Ed Lada

The Grateful Dead; By Far the Most Overated Band Ever

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37 minutes ago, 2slow said:

 

I listen to that and I hear the radio “Ray! Ray! Counterbattery! Counterbattery! Add 10 and fire for effect”. 

Weird world.

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That Ryan McGarvey track was OK, and he definitely has chops, but all in all, it didn't do much for me.  Neither the song nor the solos told a story.  For that matter, the Jeff Beck cut from the Letterman show (What Mama Said) wasn't all that spectacular either.  I saw Beck when he was promoting that album, and it was a big change for him at the time.  His latest is a similar move in a new direction, and I enjoy it but IMHO it's far from his best.  If Jeff Beck has a "Layla", it's got to be "Cause We've Ended as Lovers", written by Stevie Wonder and first recorded by Beck in 1974.  But it seems that the song is always evolving in his hands.  Here it is in 2008:

Listen to the way the solos grow organically, and Jeff's mastery of tone serving the song.  Jeff isn't a chop-monster, but he has taste and feeling.  That counts for so much more.

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2 hours ago, 2slow said:

1989, Jerry still had it.  "Grass ain't greener, wine ain't sweeter either side of the hill"

 

 

Holy shit that was weird. I just went into the wayback machine! I remember that exact sound rig. It was probably the best acoustic live setup I've ever heard.

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10 hours ago, Point Break said:

There is a difference between a really good musician and an adequate one that is a hell of an entertainer. I think Springsteen falls into the latter category. No doubt a lot of the songs are really fun and he is a great performer live. But trying to make the comparison is like apples and oranges. Its like Buffet or Chesney......great entertainers.........great great entertainers......musicians? Yeah they are musicians but not at the same level. I don't enjoy them any less because of that. They occupy a really fun niche, and glad they do.

But I like bagpipes so what do I know......................

Yeah, you said it all with your last statement.  :P

I am going to have to disagree with you about Bruce, he is much more than just a mere entertainer.  He is a great guitarist, and a brilliant songwriter.  He has, in the E Street Band, what has to be one of the tightest, greatest bands in all of rock and roll.  Nils Lofgren is one of the most underrated guitarists in rock music.  Max Weinberg beats out a solid foundation for a monumental musical edifice. The late, great Clarence 'Big Man' Clemons was the soul of the band and Roy Bittan is a piano virtuoso.  People who don't understand or like to put down Bruce have never really seriously listened to his music.  There is much more to his oeuvre than Born to Run, Born in the USA and Dancing in the Dark.  I can say the same thing that the Deadheads claim, "if you don't get it, oh well."

Y'all can denigrate Bruce all you want, the man has been around for years selling out show after show, has produced a huge amount of incredible music and earned the devotion of million of fans.  He must be doing something right.  Bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuce!!

This song sums it all up.  Life is hard, life sucks, but if you keep trying and don't lose your faith, if you keep fighting maybe, just maybe there is something better out there.  This  song has gotten me through more than one dark time in my life.

 

 

From: Thunder Road

"Don't run back inside, darling, you know just what I'm here for
So you're scared and you're thinking that maybe we ain't that young anymore
Show a little faith, there's magic in the night
You ain't a beauty but, hey, you're alright
Oh, and that's alright with me"

Only a genius like Bruce could tell a woman, "You ain't a beauty but, hey, your all right"  and make it sound like the greatest compliment ever given.

 

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6 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

I am going to have to disagree with you about Bruce, he is much more than just a mere entertainer. 

.

We know..............:lol:

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14 hours ago, Point Break said:

I listen to that and I hear the radio “Ray! Ray! Counterbattery! Counterbattery! Add 10 and fire for effect”. 

Weird world.

"There's a bathroom on the right"

"Old cousin Walter, a fire in the sky"

There's lots of them.

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On 1/26/2018 at 12:12 PM, Ed Lada said:

I'll bet you get in endless Chevy vs Ford vs MOPAR bar arguments all the time too.

I drive a Mazda. But you are correct that there are a ton a great players out there. YOutube Mont Montgomery playing Hendrix's Little Wing. It's acoustic. 

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On 1/27/2018 at 10:06 PM, austin1972 said:

Holy shit that was weird. I just went into the wayback machine! I remember that exact sound rig. It was probably the best acoustic live setup I've ever heard.

Same here, right down to the carpets...

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The 2 biggest surprises were seeing Elton John and Bruce Springsteen a couple years ago, was drug* to both and amazed what great shows they were. Biggest disappointment? Tom Petty. go figure - he headlined with Steve Winwood opening - who didn't play long or loud enough - Petty was so f'ning loud all the drunks loved it.  Which reminds of another - Roy Buchanan, 1st time in the 80's blew me away, just awesome. Last time not long before he died and was like he just phoned it in, really bummed.  Small venue, front row and totally sucked.  Never saw the Dead live, obviously missed something big. 

* was straight as opposed to all the shows I saw in the 70s. 

edit: a band I was in early 70's we played Casey Jones all the time for us as there were few fans.... 

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3 hours ago, d'ranger said:

Biggest disappointment? Tom Petty. go figure - he headlined with Steve Winwood opening - who didn't play long or loud enough - Petty was so f'ning loud all the drunks loved it. 

We saw Tom Petty at one of Neil Young's "Bridge School Benefit" concerts, and I would say Petty stole the show.  Yes, they were too loud, but in spite of that it was a great performance.

Winwood is great live.  We heard him once from our boat, anchored out for the "Kaboom" fireworks on San Francisco bay, and another time in Helsinki, singing for the Funk Brothers (*).  That was in an ice arena, and Winwood's sound guy was running the board.  He got an amazing mix in a tough venue (and Winwood was great on the Motown tunes).

 (*) I was very involved with their movie and traveled around with them for a while.

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2 hours ago, d'ranger said:

The 2 biggest surprises were seeing Elton John and Bruce Springsteen a couple years ago, was drug* to both and amazed what great shows they were. Biggest disappointment? Tom Petty. go figure - he headlined with Steve Winwood opening - who didn't play long or loud enough - Petty was so f'ning loud all the drunks loved it.  Which reminds of another - Roy Buchanan, 1st time in the 80's blew me away, just awesome. Last time not long before he died and was like he just phoned it in, really bummed.  Small venue, front row and totally sucked.  Never saw the Dead live, obviously missed something big. 

* was straight as opposed to all the shows I saw in the 70s. 

edit: a band I was in early 70's we played Casey Jones all the time for us as there were few fans.... 

My most disappointing concert was The Who, in Rome, Italy, in 1972.  I am a big Who fan but I wasn't impressed wit the show.  It was loud, Daltrey's sing was terrible and he kept throwing the mike in the air and pulling it back by the cord, like after every verse of every song, while Townshend was doing the his trademark windmill guitar chord playing, like on every chord on every song.  Keith Moon was great anyway.  I just missed catching one of his drumsticks after they did the obligatory, let's destroy our instruments and the amps. Actually I was relieved at that point, I had a headache from the show.  

In an interesting footnote, I again just missed a drumstick, this time it was John Bonham at a Led Zeppelin show in Cleveland, OH in 1977.  I could have had a "Greatest Dead Rock Drummers Drumstick" collection!  Both times, I could have just accidentally banged into the person in front of me and snatched the stick.  I am too nice sometimes.  To add insult to injury, I went to the Zeppelin show with a group from a local radio station, on a bus.  On the ride home, the dude that had the drumstick was sitting in front of me on the bus and he kept tapping the stick on the seat in front of him.  Another lost opportunity...

 

Unfortunately, they gave me the wrong half of the Led Zeppelin ticket back.  I don't even know how I managed to keep these tickets all of these years, I have moved all over the world since those concerts.  The Italian one is like tissue paper, typical of Italian tickets for anything back then.  The title of the concert was "The New Generation, Hello 2001" but the concert was in '72. Apparently 2001 was in the unimaginable future!  Here is the listing from Wikipedia, in case you don't believe me.  ;) 

14 September 1972 Rome Italy Palasport

 

 5a6f6349dd9e5_TheWho.jpg.4212cdceac1f4190ea2809822c9b90a9.jpg

Led Zeppelin.jpg

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11 minutes ago, Fat Point Jack said:

As I remember, Hendrix was asked who was the best and he said Terry Kath of Chicago.

Relisten to "Chicago Transit Authority" and the 3 record Live set and hear why he said that.

 

I would but then i would have to listen to Chicago..gag...puke

 

Phil Collins might have a great guitarist also but I will never know

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54 minutes ago, 2slow said:

I would but then i would have to listen to Chicago..gag...puke

 

Phil Collins might have a great guitarist also but I will never know

Yep. The only time I saw Chicago was a Jerry Brown fundraiser concert in San Diego. Ronstadt, Beach Boys, and Chicago. Chicago was.....meh. Good time to hit the head and get a beer.

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I saw Chicago once, and was not particularly impressed.  They were either opening for Hendrix or Cream, I don't recall which.  A buddy of mine loves Chicago, but he plays trumpet so that might explain it.

What do you call a trombone player with a pager?

 

 

An optimist.

 

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One of my accounts has Sirius radio so OF COURSE I listen to the Grateful Dead channel when I'm working aboard. Sometimes I'll be working and not see the R O coming down the dock and I have to jump down to turn the volume down as he steps on board.  So he knows I like the dead.  Not sure if he knows what my " dancing bears " bumper sticker means.  Just got an email from him that he got me two tickets " way down in the front "  for The Dead & Company this summer. N I C E !!!  Saw The Other Ones @ Outside Lands 2004 (?).   First ( of about 25 ) Dead shows I went to was June '72 @ Hollywood Bowl. Was Pigpen's last show. Had just finished my sophomore year of high school. Now it's 46 years later. In a few years I'll be on medi care, and I'm still going to Dead shows !          Weird.         What a long strange trip it's been.  

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On 1/25/2018 at 8:36 PM, dacapo said:

Jerry was a highly respected musician and guitarist...not to mention banjo....

if he sucked guys like Vassar Clements, David Grisman and Peter Rowan wouldn't of played with him

 

My Old and in the Way album looks different than that. I gotta figure this out. 

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The husband and I have been able to catch a couple of shows on each tour in recent years. 

The current iteration, Dead and Company, is not the same, but we have fun.  

We have tickets to the upcoming June 1-2 shows in Camden, and to the July 8 Dark Star Orchestra show at Red Rocks.

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15 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

Tackes alle you gotte juste to staye on teh beatte.......           :)

The more you give, the more it will take.

I had a spinner accidentally slap me in the face when they were playing FOTM once. Freakin' spinners.

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What I can't figure out is in all of those videos from the Dead, they play the same song, no matter what the title is.  Interesting that they've had such a long career and only wrote 2 songs.

 

I think it has something to do with this.

 

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53 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

What I can't figure out is in all of those videos from the Dead, they play the same song, no matter what the title is. 

Just like Chuck Berry.

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The Clapton-Beck-Hendrix argument is pointless, they're styles are all so different, and Hendrix hasn't gotten any better since he died. Clapton has a reverence for the blues, and for the guys who came before him, that I appreciate, his acoustic and traditional work is some of my favorite. Just the other day I was watching his one song on "The Last Waltz", Further On Up The Road, really infectious. In his prime, his fast descending runs were amazing, listen to the one at on 2:45 on the track Keep On Growin from Layla. Not that it's so fast, but that it's so good.

Of all of the stuff Hendrix did, my favorite is Red House. Yeah, I like blues and I don't apologize. That's a great track

Beck is always interesting, I liked Truth, Beck-Ola, Blow By Blow, Wired. My wife likes Live At Ronnie Scott's. A lot of times I don't like his tone. Truth was ahead of it's time.

It not speed, it's music. If I could play like anyone, I'd choose Hubert Sumlin. An awful lot of what we think of as standard blues moves came from him.

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Just like Chuck Berry.

and Bach   :ph34r:

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49 minutes ago, dacapo said:

and Bach   :ph34r:

Don't get me started on Bach.  That math shit doesn't belong in music.  One of my wife's favorites, no wonder we don't live together anymore.  

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10 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

The original boy band. Just the core, no frills, everybody working their asses off. From an unreleased Grateful Dead movie called Sunshine Daydream.\

 

 

Gee, an unreleased film from 1972.  The only reason it could be is that the movie sucks.  Go figure.

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5 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

Gee, an unreleased film from 1972.  The only reason it could be is that the movie sucks.  Go figure.

You oue mercilesse my frende.......        :)

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1 minute ago, Snaggletooth said:

You oue mercilesse my frende.......        :)

I have to be Snags, I have to be.  ;)

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5 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

What I can't figure out is in all of those videos from the Dead, they play the same song, no matter what the title is.  Interesting that they've had such a long career and only wrote 2 songs.

I think it has something to do with this.

 

Ha!

 
Now, some on that list are covers but that's a hell of a set list.

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44 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

Don't get me started on Bach.  That math shit doesn't belong in music.  One of my wife's favorites, no wonder we don't live together anymore.  

Bach and the Dead suck but Springsteen is God............you're not helping your case here.........

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1 hour ago, Ed Lada said:

Don't get me started on Bach.  That math shit doesn't belong in music.  One of my wife's favorites, no wonder we don't live together anymore.  

Music is math with emotion and creativity intertwined.

 

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20 minutes ago, Point Break said:

Bach and the Dead suck but Springsteen is God............you're not helping your case here.........

You forgot he thinks everyone else is an asshole as is his wife who moved out long ago.

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Just now, mainsheetsister said:

I was at this show, too.  The Hampton spaceship!

I saw a couple of shows there. One, don't remember when, maybe Brent's first east coast tour, major thunder and lightening, all the rain songs played, windows at the roof of the dome putting on a mighty fine lightshow.

Another time there was a carnival next to the building, full on, southern carnival with geeks and freaks and all the creeps..... and 5000 deadheads wandering around after the show. I don't know who was more stunned, the geeks or the deadheads.

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32 minutes ago, austin1972 said:

Ha!

 
Now, some on that list are covers but that's a hell of a set list.

You left out Beer Barrel Polka, Monkey Stole the Handle, and a whole hell of a lot of little ditties they would play when someone in the band needed a bathroom break. All Ad Hoc and usually pretty damn good versions for an on the fly effort.

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1 hour ago, Ed Lada said:

Gee, an unreleased film from 1972.  The only reason it could be is that the movie sucks.  Go figure.

Actually it is musically pretty good concert footage.... and only the 4 original members (less Pigpen). Which without a percussionist and piano/keyboards or vocalist, they all had to play their hearts out. No filler, no falling back on someone else. Just the Dead puttin' on a show and a damn fine effort. The reason it wasn't released, as I understand it, is they couldn't figure out how to edit out the guy behind the stage to the left, buck naked up that telephone pole.......

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1st time I heard take 5 I went, whoa, what is that.  5/4 time?  The game was then - pat one leg straight time and the other in 3/4 - because it's syncopated.   Bach was a genius and broke new ground - back then you were either from a wealthy family or worked for one or wrote for the church. Bach did both and was prolific as he had to compose a new piece EVERY F'Ing WEEK.  Every Sunday.  Now that's pressure. 

I learned lots of new words back then - contrapuntal for instance - Bach starts with a melody and then it gets passed through the instruments so at some point the accompaniment is in the solo (violin for instance) and the melody is in the cello/bass, same with wind instruments.  The older  I get the more I appreciate classical and the professors who worked so hard to beat some knowledge into me.  

In American music I enjoy the progression of blues to jazz - folk to country, how Aaron Copland weaves traditional Americana into his compositions.  I once spent an evening sitting at a table with 6 or 7 people including Copland and being fresh out of high school was so shy the only thing I ever said was can I have your autograph?  Wish I could redo that one.  Lots of great music and musicians out there and the day the music died was when rap and giant thumpers invaded cars.  Oh yeah, if I had to pick one it would be Beethoven.  With a side order of Hendrix.

 

And BillDB - please don't quote pages long posts.  TIA

edit: When people hate classical or jazz I know it's because they weren't properly introduced, the more you know the more you like it, sort of like appreciating a great single malt.  And Rap? Uh, it's 60's beatnik fast forwarded to blasting percussion and angry lyrics.  It may be a lot of things but it ain't music. And get off my lawn.

 

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3 hours ago, BillDBastard said:

And Jorma;)

Speaking of Jorma. I have mandolin lesson with Barry Mitterhoff coming up soon.  Acoustic hot tuna goes back on tour in March 

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1 hour ago, d'ranger said:

And BillDB - please don't quote pages long posts.  TIA

 

That was me that posted the stupid long list. Sorry about that. Was just trying to make a point. And Blue Rondo a la Turk was in 9/8. You can count it out. It's a way more complex song then I  think most people can grasp. I know I'd trip over my shoelaces on that one.

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2 minutes ago, austin1972 said:

That was me that posted the stupid long list. Sorry about that. Was just making a point.

that's fine , it's the requoting of it that ain't necessary , all about rsi as we scroll passed it again . ;)

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16 minutes ago, austin1972 said:

That was me that posted the stupid long list. Sorry about that. Was just trying to make a point. And Blue Rondo a la Turk was in 9/8.

No problem with the list, BillD quoted it without an edit.  In my stream of consciousness (mikewoofieness mode) was referring to Take 5.  Threads like this bring back great memories.  Loved bruebeck from the 1st time I heard them.  When was freshman they came to the school I was out and I couldn't afford the 6 bucks or so for a ticket.  Wish I could have that night back.

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3 hours ago, Point Break said:

Bach and the Dead suck but Springsteen is God............you're not helping your case here.........

I am a Chopin and Beethoven man, and a little Mozart too.  And Stravinsky and most of those Russians, musical people they are.   Is that acceptable?   I never said Bach sucks, my wife has a PhD in music conducting and voice, so I have had 10 years of being immersed in music and I was always a music lover before that.  I just don't care for Bach's style,  that mathematical precision.   I like the flowing melodies of Beethoven better.  

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1 hour ago, d'ranger said:

1st time I heard take 5 I went, whoa, what is that.  5/4 time?  The game was then - pat one leg straight time and the other in 3/4 - because it's syncopated.   Bach was a genius and broke new ground - back then you were either from a wealthy family or worked for one or wrote for the church. Bach did both and was prolific as he had to compose a new piece EVERY F'Ing WEEK.  Every Sunday.  Now that's pressure. 

I learned lots of new words back then - contrapuntal for instance - Bach starts with a melody and then it gets passed through the instruments so at some point the accompaniment is in the solo (violin for instance) and the melody is in the cello/bass, same with wind instruments.  The older  I get the more I appreciate classical and the professors who worked so hard to beat some knowledge into me.  

In American music I enjoy the progression of blues to jazz - folk to country, how Aaron Copland weaves traditional Americana into his compositions.  I once spent an evening sitting at a table with 6 or 7 people including Copland and being fresh out of high school was so shy the only thing I ever said was can I have your autograph?  Wish I could redo that one.  Lots of great music and musicians out there and the day the music died was when rap and giant thumpers invaded cars.  Oh yeah, if I had to pick one it would be Beethoven.  With a side order of Hendrix.

 

And BillDB - please don't quote pages long posts.  TIA

edit: When people hate classical or jazz I know it's because they weren't properly introduced, the more you know the more you like it, sort of like appreciating a great single malt.  And Rap? Uh, it's 60's beatnik fast forwarded to blasting percussion and angry lyrics.  It may be a lot of things but it ain't music. And get off my lawn.

 

I had a similar experience with Dave Brubeck.  I was working at the time for the San Antonio Symphony Orchestra and Dave Brubeck had come to the Majestic theater for a show that night.  The Symphony offices were in the theater building  This was in 1996 and Brubeck was in his '70s I think.  So the boss put his head in and said Brubeck was in the house practicing and we could go listen and meet him if we liked. I thought shit, I can meet Brubeck, I love his stuff.  So I went down and listened to him play then afterward 3 or 4 of went up to him and I just froze up, I couldn't say a word, couldn't even ask for an autograph.  Shook his hand and that was that.  It was Dave Brubeck FFS!  I went to the concert that night, it was great.

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3 hours ago, BillDBastard said:

You forgot he thinks everyone else is an asshole as is his wife who moved out long ago.

I moved out 2 years ago.  We see each other a few times a week and maintain a relationship of sorts.  We even go together for trips to places on occasion.

I don't think at all that everyone is an asshole.  Just folks like you.  Hell you even call yourself a bastard.

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3 hours ago, austin1972 said:

Music is math with emotion and creativity intertwined.

 

See that's the point though.  You don't need to know anything about the math behind the music if you don't want to and I don't think it hurts anything.  If you want to be analytical and get into the math fine, it's just a different way to enjoy the music.  I played the violin when I was young and was quite good at it.  I never learned to read music, I learned what finger where and what it should sound like.  I don't know the key of G from the key of C major.   I see those squiggles over on the left and it means nothing to me. (at the house we built here, the double driveway is 2' square gray granite stones and there is a big G cleff in the center in black stones as well as one on each of 3 balcony metal railings on the 2nd floor)  I sing in my wife's choir and the same thing I see the bass notes, I know what they should sound like and I sing it.  I have no sense of the time signature either.  I never look on the left side to see, I just hear the music once and then I know what tempo it is.  I kind of speed up on the fast notes and draw out the open ones.   I am also math phobic due to a bad experience with a 3rd grade teacher, so I just don't care about the math part.  I have a vague understanding of octaves and all that but I don't need to know the other stuff.  It is all intuitive for me.    

I very much love how music can penetrate the defenses and go straight to the soul.  I think music is the most powerful of the arts and plays well with most of them too.   I have a BA in Technical theater, I have been around music in one form or another all of my life.  I have attended countless classical music concerts, operas, ballet, etc.   I love most kinds of music, classical and rock are my favorites but I will give almost anything a listen.

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Brubeck Trivia:

He grew up as a cowboy on a big ranch near where I live. The ranch was owned by the Howards who were the owners of Sea Biscuit. His unique rhythmic patterns were inspired by the horse he rode in on.

 

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2 hours ago, Dorado said:

Brubeck Trivia:

He grew up as a cowboy on a big ranch near where I live. The ranch was owned by the Howards who were the owners of Sea Biscuit. His unique rhythmic patterns were inspired by the horse he rode in on.

 

That's so cool. The little horse that could. Thanks for that! It was a good movie too. I had a friend over and she was jumping up and down in a rocking char screaming, "Go Seabiscuit Go!" Good times.

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Ed.

Have you ever heard the Dead while tripping your brains out? 

It changes how you perceive the music, long after the acid wears off.

Try it.

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1 hour ago, Student_Driver said:

Ed.

Have you ever heard the Dead while tripping your brains out? 

It changes how you perceive the music, long after the acid wears off.

Try it.

S_D,

Plesae saave youselfe the trubbelle.  Whille toureng in Clevanlande JG cutte EL in liine to the mens roome, when he realley hade to go.  Anorthere time in Tolledo, BW paunched oute in frustaione at strangieres becauze hisse harmoney in "Come hearre Uncelle Johnes Bande" realley suckte, EL wase the innicentte victime.

It alle downehille frome theire............                                :)

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32 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

S_D,

Plesae saave youselfe the trubbelle.  Whille toureng in Clevanlande JG cutte EL in liine to the mens roome, when he realley hade to go.  Anorthere time in Tolledo, BW paunched oute in frustaione at strangieres becauze hisse harmoney in "Come hearre Uncelle Johnes Bande" realley suckte, EL wase the innicentte victime.

It alle downehille frome theire............                                :)

It's too horrible to even talk about it.

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3 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

Sorrey, I brouhte it up.  Nevere againe, appologiese.

Thanks buddy.  I'm OK, it just every now and then, you know...

 

I never should have taken that brown acid.

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24 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

I never should have taken that brown acid.

Theire our thiges in life thet oune shoude nevere appollogize forre, I thicke thissis oune thoise.                           :)

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47 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

It's too horrible to even talk about it.

Stille laffeng, thack you.                                       :)

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