• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Sign in to follow this  
Tornado_ALIVE

Foiling A Cats..... In chop

Recommended Posts

Into the chop, initially maybe 1 sec peak to peak or less. My guess would be it would stop foiling very quickly, and you'd get very wet. Across or downwind, yeeehahh!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where I sail my F18, the waves can pick up short and sharp at times.... Generally you are taking them at angles and surfing the waves as you go up and over them. If the waves are not at true wind angle, it gets a lot harder to push hard on one tack. Would a foiling A survive in this? Can you sail it downwind in sea hugging mode when you come across some large chop?

 

Best vid I have seen so far of an A foiling in chop and it is only very small chop.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi TA , that is BA 1yr ago with Exploders A14. Here we have all sort of choppy conds, check upwind, video flats real wave height. You also have days with breaking chop, or higher, steeper or shorter lenght depending on wind.

The As handles quite well most of them, in fact you can sail upto 18-20knots and tough conditions for the experienced guys.

 

But then you are not going to foil as easy and stable as in flat waters, this is the level local crews have now, watch 1:30

 

Of course perfect flat, do not expect to foil like that in choppy waters / waves, as seen above or also seen in Nick Bowers videos from Punta Ala, check last part with Ashby downwind

 

But In fact I'm surprised how well you can sail any kind of chop here, mostly on the foil lift , as you are literally flying/skiming over waves. Its almost safer than sailing the F18, on the pitching tendency,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Upwind, the chop doesn't really change anything because at the moment, you wouldn't be trying to foil in that sort of stuff anyway. Downhill, it is a challenge, but it isn't a ridiculous thing reserved only for the Gods of the A Class. For me, the biggest issue is it is full of OMG moments, or at least that is what they seem like until you get used to them and realise they aren't as bad as you think. You go through this cycle - OMG I am coming off the foils, into the back of a wave and I am going to be thrown around the bow and the boat is going to cartwheel. Hold your nerve, and the boat simply sails on but if you react, you wipe out! The same happens the other way. You get the OMG moments of teh boat about to jump out of the water and crash, so you react and get it wrong and you do wipe out. Stay calm, continue to push and the chances are you will be OK. After a while (short or long depending on your skill and fear factor!), you get more used to it and the heart stopping moments become less and less as you learn to trust the boat. The other thing that takes time to get used to and is all about holding your nerve is the speed. I think there is an exponential curve with speed and adrenalin being the axis - the adrenalin rush from a speed increase of 4 knots is a lot less going from 18-22 than it is from 22-26!

 

I think it is safe to say that for most, it is exactly what I have described above that makes the whole thing so addictive. It is even more full of adrenalin than before, yet it is "safer" than with a Moth. Forget all the BS about whether the boat foils in all conditions, upwind and downhill. It's the overall experience that is drawing people to A's and that experience is pretty amazing! I just wish my body would hold together long enough to do more :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So far I have had zero problems sailing the A downwind in chop, once you are going faster than the waves it just doesn't matter much. My big issue has been fighting my way upwind far enough to have the fast downwind runs.

 

But I just bought winglets for the rudders so the boat tends to porpoise in chop.

 

(Non-foiler, C board boat).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

24 months or 12 months :-p.

 

Taipan was OK however missed the apparent wind sailing so put a kite on it.

 

Missed the F18 class so got back into it, now remembering why I went to a one up class after loosing my crew.

 

Happy to stay with the F18 for a bit longer if I can find a good crew (Nationals are coming to our home club)...... But sooner or later I have to give this foiling a shot :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This past weekend we had 30 A-Cats sailing the Admiral's Cup in Sarasota, FL and easily had 14-18 knots with some higher puffs in 5 of 7 races. The top four places at the event were foilers and that was the first time this winter/spring we've seen the foilers take the top three podium spots. We probably experienced some 2' - 2.5' chop in those races with relatively short periods. We also had some big powerboat chops crossing the course at times. I was pretty amazed at how well we were foiling in those conditions and I know it is a product of time in the boat for the sailors with the DNA's and the Exploders. I have found it pretty amazing that once you have the boat flying 12-18 inches clear how chop really does not bother the motion or pitch level of the boat. I did not capsize once and I only came out of the footstraps once but stopped the trip forward just behind the front beam. I'm actually finding that it feels safer and more stable on the trapeze line foiling in 15-18 knots with chop than it does with a C board boat with winglets whether you are on the trapeze or not. And then there's the speed. It intimidated me at first but as I get more stable on the foils, I don't think as much whether I am "skeered" and I find I am getting back to thinking about the racing. Some of us are still using what we call the J-Z boards on the Exploders and I'll be switching to the Z's after our last spring event in April. I'm looking forward to an even more stable foiling experience after that change.

 

And it's only going to get better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys,

What's a 5 foot chop?

A 5 foot wave out here on these remote islands is like logo high to a windsurfer doing their bottom turn, because surfers measure from the back of the wave and don't carry rulers.

i have sailed in sf bay in the 25-30 knots with the current and chop, but never thought to say it was 5' high.

i guess the hatchery at the Gorge has 5' chop, but i never saw any regular sailboats in that part of the river.

I have always wondered if a spi cat or an A could handle launching off the back of the waves and landing on the top of the next for wave after wave as you pass them up as they tack downwind in an small ocean swell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The top of our bay is quite shallow and in a southerly the waves can pick up quite steep when the wind is blowing. These waves you will get airborne coming off if you dont steer down the back of the wave as you are going upwind. Downwind, you are running an s pattern heading up to climb a wave before bearing down surfing the face of the wave. It is quite challenging, if the waves are not at true wind angle, it can be quite difficult on one tack and very harsh on the boat.

 

In these conditions, a skipper can get sore arms from all the steering :D. I can hear all the sympathetic crews now :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Went out on the F18 today in a pleasant 17 to 21 knot southerly....... Some of the larger waves that came through would have been an easy 7' and were so short and steep that I could not sail the F18 up and over them despite heating up with crew on the wire and myself hiking out. We had to ride on the back of the wave until it flattened out a bit.

 

I think even Ashby would have died out there if he tried to foil through it...... Wish I had the head cam on today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget that you an always set the foils to have less lift and sail in "lowrider" mode if conditions require it. The current A's are really nice to sail like that in big breeze and waves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have finally sold my C2 and also purchased a DNA...... The Forward Sailing Exploder also joined our club for the first time yesterday. Port Melbourne's first two foilers :D

 

image_zpsorctt0ye.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cheers WP..... I guess I will need to do a bit of training ..... Attempting to foil at Port Melbourne in a gusty northerly.

https://youtu.be/G7u8JKZtt3w

Looks like you are easing sheet too much once the boat foils and that is probably what is causing the "teabags'. When the boat starts foiling, sheet on and bear away and when you turn back up just use a slight ease of the sheet. It's kind of counter-intuitive to what you are used to doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cheers mate, I was easing sheet to get the boat flat and up on foils however I defiantly was not sheeting in fast enough or bearing away, as soon as it did get up. I have also been advised my traveller was too far out. I was running a pretty tight leach when sheeted in. I take it I should have more twist in the sail.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys,

What's a 5 foot chop?

A 5 foot wave out here on these remote islands is like logo high to a windsurfer doing their bottom turn, because surfers measure from the back of the wave and don't carry rulers.

i have sailed in sf bay in the 25-30 knots with the current and chop, but never thought to say it was 5' high.

i guess the hatchery at the Gorge has 5' chop, but i never saw any regular sailboats in that part of the river.

I have always wondered if a spi cat or an A could handle launching off the back of the waves and landing on the top of the next for wave after wave as you pass them up as they tack downwind in an small ocean swell.

 

 

5' is about max on SF Bay, maybe a little more right near Alcatraz or out by the bridge you can get some wave on wave stuff

 

I was taking water hard on the deck of the powerboat yesterday between Alcatraz and the city front, and my deck is 5' off the water. It was pretty windy.

 

I can't see sailing an A cat in that. It was pretty nasty. Certainly wouldn't think of sailing my 14 there, might have tried to 15 years ago, would have been swimming a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The top of our bay is quite shallow and in a southerly the waves can pick up quite steep when the wind is blowing. These waves you will get airborne coming off if you dont steer down the back of the wave as you are going upwind. Downwind, you are running an s pattern heading up to climb a wave before bearing down surfing the face of the wave. It is quite challenging, if the waves are not at true wind angle, it can be quite difficult on one tack and very harsh on the boat.

 

In these conditions, a skipper can get sore arms from all the steering :D. I can hear all the sympathetic crews now :P

 

 

Sailed a 14 Worlds there in '99. those waves seem to come in 3s, and downwind, you'd sail off the third top into a massive hole. Was quite a lot of fun, if very challenging.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got out today in 10 to 15 knots and managed to get up on foils a few times. Longest burst was about 15 seconds which I am stoked with. It is pretty scary how quick the boat accelerates and the apparent comes around when up on the foils.

 

Also managed to stick the nose into a reasonable size wave whilst on foils which resulted in me swinging forward to just in front of the front beam...... managed not to swim and find my footing again.

 

Later in the day whilst on foils I heard the crack of Carbon so limped it back home. Ended up splitting the head of a rudder which was previously repaired.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just an update.  With new rudders fitted and getting the angels of the rudders / boards set up, I found myself foiling a lot better...... In flat water.

Despite advice from many people though, I continued to try to foil at Port Melbourne in large chop.  I thought if I could learn to foil in these conditions, I would be able to foil easily in flat.

My experience was, when coming up to a large wave I had to round up a bit to get the leeward hull back in the water before tackling the wave.  When I got it wrong, it wasn't pretty.  If I foiled through a wave and the main boards came mostly out of the water as they were exiting the wave, the boat would crash down and the deceleration would try to throw you around the front.  Then you had foiling both bows into the back of a wave which resulted in the boat violently parking it.  I found, if I stayed at the back of the boat when either of these occured, I would not swim and recovery back onto foils was fairly quick.  I therefore decided to fit a chicken line to keep me down the back.

On an F18 or Tornado when you trap with a chicken line on, your feet are pretty close together and you are fairly stable if you stick the nose in.  On the A Class, your feet are a bit further apart.  Mid December sailing in about 15 knots and short sharp chop I stuck both bows into a wave doing 22+ knots.  My rear foot was in the toe strap and the chicken line hooked up.  The deceleration loaded up my front foot resulting in it slipping forward.  I ended up doing the splits and folding my right knee (front leg) into the gunwale.  The boat did not cartwheel however I felt a pop followed by a stabbing pain.  I managed to get back on the boat and back to shore under a lot of pain.  After and MRI, I found out the result was a grade 2 tear of the MCL along with a ruptured ACL.  I am currently undergoing an 8 week rehab allowing my MCL to heal before I will go under the knife for an ACL reco followed by 9 to 12 months recovery.

Now I will no longer be able to attend the A Class Worlds along with the unsuitability of foiling an A at my local club when there is any sort of sea state, I have sold the A Class and recently purchased a Marstrom Tornado.

So, takeaways for me from this experience are.....  Try to avoid foiling in large chop.  Don't fit a chicken line to an A and take the swim like a man rather than risking a knee injury.  Also, don't sail A's alone.  I was way above the top mark with no other boat even close whilst the race committee was setting a start line.

I loved the A and will miss foiling.  I may get another A again one day however at the moment it is not practical for me to travel to a flat water location t race it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Tornado_ALIVE said:

Just an update.  With new rudders fitted and getting the angels of the rudders / boards set up, I found myself foiling a lot better...... In flat water.

Despite advice from many people though, I continued to try to foil at Port Melbourne in large chop.  I thought if I could learn to foil in these conditions, I would be able to foil easily in flat.

My experience was, when coming up to a large wave I had to round up a bit to get the leeward hull back in the water before tackling the wave.  When I got it wrong, it wasn't pretty.  If I foiled through a wave and the main boards came mostly out of the water as they were exiting the wave, the boat would crash down and the deceleration would try to throw you around the front.  Then you had foiling both bows into the back of a wave which resulted in the boat violently parking it.  I found, if I stayed at the back of the boat when either of these occured, I would not swim and recovery back onto foils was fairly quick.  I therefore decided to fit a chicken line to keep me down the back.

On an F18 or Tornado when you trap with a chicken line on, your feet are pretty close together and you are fairly stable if you stick the nose in.  On the A Class, your feet are a bit further apart.  Mid December sailing in about 15 knots and short sharp chop I stuck both bows into a wave doing 22+ knots.  My rear foot was in the toe strap and the chicken line hooked up.  The deceleration loaded up my front foot resulting in it slipping forward.  I ended up doing the splits and folding my right knee (front leg) into the gunwale.  The boat did not cartwheel however I felt a pop followed by a stabbing pain.  I managed to get back on the boat and back to shore under a lot of pain.  After and MRI, I found out the result was a grade 2 tear of the MCL along with a ruptured ACL.  I am currently undergoing an 8 week rehab allowing my MCL to heal before I will go under the knife for an ACL reco followed by 9 to 12 months recovery.

Now I will no longer be able to attend the A Class Worlds along with the unsuitability of foiling an A at my local club when there is any sort of sea state, I have sold the A Class and recently purchased a Marstrom Tornado.

So, takeaways for me from this experience are.....  Try to avoid foiling in large chop.  Don't fit a chicken line to an A and take the swim like a man rather than risking a knee injury.  Also, don't sail A's alone.  I was way above the top mark with no other boat even close whilst the race committee was setting a start line.

I loved the A and will miss foiling.  I may get another A again one day however at the moment it is not practical for me to travel to a flat water location t race it.

Wow. Bummer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Tornado_ALIVE said:

Just an update.  With new rudders fitted and getting the angels of the rudders / boards set up, I found myself foiling a lot better...... In flat water.

Despite advice from many people though, I continued to try to foil at Port Melbourne in large chop.  I thought if I could learn to foil in these conditions, I would be able to foil easily in flat.

My experience was, when coming up to a large wave I had to round up a bit to get the leeward hull back in the water before tackling the wave.  When I got it wrong, it wasn't pretty.  If I foiled through a wave and the main boards came mostly out of the water as they were exiting the wave, the boat would crash down and the deceleration would try to throw you around the front.  Then you had foiling both bows into the back of a wave which resulted in the boat violently parking it.  I found, if I stayed at the back of the boat when either of these occured, I would not swim and recovery back onto foils was fairly quick.  I therefore decided to fit a chicken line to keep me down the back.

On an F18 or Tornado when you trap with a chicken line on, your feet are pretty close together and you are fairly stable if you stick the nose in.  On the A Class, your feet are a bit further apart.  Mid December sailing in about 15 knots and short sharp chop I stuck both bows into a wave doing 22+ knots.  My rear foot was in the toe strap and the chicken line hooked up.  The deceleration loaded up my front foot resulting in it slipping forward.  I ended up doing the splits and folding my right knee (front leg) into the gunwale.  The boat did not cartwheel however I felt a pop followed by a stabbing pain.  I managed to get back on the boat and back to shore under a lot of pain.  After and MRI, I found out the result was a grade 2 tear of the MCL along with a ruptured ACL.  I am currently undergoing an 8 week rehab allowing my MCL to heal before I will go under the knife for an ACL reco followed by 9 to 12 months recovery.

Now I will no longer be able to attend the A Class Worlds along with the unsuitability of foiling an A at my local club when there is any sort of sea state, I have sold the A Class and recently purchased a Marstrom Tornado.

So, takeaways for me from this experience are.....  Try to avoid foiling in large chop.  Don't fit a chicken line to an A and take the swim like a man rather than risking a knee injury.  Also, don't sail A's alone.  I was way above the top mark with no other boat even close whilst the race committee was setting a start line.

I loved the A and will miss foiling.  I may get another A again one day however at the moment it is not practical for me to travel to a flat water location t race it.

Ouch TA. That injury/damage really sucks. We will stick with flat water+rib for training and some occasional chop but when it gets real bad we will switch to the F18 (best to own both boats :) ). Your experience in sailing the boat in choppy conditions mimicks mine, keep those feet spread and stay attached or just go for a swim, with enough bungee on the trapeze you'll stay close enough for a quick recovery in my experience. Its also easier/safer to push when you have a rescue boat close at hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi TA, 

Total bummer.   I hope your recovery and surgery goes very, very well. With good care you will be back on the water. 

I will just share what a wise man once told me.   Completely commit to your rehab (e.g. physical therapy); do not skip on anything does not matter how busy you are. 

Cheers, 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good luck TA, sorry for your misfortune.  I applaud you for sharing - helps us all.

 

Dave Clark came down and gave a nice talk that included a lesson on what happens when foilers punch through waves and what designers do to mitigate the consequences.

Perhaps Dave and/or Steve would care to further educate us in this or a similar forum?  Please?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 09/01/2018 at 11:24 AM, Tornado_ALIVE said:

 

 The deceleration loaded up my front foot resulting in it slipping forward.  I ended up doing the splits and folding my right knee (front leg) into the gunwale.  The boat did not cartwheel however I felt a pop followed by a stabbing pain.  I managed to get back on the boat and back to shore under a lot of pain.  After and MRI, I found out the result was a grade 2 tear of the MCL along with a ruptured ACL.  I am currently undergoing an 8 week rehab allowing my MCL to heal before I will go under the knife for an ACL reco followed by 9 to 12 months recovery.

Now I will no longer be able to attend the A Class Worlds along with the unsuitability of foiling an A at my local club when there is any sort of sea state, I have sold the A Class 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9 January 2018 at 9:24 PM, Tornado_ALIVE said:

Just an update.  With new rudders fitted and getting the angels of the rudders / boards set up, I found myself foiling a lot better...... In flat water.

Despite advice from many people though, I continued to try to foil at Port Melbourne in large chop.  I thought if I could learn to foil in these conditions, I would be able to foil easily in flat.

My experience was, when coming up to a large wave I had to round up a bit to get the leeward hull back in the water before tackling the wave.  When I got it wrong, it wasn't pretty.  If I foiled through a wave and the main boards came mostly out of the water as they were exiting the wave, the boat would crash down and the deceleration would try to throw you around the front.  Then you had foiling both bows into the back of a wave which resulted in the boat violently parking it.  I found, if I stayed at the back of the boat when either of these occured, I would not swim and recovery back onto foils was fairly quick.  I therefore decided to fit a chicken line to keep me down the back.

On an F18 or Tornado when you trap with a chicken line on, your feet are pretty close together and you are fairly stable if you stick the nose in.  On the A Class, your feet are a bit further apart.  Mid December sailing in about 15 knots and short sharp chop I stuck both bows into a wave doing 22+ knots.  My rear foot was in the toe strap and the chicken line hooked up.  The deceleration loaded up my front foot resulting in it slipping forward.  I ended up doing the splits and folding my right knee (front leg) into the gunwale.  The boat did not cartwheel however I felt a pop followed by a stabbing pain.  I managed to get back on the boat and back to shore under a lot of pain.  After and MRI, I found out the result was a grade 2 tear of the MCL along with a ruptured ACL.  I am currently undergoing an 8 week rehab allowing my MCL to heal before I will go under the knife for an ACL reco followed by 9 to 12 months recovery.

Now I will no longer be able to attend the A Class Worlds along with the unsuitability of foiling an A at my local club when there is any sort of sea state, I have sold the A Class and recently purchased a Marstrom Tornado.

So, takeaways for me from this experience are.....  Try to avoid foiling in large chop.  Don't fit a chicken line to an A and take the swim like a man rather than risking a knee injury.  Also, don't sail A's alone.  I was way above the top mark with no other boat even close whilst the race committee was setting a start line.

I loved the A and will miss foiling.  I may get another A again one day however at the moment it is not practical for me to travel to a flat water location t race it.

Classic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Classic is likely an option for Port Melb.  Since I am out for the Worlds, it made sense to sell the boat pre Worlds for max $.  Post worlds I would expect quite a few boats to come on the market.  I picked up the T fairly cheap and have no plans of selling it however will likely buy an A as a second boat later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Tornado_ALIVE said:

Classic is likely an option for Port Melb.  Since I am out for the Worlds, it made sense to sell the boat pre Worlds for max $.  Post worlds I would expect quite a few boats to come on the market.  I picked up the T fairly cheap and have no plans of selling it however will likely buy an A as a second boat later.

Sounds like a plan. 

You would expect to get the T cheap as it’s a dying fleet worldwide and in Aus. A’s are different. Going from strength to strength. Our experience after the last five worlds here has been a surge of interest after the event as people who thought they were coming in just for the Worlds realise what a great boat they are and stay in. With foiling and classic now we tick a lot of boxes. 

Elwood is a better option up that end of the bay as there are plenty of A’s there to sail against and learn from. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CoolBreeze said:

I look forward hearing the whinging from everyone at Hervey Bay with the chop and wave we will get there.

Conditions are similar to Punta Ala and Sopot. It’s only the real foiling novices who struggle with that sort of mild bay chop. In the unlikely event we get a day of 20-25 Northerly we’ll teach the visitors car park cricket. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, WetnWild said:

Sounds like a plan. 

You would expect to get the T cheap as it’s a dying fleet worldwide and in Aus. A’s are different. Going from strength to strength. Our experience after the last five worlds here has been a surge of interest after the event as people who thought they were coming in just for the Worlds realise what a great boat they are and stay in. With foiling and classic now we tick a lot of boxes. 

Elwood is a better option up that end of the bay as there are plenty of A’s there to sail against and learn from. 

Yeah agreed, it is a shame as the T is without a doubt the best boat I have ever sailed. They are a machine with very good manners.  I was thinking of getting an F18 again however if I did, it would have to be a new or near new boat, deck sweeper, find a gun crew and train hard or I would not have been happy.

At the moment, I am not fussed about competive sailing.  I just want to enjoy the boat, get my wife out on it and slowly introduce my two young girls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Tornado_ALIVE said:

Yeah agreed, it is a shame as the T is without a doubt the best boat I have ever sailed. They are a machine with very good manners.  I was thinking of getting an F18 again however if I did, it would have to be a new or near new boat, deck sweeper, find a gun crew and train hard or I would not have been happy.

At the moment, I am not fussed about competive sailing.  I just want to enjoy the boat, get my wife out on it and slowly introduce my two young girls.

Nice. Used the same plan myself 30 years ago. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, at this stage in my life you should consider yourself lucky to still be sailing.  I also do a lot of 4wding and touring as well.  I obviously have a great wife who still lets me build cars and play with my toys.

the next stage will be all about kids sports..... so hopefully we can get them into sailing :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/10/2018 at 12:24 AM, Tornado_ALIVE said:

Just an update.  With new rudders fitted and getting the angels of the rudders / boards set up, I found myself foiling a lot better...... In flat water.

Despite advice from many people though, I continued to try to foil at Port Melbourne in large chop.  I thought if I could learn to foil in these conditions, I would be able to foil easily in flat.

My experience was, when coming up to a large wave I had to round up a bit to get the leeward hull back in the water before tackling the wave.  When I got it wrong, it wasn't pretty.  If I foiled through a wave and the main boards came mostly out of the water as they were exiting the wave, the boat would crash down and the deceleration would try to throw you around the front.  Then you had foiling both bows into the back of a wave which resulted in the boat violently parking it.  I found, if I stayed at the back of the boat when either of these occured, I would not swim and recovery back onto foils was fairly quick.  I therefore decided to fit a chicken line to keep me down the back.

On an F18 or Tornado when you trap with a chicken line on, your feet are pretty close together and you are fairly stable if you stick the nose in.  On the A Class, your feet are a bit further apart.  Mid December sailing in about 15 knots and short sharp chop I stuck both bows into a wave doing 22+ knots.  My rear foot was in the toe strap and the chicken line hooked up.  The deceleration loaded up my front foot resulting in it slipping forward.  I ended up doing the splits and folding my right knee (front leg) into the gunwale.  The boat did not cartwheel however I felt a pop followed by a stabbing pain.  I managed to get back on the boat and back to shore under a lot of pain.  After and MRI, I found out the result was a grade 2 tear of the MCL along with a ruptured ACL.  I am currently undergoing an 8 week rehab allowing my MCL to heal before I will go under the knife for an ACL reco followed by 9 to 12 months recovery.

Now I will no longer be able to attend the A Class Worlds along with the unsuitability of foiling an A at my local club when there is any sort of sea state, I have sold the A Class and recently purchased a Marstrom Tornado.

So, takeaways for me from this experience are.....  Try to avoid foiling in large chop.  Don't fit a chicken line to an A and take the swim like a man rather than risking a knee injury.  Also, don't sail A's alone.  I was way above the top mark with no other boat even close whilst the race committee was setting a start line.

I loved the A and will miss foiling.  I may get another A again one day however at the moment it is not practical for me to travel to a flat water location t race it.

My crew did the same injury, but not as bad (one month off sailing) on a Marstrom Tornado. 

We plowed into the wake of a keeler (just forward of the photo), and planted it, his foot was in the footstrap, but no chicken line. This front foot slipped forward, doing the splits, straining his knee.

It was the footstrap that caused the issues.

image.thumb.png.c03608adc35f7e86b01748ba7f9a54a2.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not the only knee damage in the fleet. At the nationals, there was at least one fairly serious knee injury that was bad enough to end the week and I have heard he will be out for a couple of months. There were also a couple of foot/ankle injuries. I think foot straps have a lot to answer for. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

Not the only knee damage in the fleet. At the nationals, there was at least one fairly serious knee injury that was bad enough to end the week and I have heard he will be out for a couple of months. There were also a couple of foot/ankle injuries. I think foot straps have a lot to answer for. 

Nah it’s fast boats that are the problem. I’m selling mine and buying an SB5 - whatever that is but it sounds slow enough. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found trapping with legs apart causes the front foot to slip.  Keep legs close and when the front leg loads up, it does not slip forward.  

Stuffed the bows plenty of times at speed with the chicken line on, feet close together and you stay planted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Skiffs have been using foot straps for years with few issues, maybe different boat dynamics. Cat sailors seems to trap off the side of the hull, so much more slippery surface than a skiff's gunwale or rack with a high–grip surface. Maybe cats need some non–slip patches on the hull (might look like shit though).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, RobG said:

Skiffs have been using foot straps for years with few issues, maybe different boat dynamics. 

They might have them but nobody sticks their foot in them.

30 years ago we called them ankle busters and discouraged their use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I though footstraps has to be adjusted tight enought, in order that only the tip of the feet is inside the footstrap so, in case of a violent slow down,  the feet would slide outside before to  brake.

The footstrap is not here to play the role of a chicken line is it??

Cheers and best recovery TA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this