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I’ve seen bypasses installed, usually for use when the potable water system is decommissioned during frostbite sailing. Never saw the logic on the Chesapeake. I bypass the potable water side to minimize antifreeze use during the winter as I have a 12 gallon HWH plus 4 water tanks draining and winterizing the HWH separately saves a lot of the pink stuff. 

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Is it not sufficient to simply drain the water heater into the bilge and leave the valves open?

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36 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Is it not sufficient to simply drain the water heater into the bilge and leave the valves open?

That works. Isolating it allows me to flush the cold water side and then back flush the hot water distribution lines. My system T’s supply to the hot water tank with a back flow preventer and the cold water line feed. That means as I flush each tank, the residual water in the lines feeds into the HW tank as well as the supply lines. Isolating the HW tank prevents that waste. I drain the HW tank and flush the CW supply lines and then backflush to HW lines from forward to aft and drain the residual from the HW tank and leave it open for the winter. 

With 4 water tanks, 2 heads and 3 showers (including transom) it saves about 6-7 gallons of antifreeze. 

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On 4/22/2018 at 7:31 AM, TwoLegged said:
1 hour ago, Ajax said:

Is it not sufficient to simply drain the water heater into the bilge and leave the valves open?

To winterize mine I pull both fresh water hoses off the heater and connect them together.  The HW heater gets drained into the bilge.  The hoses are flushed with pink stuff as part of the winterizing opf the rest of the fresh water system.

If the coolant ever started leaking  in the water heater circuit, I'd use a short piece of hose to connect the two fittings on the engine which feed the HW heater.

 

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I learned a slightly painful lesson today.

While sailing yesterday, I looked up and observed a small hole in my mainsail, forward of the 2nd batten pocket. Upon detailed inspection back at the dock, I saw that the batten tip had chafed clean through the pocket, and then proceeded chafe a hole through the mainsail.

I took the main down and brought it home for patching. When I removed the batten, I observed that the batten is tapered. Like a fool, I put the thin, sharper end into the sail instead of the thicker, more blunt end. The push-in, velcro closure is easily strong enough to endure the chafe of the thin end of the batten.  I'll pull all the battens and make sure they're inserted in the proper direction.  The holes aren't large, and are easily repairable. Some 3M 5200, sail repair tape and sewing the patches on in a belt/suspenders/zippers and buttons approach.

The sail is old but the shape is surprisingly serviceable. Even so, I submitted some quote requests from two lofts this morning.  I guess that Firefly battery is going to have to wait.  I really don't want to go down the "used sail" route again. The genoa is new, so the main should match.

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8 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I learned a slightly painful lesson today.

While sailing yesterday, I looked up and observed a small hole in my mainsail, forward of the 2nd batten pocket. Upon detailed inspection back at the dock, I saw that the batten tip had chafed clean through the pocket, and then proceeded chafe a hole through the mainsail.

I took the main down and brought it home for patching. When I removed the batten, I observed that the batten is tapered. Like a fool, I put the thin, sharper end into the sail instead of the thicker, more blunt end. The push-in, velcro closure is easily strong enough to endure the chafe of the thin end of the batten.  I'll pull all the battens and make sure they're inserted in the proper direction.  The holes aren't large, and are easily repairable. Some 3M 5200, sail repair tape and sewing the patches on in a belt/suspenders/zippers and buttons approach.

The sail is old but the shape is surprisingly serviceable. Even so, I submitted some quote requests from two lofts this morning.  I guess that Firefly battery is going to have to wait.  I really don't want to go down the "used sail" route again. The genoa is new, so the main should match.

The thin end of my tapered battens go in forward; it's a full-batten main, but I think the principles are the same. I do have hefty batten receivers on the luff that are never going to chafe.

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Hmm...that's interesting. Maybe they're supposed go in thin-first and this was just wear and tear on an old sail. I thought I did it wrong.

I sewed a new zipper into my sail cover and some minor re-stitching last night. Nothing like a 40+ year old Sears Kenmore sewing machine. That thing is tough!

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Yes, thin-end goes in first. Think about where you want more vs. less curve.  Usually you'll have a cap or some type of protector around the ends, or, for some full-batten sails some type of receiver/socket. Even some tape wrapped around the sharp bits is better than nothing. 

Hard to find a used sail worth spending money on unless its from a hurricane victim. Maybe for a storm sail or cruising chute or other less-used cloth but NOT a main, and especially not for a fractional rig like yours where you get a lot of your power from the main and main shape counts a lot more than with us mast head genoa folks.

 

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Probably a redundant question but did the batten have an end cap on it?

 

Image result for batten end caps

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13 minutes ago, py26129 said:

Probably a redundant question but did the batten have an end cap on it?

 

Image result for batten end caps

No. None of the battens came with end caps. Good point. I'll check with the local shop to see if they have any that will fit. If not, I'll pad the tips with duct tape or something.

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Maybe not duct tape, that falls apart pretty quickly. A sacrificial fabric sleeve to prevent chafe, or Rescue tape, which has many uses. 

https://www.amazon.com/Rescue-Tape-Self-fusing-Silicone-Clamshell/dp/B001JT0ET8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1526319235&sr=8-3&keywords=rescue+tape+self-fusing+silicone+tape 

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I've always just sanded the end of battens roundy and smooth. The only ones with end caps that I've had were also the only ones I had problems with.

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19 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I've always just sanded the end of battens roundy and smooth. The only ones with end caps that I've had were also the only ones I had problems with.

Eh, it's not really sharp it's just thin. The root problem is just that the sail is old.  It'll be a great backup sail if I stop using it soon and replace it.

I have a $3200 quote for a tri-radial main. Loose foot, 2 full/2 partial battens, cunningham, 2 reefs, draft stripes, numbers, insignia. Challenge Newport Pro Radial cloth. 2 year warranty.  The price is inline with my expectations and this local sailmaker gave me top notch service when he made my genoa.

*Sigh*  Money.

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2 hours ago, Ajax said:

Eh, it's not really sharp it's just thin. The root problem is just that the sail is old.  It'll be a great backup sail if I stop using it soon and replace it.

I have a $3200 quote for a tri-radial main. Loose foot, 2 full/2 partial battens, cunningham, 2 reefs, draft stripes, numbers, insignia. Challenge Newport Pro Radial cloth. 2 year warranty.  The price is inline with my expectations and this local sailmaker gave me top notch service when he made my genoa.

*Sigh*  Money.

I’d make sure those are tapered epoxy battens as a suggestion. Make a big difference, particularly for the full ones. 2 reefs is good given your coastal/offshore aspirations. For just the Chesapeake, one deep reef is usually sufficient. Outside of severe squalls that are normally short and violent. Outside of that, how many times do you expect to be down to 2 reefs and a jib?

 

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46 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

I’d make sure those are tapered epoxy battens as a suggestion. Make a big difference, particularly for the full ones. 2 reefs is good given your coastal/offshore aspirations. For just the Chesapeake, one deep reef is usually sufficient. Outside of severe squalls that are normally short and violent. Outside of that, how many times do you expect to be down to 2 reefs and a jib?

 

I don't know. :)  You know I have aspirations to travel outside the bay and I figured it would be less expense and hassle to have the 2nd reef added now, rather than later.  Hey, at least I didn't go full bluewater and request 3 reefs. ;)

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4 hours ago, Ajax said:

Eh, it's not really sharp it's just thin. The root problem is just that the sail is old.  It'll be a great backup sail if I stop using it soon and replace it.

I have a $3200 quote for a tri-radial main. Loose foot, 2 full/2 partial battens, cunningham, 2 reefs, draft stripes, numbers, insignia. Challenge Newport Pro Radial cloth. 2 year warranty.  The price is inline with my expectations and this local sailmaker gave me top notch service when he made my genoa.

*Sigh*  Money.

 

22 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I don't know. :) You know I have aspirations to travel outside the bay and I figured it would be less expense and hassle to have the 2nd reef added now, rather than later.  Hey, at least I didn't go full bluewater and request 3 reefs. ;)

Curious. Did you get a quote for 3Di? When I got quotes, the 3Di was cheaper than the tr-radial. Did you get normal depth reefs or do the 2 reefs that get the luff length of 3? 

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2 hours ago, Elegua said:

 

Curious. Did you get a quote for 3Di? When I got quotes, the 3Di was cheaper than the tr-radial. Did you get normal depth reefs or do the 2 reefs that get the luff length of 3? 

I sent a a quote request to North. Crickets so far.  2 normal reefs. 

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I have a similar sized main (P=39 E=12) and was going to buy a new main this spring and talked to North.  I wanted full-batten 8oz Dacron with 2 reefs (after 2 it might be time to furl it all in my opinion, or use a smaller jib).  Prices here include about +1000 for Dutchman system and Tides luff slides install.

Here's what I found: 

Cheapest: about $2000 for generic cross cut high-end main (challenge dacron, "offshore" weight)

North cross-cut (regular) about $3500

North Nordac 3Di about $6100 (yes almost double the cost)

I imagine a dracron tri-radial would be in the 4-5K range.

It isn't just the cloth you are buying. You are getting a lot of hardware and there is a lot of quality range in that. Doesn't matter to have 8.4oz challenge cloth and a cheap-ass head plate with only rivets.  You are also getting service and future service too. North has lofts all over and will support you with issues and reworks without shipping or a long drive.

That said, other non-boat things broke this spring that need more attention so sails are next year alas.

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Come to think of it, when I asked for quotes, the North guys didn't get back to me until months after I was already using my new sail.  I knew nothing about what features I wanted, so put myself in the hands of a local sailmaker with good reputation.  IIRC, he talked me out of full battens unless I also purchased a Tides Marine sail track system.  Which would have blown my meager budget.  He prophesied that with the kind of external track that I have, the forces on the battens would just chafe through, no matter how much they were protected.  

The plan was, I would retrofit to the Tides system at some point, and be ready by the time I needed a new sail.   Haven't done it yet.  Those boat-bucks don't seem to sit around for long...

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You know I probably would never have considered the tides track or the Dutchman had they not come with the boat. Now I'm a big fan. They make it possible to single hand a 35 foot boat. I can just uncleat the main halyard let go and the main just drops and flakes itself and won't fly off the boom.  Lazy Jacks would do similar but not the self flaking part as neatly I imagine. 

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

I sent a a quote request to North. Crickets so far.  2 normal reefs. 

That's not nice of them.

I went for the two deep reefs. We'll see how well it works. 

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I've always had great service from Will Keyworth at North in Annapolis and Kenny Saylor ( now retired)  in Hampton, but I've always just called them, so you might try that.  Same for Clarke Mckinney at Quantum in Solomons...

I think you come across as a more serious customer by calling.  I'd guess there are a lot of lookie-loos that ask for an online quote with no intention of every actually buying a sail...

But I'm old enough that I pre-date the internet, so there's that...

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On 5/15/2018 at 12:40 PM, Innocent Bystander said:

I’d make sure those are tapered epoxy battens as a suggestion. Make a big difference, particularly for the full ones. 2 reefs is good given your coastal/offshore aspirations. For just the Chesapeake, one deep reef is usually sufficient. Outside of severe squalls that are normally short and violent. Outside of that, how many times do you expect to be down to 2 reefs and a jib?

 

+1 what IB said, but I'd also just get a cross cut. Cruising boat dude..tri-radial dacon on a cruising boat does not compute to me. A cross cut might be 30-40% cheaper. Maybe I could justify it on a roller genoa since it is bigger and their might be a benefit from weight savings to justify the cost, but for a main, take the low road and get a cross cut. (I have a Quantum cross cut 2+2 made from Challenge 8oz-ish, that is going on 10 years old.) I try not to abuse my sails and it is holding up great. One reef at 20%, but I don't ever plan to take my 4KSB out of the Chesapeake.

and +1 what Crash said. I used to work for Clarke back in the days before the internet. 

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23 minutes ago, Hike, Bitches! said:
On 5/15/2018 at 12:40 PM, Innocent Bystander said:

I’d make sure those are tapered epoxy battens as a suggestion. Make a big difference, particularly for the full ones. 2 reefs is good given your coastal/offshore aspirations. For just the Chesapeake, one deep reef is usually sufficient. Outside of severe squalls that are normally short and violent. Outside of that, how many times do you expect to be down to 2 reefs and a jib?

 

+1 what IB said, but I'd also just get a cross cut. Cruising boat dude..tri-radial dacon on a cruising boat does not compute to me. A cross cut might be 30-40% cheaper. Maybe I could justify it on a roller genoa since it is bigger and their might be a benefit from weight savings to justify the cost, but for a main, take the low road and get a cross cut. (I have a Quantum cross cut 2+2 made from Challenge 8oz-ish, that is going on 10 years old.) I try not to abuse my sails and it is holding up great. One reef at 20%, but I don't ever plan to take my 4KSB out of the Chesapeake.

 and +1 what Crash said. I used to work for Clarke back in the days before the internet. 

Yeah, left out the crosscut for a main. The loads in a main really don’t require triradial in Dacron. 

Also recommend an oversized leech. For a cruising boat, I like to spec “as much as I can get without touching the backstay.” 

 

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I did obtain a quote for a crosscut main. The price difference was only $170.00!! That's not a typo.

Also, my sail plan is much more "main driven" so my main is going to see more loads than a high aspect ribbon-main on a mast head rig with big, overlapping genoas.  I do want more roach and I'll discuss that with the sailmaker.  I want to be careful about not causing any extra weather helm though. If I add a lot of roach, powering up the main, what is the risk of that?

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You are only adding a few square feet of area but significantly improving the airfoil so as long as you keep the draft forward, it should not impact your helm. 

$170?  Yeah. Go for the triradial. 

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Only $170? No brainer then. You're lucky! 

Go with as much roach as you feel comfortable flipping across the backstay in light air (chafe). You can trim out the excess weather helm. 

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Speaking of bigger headsails, I was recently gifted an assym in a sock. It was really for a 30 footer but my fractional rig makes the fore triangle a similar dimension to that boat.

It's a nice, clean chute with no numbers and no patches. Although we had no wind this weekend, I put it up for a test. It's only a tiny bit small, if at all.  I rigged the pole downhaul as the tack line to the anchor roller and simply ran the line back to the cockpit as per usual.  If the sailing conditions ever quit emulating Seattle, I might actually get to use it.

I also rigged up a TackRite boom brake.  This just slows down a gybe via friction, which is handy for a solo sailor in a frisky breeze.

Apparently this is what I do now. I don't sail anymore, I just add shit to the boat. :rolleyes:

 

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