothing to do with the cost; the biggest impediment is the perception of exclusivity

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Unedited, from IKFO Director General (Sofia). Obviously, english is not her first language, but the argument is sound.

 

Hello Alan,

We liked a lot of your Word "Domination" article, you surely have courage to say the truths! You have a quite accurate perspective of facts!

We thank you your reference and interest in IFKO!

Yes, IFKO is a real and official organization!, legally registered on the Notary, on the Justice Ministry, with a number of registration. With sport statutes and all parameters created by the rules of the World of Sports under the direct guidelines of SportAccord!

Yes IFKO intends to give Kitesports its own self-determination as an independent Sport! We are kiteriders, we are not sailors or tennis players! We have our own culture, identity and our own athletes!

I will try to explain IFKO with legal facts and if you, in the end, still have any doubt about IFKO, just ask please:

MAIN IDEAS:

- This Ika statement, like any other in the past, is a Ika style move. With no legal authority for anything, but trying to make people believe and fake it when asking for IFKO legal position to create confusion to the community. IFKO simple applied like any other new Sport to a recognition at SportAccord. After SportAccord analysis of our process and legitimacy, decided to open a platform to start the recognition process. Now Isaf and Ika will have to deal with it and with what they had done in the past!

Why?
- 2012 ISAF AGM only registered "IKA Formula Kite "in a self-named Committee "Kiteboarding". All other 17 disciplines were unregistered and SportAccord recognized the legitimacy of IFKO to start the recognition of a new Sport and achieve the Full Membership with all those 17 disciplines.

IN DETAIL:

- IFKO does not recognize IKA authority anywhere or will engage bad vibe discussions with this private company;

- IFKO recognizes ISAF as the IF of the sport: Sailing;

- IFKO is the IF of the sport: Kitesports;

- Last AGM of ISAF was in 2012;

- Only IFs AGMs are official stages, so any decision taken, meetings or whatsoever taken in the middle are internal affairs (we do not have to respect it or even read it);

- ISAF legal reach of actions is written in 2012 AGM minutes, where the only discipline registered was "IKA-Formula-kite";

- IKA is an undefined structure of ISAF, not recognized by SportAccord or IOC;

- IKA company can only work under official decisions settled at last ISAF AGM 2012; saying different is fake and not legal.

- IKa and Isaf would complain with legitimacy if IFKO would be using sailing rules and/or making competitions of "IKA-FormulaKite". That is not the case.

- They can try even make Formula as Olympic, IFKO do not care about it. (will not happen in 2016 and not in 2020 : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Summer_Olympics) IFKO has 17 disciplines of Kitesports to develop.

MORE:

- "IKA", the legal figure "association" with the name "international kiteboarding association" does not exist, this name doesn't legally exist;

- IKA said in their "AGM" openly they are a private company in Gibraltar with the name "Kitesports ltd";

- Private companies have owners, and share holders, do not have "associates";

- Private companies are made for money self profits objectives and therefore will not have the Riders interests in a first objective. This explains well the motivation to this threats made to Riders and Judges and the Ika goals during years.

- We cannot find any legal contract between Ika and Isaf in the public minutes of Isaf. Is it secret? Who signed it? What does it says? Exist?

AND:

- IFKO will not use World Saling Rules, officials or whatsoever sailing stuff - that was something decontextualised and absurd said by new WS/Isaf CEO ;

- IFKO uses Kite rules, Kite directors, Kite identity dynamics, and our own sport identity to our competitions;

- IFKO does not ban Athletes that is blackmail, VERY wrong and ANTI-SPORT;

- SO IKA/ISAF IS BANNING ATHLETES OF COMPETITIONS THEY DO NOT HAVE LEGAL RIGHT TO ORGANIZE!

ABOUT IFKO:

- Our process of recognition of a new sport was accepted by SportAccord and now is opened to receive our reports to build it;

- IFKO just gets "recognition" after a proper stage of building (Worldchampionships, WADA compliance, youth anti-dopping seminars, actions of equality for women, actions for disabled Athletes...);

- It is supposed we organize Worldchampionships because SportAccord demands reports of it, to submit evaluation if are being properly organized by Olympic movement standards;

- We have guidelines to prepare the process already with standards to Kitesports be able of recognition by IOC.

RESUMING:

- IFKO will not officially answer Ika, IFKO has no bound to this private company;

- the letter to Isaf ceo is ready and there's the possibility to be public;

- Actually, if Isaf stands on this banning this will be a great argument of IFKO near SportAccord;

- We believe this is just to try to make "fear threaght", trying to Athletes in the moment of registration not do it, because they could have fear of procedures. This is just to spread fear, which is, by itself , totally unacceptable;

- Ika strategies to our community always were, are, and will be lies, fear, threat, blackmail and abuse... and the most incredible is that community is believing it for years. That is being stopped by IFKO. IFKO supports the end of secrets, the transparecy and decisions taken democratically between national associations.

It´s time to Ika prove with legal minutes/papers that; 1st -exists?, 2nd- have any authority in what?, 3rd- has legal connection/contract with Isaf, made when? Who signed it? What was signed for us all? Where are these papers that should be public documents? Are hidden or even exist?

Why during these 5 to 8 years the Kite community had no access to public documents decided by Ika?

Even more irregular: if Isaf bans Riders from other sport competitions, why is selling "special statutes" to others (and not only for WKT) to organize competitions??

Isaf seems to "sell" worldchampionships: to WKT, to Ika and someone told us there is a 3rd client soon. Amazing. (it does not matter if they are going to court with each other, important is to sell and fake the authority to sell it)
(By the way Isaf is also a private company and not a non-for-profit association, as SportAccord membership demands and demanded to IFKO).

All this is why the Portuguese and the French associations joined energies: to give Kitesports a fair chance inside Sport correct values to be regulated by itself and not to be submitted to this subversion and disorder that damage athletes and sport.

Kitesports wants to take the way Surf did, we all kiteriders should join in community and just follow the correct path other sports already did. IFKO is working against this sailing fake fear campaign that, even totally agreeing with IFKO, is keeping many national associations quiet and still.

Yes we have our wallet ready and a team of lawyers sport specialists. Waiting for the president decision.

Alan, if you have any other questions about Kitesports, please let me know,

Thanks
My best
Sofia

(link of IFKO president interview):

http://www.kitenews.fr/exclusive-interview-of-diogo-paes-fernandes-president-of-the-ifko/

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I'm a "member" of the International Kiteboarding Association (IKA) via the American Kiteboarding Association. My interest is in hydrofoil kiteboard racing, I care very little about freestyle (wakeboard style tricks), big air (jumps)or wave riding competition. I also have little interest left in the now, almost dead, Formula Kite racing class. As a racing class I think kite hydrofoils represent one of the most amazing vmg/$ spent classes, with a huge amount of development left to come both above and below the water. The class has only been seriously raced for a few years. For a few thousand dollars and a steep learning curve you can be the fastest VMG craft around a course excepting the AC classes. Unfortunately the IKA seems determined to take what they learnt from Formula Racing and send us backwards into a BS "Olympic" class.

Most of the current brouhaha is about the aforementioned non racing disciplines. Some history might help explain how we got to now. Kite racing, at least in San Francisco, really got going around 2007/8. People raced twin tip boards, surf boards and soon enough specialized race boards (I wasn't racing at this point but following along as much as possible). At some point Mirco Babini (ex Luna Rosa http://www.lunarossachallenge.com/en/team/29_Mirco-Babini) setup the IKA as the association for kite racing. Through some convoluted process kite racing was all of a sudden thrust into the spotlight when it briefly replaced windsurfing in the Olympics. That a class with such a brief history should become an Olympic discipline was clearly never going to be a good idea, and at some point the whole thing got sorted out. I assume it was at this point ISAF got involved and the IKA became single minded about getting kiting back into the Olympics, arguably to the detriment of the class. Olympics means a "level" playing field (tell that to the Israelis) so no development classes. This meant the IKA came up with a fairly arbitrary "Formula" board box rule for boards and fins, and then made some baffling decisions the riders hated about kite sizes allowed in regattas. Most of this under the auspices of Olympic ambition along with "cost control". Cost control seems odd in a racing class that's far cheaper than anything else out there in terms of performance, even on the "old" gear of a few years ago.

There was a little grumbling, but most kite racers come from more of a surfer dude temperament rather than a yacht club racer, so they let the IKA do there thing. The vast majority of us racer have zero Olympic ambition, we're happy to go out and buy some new gear each season to try and bump ourselves up a few mid pack positions on a Thursday night. If the IKA, which is/was effectively two guys in Europe sucking up to ISAF and the IOC, want to dick around with Formula rules then let them.

Around 2013 hydrofoil kiteboard started appearing at the StFYC Thursday night race series. Firstly underneath Brian Lake, and then towards the end of the season, leader of the pack, Johnny Heineken started using his to race too. Hydrofoils had been tried around the racecourse before. They were undoubtedly faster upwind, but suffered on the downwind legs. Especially when the board was upside down and the rider had been ejected 60 feet away from it at high speed. The newer hydrofoils were pointing deeper though, and the potential was obvious. It took us mid fleeters a while, but the writing was on the wall. By 2014 the forty five or so deep SF fleet was, almost over night, a foiling fleet. We'd always raced under Appendix F of the RRS, but Thursday nights were "run what you brung". And that wa it for Formula kiteboards. The rest of the kite racing world was doing the same thing. World Championships, run under Formula class rules (because we can never forget the Olympic ambition) suddenly dropped from over one hundred to thirty. Top rider had little interest in Formula boards when the could 'foil around the place and even they stopped traveling for those events.

The IKA now had a problem, their Olympic class was dying, riders had no interest in regulating hydrofoils after seeing the results of the Formula board experiment, so what were they to do? Go after the other disciplines? The Professional Kiteriders Association (PKRA, which had been around since at least 2001?) and the IKA had tried to get along. The PKRA had experimented with running course racing (at one stage making the prohibited list for not playing by the rules), and seemed to be reasonably successful at running slalom, alongside its Freestyle competitions. At some point there must have been an agreement between the two organizations because the PKRA had always crowned "World Champions" for freestyle and the IKA felt that their ISAF relationship gave them the rights to anything with that name that involved someone flying a kite while touching water. For reasons also unknown to me, the PKRA folded/sold to a new organization that became the Virgin Kitesurf World Championships (VKWC), a series of competitions that ended up crowning a World Champion in freestyle for men and women. At some point during the last season the IKA started asserting itself. For some, presumably, commercial reason there was an event added to the calendar that the IKA didn't approve of. This meant that when the VKWC tallied it's results for the year it came up with a different result to the IKA, who refused to recognize this rouge event as so denied the riders the result. The upshot of this was two sets of "World Champions". This seems a little incongruous, given the IKA's flexible calendar for its own course racing events. They often added point scoring events last minute, allowed new gear that wasn't supposed to be used for months, etc. At the end of the year Virgin sensibly got the hell out of dodge leaving the whole thing in limbo. Of course this open the door for a new set of organizations to start bickering over the details of what happens this year. The real losers end up being the rider, possibly the most under paid "extreme sport" professionals in the world.

There's more to write, so much more. Dragging us kicking and screaming into the corrupt and fetid world of the Olympics under the cry of, "think of the children!" seems to still be objective number one for the IKA. Coming after our beloved foilboard class, trying to twist it into the bastard love child of Formula kiteboards and the development class we want, seems to be the current form of attack. A minor coupe at the January AGM holds out some hope, the executive committee now contains new blood. But what that means remains to be seen.

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^interesting read. it reminds me a bit of the isf fis controversy when snowboarding was to be introduced into the olympics. It seems like that issue settled though (?) and if you want to go to the olympics, you just have to agree to do fis comps. Would be easier if it was WS vs IFKO, but now with IKO and all its partners involved and a discipline like formula with an uncertain future, it looks complicated. Hydrofoil is very cool but not sure if ready for olympics yet, as there is quite a lot of development going on still

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i hope WS gets knocked down a few pegs............fucking wankers

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Organizing bodies are a racket, they really provide you very little that you can't get from independent providers and, unless you have ambitions at the highest level (i.e. Olympics/World championships) are totally irrelevant. Example: Last year I started doing open water swimming and over the course of the year I did 3 races. the first race was under the auspices of US Masters Swimming, the 2nd was unaffiliated, and the third was under the auspices of USA Triathlon. For the first and 3rd I bought "1 day memberships" which are a great racket because they are just barely less than 1/2 a year's membership so if you only do a couple races it's worth your while but the org doesn't have to provide you with very much of anything. Of the three races the unaffilated one was the best in regards to cost and it was no less well organised than the others. This year I plan to do ~6 races: 3 USA Tri, 2 USMS, and 1 unaffiliated. If I had the choice I would stick with one over the other but USMS has a wider variety (pool races etc) and I have friends that want to do USMS races. For a casual person like me none of this matters: I'm not trying to qualify for sectionals or nationals and I don't do full on triathlons. I will probably get full year memberships for both as I'm doing enough races/meets to justify it but you can best be sure I'm avoiding doing any races organized by the third monster US Swimming (which is the Olympic org) which I'm sure doesn't recognize my USMS membership.

 

As far as benefits I suppose there is a magazine and some insurance at meets or training run by affiliated coaches but the amount is so negligible and my normal health coverage would cover that anyway. There really is no point for the majority of people. I'm sure all the running 5Ks don't worry about affiliation or do they? These people have us brainwashed into thinking they provide us with some tangible benefit when all it really seems to do is give a handful bunch of suits in Europe cushy full time jobs on the backs of a sea of volunteers. I have never been a US Sailing member and the only reason why most people join is because most race organisers require it. All this $#!+ comes about because we want to change our pastimes into "Sports" and make little bobby or Molly think they can World or Olympic champion when they grow up.

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^^^ Imperfect, sure. A racket, no. US Masters helps a lot of clubs access pools that would otherwise be closed to them because of liability insurance requirements. IIRC, most Masters swimmers don't go to meets but they do benefit from the insurance cover. Typically, the open water swim races around here are organized by private clubs but that may change. The amount of coverage that the local government is requiring and the cost of that cover are increasing. I am aware of one local open water race canceled this year because the insurance required by the government was no longer affordable by the club. Grouping together for purchasing or advocacy makes sense and provides value.

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Organizing bodies are a racket, they really provide you very little that you can't get from independent providers

 

A sport governing body is not a "provider". If you are swimming races, you are participating in a sport. Sports needs rules, rule enforcement processes, referees, referee training processes, relationships with international bodies, relationships with government. If you participate in sport but don't want to contribute to anything that goes into making it possible, you are just a freeloader.

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Organizing bodies are a racket, they really provide you very little that you can't get from independent providers

 

A sport governing body is not a "provider". If you are swimming races, you are participating in a sport. Sports needs rules, rule enforcement processes, referees, referee training processes, relationships with international bodies, relationships with government. If you participate in sport but don't want to contribute to anything that goes into making it possible, you are just a freeloader.

 

+100

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Organizing bodies are a racket, they really provide you very little that you can't get from independent providers

A sport governing body is not a "provider". If you are swimming races, you are participating in a sport. Sports needs rules, rule enforcement processes, referees, referee training processes, relationships with international bodies, relationships with government. If you participate in sport but don't want to contribute to anything that goes into making it possible, you are just a freeloader.

Not necessarily. Events need competitors. Some events actually know how to sell sponsorship. Those sponsors want eyeballs and attention. So just showing up has value for some sponsors.

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A sport governing body is not a "provider". If you are swimming races, you are participating in a sport. Sports needs rules, rule enforcement processes, referees, referee training processes, relationships with international bodies, relationships with government. If you participate in sport but don't want to contribute to anything that goes into making it possible, you are just a freeloader.

 

 

 

...I wish it were so simple. Unfortunately in the case of World Sailing, you have an organization that focuses on, and gets most of it's funds from the Olympic circus,, yet -pretends- to care about the 99% who have nothing to do with olympic stuff. :mellow:

 

As far as the rules,enforcement, training of officials,,,even courses raced ,,,,these tend to add nothing but complexity to the needs of your average weekend warrior. <_<

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It's a problem especially for smaller nations that most of the funding is channeled to Olympic sailing or juniors who are expected to sail in the olympics one day. I think more could be done to let young sailors try offshore and more adventurous type of sailing

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Soccer/badminton/tennis/hockey session last 1-2 hrs. How long are the kids down the sailing center for?

 

It's not hard to make the cost comparison at all.

Ha. Not really.

drive to the rink: 1 hr.

Practice + getting dressed /undressed 0.5 hr

drive home: 1 hr

 

3 times a week.

 

Weekend: 3 or 4 games. Avg drive 2 hrs *each way* plus 3 hrs of game/wamrup. dress etc

 

Not sure how sailing takes more time...

i don't know many mid week sail training sessions that last just 30 mins or a weekend regatta that would be done in 3hrs

 

Most of the 2 day sail training courses here little jonny will be down the club for 15hrs over a weekend.

 

Per hr that stacks up easily against other sports

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