Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

frozenhawaiian

recommend me a headsail furler.

Recommended Posts

Hey guys. the old Furler that came with my boat is shot so it's time for a replacement. this furler will be going on my 1970 hinckley 38. much as I like the harken MKIV it's just not in my budget so the units I'm looking at are:


harken ESP furler: fairly new on the market from what I understand. I like harken quality and product support but I'm a little wary of a "budget" furler, even from harken.


Facnor LX-165: never used them personally but my understanding is that they're very good quality.


profurl C-350: again, never used them personally but I'm told they're good quality. though not quite at the same par as the facnor and harken, price point is attractive however. the green annodizing is like nails on the chalkboard to me..


the harken and the facnor are within $100 of each other in price, which the profurl is several hundred dollars cheaper. any thoughts on these guys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Facnor. Quality that you pay for.

Going cheap and then having a furler fuck itself, and with it the sail, or your muscles/skin? Is that original saving worth it? Hmmm.

 

 

Standing by for plenty of stories of failures on every brand, and how every other option is best, or how someone made theirs from bits of swain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Harken...easy to build, simple and (most importantly) parts and expertise are very easy to come by.

 

I have built 4 Harken and one Selden Furlex. The Furlex took longer to build than the 4 Harken units combined, but it seemed to work well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For your type of boat there is not much between most structural furlers so pick one for size, top and bottom connections, control line take-off position, what is standard versus extra over, local after sales service/parts etc that best fits your application. Top down furler brand differences are a different kettle of fish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Facnor. Quality that you pay for.

Going cheap and then having a furler fuck itself, and with it the sail, or your muscles/skin? Is that original saving worth it? Hmmm.

 

 

Standing by for plenty of stories of failures on every brand, and how every other option is best, or how someone made theirs from bits of swain.

yeah I'd like to not not have a sub par furler.

 

 

Harken...easy to build, simple and (most importantly) parts and expertise are very easy to come by.

 

I have built 4 Harken and one Selden Furlex. The Furlex took longer to build than the 4 Harken units combined, but it seemed to work well.

do you have any experience with the harken ESP furlers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with that Bob, great gear and wonderful people. I don't think they are as concerned about the last nickel, they would rather help a sailor out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Harken has set the standard for customer service and fortunately more and more marine manufacturers are stepping up to match it. No one tops it so far in my experience. I strongly recommend their gear. However....

 

I'm not that thrilled with the ESP furl. I recognize that it is a product designed for a lower price point but for my money (note that it isn't) spending the extra eight hundred bucks on the Mark IV, is well worth it. I have built a few ESPs and they perform well for my customers (so far), but the Mark IV is a much better product and well worth the extra dough (if you can pull it off).

 

The Profurl is bulletproof, but heavy, stiff and unserviceable. I love the Facnor line drives for their action and mechanical advantage but the extrusions are a little fragile and the last time I priced one out it was more spendy than a Mark IV. They all go together really easily.

 

What's the pin size, 1/2 or 5/8?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Harken do make good gear, however the Furlex design (Selden) is simple to install with no screws needed to hold the foil sections together, takes no time at all to remove the drum if racing, has excellent bearings top and bottom, and solid bronze turnbuckle for easy forestay tuning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks a lot for the info guys. I really would love a harken MKIV but it just isn't in the budget right now unfortunately. WHL: I looked again at the selden furlex unit. looks like a nice piece of gear, the fact that it it includes a new forestay wire is nice, allows me to knock out 2 birds with one stone. how do you like yours?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Harken is the top of the line, Nate. I'd say go with that. My father in law put on on his Hunter 46 and he loves it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I use the one in my book, no problems in the 34 years I have been using it, and many ocean crossings. Cost me around $80 to build; far more reliable than far more expensive commercially made ones.

What we have been using for extrusion is 1 1/4 inch sch 40 aluminium pipe with a slot cut in it on a table saw. That needs to be sanded extremely smooth. We used to be able to get it extruded with the slot in, but no more. That may still be available in some areas. Then we weld the drum to the bottom of the extrusion and the halyad block to the top. The simplicity rig and the famet are done this way.

You then simply hoist the sail on a wire halyard thru the block, tie the end to the drum ,tighten it with a downhaul, and take the rope tail away. A freind, working for a rigger ,said a lot of people, frustrated with halyard swivel problems, were converting their rig to this system.,

We screw plastic bushings in the extrusion every couple of feet, to keep the stay centred. Been using mine since 1982, no problems.

 

 

interesting, certainly don't have the time or equipment to fabricate one myself

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't pay attention to BS, he's the equivalent to this year's GOP slate.

I.E. riding in the clown car.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't pay attention to BS, he's the equivalent to this year's GOP slate.

I.E. riding in the clown car.

he seems to think that I've both heard of, and read some book of his.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I recommend Harken. I know the people and they take good care of me.

 

Well, I recommend Furlex; I know the people and they have always taken good care of me. :rolleyes:

 

Truth to be told, both Harken and Furlex are very good. Whatever you (OP) do, don't go for cheap solutions on the furler.

 

/J

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't have much personal experience, but the Antarctic/Cape Horn charter fleet was almost 100% Pro-furl. Seems a pretty good endorsement to me. The boat we sailed to Antarctica had one Pro-furl and one Selden. The captain had very little good to say about the Selden and really wished they had bought a second Pro-furl.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't have much personal experience, but the Antarctic/Cape Horn charter fleet was almost 100% Pro-furl. Seems a pretty good endorsement to me. The boat we sailed to Antarctica had one Pro-furl and one Selden. The captain had very little good to say about the Selden and really wished they had bought a second Pro-furl.

any reason why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My SELDEN is great, plenty of miles and not a problem. The only part I wish was engineered better is where the foil enters the drum... doesn't have enough "bury" for me. The twisting moment is huge right there and could do with a bit more area to handle twist... but that problem has never eventuated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Don't have much personal experience, but the Antarctic/Cape Horn charter fleet was almost 100% Pro-furl. Seems a pretty good endorsement to me. The boat we sailed to Antarctica had one Pro-furl and one Selden. The captain had very little good to say about the Selden and really wished they had bought a second Pro-furl.

any reason why?

 

 

Don't remember the details, but even after an extensive rebuild/modification/beefing up the Selden was still causing problems. Furlers get really hammered down there, lots of days sailing in big wind with partially furled jibs while running down wind and taking big collapses and then filling with a bang. This was a pretty big heavy boat as well, being a steel 65 footer, so hard on gear.

 

Basically, these boats see conditions on a weekly basis that most boats will never be sailed through, and being charter boats they sail a lot of days each year, so all kinds of stuff gets broken and abused. The boat we went to Antarctica on spent the few weeks before our trip south beating upwind from South Georgia to cape Horn. Whether that kind of usage is relevant to most of us is another question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The captain had very little good to say about the Selden and really wished they had bought a second Pro-furl.

any reason why?

 

 

The Furlex extrusions are really light, which is both a blessing and a curse. While most of the damage is non sailing, ie. pole strikes, stepping or storage, I would imagine a semi furled sail in a really big blow might bugger it up a bit as well. My bitch with Furlex extends to the difficulty with servicing the lower bearing thoroughly and the chronicly oversized marine eye on the provided shroud. To be fair, none of mine have fallen down or completely failed to date but they have occasioned more problems than any of the competition, except CDI, which has absolutely nothing good to be said for it other than cost.

 

Speaking of which, I think Reckmann is top of the line (that German engineering) though why I don't know, doesn't give me heart flutters and I'd rather use the extra cash to buy a Maserati.

 

What's on the boat now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I've never seen a huge difference between profurl and facnor...besides they are owned by the same company now right? It should be noted that a profurl swivel won't spin freely since it's packed in grease. It also means that if you need to repair it it is not an easy fix like washing out a ball bearing race or replacing balls. It's low maintenance until it isn't.

 

I put together a harken esp furler against my wishes. It came out fine, took a little longer than it should have. The thing I really didn't like about it beside the way it looks was that the foil that is adjustable for height seemed a bit undersized. I'm sure it's alright but compared to the cruising units they briefly made and the mkiv it didn't seem right.

 

As for the selden furlex...I've built a couple smaller units, one was for a Blue Jay, because it was the cheap alternative. The foils linked together with just a metal tab with a button on each end. There just seems to be a lot of play in the joints that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

The captain had very little good to say about the Selden and really wished they had bought a second Pro-furl.

any reason why?

 

 

The Furlex extrusions are really light, which is both a blessing and a curse. While most of the damage is non sailing, ie. pole strikes, stepping or storage, I would imagine a semi furled sail in a really big blow might bugger it up a bit as well. My bitch with Furlex extends to the difficulty with servicing the lower bearing thoroughly and the chronicly oversized marine eye on the provided shroud. To be fair, none of mine have fallen down or completely failed to date but they have occasioned more problems than any of the competition, except CDI, which has absolutely nothing good to be said for it other than cost.

 

Speaking of which, I think Reckmann is top of the line (that German engineering) though why I don't know, doesn't give me heart flutters and I'd rather use the extra cash to buy a Maserati.

 

What's on the boat now?

 

yes, reckmann is top notch, every big sailing yacht I've worked on, bar non, has has hydraulic reckmann furlers and I've never had a single issue with them. don't know a thing about the manual furlers. at the moment the boat has an old as dirt CDI, absolute garbage

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not Selden. I've had two collapse under warranty. The basic problem is that all the torque is transfered from the drum to the foil through a weedy bit of plastic and two torx machine screws. The machine screws come loose and the foil slides down the forestay to jam in the bottom, meanwhile the sections part above the top swivel, neatly preventing the sail being lowered.

 

This happened to me whilst half way across the Atlantic. Replaced by Selden's approved contractor in Florida, only for the same thing to happen again. This time I sold the boat before claiming again.

 

My current boat came with a Hood Seafurl 2 which I've just replaced after 30 years service with a Harken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not Selden. I've had two collapse under warranty. The basic problem is that all the torque is transfered from the drum to the foil through a weedy bit of plastic and two torx machine screws. The machine screws come loose and the foil slides down the forestay to jam in the bottom, meanwhile the sections part above the top swivel, neatly preventing the sail being lowered.

 

This happened to me whilst half way across the Atlantic. Replaced by Selden's approved contractor in Florida, only for the same thing to happen again. This time I sold the boat before claiming again.

 

My current boat came with a Hood Seafurl 2 which I've just replaced after 30 years service with a Harken.

 

interesting, what did selden have to say? also how long does their warranty run?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 on the Reckmann, I have had one on my boat for 8 years and it has been flawless in operation. Easy to get the drum off for racing as well. But, they do cost more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't have much personal experience, but the Antarctic/Cape Horn charter fleet was almost 100% Pro-furl. Seems a pretty good endorsement to me. The boat we sailed to Antarctica had one Pro-furl and one Selden. The captain had very little good to say about the Selden and really wished they had bought a second Pro-furl.

Funny you should say that. The Furlex I installed was to replace a POS pro-furl that had nasty sharp edges in the foil that cut the sail luff when rolled, and a black plastic thing at the top of the foil, that did nothing but catch the spin halyard. The Furlex was flawless.

 

Edit: the Furlex reefed cleanly and handled two back to back 2600 miles crossings with no issues at all. The 5k + miles had some heavy air and probably experienced more use in those miles than many coastal cruisers experience in years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not Selden. I've had two collapse under warranty. The basic problem is that all the torque is transfered from the drum to the foil through a weedy bit of plastic and two torx machine screws. The machine screws come loose and the foil slides down the forestay to jam in the bottom, meanwhile the sections part above the top swivel, neatly preventing the sail being lowered.

 

This happened to me whilst half way across the Atlantic. Replaced by Selden's approved contractor in Florida, only for the same thing to happen again. This time I sold the boat before claiming again.

 

My current boat came with a Hood Seafurl 2 which I've just replaced after 30 years service with a Harken.

Selden say to use locking compound on those screws, mine is around four years old.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Despite the locktite, the machine screws still fell out! Also, I discovered a discrepency between the English and Swedish assembly instructions. The English ones left a 100mm gap in the inner spacers, whereas the Swedish ones didn't! This allowed the foil to part above the swivel.

 

SWMBO spent 2 days up the rig repairing Selden's mistakes. The solution was to drill and tap grub screws through the foil and into the jointing pieces to prevent them ever coming apart again. The pins just above the drum were replaced with larger machine screws again, tapped into the foil and set on duralac to prevent corrosion.

 

You pays your money ...

 

But I'm delighted with my new Harken!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Facnor. Quality that you pay for.

Going cheap and then having a furler fuck itself, and with it the sail, or your muscles/skin? Is that original saving worth it? Hmmm.

 

 

Standing by for plenty of stories of failures on every brand, and how every other option is best, or how someone made theirs from bits of swain.

yeah I'd like to not not have a sub par furler.

 

 

Harken...easy to build, simple and (most importantly) parts and expertise are very easy to come by.

 

I have built 4 Harken and one Selden Furlex. The Furlex took longer to build than the 4 Harken units combined, but it seemed to work well.

do you have any experience with the harken ESP furlers?

 

No...Just the MK4 and MK3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Don't pay attention to BS, he's the equivalent to this year's GOP slate.

I.E. riding in the clown car.

Do a search under Silas Crosby to see how they work. He put a lot of Southern Ocean miles on his.

Doesn't take much equipment to build one, a table saw , a jig saw, drill and some files. A days work. Some take them to an aluminium fabricators to have the welding done , about 4 feet of welding, total.

 

 

good for him, I'm still not building one. and bullshit that "plenty of cruisers" are converting to home built furlers. I've spent a lot of time sailing up and down both coasts and all over the caribbean and not once had I ever seen a boat with a home built furler.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aldo from Brazil

 

Simplicitys from Quebec

 

both use the same continious extruded pipe method

 

I moving part

 

Not much chance of a jam

 

 

I'd go for the Aldo as there are 2 grooves

 

 

Perhaps

 

the home built furlers are superior in that the pipe is one piece masthead to turnbuckle with no slip joints, but difficult to ship 50 foot pipe from Brazil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aldo from Brazil

 

Simplicitys from Quebec

 

both use the same continious extruded pipe method

 

I moving part

 

Not much chance of a jam

 

 

I'd go for the Aldo as there are 2 grooves

 

 

Perhaps

 

the home built furlers are superior in that the pipe is one piece masthead to turnbuckle with no slip joints, but difficult to ship 50 foot pipe from Brazil

It's Alado. Better made than the CDI units, with a stiffer extrusion. Both designs have the advantage of internal halyards, solving the vexation of halyard wrap. Both designs have the disadvantage of internal halyards, limiting halyard tension, placing the extrusion in compression, and making peels a royal pain in the ass. I know a few people with Alados; they seem reasonably happy with them for the sailing they do. We have a CDI FF2 on our SJ21. It's fine for that boat, but I wouldn't fancy one on the Albin we're restoring.

 

Anybody have first-hand experience with the Plastimo line of headsail furlers? SailCare sells them in the US. Apparently common enuf in parts of Europe, but little known here. On the one hand, they look moderately cheesy. OTOH, those people who actually use them claim surprisingly good durability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I replaced the original furler on my 4kn. sb two yrs ago with an Harken ESP, Pretty easy setup, so far very pleased with the performance and no problems. I can also recommend the Harken furling line blocks that raise the line off the deck a little onto the stanchions Forget what the kit from Harken was called but well worth the money..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frozen:

Come on, give BS a chance. His design is simple. It's based on a No 10 juice can for a drum. What could go wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have owned multiple Harken, Profurl, Selden top down (currently), and Facnor (currently) furlers for range of racing and cruising boats. Properly selected, installed, and sized they all have performed extremely well.

 

I am east coast US (and might think otherwise if located otherwise) but Harken shined above the rest in terms of after-market support and service, whereas Facnor was the most difficult to source parts and technical support from.

 

Being a bang for buck and self sufficiency kinda guy I like the idea of building my own but I have to say that relative to the cost of the boat,, the furling gear is not at the top of the $ cost list but it is one of those things I need to be bulletproof and work well all the time. Not sure the risk/reward of a self build furler makes sense.

 

Wess

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frozen:

Come on, give BS a chance. His design is simple. It's based on a No 10 juice can for a drum. What could go wrong?

well when you put it that way bob it sounds perfectly safe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frozen:

Come on, give BS a chance. His design is simple. It's based on a No 10 juice can for a drum. What could go wrong?

What do you do when the juice leaks out?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Don't pay attention to BS, he's the equivalent to this year's GOP slate.

I.E. riding in the clown car.

Do a search under Silas Crosby to see how they work. He put a lot of Southern Ocean miles on his.

Doesn't take much equipment to build one, a table saw , a jig saw, drill and some files. A days work. Some take them to an aluminium fabricators to have the welding done , about 4 feet of welding, total.

 

OK, I'll bite. This place can be pretty stuck in the same ole...

 

Not a Trump fan but you seem to have some street cred as I did take a quick look at the site and have to say they do some serious sailing. And I gather you designed the twin keel boat (they now seem to be on a Corsair).

 

Tell me about your involvement in the twin keel project, what became of it and them and some more about this home made furler. Yea, the lemmings here will poke at you but ignore them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Don't pay attention to BS, he's the equivalent to this year's GOP slate.

I.E. riding in the clown car.

Said like a true profurl salesman . They dont want anyone to know of cheaper alternatives. So what does he have to offer? Nothing but juvenile jeering!

You remind me of a freind who went into a sailmakers for a new genoa. When they asked him what kind of furler he had he said "A Brent Swain design. They said

"Throw it inthe garbage and buy one of ours, for thousands of dollars . He rolled his eyes and left, and put a lot of miles and years on his Brent rig, with zero problems .

Another friend, with many years on his Brent rig, switched it for a super expensive, commercially made one . When I asked him what the difference was ,he said "Zero difference."

The 'Simplicite" rig is a comercially made version of my furler . 5 times the cost of doing yoyur own , but stil far cheaper,simpler and thus more reliable than most alternatives, Friends who have put a lot of miles on them have zero complaints.

 

 

yes you're design is so amazing that no one has ever heard of it and in over a decade of sailing up and down both coasts and caribbean and the med I've never seen or heard of a boat with one of your supposedly amazing homebuilt furlers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Don't pay attention to BS, he's the equivalent to this year's GOP slate.

I.E. riding in the clown car.

Do a search under Silas Crosby to see how they work. He put a lot of Southern Ocean miles on his.

Doesn't take much equipment to build one, a table saw , a jig saw, drill and some files. A days work. Some take them to an aluminium fabricators to have the welding done , about 4 feet of welding, total.

 

OK, I'll bite. This place can be pretty stuck in the same ole...

 

Not a Trump fan but you seem to have some street cred as I did take a quick look at the site and have to say they do some serious sailing. And I gather you designed the twin keel boat (they now seem to be on a Corsair).

 

Tell me about your involvement in the twin keel project, what became of it and them and some more about this home made furler. Yea, the lemmings here will poke at you but ignore them.

 

I did most of the steel work on Silas Crosby, Dr Millar ,her skipper ,had dreamed about cruising Chile and the Cape horn area since he was a teenager. In Fiji ,returning from New Zealand on his Spencer 35 , he said "If this boat was a foot wider and made of steel, it would be perfect." There, he read an article in Lattitude 38 about my boats, and decided to build one.

When he got back ,he rented a yard in Comox , bought a set of plans ,some tools, and the steel, and put me to work .

We built the boat there, blasted, flame sprayed and painted her . Then he moved her into his back yard for finishing , where Tony Lyons was hired to put the interior in, and Steve did a lot of his own work. After launching, he did a lot of BC Cruising , several trips around Vancouver Island and to Haida Gwai and back ,before setting sail to Mexico, Hawaii and home again. He said having a steel hull on a dark foggy night gave him far greater peace of mind than he had ever had in his Spencer.

 

Then ,after many more years of BC cruising, he set sail for Mexico , Galapagos, Easter Island and Chile. Just before arriving in Valdiva ,he got into an extreme storm, which broke down centuries old trees in Valdiva . He left the boat in chile for one or two winters, then rounded the Horn and headed for the Australs, which he said were like Tahiti half a century ago. He sailed north to the Aleutians, encountering a storm wich was far more severe than anything he found in the southern ocean . His series drouge and steel hull made it no problem, no worries.

He said twin keels were a huge advanatge in Chile , where most of the fishing fleet spends a lot of time dried out,. A friend ,down there at the moment ,said it can be a long way between secure anchorages. Not the case if you can dry out. Steve said he spent many a stormy night hard aground in the lee of the hills, while those in single keelers spent the night rocking, rolling, and worrying.

When Steve got back ,he said he didnt want to see Silas Crosby gathering mold in a marina , unused, so he sold her, and bought the backyard trailerable trimaran .

 

Funny how things connect.

 

My wife and I are huge CSN&Y fans so naturally we noticed a boat w Crosby in its name when we ran across Steve and his clan. I had no idea you did his boat until I saw you post and you mentioned the name Silas Crosby. Color me impressed - w/ both you and and Steve. They took that boat everywhere and like you said... he is not the kind to let moss grow. Guess we are kindred spirits as my wife and I also now own an F27 after gradual downsizing from our offshore days.

 

If that boat had your furling gear on it I want to know more. PM me or post some links if the animals here get too abusive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

see Alado and Simplicity furlers

 

(Brazil and Quebec)

 

for one moving part furlerts with connected halyard

 

(no top swivel to jam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no upper swivel, as I clearly stated.It is just a block, bolted or welded to the top of the extrusion ,like on the simplicity rig.You hoist the sail on its 1/8th inch wire halyard, then take the rope tail off, and shackle the end of the halyard to the drum.Then you tighten the luff with a few turns around the tack of the sail, thru a stainless shackle on the drum, to give you purchase.Then the works, halyard and all, rotates around the stay. From that point on, you have only one moving part.

 

Cut two 14 inch diameter 3/16t inch aluminium plate discs. Centre a 4 inch length of six inch aluminium pipe on it. Temporarily bolt them together and have it welded. Smooth all edges off with a file. That is your drum.

 

For spacers run a hole saw, which makes plugs the inside diameter of your pipe ,partway thru a piece of 3/4 inch poly sheet. Then run a half inch drill right thru where your luff rope goes..Then run a forestay diameter, plus 1/16th inch for clearance, diameter drill, in the centre right thru, for your forestay.Then hole saw out the rest of the plug. Hold it in the pipe extrusion with 3 flat head counter sunk ss screws per spacer, every 2 feet.

 

Don't get much clearer than that.

 

Edit didn't work . Tried the correction many times, but when I hit "Save" it was still there. Gave up.

 

I wrote an article for Pacific Yachting in the early 80s on my furler , when Paul Burkhart was editor. Don't know if it was archived. Lots of them sprung up after that. That was with two pipes. I went for the single pipe since then.

 

ya know, you posted basically this exact same thing a ways back up the page. wasn't interested then, which I mentioned and I'm still not interested now. do I need to say it in a different language? perhaps draw a picture? you remind of the tallship sailors who think you need to sail with square sails beceause it's older and supposedly simpler and therefore better and need to wear a rigging knife and marlin spike and not bathe to be a "real sailor"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, if it only uses 1/8" wire as a halyard, it can't be a very big sail. Thus it doesnt need much structure to make it roll, and the friction in the system is easy to overpower. And many people worry about weight aloft. You don't worry about that at all! And just how long does "poly" (whatever that is, it must be plastic) resist the wear & point loading of the headstay wire? Yes, if you never go sailing, it lasts forever? Three fasteners into each "poly" disc ever 2' is a lot more fasteners than the overpriced commercial units use to hold their foils together, and are much more likely to back off & protrude, since their is no make of threadlocker that works in "poly". Unless, of course, you stand the bare system out in the salt air until the counter sunk ss fasteners cause the aluminum tube to corrode them into immovable sources of white jello. And the tube itself is bare aluminum, so it too will soon have a corroded surface, just what you want rubbing against a tightly reefed headsail.

PERFECT!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

There is no upper swivel, as I clearly stated.It is just a block, bolted or welded to the top of the extrusion ,like on the simplicity rig.You hoist the sail on its 1/8th inch wire halyard, then take the rope tail off, and shackle the end of the halyard to the drum.Then you tighten the luff with a few turns around the tack of the sail, thru a stainless shackle on the drum, to give you purchase.Then the works, halyard and all, rotates around the stay. From that point on, you have only one moving part.

 

Cut two 14 inch diameter 3/16t inch aluminium plate discs. Centre a 4 inch length of six inch aluminium pipe on it. Temporarily bolt them together and have it welded. Smooth all edges off with a file. That is your drum.

 

For spacers run a hole saw, which makes plugs the inside diameter of your pipe ,partway thru a piece of 3/4 inch poly sheet. Then run a half inch drill right thru where your luff rope goes..Then run a forestay diameter, plus 1/16th inch for clearance, diameter drill, in the centre right thru, for your forestay.Then hole saw out the rest of the plug. Hold it in the pipe extrusion with 3 flat head counter sunk ss screws per spacer, every 2 feet.

 

Don't get much clearer than that.

 

Edit didn't work . Tried the correction many times, but when I hit "Save" it was still there. Gave up.

 

I wrote an article for Pacific Yachting in the early 80s on my furler , when Paul Burkhart was editor. Don't know if it was archived. Lots of them sprung up after that. That was with two pipes. I went for the single pipe since then.

 

ya know, you posted basically this exact same thing a ways back up the page. wasn't interested then, which I mentioned and I'm still not interested now. do I need to say it in a different language? perhaps draw a picture? you remind of the tallship sailors who think you need to sail with square sails beceause it's older and supposedly simpler and therefore better and need to wear a rigging knife and marlin spike and not bathe to be a "real sailor"

 

Chill out maybe. You might not be interested but others are. Millar had Crosby everywhere - many not easy miles - and if it had this rig that's saying something. If you knew who he (Millar) was its a bit silly to compare him to a tallship sailor. I would wager there is a very good chance he has 10-100X more miles under his keel than you do and likely more miles sailing without any keel at all. Have you met him? Have you seen the boat? Dang, when did this place turn into white bread, follow the beaten path, cocktail and dock cruising, hero worship anarchy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I use the one in my book, no problems in the 34 years I have been using it, and many ocean crossings. Cost me around $80 to build; far more reliable than far more expensive commercially made ones.

What we have been using for extrusion is 1 1/4 inch sch 40 aluminium pipe with a slot cut in it on a table saw. That needs to be sanded extremely smooth. We used to be able to get it extruded with the slot in, but no more. That may still be available in some areas. Then we weld the drum to the bottom of the extrusion and the halyad block to the top. The simplicity rig and the famet are done this way.

You then simply hoist the sail on a wire halyard thru the block, tie the end to the drum ,tighten it with a downhaul, and take the rope tail away. A freind, working for a rigger ,said a lot of people, frustrated with halyard swivel problems, were converting their rig to this system.,

We screw plastic bushings in the extrusion every couple of feet, to keep the stay centred. Been using mine since 1982, no problems.

Who in their right mind would suggest a wire halyard let alone the rest of that abortion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

There is no upper swivel, as I clearly stated.It is just a block, bolted or welded to the top of the extrusion ,like on the simplicity rig.You hoist the sail on its 1/8th inch wire halyard, then take the rope tail off, and shackle the end of the halyard to the drum.Then you tighten the luff with a few turns around the tack of the sail, thru a stainless shackle on the drum, to give you purchase.Then the works, halyard and all, rotates around the stay. From that point on, you have only one moving part.

 

Cut two 14 inch diameter 3/16t inch aluminium plate discs. Centre a 4 inch length of six inch aluminium pipe on it. Temporarily bolt them together and have it welded. Smooth all edges off with a file. That is your drum.

 

For spacers run a hole saw, which makes plugs the inside diameter of your pipe ,partway thru a piece of 3/4 inch poly sheet. Then run a half inch drill right thru where your luff rope goes..Then run a forestay diameter, plus 1/16th inch for clearance, diameter drill, in the centre right thru, for your forestay.Then hole saw out the rest of the plug. Hold it in the pipe extrusion with 3 flat head counter sunk ss screws per spacer, every 2 feet.

 

Don't get much clearer than that.

 

Edit didn't work . Tried the correction many times, but when I hit "Save" it was still there. Gave up.

 

I wrote an article for Pacific Yachting in the early 80s on my furler , when Paul Burkhart was editor. Don't know if it was archived. Lots of them sprung up after that. That was with two pipes. I went for the single pipe since then.

 

ya know, you posted basically this exact same thing a ways back up the page. wasn't interested then, which I mentioned and I'm still not interested now. do I need to say it in a different language? perhaps draw a picture? you remind of the tallship sailors who think you need to sail with square sails beceause it's older and supposedly simpler and therefore better and need to wear a rigging knife and marlin spike and not bathe to be a "real sailor"

 

Chill out maybe. You might not be interested but others are. Millar had Crosby everywhere - many not easy miles - and if it had this rig that's saying something. If you knew who he (Millar) was its a bit silly to compare him to a tallship sailor. I would wager there is a very good chance he has 10-100X more miles under his keel than you do and likely more miles sailing without any keel at all. Have you met him? Have you seen the boat? Dang, when did this place turn into white bread, follow the beaten path, cocktail and dock cruising, hero worship anarchy?

 

 

I wasn't comparing millar to a tallship sailor, and yes I know who he is. I was comparing BS to the annoying "older is better" variety of tallship sailor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like Wess belongs in the Twisted Nickers YC. They have a great burgee.

Not sure what prompted that except maybe too much sauce?

 

Like I said... ran across the boat and its been there and done that. If that was with the rig being discussed I am curious to know more. Not sure why you would care either way. Certainly didn't mean to offend anyone by asking - frankly I would think my comments on the thread are far less offensive than most including your own - but its SA and I'm a big boy so have at it.

 

BTW, it sounds like you already have the burgee, so by all means send me one Grandpa. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amazing. I would have thought the furler would quickly wear the galvanizing off the headstay, leaving unsightly rust stains on the Tyvek sail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a member Wess but you qualify.

 

But you are correct. I am a Grandpa and I love it. Would not trade that for anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here BS goes again with his

 

 

Well, if it only uses 1/8" wire as a halyard, it can't be a very big sail. Thus it doesnt need much structure to make it roll, and the friction in the system is easy to overpower. And many people worry about weight aloft. You don't worry about that at all! And just how long does "poly" (whatever that is, it must be plastic) resist the wear & point loading of the headstay wire? Yes, if you never go sailing, it lasts forever? Three fasteners into each "poly" disc ever 2' is a lot more fasteners than the overpriced commercial units use to hold their foils together, and are much more likely to back off & protrude, since their is no make of threadlocker that works in "poly". Unless, of course, you stand the bare system out in the salt air until the counter sunk ss fasteners cause the aluminum tube to corrode them into immovable sources of white jello. And the tube itself is bare aluminum, so it too will soon have a corroded surface, just what you want rubbing against a tightly reefed headsail.

PERFECT!!

Being fully suported on the luff instead of point loaded by hankl the load on the halyard is greatly reduced

 

 

clearly you don't understand even basic physics. how do vectors work again?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

There is no upper swivel, as I clearly stated.It is just a block, bolted or welded to the top of the extrusion ,like on the simplicity rig.You hoist the sail on its 1/8th inch wire halyard, then take the rope tail off, and shackle the end of the halyard to the drum.Then you tighten the luff with a few turns around the tack of the sail, thru a stainless shackle on the drum, to give you purchase.Then the works, halyard and all, rotates around the stay. From that point on, you have only one moving part.

 

Cut two 14 inch diameter 3/16t inch aluminium plate discs. Centre a 4 inch length of six inch aluminium pipe on it. Temporarily bolt them together and have it welded. Smooth all edges off with a file. That is your drum.

 

For spacers run a hole saw, which makes plugs the inside diameter of your pipe ,partway thru a piece of 3/4 inch poly sheet. Then run a half inch drill right thru where your luff rope goes..Then run a forestay diameter, plus 1/16th inch for clearance, diameter drill, in the centre right thru, for your forestay.Then hole saw out the rest of the plug. Hold it in the pipe extrusion with 3 flat head counter sunk ss screws per spacer, every 2 feet.

 

Don't get much clearer than that.

 

Edit didn't work . Tried the correction many times, but when I hit "Save" it was still there. Gave up.

 

I wrote an article for Pacific Yachting in the early 80s on my furler , when Paul Burkhart was editor. Don't know if it was archived. Lots of them sprung up after that. That was with two pipes. I went for the single pipe since then.

 

ya know, you posted basically this exact same thing a ways back up the page. wasn't interested then, which I mentioned and I'm still not interested now. do I need to say it in a different language? perhaps draw a picture? you remind of the tallship sailors who think you need to sail with square sails beceause it's older and supposedly simpler and therefore better and need to wear a rigging knife and marlin spike and not bathe to be a "real sailor"

 

Chill out maybe. You might not be interested but others are. Millar had Crosby everywhere - many not easy miles - and if it had this rig that's saying something. If you knew who he (Millar) was its a bit silly to compare him to a tallship sailor. I would wager there is a very good chance he has 10-100X more miles under his keel than you do and likely more miles sailing without any keel at all. Have you met him? Have you seen the boat? Dang, when did this place turn into white bread, follow the beaten path, cocktail and dock cruising, hero worship anarchy?

 

Steve Mllar has more miles under him than almost all my critics combined , most whom have the same thing in common, almost zero steelboat experience , or long term cruising experience of any kind. Bob has almost none

 

 

yet again, no one is calling millar's credibility into question, it's yours. and who gives a fuck about whether the boat is steel or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, how does a simple question about a furler turn into a sh*t fight. Only on SA.

 

Hawaiian - If you really do know and respect Millar (as you claim) and the boat and what its done, and it did it with this furler, does that not suggest anything to you?

 

Bob - No clue how or why a question re a furler set you off again and don't care frankly. And yes, I get the grandpa thing. It was a joke.

 

Peace out all. Dang!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing "set me off: Wess. It appears that you are the cranky one here. The thread was fine until you showed up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, how does a simple question about a furler turn into a sh*t fight. Only on SA.

 

Hawaiian - If you really do know and respect Millar (as you claim) and the boat and what its done, and it did it with this furler, does that not suggest anything to you?

 

Bob - No clue how or why a question re a furler set you off again and don't care frankly. And yes, I get the grandpa thing. It was a joke.

 

Peace out all. Dang!

 

is reading comprehension honestly that difficult? I have no dig with millar (as I posted above) it's BS and his never ending train of "it needs to be cheap and homemade to be any good" bullshit that I have an issue with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still is from my perspective Bob. Try the ignore function if you are bothered by my asking somebody else about a furler you have nothing to do with. Or HTFU. I'm good either way. :wacko:

 

Hawaiian - I have no interest to attack or defend BS. Never met the man. My point is that a boat and skipper we both apparently know sailed many hard miles apparently with a BS furler; something I did not know. So I am curious to know more about the furler. No desire or intent to offend anyone regardless of anyone's level of comprehension.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your advice Wess. But I don't need it. Time to untwist those knickers.

Sounds like both belong in the Get the Last Word In YC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Get any closer to making a decision yet Nate? Or has BS convinced you to make one yourself behind someones house....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Sounds like both belong in the Get the Last Word In YC.

 

 

From what I've seen of sailors, they must have a twenty-year waiting list. <_<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Get any closer to making a decision yet Nate? Or has BS convinced you to make one yourself behind someones house....

 

actually BS has convinced me that steel and caveman simple is the way to go. I'm just gonna use some galvanized pipe and an old coffee can. clearly thats better than anything else on the planet. BS says so therefore it MUST be true. I'm going with a selden. suck my nuts BS.. thousands of happy customers sailing around the world with the various commercial furlers. and in 17 years of sailing I've never run across one of your bullshit homemade hack jobs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frozen:

I recommend an Italian coffee can. They are heavier gauge than the American variety. Lavazza would be good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frozen:

I recommend an Italian coffee can. They are heavier gauge than the American variety. Lavazza would be good.

good to know, thanks. and I'm thinking schedule 80 extra strong pipe for the extrusion, everyone knows the heavier the better and that weight aloft is a GOOD thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Frozen:

I recommend an Italian coffee can. They are heavier gauge than the American variety. Lavazza would be good.

good to know, thanks. and I'm thinking schedule 80 extra strong pipe for the extrusion, everyone knows the heavier the better and that weight aloft is a GOOD thing.
Old iron water pipe that a local government is throwing away is your best bet. Modern steel tube is a scam and anyone who uses it is a mouth breathing troglodyte with bad hair.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever you do get one with a tack swivel. Keeps a good shape when partly furled without needing foam in the luff.

 

Try one of these, amazingly well built, sailed aroiund the world non-stop with no hassles

http://www.almasts.com.au/furling-systems/

Nice bit of kit. I especially like the "can get at it easily" design.

I have had one of these Furlexs on my old woody for the past 14 years and had no problems at all.

IbmYnW7.jpg

Serviced regularly and as a ex hardcore drug user I have a rather extensive collection of syringes which are just simply great for squeezing in appropriate amounts of waterproof grease amongst all those tiny ball bearings that BS deems a hazard to the cruising community world wide.

Your best friend when attempting to disassemble and reassemble the unit is a umbrella slung beneath the bow.

Brent if your $80.00 kit anyway resembles your windlass I will stick with my Furlex thank you very much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

good to know, thanks. and I'm thinking schedule 80 extra strong pipe for the extrusion, everyone knows the heavier the better and that weight aloft is a GOOD thing.

 

Just as an aside, I notice vendors list shipping weights on many of these furling units (ProFurl, Hood, Schaeffer) at around 65lbs. Is that the actual weight of a mid-size furler complete, or is that 'dimensional weight' used by UPS/FedEx for freight rate purposes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just as an aside, I notice vendors list shipping weights on many of these furling units (ProFurl, Hood, Schaeffer) at around 65lbs. Is that the actual weight of a mid-size furler complete, or is that 'dimensional weight' used by UPS/FedEx for freight rate purposes?

Sounds about right for a Profurl or Schaeffer, but maybe a little heavy for a Hood. Definitely heavy for Harken, Selden or Facnor. I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Sounds about right for a Profurl or Schaeffer, but maybe a little heavy for a Hood. Definitely heavy for Harken, Selden or Facnor. I think.

Defender lists Harken MKIV Unit 1 at 31# shipping wt, Unit 2 at 90#. Their ESP line Unit 2 is 40#, Unit 3 90#. Schaeffer's 2100 (30-42' boats) lists at 68#, and the 3100 (41'+) is 110#.

 

Which suggests much of the weight is in the extrusions? And therefore aloft? In which case anyone who really cares about weight aloft should probably forgo the Commercial v. Juice Can shitfight and choose a laminate sail with soft hanks -- naja?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sigh, it was so nice around here without your bullshit for a few days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear Kim's looking for carbon fiber/epoxy projects AND since he's retired now he can be the WLYDO's R&D go to guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear Kim's looking for carbon fiber/epoxy projects AND since he's retired now he can be the WLYDO's R&D go to guy.

LOL!

 

I could use a WLYDO project! Work is being very boring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nobody gives any love to the ProFurl... I'm on my first one (furler and PF).

 

Mine came with the boat, presumably 24 years ago when the boat was built. I think it's original, so did the rigger. The geniuses at Catana have in the past and I believe still do not install a toggle for the forestay. Therefore was a lot of odd loading on the furler which over the years damn near, but did NOT, kill it.

 

When I bought boat I had furler rebuilt, apparently you can do that with PF (btw I installed a forestay toggle). The furler is working, four years into my purchase/rebuild.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it one of the 1990s yellow ones ? They seem to last forever, there are still plenty around which look like to be from this era. Earlier designs were really bad compared to these.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Max I wouldn't be surprised at all that it is there from new. I seem to remember that some of those (or at least looking like those) finished the Vendée Globe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no one gives a fuck about you BS. go away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please show me where I even mentioned "bearings". You are delusional again BS. You have a disconnect with reality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no one gives a fuck about you BS. go away.

 

And no one gives a fuck about you or disgusting assholes like 'The Advocate' who think posting a photo of hitler is clever so just STFU, eh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites