• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
gjbike

Fareast 28R photo album

Recommended Posts

I have created a public photo album of close up photos of my Fareast28R so anyone interested can "tour" the boat up close. I also included a few photos from the internet. I am not here to tell you my boat is better than yours or that you should buy one. This is strictly informational. Only time will tell if build quality will stand the test of time. The album is here:

 

http://s672.photobucket.com/user/gjbike123/library/Fareast%2028R

 

I like this one cause I'm really smiling inside :)FullSizeRender%202.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm certainly impressed, especially considering the price point! The final shot (#26) shows off the boat really well and it looks great.

 

Question for you: What is the story behind the lift in picture #23? Looks like something I'd like to use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those are common around here. They are made by a company called HydroHoist. Basically poly plastic tanks bolted on to swinging galvanized iron frame that bolt to the dock structure. They are coupled to air compressors and valves. The tanks fill and empty with water/air to lift/launch. I really like mine. It keeps the bottom clean and greatly suppresses wave action so they protect the boat from high wind damage. They come in various sizes. They sell for about $8K new down to $2500 for older used ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ta very much gjbike, I'll check them out. Sounds like a winner to me, not too much problem locally with persistent high winds but tidal action is a factor. The clean bottom thing is my wish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you!

 

Please keep posting. Your pictures are better than Fareast and your experience is very valuable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice boat. I have an Antrim 27 - kinda similar. I just got a quote for a Hydro Hoist and it was north of $15,000 from Oregon Marine in Portland. I think I'll just paint the fucker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

re lift- That doesn't sound right. I bought mine brand new with no discount and the price including installation was less than $8000. There are several advertised in our newsletter for $5000 and I bought a second used one for $2500 for another boat I have. Check around the marinas for a used one- they hold up for many years. Her is an example of a used one for sale:

 

http://www.tigerboatdocks.com/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/filemanager/files/used/16-HH5000SW-05_HydroHoist_5000.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not trying to steal the thread, but I got a similar quote from Hydrohoist, well dealer in TN, and it was $18,000 to VA installed. But this was for the newer one that doesn't have to bolt to the dock, but fit my Andrews 28. Anyway, too much $, but I do like them.

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure why so much difference, but these are not that difficult to install. Looks like they would fit in a small pull behind open trailer. If you bought a good used one for $5K would probably not cost more than $500-$1000 to install. Driving down and trailer rental probably not more than $1K

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a number of " upgrades" planned for my FE28R- here is the first- The companionway cover comes with snaps and Velcro fasteners. These can sometimes come loose in rain/wind. I had a custom cover made with twist type fasteners and added battens sewn in to increase support across the top. It was made in red sunbrella fabric to match the soon to be finished boom cover. The spinnaker bags also use the same fasteners and fit perfectly into that space so I had the bags redone with matching fasteners. I'll post more photos later. Still in the works are flat padded lifelines for hiking, new instruments and cutting down the forward stanchions so the jib can move in/out without having to be skirted. Stay tuned. I've added a few more pics to the album.

IMG_0910.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are short, stubby, well rounded and very polished. The tops are below the level of the deck . I don't think it will be an issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question for you: What is the story behind the lift in picture #23? Looks like something I'd like to use.

Look on Craigslist. There are a few for sale in each area of major lakes or ocean front.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

gj, is the xtreme 25 shown as for sale on the G Force website your boat or is there another in Texas?

That's mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have added a few more pics to the album from a recent regatta. I added some webbing on velcro to cover the snaps on the spinnaker bag to avoid damage to the kite. Also changing the tack line and sprit line cam cleats to small Spinlock rope clutches - the clam cleats have accidentally released under use. New sails are under construction. Getting to know the boat- had a great long weekend with an accomplished and experienced ocean racer who was able to get the expected performance from it. After 5 races over 2 days his impression was that it was a very capable boat and he liked it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

gj, is the xtreme 25 shown as for sale on the G Force website your boat or is there another in Texas?

would you mind if I pm'ed you for a few opinions re the Xtreme 25 along the lines of can she be raced 3 up, etc?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Xtreme can be sailed 3 up as far as boat handling- I've raced it many times three up. The difference is it sails faster in moderate to high wind with more ballast. The high SA/D ratio means you are often overpowered and having to spill wind by either dropping the traveler or increasing twist which in turn limits your pointing ability. The hard chines tend to limit heel so you don't round up but you will be going upwind with 20 to 25 degrees of heel and flogging the main at times. OTOH in low wind the boat move easily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The FE28R has been doing well against similar boats in regattas. Here are results fro the Sydney Harbor Regatta in the Super 30 class where it took first overall.:

http://www.topyacht.net.au/results/2016/shr/spr30/SGrp10.htm

 

here are the entrants:

https://www.topyacht.com.au/db/aus/entrants_display.php?SeriesID=3550&Task=ShowSeriesEntrants&EventID=558

 

 

Look forward to some upcoming races in Australia in 2 weeks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couple of upgrades:

3up TackTick DualMaxi dysplays with mast mount and new sails- Carbon/Technora main and Technora jib thermomoulded string laminates

 

IMG_1062.jpg

 

FullSizeRender%203.jpg

 

13987073_10206570614091590_1279220495_o_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couple of upgrades- instrument cluster of 3 dual Maxi displays and new carbon/technora laminate sails

 

P1000903.jpg

 

P1000889.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

I found that the boat is gaining traction in Sweden and the Netherlands. Is there a class organisation in place already? Anyone that can be contacted?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couple of upgrades- instrument cluster of 3 dual Maxi displays and new carbon/technora laminate sails

 

P1000903.jpg

 

P1000889.jpg

Is your main short on the hoist? Is that on purpose?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Couple of upgrades- instrument cluster of 3 dual Maxi displays and new carbon/technora laminate sails

 

P1000903.jpg

 

P1000889.jpg

 

Is your main short on the hoist? Is that on purpose?
Looks like somebody fucked up. 18 or so inches stort, and a pin head besides. Who's your sailmaker?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes it's short. Miscommunication re measurements. New sail at N/C on the way. Superbly made sail otherwise. No questions asked and all expenses to replace covered. I have purchased at least 10 sails from this sailmaker over past 5 years. First time not perfect. No complaints re quality or service from me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just so you know. "Thermo molded" better not be how they are describing/marketing those sails.

 

You have a run of the mill, broadseam sail, looks like a CSF product. Not that that is bad. Just making sure you know what you are getting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The material is a Contender product. Half carbon half Technora fibers. They are layed out in load path fashion. No taffeta and they are heat sealed so no delamination issues. Yes, they are panelled but that does not affect performance. I have bought and used sails from North, Doyle and Quantum. These are as good or better in my experience. I can't see paying 50% more for latest North DPi in a 28 ft boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why don't you bring the new toy up to Lake Travis in November for Governors Cup. We'll have 10 or so boats in A fleet. Mostly J/80s and few others that rate slightly faster. Several around the buoys races each day. Plus the lake is totally full.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When in November? The Wursfest Regatta is weekend of 13th at our club and it's the big regatta of the year. BTW if you know of available crew I'm always looking. If you ever want to just come and check out the boat I'm there pretty much every Saturday. Just send me a PM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The material is a Contender product. Half carbon half Technora fibers. They are layed out in load path fashion. No taffeta and they are heat sealed so no delamination issues. Yes, they are panelled but that does not affect performance. I have bought and used sails from North, Doyle and Quantum. These are as good or better in my experience. I can't see paying 50% more for latest North DPi in a 28 ft boat.

I agree, Broadseaming does not affect performance if done right with good design software and algorithms. that we 100% agree on.

 

When did Contender get into Membrane production? Where is their facility? Genuinely interested.

 

Also "Heat Sealing" isn't in any terms a fix for de-lamination. The glues are either Thermo-Set or Thermo-Melt. The later is bad for longevity.

Generally the Delam issues will come from Film breakdown and water wicking down the fibers or bad initial lamination. (High Technora count is tough to get good lamination)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Contender has a web site that describes their laminates. The sails came in a Contender box but the European sailmaker I use also uses Dimension-Polyant and other suppliers. BTW if you like the 4T filmless process by OneSails is now available to other sailmakers. This video I think from B-One describes the process used to make my sails well: http://www.bsails.eu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i dont dispute what you say, except I cant find any info on Contender making membrane sails. On any of their Region sites. B-Sail video is generic String sail technology. Wonder who developed their glues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, Maxx is just a Fill orientated Roll good that has structural fibers off the usual 0-90 orientation.

It has been around for Donkeys years. No way is it a membrane "string" sailcloth.

You sails are not MAXX. I am confused now..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't interrogated my sailmaker as to the exact supplier of the laminates because it doesn't matter to me. My sails are exactly as advertised to me and identical to the multiple previous ones I have had made for me by them. I have enough experience with sails from other makers to know mine are very well finished and I spend about 25% less than I used to from previous lofts for less well made sails but that may be due to my relationship with them and favorable exchange rates relative to the Euro. As I understand it there are about 3 or 4 manufacturers of string type sail cloths worldwide and most sails are made from cloth that comes from one of these. North has a proprietary method that utilizes tapes and no mylar base in their 3Di process. I have not read any convincing argument that that process produces sails that are measurably better performance wise for smaller boats that would justify their increased cost. I like my sails because they are much lighter than older style laminates and hold their shape well. I have not had any delamination or UV breakdown or loss of shape but I treat my sails well and I get new sails every 2 years. My experience has been that what makes a sail better beyond the construction quality is having the cut of the sail match your mast characteristics. My sails are designed specifically for my boat with help from computer programs and such things as mast pre-bend, max bend with backstay, and dozens of individual measurements down to distance of tack to mast in millimeters. I understand that may be normal procedure for many good lofts and I am not trying to sell anybody any sails or claim mine are better than anyone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When there's a problem (as it would appear there is), how long does it take to resolve? Seems as though "service" is not included in the deal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It takes about 4 weeks to make a new sail. The membranes have to be ordered then the sail cut and finished. The current sail is 7% smaller than I was expecting but it has same area as stock sail that came with boat. It still drives the boat perfectly well and I still reach polar performance with it. I think I will have it cut for high wind and keep it. The new sail is designed for max roach. I also have the stock sail that came with the boat which is still in good shape so no hurry on my part. I once had to return a new sail to a big US sailmaker because they put the wrong size luff rope. I had to pay the cost of shipping it back ( $100) and wait 3 weeks for repairs. Current sailmaker has agreed to absorb all shipping costs for replacement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't interrogated my sailmaker as to the exact supplier of the laminates because it doesn't matter to me. My sails are exactly as advertised to me and identical to the multiple previous ones I have had made for me by them. I have enough experience with sails from other makers to know mine are very well finished and I spend about 25% less than I used to from previous lofts for less well made sails but that may be due to my relationship with them and favorable exchange rates relative to the Euro. As I understand it there are about 3 or 4 manufacturers of string type sail cloths worldwide and most sails are made from cloth that comes from one of these. North has a proprietary method that utilizes tapes and no mylar base in their 3Di process. I have not read any convincing argument that that process produces sails that are measurably better performance wise for smaller boats that would justify their increased cost. I like my sails because they are much lighter than older style laminates and hold their shape well. I have not had any delamination or UV breakdown or loss of shape but I treat my sails well and I get new sails every 2 years. My experience has been that what makes a sail better beyond the construction quality is having the cut of the sail match your mast characteristics. My sails are designed specifically for my boat with help from computer programs and such things as mast pre-bend, max bend with backstay, and dozens of individual measurements down to distance of tack to mast in millimeters. I understand that may be normal procedure for many good lofts and I am not trying to sell anybody any sails or claim mine are better than anyone else.

Hey mate, Sorry wasnt having a dig at you. Just putting facts forward. To much miss information in the industry.

 

Interesting that Maxi72, Tp52, Farr 40 and Melges 32 World champs all use String membranes and not 3di, So your view here I agree with. In theory, I like the idea of eliminating Mylar delam issues and building all re-enforcements into the structure. But Then I ask Why? Weight? Nope, Even load distribution? Nope. Even Shrinkage? nope. Like I said i agree with you.

 

Just make sure you know what you are getting, and its not just the price that makes you happy, I see some confusion. Im sure your Sailmaker is a nice guy!

 

Also I like the boat. Awesome little machine!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I haven't interrogated my sailmaker as to the exact supplier of the laminates because it doesn't matter to me. My sails are exactly as advertised to me and identical to the multiple previous ones I have had made for me by them. I have enough experience with sails from other makers to know mine are very well finished and I spend about 25% less than I used to from previous lofts for less well made sails but that may be due to my relationship with them and favorable exchange rates relative to the Euro. As I understand it there are about 3 or 4 manufacturers of string type sail cloths worldwide and most sails are made from cloth that comes from one of these. North has a proprietary method that utilizes tapes and no mylar base in their 3Di process. I have not read any convincing argument that that process produces sails that are measurably better performance wise for smaller boats that would justify their increased cost. I like my sails because they are much lighter than older style laminates and hold their shape well. I have not had any delamination or UV breakdown or loss of shape but I treat my sails well and I get new sails every 2 years. My experience has been that what makes a sail better beyond the construction quality is having the cut of the sail match your mast characteristics. My sails are designed specifically for my boat with help from computer programs and such things as mast pre-bend, max bend with backstay, and dozens of individual measurements down to distance of tack to mast in millimeters. I understand that may be normal procedure for many good lofts and I am not trying to sell anybody any sails or claim mine are better than anyone else.

Hey mate, Sorry wasnt having a dig at you. Just putting facts forward. To much miss information in the industry.

 

Interesting that Maxi72, Tp52, Farr 40 and Melges 32 World champs all use String membranes and not 3di, So your view here I agree with. In theory, I like the idea of eliminating Mylar delam issues and building all re-enforcements into the structure. But Then I ask Why? Weight? Nope, Even load distribution? Nope. Even Shrinkage? nope. Like I said i agree with you.

 

Just make sure you know what you are getting, and its not just the price that makes you happy, I see some confusion. Im sure your Sailmaker is a nice guy!

 

Also I like the boat. Awesome little machine!

One reason is that 3di is too stiff and heavy for light air sails. There probably is a minimum number of layers to make the sail impermeable and also structurally functional. And then the strings can actually follow the loadlines whereas 3di consists of linear stripes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey gjbike

how does the Farest 28R go shorthanded. I mean, can you comfortably daysail it two people or singlehanded...how tippy is it

 

I have taken it out single handed and managed OK . Only difficulty is you can't reach the jib winches while holding on to tiller extension- at least with stock handle. The rudder hung from the back can swing almost 180 degrees so if you let go during a tack it will go full over quickly. An autopilot or even a tiller tamer type device would make tacking ok for single-handed. Two up is easy to about 8 kts wind when the boat is fully powered up and starts to heel. It's not a tippy boat with the 1300lbs in the keel bulb and with the chines. In gusts it may go to 30 deg heel qiuckly but then it takes very big gusts to heel further. Even in 30 kt gusts it will go to about 40 deg heel but it feels very controlled. The big rudder has a lot of bite and gives you a lot of confidence. Like any sportboat with large sail area you have to use the sails to steer - you're not going to easily round a mark to port without easing out the main first. I think it could be a good 2-up daysailor but you can't be competitive in high wind without another 3 persons for ballast to minimize heeling and allow for greater boat speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I haven't interrogated my sailmaker as to the exact supplier of the laminates because it doesn't matter to me. My sails are exactly as advertised to me and identical to the multiple previous ones I have had made for me by them. I have enough experience with sails from other makers to know mine are very well finished and I spend about 25% less than I used to from previous lofts for less well made sails but that may be due to my relationship with them and favorable exchange rates relative to the Euro. As I understand it there are about 3 or 4 manufacturers of string type sail cloths worldwide and most sails are made from cloth that comes from one of these. North has a proprietary method that utilizes tapes and no mylar base in their 3Di process. I have not read any convincing argument that that process produces sails that are measurably better performance wise for smaller boats that would justify their increased cost. I like my sails because they are much lighter than older style laminates and hold their shape well. I have not had any delamination or UV breakdown or loss of shape but I treat my sails well and I get new sails every 2 years. My experience has been that what makes a sail better beyond the construction quality is having the cut of the sail match your mast characteristics. My sails are designed specifically for my boat with help from computer programs and such things as mast pre-bend, max bend with backstay, and dozens of individual measurements down to distance of tack to mast in millimeters. I understand that may be normal procedure for many good lofts and I am not trying to sell anybody any sails or claim mine are better than anyone else.

Hey mate, Sorry wasnt having a dig at you. Just putting facts forward. To much miss information in the industry.

 

Interesting that Maxi72, Tp52, Farr 40 and Melges 32 World champs all use String membranes and not 3di, So your view here I agree with. In theory, I like the idea of eliminating Mylar delam issues and building all re-enforcements into the structure. But Then I ask Why? Weight? Nope, Even load distribution? Nope. Even Shrinkage? nope. Like I said i agree with you.

 

Just make sure you know what you are getting, and its not just the price that makes you happy, I see some confusion. Im sure your Sailmaker is a nice guy!

 

Also I like the boat. Awesome little machine!

 

No offense taken. It has been quite an education over the past several years learning how to get a performance boat to sail to it's design speed. I don't know if I can say with confidence how much is due to the sails, how much to rig tune, how much to trim and how much to steering and crew placement. There is no question that to point well sail shape and trim are paramount. Without proper rig tune you cannot get proper trim. The difference between all these variables being "OK" and being ideal is about 0.5 to 1 kt boat speed upwind. In racing that difference is huge- in daysailing it's negligible. There is something beautiful though in blowing past a competitor who you know should be able to best you if they were sailing their boat better. :) Right now I think well made string sails offer the best value for the performance you get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Hey gjbike

how does the Farest 28R go shorthanded. I mean, can you comfortably daysail it two people or singlehanded...how tippy is it

 

I have taken it out single handed and managed OK . Only difficulty is you can't reach the jib winches while holding on to tiller extension- at least with stock handle. The rudder hung from the back can swing almost 180 degrees so if you let go during a tack it will go full over quickly. An autopilot or even a tiller tamer type device would make tacking ok for single-handed. Two up is easy to about 8 kts wind when the boat is fully powered up and starts to heel. It's not a tippy boat with the 1300lbs in the keel bulb and with the chines. In gusts it may go to 30 deg heel qiuckly but then it takes very big gusts to heel further. Even in 30 kt gusts it will go to about 40 deg heel but it feels very controlled. The big rudder has a lot of bite and gives you a lot of confidence. Like any sportboat with large sail area you have to use the sails to steer - you're not going to easily round a mark to port without easing out the main first. I think it could be a good 2-up daysailor but you can't be competitive in high wind without another 3 persons for ballast to minimize heeling and allow for greater boat speed.

 

 

Thanks! ciao max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could I ask here, we plan to have 28r berthed in a shallow waters, abt 1-1.5 meter depth only, therefore wondering does the lifting keel option allow to lift the keel easily and on daily basis and do you have some photos of the lifting system (which comes as an option, can't find). and how deep is the rudder meanwhile? thanks
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rudder is too deep, but easy to remove and better stored in a cover. Motor in with hoisted keel an no rudder is doable but could be tricky in windy conditions 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice pics and videos.  Looks like great bang for buck.   But I do note the interior actually has less creature comforts than say my Rocket 22.  Does the manufacturer offer any interior packages for overnighting?  I.e. is the 28R meant for daysailing and racing only or can this be outfitted up to a camping level of comfort like the Seascape 27 or Antrim 27?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

absolutely nothing below for comfort- only empty space. Would not be that hard to add pipe berths, etc but I think it would defeat the intended purpose- minimum weight and max speed. I keep a Porta-potti  below for emergencies but have yet to use it.  I thought about putting in some styrofoam supports then covering that with thin plexiglass so I coud use the space under the cockpit for sail storage but haven't done it yet. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice pic- hope you got some wind. I am curious as to whether those half stanchions and pulpits are interchangeable with the FE28R. I cut mine down but would like to replace with those if they would swap out without cutting holes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, does anyone know if the self curling jib was a retrofit on the 23R or if they changed how they're shipping the boat now? Mine came with a hanked jib...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One I sailed had roller furling, head foil, yet the jib had ridget horizontal  battens... wtf? Sail maker not talking to rigger/manufacturer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's odd...I was going to say maybe the owner put the foil and furler on and converted the jib, but I see the horizontal battens and no sign of retired hank reinforcements...

oh well, so far I'm happy with the hanks... when it's light handling the jib hoist/drop is no problem and when it's breeze on we leave it up the whole time cuz that's what all the cool kidz are doing now anyway!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now