• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Sign in to follow this  
Editor

what is it?

Recommended Posts

Hardly the first offshore proa Scot. I think you'll find that Dick Newick got there first with "Cheers" quite a few years ago (1967) and that's not counting the Polynesians who managed to populate the whole of the Sth Pacific Islands in them. She's now classed as a (sailing) heritage museum piece in France.

post-10158-0-97647300-1454554836_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Traditionally, yes, they sail with the small hull (called ama) to windward. This is the Polynesian way, also called the "flying proa" or the Pacific Proa.

You have to remember that those vessels were developed and used on island with very little usable timber: you had to make the best use of little wood available.

By having the small hull to windward, and playing with "movable ballast", i.e. the crew, you can have a very light and efficient structure. Also, having the small hull to windward means that you have a platform to hold your mast with shrouds. Actually, the triangle mast/beam/shroud in this configuration is a lightly loaded structure; the beam does not have to withstand the bending loads that a leeside beam sees on a trimaran, for instance; in the Pacific Proa case, it works (almost) only in compression.

 

Dick Newick, with Cheers, came up with a successful alternative; it finished 3rd in 1968 in one of the single handed across the Atlantic races. This is why it is called the Atlantic Proa.

The float is always to the leeside. The advantage is that your righting moment, for a given size of the platform, is no long how much weight you can put on a small ama to windward, but how much buoyancy (i.e. volume) you can have on the leeside ama; it can be a lot more than on the pacific proa, for the same overall displacement. So you can carry for a given wind speed much more sail area.

The disadvantage is that you beams are now loaded just like on a trimaran, and you pretty much cannot get away from freestanding rig, since you no longer have a platform to windward.

But those mechanical constrains, which were a no-no at the time of the Polynesian due to limitation on the available material to them at the time, is no longer an issue with modern construction techniques.

 

Note that both options still shunts; symmetrical transversally, instead of longitudinally, and bow becomes stern, stern becomes bow when you change tack...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hardly the first offshore proa Scot. I think you'll find that Dick Newick got there first with "Cheers" quite a few years ago (1967) and that's not counting the Polynesians who managed to populate the whole of the Sth Pacific Islands in them. She's now classed as a (sailing) heritage museum piece in France.

 

a bit of a joke from me...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sleeping on those proa's looks difficult to me.
And of course she has an auto pilot but tacking is not automatic, or is it?
I would't mind to have a proa as a day sailor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Experienced people who are committed and living in the country and onsite everyday are doing perfectly well manufacturing in Vietnam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As you would do anywhere. Amazes me how people can do that sort of hands off manufacturing with anything more than trinkets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As you would do anywhere. Amazes me how people can do that sort of hands off manufacturing with anything more than trinkets.

 

Rapido yard is pretty high tech actually. They recently got a big autoclave to cook their prepreg parts. Check out their fb page.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

did anyone actually look at the picture when they talk about Proas? Obviously a joke as the floater hull has a transom, so does the main hull!!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Hardly the first offshore proa Scot. I think you'll find that Dick Newick got there first with "Cheers" quite a few years ago (1967) and that's not counting the Polynesians who managed to populate the whole of the Sth Pacific Islands in them. She's now classed as a (sailing) heritage museum piece in France.

 

a bit of a joke from me...

 

Too right and the joke is on US for a change. Good one Scot. I thought that "Three Legs of Man" had suddenly become a cripple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Frankvdk" is right - it IS the Rapido 60 trimaran. A Morrelli & Melvin design, built by Paul Koch, of Corsair fame. As "spin echo" says - builder and yard with much high level boat building experience. Top flight (on-site) management, and experienced personnel. We think the boat will be a winner. For those interested, there will be more information at the Miami Boat Show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Traditionally, yes, they sail with the small hull (called ama) to windward. This is the Polynesian way, also called the "flying proa" or the Pacific Proa.

You have to remember that those vessels were developed and used on island with very little usable timber: you had to make the best use of little wood available.

By having the small hull to windward, and playing with "movable ballast", i.e. the crew, you can have a very light and efficient structure. Also, having the small hull to windward means that you have a platform to hold your mast with shrouds. Actually, the triangle mast/beam/shroud in this configuration is a lightly loaded structure; the beam does not have to withstand the bending loads that a leeside beam sees on a trimaran, for instance; in the Pacific Proa case, it works (almost) only in compression.

 

By having the small hull to windward, and playing with "movable ballast", i.e. the crew, you can have a very light and efficient structure. Also, having the small hull to windward means that you have a platform to hold your mast with shrouds. Actually, the triangle mast/beam/shroud in this configuration is a lightly loaded structure; the beam does not have to withstand the bending loads that a leeside beam sees on a trimaran, for instance; in the Pacific Proa case, it works (almost) only in compression.

Not so.

The highest load a Pacific proa sees is when the boat is accidentally caught aback. On traditional proas, the mast falls down. On modern Pacific proas, the forestay/backstay prevent this happening and the boat tries to capsize over the ex windward hull. The beam is then loaded in bending trying to lift 80% of the boat's weight. It happens rarely, but is the load the beam should be designed for.

 

The third type of proa is the harryproa. Designed to overcome the disadvantages of the Atlantic (lack of space) and Pacific (lack of righting moment, tricky to sail) without losing the advantages (fast, light, low cost). see www.harryproa.com . There are more cruiser sized harrys sailing and being built than the other types combined.

 

Congratulations to Ryan and Jzerro, a fine effort in a cool boat. I wish him well for the rest of the trip and his upcoming races.

 

Some numbers for the beam debate: A harryproa close to Jzerro is http://harryproa.com/?portfolio=solitarry-50.

The harryproa beams are longer (7m vs 6.5), the load on them while sailing is higher (max righting moment 3,250 vs 1,680) and they weigh 20 kgs each. Jzerro's weigh 55 kgs each, after having to be stiffened up.

The capsize-the-wrong-way loads on the beams are 2180 kgm for the harry and 6,720kgm for Jzerro.

There are some variables in this, but it does show that the "triangle mast/beam/shroud" is not the design load.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What gives you the right, Rob to talk like the expert on proas? Yes, you have managed to convince numerous people to build your boats, but besides having a golden tongue and being utterly convinced of your own logic, you don't have much to show for yourself. Only one of your boats has ever been out in the real ocean, a Tasman crossing that, besides taking over twice as long as Jzerro took for the same crossing, your design arrived with major structural damage. Can you provide any evidence that your designs can sail upwind well, steer at all well going downhill fast in waves, or sail fast on any point of sail at all? Okay, you aren't pushing them as high performance boats, but what exactly makes them better than a good catamaran? Lighter? Less load? Bullshit Rob. Get off your high horse and prove your boats have merit before dissing someone's well thought-out response to a question about proas that didn't even mention your designs..

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want to say, I have a lot of opinions about this type of boat now, and this isn't really the place for it. I'm still learning. I'm not an "expert" by any measure, but I still have more miles than some who claim to be. Proas are still in experimental stage. Rather than say there's one solution, we should be combining real world experience.

 

Anyway, isn't this a trimaran?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finn,

 

What the hell are you doing even watching this bunch of wankers going on about a trimaran that hasn't had its other ama installed yet. You have bigger things to occupy you so lets let the riff-raff have their day here and you just focus on getting home on Jzerro safely. You are well on your way to being one of few 'been there, done that' guys when it comes to proas. When are you going to transit and make the last leg? Good to see Russ chime in here in such a positive way, and you can only add to his legacy when it comes to proas. Big torch to carry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What gives you the right, Rob to talk like the expert on proas? Yes, you have managed to convince numerous people to build your boats, but besides having a golden tongue and being utterly convinced of your own logic, you don't have much to show for yourself. Only one of your boats has ever been out in the real ocean, a Tasman crossing that, besides taking over twice as long as Jzerro took for the same crossing, your design arrived with major structural damage. Can you provide any evidence that your designs can sail upwind well, steer at all well going downhill fast in waves, or sail fast on any point of sail at all? Okay, you aren't pushing them as high performance boats, but what exactly makes them better than a good catamaran? Lighter? Less load? Bullshit Rob. Get off your high horse and prove your boats have merit before dissing someone's well thought-out response to a question about proas that didn't even mention your designs..

TGTKOG

 

"Evidence?"

This is a 3 and a bit ton 50' cruiser fully kitted out (2 sitting head room queen doubles, 3 singles, shower, toilet, saloon table for 6, chart table, fridge, etc) sailing effortlessly at wind speed under main and jib. Cost, as a one off, first of it's type was $AUS400,000/$US280,000. Tacks through 90 degrees, top recorded speed 19.6 knots, also under main and jib. There is a 60'ter being built in Peru at the moment which will weigh about the same, with 50% more sail area and even more space. Better looking as well. And, because of the way it is built, it may be cheaper. http://harryproa.com/?portfolio=harryproa-cruiser-60

 

"Upwind/downwind in waves?"

No photographic evidence, but I had no problems off Freo (see '87 America's Cup videos for the weather) for 2 years. The overloaded 40' harry which crossed the Tasman and broke a ring frame handled 45 knots and the accompanying seas. The 25'ter that cruised 1,000 miles of the Indian Ocean coast of WA had 25-30 knots with unlimited fetch most days, without problems.

What makes you think there would be any difficulties?

 

"What makes them better than a good cat?"

They are closer to Newick's impossible trio (cheap, fast and comfortable) than a cat and now they are even easier/quicker to build. What do you think makes them less good than a cat?

 

"Less load?"

I presume you are talking about the beams? Did you design Jzerro's beams to act as a compression structure or to take the wrong way capsize loads in bending?

 

"What gives you the right, Rob to talk like the expert on proas?"

20+ years of breaking, designing, building and sailing them (Atlantic, Pacific, harrys and kite powered), and there are more proas to my designs than anyone else's. Does not make me an expert, just more knowledgable than the guy who asked the question and the guy whose answer was incomplete.

If you think you know more about them than we do, feel free to answer the question.

 

The "response may well have been well thought out", but the beam bit was wrong (this is Sensible Engineering 1.01, not proas) and he left the most successful/popular proa type off his list.

 

Finally, let's discuss your inference that all harryproa owners are stupid and sucked in by my golden tongue selling a questionable, untested and unproven concept.

All our clients, potential clients and the 550 or so people on the chat group are fully aware of all the development and sailing that has/hasn't happened in harrys. They are equally aware of you, your status, your boats, your voyages and your fan club's rabid attempts to lionise you and demonise me. Despite this, they still choose harrys.

 

Paul (Koch),

Boat looks very nice. Well done. Sorry for the hijack, blame Scot for his choice of title, ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blah blah blah, Rob. Same shit, same channel, same old video. How can you be proud of all the designs you have sold when you don't even know if they really work. In my book, designers test their boats in serious ocean conditions to find the weak points and race their boats to see how they stack up against others. You have done none of this with your boats and still you have the gall to call them "better".

You are a great salesman, Rob, I'll give you that, but I think your designs should be proven with more than just words.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was fortunate to get a ride on Russell's Jzerro last year. It is a very impressive sailing boat, you can see the video I took here.

 

 

And of course it is beautifully built and doesn't look its age or show the miles it has sailed. Russell certainly knows how to sail it! Completely at home with the boat. We were just passengers.

A couple of days later Russell "escorted" us all on the first leg of the Race to Alaska. You'll remember the famous pictures of the Crowther 38 catamaran "Nice Pair" going through Seymour Narrows. I was steering it then, as I also did for the whole of the first leg to Victoria. We had made a late start (8minutes late! genuinely not our fault) but soon caught up and passed the bulk of the fleet. But not Jzerro.

 

We only got past them approaching Victoria, 40 miles after the start. So maybe we were 10 minutes faster. And I think we were the only two boats in the fleet (including the monohulls and trimarans) to make the finish on one tack. We had done the 40 miles, to windward, in well under 4 hours and thus averaged 11 knots.

Jzerro is the third proa I have sailed and it was by far the best. The only real way to prove seaworthiness is to sail offshore in a gale. The only way to prove speed is to race against similar boats. Every boat is fast on its own! Rob has been selling the Harry proa concept for many years (15?). Some must have been finished by now. Some must have raced, some must have sailed oceans. So why don't we hear from their owners?

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

www.sailingcatamarans.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow! Who knew the Ed's dumb ass joke about offshore proas could start a shit fight... this is anarchy B)

Not really. Russ follows me round the forums spouting the same abuse and refusing to discuss boats. Last time he apologised for being rude, but seems he can't resist coming back and repeating himself. I used to respond in kind, but now ignore the abuse, and use it as an opportunity to talk about my boats. In the old days (it started 15+ years ago when I was the new kid on the proa block, with disruptive ideas), his fan club would enter the conversation with more abuse, blame me for starting it and turn the thread to mud. It's happening less and less as they realise harrys are actually pretty good.

 

Russ,

I post the "same shit", because you post the same questions, then ignore the answers.

 

If you want new stuff, check out Bucket List and Intelligent Infusion.

Bucket List is an attempt to get a fast, offshore capable multi into the hands of anyone who can sail for 500 bucks a day, or own one for $50K. It's been delayed as we have been busy with other stuff, but is back on track for a launch this year.

 

Intelligent Infusion is an on going exercise aimed at eliminating mess and waste in boat building. It's currently at the stage where we can build and fit out a one off 60' hull with no cutting or grinding of cured glass and no secondary laminating or sanding to get it to undercoat stage, inside and out. Quicker and lighter than conventional building as well. Exciting stuff to be involved with. The first 60 using it is under way. It is why we can sell a 40'ter like Bucket List for $50k.

Reports will be on the harryproa chat group as both of these proceed.

 

As I've told you many times, the boats built so far are offshore capable, but apart from the one successfully transporting all his worldly goods across the Tasman, the owners aren't interested in sailing offshore or racing. They learn about them from the forums, read the harryproa web site, ask a heap of questions and get a boat that suits their requirements. Business is booming. They're happy, I'm happy. For some reason, you and your cronies, who have been unsuccessfully pushing an alternative proa for 30 years, are not.

 

Richard,

See my first post, Jzerro is a cool boat. It is one of the reasons I developed harryproas. Your video is one of several of Jzerro straightlining in moderate breeze and flat water. Next time, could you video a shunt, an accidental strong wind gybe, someone not as experienced as Russ sailing it, pumping water/moving ballast when the wind picks up and running aground at high speed.

 

These have all been acknowledged as shortcomings by Russ and co in various magazine articles and been eliminated as problems on harrys. Until recently, this has been at the expense of looks, but now we are getting that under control as well as shown by the 66' Norwegian proa at http://harryproa.com/#section-899.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Selling harryproas relies on the same eternal truth that P.T. Barnum, Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, and a long list of shysters and charlatans depend on: "There's a sucker born every minute."

The record of this particular debate is long and very clear. Rob Denney's bald-faced lies never end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to throw my hat in the ring with Russ and Proa on this one. I have followed the HarryProas for years with great interest and it had always bothered me that this chasm between the two exists and shows no sign of going away. It has only gotten worse in this last round.

 

Monohull vs Multihull

 

Catamaran vs Trimaran

 

Proa vs Trimaran

 

Proa vs Catamaran

 

Atlantic Proa vs Pacific Proa

 

Harry vs Russ

 

Where will it all end?

 

Can't we all just be friends?

 

I did get a chance to race against Russ and his proa in the Tashmoo Dash many years ago and it was very impressive. I remember slowly reeling him in on a larger Newick Tri and was going to roll him to weather when he did a shunt. Blew my mind to see him bear down and then come to a complete stop and then shoot across my bow with plenty of room to spare. Any other boat would have already been in my poxket. I was thinking, "Is he on port, startboard?" Never came head to wind and I think that proas would totally require a re-write of the racing rules as not much applies in that sort of situation.

 

Got a brief sail a couple of days later and I was sold on proas. Not sure where I stand on the Atlantic/Pacific thing though.

 

goto2012quicksilver.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

"Richard,

See my first post, Jzerro is a cool boat. It is one of the reasons I developed harryproas. Your video is one of several of Jzerro straightlining in moderate breeze and flat water. Next time, could you video a shunt, an accidental strong wind gybe, someone not as experienced as Russ sailing it, pumping water/moving ballast when the wind picks up and running aground at high speed."

 

I genuinely believe that if those are really issues for a sailor, they shouldn't be out there alone on a high performance sailboat. Especially a multihull. I just don't think a boat like Bucket List is a good idea for amateurs. These boats, BL and Jzerro are still small for the ocean, and light. Combine that with high speed, and good luck finding an amateur who would feel comfortable falling asleep under autopilot, while going 15-20 knots and being greeted by many waves that are a lot heavier than the boat. Since you have not sailed BL, or any boat like it, alone in the ocean and over a distance of thousands of miles, this is all theoretical. But I'm certain there will be a lot of times where it's fairly violent living below. All of these small light multhulls are in the ocean. The only way around it is to make the boat heavier and slower or a lot bigger. Now get them in the tradewinds downwind, and no big deal. If only it were always downwind in the trades. These are basically race boats. Could you imagine if Mini's were developed around the safest way to crash gybe or that canting keels and waterballast are too complicated for the sailors crossing the oceans in them? Learn how to sail, and take some accountability before you go offshore alone. I'm in the middle of a trip that is far from over and there are lots of dangers ahead of me. I don't sit around all day thinking about running aground or crash gybing. I just do what I can to avoid them. Having kickup rudders so that goof balls can safely run aground or limiting sail controls that allow these goofy bastards to crash gybe their way across the ocean just isn't a good idea to me.

 

So next time you post Rob, can we expect a video of an accidental crash gybe in waves, or a high speed grounding? I won't hold my breath if you don't. As for the BL cartoon you posted, it's neat but there are some red flags. Amateurs, who you seem to be designing boats around, are not going to sleep in the windward hull while it's flying A Cat style with no waves and perfect ballance. I know you can imagine it, but can you do it? Also, what happens to the skipper who is stuck in the windward hull during the 90 knockover, and likely wave action. That doesn't exactly seem like the safest place to be for your average sailor.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't we all just be friends?

 

That ship sailed long ago. Many have tried but many years of gross misrepresentation and OBVIOUS dishonesty by Denney make mutual respect impossible now. I stopped reading his crap long ago. But look at just this one sentence from his post above:

 

It's happening less and less as they realise harrys are actually pretty good.

Malicious absurdity! Psychobabble. Crazy crap. Endless lies. Going on 17 years now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to throw my hat in the ring with Russ and Proa on this one. I have followed the HarryProas for years with great interest and it had always bothered me that this chasm between the two exists and shows no sign of going away. It has only gotten worse in this last round.

 

Monohull vs Multihull

 

Catamaran vs Trimaran

 

Proa vs Trimaran

 

Proa vs Catamaran

 

Atlantic Proa vs Pacific Proa

 

Harry vs Russ

 

Where will it all end?

 

Can't we all just be friends?

 

I did get a chance to race against Russ and his proa in the Tashmoo Dash many years ago and it was very impressive. I remember slowly reeling him in on a larger Newick Tri and was going to roll him to weather when he did a shunt. Blew my mind to see him bear down and then come to a complete stop and then shoot across my bow with plenty of room to spare. Any other boat would have already been in my poxket. I was thinking, "Is he on port, startboard?" Never came head to wind and I think that proas would totally require a re-write of the racing rules as not much applies in that sort of situation.

 

Got a brief sail a couple of days later and I was sold on proas. Not sure where I stand on the Atlantic/Pacific thing though.

 

goto2012quicksilver.jpg

 

Wow! I wish I could remember tacking in front of you. I'm quite sure I never saw that boat. What is it? Very beautiful. Any chance of posting a photo in a way I could blow it up for a better view?

I miss the Vineyard, lake Tashmoo, Buzzards bay. Proa misses it too, I'll bet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I have to throw my hat in the ring with Russ and Proa on this one. I have followed the HarryProas for years with great interest and it had always bothered me that this chasm between the two exists and shows no sign of going away. It has only gotten worse in this last round.

 

Monohull vs Multihull

 

Catamaran vs Trimaran

 

Proa vs Trimaran

 

Proa vs Catamaran

 

Atlantic Proa vs Pacific Proa

 

Harry vs Russ

 

Where will it all end?

 

Can't we all just be friends?

 

I did get a chance to race against Russ and his proa in the Tashmoo Dash many years ago and it was very impressive. I remember slowly reeling him in on a larger Newick Tri and was going to roll him to weather when he did a shunt. Blew my mind to see him bear down and then come to a complete stop and then shoot across my bow with plenty of room to spare. Any other boat would have already been in my poxket. I was thinking, "Is he on port, startboard?" Never came head to wind and I think that proas would totally require a re-write of the racing rules as not much applies in that sort of situation.

 

Got a brief sail a couple of days later and I was sold on proas. Not sure where I stand on the Atlantic/Pacific thing though.

 

goto2012quicksilver.jpg

Wow! I wish I could remember tacking in front of you. I'm quite sure I never saw that boat. What is it? Very beautiful. Any chance of posting a photo in a way I could blow it up for a better view?

I miss the Vineyard, lake Tashmoo, Buzzards bay. Proa misses it too, I'll bet.

 

I do indeed miss the Vineyard and all the amazing sailing adventures and people that went with it.

 

From this page at Golden Oldies, that photo by Berenchtein appears to be "trimaran 40' Newick Quicksilver":

 

http://www.goldenoldies.biz/gomrassemblements.htm

 

quicksilver.jpg

 

As to "the Atlantic/Pacific thing", exploring differences through objective analysis is one thing, making unsupported disparaging (and false!) remarks is entirely a different thing. The reasons it worked so well for the Micronesians still apply today - even better with modern materials and construction methods:

 

marshall_isles_proas_1000.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought that looked like Quicksilver. That is a Great Lakes boat, no? I still want to see a blow-up. Vision ain't what it used to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought that looked like Quicksilver. That is a Great Lakes boat, no? I still want to see a blow-up. Vision ain't what it used to be.

According to this Novembre 2012 Golden Oldies newsletter (and Google Translate), it's now in France - Gulf of Morbihan:

https://goo.gl/maps/TioAGAaMxtS2

 

QUIKSILVER was present at the Golden Oldies Trophy Oceanic

Houat in August, with its new mast and beautiful sails. None of

we had seen since 2003. I must say it was well protected ...

Logeo in his lair at the bottom of the Gulf of Morbihan, the good

Françoise care and Michel Geoffroy, its owners.

I haven't found a bigger photo yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been looking without much luck for photos of QUICKSLIVER to post in relation to this thread. Not much available and that photo from the GOM site was the only one I could find to add to this thread on short notice. She was a very unusual Newick boat in that the builder and his partner in the boat asked Dick to just sell them a design in the form of a lines drawing and they would work out all the construction details. They wanted a boat along the lines of the wing aka Natives that had been so successful in the trans-at races but with a stern treatment that faired the rudder right into the hull much in the manner of the Grindel sloops. I'm sure that Russ will remember Quicksilver and the owners Les Moore and Mike Conelly. They were sort of like the Mutt and Jeff of the NEMA (New England Multihull Association) and I was fortunate enough to be introduced to them on the eve of the race in Boston for the race that Sergy Sirkorsky had put together that summer. I did the Boston race with them and helped procure them some silver or bling and they invited me to come do the Buzzards Bay regatta a couple of weeks later. That was a real blowout with plenty of wind and we did well there. The owners offered to me that I take the boat to Martha's Vineyard for the up coming Tashmoo Dash which was Dick Newick's annual tribute race for his creations and any others that were worthy of that concept. I guess your dad and Dick were close enough to include your proa and I'm sure that Dick was not a dick as to who could enter the fray. We did a pursuit start from Hadley Harbor and you left maybe 10 or 15 minutes ahead of us as it was a pursuit race. We were well down towards Robinsons Hole which I think was a turning point of the course and that was where I was sure that I could out point you or drive over the top. I was just about at the point where I had you in my pocket and you looked back and did a shunt which just blew me away. I could have probably consolidated my dominate position but the absurd image of a shunting proa to leeward sort of put me into lockdown. I was just not sure what had just happened right in front of my eyes and how that related to the racing rules. I just opted to duck you (barely) and we crossed tacks a half hour later with you will in your wake. Fun race and fun party after at Dicks house. I love that sort of lowkey event and wouldn't it be great it Harry could show up with one of his boats. I'm really excited to hear that the New Orleans fellow has bought your boat with big plans and I hope to meet him soon and lend my help to his efforts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been interested in proas since I picked up a copy of norwood's book on high speed sailing 10 years ago. In that time I have followed the harry proa group with interest. In that 10 years I have only heard of Russ's designs in races or putting on some serious ocean miles. I was hoping bucket list would change that, but I think Rob needs people to finance his R&D efforts; and that is a tough sell to budget racers. I think the first proas that we will see racing distance races will be based on Russ's work, because he has proven himself. His plywood rocketships have held together for thousands of miles and decades. Rob's poras have raced tornadoes and in the proa congress. Greg Brett has an article on the proa congress, and Rob can yell you about the tornados. If you are truly interested in building a budget proa racer, buy a well thought out and proven design,like "madness".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Wow! Who knew the Ed's dumb ass joke about offshore proas could start a shit fight... this is anarchy B)

In the old days (it started 15+ years ago when I was the new kid on the proa block, with disruptive ideas), his fan club would enter the conversation with more abuse, blame me for starting it and turn the thread to mud.

 

 

Posts 39 and 42. As predicted. Their aim is to move the conversation along from my posts as quickly as possible, with whatever negative comments come to mind. Works for the train crash junkies, not for the readers who are more interested in boats than personalities.

There are probably a couple more to come with the same sort of stuff.

 

Ryan,

Bucket List is not just for pro racers or solo sailors. Most will sail it 2 up.

 

It will be a low cost opportunity for people who want to sail an offshore capable multihull fast. They don't have to sail it on the edge in the middle of the night; slowing down to comfortable will still be fast. And safe. In scary conditions, pull down the sails, lift up the rudders and wait. I comfortably sat out a F8 in the Bay of Biscay on a 30' x 13', 1 ton cat. In extreme conditions, launch a drogue. Not as safe as staying at home, but not far off it. The balls to the wall race types carrying on when they shouldn't are a bigger threat than the novice who knows how and when to stop.

 

BL is intended to be simple enough that any competent mono, multi, dinghy, cruiser or racer will be able to jump on it and race. Not to Hobart (although there are a couple of very competent guys who intend to fly in and do just that), but in any of the regattas around the world. If they have sufficient offshore experience in other boats they will have no problem racing Bucket List offshore. If they want to acquire that experience, Bucket List will be a relatively safe way to do so.

 

It might help you understand what all this means, if you list all the boat related problems you have had or heard of. eg rigging damage, sails shredding, halyards breaking, sail track pulling off the mast, exploding blocks, breaking sheets, falling overboard, rudders breaking, leaks, fire, instrument failure, autopilots, hitting things, broaches, etc etc. I will explain how they are minimised on Bucket List. Any I can't explain, I will start work on.

 

By the time it is ready for other people to sail, Bucket List will be tough enough that I will pay for any non collision damage.

 

I appreciate that owners of complicated, expensive or tricky to sail boats find this concept confronting, but if it works as planned, it will open up multihull sailing to a much wider audience.

 

Capsize:

BL has an anticapsize fuse which is simple and near idiot proof. The boat has positive rm up to about 80 degrees, so it would need waves and wind to capsize sideways. If it does capsize, the crew climb down the tramp (rope ladder provided), immerse the boom and right it. Maybe. I have had a lot of proa capsize experience, and this seems workable. In big waves it would be traumatic but not as much as being upside down.

 

The rest of your post:

You may "not sit around thinking about running aground", but if you don't think about hitting stuff at 20 knots in a boat with underhung spade rudders and a daggerboard, you have missed the lessons of Spindrift, Lending Club and many others. Equally, not thinking about the consequences of a crash gybe on a boat where such an event "blows the rig away" (according to the designer) seems shortsighted. You may not have done these yet, but almost everyone else who sails has (ok, not at 20 knots). Calling these people 'goof balls' and 'goofy bastards' when you have a web page asking them to pay for your sailing is probably counterproductive. It is certainly condescending.

 

I have no videos of harrys running aground or crash gybing, although there was a description of a crash gybe and how easy it was to correct (untie the main sheet, take it round the mast and retie it) on a 50' harryproa in the Brisbane Gladstone race thread a few years ago. Most people just look at the drawings and read the explanation to see it isn't a problem. The rest think about it and eventually figure it out.

 

You didn't mention the shunting video.

 

Good luck on the 11th, hope it goes well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is not magic bullet Rob. BL will have it's drawbacks like all real sailboats. And I stand by my goof ball statement. It's not safe to sell boats to people with the premise that "it will never break" and you can crash gybe it and run aground with no problems. Any sailor who believes that is a goof ball. That's my opinion. No yacht designer I've ever met would imply that their boats are unbreakable, but you do.


Again you're misquoting me. Please stop that. The rest of the "not sitting around thinking about running aground" quote is that I do what I can to avoid it. As in, I do my home work and pay attention as much as possible while actually sailing.



I look forward to the day you come back here with a boat that has actually done all of the things you are trying to enlighten me about. Until then, it's just an animation and a pitch. Pretty hard to hang your hat on that, yet, in a Doug Lord kind of way, you do. An idea is not proof. You need to do more than talk about it if you want people to respect your designs, especially while calling other very successful designers out! For example, talking down about VPLP's designs, which actually sailed around the world recently, again, with and without a damaged board, meanwhile, not one of your designs has crossed an ocean yet. Given the benefit of the doubt, you simply sound arrogant. Without it, you sound delusional. In my heart, I think you know VPLP are truly great designers.


I'll make any video you want, if you launch a BL. Until then, what's in it for me? It is a very dull proccess which wouldn't make very good video, in addition to the fact that I'm not good at making videos.


Thanks for the good luck note. I'll take all the luck I can get :) And 100%, no hard feelings. A lot gets thrown around on the forums, but I take mine with salt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Until then, it's just an animation and a pitch. Pretty hard to hang your hat on that, yet, in a Doug Lord kind of way, you do.
I'll make any video you want, if you launch a BL. Until then, what's in it for me? It is a very dull proccess which wouldn't make very good video, in addition to the fact that I'm not good at making videos.
Thanks for the good luck note. I'll take all the luck I can get :) And 100%, no hard feelings. A lot gets thrown around on the forums, but I take mine with salt.

 

 

What a half-ass comment ,finn!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reassuring to see Russ and Rob are on speaking terms again and again and again.

Why not take the opportunity to make an appointment to go sailing together since you guys have proved for decades now you got so much in common.

What else than true love and passion would stand this particular way of communicating.

I'm sure it will pay of, Oh and please remember the more than steep learning curve to profit the worldwide proa community.

 

Have fun.

 

Cherio,

 

For Quicksilversuckers:

 

post-50708-0-56414900-1454772816_thumb.jpg

 

post-50708-0-10824400-1454772873_thumb.png

 

post-50708-0-31323600-1454772913_thumb.png

 

post-50708-0-92598400-1454772990_thumb.png

 

post-50708-0-05927800-1454773045_thumb.png

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks HAYSB!

 

Are you sure that bottom photo is QUICKSILVER? She had a centerboard when I was racing her. But that is most definitely Black Rock Beach and the garage where she was built in the third photo. The second photo looks like before she had the original rig replaced and the semi circular traveller track added.

 

I had heard that a Frenchman bought her and that small photo I found on GOM was all I could find. Russ, it was QUICKSILVER that I raced against you during the Tashmoo Dash. It was the next summer that the Gougeon wing mast was fitted and I built the traveller up in Nahant. What was really unique about that boat was that is was built in port and starboard halves one at a time due to the width of the garage door. First half was rolled outside and covered with a tarp and the mold frames were flipped and the second half was built and the two joined up in the driveway in the Spring! I thought we were going to split her down the middle like a green bean in a howling Buzzards Bay regatta. The bigger Gougeon wingmast put far greater loads that the Prout style mast mounted well aft that I think had a backstay. Funny thing is that the old aft rig with the huge roller furling jib that went all the way to the stem was faster reaching in heavy air and that low angle of the headstay lifted the bows much like the kite of an Aussie 18 or any modern sprit rigged sportboat with an assymetric spi. Interesting to note how far aft the headstay was moved for the rotating wing.

 

More photos if anyone has them would be greatly appreciated!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was fortunate to get a ride on Russell's Jzerro last year. It is a very impressive sailing boat, you can see the video I took here.

 

 

And of course it is beautifully built and doesn't look its age or show the miles it has sailed. Russell certainly knows how to sail it! Completely at home with the boat. We were just passengers.

 

A couple of days later Russell "escorted" us all on the first leg of the Race to Alaska. You'll remember the famous pictures of the Crowther 38 catamaran "Nice Pair" going through Seymour Narrows. I was steering it then, as I also did for the whole of the first leg to Victoria. We had made a late start (8minutes late! genuinely not our fault) but soon caught up and passed the bulk of the fleet. But not Jzerro.

 

We only got past them approaching Victoria, 40 miles after the start. So maybe we were 10 minutes faster. And I think we were the only two boats in the fleet (including the monohulls and trimarans) to make the finish on one tack. We had done the 40 miles, to windward, in well under 4 hours and thus averaged 11 knots.

 

Jzerro is the third proa I have sailed and it was by far the best. The only real way to prove seaworthiness is to sail offshore in a gale. The only way to prove speed is to race against similar boats. Every boat is fast on its own! Rob has been selling the Harry proa concept for many years (15?). Some must have been finished by now. Some must have raced, some must have sailed oceans. So why don't we hear from their owners?

 

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

 

www.sailingcatamarans.com

 

 

Thanks much for your compliments on Jzerro, Richard. Glad I got to take you out for a burn.

Yes, you did beat us to Victoria, but it never would have happened if we hadn't been lost, cracked off way early and then tried to pinch to the mark. And my crew was seasick and hypothermic, lying on the floor for half the race, and the tack pennant broke costing us lots of time, and we started late too, plus all the other excuses. I was real sleepy, etc.

Why didn't you just come out and say that it was the "other" proa not being to get out of your slip that cost you 10 minutes? I just did.

Hope you can help me figure out how to sail the G-32, if I ever get it out of the shop.

Russell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't believe Rob (Harryproa) is still banging on for the proa....... Simple fact is, if they were any good they'd be the norm.......

Did you also just mention your experience with kites a few posts back....? another flawed and failed idea you can't seem to let go of......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Raps,

 

No, not sure if the bottom picture is Quicksilver, I've gathered thousands of pictures of the graceful Newick's over the years and wasn't very accurate documenting them in the beginning.

Quicksilver is mentioned in several articles in early NEMA newsletters http://www.nemasail.org/news.html#news

For the rest I know little about Quicksilver apart from that she was brought to france decades ago and still sails on the the Atlantic side. Last year she was put up for sale but not sure she was sold.

This PDF is from GO site, If you want to know more you have to contact GO I guess.

 

Fiche GOM - QUICK SILVER 07-14.pdf

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Raps,

 

No, not sure if the bottom picture is Quicksilver, I've gathered thousands of pictures of the graceful Newick's over the years and wasn't very accurate documenting them in the beginning.

Quicksilver is mentioned in several articles in early NEMA newsletters http://www.nemasail.org/news.html#news

For the rest I know little about Quicksilver apart from that she was brought to france decades ago and still sails on the the Atlantic side. Last year she was put up for sale but not sure she was sold.

This PDF is from GO site, If you want to know more you have to contact GO I guess.

 

attachicon.gifFiche GOM - QUICK SILVER 07-14.pdf

 

Fiche-GOM---QUICK-SILVER-07-14.jpg

Fiche-GOM---QUICK-SILVER-07-14b.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been interested in proas since I picked up a copy of norwood's book on high speed sailing 10 years ago. In that time I have followed the harry proa group with interest. In that 10 years I have only heard of Russ's designs in races or putting on some serious ocean miles. I was hoping bucket list would change that, but I think Rob needs people to finance his R&D efforts; and that is a tough sell to budget racers. I think the first proas that we will see racing distance races will be based on Russ's work, because he has proven himself. His plywood rocketships have held together for thousands of miles and decades. Rob's proas have raced tornadoes and in the proa congress. Greg Brett has an article on the proa congress, and Rob can tell you about the tornados. If you are truly interested in building a budget proa racer, buy a well thought out and proven design,like "madness".

 

I finance my R&D (and a bunch of other stuff) from harryproa plan sales. Bucket List has taken a back seat to Intelligent Infusion and some tricky mast building, but that is about to change.

You are right about Russ' designs being the first to race. Russ has been doing so for years. Wowing everyone who sees him, out performing much bigger boats, featuring on the covers of at least 2 high circulation magazines, sailing across the Pacific and other exciting voyages in a cool looking boat, built to a very high standard. He has an impeccable pedigree and apart from his fixation about me, is a nice guy who also runs a quality boat building shop. His boats have been pushed hard by some very vocal supporters, the design has now been taken up by Paul Beiker, one of the best designers in the world and endorsed by Richard Woods, a very successful and accomplished multi designer.

It is difficult to imagine a more potent set up.

 

Harrys don't race (they are all cruisers), don't get in or on the magazines, have only crossed one ocean (which is actually a Sea), look(ed) peculiar, are panned on the forums (admittedly by people with axes to grind and/or no experience of sailing them), have crappy videos and are designed by an ex boat bum who over promises and under delivers on his own projects with design help from a very competent and expensive engineer and recently, a stylist.

It is difficult to imagine a less potent set up.

 

And yet.....

I get a couple of enquiries a week (It'll be more this week. Thanks Russ), all of whom know about Russell and his boats. There are harrys sailing and being built all over the world. Most of them are large, expensive, very well researched projects by people who are extremely averse to spending money unnecessarily and know exactly what they want in a boat. Now that we have Intelligent Infusion sorted, we are flat out drawing the plans to keep ahead of the builders, and giving the new clients something to start on.

 

I have no idea how busy Russ/Paul are with proas, but it is notable that none of the Jzerro = Wow! people have them. Apart from Ryan, they seem to prefer cats or tris.

 

Curious, isn't it?

 

Back on topic:

 

Ryan intends to race this summer, hopefully he will do even better than Russ due to his new sails, competitive approach, sponsorship, etc. As I see it, the better he does, the more interest there will be in harrys. I hope this is motivating, Ryan! Bucket List will be ready when it is, but it is looking more likely now than it has for the past 12 months.

 

It would be great if someone raced Madness, but it is not a "proven design". It's predecessor did one race, pulled out with the predictable rudder troubles, and there is little evidence of any Madnesses sailing, much less racing.

The only proas designed and built specifically for racing so far are Elementarry and Team Pure and Wild. Elementarry raced the Tornados, then became a test bed, is currently rigged for kite boating, see http://harryproa.com/?p=424 TP&W entered the R2AK and is the nearest racing proa to Madness.

 

I used to love ply, built my first proa from it ~20 years ago. But now it is too dusty, sticky, wasteful, toxic and energetic. Same applied 20 years ago, but there were no options then. Now there are. It is much easier to let gravity (infusion) do a better job of laminating and fairing than I am capable of and get a lighter, cheaper boat in a fraction of the time with no mess, no need for suits and gloves, no fibreglass dust and no fairing.

 

Ryan,

Sorry for misquoting you. Does not change my premise that hitting something at high speed, or crash gybing in a big breeze are likely to seriously disrupt your day.

 

Please keep pointing out why you (and any others who care to) think Bucket List won't work. Bucket List is costing me a sizable lump of change. Feedback now is more use than "I could have told you that wouldn't work" once it is built.

 

From your post:

!t is "safe to sell boats that you can crash gybe with no problems" if that is the reality. And it is with Bucket list and the other harrys. This has been tested several times. Once when the helmsman fell asleep the rest when I am solo and have my head down trying to fix a screw up elsewhere on the boat. The boom swings around, until the sail is pointing into the wind and the boat stops. When you are ready, shet on and sail away. On Bucket List the boom is high enough that it won't hit anyone less than 7' tall.

 

I don't say you can run aground or hit things without problems. But if you do, harryproa rudders will kick up rather than bend the shaft, tear a chunk out of the bottom of the boat or start a leak in the rudder or dagger case.

 

I don't say or imply it will never break. Just that if you sail it and break something, I will replace it, apart from collision damage. This is not about unbreakability, it's about simplicity and a lack of things that can be screwed up. Happy to enlarge on this if you want specific examples.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Russ, you have a G-32 now?

Yes, I spoke for it a couple of years ago and finally bought it just a few days after delivering Jzerro to SF. It's having a major re-build at the moment, http://gougeon32.blogspot.com but I'm really looking forward to seeing what it's like to sail. I am attracted to it for several reasons, the first being the 15 or 20 minute launch time. Where I live trailerability is key. The G-32 is supposed to go almost 12 knots with an 8 hp outboard, so very efficient motoring or motor sailing are possible (important for me as we do long trips in places whee there is sometimes no wind). The extremely low righting moment seems to be balanced by only needing a tiny rig and other factors, such as easy trailerability and self righting. It's also supposed to be a very dry boat and be quite comfortable going upwind in a gale. I am looking forward to what I can learn from this boat and it will be nice to have a boat that can motor sail on both tacks. On the negative side, it's a production boat and some areas of my boat wee definitely built on a Friday.

HASYB, thanks for posting the photos. Quick Silver is really something. You say you have lots of photos of Newick boats? There needs to be some kind of photo bank of Newick's boats. We are re-publishing the book "Project Cheers" (a large undertaking) and will have a website as a compliment to the book. Maybe we could also host a photo bank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My G32 motors at about 8 knots with a 5hp motor. Thanks for posting all of the work on the refit blog. It helps us mere mortals with the upkeep on a such an unusual boat. I have some work I would like to do on Janet C, like a flush cabin top hatch, resealing windows, gel coat replacement, ect..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for those links Raps! I agree with your comment about the last photo being a Panache. I really had the hots for a Panache named 'Downton Flyer' which was based out of Isle of Man. Give me a minute to remember the names of the wild and crazy owners at the time and the seastory they told me about the boat getting kidnapped!

 

The foredeck really flips up on that model as shown in the photo.

 

83%20101%201.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Russell,

 

Couldn't agree more on a serious photo bank for all Newick's boats.

My idea with the pictures was to start a website someday with relevant info on the history of each boat.

Is the website of your "project Cheers" already in the air?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not exactly. It is far along enough to send links to the copyright heirs for their approval, but not really ready for the limelight.

I talked to Pat Newick about this a couple of years ago, that the images of dick's boats are really important. I think that few people really know how beautiful some of his boats are and how unique his art is. We are re-publishing Project Cheers mostly to benefit the Newick family. The photo bank could help sell the book about Dick and it could help sell Project Cheers. It could also spread Dick's art to a much broader audience and to a different generation. We also have something like 300 Cheers posters to sell.

 

Rapscallion, The cabin hatch I just finished is not flush, but it is molded to the compound curve of the house top. It's made from honeycomb with glass skins and is transparent. I'm also building a companionway hatch, and I'll get it all in the blog.

 

Rasputin, I still can't remember seeing Quick Silver at the Tashmoo dash, which really bothers me. Must have something to do with growing pains or misspent youth or maybe it was a hell of a long time ago. The mast-aft part of the story rang some bells. Maybe I wasn't even there. John York sailed that boat a lot and sailed it well, after I left the Vineyard.

 

What are your thoughts about the G-32? Don't be shy. I've been kind of a one trick pony most of my life. I haven't sailed on as many different boats as people like you and Richard Woods.

 

Russell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Russell, nice bag job on the G32. Have you ever used stretchlon film for bagging? It makes bulky awkward layups come out even. Some of the aerospace materials really save labor and justify their cost. The big takeaway for me on the G32 was its ease of motion,and low power sailing speed. Have fun. Guerdon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Russell,

 

Couldn't agree more on a serious photo bank for all Newick's boats.

My idea with the pictures was to start a website someday with relevant info on the history of each boat.

Is the website of your "project Cheers" already in the air?

I am still wondering about the origins and designer of this cold molded tri. It has many Newick features even though the rig, rudder and daggerboard are not original. It came to Washington State around 1995 from Sarasota Florida where it was apparently abandoned at a storage yard before being donated to a charity auction. Could it be an early Trimolino?

 

Ronstri3

Ronstri

Ronstri2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for those links Raps! I agree with your comment about the last photo being a Panache. I really had the hots for a Panache named 'Downton Flyer' which was based out of Isle of Man. Give me a minute to remember the names of the wild and crazy owners at the time and the seastory they told me about the boat getting kidnapped!

 

The foredeck really flips up on that model as shown in the photo.

 

83%20101%201.jpg

 

Thanks for those links Raps! I agree with your comment about the last photo being a Panache. I really had the hots for a Panache named 'Downton Flyer' which was based out of Isle of Man. Give me a minute to remember the names of the wild and crazy owners at the time and the seastory they told me about the boat getting kidnapped!

 

Downtown Flyer. Dick Gomes and Brian Law. We raced against them (in a 35' cat) in the 1982 Round Britain. They were narrowly beaten by Nigel Irons in a 40' tri.

 

I heard the boat was later sold to some French guys who did not pay the balance owed, so Dick and Brian went across to France and "stole" it back. They definitely had the gift of the gab, it made a great story. Not sure where it is now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is the story! I spent a wonderful evening in the Royal Western Yacht Club bar with them on the eve of the start of the Carlsberg Doublehanded Trans-At. I thought for sure they would get us kicked out of that bastion of old school yachtyness. I guess the wards at the YC were used to their antics. Thanks for the refresh on the names.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Downtown Flyer - wow that's a long time ago but I remember the stories going around

 

Russell - did I say that none of us had really sailed Nice Pair at all, and that it hadn't been sailed for 8? years. Certainly the first time I sailed it was when I grabbed the tiller as we left the PT dock. And, as I never let a tiller go when I have it in my hand, I steered the whole race. It was also the first time I had ever sailed from PT to Victoria, so we were quite happy to see you ahead as someone to follow

 

If all goes to plan I'll be on a faster boat in this years R2Ak so I hope you'll be out in your G32 so we can follow you again

 

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

 

www.sailingcatamarans.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay Richard, but we both beat some very fast boats and Nice Pair (must be an Australian that named that boat) was definitely fast. Was that Marstrom mast 55 feet tall? I guess we both had an advantage going upwind in big wind and chop.

 

Rasputin, are you keeping your thoughts about the G-32 to yourself?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No Russ,

 

I'm a bit bummed that I hadn't given more serious consideration to that very same boat (G32) when it first became available. I had already decided that it could be a sleeper for the R2AK and almost contacted the seller. Your a much better (and closer) new owner and steward for the boat that I would have been.

 

It took me a long time to become accustomed to the whole look and concept of the G32 but as I become older (and hopefully wiser) I am warming to the idea. I'm glad that you got the boat and also that your Jezzero has a new home just down the road from me. I hope to be able to meet her and the new owner soon.

 

BTW, I bought a fine example of the Brown/Marples Seaclipper 28 a couple of months ago from up in New Jersey. A very talented craftsman up on the Hudson River built her over a period of 20+ years and finally shoved off for open waters about three years ago. He made it as far as Sandy Hook New Jersey before having a heart attack. He got medivaced home and the boat sold a couple of years later for overdue dock fees. A NJ lifeguard bought it and put a new 8HP Yamaha HT on it and motored about 30 miles down the Jersey shore where he put it on a mooring for a year and a half. Don't think he ever raised a sail. I got a good price on it and bought a trailer to trail it down to the Gulf but was shocked to find that the builder had generously caulked the beams and amas together with 5200 and I had to Sawzall the damn thing apart. John Marples got a good chuckle out of that...

 

I'm not sure I have the fire in my spirit to do the R2AK but hope to do some gunkholing with the Seaclipper down in the Bahamas in the Spring.

 

Good luck with the G32!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No Russ,

 

I'm a bit bummed that I hadn't given more serious consideration to that very same boat (G32) when it first became available. I had already decided that it could be a sleeper for the R2AK and almost contacted the seller. Your a much better (and closer) new owner and steward for the boat that I would have been.

 

It took me a long time to become accustomed to the whole look and concept of the G32 but as I become older (and hopefully wiser) I am warming to the idea. I'm glad that you got the boat and also that your Jezzero has a new home just down the road from me. I hope to be able to meet her and the new owner soon.

 

BTW, I bought a fine example of the Brown/Marples Seaclipper 28 a couple of months ago from up in New Jersey. A very talented craftsman up on the Hudson River built her over a period of 20+ years and finally shoved off for open waters about three years ago. He made it as far as Sandy Hook New Jersey before having a heart attack. He got medivaced home and the boat sold a couple of years later for overdue dock fees. A NJ lifeguard bought it and put a new 8HP Yamaha HT on it and motored about 30 miles down the Jersey shore where he put it on a mooring for a year and a half. Don't think he ever raised a sail. I got a good price on it and bought a trailer to trail it down to the Gulf but was shocked to find that the builder had generously caulked the beams and amas together with 5200 and I had to Sawzall the damn thing apart. John Marples got a good chuckle out of that...

 

I'm not sure I have the fire in my spirit to do the R2AK but hope to do some gunkholing with the Seaclipper down in the Bahamas in the Spring.

 

Good luck with the G32!

I'm glad you like the 32. The one I bought was never advertised and spent it's whole life on Whidby Island, right next door.

I'm not planning to do the R2AK this year, or maybe ever. I think it's a fascinating race, but there are a lot of floating logs out here and I have never had the budget for insurance on a boat. When I have to sail at night, such as when crossing to the Charlottes, I slow way down and that's not what you do when you are racing.

I do want to soup the boat up with a new rig eventually, but first I need to really understand the boat and what it wants. I have a bare carbon spar that would be appropriate. It's an F-25 section from Omohundro and I think it will be about 2/3rds the weight of the existing spar, plus I think I can get rid some of the standing rigging. It's designing the new rig that I will need help with. Maybe if I loan the boat to some really talented people for NW cruises, they can help me figure out a new rig.

Hope you get to meet Ryan when he gets home. He says it looks like there will be plenty of wind for the ride home.

Are you going to cross to the Bahamas in the Seaclipper? The Bahamas are far enough from the Mainland to still be pretty amazing. That's the kind of cruising I love.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Russell, you should talk to Skip Elliot about G32,rigging. He really knows his stuff, and gave me many ideas for a more powerful boat. He also made Meades' sails and raced A cats with him. My desire was for a proven slightly conservative boat, and he accomplished this with Pemex and a fat head mainsail that twisted off like a windsurfer depowers. Very easy to control, yet fast. Jan said the first boats didn't have running backstays{like the Hobie 16} But several masts were broken but people who had no cat experience. The wrighting stays were made for me by Murrays Marine in Carpinteria, they a double swaged lifeline material. Deneema could be substituted for these and the other standing rigging for significant weight savings. Your boat will be a vintage race sleeper, like my Friends Lotus Seven. Good Fun! Guerdon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jzerro made it in to the Caribbean today. The Panama canal is no place for a light multihull and it sounds like it was hairy.

 

I got the photo Guerdon. Thanks. G-32 coming along.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Richard, is the below the Nice Pair you referenced above? Just curious.

 

I do not understand those who pooh proas or outriggers (tacking proas) or keelers etc. The proas and outriggers have been around for eons. Like outriggers, way easy to sail, just not seemingly "mainstream." So. Wharram's rigs are not so mainstream, but the products do what is asked of them.

 

Harry Proa, good on ya!

 

I liked the idea of a tacking....let's say outrigger so much, I decided to fashion one from cast off hulls...

 

Best I know of for hauling beer and that other joyful thing...or things.

post-38311-0-50468500-1455363500_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frikken boats are so interesting on large scale, so much so I sorta joined in with an wee outrigger. Love to see that rig trying to maneuver in Montrose Harbor in Chicago! That chair needs company, like a cooler and nekkid crew member(s).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites