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Shootist Jeff

The serious transgender bathroom issue discussion

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

 

 

Lighten up, Francis

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

 

 

Lighten up, Francis

 

 

Sure, OK.

 

but 14 pages of this crap is prudish.

 

Millions spent on a Senate court case on whether Lewinsky sucked Clinton's dick (for another 10 bucks I'll tell you she banged him stupid on the oval office desk) .

 

The point is that conservatives here are prudish and whilst this thread is 14 fucking pages long, a thread on Lewinsky/Clinton's fucking would be 1114 pages long.

 

Prudishfuckingness

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

 

 

Lighten up, Francis

 

 

Sure, OK.

 

but 14 pages of this crap is prudish.

 

Millions spent on a Senate court case on whether Lewinsky sucked Clinton's dick (for another 10 bucks I'll tell you she banged him stupid on the oval office desk) .

 

The point is that conservatives here are prudish and whilst this thread is 14 fucking pages long, a thread on Lewinsky/Clinton's fucking would be 1114 pages long.

 

Prudishfuckingness

 

 

 

You must have me confused with someone else. I am as far from being a prude as it gets. I could give two shits who is peeing next to me. I've very comfortably used co-ed bathrooms and showers and not blinked an eye.

 

My issue is that young children should not be forced into being naked in a common changing area/shower room. Like it or not, there are perverts out there who will take advantage of a situation and could do real harm to a little girl (or boy). If the law opens it up for trans to use the girls public shower, then any man legally will be able to use that shower. You can't discriminate once you go down that path. I have no issue whatsoever with the whole trans thing..... its the real unintended consequences that are not being considered here in this rush to be so all inclusive.

 

Pinnochio - are you ok with your young daughter showering next to a naked 50 yr old hairy dude in the public shower at your sailing club?

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

 

 

Lighten up, Francis

 

 

Sure, OK.

 

but 14 pages of this crap is prudish.

 

Millions spent on a Senate court case on whether Lewinsky sucked Clinton's dick (for another 10 bucks I'll tell you she banged him stupid on the oval office desk) .

 

The point is that conservatives here are prudish and whilst this thread is 14 fucking pages long, a thread on Lewinsky/Clinton's fucking would be 1114 pages long.

 

Prudishfuckingness

 

 

 

You must have me confused with someone else. I am as far from being a prude as it gets. I could give two shits who is peeing next to me. I've very comfortably used co-ed bathrooms and showers and not blinked an eye.

 

My issue is that young children should not be forced into being naked in a common changing area/shower room. Like it or not, there are perverts out there who will take advantage of a situation and could do real harm to a little girl (or boy). If the law opens it up for trans to use the girls public shower, then any man legally will be able to use that shower. You can't discriminate once you go down that path. I have no issue whatsoever with the whole trans thing..... its the real unintended consequences that are not being considered here in this rush to be so all inclusive.

 

Pinnochio - are you ok with your young daughter showering next to a naked 50 yr old hairy dude in the public shower at your sailing club?

 

 

See… there you go.

 

My daughter tells me (right now in fact) that she has never had a shower in a common shower area like some men's bathrooms. School, university and her local surf club all have lockable cubicles. She's 20 and she reckons it's a non issue. Typically she is looking at me like I'm prudish… fer fuck's sake, I only asked for your sake.

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

How did you feel about when you were a 13 year old girl?

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

 

 

Lighten up, Francis

 

 

Sure, OK.

 

but 14 pages of this crap is prudish.

 

Millions spent on a Senate court case on whether Lewinsky sucked Clinton's dick (for another 10 bucks I'll tell you she banged him stupid on the oval office desk) .

 

The point is that conservatives here are prudish and whilst this thread is 14 fucking pages long, a thread on Lewinsky/Clinton's fucking would be 1114 pages long.

 

Prudishfuckingness

 

 

 

You must have me confused with someone else. I am as far from being a prude as it gets. I could give two shits who is peeing next to me. I've very comfortably used co-ed bathrooms and showers and not blinked an eye.

 

My issue is that young children should not be forced into being naked in a common changing area/shower room. Like it or not, there are perverts out there who will take advantage of a situation and could do real harm to a little girl (or boy). If the law opens it up for trans to use the girls public shower, then any man legally will be able to use that shower. You can't discriminate once you go down that path. I have no issue whatsoever with the whole trans thing..... its the real unintended consequences that are not being considered here in this rush to be so all inclusive.

 

Pinnochio - are you ok with your young daughter showering next to a naked 50 yr old hairy dude in the public shower at your sailing club?

 

 

See… there you go.

 

My daughter tells me (right now in fact) that she has never had a shower in a common shower area like some men's bathrooms. School, university and her local surf club all have lockable cubicles. She's 20 and she reckons it's a non issue. Typically she is looking at me like I'm prudish… fer fuck's sake, I only asked for your sake.

 

 

 

I'm fine with that. Is that true also (Lockable cubicles) for when you're getting dressed for after the shower? Or is it a common open changing area?

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

How did you feel about when you were a 13 year old girl?

 

 

You are pre-occupied. Cree-pee as JBSF would say.

 

It's a non issue. You are trying to conjure up a terrible societal problem, where there is none, to justify your prejudices against the LGBT community like they somehow occupy the bottom end of morality.

 

Show me some rich conservative people and I'll show you just as much dysfunction.

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Sure, OK.

 

 

 

 

 

but 14 pages of this crap is prudish.

 

Millions spent on a Senate court case on whether Lewinsky sucked Clinton's dick (for another 10 bucks I'll tell you she banged him stupid on the oval office desk) .

 

The point is that conservatives here are prudish and whilst this thread is 14 fucking pages long, a thread on Lewinsky/Clinton's fucking would be 1114 pages long.

 

Prudishfuckingness

 

 

 

You must have me confused with someone else. I am as far from being a prude as it gets. I could give two shits who is peeing next to me. I've very comfortably used co-ed bathrooms and showers and not blinked an eye.

 

My issue is that young children should not be forced into being naked in a common changing area/shower room. Like it or not, there are perverts out there who will take advantage of a situation and could do real harm to a little girl (or boy). If the law opens it up for trans to use the girls public shower, then any man legally will be able to use that shower. You can't discriminate once you go down that path. I have no issue whatsoever with the whole trans thing..... its the real unintended consequences that are not being considered here in this rush to be so all inclusive.

 

Pinnochio - are you ok with your young daughter showering next to a naked 50 yr old hairy dude in the public shower at your sailing club?

 

 

See… there you go.

 

My daughter tells me (right now in fact) that she has never had a shower in a common shower area like some men's bathrooms. School, university and her local surf club all have lockable cubicles. She's 20 and she reckons it's a non issue. Typically she is looking at me like I'm prudish… fer fuck's sake, I only asked for your sake.

 

 

 

I'm fine with that. Is that true also (Lockable cubicles) for when you're getting dressed for after the shower? Or is it a common open changing area?

 

No the cubicle contains a curtain, seat and clothes hook as well.

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Sure, OK.

 

 

 

 

 

but 14 pages of this crap is prudish.

 

Millions spent on a Senate court case on whether Lewinsky sucked Clinton's dick (for another 10 bucks I'll tell you she banged him stupid on the oval office desk) .

 

The point is that conservatives here are prudish and whilst this thread is 14 fucking pages long, a thread on Lewinsky/Clinton's fucking would be 1114 pages long.

 

Prudishfuckingness

 

 

You must have me confused with someone else. I am as far from being a prude as it gets. I could give two shits who is peeing next to me. I've very comfortably used co-ed bathrooms and showers and not blinked an eye.

 

My issue is that young children should not be forced into being naked in a common changing area/shower room. Like it or not, there are perverts out there who will take advantage of a situation and could do real harm to a little girl (or boy). If the law opens it up for trans to use the girls public shower, then any man legally will be able to use that shower. You can't discriminate once you go down that path. I have no issue whatsoever with the whole trans thing..... its the real unintended consequences that are not being considered here in this rush to be so all inclusive.

 

Pinnochio - are you ok with your young daughter showering next to a naked 50 yr old hairy dude in the public shower at your sailing club?

See there you go.

 

My daughter tells me (right now in fact) that she has never had a shower in a common shower area like some men's bathrooms. School, university and her local surf club all have lockable cubicles. She's 20 and she reckons it's a non issue. Typically she is looking at me like I'm prudish fer fuck's sake, I only asked for your sake.

 

I'm fine with that. Is that true also (Lockable cubicles) for when you're getting dressed for after the shower? Or is it a common open changing area?

No the cubicle contains a curtain, seat and clothes hook as well.

Cool

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

 

Lighten up, Francis

Sure, OK.

 

but 14 pages of this crap is prudish.

 

Millions spent on a Senate court case on whether Lewinsky sucked Clinton's dick (for another 10 bucks I'll tell you she banged him stupid on the oval office desk) .

 

The point is that conservatives here are prudish and whilst this thread is 14 fucking pages long, a thread on Lewinsky/Clinton's fucking would be 1114 pages long.

 

Prudishfuckingness

 

You must have me confused with someone else. I am as far from being a prude as it gets. I could give two shits who is peeing next to me. I've very comfortably used co-ed bathrooms and showers and not blinked an eye.

 

My issue is that young children should not be forced into being naked in a common changing area/shower room. Like it or not, there are perverts out there who will take advantage of a situation and could do real harm to a little girl (or boy). If the law opens it up for trans to use the girls public shower, then any man legally will be able to use that shower. You can't discriminate once you go down that path. I have no issue whatsoever with the whole trans thing..... its the real unintended consequences that are not being considered here in this rush to be so all inclusive.

 

Pinnochio - are you ok with your young daughter showering next to a naked 50 yr old hairy dude in the public shower at your sailing club?

 

Jeff, it is most definitely prudishness. Go to a Korean bathhouse. Whole families, strangers, sitting in large communal pools. Nude.

 

Your POV is valid, but based on Puritan values. Which, on the whole, have worked, BUT, sometimes they're ridiculous.

 

 

Btw, transgender females, on the whole, aren't big hairy dudes.

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

How did you feel about when you were a 13 year old girl?

You are pre-occupied. Cree-pee as JBSF would say.

 

It's a non issue. You are trying to conjure up a terrible societal problem, where there is none, to justify your prejudices against the LGBT community like they somehow occupy the bottom end of morality.

 

Show me some rich conservative people and I'll show you just as much dysfunction.

I actually had a conversation with my teenaged daughter about this. She told me absolutely would not want boys to use the Girls bathroom, changing room, and showers. She said if they tried to force that at school she would discontinue PE.

 

Please explain how my teenaged daulters beliefs and feelings are wrong. Please explain how my teenaged daughters beliefs and feelings don't matter. Please explain how your feelings and beliefs are more important than a teenaged girl who could actually be affected.

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

How did you feel about when you were a 13 year old girl?

You are pre-occupied. Cree-pee as JBSF would say.

 

It's a non issue. You are trying to conjure up a terrible societal problem, where there is none, to justify your prejudices against the LGBT community like they somehow occupy the bottom end of morality.

 

Show me some rich conservative people and I'll show you just as much dysfunction.

Cree-pee is forcing your daughter to undress in front of males when they don't want to. But I'm guessing you don't have teenaged girls of your own so don't give a shot about teenaged girls.

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

How did you feel about when you were a 13 year old girl?

You are pre-occupied. Cree-pee as JBSF would say.

 

It's a non issue. You are trying to conjure up a terrible societal problem, where there is none, to justify your prejudices against the LGBT community like they somehow occupy the bottom end of morality.

 

Show me some rich conservative people and I'll show you just as much dysfunction.

I actually had a conversation with my teenaged daughter about this. She told me absolutely would not want boys to use the Girls bathroom, changing room, and showers. She said if they tried to force that at school she would discontinue PE.

 

Please explain how my teenaged daulters beliefs and feelings are wrong. Please explain how my teenaged daughters beliefs and feelings don't matter. Please explain how your feelings and beliefs are more important than a teenaged girl who could actually be affected.

Except they aren't males. Other than that....

 

This is still a non-issue made large because all the right has is this type of shit. Trump fucked up any policy discussions. Hey, let's close the borders! Hey, let's start a trade war! Woohoo!

 

So all "reasonable" righties have is faux outrage.

 

Too fucking bad

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

 

Lighten up, Francis

Sure, OK.

 

but 14 pages of this crap is prudish.

 

Millions spent on a Senate court case on whether Lewinsky sucked Clinton's dick (for another 10 bucks I'll tell you she banged him stupid on the oval office desk) .

 

The point is that conservatives here are prudish and whilst this thread is 14 fucking pages long, a thread on Lewinsky/Clinton's fucking would be 1114 pages long.

 

Prudishfuckingness

 

You must have me confused with someone else. I am as far from being a prude as it gets. I could give two shits who is peeing next to me. I've very comfortably used co-ed bathrooms and showers and not blinked an eye.

 

My issue is that young children should not be forced into being naked in a common changing area/shower room. Like it or not, there are perverts out there who will take advantage of a situation and could do real harm to a little girl (or boy). If the law opens it up for trans to use the girls public shower, then any man legally will be able to use that shower. You can't discriminate once you go down that path. I have no issue whatsoever with the whole trans thing..... its the real unintended consequences that are not being considered here in this rush to be so all inclusive.

 

Pinnochio - are you ok with your young daughter showering next to a naked 50 yr old hairy dude in the public shower at your sailing club?

Jeff, it is most definitely prudishness. Go to a Korean bathhouse. Whole families, strangers, sitting in large communal pools. Nude.

 

Your POV is valid, but based on Puritan values. Which, on the whole, have worked, BUT, sometimes they're ridiculous.

 

 

Btw, transgender females, on the whole, aren't big hairy dudes.

I thought we were talking about the US. I didn't realize we were talking about Korea. I wouldn't comment on what is best for Koreans as I don't live there.

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

 

Lighten up, Francis

Sure, OK.

 

but 14 pages of this crap is prudish.

 

Millions spent on a Senate court case on whether Lewinsky sucked Clinton's dick (for another 10 bucks I'll tell you she banged him stupid on the oval office desk) .

 

The point is that conservatives here are prudish and whilst this thread is 14 fucking pages long, a thread on Lewinsky/Clinton's fucking would be 1114 pages long.

 

Prudishfuckingness

 

You must have me confused with someone else. I am as far from being a prude as it gets. I could give two shits who is peeing next to me. I've very comfortably used co-ed bathrooms and showers and not blinked an eye.

 

My issue is that young children should not be forced into being naked in a common changing area/shower room. Like it or not, there are perverts out there who will take advantage of a situation and could do real harm to a little girl (or boy). If the law opens it up for trans to use the girls public shower, then any man legally will be able to use that shower. You can't discriminate once you go down that path. I have no issue whatsoever with the whole trans thing..... its the real unintended consequences that are not being considered here in this rush to be so all inclusive.

 

Pinnochio - are you ok with your young daughter showering next to a naked 50 yr old hairy dude in the public shower at your sailing club?

Jeff, it is most definitely prudishness. Go to a Korean bathhouse. Whole families, strangers, sitting in large communal pools. Nude.

 

Your POV is valid, but based on Puritan values. Which, on the whole, have worked, BUT, sometimes they're ridiculous.

 

 

Btw, transgender females, on the whole, aren't big hairy dudes.

What's the limit on size and hairyness of a transgender are you proposing?

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

 

Lighten up, Francis

Sure, OK.

 

but 14 pages of this crap is prudish.

 

Millions spent on a Senate court case on whether Lewinsky sucked Clinton's dick (for another 10 bucks I'll tell you she banged him stupid on the oval office desk) .

 

The point is that conservatives here are prudish and whilst this thread is 14 fucking pages long, a thread on Lewinsky/Clinton's fucking would be 1114 pages long.

 

Prudishfuckingness

 

You must have me confused with someone else. I am as far from being a prude as it gets. I could give two shits who is peeing next to me. I've very comfortably used co-ed bathrooms and showers and not blinked an eye.

 

My issue is that young children should not be forced into being naked in a common changing area/shower room. Like it or not, there are perverts out there who will take advantage of a situation and could do real harm to a little girl (or boy). If the law opens it up for trans to use the girls public shower, then any man legally will be able to use that shower. You can't discriminate once you go down that path. I have no issue whatsoever with the whole trans thing..... its the real unintended consequences that are not being considered here in this rush to be so all inclusive.

 

Pinnochio - are you ok with your young daughter showering next to a naked 50 yr old hairy dude in the public shower at your sailing club?

Jeff, it is most definitely prudishness. Go to a Korean bathhouse. Whole families, strangers, sitting in large communal pools. Nude.

 

Your POV is valid, but based on Puritan values. Which, on the whole, have worked, BUT, sometimes they're ridiculous.

 

 

Btw, transgender females, on the whole, aren't big hairy dudes.

I thought we were talking about the US. I didn't realize we were talking about Korea. I wouldn't comment on what is best for Koreans as I don't live there.

 

Those family bath houses exist in at least 2 US cities. SF and LA

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

 

Lighten up, Francis

Sure, OK.

 

but 14 pages of this crap is prudish.

 

Millions spent on a Senate court case on whether Lewinsky sucked Clinton's dick (for another 10 bucks I'll tell you she banged him stupid on the oval office desk) .

 

The point is that conservatives here are prudish and whilst this thread is 14 fucking pages long, a thread on Lewinsky/Clinton's fucking would be 1114 pages long.

 

Prudishfuckingness

 

You must have me confused with someone else. I am as far from being a prude as it gets. I could give two shits who is peeing next to me. I've very comfortably used co-ed bathrooms and showers and not blinked an eye.

 

My issue is that young children should not be forced into being naked in a common changing area/shower room. Like it or not, there are perverts out there who will take advantage of a situation and could do real harm to a little girl (or boy). If the law opens it up for trans to use the girls public shower, then any man legally will be able to use that shower. You can't discriminate once you go down that path. I have no issue whatsoever with the whole trans thing..... its the real unintended consequences that are not being considered here in this rush to be so all inclusive.

 

Pinnochio - are you ok with your young daughter showering next to a naked 50 yr old hairy dude in the public shower at your sailing club?

Jeff, it is most definitely prudishness. Go to a Korean bathhouse. Whole families, strangers, sitting in large communal pools. Nude.

 

Your POV is valid, but based on Puritan values. Which, on the whole, have worked, BUT, sometimes they're ridiculous.

 

 

Btw, transgender females, on the whole, aren't big hairy dudes.

What's the limit on size and hairyness of a transgender are you proposing?

 

I'm not "proposing" anything. I'm laughing at you and your faux outrage. It's pretty good. You keep doubling down on the crazy.

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

How did you feel about when you were a 13 year old girl?

You are pre-occupied. Cree-pee as JBSF would say.

 

It's a non issue. You are trying to conjure up a terrible societal problem, where there is none, to justify your prejudices against the LGBT community like they somehow occupy the bottom end of morality.

 

Show me some rich conservative people and I'll show you just as much dysfunction.

I actually had a conversation with my teenaged daughter about this. She told me absolutely would not want boys to use the Girls bathroom, changing room, and showers. She said if they tried to force that at school she would discontinue PE.

 

Please explain how my teenaged daulters beliefs and feelings are wrong. Please explain how my teenaged daughters beliefs and feelings don't matter. Please explain how your feelings and beliefs are more important than a teenaged girl who could actually be affected.

Except they aren't males. Other than that....

 

This is still a non-issue made large because all the right has is this type of shit. Trump fucked up any policy discussions. Hey, let's close the borders! Hey, let's start a trade war! Woohoo!

 

So all "reasonable" righties have is faux outrage.

 

Too fucking bad

How do you tell the different between a transgender 'female' and male in the shower?

 

Also, if they were in fact female there would be no need for a change in or creation of new laws. There would in fact be no 'transgender' at all.

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JBSF...

 

in a all my years I have never been offended by a lesbian in a bathroom, homosexual in a bathroom, a bisexual in a bathroom, a transgender in a bathroom. I've probably seen it and I hadn't given it much more than 5 minutes thought and then I would have concluded that they needed to piss, shit and shower like everybody else.

 

Just grow up.

 

Prudishness is overrated.

How did you feel about when you were a 13 year old girl?

You are pre-occupied. Cree-pee as JBSF would say.

 

It's a non issue. You are trying to conjure up a terrible societal problem, where there is none, to justify your prejudices against the LGBT community like they somehow occupy the bottom end of morality.

 

Show me some rich conservative people and I'll show you just as much dysfunction.

I actually had a conversation with my teenaged daughter about this. She told me absolutely would not want boys to use the Girls bathroom, changing room, and showers. She said if they tried to force that at school she would discontinue PE.

 

Please explain how my teenaged daulters beliefs and feelings are wrong. Please explain how my teenaged daughters beliefs and feelings don't matter. Please explain how your feelings and beliefs are more important than a teenaged girl who could actually be affected.

Except they aren't males. Other than that....

 

This is still a non-issue made large because all the right has is this type of shit. Trump fucked up any policy discussions. Hey, let's close the borders! Hey, let's start a trade war! Woohoo!

 

So all "reasonable" righties have is faux outrage.

 

Too fucking bad

How do you tell the different between a transgender 'female' and male in the shower?

 

Also, if they were in fact female there would be no need for a change in or creation of new laws. There would in fact be no 'transgender' at all.

 

I'm sorry, if you're too stupid to figure that out, it's not worth a conversation.

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Cree-pee is forcing your daughter to undress in front of males when they don't want to. But I'm guessing you don't have teenaged girls of your own so don't give a shot about teenaged girls.

 

Indeed. Know what else is creepy? Forcing your sons &/or daughters to undress in front of any strangers when they don't want to - regardless of their gender. Just as I don't want my kids undressing in front of people getting off on their nakedness, I'm guessing you don't want your daughters subjected to the same. The issue there is forcing kids to get stripped in an open space, cos that exists with or without the transgender issue. Allow children to change in a cubicle like we do here and both issues disappear.

 

I look forward to your consistency and rallying against government mandated stripping of your children in public spaces.

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Here's the issue that's on everybody's mind... :ph34r:

 

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Here's the issue that's on everybody's mind... :ph34r:

 

 

I would have thought it easier to piss sitting down when you wear a skirt?

 

Who has urinals in their houses anyway?

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Cree-pee is forcing your daughter to undress in front of males when they don't want to. But I'm guessing you don't have teenaged girls of your own so don't give a shot about teenaged girls.

Indeed. Know what else is creepy? Forcing your sons &/or daughters to undress in front of any strangers when they don't want to - regardless of their gender. Just as I don't want my kids undressing in front of people getting off on their nakedness, I'm guessing you don't want your daughters subjected to the same. The issue there is forcing kids to get stripped in an open space, cos that exists with or without the transgender issue. Allow children to change in a cubicle like we do here and both issues disappear.

 

I look forward to your consistency and rallying against government mandated stripping of your children in public spaces.

I agree children shouldn't be forced to undress in front of anyone they don't want to. Where I live it's required by the government. I put my foot down when the government makes them do it front of a member of the opposite sex.

 

The case in front of the court in the state where I live will bring an end to PE classes in schools. I'm fine with that as my kids get plenty of exercise. The poor kids don't have that opportunity so they will go without. THANKS Transgenders!

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Here's the issue that's on everybody's mind... :ph34r:

 

 

 

Who has urinals in their houses anyway?

 

 

Those who can afford them?

 

Ours are all outdoors, but I can see no issue with installing one indoors just NOT in the little girls room.

 

Actually, they conserve water and septic tanks don't need to be emptied nearly so often. ;)

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I agree children shouldn't be forced to undress in front of anyone they don't want to. Where I live it's required by the government.

And that requirement by government is the problem. You should be railing against the primary cause, not the transgender symptom.

 

I put my foot down when the government makes them do it front of a member of the opposite sex.

Interesting that you're happy with lesbians watching your kids get undressed. I personally want to protect my kids from unwanted voyeurism regardless of the person's gender, sexual preference, etc.

 

The case in front of the court in the state where I live will bring an end to PE classes in schools. I'm fine with that as my kids get plenty of exercise. The poor kids don't have that opportunity so they will go without. THANKS Transgenders!

Mind linking me to that court case?

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I have said from the beginning that for me, this was not about actual full-on female looking trans in a girls shower room. I would hope that they would at least be discrete about whipping their tranny dick out in front of the girls. But whatever. What I have said I object to the most is that a gov't mandate that anyone can use the facility "of their choice" is opening pandoras box. Ripping the lid off in fact. If a full on guy says he "feels" like a woman - how do you deny him the right to use the girls shower? The answer is you cannot. How do you discriminate based on outward appearances? Does the guy have to wear a skirt first before being allowed in? Get tit implants first? Get laser hair removal? What is the criteria before you can tell a bearded man with a beer gut that he can't go shower in the girls room? How do you keep the football jock who says he's really a girl from camping out while the cheerleaders are getting changed for practice? Does a tranny HAVE to look like a stereotypical girl before he's considered a legit tranny? I don't think so.

 

Be careful what you ask for.

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The problem still seems to me to be about government mandating people strip where others can see them. The situation of some lecherous bastard walking into the toilets to look at naked kids already exists, it's just some yanks seem to think it's only a problem if they identify as transgender. If it happens to be a man who likes looking at little boys - your problem is not going to be fixed by the knee jerk reaction of old men about the transgendered.

 

Simply put, stop the government mandating your kids to get stripped where others can see them and your contrived problem goes away. No-one has to get naked if they don't want to, so they can control who sees them by choosing when & where they take their clothes off. The fact that some people will still have a problem with the idea transgendered folks can use the bathrooms suiting their gender identity after the kids are already protected is not really an issue for me. The discomfort of bigots never really bothered me.

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The problem still seems to me to be about government mandating people strip where others can see them. The situation of some lecherous bastard walking into the toilets to look at naked kids already exists, it's just some yanks seem to think it's only a problem if they identify as transgender. If it happens to be a man who likes looking at little boys - your problem is not going to be fixed by the knee jerk reaction of old men about the transgendered.

 

Simply put, stop the government mandating your kids to get stripped where others can see them and your contrived problem goes away. No-one has to get naked if they don't want to, so they can control who sees them by choosing when & where they take their clothes off. The fact that some people will still have a problem with the idea transgendered folks can use the bathrooms suiting their gender identity after the kids are already protected is not really an issue for me. The discomfort of bigots never really bothered me.

 

 

Under current law - a man could be chucked out of a girls bathroom and could be prosecuted under statutes that deal with voyeurism and lecherous conduct. I don't recall the exact titles of the statues.

 

Now, there is no way he can even be asked to leave. And the only way he could be prosecuted for perving is if he whips his dick out in the room and starts wanking off. Otherwise, he can just claim he feels like a woman and that would be his right to be there. I don't see how you could question it?

 

As for the gov't mandating people strip - you're missing the point. Most schools have requirements to participate in PE and to wear PE clothing. There will be some changing into and out of that gear at some point. Most US school facilities, IIRC although I can't speak to it now, are sex specific changing open rooms. Its never been an issue until this whole Tranny thing reared its ugly head. It would cost huge tax $$ to retrofit all schools to give every kid privacy that you suggest. Over time, it will likely go that way - but its not an immediate or cheap process.

 

And that doesn't solve all the other facilities that are not gov't mandated like above. Voluntary use facilities like gym locker rooms, hotel spas, beach and pool shower rooms run by the city, etc all would be affected by this. A perv guy could easily take advantage of this as evadent by the link that was posted in this thread a while back about the guy who went into the little girls shower room at the public pool. As long as he says he ID's as a woman, there is not a fucking thing that can be done to stop him.

 

So for a tiny tiny fraction of the population who truly are trans - we will spend billions of $$ as a nation to accommodate them at the expense of the rest of the people who are not comfortable being around them. WFD!

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Under current law - a man could be chucked out of a girls bathroom and could be prosecuted under statutes that deal with voyeurism and lecherous conduct. I don't recall the exact titles of the statues.

 

Now, there is no way he can even be asked to leave. And the only way he could be prosecuted for perving is if he whips his dick out in the room and starts wanking off. Otherwise, he can just claim he feels like a woman and that would be his right to be there. I don't see how you could question it?

 

Once again, focusing on one gender to the exclusion of the other. Under those same statutes, can a man get chucked out of a male bathroom & prosecuted for voyeurism & lecherous conduct? If so, then the same applies for your example of the male who claims he is female. If not, you're not protecting the boys who are being perved on by gay men or girls being perved on by lesbians.

 

Having looked into it, like your less recent laws regarding who can & cannot enter a given toilet, gender is not specified when it comes to voyeurism. Same goes for lecherous conduct. At least in the three states I looked at. Happy to take an example where gender is specified, but given current indications, the conduct applies regardless of gender. Intent has a lot more to do with it as does expectations of privacy from & intrusion by third parties.

 

However, even assuming you're right (& I would need to see evidence of that given you were incorrect about gender specific toilet) and can find a statute that specifies genders in public facilities for those crimes, you're still not protecting the children. You're simply pretending that it's only a problem for the sexual feelings of one gender to the opposite. Sadly, we know that isn't the case.

 

As for the gov't mandating people strip - you're missing the point. Most schools have requirements to participate in PE and to wear PE clothing. There will be some changing into and out of that gear at some point. Most US school facilities, IIRC although I can't speak to it now, are sex specific changing open rooms. Its never been an issue until this whole Tranny thing reared its ugly head. It would cost huge tax $$ to retrofit all schools to give every kid privacy that you suggest. Over time, it will likely go that way - but its not an immediate or cheap process.

I'm not missing the point, I just don't think it is as strong as you think it is. You have, quite a few times now, focused on the protection of children. I can see some validity in that view but a proper solution is to address the root issue - involuntary nudity in front of strangers. If kids have a choice about taking their clothes off, they won't need to do it in front of strangers. Problem solved. You complain, at length, about solving the root problems of violence when it comes to gun control but then whine about people seeking to do the same for other issues. Consistency isn't your strong suit is it?

 

As for the cost, sorry but I don't really have much sympathy for that line of argument. The government wants to force students to get changed at school - the government can pay for the costs of doing that. The excuse wouldn't fly if the costs of abiding by the race or religion parts of the fourteenth amendment, it doesn't apply because you find the gender part inconvenient. Or in language you'd understand "Fuck you, Fourteenth Amendment" ;)

 

And that doesn't solve all the other facilities that are not gov't mandated like above. Voluntary use facilities like gym locker rooms, hotel spas, beach and pool shower rooms run by the city, etc all would be affected by this. A perv guy could easily take advantage of this as evadent by the link that was posted in this thread a while back about the guy who went into the little girls shower room at the public pool. As long as he says he ID's as a woman, there is not a fucking thing that can be done to stop him.

Sure you can. One can arrest him on suspicion of a crime and then show in court his claims of identifying as female are false. That's the price the Fourteenth Amendment puts on treating genders equally - the fact you cannot (and the majority of the US currently does not) discriminate on gender when it comes to public legislation & facilities. The few times a case has made it to court and been appealed to the state supreme courts - those with issues against the transgendered persons have lost.

 

Clearly with that record, there must be some legal basis to their claims, though I reckon SCOTUS is going to get the last say. No-one wanted to take me up when I wagered same sex marriage would get the US Constitution tick of approval, anyone want to bet against SCOTUS pointing out that gender is not a valid discriminator for access to public bathrooms?

 

So for a tiny tiny fraction of the population who truly are trans - we will spend billions of $$ as a nation to accommodate them at the expense of the rest of the people who are not comfortable being around them. WFD!

 

Yup, and the South had to free their slaves too. Sometimes abiding by the law costs you. Imagine how much money would have been saved if the Republicans hadn't made this a national issue. One would likely have been able to continue make local exceptions to infringing the Fourteenth Amendment and let the locals deal with the costs as & when the issue was raised. Unfortunately, the big government panty police decided to make a big deal about it in the media, pass a law overriding local democracy, and now you are where you are. Nanny government sucks... sometimes.

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The problem still seems to me to be about government mandating people strip where others can see them. The situation of some lecherous bastard walking into the toilets to look at naked kids already exists, it's just some yanks seem to think it's only a problem if they identify as transgender. If it happens to be a man who likes looking at little boys - your problem is not going to be fixed by the knee jerk reaction of old men about the transgendered.

 

Simply put, stop the government mandating your kids to get stripped where others can see them and your contrived problem goes away. No-one has to get naked if they don't want to, so they can control who sees them by choosing when & where they take their clothes off. The fact that some people will still have a problem with the idea transgendered folks can use the bathrooms suiting their gender identity after the kids are already protected is not really an issue for me. The discomfort of bigots never really bothered me.

 

Under current law - a man could be chucked out of a girls bathroom and could be prosecuted under statutes that deal with voyeurism and lecherous conduct. I don't recall the exact titles of the statues.

 

Now, there is no way he can even be asked to leave. And the only way he could be prosecuted for perving is if he whips his dick out in the room and starts wanking off. Otherwise, he can just claim he feels like a woman and that would be his right to be there. I don't see how you could question it?

 

As for the gov't mandating people strip - you're missing the point. Most schools have requirements to participate in PE and to wear PE clothing. There will be some changing into and out of that gear at some point. Most US school facilities, IIRC although I can't speak to it now, are sex specific changing open rooms. Its never been an issue until this whole Tranny thing reared its ugly head. It would cost huge tax $$ to retrofit all schools to give every kid privacy that you suggest. Over time, it will likely go that way - but its not an immediate or cheap process.

 

And that doesn't solve all the other facilities that are not gov't mandated like above. Voluntary use facilities like gym locker rooms, hotel spas, beach and pool shower rooms run by the city, etc all would be affected by this. A perv guy could easily take advantage of this as evadent by the link that was posted in this thread a while back about the guy who went into the little girls shower room at the public pool. As long as he says he ID's as a woman, there is not a fucking thing that can be done to stop him.

 

So for a tiny tiny fraction of the population who truly are trans - we will spend billions of $$ as a nation to accommodate them at the expense of the rest of the people who are not comfortable being around them. WFD!

Tell ya what Jeff. If you care about kids in the locker room, you would want to "do something" about the same sex pedophiles who are already there. You know, the Hasterts of the world. You wouldn't spend all this Imagine! time worrying about what-ifs.

 

But you don't. Why?

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are you ok with your young daughter showering next to a naked 50 yr old hairy dude in the public shower at your sailing club?

 

the law doesn't say a trans person has to use the bathroom / changing room that correlates to their genitals.

 

It says they have to use the bathroom / changing room that conforms to their birth certificate.

 

So... you're perfectly fine with forcing your daughter to see some hairy dude's dick in the shower / changing room... so long as that dude used to be a woman?

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The problem still seems to me to be about government mandating people strip where others can see them. The situation of some lecherous bastard walking into the toilets to look at naked kids already exists, it's just some yanks seem to think it's only a problem if they identify as transgender. If it happens to be a man who likes looking at little boys - your problem is not going to be fixed by the knee jerk reaction of old men about the transgendered.

 

Simply put, stop the government mandating your kids to get stripped where others can see them and your contrived problem goes away. No-one has to get naked if they don't want to, so they can control who sees them by choosing when & where they take their clothes off. The fact that some people will still have a problem with the idea transgendered folks can use the bathrooms suiting their gender identity after the kids are already protected is not really an issue for me. The discomfort of bigots never really bothered me.

 

Under current law - a man could be chucked out of a girls bathroom and could be prosecuted under statutes that deal with voyeurism and lecherous conduct. I don't recall the exact titles of the statues.

 

Now, there is no way he can even be asked to leave. And the only way he could be prosecuted for perving is if he whips his dick out in the room and starts wanking off. Otherwise, he can just claim he feels like a woman and that would be his right to be there. I don't see how you could question it?

 

As for the gov't mandating people strip - you're missing the point. Most schools have requirements to participate in PE and to wear PE clothing. There will be some changing into and out of that gear at some point. Most US school facilities, IIRC although I can't speak to it now, are sex specific changing open rooms. Its never been an issue until this whole Tranny thing reared its ugly head. It would cost huge tax $$ to retrofit all schools to give every kid privacy that you suggest. Over time, it will likely go that way - but its not an immediate or cheap process.

 

And that doesn't solve all the other facilities that are not gov't mandated like above. Voluntary use facilities like gym locker rooms, hotel spas, beach and pool shower rooms run by the city, etc all would be affected by this. A perv guy could easily take advantage of this as evadent by the link that was posted in this thread a while back about the guy who went into the little girls shower room at the public pool. As long as he says he ID's as a woman, there is not a fucking thing that can be done to stop him.

 

So for a tiny tiny fraction of the population who truly are trans - we will spend billions of $$ as a nation to accommodate them at the expense of the rest of the people who are not comfortable being around them. WFD!

Tell ya what Jeff. If you care about kids in the locker room, you would want to "do something" about the same sex pedophiles who are already there. You know, the Hasterts of the world. You wouldn't spend all this Imagine! time worrying about what-ifs.

 

But you don't. Why?

 

That's a fair topic, why don't you start a thread about it, maybe he would weigh in.

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The problem still seems to me to be about government mandating people strip where others can see them. The situation of some lecherous bastard walking into the toilets to look at naked kids already exists, it's just some yanks seem to think it's only a problem if they identify as transgender. If it happens to be a man who likes looking at little boys - your problem is not going to be fixed by the knee jerk reaction of old men about the transgendered.

 

Simply put, stop the government mandating your kids to get stripped where others can see them and your contrived problem goes away. No-one has to get naked if they don't want to, so they can control who sees them by choosing when & where they take their clothes off. The fact that some people will still have a problem with the idea transgendered folks can use the bathrooms suiting their gender identity after the kids are already protected is not really an issue for me. The discomfort of bigots never really bothered me.

 

Under current law - a man could be chucked out of a girls bathroom and could be prosecuted under statutes that deal with voyeurism and lecherous conduct. I don't recall the exact titles of the statues.

 

Now, there is no way he can even be asked to leave. And the only way he could be prosecuted for perving is if he whips his dick out in the room and starts wanking off. Otherwise, he can just claim he feels like a woman and that would be his right to be there. I don't see how you could question it?

 

As for the gov't mandating people strip - you're missing the point. Most schools have requirements to participate in PE and to wear PE clothing. There will be some changing into and out of that gear at some point. Most US school facilities, IIRC although I can't speak to it now, are sex specific changing open rooms. Its never been an issue until this whole Tranny thing reared its ugly head. It would cost huge tax $$ to retrofit all schools to give every kid privacy that you suggest. Over time, it will likely go that way - but its not an immediate or cheap process.

 

And that doesn't solve all the other facilities that are not gov't mandated like above. Voluntary use facilities like gym locker rooms, hotel spas, beach and pool shower rooms run by the city, etc all would be affected by this. A perv guy could easily take advantage of this as evadent by the link that was posted in this thread a while back about the guy who went into the little girls shower room at the public pool. As long as he says he ID's as a woman, there is not a fucking thing that can be done to stop him.

 

So for a tiny tiny fraction of the population who truly are trans - we will spend billions of $$ as a nation to accommodate them at the expense of the rest of the people who are not comfortable being around them. WFD!

Tell ya what Jeff. If you care about kids in the locker room, you would want to "do something" about the same sex pedophiles who are already there. You know, the Hasterts of the world. You wouldn't spend all this Imagine! time worrying about what-ifs.

 

But you don't. Why?

That's a fair topic, why don't you start a thread about it, maybe he would weigh in.

Why bother?

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I gather from this thread that the more hair on a body the more damaging to the psyche of a young girl if she happens to see it.

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This is a stupid thread.

 

Let's try some drift.

 

Durant to the GSW. Lebron, they're coming for you.

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I agree children shouldn't be forced to undress in front of anyone they don't want to. Where I live it's required by the government.

And that requirement by government is the problem. You should be railing against the primary cause, not the transgender symptom.

 

I put my foot down when the government makes them do it front of a member of the opposite sex.

Interesting that you're happy with lesbians watching your kids get undressed. I personally want to protect my kids from unwanted voyeurism regardless of the person's gender, sexual preference, etc.

 

The case in front of the court in the state where I live will bring an end to PE classes in schools. I'm fine with that as my kids get plenty of exercise. The poor kids don't have that opportunity so they will go without. THANKS Transgenders!

Mind linking me to that court case?

It will be railed against pretty soon. I did my part for my oldest - drs note gets you out of PE.

 

SS far as the case hors - pretty easy to Google it. You recall the boy who had the federal judge mandate he be allowed to use the Girls locker room? The girls don't want him in there.

 

Like I said - good bye girls PE.

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The problem still seems to me to be about government mandating people strip where others can see them. The situation of some lecherous bastard walking into the toilets to look at naked kids already exists, it's just some yanks seem to think it's only a problem if they identify as transgender. If it happens to be a man who likes looking at little boys - your problem is not going to be fixed by the knee jerk reaction of old men about the transgendered.

 

Simply put, stop the government mandating your kids to get stripped where others can see them and your contrived problem goes away. No-one has to get naked if they don't want to, so they can control who sees them by choosing when & where they take their clothes off. The fact that some people will still have a problem with the idea transgendered folks can use the bathrooms suiting their gender identity after the kids are already protected is not really an issue for me. The discomfort of bigots never really bothered me.

Actually if a man goes into a woman's bathroom, locker room he may be prosecuted. If laws are passed that he can go in there nothing can be done - short of being beaten.

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It will be railed against pretty soon. I did my part for my oldest - drs note gets you out of PE.

SS far as the case hors - pretty easy to Google it. You recall the boy who had the federal judge mandate he be allowed to use the Girls locker room? The girls don't want him in there.

 

Like I said - good bye girls PE.

 

Ah, so the court case will not actually do anything about the mandate for PE, it simply addresses the use of the change room. Thought you had found one that actually addressed the issue you said it did.

 

Going to need another case to deal with the government mandated stripping of children in front of people they don't want to

(i.e. forcing children to change in front of each other and their teachers for PE). The one you reference doesn't concern itself with those laws - it simply addresses the applicability of the Fourteenth Amendment to change room usage (i.e. whether the government can prohibit / mandate actions based on gender alone).

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Actually if a man goes into a woman's bathroom, locker room he may be prosecuted. If laws are passed that he can go in there nothing can be done - short of being beaten.

 

Still waiting for the law in question that specifies it is his gender that allows that prosecution to take place. The state laws I looked at specify that the criteria for having committed the crime are to do with intent and actions whilst in the bathroom / locker room. Simply entering the facility is not enough to prove the crime.

 

Given you are so adamant I'm wrong about that - I'm sure you'll be able to provide the statue in question that specifies the gender specifications of the crimes you claim he'll be prosecuted for. I await your inevitable spin when you realise that the laws don't say what you wish they did.

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Under current law - a man could be chucked out of a girls bathroom and could be prosecuted under statutes that deal with voyeurism and lecherous conduct. I don't recall the exact titles of the statues.

 

Now, there is no way he can even be asked to leave. And the only way he could be prosecuted for perving is if he whips his dick out in the room and starts wanking off. Otherwise, he can just claim he feels like a woman and that would be his right to be there. I don't see how you could question it?

Once again, focusing on one gender to the exclusion of the other. Under those same statutes, can a man get chucked out of a male bathroom & prosecuted for voyeurism & lecherous conduct? If so, then the same applies for your example of the male who claims he is female. If not, you're not protecting the boys who are being perved on by gay men or girls being perved on by lesbians.

 

Having looked into it, like your less recent laws regarding who can & cannot enter a given toilet, gender is not specified when it comes to voyeurism. Same goes for lecherous conduct. At least in the three states I looked at. Happy to take an example where gender is specified, but given current indications, the conduct applies regardless of gender. Intent has a lot more to do with it as does expectations of privacy from & intrusion by third parties.

 

However, even assuming you're right (& I would need to see evidence of that given you were incorrect about gender specific toilet) and can find a statute that specifies genders in public facilities for those crimes, you're still not protecting the children. You're simply pretending that it's only a problem for the sexual feelings of one gender to the opposite. Sadly, we know that isn't the case.

As for the gov't mandating people strip - you're missing the point. Most schools have requirements to participate in PE and to wear PE clothing. There will be some changing into and out of that gear at some point. Most US school facilities, IIRC although I can't speak to it now, are sex specific changing open rooms. Its never been an issue until this whole Tranny thing reared its ugly head. It would cost huge tax $$ to retrofit all schools to give every kid privacy that you suggest. Over time, it will likely go that way - but its not an immediate or cheap process.

I'm not missing the point, I just don't think it is as strong as you think it is. You have, quite a few times now, focused on the protection of children. I can see some validity in that view but a proper solution is to address the root issue - involuntary nudity in front of strangers. If kids have a choice about taking their clothes off, they won't need to do it in front of strangers. Problem solved. You complain, at length, about solving the root problems of violence when it comes to gun control but then whine about people seeking to do the same for other issues. Consistency isn't your strong suit is it?

 

As for the cost, sorry but I don't really have much sympathy for that line of argument. The government wants to force students to get changed at school - the government can pay for the costs of doing that. The excuse wouldn't fly if the costs of abiding by the race or religion parts of the fourteenth amendment, it doesn't apply because you find the gender part inconvenient. Or in language you'd understand "Fuck you, Fourteenth Amendment" ;)

And that doesn't solve all the other facilities that are not gov't mandated like above. Voluntary use facilities like gym locker rooms, hotel spas, beach and pool shower rooms run by the city, etc all would be affected by this. A perv guy could easily take advantage of this as evadent by the link that was posted in this thread a while back about the guy who went into the little girls shower room at the public pool. As long as he says he ID's as a woman, there is not a fucking thing that can be done to stop him.

Sure you can. One can arrest him on suspicion of a crime and then show in court his claims of identifying as female are false. That's the price the Fourteenth Amendment puts on treating genders equally - the fact you cannot (and the majority of the US currently does not) discriminate on gender when it comes to public legislation & facilities. The few times a case has made it to court and been appealed to the state supreme courts - those with issues against the transgendered persons have lost.

 

Clearly with that record, there must be some legal basis to their claims, though I reckon SCOTUS is going to get the last say. No-one wanted to take me up when I wagered same sex marriage would get the US Constitution tick of approval, anyone want to bet against SCOTUS pointing out that gender is not a valid discriminator for access to public bathrooms?

So for a tiny tiny fraction of the population who truly are trans - we will spend billions of $$ as a nation to accommodate them at the expense of the rest of the people who are not comfortable being around them. WFD!

Yup, and the South had to free their slaves too. Sometimes abiding by the law costs you. Imagine how much money would have been saved if the Republicans hadn't made this a national issue. One would likely have been able to continue make local exceptions to infringing the Fourteenth Amendment and let the locals deal with the costs as & when the issue was raised. Unfortunately, the big government panty police decided to make a big deal about it in the media, pass a law overriding local democracy, and now you are where you are. Nanny government sucks... sometimes.

Gym I used to work out at had a flaming openly gay giygiy. He was a nice guy and hilarious. Never used the locker room. I'm sure he knew better.

 

Only reasons a male wants to use the women's facilities are lisciviouse, looking for attention, or afraid of how the guys would treat them.

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Gym I used to work out at had a flaming openly gay giygiy. He was a nice guy and hilarious. Never used the locker room. I'm sure he knew better.

Uh huh. Thing is, despite your pitiful chest-beating about the matter, he is legally allowed to use that locker room. If one is serious about protecting the children, one would make a law that stops forcing kids to get stripped where men who have a thing for young boys can openly watch them. As people are not interested in addressing that, but are all up in arms about the transgendered, there is clearly another reason for their actions. As SCOTUS has shown repeatedly of late, that's going to get stomped on by the US Constitution.

 

Only reasons a male wants to use the women's facilities are lisciviouse, looking for attention, or afraid of how the guys would treat them.

Yes, we al know why you might use women's facilities. Thankfully for the world in general, not all men are like you. I use public toilets for one reason - to take a leak or a shit.

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Only reasons a male wants to use the women's facilities are lisciviouse, looking for attention, or afraid of how the guys would treat them.

Ding, ding, ding...

 

It's not like homophobic straight men haven't given them plenty of reason to be afraid.

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Gym I used to work out at had a flaming openly gay giygiy. He was a nice guy and hilarious. Never used the locker room. I'm sure he knew better.

Uh huh. Thing is, despite your pitiful chest-beating about the matter, he is legally allowed to use that locker room. If one is serious about protecting the children, one would make a law that stops forcing kids to get stripped where men who have a thing for young boys can openly watch them. As people are not interested in addressing that, but are all up in arms about the transgendered, there is clearly another reason for their actions. As SCOTUS has shown repeatedly of late, that's going to get stomped on by the US Constitution.

 

Only reasons a male wants to use the women's facilities are lisciviouse, looking for attention, or afraid of how the guys would treat them.

Yes, we al know why you might use women's facilities. Thankfully for the world in general, not all men are like you. I use public toilets for one reason - to take a leak or a shit.

You use the Ladies Room?

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Only reasons a male wants to use the women's facilities are lisciviouse, looking for attention, or afraid of how the guys would treat them.

Ding, ding, ding...

 

It's not like homophobic straight men haven't given them plenty of reason to be afraid.

 

 

They like to slap them on the ass or try to grab their nut sack. No, really.

 

Actually, the worse thing you can do to a transvestite is to ignore it.

 

That's what they fear the most...

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Gym I used to work out at had a flaming openly gay giygiy. He was a nice guy and hilarious. Never used the locker room. I'm sure he knew better.

Uh huh. Thing is, despite your pitiful chest-beating about the matter, he is legally allowed to use that locker room. If one is serious about protecting the children, one would make a law that stops forcing kids to get stripped where men who have a thing for young boys can openly watch them. As people are not interested in addressing that, but are all up in arms about the transgendered, there is clearly another reason for their actions. As SCOTUS has shown repeatedly of late, that's going to get stomped on by the US Constitution.

 

Only reasons a male wants to use the women's facilities are lisciviouse, looking for attention, or afraid of how the guys would treat them.

Yes, we al know why you might use women's facilities. Thankfully for the world in general, not all men are like you. I use public toilets for one reason - to take a leak or a shit.

Queer guy not using the gym locker room has nothing to do with what's legal or not. He was smart enough to avoid the risk of unwanted treatment from those in the locker room and the embarassment of being told by the owner he was no longer welcome there. Neither of those have anything to do with whether or not it was legal for him to be there.

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You use the Ladies Room?

I've done so in the past, yes. Just as my wife has ducked into the men's when the "ladies room" was closed.

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Only reasons a male wants to use the women's facilities are lisciviouse, looking for attention, or afraid of how the guys would treat them.

Ding, ding, ding...

 

It's not like homophobic straight men haven't given them plenty of reason to be afraid.

What's the name for gay guys who are afraid of straight men?

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Queer guy not using the gym locker room has nothing to do with what's legal or not. He was smart enough to avoid the risk of unwanted treatment from those in the locker room and the embarassment of being told by the owner he was no longer welcome there. Neither of those have anything to do with whether or not it was legal for him to be there.

If it has nothing to do with whether it's legal or not, it is pretty much irrelevant. We all know you feel unsafe around the gays, that they feel unsafe around you & your 'elk' is not terribly surprising or germane to the subject at hand.

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You use the Ladies Room?

I've done so in the past, yes. Just as my wife has ducked into the men's when the "ladies room" was closed.

And the ladies didn't say anything? You must blend in well.

 

I don't think any guys give a damn if a lady uses the men's room when they are in there. My wife very rarely uses public restrooms cause they are "disgusting".

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And the ladies didn't say anything? You must blend in well.

 

Wasn't anyone else in there last time I recall doing so. Possibly was the time before. Either way, didn't register as that big a deal. Not something I do very often, not the world-ending issue you seem to think it is when I do.

 

I don't think any guys give a damn if a lady uses the men's room when they are in there. My wife very rarely uses public restrooms cause they are "disgusting".

I honestly don't care who else uses which bathrooms for taking a shit. That you have issues with gay men taking a shit on the same toilet bowl you may also sit on is pretty fucking weird.

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Nope Saorsa - that can't happen - the T's aren't wired like that. Gotta be a right-wing conspiracy.

 

O and Flash said so - and where they live? I suspect that they've got a broader experience base supporting their opinions than I do mine.

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There is a new business building being erected near my shop.

They haven't yet out the signs on the restroom doors.

 

The standing overly used joke is " we have to wait and see who uses them to know which signs to put on the doors "

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There is a new business building being erected near my shop.

They haven't yet out the signs on the restroom doors.

 

The standing overly used joke is " we have to wait and see who uses them to know which signs to put on the doors "

 

Oh boy, that's a real knee slapper.. coffee1.gif

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America - Home of the Brave.....

 

Unless you're a conservative - then you're afraid of everything.

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Well, it does provide a shiny issue for Trump to play with when he gets back. You know after his brief layover in Covfefe.

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On Sunday, July 03, 2016 at 1:56 AM, Pinocchio said:

 

Sure, OK.

 

but 14 pages of this crap is prudish.

 

Millions spent on a Senate court case on whether Lewinsky sucked Clinton's dick (for another 10 bucks I'll tell you she banged him stupid on the oval office desk) .

 

The point is that conservatives here are prudish and whilst this thread is 14 fucking pages long, a thread on Lewinsky/Clinton's fucking would be 1114 pages long.

 

Prudishfuckingness

And yet the outrage of grabbing them by the pussy remarks.

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So has anyone here thought about what it really means to be trans?  I hate to burst your bubble, but you don't just wake up one day and say "I think I feel like a woman today (if you are a man) so I am going to use the lady's room."  It doesn't work that way.  If it does, and that person goes into the room to leer at the cis females, then he is not trans, but a pervert, and we have laws against that sort of thing.

Actually, for the vast majority of the trans population, they have to endure a lot of counseling, because its really hard when your brain tells you one thing, and your anatomy another.  What many here seem to be forgetting, or simply don't understand is that trans people don't feel like the sex of their anatomy.  They feel what their brain tells them.  And this feeling doesn't hit them all at once.  Its something they have had to live with their entire lives, and its confusing as fuck, and many of them have serious depression issues until they get their stuff sorted out.  Usually through professional help.  So after two or three years of therapy, these individuals finally feel comfortable enough to identify as the gender their brain tells them they should be.  So at that point, while a trans individual may have a penis, that individual identifies, not feels, as feelings in the connotations of many seem to be temporary, like a female.  

And just like any cis (naturally born in both anatomy and identity) female probably does not want to go into the men's room for fear of assault.

So perhaps instead of freaking out the next time you see a male to female trans individual in the lady's room, remember that the individual in question is really just a female.  She just happens to have different plumbing than your wife or daughter.

So you could choose tolerance and acceptance, or go the neo-conservative evangelical route and do what Jesus would do....ridicule, defame, humiliate, and possibly assault that person.  Because that's what Jesus would do, right Christians?  (if you can't tell from the typing the complete contempt I have for these hate filled hypocritical evangelicals, Its yuuuuge)

I write the above because for a while, I was indifferent to the issues of trans individuals.  Largely because I knew no trans individuals.  Then a student joined my after school aeronautics program, who's brother was a female to male transgendered individual.  And while building model aircraft, I found out about the attempted suicides, and the counseling, and the fears, and basically everything this (trans) student and his family went through while trying to come to grips with this gender identity issue.  That kid started coming to club a few weeks later, as he knew that my room is a place where hate speech, oppression, violence, bigotry, racism etc are simply not tolerated nor allowed.  So I talked to this kid a lot, and found out a lot about his and what its like to be trans in America.  

Bottom line is that many Americans seem incapable of treating people who are not exactly like them with any sort of decency or compassion what so ever.  This current administration has capitalized on that quality and basically told people that it's okay to treat people who are different like shit (paraphrasing, but its what the people heard, whether purposefully or accidentally implied).

Look inside yourself and decide if you really want to be a hate filled individual.  If you call yourself a Christian, seriously ask yourself, what would Jesus do?  If you are not a Christian, then ask yourself "how will this enrich my life and the lives of those around me?"  I'll give you a hint, though the source may differ, the end result is that its always best to be good to one another.  Or at worst indifferent.

 Really, how much better would the world be if the worst of humanity were simply indifferent?

 

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23 minutes ago, sail611 said:

So has anyone here thought about what it really means to be trans?  I hate to burst your bubble, but you don't just wake up one day and say "I think I feel like a woman today (if you are a man) so I am going to use the lady's room."  It doesn't work that way.  If it does, and that person goes into the room to leer at the cis females, then he is not trans, but a pervert, and we have laws against that sort of thing.

Actually, for the vast majority of the trans population, they have to endure a lot of counseling, because its really hard when your brain tells you one thing, and your anatomy another.  What many here seem to be forgetting, or simply don't understand is that trans people don't feel like the sex of their anatomy.  They feel what their brain tells them.  And this feeling doesn't hit them all at once.  Its something they have had to live with their entire lives, and its confusing as fuck, and many of them have serious depression issues until they get their stuff sorted out.  Usually through professional help.  So after two or three years of therapy, these individuals finally feel comfortable enough to identify as the gender their brain tells them they should be.  So at that point, while a trans individual may have a penis, that individual identifies, not feels, as feelings in the connotations of many seem to be temporary, like a female.  

And just like any cis (naturally born in both anatomy and identity) female probably does not want to go into the men's room for fear of assault.

So perhaps instead of freaking out the next time you see a male to female trans individual in the lady's room, remember that the individual in question is really just a female.  She just happens to have different plumbing than your wife or daughter.

So you could choose tolerance and acceptance, or go the neo-conservative evangelical route and do what Jesus would do....ridicule, defame, humiliate, and possibly assault that person.  Because that's what Jesus would do, right Christians?  (if you can't tell from the typing the complete contempt I have for these hate filled hypocritical evangelicals, Its yuuuuge)

I write the above because for a while, I was indifferent to the issues of trans individuals.  Largely because I knew no trans individuals.  Then a student joined my after school aeronautics program, who's brother was a female to male transgendered individual.  And while building model aircraft, I found out about the attempted suicides, and the counseling, and the fears, and basically everything this (trans) student and his family went through while trying to come to grips with this gender identity issue.  That kid started coming to club a few weeks later, as he knew that my room is a place where hate speech, oppression, violence, bigotry, racism etc are simply not tolerated nor allowed.  So I talked to this kid a lot, and found out a lot about his and what its like to be trans in America.  

Bottom line is that many Americans seem incapable of treating people who are not exactly like them with any sort of decency or compassion what so ever.  This current administration has capitalized on that quality and basically told people that it's okay to treat people who are different like shit (paraphrasing, but its what the people heard, whether purposefully or accidentally implied).

Look inside yourself and decide if you really want to be a hate filled individual.  If you call yourself a Christian, seriously ask yourself, what would Jesus do?  If you are not a Christian, then ask yourself "how will this enrich my life and the lives of those around me?"  I'll give you a hint, though the source may differ, the end result is that its always best to be good to one another.  Or at worst indifferent.

 Really, how much better would the world be if the worst of humanity were simply indifferent?

 

Thought about what it really means to be trans? On this forum?  You must be lost. 

 

If the trans folks want to know what it means to be trans, they should ask an old white male for the True Story. Same goes for the wimminfolk. Nobody knows women's issues like old white dudes  

 

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Sol & Sail - your perspective as it pertains to helping/protecting the identity confused is valid.  Do you think that that perspective puts the plight of the identity-issue kids above the majority of the other kids?  Do you think that there is a probability of misuse of dispensations afforded to identity issue kids by those who want to "prove a point"?   Do you think that the fact that the ability to apply situational discretion has been largely stripped from teachers and school administrators would permit appropriate situational application of prescribed dispensation? 

 

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I think the biggest problem is that we as a society consider individuals who are legitimately trans to have identity issues.  Yes, in the beginning, the identity thing is an issue for the individual.  The body is built one way, society is telling that person they should act as their body is, yet their brain is telling them another.  Its terribly conflicting and confusing for the individual.  Once that individual overcomes those initial issues, then it no longer is an issue.  But society still feels the need to make it one.

WRT to the rights of the majority of cis individuals, do any of the boys freak out when another man uses the men's room?  Do any of the cis girls freak out when another woman uses the lady's room?  What we need to wrap our minds around here is that trans individuals are not like Alex Jones, making shit up an playing a part.  We need to remember and accept that these individuals should not be thought of as people that made a choice to join another gender, but rather people born with the wrong plumbing for their gender.  I asked the trans student I worked with when he realized he was a boy instead of a girl and he told me "when I was three and my brother was born.  I asked my mom why he had a penis and I didn't..."

WRT situational discretion, I can't really comment as I haven't seen it be an issue.  The students in my building are actually really accepting of their peers, and for that I applaud them.  For a while, the few trans kids in the building were allowed to use a unisex bathroom, but eventually just started using the men's room.  Interestingly enough, we have no m-f trans population, only f-m.  So they use the men's room.  Nobody cares.  Well actually some do.  Wal Mart bathrooms are apparently bad for trans people.  Student from above went into the men's room at a Wal Mart (because he is a he...remember that) and had a bunch of dude's trying to check out his junk to see if he had the right plumbing.  Funny thing that, because they are the same people that don't want no perverts in their bathroom, yet have no problem staring at the genitalia of another person...interesting.

As for students trying to prove a point, none so far have tried it.  I think our adolescents are actually smart enough to realize that the gender thing is not taken lightly, and if you just go into the "other" bathroom to see what happens, you are in deep shit with the admins.  I would imagine that if a student tried that in my building and said they woke up feeling like they were of the opposite sex today, it wouldn't fly.  There would be the questions of how much counseling have you received, who have you talked to, what have you discussed with your parents/guardians, etc.

 

Now, could somebody abuse the bathroom thing?  I guess.  I mean if someone really wanted to, I guess a perv could go into a restroom of the opposite sex to creep on the occupants, but again, that is not a trans individual using the bathroom of their gender identity, that is a pervert being a pervert, and its illegal and there are consequences.  Being as not even Fox or Breitbart has reported an instance of it happening (and if it did happen, those two would jump all over to prove their stance) I would assume it has yet to happen.

If we want to, we can play the what if game about every single situation in life, all the time.  But for now, how about we have those difficult conversations with our kids, so that when they see a friend with two moms or two dads, or somebody a little different looking minding their own business in the bathroom (that's the key...minding their own business...I don't want my kids making any deal out of that, but if there is a legit pervert in there, not minding his/her own business, it should absolutely be reported), they know how to act with tolerance, instead of ignorance and ridicule.  

These things are not hard.  We simply need to realize that despite all of our physical differences, genetically we are all the same.  We are all human.  So why not treat each other as such?

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