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On 6/12/2020 at 5:58 PM, SloopJonB said:

Think you got enough faucets there Butch?

My favorite movie of all time!!!

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11 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Out of picture: Jergens hand creme, 2 quarts of Havoline 10W30, a large pizza from Domino's from sometime last year and 1/3 of a case of beer.

Forgot I was dealing with SA knuckleheads. Serves me right for taking a photo of the partially completed project.  Photo shows difference in formica color old vs. new.  And yes faucets are on order, should arrive Tuesday. 
 

The beer is in the frig, boat is kept neat and let’s see—- nope- didn’t not find your hand cream. 

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Ok, I'm moving ahead with the shaft log hose job:

- Haul out scheduled for late July

- Priced a Sigma Drive CV Joint/coupler at $575+ free shipping to my door

A PYI (R/D) universal split coupling and a damper disc worked out to be around $300-$400 with shipping. I figured $275 more for a superior, one-piece solution is worth it so I chose the Sigma Drive.

I know all the usual tricks for popping the shaft out of a one-piece coupling. If the usual methods fail, I am prepared to destroy the coupling by slicing it up with a 7 or 9 inch angle grinder. I'm betting that even a single cut all the way through will release enough tension to pop the shaft free, but I'm prepared to just cut it in half by flipping it over and making a second cut.  I scheduled a full week off from work for this job. I'll be angry if it really takes me that long.

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I don't know if this really counts as "refit" work but I upgraded to a Zeus 3 chart plotter right as my Raymarine C80 display failed. It's taken some getting used to, but the guys in Gear Anarchy have been very helpful.  B&G tech support, less so.   I got the necessary cable for AIS input to the plotter and got that working again.

Eventually, I'll buy the single piece depth/temp/speed transducer and a Triton display. This will replace the old Datamarine "Dart."   In my wet dreams, I'll add a Simrad radar someday.

The Zeus 3 came with C-Maps. I'm not sure I like them. I might purchase Navionics charts when the C-maps get old and need updating. The touchscreen on the Zeus is first-class, but the glass gets HOT to the touch in summer heat.

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54 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Ok, I'm moving ahead with the shaft log hose job:

- Haul out scheduled for late July

- Priced a Sigma Drive CV Joint/coupler at $575+ free shipping to my door

A PYI (R/D) universal split coupling and a damper disc worked out to be around $300-$400 with shipping. I figured $275 more for a superior, one-piece solution is worth it so I chose the Sigma Drive.

I know all the usual tricks for popping the shaft out of a one-piece coupling. If the usual methods fail, I am prepared to destroy the coupling by slicing it up with a 7 or 9 inch angle grinder. I'm betting that even a single cut all the way through will release enough tension to pop the shaft free, but I'm prepared to just cut it in half by flipping it over and making a second cut.  I scheduled a full week off from work for this job. I'll be angry if it really takes me that long.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know if this really counts as "refit" work but I upgraded to a Zeus 3 chart plotter right as my Raymarine C80 display failed. It's taken some getting used to, but the guys in Gear Anarchy have been very helpful.  B&G tech support, less so.   I got the necessary cable for AIS input to the plotter and got that working again.

Eventually, I'll buy the single piece depth/temp/speed transducer and a Triton display. This will replace the old Datamarine "Dart."   In my wet dreams, I'll add a Simrad radar someday.

The Zeus 3 came with C-Maps. I'm not sure I like them. I might purchase Navionics charts when the C-maps get old and need updating. The touchscreen on the Zeus is first-class, but the glass gets HOT to the touch in summer heat.

When you make the choice to cut the coupler with an angle grinder, make your first cut into the key. You will split the coupler, one side, without damaging the shaft. Don't start a fire!

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10 minutes ago, jhc said:

When you make the choice to cut the coupler with an angle grinder, make your first cut into the key. You will split the coupler, one side, without damaging the shaft. Don't start a fire!

Are you saying that the key will protect the shaft by preventing me from cutting into it?  That sounds smart.

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Having worked in that area in the Florida heat, it is rumored to be the equivalent of the 4th layer of hell.

 

Suggest going into cabin and removing the engine cover, replace ladder and then set-up a fan to blow air in.

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4 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Are you saying that the key will protect the shaft by preventing me from cutting into it?  That sounds smart.

That's right, you cut into the key, not the shaft, to finish your cut. Drive a cold chisel into the cut you made in the coupler, and done.  No need to cut the other side.

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2 minutes ago, Snore said:

Having worked in that area in the Florida heat, it is rumored to be the equivalent of the 4th layer of hell.

 

Suggest going into cabin and removing the engine cover, replace ladder and then set-up a fan to blow air in.

and a fire extinguisher...

Is that a gas engine?

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Just now, jhc said:

and a fire extinguisher...

Is that a gas engine?

they were built with the universal 5424 diesel...

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19 minutes ago, jhc said:

and a fire extinguisher...

Is that a gas engine?

Negative, I'm diesel.  Still, I plan to put a fire cloth over the fuel tank and cutting area.  I served on nuclear submarines. I know what it looks like when sparks get under things and catch fire.

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Here's the final test report on insulating my ice box with 1-inch, pink foam insulating board-

The water temperature is now 85F degrees. Air temperature has been in the 90F's. The icebox absolutely will keep meat frozen solid and the rest of the box at a safe, refrigeration temperature *without* ever adding supplemental ice. Of course, I had to set it to "max" but the solar panel and 2-battery house bank were able to keep up just fine...but the days were also optimal for solar production. A few hot, cloudy days would wreck my charging profile.

I call it a qualified success. I think I'll pull the pieces out and use them as templates and upgrade to 2-inch thick panels to further reduce power consumption. Since we use no ice, we're still ahead in volume. The panels were just cut to tight tolerances so they wedge against each other with no adhesives or Velcro. I've never had one pop out of place.

Funny thing- After we departed, we said "Oh shit, we have no ice for drinks!"

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5 hours ago, Ajax said:

Here's the final test report on insulating my ice box with 1-inch, pink foam insulating board-

The water temperature is now 85F degrees. Air temperature has been in the 90F's. The icebox absolutely will keep meat frozen solid and the rest of the box at a safe, refrigeration temperature *without* ever adding supplemental ice. Of course, I had to set it to "max" but the solar panel and 2-battery house bank were able to keep up just fine...but the days were also optimal for solar production. A few hot, cloudy days would wreck my charging profile.

I call it a qualified success. I think I'll pull the pieces out and use them as templates and upgrade to 2-inch thick panels to further reduce power consumption. Since we use no ice, we're still ahead in volume. The panels were just cut to tight tolerances so they wedge against each other with no adhesives or Velcro. I've never had one pop out of place.

Funny thing- After we departed, we said "Oh shit, we have no ice for drinks!"

We have ice cube trays in our freezer compartment. It was tricky finding small ones with covers, but we lucked out and found a couple cheap at a RV supply.

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Sigma Drive is here. I have all my parts lined up.  The shaft collar tripped me up for about 30 minutes. It was pressed into the bronze CV joint body just for shipping and the bolt holes weren't aligned for easy removal. I wasn't sure what I was looking at, at first.

Photo:

 

18596.thumb.jpeg.adc757b19dcc45e0051cb0867a2ece70.jpeg

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And a bit of humor about its origin:

 

 

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Sailing for 10 years now, still making rookie mistakes. They say God watches over fools and sailors. That means I get double protection.

Here's my shaft log hose. It actually had a split at the top. I missed this at initial purchase and at haul out last spring. I'm a tool. The old hose seems of a thin, inferior quality compared to Buck Algonquin.

I was triple fortunate-  Weeks of soaking the coupling allowed me to press the shaft out instead of attacking it with an angle grinder. It took me 5 hours of faffing about with various sockets, nuts, clevis pins etc to act as the center punch that pressed the shaft out, all while curled into a near-fetal position in 90F degree temps, in the engine bay. A small desktop fan perched on top of the engine kept me alive, as well as copious amounts of water.

Oh- The pinch bolt in the coupler was the rustiest, sketchiest part- The square head nearly sheared off, but I got it out. If that had happened, I would have added a full day's labor to slice it flush with a Dremel and then slowly drill it out, praying that I didn't drill too deep and hit the propeller shaft.

 

20200725_153847.jpg

20200725_153836.jpg

20200725_090633.jpg

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Kinda like my experience with my forestay toggle. It was hidden under the furler and during the survey we never took the sail off to inspect it. The surveyor told me I had to change a bunch of turnbuckles before he'd bless the rig anyway so we deferred the toggle inspection until then.

I had the rigger out as soon as I took possession of the boat and he took a peek. Turns out I was as close to dropping my rig as your hose was to sinking your boat. It was bad enough that the rigger kept it as a trophy for his office, with the caption, "Don't be this guy."

Anyway, congrats on the (relatively) painless de-coupling and your extreme good fortune with the hose.

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3 minutes ago, IStream said:

Kinda like my experience with my forestay toggle. It was hidden under the furler and during the survey we never took the sail off to inspect it. The surveyor told me I had to change a bunch of turnbuckles before he'd bless the rig anyway so we deferred the toggle inspection until then.

I had the rigger out as soon as I took possession of the boat and he took a peek. Turns out I was as close to dropping my rig as your hose was to sinking your boat. It was bad enough that the rigger kept it as a trophy for his office, with the caption, "Don't be this guy."

Anyway, congrats on the (relatively) painless de-coupling and your extreme good fortune with the hose.

What kind of furler?   Cripes,  now I'm going to break out my furler manual and review it! 

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

What kind of furler?   Cripes,  now I'm going to break out my furler manual and review it! 

You have a MKI right? The turnbuckle is integral and worth a close inspection. 

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Mine's a Schaefer 3100. 

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2 hours ago, IStream said:

Kinda like my experience with my forestay toggle. It was hidden under the furler and during the survey we never took the sail off to inspect it. The surveyor told me I had to change a bunch of turnbuckles before he'd bless the rig anyway so we deferred the toggle inspection until then.

I had the rigger out as soon as I took possession of the boat and he took a peek. Turns out I was as close to dropping my rig as your hose was to sinking your boat. It was bad enough that the rigger kept it as a trophy for his office, with the caption, "Don't be this guy."

Anyway, congrats on the (relatively) painless de-coupling and your extreme good fortune with the hose.

I bought my first keelboat, an Aphrodite 101, many years ago in partnership with a neighbor. We picked it up in Olympia, took a couple of leisurely days sailing to Seattle, much of it with the spinnaker up in great conditions.

We needed an in-water survey to get insurance. One of the first things the surveyor noticed was that the forestay toggle was loose, and the clevis pin had nothing to retain it and was partly backed out. No ring, no cotter pin. And no excuse of being hidden under a furler, the boat had hanked on sails and rod rigging. I'm more careful about checking things now. 

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1 minute ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Good; news on both the coupler and hose. 

I just discovered a few moments ago that I bought new hose that is one size too large. :angry:  I even put a caliper on the fiberglass log tube before I bought it. I guess I slipped or bumped the caliper when I removed it.

Well, no shortage of other things to do until the shops open on Monday.  In the meantime, I soaked the packing box in vinegar and it's shiny and ready for service.

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Looks like you got REAL lucky.  Also glad project is going well.

 

Suggestion- while you are back there- buy some cheap LED fixtures or LED strip lighting to light up the area aft of the engine.   I put 2 or 3 - 5’ runs of LED strips up and now the back area of my T-33 lights up like Times Square.  Makes checking transmission, shaft area, rudder area, cables, etc much easier.

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47 minutes ago, Snore said:

Looks like you got REAL lucky.  Also glad project is going well.

 

Suggestion- while you are back there- buy some cheap LED fixtures or LED strip lighting to light up the area aft of the engine.   I put 2 or 3 - 5’ runs of LED strips up and now the back area of my T-33 lights up like Times Square.  Makes checking transmission, shaft area, rudder area, cables, etc much easier.

I do have an overhead LED fixture. As you noted, it's still inadequate. I like your solution of LED strips.  The strips often terminate in bare wires. What did you use for a switching solution to turn them on and off?

Edit- Nevermind...looks like strips have come aways since I used them last.  These look like they'll fit the bill:

https://www.amazon.com/Nilight-TR-05-Waterproof-Splitter-Extension/dp/B07KXR799K/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=12v+led+strip+lights&qid=1595767614&sr=8-6

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The PO added a bare fuse panel in the lazarette.  Originally, it only fed the propane solenoid.  I have added fuses for the LEDS and then for the cockpit 12v (cigarette) plug.  The LED strips are controlled by a small toggle switch next to the fuses.  

 

As it is possible to leave the LEDs on and close the compartment, I am going to rewire the fuse panel to the DC sub panel that faces aft.  Then I know if all those switches are off, the fuse panel and notably the LEDs are off.

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

yes those would work, probably better than the bare LED strips I got 'back when'.

Sorry for the double post, was working on something else when I remembered your link

 

 

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I did the under-sole LED strip thing too. I went a little crazy with the project and back-lit my strainer to help the old eyes. The strips are controlled by a dedicated "mechanical lighting" breaker on my panel and I paralleled in an above-sole light so I'd realize when (not if) I left it on. 

large.1342272745_2018-09-0715_31_19.jpg.48e47c16e3972fd03f42f6957591a80a.jpg

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Nice pipes.

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Thanks. Priced to match.

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3 hours ago, Ajax said:

I do have an overhead LED fixture. As you noted, it's still inadequate. I like your solution of LED strips.  The strips often terminate in bare wires. What did you use for a switching solution to turn them on and off?

Edit- Nevermind...looks like strips have come aways since I used them last.  These look like they'll fit the bill:

https://www.amazon.com/Nilight-TR-05-Waterproof-Splitter-Extension/dp/B07KXR799K/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=12v+led+strip+lights&qid=1595767614&sr=8-6

I put in one of the ridged Dr Led light bars with an integral switch over my galley - best lighting related addition I've made. 

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95F degrees today. 

Everything is reassembled. It's a thing of beauty. Maine Sails' website was highly instructive,  as usual. Went with flax packing due to reports of corrosion with the gore graphite packing. 

I'll post photos tomorrow. 

I'm way ahead of schedule so I'll touch up the bottom paint and some cosmetics. 

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On 7/25/2020 at 2:26 PM, Ajax said:

Here's my shaft log hose. It actually had a split at the top.

20200725_153847.jpg

 

I'll see your split log hose and raise you a cracked, oil soaked and softening one.

 

Old Shaft Log (2).JPG

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2 hours ago, Ajax said:

95F degrees today. 

Everything is reassembled. It's a thing of beauty. Maine Sails' website was highly instructive,  as usual. Went with flax packing due to reports of corrosion with the gore graphite packing. 

I'll post photos tomorrow. 

I'm way ahead of schedule so I'll touch up the bottom paint and some cosmetics. 

You and I seem to be in a horse race Ajax.

85 degrees today.

Everything is reassembled. It's a thing of beauty. ;) Went with Teflon loaded packing due to reports of corrosion with the gore graphite packing. 

V-Drive trans is fresh, packing is new, hose is new, clamps are new, shaft was checked by a shaft shop. engine beds modded to allow access to the packing gland, whole area painted with 2 coats of Bilge Coat.

Still have to finish up - strainer, Racor, exhaust etc. Should be done in a day or two. I think it looks pretty good for a 38 year old boat.

 

Fresh V-Drive 3.JPG

Fresh V-Drive 2.JPG

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Looks better than some brand new boats I've been on!  Great job Jon...

OK, you too Ajax, esp as your 95 degrees came with 95% humidity :rolleyes:

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8 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

You and I seem to be in a horse race Ajax.

85 degrees today.

Everything is reassembled. It's a thing of beauty. ;) Went with Teflon loaded packing due to reports of corrosion with the gore graphite packing. 

V-Drive trans is fresh, packing is new, hose is new, clamps are new, shaft was checked by a shaft shop. engine beds modded to allow access to the packing gland, whole area painted with 2 coats of Bilge Coat.

Still have to finish up - strainer, Racor, exhaust etc. Should be done in a day or two. I think it looks pretty good for a 38 year old boat.

 

Fresh V-Drive 3.JPG

Fresh V-Drive 2.JPG

Way cleaner than my engine area.  I'll have to step up my game. 

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I'm almost ashamed to post this after SJB's photos, but everything's back together. (The black line on the shaft is just grease, not a physical defect.)

This was an unscheduled and pricey haul out. It's also costing me vacation days which I am trying to preserve.  I gave up on buffing and waxing the topsides and settled for freshening up the bottom paint and running gear.  I am inspired to clean up the engine compartment though. I did a thorough vacuuming so that I can get back down there with cleansers and towels and eventually, paint.

With regards to the flax with the separate tube of PTFE grease,  once you coat everything with that grease, how long does it last? I just can't imagine that it lasts long with seawater moving through the packing box and the prop shaft spinning. Seems more like a marketing gimmick.  I found the flax packing to be very tight compared to the Gore GTU packing. I sat on a large, wooden block and braced my back against the rudder and rocked the prop blades back and forth until the propeller shaft made it through.  The packing box nut hadn't even been tightened yet. 

I was going to use T-bolt clamps like I've seen in every G-D photo of stuffing boxes posted on the web, then I read Maine Sail's website where he disavows them because the little spot welds corrode and the T-bolt clamps fail, so I used the clamps he recommends with rolled edges and notches but not perforations for the worm gear.

The Sigma Drive captures the shaft with a locking collar that is drawn into a tapered hole in the body of the Sigma Drive. The locking collar clamps down as it gets squished. There are 6 screws that draw it in and hold it. The shaft needs to be in the collar at least 30mm before bolting it down. I was able to get a little more than that.  I'm just a little weirded out about putting it hard astern. I hope that collar really bites down because I don't want to eject the shaft into the rudder.

Launch Day is tomorrow afternoon.

 

20200728_083228.thumb.jpg.396842d7cb3e3b0c234d064d4e3ad47a.jpg

20200727_114603.jpg

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7 minutes ago, IStream said:

Looking good, Ajax!

Yeah, well. I didn't post photos of the chalky hull paint. <_<

One of these days... I'll take 14-30 days off and buy some Alexseal and paint the topsides. There's no other way I can afford it. An Awlgrip job anywhere near Annapolis will run me $10k, probably more.

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If you need something to make you feel comfortable in reverse, remember that a zinc ahead of the strut will stop the shaft from backing out more than an inch or so should there be a problem. 

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

I'm almost ashamed to post this after SJB's photos, but everything's back together.

Sorry Ajax - didn't mean to upstage you in your own thread. :(

I was just amused that we seemed to be doing the exact same project at the exact same time.

Mine only looks that nice because I had to modify the engine beds to be able to access the stuffing box - lots of glass work to reinforce the cut areas so as long as I was... I might as well...

I can really relate to your cost comment - it seems that a boat buck is now $1500. 1 for the trans, 1 for the yard and 1 for the survey and miscellaneous.

It'll be a few days more before I go back in - bottom paint, hooking the rest of the stuff back up etc.

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@Ajax  Since I am not doing deliveries, I have way more time on my boat,

 

So- Where is you bilge pump located?  Yes I know beneath the floor boards.  But is it forward or aft? My bilge has 4 “sections”, mine is in the aft-most section.  But it’s position leaves 3-4 gallons in the forward section.  I am considering moving to the forward-most where the through hull is for the paddle wheel/temp transducer.

 

The fuel tank is 1/2 full, the water tank was replaced with a 30 gallon collapsible tank in the America’s location.
 

Thanks

 

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@SloopJonB No, no it's ok. It's good motivation. A clean ship is a safe ship.

@Snore I'm in exactly the same situation that you are. 

A bit of background:  Per the owner's manual, there used to be a shower sump in the 2nd bilge section. A diaphragm pump was located under the galley sink which serviced the shower sump. You could de-water the bilge with the shower sump pump by dropping the hose into the bilge and selecting "manual" on the sump pump at the breaker panel.

A PO removed my shower sump entirely, including the pump. I added a Whale shower sump all-in-one kit and wired it up to the old shower sump 3-way toggle switch on the breaker panel. The icebox drain is also tied to the shower sump box. The PO dropped a Rule 500gph pump in the bilge. I replaced that with a 2000 gph pump in the 3rd bilge section. I added a 3-way (auto/off/manual) switch for the bilge pump.

Like you, I've discovered that around 2.5 gallons of water collects in the forward bilge section that the main bilge pump cannot evacuate, so I'm looking to move the pump to the forward section.

Circling back to the shower sump;  I initially T'd the shower sump into the bilge pump line. When the shower sump would operate, it would dump its contents into the bilge through the bilge pump. I played with a series of check valves and vented loops to no avail. I ended up tying the shower sump discharge into the head sink drain. That works well.

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Thanks.   My boat also had the shower and frig dumping in the bilge.  Last month I set an in-line strainer for the shower and installed the Jabsco diaphragm pump that was left behind under the sink.  It is controlled off the panel.  That will get modified by moving the strainer (cleaned every third shower) to immediately upstream of the pump. This will facilitate cleaning it.  Since the frig rarely has ice in it, and has both a cork in the frig and an in-line valve, I am leaving it drain to the bilge.  The Jabsco removes water faster than flow in, so Iwill likely add a momentary switch, or one that when pressed will run the pump for 1-2 minutes,  to the panel outboard of the head. 

Regarding the original 2.5 gal question, I will post to the groups.io email to see what other T-33 guys have done.   Seems to me moving the pump to the forward edge of the forward section and then placing the switch aft of it (in shallower area) would be the perfect solution.  
 

But ...

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@Snore I have a large, metal "L" bracket that mounts to the bilge partition. The bilge pump and float switch are mounted to the foot of the "L" together.

That's kind of how I found things from the PO. I thought about drilling into the floor of the bilge but I decided that I didn't want to disturb the glass or lead so I just improved upon the "L" bracket.  The bracket keeps the pump and switch off the bilge bottom by about 1/16th - 1/8th of an inch.

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I like the "L" bracket.  Mine was screwed into the solid glass at the bottom of the bilge.

 

Just sent e-mail on tartanownerslist@groups.io 

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Ok, we put the boat in the water and no leaks. Fantastic.

First, I am aware that the packing box is not at all adjusted.  I engage the transmission and...no drips. I put it in neutral and open things up until I get some drips. I engage the transmission and after a bit of time, it stops dripping.  So obviously the packing is swelling, the shaft is warming and expanding, cutting off the water supply. I went through a few iterations of this.

@Maine Sail says (I know you'll get sick of me quoting him) not to move the boat for 24 hours after splashing to let flax packing take up.  Well I can't stay on this dock for 24 hours. My house is around the corner in another creek. I open the packing box a lot, to allow a very steady drip of water and I motor out of the creek. Once into the river, I put the engine in neutral, unspool the genoa and glide up to my creek 1/4 mile away.  I furl the genoa, put it in gear for short bursts to maneuver into my slip a few minutes later. All very low RPMs.

Maine Sail tracks proper adjustment by temperature not by drip rate. Ok, fine. I have a no-contact thermometer.  Problem is, the water in the creek is 92F(!) fucking degrees. The engine is hot, conducting heat through the transmission, down the shaft. The 92F degree sun is blasting into the engine compartment, directly overhead, hitting the packing box. I'm not joking. I can't tell if the heat is from friction, waste engine heat, the sun hitting all the metal...

His preference is that the packing box not exceed 20F degrees more than the surrounding water (115F degrees).  I engaged the transmission in my slip and found that the packing box is really pushing the limit at 20-25 degrees hotter than the water. I shut it all down, left a slow drip running with the shaft at rest, to allow the packing to continue taking up water over night.

MOST (but not all) sources I can find, state 1/4" packing for a 1 inch shaft. That's what I installed.  ONE source (Catalina forum) stated 3/16" packing for a 1 inch shaft.  You can't trust a measurement of the old packing because it's been crushed for years. I'd SWEAR I installed 1/4" GTU packing when I bought the boat.  I'm going to be pissed off if I have to re-pack the stuffing box in the water, with a smaller size.

@Snore any idea what size packing you're using?

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No idea- wrote a check for having box, shaft, etc replaced.

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2 hours ago, Snore said:

No idea- wrote a check for having box, shaft, etc replaced.

Ok. 

I think my problem is too many rings. Yeah, they all fit dry but as they swell,  I'm backing the nut off more and more.  Also,  more rings = more contact area,  more friction. I can pluck a ring out easily enough.  

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Ajax,

I've never heard of sizing packing based on shaft size, but rather based on measuring the gap between the OD of the shaft, and the ID of the packing gland.  Didn't see up thread where you said how many rings you got in?  2-3 is normal.  More might be an issue?  Drip rate is not a bad first iteration/go at things.  Then once in the ball park, maybe you can confirm with the thermometer?  Last time I repacked, I used the GTU Gore.  Maybe only 2 rings of 1/4 inch for the shaft on my S2 9.1 (1 inch shaft as I recall).  As I recall, I tired 3, but that was too many.  Easy to adjust to get a couple drips a minute while in gear, and none when the shaft was stopped.  My thermometer was my bare hand.  Packing gland nut was about the same temp as the shaft when running in gear, so I called that "good enough."  Sold the boat before I needed to repack/check for wear, etc, so can't speak to the corrosion issue folks have brought up.

Crash

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I'm running at nearly 120F degrees with the gland seal dripping at a rate of 1/sec.  that's too hot for that much water flow. Definitely too hot by hand.  I got in 4 rings of packing, which I think is too much.

Let's rewind a bit-  I found the old package for the packing I used when I bought the boat 4 years ago. It's 3/16 GTU.  Well that stuff didn't seal well. I had to overtighten the gland nut to control the drip rate.  I really feel like 1/4" is the right size, I think I just have too much of it, and it's flax so it's swelling. The GTU doesn't expand.

I checked on the boat 4 times yesterday. Each time I returned to the boat, the drips had stopped indicating that the flax is still taking up. I keep backing the gland nut out to let it drip and take up more water. Eventually, the nut is going to back off the packing box completely. I'm near the end of the threads, thus I must have too many rings in.

If after the flax finally takes up enough water and I remove a ring, it's still running too hot, then I will just step down to 3/16" flax packing.

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16 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I'm running at nearly 120F degrees with the gland seal dripping at a rate of 1/sec.  that's too hot for that much water flow. Definitely too hot by hand.  I got in 4 rings of packing, which I think is too much.

Let's rewind a bit-  I found the old package for the packing I used when I bought the boat 4 years ago. It's 3/16 GTU.  Well that stuff didn't seal well. I had to overtighten the gland nut to control the drip rate.  I really feel like 1/4" is the right size, I think I just have too much of it, and it's flax so it's swelling. The GTU doesn't expand.

I checked on the boat 4 times yesterday. Each time I returned to the boat, the drips had stopped indicating that the flax is still taking up. I keep backing the gland nut out to let it drip and take up more water. Eventually, the nut is going to back off the packing box completely. I'm near the end of the threads, thus I must have too many rings in.

If after the flax finally takes up enough water and I remove a ring, it's still running too hot, then I will just step down to 3/16" flax packing.

 

I'm no scientist of shaft packing,... But I think you're ok with what you have. I packed my new shaft last season with typical teflon impregnated flax (Hamilton Marine). I used the teflon grease additive as directed. 

 

Not moving the boat after splashing isn't an option for anyone in my area. Trailer or travel lift, you splash, you motor away. It's hard to get a drip with this packing and grease. Plus as the transmission warms up, it warms the shaft and stuffing box. I've yet to tighten the box on the new shaft from last season, which I left with the shaft easy to spin, no friction from the stuffing. The only way I know it's dripping at all is I can feel the moisture on the lower edge of the box. Plus I'm getting a bit of a discolored spray around the coupling which looks like a mixture of seawater and the lube. 

 

I don't have a gun thermometer but the box feels hot after running, but it's damp below. This stuff works very well to about eliminate bilge water and maintenance. 

 

 

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@Kris Cringle You're probably right. I'm just paranoid. A new shaft will run me around $400 plus another haul out and I don't want that, so I'm being very protective.

The stuffing box may also have been hot because the flax simply wasn't wet enough yet, especially the rings closest to the front. My IR thermometer actually recorded a difference in temperature between the front and rear of the box.

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I have used three rings of 1/4” packing for a 1” shaft, but don’t ask me for a reference...

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6 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

I have used three rings of 1/4” packing for a 1” shaft, but don’t ask me for a reference...

Well you make me feel less crazy. 1/4" seems way more common than 3/16th".  

@Crash isn't wrong when he says I should have measured the ID of the gland nut and sized my packing that way.  Based on past and present performance, I still feel confident that 1/4" is the right size cord.  I just have to get it tuned right.

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FWIW I removed 3 layers from mine and the yard installed 3 new layers.

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@!@#$!.   It's been over 24 hours and the packing is still taking up. Every time I go back to the boat, the dripping has stopped and I need to open the gland nut a little more.

I engaged the transmission briefly last night. The packing box still got hotter than I'd like but I'm finally starting to see indications that the front rings may be wetted.  I think I'm close. I'll keep fiddling with it this weekend and if I can't get it to run cooler by Sunday, I'll remove a ring.

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"Don't just do something, stand there!"

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Last night I went down to the boat. Gland seal had taken up more, and stopped dripping. 

I removed one ring of packing and engaged the transmission. As expected, it took much longer to warm up but it still got too hot. I removed another ring. That leaves 2 rings, which is still acceptable. This stabilized the running temperature. It gets warm, but not hot. Also, the shaft itself seems cooler than the stuffing box. The gland nut is the hottest part.

Test conditions yesterday were much more favorable. We finally had some soaking rains and cloud cover. Water temperature dropped several degrees and no sun beating on the drive components while I have the hatch open. This made it easier to tell if the heat was from friction, waste engine heat or whatever.

I set it to drip 1/second while the shaft is at rest, to let the front ring take up more water overnight. I'm headed down to the dock now to see if it stopped dripping and I'll engage the transmission again and check the temperature.

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Once again, the flax had taken up and stopped dripping (shaft at rest).  I engaged the transmission and got a slow drip. Temperature (finally) within 10-15F degrees of water temperature and it stays there.  Man, I never had such fussiness with synthetic packing.

Took the boat for a real test motor. First of all, the Sigma Drive really smooths out a hard reverse.  It doesn't seem to make a lot of difference at very low RPM's in forward but definitely does make for smoother running at higher RPM's in forward.  Since I only paid a little more than a new, 2-piece coupling and a rubber damper, I'll say it was worth it.  It's a heavy component and I got free shipping, which helped with costs.

Second, the boat absolutely flies under power now. Cleaning the hull and running gear (duh) made a significant difference but also something else-  A Tartan 33 owner on Facebook is some sort of chemical engineer. He sent me a sample of a diesel additive that his company developed.  He stressed to me "Do NOT add more than the recommended dosage."  Now I'm not a big believer of "cure in a bottle" but this stuff did something. I think it really cleared out my injectors.  The boat starts from cold iron more easily than it ever has. I don't even touch the glow plug button anymore. The engine finally hits that last 100 rpms that I could never get.

The final thing I noticed, is that the engine is running much cooler. I credit the clean prop for this. The engine isn't laboring nearly as hard to make the same speed. I also replaced the transmission fluid, which I do every year.

It was hot, shitty work but it'll be worth it for some fast, fall cruising.

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

It was hot, shitty work but it'll be worth it for some fast, fall cruising.

Barnacles never sleep.......

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14 hours ago, Ajax said:

Once again, the flax had taken up and stopped dripping (shaft at rest).  I engaged the transmission and got a slow drip. Temperature (finally) within 10-15F degrees of water temperature and it stays there.  Man, I never had such fussiness with synthetic packing.

Took the boat for a real test motor. First of all, the Sigma Drive really smooths out a hard reverse.  It doesn't seem to make a lot of difference at very low RPM's in forward but definitely does make for smoother running at higher RPM's in forward.  Since I only paid a little more than a new, 2-piece coupling and a rubber damper, I'll say it was worth it.  It's a heavy component and I got free shipping, which helped with costs.

Second, the boat absolutely flies under power now. Cleaning the hull and running gear (duh) made a significant difference but also something else-  A Tartan 33 owner on Facebook is some sort of chemical engineer. He sent me a sample of a diesel additive that his company developed.  He stressed to me "Do NOT add more than the recommended dosage."  Now I'm not a big believer of "cure in a bottle" but this stuff did something. I think it really cleared out my injectors.  The boat starts from cold iron more easily than it ever has. I don't even touch the glow plug button anymore. The engine finally hits that last 100 rpms that I could never get.

The final thing I noticed, is that the engine is running much cooler. I credit the clean prop for this. The engine isn't laboring nearly as hard to make the same speed. I also replaced the transmission fluid, which I do every year.

It was hot, shitty work but it'll be worth it for some fast, fall cruising.

Sorry to hear about all your packing problems Ajax, but it could be worse.

You could be me.

I got my fresh trans installed and finished reinstalling all the systems etc. on Thursday. Last thing I did was fill the trans.

On Friday I went down to arrange a launch and then went to the boat to find a puddle of ATF under the trans - the fuckers didn't seal the case halves properly. :angry: ARRRRRRGGGHHH. It was actually leaking worse than before.

Called them and told them about it and they generously said I could bring it back and they'd look at it. Naturally this was Friday afternoon before a long weekend so it'll be Tuesday morning before that happens.

Spent Saturday morning pulling it out again - the one "good" thing to come out of this is that it took 2 hours to pull it compared to the 10 days it originally took - fresh threads and so forth make the work SO much nicer.

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Sorry to hear about all your packing problems Ajax, but it could be worse.

You could be me.

I got my fresh trans installed and finished reinstalling all the systems etc. on Thursday. Last thing I did was fill the trans.

On Friday I went down to arrange a launch and then went to the boat to find a puddle of ATF under the trans - the fuckers didn't seal the case halves properly. :angry: ARRRRRRGGGHHH. It was actually leaking worse than before.

Called them and told them about it and they generously said I could bring it back and they'd look at it. Naturally this was Friday afternoon before a long weekend so it'll be Tuesday morning before that happens.

Spent Saturday morning pulling it out again - the one "good" thing to come out of this is that it took 2 hours to pull it compared to the 10 days it originally took - fresh threads and so forth make the work SO much nicer.

Oh no! I hope they make it right. 

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It certainly puts fear into me for ever thinking about rebuilding my own gearbox, should the need arise.

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6 hours ago, Ajax said:

It certainly puts fear into me for ever thinking about rebuilding my own gearbox, should the need arise.

Considering how simple it must be inside, I'm beginning to wish I had done it myself. Can't be as complicated as a 3 speed Barient and I've done those with no problems.

I was told by a mechanic I respect that it requires some special tools so that put me off.

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Considering how simple it must be inside, I'm beginning to wish I had done it myself. Can't be as complicated as a 3 speed Barient and I've done those with no problems.

I was told by a mechanic I respect that it requires some special tools so that put me off.

A Hurth HBW-50 is around $700.  I would just pay for another unit. Yours is a V-drive and probably much more expensive. You were between a rock and a hard place.  If the shop fixes it without extorting more money from you, it'll still be a fair deal. If they start playing games and asking for more money to fix their mistake, not so much. You might end up taking it somewhere else.

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The problem with Jon's situation is that if they fucked up something as basic as sealing the unit, what else did they fuck up? Did they give the job to the pimply teenager there for the summer? I'd be demanding that their best guy redo the whole job or giving my money back.

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9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Considering how simple it must be inside, I'm beginning to wish I had done it myself. Can't be as complicated as a 3 speed Barient and I've done those with no problems.

I was told by a mechanic I respect that it requires some special tools so that put me off.

I have rebuilt marine and automotive transmissions in the past. Special tools can be improvised or made from simple junk. If you are mechanically apt - do your own brake jobs, wheel bearings on you trailer, etc. - then there is nothing insurmountable in rebuilding a Hurth or a Kanzaki. At least with your tranny, it can be on the bench for the rebuild; the Barient is never more than a couple of feet from the world's best spring and bearing collector. Mind you, I have spent 1/2 an hour on my knees, crawling around looking for a dropped part, but at least I didn't have to hold my breath. But there is no excuse for an oil leak like that and no apology from the shop is acceptable (unless in the form of $).

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4 hours ago, Ajax said:

A Hurth HBW-50 is around $700.  I would just pay for another unit. Yours is a V-drive and probably much more expensive. You were between a rock and a hard place.  If the shop fixes it without extorting more money from you, it'll still be a fair deal. If they start playing games and asking for more money to fix their mistake, not so much. You might end up taking it somewhere else.

I was quoted $6K for a new one. :o Plus, it's obsolete and I don't know if an exact replacement is even available which could mean endless problems with fitment and alignment.

All it needed was new seals and a sleeve on the main shaft - it was working fine, no noise or anything, just an annoying weep of fluid into the bilge.

We'll see tomorrow - I'll be surprised if they don't fix it - the shop has a good rep.

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Ok, as discussed in the HDPE thread, I was able to have all new fitting spin-welded to my starboard water tank. I've gone sailing and nothing leaked so now I'll re-tab the retaining grid on top of the tank to the hull for extra security.

Note for any Tartan owners reading this thread: ARDEMCO.com has a ready-made tank that will drop in. Model #B112.  This tank will reduce starboard tank capacity to about 20 gallons, nominal. When viewing tank capacities on these websites, the listed capacity is "gross" and does not account for the thickness of the material which reduces capacity significantly. My 36 gallon tank only holds 27 gallons, for example.  I stumbled on a thread online that indicates that the B112 tank will also fit a Tartan 37's starboard tank as a replacement.

The original tank is model 1-5071 by Kracor, only order-able through Tartan Marine.

Attached here are the specifications of the Ardemco tank.

B112.pdf

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On 8/3/2020 at 11:47 AM, SloopJonB said:

I was quoted $6K for a new one. :o Plus, it's obsolete and I don't know if an exact replacement is even available which could mean endless problems with fitment and alignment.

All it needed was new seals and a sleeve on the main shaft - it was working fine, no noise or anything, just an annoying weep of fluid into the bilge.

We'll see tomorrow - I'll be surprised if they don't fix it - the shop has a good rep.

We had this problem on the BI 40. The transmission went. No one, anywhere, had one that would mate to the ancient engine. Ended up having to replace a perfectly good engine just to get a working transmission. 

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Next up:  A general beefing up of systems.

I have two G31 wet cell batteries for the house bank.  There's no room for more. The boat already lists to port due to the unequal distribution of weight. I might upgrade to 2 Firefly AGM's at some point but that's later.

I have 160 watts of solar capacity which just barely keeps up with the fridge in the hottest period of summer but is more than adequate otherwise. I am adding a flexible 50 watt panel to the sliding hatch fiberglass hood. It matches the dimensions very closely.  I have the option to add another 100 watts split between the aft side decks. If 310 watts can't keep up with my dinky fridge, something's wrong.

My propane locker can only hold a single 11lb bottle.  The bottle is of a shape that seems uncommon and is only available from a few sources so I've ordered a second bottle. For long distance cruising, I may work up a bracket on the pulpit and a cover with a drawstring to protect it from the elements. During normal times, I'll store the spare tank in a safe place at the house. I *might* be able to add a second locker on the opposite side of the cockpit. I'll need to check for any interference in the lazarette.

This week, my preferred anchor will be on sale so I'll pick up a Rocna Vulcan 15. That'll get my ground tackle to the size that it needs to be.

Finally, I hope to have new standing rigging made this winter.

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@Ajax Ponder some load management.  What is does the existing compressor draw?  Would a new one draw less?   I really don't like adding stuff to the outside of my boat...

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7 minutes ago, Snore said:

@Ajax Ponder some load management.  What is does the existing compressor draw?  Would a new one draw less?   I really don't like adding stuff to the outside of my boat...

I've looked into this. Refrigeration technology...especially RV and boat has not made any exponential leaps forward. The thing draws about 4 amps. The duty cycle is the issue. I've managed to greatly reduce the duty cycle by improving the insulation of the ice box. In the future, I might look into tearing apart the cabinet and re-insulating with Aerogel.

Edit:  Isotherm does have a new type of water based heat exchange compressor that taps into the galley sink drain to avoid punching another hole in the boat. It's supposed to be more efficient. It's very pricey. I might do it but it has to be after the standing rigging is replaced.

As far as my "external protuberances" none of this stuff will require drilling of holes and can be removed.  My 160 watt panel is on a clamp-on, aluminum frame on the stern pulpit. Removes in 30 seconds and weighs around 15 lbs.  All of my panels will be the thin, semi-flexible type. I never step on that sliding hatch hood as it's not really meant to take the weight of people anyway.  I have a cool trick in mind for the cabling that will hide it neatly.

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27 minutes ago, Ajax said:

 

Edit:  Isotherm does have a new type of water based heat exchange compressor that taps into the galley sink drain to avoid punching another hole in the boat. It's supposed to be more efficient. It's very pricey. I might do it but it has to be after the standing rigging is replaced.

 

 

The water-cooled refrigeration would work up there, but not down here.  But, as you said, price...

Thanks again for the Ardemco tip, I may spring for a new one.  My current project is winch covers to match Bimini and now recovering interior cushions.  Discovered the $200 Singer works just fine on those fabrics.

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Would an air cooled smart controller with holding plate help even out the load on the fridge? 

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13 minutes ago, Elegua said:

Would an air cooled smart controller with holding plate help even out the load on the fridge? 

Uh...can you elaborate? Got any links to this gear?

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4 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Uh...can you elaborate? Got any links to this gear?

https://www.indelwebastomarine.com/us/products/marine-refrigeration-systems/asu-and-itc-holding-plate-refrigeration-systems/isotherm-plus-itc-air-cooled/

Runs harder into a holding plate when the battery system is charging. I see some people with no engine like Kevin Boothby use a system like this - purely solar powered. My fridge is 30 years old, so I'm looking hard at this option. 

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@Elegua Ah, ok. I saw this on his videos also.

I have an Adler-Barbour Cold Machine that is chilling a freezer bucket (as opposed to a long, flat plate for refrigeration).  The system absorbs enough heat from the rest of the icebox to reach refrigeration temperatures while freezing whatever I deposit into the bucket.

You're suggesting that I add the holding plate as a supplemental, not use it to replace my existing system.  Normally I'd say this won't help things but the smart controller might run the system in an intelligent manner that uses excess solar capacity...which I guess is your whole point.  My AB controller is just a dumb thermostat.

Funny thing-  Now that temperatures here have dropped to the low 70's with water in the mid 60's, the Cold Machine nearly froze everything we were going to eat for dinner in a couple of hours of being switched on. It really only needs a slight respite from the heat to work well. When it's 90-98F degrees, that's when it really struggles.

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9 minutes ago, Ajax said:

@Elegua Ah, ok. I saw this on his videos also.

I have an Adler-Barbour Cold Machine that is chilling a freezer bucket (as opposed to a long, flat plate for refrigeration).  The system absorbs enough heat from the rest of the icebox to reach refrigeration temperatures while freezing whatever I deposit into the bucket.

You're suggesting that I add the holding plate as a supplemental, not use it to replace my existing system.  Normally I'd say this won't help things but the smart controller might run the system in an intelligent manner that uses excess solar capacity...which I guess is your whole point.  My AB controller is just a dumb thermostat.

Funny thing-  Now that temperatures here have dropped to the low 70's with water in the mid 60's, the Cold Machine nearly froze everything we were going to eat for dinner in a couple of hours of being switched on. It really only needs a slight respite from the heat to work well. When it's 90-98F degrees, that's when it really struggles.

Yeah, I was thinking about being more efficient by absorbing excess solar/engine capacity.   I have an old AB unit that should really be put out to pasture with a simple condenser. It uses a lot of amps even in Maine. I put some expanding foam around the box. I wasn't smart enough to add to the insulation inside and I'm thinking once I replace, to get one of those smart units. 

Ice = civilization

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2 hours ago, Alaris said:

We had this problem on the BI 40. The transmission went. No one, anywhere, had one that would mate to the ancient engine. Ended up having to replace a perfectly good engine just to get a working transmission. 

I feel your pain - sort of.

As detailed on Fix It, I found a guy who was able to properly repair my V-Drive and am back in the water.

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5 hours ago, Ajax said:

When it's 90-98F degrees, that's when it really struggles.

Along with the rest of us.

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7 hours ago, Elegua said:

https://www.indelwebastomarine.com/us/products/marine-refrigeration-systems/asu-and-itc-holding-plate-refrigeration-systems/isotherm-plus-itc-air-cooled/

Runs harder into a holding plate when the battery system is charging. I see some people with no engine like Kevin Boothby use a system like this - purely solar powered. My fridge is 30 years old, so I'm looking hard at this option. 

Something ain’t right.  The device sounded interesting, so I starting looking for reviews.   Neither WM nor Defender Carey this line.  Is it that new? Or is it that crappy?

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3 minutes ago, Snore said:

Something ain’t right.  The device sounded interesting, so I starting looking for reviews.   Neither WM nor Defender Carey this line.  Is it that new? Or is it that crappy?

New-ish....Defender carries them. Not cheep. Some folks with no engine tend to have them. 

https://www.defender.com/category.jsp?path=-1|2276179|2276204|2276226&amp;id=2530809

 

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