The serious transgender bathroom issue discussion

[sail611 62]

If an individual intent on violating the privacy of another individual wakes up one day and says "i am going to claim I am a member of the opposite sex just so I can use that restroom" and then stare at the genitalia of the users of that restroom, that is a problem and should be addressed as such.

As to accommodation and why now, probably because some insecure paranoid ass evangelical conservatives saw a trans person in a bathroom and freaked out about it, causing a new wave of discrimination against these people, and they just want to be left alone to do their business.  Or maybe because after the most recent election those who want to discriminate, but have been silenced by societal pressures to not discriminate, suddenly feel empowered to be discriminatory.

What I really want to know is why conservatives have a problem with women using the women's room, even though those women may have been born with male genitalia?

[A guy in the Chesapeake 647]

Just now, Sol Rosenberg said:

Because now there are efforts to constrain what had to relatively recent times been their choice.  Asking to be left alone as they always had been is not asking for accommodation.  Telling the government to stay out of your life as it always had, when it recently started making decisions for you, is not asking for accommodation.  It is telling the government to back off.  

This is yet another case of a solution in search of a problem, being used to divide people.  

IIRC, and will be happy to be corrected - the original case came about because a trans-kid in NC's parents sued a school board because their son who wanted to be a daughter wasn't permitted into the girl's locker room.   The "efforts to constrain", IIRC, were in response to that incident.   "Live and let live" or "make everyone else around me accommodate how I want reality defined"?     AFAIC, that seems to be the operative question. 

[A guy in the Chesapeake 647]

1 minute ago, sail611 said:

If an individual intent on violating the privacy of another individual wakes up one day and says "i am going to claim I am a member of the opposite sex just so I can use that restroom" and then stare at the genitalia of the users of that restroom, that is a problem and should be addressed as such.

As to accommodation and why now, probably because some insecure paranoid ass evangelical conservatives saw a trans person in a bathroom and freaked out about it, causing a new wave of discrimination against these people, and they just want to be left alone to do their business.  Or maybe because after the most recent election those who want to discriminate, but have been silenced by societal pressures to not discriminate, suddenly feel empowered to be discriminatory.

What I really want to know is why conservatives have a problem with women using the women's room, even though those women may have been born with male genitalia?

You're intentionally misconstruing the issue. girls in the girls locker room are fine - but, a person with a penis isn't a girl, as much as some may want to change that physiological fact.  Some things just are - as much as some may wish it were different.  

 

[sail611 62]

3 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

You're intentionally misconstruing the issue. girls in the girls locker room are fine - but, a person with a penis isn't a girl, as much as some may want to change that physiological fact.  Some things just are - as much as some may wish it were different.  

 

And that is factual how?  What is the scientific basis for that statement?  Are you an expert in brain formation with respect to gender identity?  Do you deny that the brain is what defines the self?

Your explanation is simple, and people like simple, but in being so simple, it  dismisses a serious aspect of being human, to the point of being dangerous if enough people accept that simplistic view of what it is to be a person.

Seriously, how many trans people do you know?

[A guy in the Chesapeake 647]

23 minutes ago, sail611 said:

And that is factual how?  What is the scientific basis for that statement?  Are you an expert in brain formation with respect to gender identity?  Do you deny that the brain is what defines the self?

Your explanation is simple, and people like simple, but in being so simple, it  dismisses a serious aspect of being human, to the point of being dangerous if enough people accept that simplistic view of what it is to be a person.

Seriously, how many trans people do you know?

I actually know several - and every one of 'em (adults) is someone with whom professional interaction is difficult because other aspects of their behavior are distracting and require constant focus to avoid saying or doing anything that might have even the slightest potential to cause offense. 

I don't intend to dismiss an aspect of being human - but, some things simply are:  A kid born without legs isn't going to be able to compete on the cross country team.  Is it the fault of the athletic department that he can't?  Should they require the cross country team to compete in wheelchairs so that the kid born without legs doesn't feel like he's missing out on something?  Should we have to pass a law saying that you have to have legs to be on the cross country team because the parents of that kid sue to get their kid on the cross country team? That kid IS missing out - and nothing that anyone else does is going to change that.    

You're born how you're born - and if your brain can't process or accept that, than is it your brain or your plumbing that's the problem? 

[sail611 62]

I am sorry, but that is a false equivalence.  A child being born without legs is not the same as child being born without a penis, but with the brain of a man.  Or vice versa.  

I would suggest a 100 level philosophy course to engage in some discussion on the definition of self and what it is.  

I will also offer up those individuals that are born XXY wrt their 23rd chromosome set (usually a pair, but triplet in this case).  Generally they have female facial features, though may look a little more masculine than other females, have breasts, and sometimes are born with a penis.  Almost always their brains tell them they are female.  Yet by your logic, because they were born with a penis they are male?  

Also, why do you feel it so hard to interact with trans people?  Is it because YOU think they should be something other than they actually are?  Could it be that YOU (and not just you personally, but all the members of society who think as you do, that people are SUPPOSED to be something other than what they actually are) are the problem?  

I know several trans people and I have found the best way to treat them is to treat them how they want to be treated.  At first, it was a bit awkward for me, as I had to get over the social construct that the student I was talking to last year as a girl, is now a guy.  But that was MY hang up.  Once I got over that, it was no more difficult to call him Mr. Smith as it was Miss. Smith (name changed because the person is still a minor) and treat him just like I would any other male student.

 

And guy, I am not digging on you or taking shots at you here, but rather maybe foster some personal reflection on your part as to the basis of your belief system, and if possibly accepting other beliefs may make your life better or easier.  That's all.  

[sail611 62]

Or how about this.  Lets just ignore the labels.  Lesbian, Gay, Bi-Sexual, Transgender, Queer, Straight, White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, etc.....Guess what.  It doesn't matter.  Those are labels used to divide us.  We are ALL people.  Lets just treat everyone like people.  Lets start there.

[Sol Rosenberg 1,672]

http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2017/D05-30/C:16-3522:J:Williams:aut:T:fnOp:N:1971382:S:0

Quote

What the record demonstrates here is that the School District’s privacy argument is based upon sheer conjecture and abstraction. For nearly six months, Ash used the boys’ bath‐ room while at school and school‐sponsored events without incident or complaint from another student. In fact, it was only when a teacher witnessed Ash washing his hands in the restroom that his bathroom usage once more became an issue in the School District’s eyes. And while at oral argument, the School District asserted that it had received just one complaint from a parent, this is insufficient to support its position that its policy is required to protect the privacy rights of each and every student.

 

[Bent Sailor 683]

9 hours ago, Mickey Rat said:

Pot meet Kettle.

Weiner wasn't manager of Hillary's campaign. It's bad when even the attempts to shout "Democrats are worse!" end up proving Republicans are.  

[Mrleft8 711]

8 hours ago, sail611 said:

Or how about this.  Lets just ignore the labels.  Lesbian, Gay, Bi-Sexual, Transgender, Queer, Straight, White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, etc.....Guess what.  It doesn't matter.  Those are labels used to divide us.  We are ALL people.  Lets just treat everyone like people.  Lets start there.

I agree. And while we're at it let's just make all restrooms available to everyone, regardless of sex, color, or political persuasion.

 Good god....... Imagine the lines at the republican restroom if there were only 5 stalls, and the democrats had 3.....

[Gouvernail 112]

On 6/1/2017 at 11:51 AM, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I actually know several - and every one of 'em (adults) is someone with whom professional interaction is difficult because other aspects of their behavior are distracting and require constant focus to avoid saying or doing anything that might have even the slightest potential to cause offense. 

I don't intend to dismiss an aspect of being human - but, some things simply are:  A kid born without legs isn't going to be able to compete on the cross country team.  Is it the fault of the athletic department that he can't?  Should they require the cross country team to compete in wheelchairs so that the kid born without legs doesn't feel like he's missing out on something?  Should we have to pass a law saying that you have to have legs to be on the cross country team because the parents of that kid sue to get their kid on the cross country team? That kid IS missing out - and nothing that anyone else does is going to change that.    

You're born how you're born - and if your brain can't process or accept that, than is it your brain or your plumbing that's the problem? 

really?? However you are born is your lot in life??

that's a mighty broad and oppressive  brush. 

i prefer allowing poor folks to bust their way out.

If a man wants to make a girl of himself, who am I or the government to stand in his way?? 

 

[FillYourBoots 95]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5000666/Transgender-woman-guilty-sexually-assaulting-girl-10.html

 

[another 505 sailor 44]

9 hours ago, BigUnot said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5000666/Transgender-woman-guilty-sexually-assaulting-girl-10.html

 

Family friend abuses girl.

This is not a case of a transgender in a bathroom, waiting for a girl to come in to assault, which is what the scaremongers are saying will happen.

[Rockdog 14]

You mean they are saying heterosexual men will pose as women in order to gain trust?  

[another 505 sailor 44]

1 hour ago, Rockdog said:

You mean they are saying heterosexual men will pose as women in order to gain trust?  

Sexual predators.

[frenchie 184]

On 6/1/2017 at 12:51 PM, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I actually know several - and every one of 'em (adults) is someone with whom professional interaction is difficult because other aspects of their behavior are distracting and require constant focus to avoid saying or doing anything that might have even the slightest potential to cause offense. 

I don't intend to dismiss an aspect of being human - but, some things simply are:  A kid born without legs isn't going to be able to compete on the cross country team.  Is it the fault of the athletic department that he can't?  Should they require the cross country team to compete in wheelchairs so that the kid born without legs doesn't feel like he's missing out on something?  Should we have to pass a law saying that you have to have legs to be on the cross country team because the parents of that kid sue to get their kid on the cross country team? That kid IS missing out - and nothing that anyone else does is going to change that.    

You're born how you're born - and if your brain can't process or accept that, than is it your brain or your plumbing that's the problem? 

I was following the controversy over Playboy's first trans playmate, on twitter last night.  A lot of guys saying "that's not a woman, that's a dickless man with fake tits" and such... and other saying how Hefner must be spinning in his grave...  Playboy themselves dropped into the thread, to point out it wasn't the first time they'd had a transwoman in the magazine  -  that was Caroline "Tula" Cossey, in 1991. 

Anyways, long story short  -  I got to reading about Tula.  This passage in her wikipedia page might give you pause:

Cossey was born in Brooke, Norfolk. Through puberty, Cossey was distinctly feminine in appearance due to a variant of a condition known as XXXY syndrome, where, instead of having the XY male chromosome pattern, she possesses the genotype XXXY^[1][3] (people with Klinefelter's syndrome usually have XXY).

Physical / biological / genetic "sex" isn't nearly as strictly 'either/or' as we think.  Intersex individuals are about as common as red haired individuals.  But often there's no obvious genetic "defect"  -  and when there is, it's surgically "corrected" soon after birth.

 

It's not just people, either.  Critters, too.  I read a book, some years back  -  Evolution's Rainbow  -  that basically catalogued all the different surprising gender/sex configurations in the natural world.  Cod, for example, are all born female; when a male dies, the biggest most dominant female in the group turns into a male.  Clownfish are all born male, and when a female dies, one of the males turns into a female.  Female Hyenas have clits as big as the males' dicks.  Almost half of all male Marsh Harriers, have the plumage of females & don't breed. 

It was a bit boring, honestly  -  the writer's dedicated, but not that talented  -  but still worth reading.  Just the sheer accumulation of examples, after awhile, changes how you think about "biological sex". 

 

[SloopJonB 2,556]

All you have to do is meet one of them and you know what sex they are - pre-op, post-op, whatever - your true sex resides in your brain, not your crotch.

I've always felt sorry for them - life and sex is tough enough and complicated enough without any questions or uncertainty about ones personal fundamentals.

Or having to deal with mouth breathers like Rockdog or Big and their Neanderthal elk .

[Shootist Jeff 667]

4 hours ago, frenchie said:

A lot of guys saying "that's not a woman, that's a dickless man with fake tits" and such...

Wait... What??  I didn't know we were talking about @Mismoyled Jiblet..  

[LB 15 2,129]

13 hours ago, frenchie said:

I was following the controversy over Playboy's first trans playmate, on twitter last night.  A lot of guys saying "that's not a woman, that's a dickless man with fake tits" and such... and other saying how Hefner must be spinning in his grave...  Playboy themselves dropped into the thread, to point out it wasn't the first time they'd had a transwoman in the magazine  -  that was Caroline "Tula" Cossey, in 1991. 

Anyways, long story short  -  I got to reading about Tula.  This passage in her wikipedia page might give you pause:

Cossey was born in Brooke, Norfolk. Through puberty, Cossey was distinctly feminine in appearance due to a variant of a condition known as XXXY syndrome, where, instead of having the XY male chromosome pattern, she possesses the genotype XXXY^[1][3] (people with Klinefelter's syndrome usually have XXY).

Physical / biological / genetic "sex" isn't nearly as strictly 'either/or' as we think.  Intersex individuals are about as common as red haired individuals.  But often there's no obvious genetic "defect"  -  and when there is, it's surgically "corrected" soon after birth.

 

It's not just people, either.  Critters, too.  I read a book, some years back  -  Evolution's Rainbow  -  that basically catalogued all the different surprising gender/sex configurations in the natural world.  Cod, for example, are all born female; when a male dies, the biggest most dominant female in the group turns into a male.  Clownfish are all born male, and when a female dies, one of the males turns into a female.  Female Hyenas have clits as big as the males' dicks.  Almost half of all male Marsh Harriers, have the plumage of females & don't breed. 

It was a bit boring, honestly  -  the writer's dedicated, but not that talented  -  but still worth reading.  Just the sheer accumulation of examples, after awhile, changes how you think about "biological sex". 

 

Wait! There are as many intersex individuals as people with red hair?  So what are the chances that batshit crazy redhead you are hitting on in a bar has an Adam's apple?  A Batshit crazy redhead might be all great fun until the dicks start coming out and someone loses an eye. 

[Shortforbob 573]

14 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

All you have to do is meet one of them and you know what sex they are - pre-op, post-op, whatever - your true sex resides in your brain, not your crotch.

I've always felt sorry for them - life and sex is tough enough and complicated enough without any questions or uncertainty about ones personal fundamentals.

Or having to deal with mouth breathers like Rockdog or Big and their Neanderthal elk .

There's something wrong with this statement but I cant quite rest my tits on it.

 

[frenchie 184]

42 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

There's something wrong with this statement but I cant quite rest my tits on it.

 

No seeing what's wrong with it...?  He's saying Caroline Cossey was a woman even before she got her boy-bits turned inside-out.

 

2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Wait! There are as many intersex individuals as people with red hair?  So what are the chances that batshit crazy redhead you are hitting on in a bar has an Adam's apple?  A Batshit crazy redhead might be all great fun until the dicks start coming out and someone loses an eye. 

 

Pretty small  -  1.7% of 1.7%.  

We think red hair's a lot more common than it is; and we think interesex is much less common than it is. 

[FillYourBoots 95]

15 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

All you have to do is meet one of them and you know what sex they are - pre-op, post-op, whatever - your true sex resides in your brain, not your crotch.

I've always felt sorry for them - life and sex is tough enough and complicated enough without any questions or uncertainty about ones personal fundamentals.

Or having to deal with mouth breathers like Rockdog or Big and their Neanderthal elk .

Wait. We're in a thread titled the serious transgender bathroom issue and I give you a link to a child rape in a bathroom by a tranny.

You feel sorry for them and I'm the mouth breathing neanderthal?? You side with the child rapist!

[SloopJonB 2,556]

36 minutes ago, BigUnot said:

Wait. We're in a thread titled the serious transgender bathroom issue and I give you a link to a child rape in a bathroom by a tranny.

You feel sorry for them and I'm the mouth breathing neanderthal?? You side with the child rapist!

We all know you're a moran - you don't have to confirm it with every post.

[Bent Sailor 683]

29 minutes ago, BigUnot said:

Wait. We're in a thread titled the serious transgender bathroom issue and I give you a link to a child rape in a bathroom by a tranny.

You feel sorry for them and I'm the mouth breathing neanderthal?? You side with the child rapist!

Yes, because clearly each and every response in this thread must be about your post, and there are no other transexual individuals other than the one rapist you're fixating on. I'll be damned if you aren't the stupidest, most self absorbed waste of skin this forum has seen since Happy Jack ran away.

 

 

[Rockdog 14]

6 hours ago, BigUnot said:

Wait. We're in a thread titled the serious transgender bathroom issue and I give you a link to a child rape in a bathroom by a tranny.

You feel sorry for them and I'm the mouth breathing neanderthal?? You side with the child rapist!

What did you honestly expect?

[Bent Sailor 683]

5 minutes ago, Rockdog said:

What did you honestly expect?

For morons like you to buy into BigUnot's bullshit. You didn't disappoint.

[Rockdog 14]

6 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

For morons like you to buy into BigUnot's bullshit. You didn't disappoint.

You are saying that incident didn’t happen?

[SloopJonB 2,556]

7 hours ago, BigUnot said:

 I'm the mouth breathing neanderthal

 

[Bent Sailor 683]

Just now, Rockdog said:

You are saying that incident didn’t happen?

No. I am saying that someone who expresses support for the issues you face as a straight white man is not "siding with child rapists" just because there are (more) examples of straight white men who rape children. BigUnot cannot discern the difference between supporting a demographic and siding with a single person in that demographic. Let's see if you're smarter than that idiot...

[Raz'r 972]

14 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

No. I am saying that someone who expresses support for the issues you face as a straight white man is not "siding with child rapists" just because there are (more) examples of straight white men who rape children. BigUnot cannot discern the difference between supporting a demographic and siding with a single person in that demographic. Let's see if you're smarter than that idiot...

Rockdog won’t get it...

[Bent Sailor 683]

Just now, Raz'r said:

Rockdog won’t get it...

See, I think he already does. He's like the other Dog - they think themselves clever by asking questions that miss the point. 

[3to1 223]

7 hours ago, BigUnot said:

Wait. We're in a thread titled the serious transgender bathroom issue and I give you a link to a child rape in a bathroom by a tranny.

You feel sorry for them and I'm the mouth breathing neanderthal?? You side with the child rapist!

yup, you're an irrational bullshitter and a transparent 'alarmist'. homogenized righty fear mongering, it's what you non-stop clowns do.

[B.J. Porter 795]

50 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

No. I am saying that someone who expresses support for the issues you face as a straight white man is not "siding with child rapists" just because there are (more) examples of straight white men who rape children. BigUnot cannot discern the difference between supporting a demographic and siding with a single person in that demographic. Let's see if you're smarter than that idiot...

 

[FillYourBoots 95]

9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

We all know you're a moran - you don't have to confirm it with every post.

Refute my statement. Go ahead.

You know your constant name calling negates any value in your posts.

You are living proof in support of Muzafer Sherif's theories.

[Shootist Jeff 667]

21 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

A lot of guys saying "that's not a woman, that's a dickless man with fake tits" and such...

Wait.... what????  I didn't know we were talking about @LB 15 here.  

[FillYourBoots 95]

2 hours ago, 3to1 said:

yup, you're an irrational bullshitter and a transparent 'alarmist'. homogenized righty fear mongering, it's what you non-stop clowns do.

Please support your comments with proof. Did the tranny "ex" male not rape a child in the bathroom

If you can't support your name calling then you're being totally irrational.

[FillYourBoots 95]

3 hours ago, Rockdog said:

What did you honestly expect?

Calm, reasoned, rational responses?

[Shootist Jeff 667]

1 minute ago, BigUnot said:

3 hours ago, Rockdog said:

What did you honestly expect?

Calm, reasoned, rational responses?

  What, are you NEW here???

[FillYourBoots 95]

No mate, I'm not. I was being sarcastic. 

 

[frenchie 184]

Way to miss the point... 

 

You found an example of a transwoman child molester.  Congrats! 

Now:

- How common is it for transwomen to be child molesters?

- How common is it, compared to non-trans  -  "normal", aka "cis-gendered"  -  straight men, being child molesters?

[FillYourBoots 95]

13 minutes ago, frenchie said:

Way to miss the point... 

 

You found an example of a transwoman child molester.  Congrats! 

Now:

- How common is it for transwomen to be child molesters?

- How common is it, compared to non-trans  -  "normal", aka "cis-gendered"  -  straight men, being child molesters?

Can I assume you're addressing me?

I didn't "find" anything, it's in most news sites and current. No need for congrats, there's many others here that post "reports" far quicker than me.

If I could be bothered with the gotcha questions I'd say if we can save just one child but I can't be bothered so I won't. 

[frenchie 184]

It would really strengthen your case if you could find at least one, preferably a few, more examples.

We would save a whole bunch more children, if we just outlawed any straight man ever being alone with any child.

 

[FillYourBoots 95]

11 minutes ago, frenchie said:

It would really strengthen your case if you could find at least one, preferably a few, more examples.

We would save a whole bunch more children, if we just outlawed any straight man ever being alone with any child.

 

Your gig brudda. I don't have a "case" to strengthen. 

[Bent Sailor 683]

22 minutes ago, BigUnot said:

Your gig brudda. I don't have a "case" to strengthen. 

Only that one where you accuse others of supporting child rapists. Other than that, no case to support.

[SloopJonB 2,556]

9 hours ago, BigUnot said:

Refute my statement. Go ahead.

You know your constant name calling negates any value in your posts.

You are living proof in support of Muzafer Sherif's theories.

I have zero interest in engaging you and your goofy, ignorant views.

I'm just here for the ridicule.

[3to1 223]

10 hours ago, BigUnot said:

Please support your comments with proof. Did the tranny "ex" male not rape a child in the bathroom

If you can't support your name calling then you're being totally irrational.

irrational my ass, look in the mirror you willful clown.

if you weren't feigning stupidity and playing your absurd fk whit righty card you'd acknowledge the assualt was an isolated one and wouldn't have used it in the context you did. when you say something foolish, own it and don't expect others to explain themselves when they call you on it.

btw, the anti-sense circle jerk you're looking for is at breitbart.

[Rockdog 14]

17 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

No. I am saying that someone who expresses support for the issues you face as a straight white man is not "siding with child rapists" just because there are (more) examples of straight white men who rape children. BigUnot cannot discern the difference between supporting a demographic and siding with a single person in that demographic. Let's see if you're smarter than that idiot...

So you admit men will act as women and sexually assault girls?

[Raz'r 972]

Just now, Rockdog said:

So you admit men will act as women and sexually assault girls?

what you and your elk continually find impossible to comprehend - is the reality of threats.

First off, the reality of stranger molestation is pretty rare on the whole.

2nd, if you look at stranger molestation - and no, I'm not going to cite - you'll find it's men most often

3rd, if you look at stranger molestation - the number of Tranny men? hell - it's news when there's 1. Ever.

Righties can't understand statistics.

[Bent Sailor 683]

1 hour ago, Rockdog said:

So you admit men will act as women and sexually assault girls?

I admit men will do a great many things and sexually assault girls. Some of them drink beer and sexually assault girls. Others drive trucks and sexually assault girls. Some will even go to lead a church in song, pray for the well being of the ill & misfortunate, and run a soup kitchen... and sexually assault girls. I am not going to single out any of those behaviours as causal or even indicative of a person sexually assaulting girls nor would I consider support for beer drinkers, truck drivers, and the religious to be supporting child rapists.

Would you like to try that again or have you realised how moronic you look?

[SloopJonB 2,556]

1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

what you and your elk continually find impossible to comprehend - is the reality of threats.

First off, the reality of stranger molestation is pretty rare on the whole.

2nd, if you look at stranger molestation - and no, I'm not going to cite - you'll find it's men most often

3rd, if you look at stranger molestation - the number of Tranny men? hell - it's news when there's 1. Ever.

Righties can't understand statistics.

Righties can't understand a lot of things - maybe most things.

[Rockdog 14]

51 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

what you and your elk continually find impossible to comprehend - is the reality of threats.

First off, the reality of stranger molestation is pretty rare on the whole.

2nd, if you look at stranger molestation - and no, I'm not going to cite - you'll find it's men most often

3rd, if you look at stranger molestation - the number of Tranny men? hell - it's news when there's 1. Ever.

Righties can't understand statistics.

So you 

 

51 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

I admit men will do a great many things and sexually assault girls. Some of them drink beer and sexually assault girls. Others drive trucks and sexually assault girls. Some will even go to lead a church in song, pray for the well being of the ill & misfortunate, and run a soup kitchen... and sexually assault girls. I am not going to single out any of those behaviours as causal or even indicative of a person sexually assaulting girls nor would I consider support for beer drinkers, truck drivers, and the religious to be supporting child rapists.

Would you like to try that again or have you realised how moronic you look?

I take that as a ‘No, men will not dress up like women in order to gain trust and abuse women’.   

[Bent Sailor 683]

1 hour ago, Rockdog said:

I take that as a ‘No, men will not dress up like women in order to gain trust and abuse women’.   

You didn't ask a question where that was a valid answer. You asked "So you admit men will act as women and sexually assault girls?"; to which I answered that men will do a great many things and sexually assault girls. I even gave examples. I'm not surprised you'd ignore what you were told and imagine an answer to a question you didn't ask.

[LB 15 2,129]

1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Wait.... what????  I didn't know we were talking about @LB 15 here.  

Good one Mr President. A real thigh slapper, sir.

[SloopJonB 2,556]

Something no one seems to have considered is that if there were no trans people the Kinks would never have done "Lola".

[FillYourBoots 95]

On 10/23/2017 at 9:31 PM, Bent Sailor said:

Only that one where you accuse others of supporting child rapists. Other than that, no case to support.

You're a fucking idiot. If I said "I like pancakes" you'd be "You said you hate waffles"

[Shortforbob 573]

7 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Something no one seems to have considered is that if there were no trans people the Kinks would never have done "Lola".

One of the greatest songs ever written..nearly 50 years ago..

 

[random 467]

Americans are so fucking precious about toilets FFS.  What is it about someone taking a piss or a dump they are hung-up about?

A couple of times and concerts the gender lines get blurred at toilets.  Usually the women start using the cubicles in the men's when their que gets too long.  No problems are encountered.

Oh don't tell me they are scared that the trans-gender person will ask them for a head--job!  NTTAWWT.

[frenchie 184]

4 hours ago, random said:

Americans are so fucking precious about toilets FFS.  What is it about someone taking a piss or a dump they are hung-up about?

A couple of times and concerts the gender lines get blurred at toilets.  Usually the women start using the cubicles in the men's when their que gets too long.  No problems are encountered.

Oh don't tell me they are scared that the trans-gender person will ask them for a head--job!  NTTAWWT.

Well, you know... Republicans... bathrooms...

https://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/ssi/craig_police_report_082807.pdf

[SloopJonB 2,556]

It's all tied into the streak of Puritanism that runs so strongly through American society - like never showing a dick in a movie but pussy is O/K. Carlin's 7 words are part of it too.

I'm old enough to remember when married couples on TV and in movies always had twin beds. Lucy rocked and shocked the society by talking about and being pregnant on TV.

It's fading away but Christ is it glacial. Look at Pence and his never being alone with a woman. How fucked up is that?

[A guy in the Chesapeake 647]

18 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

It's all tied into the streak of Puritanism that runs so strongly through American society - like never showing a dick in a movie but pussy is O/K. Carlin's 7 words are part of it too.

I'm old enough to remember when married couples on TV and in movies always had twin beds. Lucy rocked and shocked the society by talking about and being pregnant on TV.

It's fading away but Christ is it glacial. Look at Pence and his never being alone with a woman. How fucked up is that?

If that's fucked up - it's because of the propensity to treat anything that might, intentionally or otherwise, cause offense to a female member of our species as a sexual assault.  IMHO - it's like teachers never letting themselves be alone w/a single kid - it's CYA good sense. 

[Raz'r 972]

8 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

If that's fucked up - it's because of the propensity to treat anything that might, intentionally or otherwise, cause offense to a female member of our species as a sexual assault.  IMHO - it's like teachers never letting themselves be alone w/a single kid - it's CYA good sense. 

I wouldn't have put you in the "i'm a persecuted old white guy" crowd - but looks like you're fully in.

 

Hint - theres a difference between a Weinstein business meeting,  dropping his bathrobe and raping a woman, and being in an actual business meeting.  Maybe you don't see the difference, but I find it quite clear.  I don't have any concerns meeting 1:1 with members of the better sex.

[Gouvernail 112]

You guys are soo afraid you might be turned on by a person only to find out the person has a penis.

that scares the shit out of you

you are sooooo frightened!!

admit it!!

you are all closet queers!!

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake 647]

53 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I wouldn't have put you in the "i'm a persecuted old white guy" crowd - but looks like you're fully in.

 

Hint - theres a difference between a Weinstein business meeting,  dropping his bathrobe and raping a woman, and being in an actual business meeting.  Maybe you don't see the difference, but I find it quite clear.  I don't have any concerns meeting 1:1 with members of the better sex.

Persecuted old white guy?  Hardly - it's a pragmatic reflection of how many interpret today's social norms. 

I do indeed understand the difference, and I do understand that if a he said/she said situation comes up, that the "she said" will always win, and that someone who wants to be vindictive will usually have no compunction about employing whatever they feel that they can to achieve that vindication.

As it pertains to teachers/students?  It's not a gender thing but if the "student said" - that accusation, baseless or not is ruinous to a career.  It's simple to avoid - by making sure that there's always someone else there. 

[Raz'r 972]

13 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Persecuted old white guy?  Hardly - it's a pragmatic reflection of how many interpret today's social norms. 

I do indeed understand the difference, and I do understand that if a he said/she said situation comes up, that the "she said" will always win, and that someone who wants to be vindictive will usually have no compunction about employing whatever they feel that they can to achieve that vindication.

As it pertains to teachers/students?  It's not a gender thing but if the "student said" - that accusation, baseless or not is ruinous to a career.  It's simple to avoid - by making sure that there's always someone else there. 

No, you are showing severe persecution syndrome. Just the statement that "she said" always wins is SO FUCKING FAR from reality, that it makes me question your sanity.

[A guy in the Chesapeake 647]

5 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

No, you are showing severe persecution syndrome. Just the statement that "she said" always wins is SO FUCKING FAR from reality, that it makes me question your sanity.

OK - keep telling yourself that.....  I'll continue to reside in reality, with the understanding of how such accusations regularly play out, and the damage done even when such accusations are found later to have been baseless.   

[Raz'r 972]

5 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

OK - keep telling yourself that.....  I'll continue to reside in reality, with the understanding of how such accusations regularly play out, and the damage done even when such accusations are found later to have been baseless.   

you should try to get out of the world of the anecdote sometime. The real world is much more complex, and must less dangerous than you think it is.

 

In the real world, 1 of 4 women in the workforce experience some level of sexual harassment.  very few report it. Why?

75% of those who report something experience retaliation.

 

this basic narrative holds true in study after study after study.  yet you think white males are persecuted. YCMTSU

 

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/10/15/16438750/weinstein-sexual-harassment-facts

[A guy in the Chesapeake 647]

1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

you should try to get out of the world of the anecdote sometime. The real world is much more complex, and must less dangerous than you think it is.

In the real world, 1 of 4 women in the workforce experience some level of sexual harassment.  very few report it. Why?

75% of those who report something experience retaliation.

this basic narrative holds true in study after study after study.  yet you think white males are persecuted. YCMTSU

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/10/15/16438750/weinstein-sexual-harassment-facts

No - YOU said white males are persecuted - *I* said that in my experience, any time an allegation is leveled, damage is done whether the allegation is proven true or not. If the decision to take an allegation seriously comes down to "he said/she said"?  The perspective of the aggrieved has to be considered valid, and that not permitting a situation to occur where the veracity of such an allegation can be judged by he said/she said is prudent.   

Much different than you assert, but, hey - what does reality mean when you feel like slagging someone on the right side of things?   

[Raz'r 972]

1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

No - YOU said white males are persecuted - *I* said that in my experience, any time an allegation is leveled, damage is done whether the allegation is proven true or not. If the decision to take an allegation seriously comes down to "he said/she said"?  The perspective of the aggrieved has to be considered valid, and that not permitting a situation to occur where the veracity of such an allegation can be judged by he said/she said is prudent.   

Much different than you assert, but, hey - what does reality mean when you feel like slagging someone on the right side of things?   

just pointing out that the little bubble of fear you live in, is not reality. Reality is, it's damn good to be a white male.

 

Maybe you could show some data that says X% of men falsely accused of sexual harassment?  You know, use real data?

[LB 15 2,129]

2 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

You guys are soo afraid you might be turned on by a person only to find out the person has a penis.

that scares the shit out of you

you are sooooo frightened!!

admit it!!

you are all closet queers!!

 

Something you want to share Gouv?

[Raz'r 972]

21 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Something you want to share Gouv?

Can't say anything about Gouv, but looks like A-Guy has a lot of friends in the White Snowflake camp:

 

A majority of white Americans believe discrimination exists against them in the United States, according to a poll released Tuesday.

The poll, conducted by NPR, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, found that 55% of whites surveyedbelieve that "discrimination against white people exists in the U.S. today.” 

Of those white Americans surveyed, only a small percentage say they've experienced discrimination firsthand. 

Among whites, 19% sid they've "been personally discriminated against" because of their race when applying for jobs, while 11% said it occurred when applying to or while at college. Thirteen percent of whites said they experienced discrimination when being considered for equal pay or promotion at work.

According to NPR, income seemed to "affect individual responses to the question of discrimination," with those making less money "more likely to say that whites are discriminated against."  

The survey's findings come as President Trump has faced wide criticism over his administration's policies towards minority groups and his response to the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va.

Part of the "Discrimination in America" series, the report also surveyed African Americans, Latinos, Native Americans, Asian Americans and LGBTQ adults. They were asked about their "own personal experiences with discrimination," with 92% of African Americans surveyed saying that they believe "that discrimination against black African Americans exists in America today."

The comprehensive report also suggests:

• When asked if discrimination against their own group exists, 78% of Latinos say that discrimination against Latinos exists today.
• Approximately 75% of Native Americans, 61% of Asian Americans and 90% of people who identify as LGBTQ said that discrimination existed against their own groups exists in America.

The poll, which sampled 3,453 adults, 902 of whom were white, was conducted Jan. 26-April 9, 2017.

[A guy in the Chesapeake 647]

I think that discrimination against any group has nothing at all to do with the existence of discrimination against any other group.   

You seem to think that conservative white males are immune from discrimination.  It's there, but, it's different - very few reasonable people would suggest that white males are handicapped by virtue of being a white male when it comes to employment considerations, for example.  When  you hear about a case of racial/sexual/gender discrimination, I'd bet you a dollar to a donut that *your* first thought is that the offender is a white guy.  That's discriminatory, Flash, and plays out in the way you think about and deal with anyone whom you suspect you can pigeonhole into a perspective different than your own.  

Please - continue citing stats instead of providing your own thoughts on a topic, it's gotta be easier than thinking, and besides, if you look a little, I'm certain that you can find a statistic or quote that will support whatever point you want to make much more succinctly than your own thoughts could express. 

[Shortforbob 573]

3 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

You guys are soo afraid you might be turned on by a person only to find out the person has a penis.

that scares the shit out of you

you are sooooo frightened!!

admit it!!

you are all closet queers!!

 

To be honest, don't all of us feel a little conscious around transgenders? Not  fearful, or hateful..just curious? Until one gets to know them and their presence becomes accepted and normalised. (I'm talking about close contact here, like in the worlplace or social circles.

I knew a couple of lovely trandgender women..one S..used to be a funeral director..had the change 30 years ago..owned a newsagengy with her straight partner..My daughter (aged 4) walked in to the shop with me and cried in those peircing little voices "Mummmm thats a man!!

S just laughed and said "Cant fool the little ones)

The other was a client and a showgirl..she was a little odd..but very nice and kind and matter of fact about her differences..I cried when she died of a brain tumour.

The Bathroom issue is a red herring or a red flag, waved to turn that curiosity into something else.. 

[LB 15 2,129]

What about 'conservative white males' who suck dick? Do they get a say? 

Careful it's a trap...

[Bent Sailor 683]

4 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Persecuted old white guy?  Hardly - it's a pragmatic reflection of how many interpret today's social norms.

It is your belief that it's a "pragmatic reflection" rather than "imagined victimhood" that makes you the persecuted white guy in all this. And for the record, I didn't take you as one of those either until your remarks here.

 

4 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I do indeed understand the difference, and I do understand that if a he said/she said situation comes up, that the "she said" will always win, and that someone who wants to be vindictive will usually have no compunction about employing whatever they feel that they can to achieve that vindication.

Wrong. "She said" does not always win. Watched it unfold with a close friend of mine. They took his side (he was the boss), the police (correctly) stated that he said/she said is not enough to get a conviction, it destroyed her and (due to the trauma) her marriage. This is the first time you've gone so far as to warrant this, but if you are going to seriously argue "she said" will always win - go fuck yourself, Chesapeake. You're wrong. Abominably so.

 

4 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

As it pertains to teachers/students?  It's not a gender thing but if the "student said" - that accusation, baseless or not is ruinous to a career.  It's simple to avoid - by making sure that there's always someone else there. 

As it pertains to teachers/students (or more accurately - children and adults in a position of trust) - you are correct. The accusation can be ruinous to a career, even when absolved. Doesn't always happen, my father was accused and the investigation cleared him, but it happens often enough that CYA policies around children is worth it. Pence is not in that situation. This is a red herring.

[Raz'r 972]

1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I think that discrimination against any group has nothing at all to do with the existence of discrimination against any other group.   

You seem to think that conservative white males are immune from discrimination.  It's there, but, it's different - very few reasonable people would suggest that white males are handicapped by virtue of being a white male when it comes to employment considerations, for example.  When  you hear about a case of racial/sexual/gender discrimination, I'd bet you a dollar to a donut that *your* first thought is that the offender is a white guy.  That's discriminatory, Flash, and plays out in the way you think about and deal with anyone whom you suspect you can pigeonhole into a perspective different than your own.  

Please - continue citing stats instead of providing your own thoughts on a topic, it's gotta be easier than thinking, and besides, if you look a little, I'm certain that you can find a statistic or quote that will support whatever point you want to make much more succinctly than your own thoughts could express. 

I discriminate all the time. 
When I was dating, I was partial to petite brunettes. Both of my wives were/are petite red/brunettes. only ever dated 1 blonde. 

Discrimination against blondes, transgender, old, young?  Yep, I'm guilty.

 

As to who commits sexual harassment - well, if the shoe fits.

[FillYourBoots 95]

5 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

You guys are soo afraid you might be turned on by a person only to find out the person has a penis.

that scares the shit out of you

you are sooooo frightened!!

admit it!!

you are all closet queers!!

 

Yeah right. Imagine being a teenager today and dating. Small talk is "Do you have a penis?'

[Raz'r 972]

3 minutes ago, BigUnot said:

Yeah right. Imagine being a teenager today and dating. Small talk is "Do you have a penis?'

How’s is that different than 25 years ago? I met a “gal” at a bar. At least she told me she was a pre-op TV before it went all Crying Game.  Hell, there was a movie about it!

[FillYourBoots 95]

2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

How’s is that different than 25 years ago? I met a “gal” at a bar. At least she told me she was a pre-op TV before it went all Crying Game.  Hell, there was a movie about it!

We've all read your stories of conquest here Mitch. You reckon you're quite the stud hey.

[Raz'r 972]

41 minutes ago, BigUnot said:

We've all read your stories of conquest here Mitch. You reckon you're quite the stud hey.

nope, well below average

[SloopJonB 2,556]

2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

What about 'conservative white males' who suck dick? Do they get a say? 

Careful it's a trap...

What? you mean something other than "MFFFFLLRRP"?

[3to1 223]

17 hours ago, random said:

Americans are so fucking precious about toilets FFS.  What is it about someone taking a piss or a dump they are hung-up about?

A couple of times and concerts the gender lines get blurred at toilets.  Usually the women start using the cubicles in the men's when their que gets too long.  No problems are encountered.

Oh don't tell me they are scared that the trans-gender person will ask them for a head--job!  NTTAWWT.

a greasy turd isn't god-like.

[SloopJonB 2,556]

Speak for yourself - I've had some that were quasi-religious experiences.

[Shootist Jeff 667]

On 10/26/2017 at 8:56 PM, SloopJonB said:

It's all tied into the streak of Puritanism that runs so strongly through American society - like never showing a dick in a movie but pussy is O/K. Carlin's 7 words are part of it too.

I'm old enough to remember when married couples on TV and in movies always had twin beds. Lucy rocked and shocked the society by talking about and being pregnant on TV.

It's fading away but Christ is it glacial. Look at Pence and his never being alone with a woman. How fucked up is that?

I actually quite agree with the puritanism streak as an issue.  I think so many of our society's issues that are different than say Europe is that we are so fucking puritanical about sex and drinking and such.  I'm of the mind that as soon as you tell people they aren't allowed to do something, the first thing they want to do is what they're not allowed to.  In many countries in Europe, its no big deal for a kid to be able to have a glass of wine with dinner along with the "Rents".  By the time they grow up, the thought of binge drinking in HS and college is not even an issue.  Same with sex.... topless beaches in France and Italy.  Kids see neked wimmins at an early age and its no big deal by the time they grow up.  As soon as you make something forbidden and mysterious - they want it even more.  

[Sol Rosenberg 1,672]