Recommended Posts

I'm still trying to figure out why the sole needs to be screwed down and have latches... Maybe I missed something but the screws seem unnecessary. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, cameron said:

I'm still trying to figure out why the sole needs to be screwed down and have latches... Maybe I missed something but the screws seem unnecessary. 

Wait, grasshopper. Next we glue the sole down with 5200 and out of date plum sauce.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, cameron said:

I'm still trying to figure out why the sole needs to be screwed down and have latches... Maybe I missed something but the screws seem unnecessary. 

Talk to someone who was below in a boat when it capsized.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not even capsized, just broached badly enough to put the spreaders in the water....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, cameron said:

I'm still trying to figure out why the sole needs to be screwed down and have latches... Maybe I missed something but the screws seem unnecessary. 

Cam-

The large, main sections of the sole are screwed down.  The latches were only for the removable bilge boards.

Right now, I'm not even installing the latches. I remove the bilge boards with suction cup.  Sloop and Crash make good points, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, debonAir said:

Wow, this thread has morphed from "Ajax spiffs up a T33" to "I can't keep up with all the good ideas in here. Stop or I'll be more broke!".  The red-light thing is a fantastic idea. I thought my key-chain light was the final answer until I left my keys somewhere on the nav table once and came back to find them... at night.  Of course someone would probably mess with the switch during the daytime and I'd forget to turn them off and drain my battery, in which case LEDs would be nice, or a timed-on type switch too?

I am shopping for a solar panel now.  I hope to strap it to my shrink-wrap on the sunny side of the boat to make sure my batteries are charged for launch. After launch I want it to go on top of the dodger probably, so wanting a flexible type.   I think Ajax you put a rigid type off the pushpit?  Any ideas how many watts I'd want (I am thinking 100W).  Also, how do I charge 2 batteries? Do I need a special controller, 2 controllers, or just wire both batts?

 

 

 

Deb-

No, I bought a 125w, flexible, Solbian panel.  I designed a light, custom aluminum frame for it and had a local welder fabricate it for me. Next, I bought a sheet of twin wall, polycarbonate sheeting and mounted it to the aluminum frame, then I mounted the solar panel on top of that.  So it's sort of a sandwich-  solar panel/polycarb sheet/aluminum frame.  This arrangement is still many pounds lighter than a rigid panel and very easy to remove and stow.  What's with the polycarb sheeting?  It adds rigidity to the panel with negligible weight and the twin walls allow cooling air to circulate under the panel during hot times.

Charging 2 batteries:

I don't have a special controller. I just bought an appropriately sized Victron Blue Solar MPPT controller. The MPPT type gets more power out of the panel than the old PWM type, and the cost difference is becoming negligible.

The easy/lazy way to charge your house and start battery at the same time, is to simply set your main battery switch to "BOTH."  The battery connected to the panel will push into the other battery if it's lower than the battery connected to the panel.  However... you should really have identical batteries if you do this, and of the same age.  Batteries of different capacities and ages have a tendency to discharge into each other. If the solar panel isn't constantly pushing power into the batteries, then one of them could bleed into the other.  You also need to ensure that you don't have any parasitic loads when the main battery switch is on.

Another way that I charge both batteries (but not at the same time),  is I installed a simple 3-way rocker switch rated for 20 amps.  I labeled it HOUSE/OFF/START.  Every so often, I visit the boat and toggle the switch over to the starting battery for a week or so, to let the panel give it a boost.

What size panel?

100w is a bit overkill for just a battery tender.  30-50w is great for a tender that minds a simple, 2 battery setup.  100w or more, is good for tending large boats with large banks and complex systems or for smaller boats (25-35') that are cruising.  Depends on what systems you have.

Without the fridge, 125w is actually overkill for my boat.  With the fridge, 125w isn't quite enough. I'd be better served with one more 125w panel and a Firefly house battery.  That one item is a real hog.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ajax said:

Without the fridge, 125w is actually overkill for my boat.  With the fridge, 125w isn't quite enough. I'd be better served with one more 125w panel and a Firefly house battery.  That one item is a real hog.

125w should be able to keep up with the fridge.  I have a 50w panel and a Firefly battery and that is enough to extend my cruising range from 2-3 days to 4-6 days with the fridge during summer cruising.  Sometime I'll add another 50w panel.  Maybe there are improvements that you can give to your insulation?  I do know that you have warmer summer days than we do and that'll make some difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Alex W said:

125w should be able to keep up with the fridge.  I have a 50w panel and a Firefly battery and that is enough to extend my cruising range from 2-3 days to 4-6 days with the fridge during summer cruising.  Sometime I'll add another 50w panel.  Maybe there are improvements that you can give to your insulation?  I do know that you have warmer summer days than we do and that'll make some difference.

I meant that it can't keep up "indefinitely."   With enough sun, the single panel keeps me cruising for about a week. A firefly battery would make it even better. I plan on upgrading the battery before adding an additional panel to see what happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I was saying that I'm pretty sure 100 watts would let me go indefinitely.  I was able to do that with my old boat with 80 watts of panels (a 50 and a 30).

Icebox insulation and external temp obviously are big variables boat to boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Alex W said:

Yeah, I was saying that I'm pretty sure 100 watts would let me go indefinitely.  I was able to do that with my old boat with 80 watts of panels (a 50 and a 30).

Icebox insulation and external temp obviously are big variables boat to boat.

Well, it is an old icebox...but it's better than what the Pearson 30 had and it's not up against the engine.  Our summers are much hotter than yours, and the water temp gets up to 90F.  To top it off, my "fridge" is an old, Adler-Barbour Cold Machine, so it's probably not very efficient but it works perfectly, so I'm not replacing it until it dies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wasn't thinking about water temps.  90F would make a big difference, our water is about 50F year round.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Alex W said:

Yeah, I was saying that I'm pretty sure 100 watts would let me go indefinitely.  I was able to do that with my old boat with 80 watts of panels (a 50 and a 30).

Icebox insulation and external temp obviously are big variables boat to boat.

Water temp is huge. I took a boat to the Salish from the Chesapeake. In the Bay, ice for the ice box was a big issue. Lasted forever in the Salish Sea. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks All.  I am going with 100w so I can run a radar/gps and autopilot all day w/o worrying about using the starting battery. I have two group 31 AGMs to maintain, not sure yet how long one will go as a house battery, probably a few days? (buying the radar will be the next step :) ) 

My boat had a fridge/freezer compressor which was broken when I bought the boat.  I usually put a couple gallons of frozen spring water in the oce box and am good for a few days and then have drinking water.  For those with working fridge compressors... is it worth the effort?  battery drain, etc. to not lug ice around?  I am debating fixing it in a few years. Worth the expense?

Most of my sailing is in water at 54-60 degrees

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you'll need more solar for those loads. As for the fridge...only you can decide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two months ago I changed out the controller that the PO had fitted in my boat. He had the engine battery being topped off by an ancient Rutland windgen that I removed. The two rigid solar panels (120W nominal, total) now keep house and engine topped off via one of these: https://www.morningstarcorp.com/products/sunsaver-duo/

Not MPPT, but more than adequate for my needs. Was easy to acquire here: http://a.co/3H9XOfn  Seems well made, and so far it has functioned as advertised.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There used to be a significant cost difference between PWM and MPPT. Now, they cost about the same:

https://www.emarineinc.com/Victron-Energy-BlueSolar-MPPT-Charge-Controller-75-15

Anyway, I'm not knocking your choice. It's all good.  Teak trim battens will arrive on Tuesday. It's supposed to rain all weekend, so sounds like a good time to go down to the boat and chisel out that last section under the ladder.  I *think* I can get away with purchasing 1/4 sheet of the 1/4" teak and holly ply, so I'll try to hit Exotic Lumber after work today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure. I did research the subject before making a choice. Only posted because of debonAir's question.

The point I was making is that the Morningstar is one of the few - if not the only - small controller that can properly charge two independent batteries from a single solar panel or array.

Down here there's no shortage of sunlight, so the extra efficiency of the MPPT controllers isn't as much of an advantage, especially for my low power demands (no fridge or other power hogs other than a radar that I don't use).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys make good points.

I will say that in my environment, I experience plenty of sunshine shortages, and I spend a lot of time in "bulk" phase when out cruising.  I do like the Morningstar's ability to independently charge 2 batteries. That's a valuable feature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, the teak battens for trim have arrived. It's interesting how the color of the wood varies depending on the source.  These battens are a darker color that doesn't require any staining or varnish.  All the rest of my cabin wood is just oiled and/or stained, only the sole was ever varnished, so I'm not varnishing this trim. I'm just going to oil it, cut it and install it.

On the topic of installation,  the port settee is not a perfect rectangle. It tapers inward to accommodate the passageway into the head at an angle of 15-20 degrees, so I'll have to miter cut two pieces.  I bought a T-bevel to copy and transfer the angle.  I have a miter box to hand-saw the pieces or, I have one of those power miter chop-saws.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, good progress.

After experiencing a bout of "carpenter's block" I got some advice from a friend and from a fellow on Bookface who has gutted and rehab'd a T-33.  The battens were 3" wide, which is really more than I need, so I ripped them in half, giving me twice the material to work with, and giving the trim a flat base to rest on the sole and a rounded top edge for cosmetics.

Lots of fiddling with the t-bevel and compound miter saw. Oiled up the wood. I'm replacing the black screws with bronze.  Pardon the dust and crap from the demolition.

stbdtrim.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a close-up of this damned wedge on the port, forward side. It curves with the hull, so all 3D and craziness.

I had to plane it down a bit to fit flush with the main section. I'll epoxy the underside and edges tonight and put it back tomorrow, and install the last piece of trim where the wedge lives.

wedge.jpg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm also attaching a picture of my justification for being less than perfect. The second photo is a cabin trim joint that is mismatched from the Tartan factory.  If they aren't perfect, then neither will I be.

factory_flaw.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Here is the final product. I declare it "good enough."

sole&trim.jpg

The only "flaw" I can see is the alignment mismatch of the holly lines on the two middle panels, but that was after looking at it for a while. I'd call it good enough myself and if it ever started bugging me, I'd lay a small rug over the joint!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice!  Your ONLY issue with the job you did is it's too good looking.  Makes all the original teak around it look not as good ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I flip that aft bilge board end for end, the holly stripes line up. :)

If I oil the rest of the cabin wood, it'll look a lot better. I oil it once or twice per year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what's next for the T-33?

First, I bought an anchor that is probably too big-  A 35lb. Manson Boss from Defender's spring sale for $109.00.  My buddy says it looks like I stole the hood ornament from a Klingon battlecruiser.  I have a 25 lb. Manson Supreme and it seemed too small. The Manson sizing guide kept recommending 35 lb. anchors, so I bought it, but I'm still scratching my head over the size. My roller easily holds the anchor and the boat came with a 40lb. Danforth for a storm anchor, so I don't think the Boss is too big...it's just friggin' WIDE.

Second, I scored a brand new water heater of the exact style and size that I've been searching for on Craigslist for $150.  I still haven't quite figured out how I'm going to remove the old water heater without screwing up the fridge compressor that is mounted on top of it, but at least I have the new water heater and didn't spend a fortune for it.

Next, I drilled a new wiring pass-through hole in my electronics locker.  Over the past two seasons, I've added a chart plotter (and accompanying GPS antenna), solar panels, VHF with AIS receiver (AIS feed run to the chart plotter) and installed a dedicated electric bilge pump (which this boat was not originally equipped with).  This resulted in a new, large bundle of wiring that wouldn't fit through any existing feed hole into the cabinet.  This tidied up everything considerably, and eliminated a pinch point where I had been running the wires.

Lastly, I found the main legs for a set of lazy jacks in a locker. The main is rather large for a boat of this size and taming the main is a bit of work when singlehanding. My buddy and I attempted to install them but they are about twice as long as they should be.

I suspect that the boat may have had "3-leg" lazy jacks and the primary legs (with the blocks) attached very high up the mast. There are eyes 7/8th of the way up, and eyes just below the spreaders.  Like this:

https://www.cruisingworld.com/photos/installing-lazy-jacks#page-2

What creeps me out about this installation, is that I have back swept spreaders and I do *not* want the lazy jacks to snag the spreaders during a gybe.  I've decided that I'm going to make shorter primary legs that attach to the eyes that exist just beneath the spreaders, and go with a 2-leg system. (2 legs descending from the primary legs, that is.)  Given where the eyes on the underside of the boom are located, I believe these two legs will still capture the main well enough when it's lowered.

My setup will look more like this:

https://theboatgalley.com/using-lazy-jacks/

Except that these folks are still above their first set of spreaders. They can get away with it though, because their spreaders are straight and less likely to snag.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/26/2018 at 10:01 AM, Ajax said:

If I flip that aft bilge board end for end, the holly stripes line up. :)

If I oil the rest of the cabin wood, it'll look a lot better. I oil it once or twice per year.

Ajax, you're doing wonders.

As to interior wood finishes, during my renovation, SloopJonB pointed me to Minwax Wipe-On Polyurethane Gloss, which I used, and which I am very happy with. My interior teak was kind of dried out and dirty. After cleaning it, I did a couple of applications of Watco Teak Oil, waited a few days, and then two or three coats of the Minwax stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Bull City said:

Ajax, you're doing wonders.

As to interior wood finishes, during my renovation, SloopJonB pointed me to Minwax Wipe-On Polyurethane Gloss, which I used, and which I am very happy with. My interior teak was kind of dried out and dirty. After cleaning it, I did a couple of applications of Watco Teak Oil, waited a few days, and then two or three coats of the Minwax stuff.

Is the Minwax a permanent finish once it's wiped on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ajax. I assume you know the rules for buying an anchor. 

Buy the biggest anchor you think you need.  Put it on the boat. If no one laughs at you then go and get the next bigger size. 

Following that philosophy, I now have a 45lbs Mantus decorating my IP31. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup, it's a polyurethane varnish. I swear by it too for interior wood. It's thin and has great self leveling properties so it looks sprayed on. Three coats and it'll look fantastic. After that, touchups in high wear areas are super fast. I'll never go back to oil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, IStream said:

Yup, it's a polyurethane varnish. I swear by it too for interior wood. It's thin and has great self leveling properties so it looks sprayed on. Three coats and it'll look fantastic. After that, touchups in high wear areas are super fast. I'll never go back to oil.

You guys, show me some pictures of your interior. I'm intrigued, but it's permanent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ajax said:

Is the Minwax a permanent finish once it's wiped on?

Yes, at least to the extent that a polyurethane varnish is permanent. I wanted to seal the wood once I had cleaned and oiled it. Even though it's a gloss product, the effect is not "glossy;" it's more hand-rubbed looking. Here's a pic:

5acb866791751_IMG_1999(1).thumb.jpg.f440547c22369e0bfd67fd3198a11612.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The nice thing about the Minwax wipe on poly is that it goes on like oil but it dries to a hard finish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

The nice thing about the Minwax wipe on poly is that it goes on like oil but it dries to a hard finish.

It's two mints in one! With a drop of Retsyn! (Mea culpa)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks nice finished that way too! 

My old woodie has satin varnished mahogany interior and is much easier to maintain than the Catalina 42 which I’ve been using lemon oil on for a while.

Time to switch it up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to belabour the obvious but get that lemon oil off first.

I don't know if the Minwax will go on over it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Looks nice finished that way too! 

My old woodie has satin varnished mahogany interior and is much easier to maintain than the Catalina 42 which I’ve been using lemon oil on for a while.

Time to switch it up

How many boats do you have?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ajax, I am using the Helmsman poly, which is also a Minwax product, and it looks great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's good stuff but a totally different kind of product - it's essentially a poly varnish and has to be applied like varnish.

The beauty of the wipe on is that it goes on like oil but gives an "almost varnish" hard finish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Bull City said:

How many boats do you have?

I listed them on the PNM thread last week. Got to get rid of a bunch...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea of the wipe-on Minwax but I'd definitely want to find an inconspicuous place to test it first because it's permanent.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to put a thread drift in. 

Let’s see...

Catalina 42’

46’ wood composite cutter 

34’ Morton Johnson hardtop sedan 

28’ Fareast28R 

26’ Morton Johnson catboat

26’ Crosby Curlew

22’ Ensign Classic 

22’ Larson Cabrio Sport mobo 

20’ Cape Cod Gauntlet

18’ Herreshoff Launch (ex America)

20’ Chris Craft model 100

11’9”Ellen (clinker)

11’ Boston Whaler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I like the idea of the wipe-on Minwax but I'd definitely want to find an inconspicuous place to test it first because it's permanent.

 

It's permanent in the sense that it would be difficult to go back to an oil finish but also in the sense that it looks great, will do so for a long, long time, and is super easy to apply/repair/renew. There's basically no downside that I've found and lots of upside to converting over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Sorry to put a thread drift in. 

Let’s see...

Catalina 42’

46’ wood composite cutter 

34’ Morton Johnson hardtop sedan 

28’ Fareast28R 

26’ Morton Johnson catboat

26’ Crosby Curlew

22’ Ensign Classic 

22’ Larson Cabrio Sport mobo 

20’ Cape Cod Gauntlet

18’ Herreshoff Launch (ex America)

20’ Chris Craft model 100

11’9”Ellen (clinker)

11’ Boston Whaler

Curious, if you could have only three, which ones?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Catalina, easy to maintain and operate

46’ cutter,  beautiful like Dorade

Cape Cod Gauntlet, it’s a Sydney Herreshoff design..

The Ellen is the tender for the cutter and the Ensign is being turbo’d right now for PHRF racing.

The Ensign, Fareast28R, Larson and Johnson mobos as well as the Curlew and the Johnson catboat for sale now and hopefully won’t be replaced.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Catalina, easy to maintain and operate

46’ cutter,  beautiful like Dorade

Cape Cod Gauntlet, it’s a Sydney Herreshoff design..

The Ellen is the tender for the cutter and the Ensign is being turbo’d right now for PHRF racing.

The Ensign, Fareast28R, Larson and Johnson mobos as well as the Curlew and the Johnson catboat for sale now and hopefully won’t be replaced.

 

That's four, but I'll cut you some slack since I did the same thing with your list. ;)

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't recommend General Finishes enough.  https://generalfinishes.com/ .  Any questions just call them up.  They have been featured in Fine Woodworking many times.

You can go with Oil or Water based topcoats.  I've used both for furniture I've made and boat projects (new nav station panel now with quarter sawn mahogany).

I've sprayed, brushed and wiped on and the wipe on is great.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Passport111 said:

I can't recommend General Finishes enough.  https://generalfinishes.com/ .  Any questions just call them up.  They have been featured in Fine Woodworking many times.

You can go with Oil or Water based topcoats.  I've used both for furniture I've made and boat projects (new nav station panel now with quarter sawn mahogany).

I've sprayed, brushed and wiped on and the wipe on is great.  

What are your opinions on water based topcoats in the marine environment? One poster said that their finish would get a milky color when it got wet.  I tend to go for oil based, for that reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't comment on other water based finishes, but I have used System Three's WR-LPU clear finish in several exterior, exposed applications and it's held up incredibly well. Mostly I have applied it over an epoxy layer, and in one case (a rowing boat interior) over a clear epoxy-glass layer. It's a bit temperature sensitive in that you don't want it to be too hot- it needs time to level. A cool, humid day is best. 

https://www.systemthree.com/products/wr-lpu-polyurethane-topcoat

https://www.amazon.com/System-Three-1801K16-Urethane-Coating/dp/B00BR2KN5M/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1523384272&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=system+three+clear+WR-LPU&psc=1

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Ajax said:

What are your opinions on water based topcoats in the marine environment? One poster said that their finish would get a milky color when it got wet.  I tend to go for oil based, for that reason.

I think it was BJ's son who said that the more toxic and environmentally unacceptable a finish is the better I like it - or words to that effect.

I generally agree. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Oceanconcepts said:

I can't comment on other water based finishes, but I have used System Three's WR-LPU clear finish in several exterior, exposed applications and it's held up incredibly well. Mostly I have applied it over an epoxy layer, and in one case (a rowing boat interior) over a clear epoxy-glass layer. It's a bit temperature sensitive in that you don't want it to be too hot- it needs time to level. A cool, humid day is best. 

https://www.systemthree.com/products/wr-lpu-polyurethane-topcoat

https://www.amazon.com/System-Three-1801K16-Urethane-Coating/dp/B00BR2KN5M/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1523384272&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=system+three+clear+WR-LPU&psc=1

I worked for a company that sold the System Three products, and for some applications they were fine. They did well when they coated a surface that didn't move a lot with weather/moisture changes. It cost a lot of money to cover the cost of redoing a large house where all the wood trim was done with the WR-LPU when the coating failed a few months after application. Down below it might not be such a problem, but I wouldn't do any exposed wood with that product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

16 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

I worked for a company that sold the System Three products, and for some applications they were fine. They did well when they coated a surface that didn't move a lot with weather/moisture changes. It cost a lot of money to cover the cost of redoing a large house where all the wood trim was done with the WR-LPU when the coating failed a few months after application. Down below it might not be such a problem, but I wouldn't do any exposed wood with that product.

Good point- It think almost everywhere I have used it in exterior applications it's been over epoxy or epoxy-glass coated surfaces, as a UV layer. It's probably not very good for surfaces where there is a lot of movement or moisture changes. House trim would be a prime example.  That said, I had that rowing boat uncovered on an open float for seven or eight years and the coating still looked good, not bad for a bright finish. But that was a hull that was fully encapsulated in epoxy and glass. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Ajax said:

What are your opinions on water based topcoats in the marine environment? One poster said that their finish would get a milky color when it got wet.  I tend to go for oil based, for that reason

I don't want to claim either way as I don't have a specific instance of the water based getting wet and discolored.  They say their water based urethane is "highly" water resistant but I have not personally put it to the test.  Their oil based is great too and I tend to agree with the others that in some ways you can't beat the harsh stuff.

That said, if you have the time, make a few samples.  You should do this anyway to test the application, number of coats, color, tone, sheen, etc. but if you have a few extra days do a little destructive testing e.g. get it wet.

You obviously want something durable in the marine environment but it is the interior so mostly you should be talking about humidity.  The beauty of the water based products is its so easy to apply, clean, and reapply if needed.  The tougher and more toxic a finish you put on the tougher and nastier the job will be if  you ever need to redo it or even just make repairs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 11:35 AM, Tom Scott said:

Hi Groundhog,

I'm not Ajax - but I thought I'd throw in my two cents since I used to race with a non-sailor crew.

 

Hope this helps.

Start

Sorry to bring up a year old post and detract from the Tartan restoration narrative.  Ran across this post yesterday.  I raced on "Fancy Free" back in the late 80's/early 90's on the Great Lakes (Port Huron and Chicago-Mac races) before the owner retired and moved to Florida and took a saw to the keel to adapt to the thin water down that way.  That modification may explain why she looks a bit tender in this photo.    She originally drew about 7-1/2 feet, which I gather is a bit much for most of Charlotte Harbor.

Now back to your regularly scheduled Tartan updates..........

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Polyurethane doesn’t breathe like varnish and can delaminate if subject to too much moisture and freeze that’s cycles. That’s one of the reasons you don’t use it on exterior brightwork.

A rub in urethane is fine on the interior.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/22/2018 at 7:31 AM, TwoLegged said:

Me too

Me three!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, he can come back any time.  I'm not on a hate-mission to "get" him. I just told him not to be so thin-skinned and he stomped off.

I'm sure if you search on Youtube, you can find new videos of his exploits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I need some refrigeration experts to advise me on this next project.

- Leaky water heater replacement.

- Interference- Adler-Barbour Cold Machine is mounted atop the old water heater.

I need to know if the copper tubing can tolerate any kind of careful bending so that I can move the compressor unit off of the top of the old water heater.  My reading indicates that these machines came pre-charged with freon and you broke a seal and pressurized the lines when you attached them to the compressor. They don't seem to be designed to be evacuated and recharged.

I think the best I can hope to do, is move the compressor forward (towards the engine) and slip the water heater out from under it. I *should* suspend or support the compressor unit to prevent excessive motion or bending of the copper tubing. Any ideas how I might achieve that?

Then, after I slip the water heater over into the cockpit locker, I'll need to saw it in half in order to pass it out of the hatch.  (I'd have to deconstruct too much engine and electrical stuff to remove it whole, the way Tartan installed it.)

Sorry for the shaky photo, it's cramped down there. You can see the compressor on the left, and the amount of space I have to work with in the middle, and some of the engine on the right.

What do you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The A/D copper tubing is pretty soft, they know that installation requires a fair bit of bending. It can be bent down to about 4" dia turns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is probably waay too late, but tung oil is an awesome finish.  Hand rub that shit in.  My dining room table has it and so does all the joinery I've redone in by boat's interior.  It looks great and you can rub out and re apply anything.  Not sure about stuff that's being walked on but i'm sure it holds up.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/28/2018 at 10:43 AM, longy said:

The A/D copper tubing is pretty soft, they know that installation requires a fair bit of bending. It can be bent down to about 4" dia turns.

What I don't like, is bending it one way, then bending it back. I don't want to "work" the tubing.

I will be so pissed off if I damage one system while repairing another.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don’t see a photo...

Moving the unit once or twice shouldn’t “work” the tube unduly, as long as it’s not kinked.  I’m too cheap to buy HP pigtails for my shop, so all the gas regulators just hang from pieces of 1/4” copper tubing between the valve panel and the tanks.  It flexes every time I change a tank.  It’s been fine that way for 20 years...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't look too bad. No tight radii and it looks like you've got a couple feet of tubing length before it goes through the bulkhead, so you've got some slack. I think the main danger would be kinking at the bulkhead. I would suspend it if you can (tiewraps fastened above would work). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, with a little work you could put a copper coil inside the new water tank and pass the compressor's output through the tank and make one of those newfangled heat-pump water heaters :)  Might take all day to warm up.

I think you'll be fine lifting that a few inches. Plenty of run of tube, and it's annealed (soft) too so can take a lot of bending. Not sure how you're gonna fit the new tank in though. Do they make bladder style tanks?  Maybe a foam bellows kind of thing that could expand once in place.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  You've got a unit trying to shed heat stacked above/close to two other things radiating lots of heat?? Is there ANY other location for that reefer unit??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, longy said:

  You've got a unit trying to shed heat stacked above/close to two other things radiating lots of heat?? Is there ANY other location for that reefer unit??

What s/he said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand where you guys are going with this and it turns out that there's a good reason for it.

The installation instructions state that you *must* have a run of X number of feet of tubing at a minimum, and the excess cannot be coiled up on top of itself. You can't just shorten or coil the tubing and mount the compressor right next to the icebox.

And... I hate to say it, but on top of the water heater is a safe, high, dry spot to mount an electrically driven, controlled compressor.  The water heater is insulated and the exterior is never warm to the touch. You are correct that the engine heats up the space though, which is counterproductive to the fridge compressor, but it is a sailboat after all, and I'm pretty thrifty about running the engine. I really try not to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm... you can't coil the excess tubing, but you can lay it out on a bulkhead or the overhead in , like a broad WW shape (with curves instead of points). Or, IIRC, adjust the amount of coolant, but that gets a little tricky.  

As it happens, my solution for the fridge/water heater stack has floated to the top of my desk.  (Trying to organize my notebooks / random piles of engineers pads.)

If this doesn't make any sense, the idea is to make like an equipment rack, so that nothing is stacked directly on anything else, and each unit can be removed for maintenance without disturbing the others.  Also should create quite a bit of storage cubby space to secure the random stuff floating around in the sail locker.  But my water heater is square, so more easily racked.  (I think I was trying to work it out so that milk crates would slot into the open spaces, but don't seem to have quite the right shape for that.)  

image.png.bac671fcb56c05cd18504f84e2256bca.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are concerned about bending the tube and loosing the charge any ACR person can cut the lines and install service valves with little effort.

With the age of your refer unit a good service is not a bad idea.  I tried to copy a link but my phone would not let me for some reason.  Google ACR schrader valves and you will see several styles that are easy retrofits.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, they do make screw-on adapters specifically for converting the bayonet-style machines to quick-disconnects, but they are not cheap.  Another complication I ran into is that they made these cold machines with different size QD's over the years, and the ones on mine are pretty much impossible to source.  By the time I assembled enough fittings to connect my mis-matched bargain parts, it totally negated the bargain.  I should have just used swageloc fittings that I already had in stock and charged the system in situ.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, @Little Wood Boays.  I'll have to see if there are any traveling ACR techs or if they are in a place where I can move the boat closer to them.  This will be my backup plan if I end up breaking a line and losing the charge. 

You're right that the unit is old, but it works perfectly and gets plenty cold, even on hot, Chesapeake summer days.  As with any fridge or freezer, the trick is to fill all the empty space for maximum efficiency. If I'm not filling it with food, I'm assisting the unit with ice. It keeps a bin full of meat frozen with no problem.  That's why I'm so loathe to mess with it.

But... we want hot water.  It really extends our sailing season.  Hence, the juggling act with the compressor and the water heater.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites