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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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PBO

SuperFoiler Grand Prix

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https://www.facebook.com/SuperFoiler/

 

"Welcome to the home of the SuperFoiler Grand Prix. After more than 18 months of work we are now airborne and have locked away the design of the SuperFoiler with Morrelli & Melvin. Featuring unprecedented aerodynamic & hydrodynamic efficiency along with a maximum possible power to weight, the SuperFoiler will be the focus of a fully televised circuit of racing commencing in 2017. Keep up to date here over the coming months. ‪#‎superfoiler‬"

 

Boom! the Macartney family are back in business! This should be quite a spectacle to watch live or on TV. Bring it!!

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video of it sailing (all of a few seconds of it) has been posted on their fb page.

 

Fast and scary are appropriate ways of describing it. Don't know if they're implementing the 'seatbelt' system which Pete Melvin talked about at TFW in Newport last year. So we'll see about the dangerous part.

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I really hope Bill MaCartney can get traction on this.

He did an awesome job on the Grand Prix aydeens, without much help or support from the Yachting establishment.

In fact he copped flack from ALL of the 'establishment' and he still made it work!

I'm glad I'm too old to be shanghai'd into one of these beasts.

But not too old to really looking forward to seeing crews wrestle these rocketships around a course.

Good luck Bill

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why isn't this shit over in the multihull forum ??   same old juvenile puerile shit.   Fly, go fast, crash,  all in a straight line.....put wheels on it and put it in the  sail drag race  forum for children.

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3 minutes ago, Rejected said:

why isn't this shit over in the multihull forum ??   same old juvenile puerile shit.   Fly, go fast, crash,  all in a straight line.....put wheels on it and put it in the  sail drag race  forum for children.

Loud noise...pointless and unpopular until they can figure out how to make loud noises.

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14 minutes ago, Rejected said:

why isn't this shit over in the multihull forum ??   same old juvenile puerile shit.   Fly, go fast, crash,  all in a straight line.....put wheels on it and put it in the  sail drag race  forum for children.

Fuckwit. 

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On 4/3/2017 at 5:58 PM, cosmicsedso said:

I really hope Bill MaCartney can get traction on this.

He did an awesome job on the Grand Prix aydeens, without much help or support from the Yachting establishment.

In fact he copped flack from ALL of the 'establishment' and he still made it work!

I'm glad I'm too old to be shanghai'd into one of these beasts.

But not too old to really looking forward to seeing crews wrestle these rocketships around a course.

Good luck Bill

Sadly the assumption that the Grand Prix aydeens circuit was a success is a wrong one.  It lasted a couple of years at most, got a little traction then died.   To be fair I don't know the whole story, but if it was a huge success it would still be going...

The superfoiler is a very cool boat, I've seen it up close and personal on and off the water, but with no kites (visual, colour, movements, risk, tangles etc.), high boatspeeds limiting close quarters action (owing to the risk to life and limb) foiling dynamics dictating bounding from layline to layline the chance of the racing being a consumer spectacle and this concept getting mass market traction (as opposed to anyone reading this forum) is pretty low IMHO.  Sailing just isn't a mass media spectator sport.  Sad but true.

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23 hours ago, Rejected said:

why isn't this shit over in the multihull forum ??   same old juvenile puerile shit.   Fly, go fast, crash,  all in a straight line.....put wheels on it and put it in the  sail drag race  forum for children.

Mars Rover? You are out there.

Nothing wrong with going fast and they are in the process of learning the boat.
OR
spend tons of cash to go slow.

They did say it was designed and built for a professional circuit.

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Are they planning to race in Sydney Harbour? The safety issues in racing something that fast in close proximity to a lot of boats and ferries are not trivial. Having been up close to foiling Flying Phantoms on the water and having had to deal with the aftermath of an F-18-Laser collision recently, these things would concern me.

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On 24/11/2017 at 10:36 AM, DickDastardly said:

Sadly the assumption that the Grand Prix aydeens circuit was a success is a wrong one.  It lasted a couple of years at most, got a little traction then died.   To be fair I don't know the whole story, but if it was a huge success it would still be

The superfoiler is a very cool boat, I've seen it up close and personal on and off the water, but with no kites (visual, colour, movements, risk, tangles etc.), high boatspeeds limiting close quarters action (owing to the risk to life and limb) foiling dynamics dictating bounding from layline to layline the chance of the racing being a consumer spectacle and this concept getting mass market traction (as opposed to anyone reading this forum) is pretty low IMHO.  Sailing just isn't a mass media spectator sport.  Sad but true.

To be fair, I don't know you, but I do know that you are pig ignorant regarding 'GP sailing'.

Success can be defined in many ways but having sailing as the entertainment in breaks in the Test cricket was probably the 2nd best sailing media success in AUS, ever!

The reason GPS didn't last forever was, IIRC, that Bill got sick of the constant attack he was under from the sailing 'elite'.

Additionally I can't see talent like Ashby & Co signing up for a boring experience.

Tall poppy is what's springing to my mind.

 

 

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On 24/11/2017 at 12:18 PM, Foiling Optimist said:

Are they planning to race in Sydney Harbour? The safety issues in racing something that fast in close proximity to a lot of boats and ferries are not trivial. Having been up close to foiling Flying Phantoms on the water and having had to deal with the aftermath of an F-18-Laser collision recently, these things would concern me.

Like this?

 

 

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On 25/11/2017 at 4:47 PM, cosmicsedso said:

To be fair, I don't know you, but I do know that you are pig ignorant regarding 'GP sailing'.

Success can be defined in many ways but having sailing as the entertainment in breaks in the Test cricket was probably the 2nd best sailing media success in AUS, ever!

The reason GPS didn't last forever was, IIRC, that Bill got sick of the constant attack he was under from the sailing 'elite'.

Additionally I can't see talent like Ashby & Co signing up for a boring experience.

Tall poppy is what's springing to my mind.

 

 

I'd be very happy if Superfoiler succeded, and not just because it's paying rent at my club.   I just don't think there's a sustainable value propostion there.  Is GP sailing still shown in the Cricket breaks?  At the end of the day it's public acceptance of the concept that matters, not the sailing elite.  

I don't recall any sailling elite sniping at the GP18 circuit, though the 18 footer elite may have been a bit equivocal.

And you're conflating a boring experience for the audience with a boring experience for the sailors.  Sailors automatically assume what is exciting to do is equally exciting to watch.  And to an audience of sailors that may well be right, but that's not the audience that matters sadly.  Ashby & Co can sign up to anything thy want, why wouldn;t they sign up to saling something at the cutting edge regardless?  But are they major public drawcards outside the sailing fraternity?

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On 11/25/2017 at 4:47 PM, cosmicsedso said:

To be fair, I don't know you, but I do know that you are pig ignorant regarding 'GP sailing'.

Success can be defined in many ways but having sailing as the entertainment in breaks in the Test cricket was probably the 2nd best sailing media success in AUS, ever!

The reason GPS didn't last forever was, IIRC, that Bill got sick of the constant attack he was under from the sailing 'elite'.

Additionally I can't see talent like Ashby & Co signing up for a boring experience.

Tall poppy is what's springing to my mind.

 

 

You seem to have the scoop so I'll ask.... what is meant by success...? We all agree it was a success for getting sailing in the main stream but I think Dick is more referring to  commercial success and if so I'd believe he is right, it wasn't....

Of course for me it was a must watch and I think even now that they stream the 18's live they should mic up the crews as they did...

I hope the superfoiler works for them

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On 04/12/2017 at 12:53 AM, Jim Caldwell said:

For a program that starts in March, how many are signed up and have boats?

Six teams and it starts in Feburary apparently.

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Super Foiler:

 

 

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Super Foiler:

 

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On 1/12/2018 at 9:46 AM, Phil S said:

"It's an incredibly hard boat to sail," said Robertson. "We only had about 16 knots (of wind) when we tried to turn downwind and it accelerated. We couldn't keep up with the boat. It was not pleasant. a lot of broken bodies. Not nice!"

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I bumped into a moderately successful AC skipper the other day, his thoughts were that the foils were too optimised for high speed making it a bitch to sail. But sounds like no new foils planned until after first race series. 

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http://www.news.com.au/sport/more-sports/the-superfoiler-gp-is-almost-ready-to-set-sail/news-story/64f23d6725bc66dabbe862a053cd59a8

The SuperFoiler GP is almost ready to set sail

THE SuperFoiler GP is about to hit Australia and if you have no idea what that is, maybe it’s time you found out.

Olivia Price first (and only) female.

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On 1/15/2018 at 7:59 AM, Rawhide said:

I bumped into a moderately successful AC skipper the other day, his thoughts were that the foils were too optimised for high speed making it a bitch to sail. But sounds like no new foils planned until after first race series. 

He'd know...

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“moderately successful AC skipper” - is that on his CV?

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Any more news?

Nothing on their FB since 20 Jan and they are supposed to race on 2 Feb.

Heard of four teams on a variety of mediums - Pavement, Dark Horse, Euroflex, Kleenmaid, What about the other two? Nothing on their website listing boats/crews.

Very strange, or have I missed something?

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SuperFoiler‏ @SuperFoiler  1h1 hour ago

Dropping our lineup for #SuperFoilerADL ahead of Day 1 of Racing.

How to catch the action here - https://www.superfoiler.com/news/live-free-and-social-superfoiler-accessible-to-the-world/ …

Screen Shot 2018-02-02 at 12.57.39 AM.png

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So the mythical front page is a complete load of shit!

Rather than hype up an event which is futuristic (and therefore interesting) you mugs chose to start the article with the phrase "After a couple of aborted events...". Care to detail them? Complete BULLSHIT!

The opportunity to help create some interest in another aspect of our sport was completely wasted. For (my) Example "After an ambitious building program which many said wouldn't happen, ALL six boats hit the water in Adelaide today for the first round of the sensational Superfoilers Grand Prix...."

We often chat ad nauseum about the problems, challenges and 'opportunities lost' in our favourite sport. Well guys, this is a perfect example of the stupidity and childishness that is the major reason our sport is fucked. Too bloody jealous that someone else might have a shinier toy.

Completely disgusted.

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The livestream wasn't supposed to start until about now 11.45 Est. And from the glimpses so far they are foiling

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1 minute ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

5 boats. Tech2 ate shit in yesterday's race. 

Did not Tech 2 also hit the water yesterday?  FFS!

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What a stupid course for foiling boats... these really struggle in this medium air to get going downwind. Amazed they are sailing a straight W/L course.

18 Footers are arguably heaps more interesting to watch.

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Will always love the 18's.  But these look heaps of fun and they're just starting to learn how to manage them.  

Coverage is pretty good for a new venue.  Like the commentary.  

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2 minutes ago, Tropical Madness said:

What a stupid course for foiling boats... these really struggle in this medium air to get going downwind. Amazed they are sailing a straight W/L course.

18 Footers are arguably heaps more interesting to watch.

just had a quick look and came to the same conclusion

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Just now, southerncross said:

Will always love the 18's

lunch time in the cricket :)

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1 minute ago, Mid said:

lunch time in the cricket :)

Some good rugby coming up as well.  Six nations.

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On par with Volvo in port coverage (is that saying much?).  Seamless LIVE cuts from aerial to on board to on watercoverage.  Intelligent, insightful commentary.  

Steep learning curve.  Should get better with time.

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Interesting how long it's taking to get it up after turning turtle. 18skiffs are much more entertaining thus far. Only three boats qualify as finished. 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Ok, they are going on a bit about how fast and how difficult they are to sail.

Crappy design. Too tweaky.  

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I think their insistence on calling the boats “machines” is a bit odd. At one stage the commentator said “some people have been calling these machines, not boats”.  I have only heard people involved in the event call them that.

It was good entertainment for a Sat afternoon though, hopefully the field will equalize a bit.

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2 hours ago, JayBee said:

I think their insistence on calling the boats “machines” is a bit odd. At one stage the commentator said “some people have been calling these machines, not boats”.  I have only heard people involved in the event call them that.

It was good entertainment for a Sat afternoon though, hopefully the field will equalize a bit.

That’s just a couple of people trying too hard trying to elevate this boat and event beyond the trash heap into which they will be tossed eventually. 

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Well!  That was different.

The boats/craft/machines look really difficult to sail well. The dream team were definitely way ahead of the others which probably equates to the combined skill and experience of the crew. They were a pleasure to watch but at times they could look a bit ordinary as well.

I have no doubt that an organisation which can launch 6 radically new boats, organise teams and get an event happening in such a ridiculously short time frame, will sort out the minor niggles as the event unfolds.

The venue left a bit to be desired and I thought the racetrack was too long, but given stronger winds (hopefully today Sunday) maybe that will be less of an issue.

James and Tessa did a great job of commenting but who was the dude who seemed to be the #1? He was hopeless, whiny and absolutely lacking any understanding of what was really going on. Maybe he was there to interpret for the masses but I found him to be really annoying.

In regards to venues I can't wait to see how they handle the Gold Coast Broadwater. That WILL be interesting.

Roll on Day 3!

 

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can help wondering what it would be like with them just reaching and bearing away to a gybe at each end of the course. the tacking and gybing on that course was just random

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I was there yesterday on the water and here's a bit of on the water info.

People I know who were there Friday night -

Said Tech2 caught the finish line buoy mooring line with their rudder - which is what flipped them and ripped the back of the boat off on Friday night in the first race.

You can see the video on the sf news section of their webpage

The boats heading back to Nowra to be repaired as they couldn't fix it in the on-site repair tent.

Saturday

All boats seemed to be having problems moving their foils up and down and ID Intranet had a lot of problems with the port foil,  Euro raced with both foils down most of the day - was that the plan?

When Euro was back on land the boat was 3 metres up in the air so they could deploy the foils and they were working on the foils going up and down - so maybe they had similar issues.

Euro were the the best crew, had it very together but as noted above - they were not slick everytime.

The lack of close racing didn't make it very exciting, we had a couple of crosses occur and ID intranet had to duck, but that was about it.

It was fun to be there, interesting to see the technology in action, but as for exciting racing, I'm not convinced it will bring the masses or make good TV coverage.

I'm not going out there on Sunday to watch more. 

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1 hour ago, Ocean View said:

I was there yesterday on the water and here's a bit of on the water info.

People I know who were there Friday night -

Said Tech2 caught the finish line buoy mooring line with their rudder - which is what flipped them and ripped the back of the boat off on Friday night in the first race.

You can see the video on the sf news section of their webpage

The boats heading back to Nowra to be repaired as they couldn't fix it in the on-site repair tent.

Saturday

All boats seemed to be having problems moving their foils up and down and ID Intranet had a lot of problems with the port foil,  Euro raced with both foils down most of the day - was that the plan?

When Euro was back on land the boat was 3 metres up in the air so they could deploy the foils and they were working on the foils going up and down - so maybe they had similar issues.

Euro were the the best crew, had it very together but as noted above - they were not slick everytime.

The lack of close racing didn't make it very exciting, we had a couple of crosses occur and ID intranet had to duck, but that was about it.

It was fun to be there, interesting to see the technology in action, but as for exciting racing, I'm not convinced it will bring the masses or make good TV coverage.

I'm not going out there on Sunday to watch more. 

 

This is whole new level of sailboat racing development.  Of course there are going to be growing pains, like all the other paradigm shifts before, in any new technology.  I am very excited to see this new change in the sport that I love, and I believe that the future is rosy for foiling race boats!  I am a geezer from the IOR days of the early '80's, so there's no way  I will race on these boats.  Still, I look forward to the forward development of the sport, that I am passionate about, and the future!!  I would be happy to pitch in and volunteer for RC or Mark/Crash boat duty when these boats come to ELIS!!  I they ever do???

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2 hours ago, Ocean View said:

 

Said Tech2 caught the finish line buoy mooring line with their rudder - which is what flipped them and ripped the back of the boat off on Friday night in the first race.

You can see the video on the sf news section of their webpage

It looked like the marker they rounded was a fixed pylon nav marker, not a floating buoy. The interview indicated they just bore away, accelerated and the back fell off...which isn't supposed to happen...i think thats a chance in a million though...

 

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3 hours ago, Ocean View said:

I was there yesterday on the water and here's a bit of on the water info.

People I know who were there Friday night -

Said Tech2 caught the finish line buoy mooring line with their rudder - which is what flipped them and ripped the back of the boat off on Friday night in the first race.

You can see the video on the sf news section of their webpage

The boats heading back to Nowra to be repaired as they couldn't fix it in the on-site repair tent.

Saturday

All boats seemed to be having problems moving their foils up and down and ID Intranet had a lot of problems with the port foil,  Euro raced with both foils down most of the day - was that the plan?

When Euro was back on land the boat was 3 metres up in the air so they could deploy the foils and they were working on the foils going up and down - so maybe they had similar issues.

Euro were the the best crew, had it very together but as noted above - they were not slick everytime.

The lack of close racing didn't make it very exciting, we had a couple of crosses occur and ID intranet had to duck, but that was about it.

It was fun to be there, interesting to see the technology in action, but as for exciting racing, I'm not convinced it will bring the masses or make good TV coverage.

I'm not going out there on Sunday to watch more. 

Thanks for that.

I’m going to send the organizers a bill for the 25 minutes of my time I gave them to watch one race. It’s like a dumbed down version of the last AC challenger series, with massive leads.

A boring parade.

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For a new class and concept I thought the live stream was awesome. Way better than the Volvo shit. Great last race in perfect conditions and the commentary was awesome. People like Ashby and Outteridge don't get involved in shit projects. This was a huge win I thought. Now they need a sponsor and prize money..............................

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I was there Friday night and had a chat to Nath, Goobs and Ashby. Apparently these are harder to sail than the AC’s. Absolute weapons.

biggest issue I see other than teething problems and a steep learning curve for everyone is that they have a very narrow wind range. Most boats foiled maybe 30-50% of the time  in 10-12knots and they call the racing off at 18.

 

boring as batshit when they don’t foil.

You could see the development over the 3 days of racing. Just look at the last race.

its early days and superfoiler 2.0 will be better, if they can afford to keep it going.

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Clearly the Ed or Clean didn't get this invites they wanted. Purile BS on the front page. Why would you piss on a radical development idea like this before it's had a shot? Yes, coverage on Saturday sucked, and it was SOO obvious that Outridge and team, who are class sailors who had been boat testing a couple of weeks longer than most of the others, would shit on the opposition to start with. But man, Sunday was really showing the potential. SOME close racing (not a lot) but the production crew were getting their shit together and commentators were less nervous, more hyped and the tech started to work. Good drone shots, tracking, onboard speed etc. Maybe a scrap of truth on the front page in that everything really needed a bit more time to settle before launch, but I'm putting it out there that if the weather on Port Phillip Bay behaves, it will be sweet next week!

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Have seen them practicing during Sail Sydney and watched them racing today in Adelaide and as I've stated before their foiling wheel base looks a little on the short side .

Would really like to hear some opinions from someone like Simon N ,Phil S or any Moth sailer who has sailed them pre and post fitting of the rudder gantry setup and how it affected the boats behaviour?

Noticed the Euroflex guys change helms a couple of times on the upwind legs with the forward hand going around the front of the mast then picking up the tiller on the new tack .

All boats 4point foiling down wind which looked quite sensible.

On a side note ,one young local 420 sailer received a substitute spot on one of the Super Foilers though a competing sailers unfortunate injury and was absolutely beaming at the end of the day from the experience .

All in all it was an entertaining experience for myself and the fairly substantial crowd in attendance and would have to think that the racing will get closer as the events progress .

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