PinkSpinnaker

Finn sailing

Recommended Posts

I have promised myself that my next boat will be an RS 700, but the Finn is a temptress. Those are Euro prices, but it might give you an idea (converting to USD) of what to expect for a use Finn in very good shape. Good luck in your quest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to get into a Finn. how much would it cost for a good one, And what would I need to look for?

7-12K. Mast that fits your size and matches the sails that come with it

 

Start by contacting people in your local fleet and taking a loaner got a spin. They'll point you in the right direction

 

Where are you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depending on our budget. 5k for a low end to 25k for a brand new boat. Would help to know location, height and weight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Start doing your crunches NOW! Then you can enjoy a beautiful dinghy with less pain. Happy Sailing!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good like Olympic calibre fitted out boat matched to you? See the price for a new boat above.

 

Or something that is modern and has the little go-fast bits mostly there? See the 7k-12k mentioned above, this will depend on the manufacturer, rig, location, etc.

 

The nice bit about finns is that the hulls seem to last for a very long time, so you can pick up a well looked after boat from almost 20 years back and it'll still be solid (maybe not as quick or competitive as the newest ones, but it'll get you around a course with the fleet). Then you can take the money you saved on the hull and put it towards a rig and sail that are matched to your size...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depending on our budget. 5k for a low end to 25k for a brand new boat. Would help to know location, height and weight.

I am in Florida, 6 foot 1, 260 lbs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm jumping into this Finn fun fest.

 

I want to try a Finn (any vintage). I'm in Indiana. Maybe someone in Chicago? I'll be up that way next weekend.

 

I'm 6'5" 245 lbs.

 

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good like Olympic calibre fitted out boat matched to you? See the price for a new boat above.

 

Or something that is modern and has the little go-fast bits mostly there? See the 7k-12k mentioned above, this will depend on the manufacturer, rig, location, etc.

 

The nice bit about finns is that the hulls seem to last for a very long time, so you can pick up a well looked after boat from almost 20 years back and it'll still be solid (maybe not as quick or competitive as the newest ones, but it'll get you around a course with the fleet). Then you can take the money you saved on the hull and put it towards a rig and sail that are matched to your size...

This. Budget 7-9K for a 10-15 year old Devoti and while you rack up time in the boat save up for a rig and sail that fit you. The hull should be fine for a good while. When shopping make sure it cones with the mast and sails-it's common for sellers to keep a mast that's a good fit for them when they upgrade hulls

 

Paging Surf Nazi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rig is the priority, not the hull. You can take a guess at the numbers by looking at your size and by figuring in how much you like hiking. If you don't enjoy it very much you find a bendy mast. If you are more physical you can try stiffer numbers.

 

When we first built our fleet I had an old Vanguard. I bought a stiff carbon rig and a couple of good sails and I went about as fast as I am able, being a pathetically bad single-handed sailor. After awhile I decided I would give it up, and I sold out. Later on I decided I missed it too much and went and found an old Teal hull and sailed a few regattas in it. Eventually my knees gave completely out and I bailed one last time, but let me tell you, it is a great class of people and a great boat. They are very welcoming and helpful, and will go out of their way to get you into a boat, assuming it's what you really want.

 

I envy you. In another life I could have spent my entire sailing career in a Finn. It is a wonderful boat.

 

RD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm. Check out the Finn Facebook pages. John Dane had a superb boat for sale for a good deal. If you want to come to California for some regattas, there are charter boats- look at Facebook "California Finn Association". If you know somebody in Europe that wants to send it all to you, there are great deals on barely used boats through Devoti. You can get a new Finn from Andy Pimental at Jibe Tech- it's a Lemieux hull- very stable downwind. There's usually boats for sale in San Diego too. (Mike Dorgan will know- he's on Google as he's a broker and a sailor. ) There 's always a bunch of too expensive boats, but there's some good deals too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm. Check out the Finn Facebook pages. John Dane had a superb boat for sale for a good deal. If you want to come to California for some regattas, there are charter boats- look at Facebook "California Finn Association". If you know somebody in Europe that wants to send it all to you, there are great deals on barely used boats through Devoti. You can get a new Finn from Andy Pimental at Jibe Tech- it's a Lemieux hull- very stable downwind. There's usually boats for sale in San Diego too. (Mike Dorgan will know- he's on Google as he's a broker and a sailor. ) There 's always a bunch of too expensive boats, but there's some good deals too.

 

 

 

+10000000000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also check out finnusa.org there be classifieds there. for instance- a barely used 2006 devoti with wilke carbon mast, plenty of sails, covers, dolly, trailer, faired, spare carbon rudder and tiller, 10,500 OBO. and no, it's not mine nor a friends.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Depending on our budget. 5k for a low end to 25k for a brand new boat. Would help to know location, height and weight.

I am in Florida, 6 foot 1, 260 lbs.

 

Where in florida ? If close to lauderdale/ miami, there are some great guys who can help you. If you're closer to north florida, come over to Mobile and we'll hook you up. we have an active group that sails almost every week . the other info on budget given above is on point. that Dane boat is the deal of the century if still available. check north american finn class on fb and message Darrell Peck, he knows everything about every finn in north america.

 

feel free to pm me if you're serious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also check out finnusa.org there be classifieds there. for instance- a barely used 2006 devoti with wilke carbon mast, plenty of sails, covers, dolly, trailer, faired, spare carbon rudder and tiller, 10,500 OBO. and no, it's not mine nor a friends.

that's a great deal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Red Dragon and Couchsurfer +1. Finn are the max. Never liked sailing it on quiet days...but we age and end up dreaming, while we swill and cruise...

 

Wood Brit boat noted above in the Craiglist thread, but rig match counts big. Shades of Paul E.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andy (Pimental) at Jibetech will build a new Lemieux hull for you, fitted out, for 11k, or a Vanguard hull for 8k. No rig, obviously, but the Lemeiux is supposed to be competitive with the modern Devotis. A bit flatter aft than the Vanguard so it'll plane sooner down wind. I'm sailing an old Vanguard with a modern rig and it's plenty fast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just get one and go sailing. 2017 US Nationals at Encinal YC in SF Bay area

I am with you. Watching the Olympics and recaps of Finn races of this annd older stuff- I am ready to sell the 4ktsb for some fun, friendships in a nice fleet and excitement in serious competition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am just too old to Finn...back from the day when pumping disqualified, so I also cruise in a sort of 4KSB,,,I just constructed.

 

You buy a Finn yet?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Just get one and go sailing. 2017 US Nationals at Encinal YC in SF Bay area

I am with you. Watching the Olympics and recaps of Finn races of this annd older stuff- I am ready to sell the 4ktsb for some fun, friendships in a nice fleet and excitement in serious competition.

 

That's the right idea !! Interesting day in Rio yesterday, the cats were supposed to sail on the outside course but it was deemd too rough for them so they put the finns out there and the fleet reveled in it. What other olympic classes call unsailable conditions, finn fleet calls fun .

 

It's just rediculous that almost every quad they want to change the classes and talk about eliminating the finn when the finn is the only sailboat that can realistically be sailed in all conditions and sailed by true olympic athletes. If you lined up all the sailors in the olympics and asked an innocent bystander which ones are olympic athletes, the finn guys would all be chosen.

 

One of the classic US finn regattas is going on this weekend in caznovia ,NY, the toilet bowl regatta. Shows what a fun group the finn guys are. there will be sailors from teens to 80 yr olds out there. you're never too young or too old to sail a finn. It is a lifestyle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Henry Sprague III..... ~70 y.o.

 

 

Wish I had seen Finns outside in Rio. Major boat, major sailors and class history second to none....not that anyone asked. :rolleyes:

 

Learned to sail on the Charles River in the '70's @ CBC in a couple of old Finns (wooden sticks). Loved it. Hooked me on sailing for life. They dumped them in favor of Lasers and I made the transition too. Realized I made a mistake but the number of Laser regattas vs, Finn was substantial and the expense of a quality Finn was well beyond my means at that time.

 

Still have images of Elvstrom in my head when I think of fine boats and full-on sailing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was fortunate enough to be Henry's little gremmie sidekick at the Long Beach Naval Sailing Facility my first year of High School. 1969. What a time it was and Henry had just one the Finn World Cup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys raced in Alamitos Bay then? Not sure where LB Naval sailing facility is.

 

The class newsletter used to crack me up - NSFW to say the least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NSF was on the Navy base way out on what they called the 'Mole' and we were constrained to sail in the enclosed basin where all the Navy vessels were docked. A big frontier was when you got qualified to leave the confines of the Navy base and sail out into the surrounding waters. They had a really good program in which you were challenged and tested to move up to the bigger boats and widened sailing grounds. I finally qualified to take the clubs Coronado 25's all the way out to Catalina which was like the end of the world to a 16 year old kid. One of my fondest memories is signing up for a C-25 for a long holiday weekend with the old Navy Chief who ran the whole program and paid my $5 per day fee and he asked who would be accompaning me of the trip. I told him that my Dad would be my 'guest' for the weekend and he signed off on the venture. Come thursday when my Dad and I walked up to the window and the old Chief saluted my Dad who was a Commander at the time and my. Th Dad returned the courtesy salute and said that he had a boat reserved for the weekend. The Chief looked in the log and said that he saw no such reservation under that name but he did see one in my name. My Dad was somewhat taken aback and said that he would be taking one of the club boats to Catalina that weekend but the Chief said that he was not qualified for privilege but was welcome to do so on the vessel that was reserved under my name. My Dad stammered a bit and then looked at me and asked 'Permission to come aboard Skipper!'

 

That was one of the best times my Dad and I ever had and the whole NSF program was the best introduction to sailing that there ever was. Henry Sprague being TAD (Temporary Additional Duty) to the NSF was a huge bonus and I was so fortunate to be there at that time and place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NSF was on the Navy base way out on what they called the 'Mole' and we were constrained to sail in the enclosed basin where all the Navy vessels were docked. A big frontier was when you got qualified to leave the confines of the Navy base and sail out into the surrounding waters. They had a really good program in which you were challenged and tested to move up to the bigger boats and widened sailing grounds. I finally qualified to take the clubs Coronado 25's all the way out to Catalina which was like the end of the world to a 16 year old kid. One of my fondest memories is signing up for a C-25 for a long holiday weekend with the old Navy Chief who ran the whole program and paid my $5 per day fee and he asked who would be accompaning me of the trip. I told him that my Dad would be my 'guest' for the weekend and he signed off on the venture. Come thursday when my Dad and I walked up to the window and the old Chief saluted my Dad who was a Commander at the time and my. Th Dad returned the courtesy salute and said that he had a boat reserved for the weekend. The Chief looked in the log and said that he saw no such reservation under that name but he did see one in my name. My Dad was somewhat taken aback and said that he would be taking one of the club boats to Catalina that weekend but the Chief said that he was not qualified for privilege but was welcome to do so on the vessel that was reserved under my name. My Dad stammered a bit and then looked at me and asked 'Permission to come aboard Skipper!'

 

That was one of the best times my Dad and I ever had and the whole NSF program was the best introduction to sailing that there ever was. Henry Sprague being TAD (Temporary Additional Duty) to the NSF was a huge bonus and I was so fortunate to be there at that time and place.

Good stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a magic time. Henry had enlisted in the Navy much to the dismay of his father who was an Admiral in the Navy. His Dad wanted him to go into OCS (Officer Candidate School) at the very least. An appointment to the Naval Academy would have taken no more that the pen stroke to sign off by his Dad but he wanted to do it on his own merit. Henry opted to go to the SEALS and when he had passed the grueling testing there he signed up for the Rescue Swimmer program for the Apollo space capsule recovery program which was the elite of the elite. He was assigned to the Prime Recovery Vessel as a Rescue Swimmer which would involve jumping out of the helicopters when the Apollo capsules splashed down and get the floatation collar on the capsule and the astronauts into the harnesses to get lifted into the helos. The USS Hornet was the recovery ship at the time and was in Long Beach for some reason and Henry got his orders to report to the Hornet. He walked up the gangplank and handed his orders to the OOD (Officer of the Deck) who recognized the name and told him to report immediately to the Captains quarters. When he met the Captain he got a very warm welcome from the commanding officer who told him that he was a good friend of his Dads and then handed over TAD papers (Temporary Additional Duty) that told him that he was to report to the Naval Sailing Facility at Long Beach (all of 200 yards away). That was the last time that Henry had to even report to the Hornet and he spent his Navy career teaching sailing to little snot nosed grems like myself and going all over the globe winning national and world championships in as many classes that the NSF could line up donor boats for. The Naval Academy would send one of their donated boats down to places like Capetown with a coach and a crew of midshipmen and then Henry would fly in and skipper it to a win in the Capetown to Rio race. He was the original Sailing Rockstar!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, let's say I love to Finn, but just not near enough Finners or water, so I swill-sail...cruise and flop. I dig! Harry does or did have vested interest...and lottsa respect from me...I have him by a few.

 

BTW, appreciate the pics...very nice and spendy Finn under his kyster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RKock,

 

Henry had just won the Congressional Cup when I met him in Long Beach in 1969. I don't think he had even graduated college at that point. The first one was in 1965 and Gerry Driscoll won.

 

Henry talking about Finns and the old guys.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rasputin...very good. Never met him, but I know of him...appreciated, even if it makes me morose about time and what it does to us strategically...I do admit to swill-sailing, but I do it on a 18 foot x 10 foot outrigger with 190 square feet of sail...but would love to be back string-pulling and leaning out of a Finn...

 

And yeah, we old fucks have fun...lottsa fun, cuz we "know."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

This 'old guy' in a Finn could probably still kick your ass! Any guesses as to who and how old?

 

Henry-Sprague.jpg

 

Alt_finnNA2014d202H.jpg

 

 

 

p1010916henry_sprague.jpg

Super Henry

74

 

Henry is an incredible sailor and an incredible athlete particularly given his age. That dude works out hard daily with a trainer, eats right, stretches, etc. He is so fast in the finn it's unbelievable. A true classic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear a story that Elvestrom had built a wooden hiking rack that duplicated the Finn and put it in his shower stall. He would take long showers in the coldest water coming straight out of the pipes while he soaked and scrubbed up and brushed his teeth in the full droop hiking position.

 

I admired him most for sailing to 4th in the Tornado cat in LA in 84 with Trine, his daughter.

 

2f8a0ed4-9bb0-4baa-b035-3ff903d7b930_200 I wouldn't mind doing some practice trapezing with her in the shower...

 

https://video-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t42.1790-2/13007611_221583191543704_486596590_n.mp4?efg=eyJ2ZW5jb2RlX3RhZyI6InN2ZV9zZCJ9&oh=618d5793b08a2ba8d5376a648f6c4ec6&oe=57BB7A21

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Bill, she would be like robbing the cradle for me these days! Not really but I could pass for her Dad in that photo.

 

Have a look at the pdf of how the family business was created. I never made the connection with Sobstad Sails. Cute photo of Trine kissing her Dad when she was just a wee tot after one of his early Olympic Golds.

 

How tough is this guy?

 

Paul_Elvstr%C3%B8m_1960b.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ben Ainslie leaves PE and all others for dead in the finns.

 

PE had a huge hiking advantage when his opposition did not hike. Ainslies advantage was his skill, tactics and boatmanship, in bigger and more even fleets.

 

The boats today are a lot more even than in PE's day. Thats why they brought in the lamboly test!!!!!

 

I would rate quite a few modern finn sailors ahead of PE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ben Ainslie leaves PE and all others for dead in the finns.

PE had a huge hiking advantage when his opposition did not hike. Ainslies advantage was his skill, tactics and boatmanship, in bigger and more even fleets.

The boats today are a lot more even than in PE's day. Thats why they brought in the lamboly test!!!!!

I would rate quite a few modern finn sailors ahead of PE.

How do the modern Finn sailors rate The big Lee bow ski?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rush, while you may be correct, all is relative and such speculation usually leads to pee-contest talk.

 

PE, given the times, transported to today, with all the go-fasts (term from back then) and changed tactics and handling, might just have been up to the task.

 

Thing is, PE did maximize the Finn with what he had available, no less than BA has done more recently, you get my drift.

 

The Finn Class is as timeless as sailing itself.

 

Both add HS, sailing peers, IMHO!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ben Ainslie leaves PE and all others for dead in the finns.

 

PE had a huge hiking advantage when his opposition did not hike. Ainslies advantage was his skill, tactics and boatmanship, in bigger and more even fleets.

 

The boats today are a lot more even than in PE's day. Thats why they brought in the lamboly test!!!!!

 

I would rate quite a few modern finn sailors ahead of PE.

that's just crazy talk. the finns in the olympics used to be supplied by the organizer. other sailors back in day used to hike too. no question that modern finn fleet is more fit but that doesn't make them better then Mssr Elvstrom. Remember he won a star worlds and a few other world championships in classes that he didn't regularly compete in. Has anyone else won multiple finn gold cups, olympic gold medals and a star worlds. I don't think so.

 

And PE was respected by his competitors, Sir Ben maybe not as much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of all the above, Columbus would not go to Mars (though he might eat a mars).

You just had some crazy luck and was actually completely lost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ben lost the respect of his peers?

I think not.

 

(who sails finns anyway?)

 

Now with (former) idea there are no dumb questions...I stand before you corrected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ask Sir Ben how he would like to be hiking on that nice square gunn'l that Elvstrom is bending his legs around. The finn is a much more ergonomic boat now than it was for Paul. Among other sailing accomplishments He sailed a 505 worlds (another class where he was world champ) helming from the wire while Trine crewed with hiking straps. There are great sailors, and GREAT sailors. Don't get them mixed up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anybody Sailing Finn in the Santa Barbara area? I'm moving from Colorado to Santa Barbara and I want to know if there is a fleet of Finn's in this area. I know there is a fleet in San Diego.

 

p.s. If you need any parts for your Finn or you are looking for a Finn. Sent me a text or look at Dinghy Racing USA on FB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anybody Sailing Finn in the Santa Barbara area? I'm moving from Colorado to Santa Barbara and I want to know if there is a fleet of Finn's in this area. I know there is a fleet in San Diego.

 

p.s. If you need any parts for your Finn or you are looking for a Finn. Sent me a text or look at Dinghy Racing USA on FB

There are two people that sail Finns in Ventura, an ex US Sailing Team member and campaigner lives in Santa Barbara, and there's also a fleet in Long Beach. Its not just about San Diego.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Finn has, when set up correctly, the sweetest helm, one that whispers about better sailing in your pain ravaged ears, much as a Bosendorfer, Bechstein, or Amati whispers into your subconscious about music, even as you've practiced continually for 10 hours. And that makes you a better musician, a better sailor. This keeps your head out of the boat, or instrument, and into a larger reality.

 

Poetry aside, in the US, Henry kicked our butts. Elvstrom inspired our hearts. Would Sir Ben exist without either? Maybe it will take the patina of years to understand him fully. Maybe for him to understand himself? And there are so many others.

 

If you can still physically sail a Finn, do it.

 

-Newport #36. Bruder mast. North sail. Sweet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amati +1.

 

A Finn, any Finn, is a devilish contraption.

 

A sailors sailboat, even the old ones I sailed were outstanding. Difficult to explain, especially to young or those who have not sailed one.

 

A centerboard version of Flying Fifteen? If that makes sense. which I never noticed, but I was not in front of the fleet either...and really never wanted to be there either.

 

I will say this, I am over 70 and can still sail a Finn; however, the problem for me is getting back in after a dump. Well, that, and no room for swill box, so had to build alternative. You get older, you want something to ease the pain...

 

I believe "Smart Like Tractor" here sailed on out of Oceanside/Fallbrook but he might have traveled to Oz. He had a couple of Kites also.

 

Nothing quite like a Finn, seriously.

 

Love me back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've wondered for years if the class might consider small hiking wings (~ Swedish canoes) for the over 60 crowd. My knees are shot for hiking.

 

As far as getting back on board after a capsize, I think Keith Callaghan (the Hadron designer) is showing a way forward on that. Don't know if that would contravene Finn rules.

 

http://hadrondinghy.com/about/

 

On the other, could just get a Hadron...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amati +1.

 

A Finn, any Finn, is a devilish contraption.

 

A sailors sailboat, even the old ones I sailed were outstanding. Difficult to explain, especially to young or those who have not sailed one.

 

A centerboard version of Flying Fifteen? If that makes sense. which I never noticed, but I was not in front of the fleet either...and really never wanted to be there either.

 

I will say this, I am over 70 and can still sail a Finn; however, the problem for me is getting back in after a dump. Well, that, and no room for swill box, so had to build alternative. You get older, you want something to ease the pain...

 

I believe "Smart Like Tractor" here sailed on out of Oceanside/Fallbrook but he might have traveled to Oz. He had a couple of Kites also.

 

Nothing quite like a Finn, seriously.

 

Love me back.

 

BB there's a sweet feel in both the FF and Finn that's hard to explain - smooth and sophisticated. I own & sail both - can't seem to part with either!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couta, I think you can sail a Finn as long as you can, as long as you do no mind slowing up a hair...too there is the need for carrying crew and painkillers...if you can keep sailing a Finn somehow...do it...I wish I had...seriously. There was wood Finn for sale (classic Fairey Marine) I had dreams over and all I could do to not drive out and buy it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

https://issuu.com/finn-class/docs/finnfare-november-2016 Free pumping theory page 22 (sponsored article)

 

https://www.facebook.com/WBSails/videos/10154667700446358/ and now in moving pictures...
Formula Windsurfing will now be an integral part of training for serious Finn Sailing?

 

Accelerating attached flow across una rigged boats sailing downwind isn't exactly new, but it's Finn legal. I'm wondering if the big fast motion is the only way to do this- you can also do this by sliding the rig slowly & smoothly from side to side, alternating the leech and luff as leading edges, but it takes a delicate touch that is more (what?) Div II than Formula windsurfing. You can feel it.

 

Maybe it's a cultural thing? Kind of like the difference between 'touch' and 'brute strength' swimmers? But I've always been more of a John Christianson (Christiansen?) fan- I don't know if anyone remembers his experiment with the smaller sail in big winds- he was a smaller guy- but it was surprisingly good upwind. Not so much downwind. There was some talk of reefing systems, but I can't remember if it was deemed illegal or impractical. Never went anywhere, as far as I know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couta, I think you can sail a Finn as long as you can, as long as you do no mind slowing up a hair...too there is the need for carrying crew and painkillers...if you can keep sailing a Finn somehow...do it...I wish I had...seriously. There was wood Finn for sale (classic Fairey Marine) I had dreams over and all I could do to not drive out and buy it...

 

Did a 6 race Finn regatta with a fleet of 22 over the weekend - wind ~16kts but big left over seas.....feel like I've been in the back of a cement mixer with a dozen bowling balls.....but couldn't wipe the smile off my face. Not only a hot fleet, but a great bunch of blokes that just love to share their knowledge and passion for the class.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've wondered for years if the class might consider small hiking wings (~ Swedish canoes) for the over 60 crowd. My knees are shot for hiking.

 

As far as getting back on board after a capsize, I think Keith Callaghan (the Hadron designer) is showing a way forward on that. Don't know if that would contravene Finn rules.

 

 

 

Hiking wings are definitely out but a lot of guys have a rope tied around the centerboard trunk with a loop tied in it so when that line is overboard it's just about the right spot to get your foot in and climb back aboard. Works very well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I've wondered for years if the class might consider small hiking wings (~ Swedish canoes) for the over 60 crowd. My knees are shot for hiking.

 

As far as getting back on board after a capsize, I think Keith Callaghan (the Hadron designer) is showing a way forward on that. Don't know if that would contravene Finn rules.

 

 

Hiking wings are definitely out but a lot of guys have a rope tied around the centerboard trunk with a loop tied in it so when that line is overboard it's just about the right spot to get your foot in and climb back aboard. Works very well.

This. Thin spectra stuffed under the pussy pad with a little loop sticking out for you to reach in and grab to deploy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I've wondered for years if the class might consider small hiking wings (~ Swedish canoes) for the over 60 crowd. My knees are shot for hiking.

 

As far as getting back on board after a capsize, I think Keith Callaghan (the Hadron designer) is showing a way forward on that. Don't know if that would contravene Finn rules.

 

 

 

Hiking wings are definitely out but a lot of guys have a rope tied around the centerboard trunk with a loop tied in it so when that line is overboard it's just about the right spot to get your foot in and climb back aboard. Works very well.

 

The insides of Finns have changed quite bit over the years, I assume because of the freedom of design the de Lamboley pendulum test provides. How much can floatation be moved around inside the hull to lower the height out of the water of the hull (and centerboard plate) when a Finn is on her side, the height of the gunwales above the water when initially righted, and water in the hull sloshing from side to side, which is very destabilizing, during self rescue? (This is why I mentioned the Hadron, as Kieth has addressed these dynamic problems with floatation location and bailers in the Hadron, which would might be possible with the Finn.) With a different internal floatation design, it might be possible for a sailor to almost float back into a stable upright hull, and then quickly clear the water inside with forward motion of the boat, using transom flaps and bailers, with stability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The loop does wonders. Very good!...with c/b trunk....without trunk and only dagger board, need sturdy anchor point is all...and then only if hull does not rotate with weight or one is very swift in re boarding...

 

Finns are best without wings...IMHO...maybe use sheet leverage to move from hike? What I used to do...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The insides of Finns have changed quite bit over the years, I assume because of the freedom of design the de Lamboley pendulum test provides. How much can floatation be moved around inside the hull to lower the height out of the water of the hull (and centerboard plate) when a Finn is on her side, the height of the gunwales above the water when initially righted, and water in the hull sloshing from side to side, which is very destabilizing, during self rescue? (This is why I mentioned the Hadron, as Kieth has addressed these dynamic problems with floatation location and bailers in the Hadron, which would might be possible with the Finn.) With a different internal floatation design, it might be possible for a sailor to almost float back into a stable upright hull, and then quickly clear the water inside with forward motion of the boat, using transom flaps and bailers, with stability.

 

 

 

The design of the Finn is pretty nailed down, you're not going to modify it like you're suggesting. If you want awesome tactical one design racing, sail a Finn, if you want a boat that's easy, try something else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

mward, I think you are being rough on Amati, there is no suggestion of watering down the Finn's basic characteristics, just making it a bit easier (and safer) to live with. I had two oldies and they were a pain to right and bail out. I mostly sailed alone on tidal waters and eventually went back to the Laser just because it could be rescued more reliably. Yes I'm a wimp.

 

The Finn Class rules 2015 do say that the cockpit should be similar in general arrangment to the plans but there is room for improvement. Just because all the boats look similar now does not mean the class has to be a one design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Dart. I went from the Finn to a Laser for the same reasons, although It felt like a toy. Here are the rules- I think they are current.

 

http://www.classefinn.it/vecchiosito/finn/FinnClassRules2011.pdf

 

As far as I can see you can move floatation around quite a bit since side tanks are optional, bags are allowed, and the floorboard rules don't seem to nix a lot of floatation under the foredeck. Sealed double floors are optional, shape of side decks is pretty open. So on her side, floatation could be arrayed to allow the stern to float a bit low, and be down low enough, relative to the front of the boat to allow easier reboarding from the stern when flooded. I can't remember if there are restrictions on the number of bailers, my Newport had 4, which bailed pretty quickly, but the Newport was designed around integral side tanks, which floated pretty high on her side. My wooden Bruder mast helped with speed of inversion, but didn't prevent it. With my Needlespar aluminum, zip! Hated that thing.

 

The only problem with Callaghan's Hadron floatation system for the Finn, as far as I read the rules, is that a raised spine down the middle, to keep water from sloshing from side to side in the cockpit is not allowed, although I couldn't find a limitation on how high the cockpit floor can be, whether it can be crowned a bit, the central cockpit decking could raise a bit relative to the side decking within the plank dimensions which might help a bit for water moving from side to side. The Centerboard trunk is pretty long anyway, so it might not be a big deal. The cockpit has to be pretty flat dance floor for rolling under the boom. Although with bailers, sailing barefoot could get bloody. My floorboards were wood, so they would float, but under them there was no floatation, just the hull.

 

I think I've seen Finns with transom flaps?

 

Any way, with a sealed mast, and the hull floating hallway out of the water on her side, it would be a lot easier to self right, and if the stern floated low when flooded, it would be easier to get back in. Maybe juggling the volume of a double floor in back might result in some sort of balance when the boat is on her side vs upright?

 

Have to look after what station the floor is required. Hard to figure how much area from the back of the centerboard to the bow could have more floatation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is an image of a Swedish sailing canoepost-906-0-04091000-1480617810.jpg The wings are waaay too big, but it shows the idea clearly. Not like an IC though ;)

 

Heres another, the wings are smaller, and are, I think, closer to moving the cg of the skipper out to where hiking might take it.post-906-0-66883700-1480617505.jpg

 

If hiking straps were somehow outlawed for this kind of set up, and leverage were constrained to the same as you'd get from normal hiking, it might not be a huge advantage. Some folks would cheat, no doubt. But for daysailing, and friendly racing?

 

Not enough pain involved? :wub:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Dart. I went from the Finn to a Laser for the same reasons, although It felt like a toy. Here are the rules- I think they are current.

 

http://www.classefinn.it/vecchiosito/finn/FinnClassRules2011.pdf

 

As far as I can see you can move floatation around quite a bit since side tanks are optional, bags are allowed, and the floorboard rules don't seem to nix a lot of floatation under the foredeck. Sealed double floors are optional, shape of side decks is pretty open. So on her side, floatation could be arrayed to allow the stern to float a bit low, and be down low enough, relative to the front of the boat to allow easier reboarding from the stern when flooded. I can't remember if there are restrictions on the number of bailers, my Newport had 4, which bailed pretty quickly, but the Newport was designed around integral side tanks, which floated pretty high on her side. My wooden Bruder mast helped with speed of inversion, but didn't prevent it. With my Needlespar aluminum, zip! Hated that thing.

 

The only problem with Callaghan's Hadron floatation system for the Finn, as far as I read the rules, is that a raised spine down the middle, to keep water from sloshing from side to side in the cockpit is not allowed, although I couldn't find a limitation on how high the cockpit floor can be, whether it can be crowned a bit, the central cockpit decking could raise a bit relative to the side decking within the plank dimensions which might help a bit for water moving from side to side. The Centerboard trunk is pretty long anyway, so it might not be a big deal. The cockpit has to be pretty flat dance floor for rolling under the boom. Although with bailers, sailing barefoot could get bloody. My floorboards were wood, so they would float, but under them there was no floatation, just the hull.

 

I think I've seen Finns with transom flaps?

 

Any way, with a sealed mast, and the hull floating hallway out of the water on her side, it would be a lot easier to self right, and if the stern floated low when flooded, it would be easier to get back in. Maybe juggling the volume of a double floor in back might result in some sort of balance when the boat is on her side vs upright?

 

Have to look after what station the floor is required. Hard to figure how much area from the back of the centerboard to the bow could have more floatation.

 

 

....iirc,,the floor height is,was measured in relation to gunnel height behind the traveler, so both these measurements are kept pretty tight,,, I doubt that's changed much since the 80's.

 

I'll bet there's still allowance for 2x 6'' flaps or tubes out the stern.

 

A boat can have either sealed or open tanks around the cockpit,,, though it's certainly an airflow advantage to have them all closed.

 

I doubt there's been a restriction added on # of bailers allowed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep tubes on a few boats...I have nightmares of someone going from Finn to Laser...way back there may have been resriction on floor bailers...like Elvstrom's but likely wiped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.

 

....I used to be pretty concerned about aero-fairing way back in the 80's,,,,

........ever since I dropped a sandwich baggie and watched it orbit around the cockpit! :huh:

 

 

I had the max size stern tubes, had light flaps, but usually open,, I also added fabric between the fwd coaming and the traveler,, and in the stern corner.

 

 

 

.....the lunch baggies would blow right through after that :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Page 21, section 4.1 talks about deck or enclosed tanks, which would seem to open the door a bit to the stern being a bit lower, hull flooded with a double self draining floor.

 

The baggies didn't circle? I like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems Finn I sailed had closed tanks or sides...but not sure. Back in day of wood spars, so maybe too far back...

 

Only PIA things: no room for beer and climbing aboard, after a dump seemed to be tricky as hull spun around...now is really tough...for me! Gotta be fast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could sail a decent Kite, you can find one. Finn, is head and shoulders up...kinda like being really on your own...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites