dylan winter

Girl with patreon account goes sailing in hot place

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5 hours ago, olaf hart said:

Lady Sutherland lived for a large part of her life in London, and her husband was the British Ambassador to france

From Wikipedia

 

 

 
Other interestsEdit

Lady Sutherland twice raised a volunteer regiment, the "Sutherlandshire Fencibles", in 1779 and 1793, which was later deployed in suppressing Irish rebellion of 1798.[1]

In 1790 her husband was appointed Ambassador to France and she accompanied him to Paris. She was able to witness the revolutionary events first-hand and wrote descriptions about the political turmoil in France at that time.[2] Lady Sutherland and her husband had difficulty obtaining permission to leave Paris and did not finally travel to London until 1792.

During the 1790s, Lady Sutherland became a leading figure of the social season in London. Her dinner parties and balls were attended by royalty, nobility and leading politicians, both foreign and domestic. She and her husband became close friends with George Canning who considered her beautiful, intelligent, and charming - a view not shared by members of her own class and sex, who thought her overbearing.[2]

When not in public, Lady Sutherland's interests included corresponding with Sir Walter Scott and, as she was a gifted artist, painting watercolour landscapes of the Sutherland coast and of Dunrobin Castle, among other subjects.[2] She was also an accomplished oil painter. She drew and etched a series of views in the Orkney Islands and north-east coast of Scotland, which were published between 1805 and 1807.[1]

Lady Sutherland spent a lot of time raising her four children. She placed a special emphasis on maximising the wealth of her sons and (as was common at the time) obtaining the best possible marriages for her daughters. Eric Richards observes that she "dominated her sons and probably her husband as well".[2]

Shortly before his death in July 1833, her husband was created Duke of Sutherland and Lady Sutherland became the Duchess of Sutherland. After her husband's death her Scottish estates were managed for her on her behalf. She died, aged seventy-three, on 29 January 1839 at Hamilton Place, Hyde Park, London. She was buried on 20 February 1839, with great pomp at Dornoch Cathedral, in Sutherland.[1][2] Her comital title passed to her eldest son, George.[1]

A simple enough mistake to make based upon names

Lady Sutherland was the clan chief - she was was the one who invited the lick-spittle lowland money men who threw your ancestors off that wonderful  slice of geography

she was married to an englishman but thaqt does not make her english. She was the person who drove the clearances in Sutherland

try reading this book

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Highland-Clearances-John-Prebble/dp/0140028374

or watching this film

 

 

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9 hours ago, zenmasterfred said:

Yup Dylan, you make this a pleasure to follow and love the miles you put on your trusty Centaur.

they are excellent boats... designed for British conditions.

The boat is now sold .... not filming anymore.... just schlepping up and down the same east anglian estuary

I confess that   I feel a bit sad every time I drift past one as there are four on the Deben

on the bright side the internet continues to offer some very interesting films  about sailing in Britain.  The camerawork in these films is exceptional and the historical and social perspectives being offered about this wonderful island are most enlightening. Well worth investing the effort in supporting this sort of stuff.

https://www.patreon.com/Sailing_Ceil3

 

 

 

 

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"on the bright side the internet continues to offer some very interesting films  about sailing  in Britain"...

But he is not exactly picking up you're mantle, after all he is 'sailing the world'....

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2 hours ago, Bobby Joylove said:

"on the bright side the internet continues to offer some very interesting films  about sailing  in Britain"...

But he is not exactly picking up you're mantle, after all he is 'sailing the world'....

he is taking his time about leaving here - and in the meantime we get to enjoy the incisive journallism and commentry that  he brings  to our screens

he may well get to lands end and decide that he should turn right up the Irish Sea and expose his string of eastern european good time girls to some scottish culture

welcome to the free web lads where the world is shrunk to the  lowest common denominator

D - currently saving up for shit box mark 4

 

 

 

 

 

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zOMG!!!!   Broken shackle!!!!!!   At deck level!!!!   In a full Force 1 Gale!!!!!!

Amazingly ... not many dead.   Disaster scene begins at 13.13

#JesusWept

 

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

zOMG!!!!   Broken shackle!!!!!!   At deck level!!!!   In a full Force 1 Gale!!!!!!

Amazingly ... not many dead.   Disaster scene begins at 13.13

#JesusWept

 

It's not funny; the front could have fallen off!

How did you sit through 13 minutes to get to the exciting part?

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The thumbnail is the exciting part.

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On 6/3/2018 at 12:34 AM, dylan winter said:

as a keen observer of the sailing vloggers who post every week for the sake of patreon it seems to me that it is beginning to dawn on them that maintaining a flow of good sailing and bikini shots is proving to be a bit of a challenge - especially when you spend a whole month hanging around some astonishingly unexfeptional anchorages that are close to civilisation - for the sake of the bandwidth of uploading a film of some sort each week

More rather tedious fettling and dog walking vids appearing each week

 

 

Patreon revenue.... $204 per fim..... I can see that more of these also ran cute wife channels that are as yet failing to hit the Delos/Lavag scales of paydirt will be going dark

https://www.patreon.com/sailingsatori/overview

 

I think that the golden age of sailing film making is slowly ebbing away

 

Dylan

 

 

 

 

 

 

Absolute shit & crap.  I'll refrain from going into further detail so as to avoid pissing everyone off.

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14 hours ago, Black Sox said:

It's not funny; the front could have fallen off!

How did you sit through 13 minutes to get to the exciting part?

Oh FFS, why did I click on it why!  

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I have discovered my viewing tastes change. I was a fan of Delos principaly when they were in an area I hadn't been to and the characters were interesting. Since leaving Cape Town with new and not particularly engaging characters I haven't bothered to go back.

So despite viewing numbers/growth being static on the more popular channels, I wonder if whether behind those numbers there is a lot of viewer churn or do they rely on large numbers of rusted on fans?

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59 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I have discovered my viewing tastes change. I was a fan of Delos principaly when they were in an area I hadn't been to and the characters were interesting. Since leaving Cape Town with new and not particularly engaging characters I haven't bothered to go back.

So despite viewing numbers/growth being static on the more popular channels, I wonder if whether behind those numbers there is a lot of viewer churn or do they rely on large numbers of rusted on fans?

interesting point. I know that when I changed boat from 18 to 26 feet lots of the people who watched my films stopped because the boat was too big. I also picked up a lot more hits when I was making films about the solent... lost a few when I got to scotland.

People like to watch films about places they already know about. 

hard to argue with delos/lavag productivity and viewing stats though

 

D

 

 

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52 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I have discovered my viewing tastes change. I was a fan of Delos principaly when they were in an area I hadn't been to and the characters were interesting. Since leaving Cape Town with new and not particularly engaging characters I haven't bothered to go back.

So despite viewing numbers/growth being static on the more popular channels, I wonder if whether behind those numbers there is a lot of viewer churn or do they rely on large numbers of rusted on fans?

Yes, I'd agree with you. I find that when some of these vloggers get to the same places as everyone else and take movies of themselves drinking/anchoring next to the other bunches of vloggers, or going to the same places everyone else has already done, I stop watching.

Barry (Adventures of an old sea dog) has dropped the ball recently IMO. Maybe now he's in the Pacific things might improve some.

AS for the OMG! I dropped a shackle pin over the side! dramatics - get a life. Another one if you can't do better.....

FKT

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1 minute ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yes, I'd agree with you. I find that when some of these vloggers get to the same places as everyone else and take movies of themselves drinking/anchoring next to the other bunches of vloggers, or going to the same places everyone else has already done, I stop watching.

Barry (Adventures of an old sea dog) has dropped the ball recently IMO. Maybe now he's in the Pacific things might improve some.

AS for the OMG! I dropped a shackle pin over the side! dramatics - get a life. Another one if you can't do better.....

FKT

And let's have unpixellated tits. FFS, are we not men?

 

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1 minute ago, dylan winter said:

interesting point. I know that when I changed boat from 18 to 26 feet lots of the people who watched my films stoped because the boat was too big. I also picked up a lot more hits when I was making films about the solent... lost a few when I got to scotland.

You lost me when you got to Scotland for some of your movies because you increased the length to where it was hard to find the time to sit & watch, plus I don't have the bandwidth to do what you thought I should do, which was d/load them and watch them on a big screen TV that I don't own. So a part, maybe a very small part, was due to your choice of deciding on how people should view your work.

I'd still like to watch those but only if they were broken up into no more than 30 minutes each.

FKT

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1 hour ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yes, I'd agree with you. I find that when some of these vloggers get to the same places as everyone else and take movies of themselves drinking/anchoring next to the other bunches of vloggers, or going to the same places everyone else has already done, I stop watching.

Fah I'm not an average viewer as my tastes are firstly places remote, particularly like in Delos's case when they were doing circle work in the western Indian Ocean. Then when anyone is in a remote place I have been to I like to see how that place may have changed over the decades. Finally they can't grate and are of the ilk they don't have to rely  on some other fucker to be doing what they  are doing regardless if they are on a little shitbox living on a shoestring or something more substantial and they don't have money problems.

As a consequence of that I find my viewing choice extremely limited these days to a select fettler (lovely word that of Dylan's) or two like the Tally Ho guy and those like the Sailing into Freedom couple etc.

Dylan maybe able to answer the question of "viewer churn" stats? Also whether if hosting a channel you get some sort of demographic viewer interest info to help a host tailor their production accordingly?

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

Far I'm not an average viewer as my tastes are firstly places remote, particularly like in Delos's case when they were doing circle work in the western Indian Ocean. Then when anyone is in a remote place I have been to I like to see how if they have changed over the decades. Finally they can't grate and are of the ilk they don't have to rely  on some other fucker to be doing what they  are doing regardless if they are on a little shitbox and a shoestring or something more substantial and they don't have money problems.

As a consequence of that I find my viewing choice extremely limited these days to a select fettler (lovely word that of his) or two like the Tally Ho guy and the Sailing into Freedom couple etc.

Dylan maybe able to answer the question of "viewer churn" stats? Also whether if hosting a channel you get some sort of demographic viewer interest info to help a host tailor their production accordingly?

40 per cent of my films are now watched on smart tvs -

 

a transorrmation that has gone from almost nothing to the platform leader - man the web moves fast.  As a film maker that is marvelous as people see them at their best

hence the move to longer format films -

my films are watched mainly by old men aged 50 to 70

half in America

of course what matters is who pays rather than who watches - and that is a problem with smart tvs as going to a paypal button means opening a laptop

 

La vag has 300,000 hits per film - but the only ones who count at the 1500 patreons = everyone else is all but irrelevant - you included. You are also irrelevant to the fettlers unless you engage in some way with them

from what you say above you prefer channels where you are never asked to chip in as you find that uncomfortable - nothing wrong with that..... unless, of course,  you wish to influence the sort of films that are made.

if youy don't engage then the web will offer you this

 

 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Fah I'm not an average viewer as my tastes are firstly places remote, particularly like in Delos's case when they were doing circle work in the western Indian Ocean. Then when anyone is in a remote place I have been to I like to see how that place may have changed over the decades.

I do as well - it's why I watched the Sailing into freedom ones because 30+ years ago I was poking around the coast on a small fishing boat from the Gulf of Carpentaria down to Port Hedland. It looks like things haven't changed a *huge* amount (places like Broome have of course) so I'm encouraged to think of going back there myself in a year or so.

Ditto other remote places like South Georgia and Patagonia. Maybe we'll go there but it seems unlikely - a friend of mine has the right boat, big steel motorsailer with enclosed pilot house, but there's considerable resistance from the females - his wife would rather go to Fiji. I don't really want to take my 12m boat any further south than where I am in Tasmania, I know what the Southern Ocean is like already.

Dylan's the only one I've donated any money to. I think his filming & narration is a substantial cut above the rest of the pack, pity the project ground to a halt for lack of funds but - shrug.

The Adventure Adrift couple sailing in the Sea of Cortez went to some interesting places - I was surprised at how few other boats they encountered that close to the US border.

FKT

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Here we go - the anti-Delos. Bad music? Check. Not so professional editing? Check. Hard core repairs? Check. Mustaches only? Check. Well used tools? Check. 

But I like it. I've already learned some things. 

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The Zataras have started making vids about their new toy. All I can say is $$$$$$$. Mr Z sure is optimistic about his fuel figures. He thinks he will use less fuel than the Beneteau even though he has 2 x 120 hp Volvos and a 13 kw Onan.

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58 minutes ago, savoir said:

The Zataras have started making vids about their new toy. All I can say is $$$$$$$. Mr Z sure is optimistic about his fuel figures. He thinks he will use less fuel than the Beneteau even though he has 2 x 120 hp Volvos and a 13 kw Onan.

I had to google a bit to dissuade myself of the troubling thought that the boat has a 13kw seed-spiller

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Being an inveterate sinner, I'm a bit lost amidst all that bible stuff.

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28 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

I had to google a bit to dissuade myself of the troubling thought that the boat has a 13kw seed-spiller

I'm not sure Onanism was the sole function of the generator (perhaps a very energetic masturbatory appliance?) but I tuned them out after the religious undertones and gun-fag-ism came to the top.

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12 minutes ago, rattus32 said:

I'm not sure Onanism was the sole function of the generator (perhaps a very energetic masturbatory appliance?) but I tuned them out after the religious undertones and gun-fag-ism came to the top.

13kw of Oananism sounds like an industrial upgrade of this product

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For those who are too lazy to do it the old fashioned way!

I’all take the sleeve, thank you very much.

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On 5/8/2018 at 12:07 AM, TwoLegged said:

Interesting, but don't necessarily mean he didn't come from the posh.  Even some aristos take the rough path.

And that accent.  Ed, you live in England; surely you know which habitats such accents live in. 

Tell us about yourself 2L ... assuming you were, do you ever feel guilty about being born with two legs, and the inherent advantages that gives you?  

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5 hours ago, Mr. Ed said:

Tell us about yourself 2L ... assuming you were, do you ever feel guilty about being born with two legs, and the inherent advantages that gives you?  

Ed, like all other 2-legged people, I was born with 4 legs but never learnt to use the front legs for walking.  As a result I walk around precariously balanced on my back legs, without the stability and traction of 4-legged drive.

The wise 4-legged people in my life do not regard this as a deficiency of birth.  They see it as a failure of willpower, exacerbated by poor parenting.

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6 hours ago, dylan winter said:

 

 

 

and the merch of course

https://www.redbubble.com/people/sailingzatara/shop?asc=u

 

I have decided to start selling merch myself

 

the range will start off with the ever popular and stylish thinsulate hat

cworkwear_thinsulate_beanie.jpg

 

followed by

 

everlastin pitta bread

164.jpg

 

is the KTL marketing dept nailing it ot what!

 

 

 

 

No KTL coffee mugs ?

Actually, given that you are British they probably should be tea mugs. Give Fortnum and Mason a call.

 

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5 minutes ago, savoir said:

 

No KTL coffee mugs tea cozies?

 

FIFY

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49 minutes ago, Elegua said:

Toilet brush....

OMFG, this would be hilarious:  "The official KTL bog brush!"

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2 hours ago, Ajax said:

OMFG, this would be hilarious:  "The official KTL bog brush!"

Special souvenir edition: the actual bog brush used on KTL for the 2017 season.  Genuine original item, with genuine original debris still in bristles.  Signed certificate of authenticiy included.
 
Yours for only £199, including postage. 

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47 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Special souvenir edition: the actual bog brush used on KTL for the 2017 season.  Genuine original item, with genuine original debris still in bristles.  Signed certificate of authenticiy included.
 
Yours for only £199, including postage. 

Eww, I'd settle for a clean replica. ;)

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On 6/9/2018 at 7:24 AM, TwoLegged said:

zOMG!!!!   Broken shackle!!!!!!   At deck level!!!!   In a full Force 1 Gale!!!!!!

Amazingly ... not many dead.   Disaster scene begins at 13.13

#JesusWept

 

Good Lord I thought the MIss Lone Star woman had given up.  Heh now there was a trainwreck of a channel.

It had everything a good telenovela needed, sex, booze, boat up on the rocks, domestic abuse, boat repossession...

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Has this movie/group been covered yet?

I bought it on iTunes last night. Worth every penny.

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

Special souvenir edition: the actual bog brush used on KTL for the 2017 season.  Genuine original item, with genuine original debris still in bristles.  Signed certificate of authenticiy included.
 
Yours for only £199, including postage. 

Make sure it comes with the free instructional video...

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See bandwagon. Jump on it...

(Maybe there was some actual, decent content. I fast-forwarded through it after a few minutes, only stopping when there was an actual boat in the picture. That was not very often...)

Sailing blah blah..."around the world" blah blah chick and a git shop Beneteau lookalikes

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The KTL bog brush video would be nicely narrated with calming music and ranting about protestant twazzocks being rat bastards who left kling-ons in the bog.  It would be worth the £199 on its own.  One would have to fast forward through the obligatory 5 minutes of scenes of birds flying about, unless one is in to that sort of thing.

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Click bait from 1960: I particularly enjoyed the way “photographer” held the rolleiflex.

 

And from 1933

 

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Sigh... :wub:

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They scrub the hull, swab the decks, crank the winches AND drink tea from a cup and saucer. What's not to like ?

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3 girls in a boat has some great sailing footage. Skilled camera work vs. slock (posted vlogs). Goes to show, there's nothing new under the sun. 

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They should've stuck with the director of 2 girls 1 cup for the sequel.

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So Dylan, I am staying in Tighnabruaich at the moment, went over to Tarbert today on the small ferry to do some walking.

Have you been down this far yet? If not, you are in for a real treat...

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10 hours ago, Mr. Ed said:

Click bait from 1960: I particularly enjoyed the way “photographer” held the rolleiflex.

 

And from 1933

 

If you look closely, he's using the speed finder. The hood has a section that folds down so you can view the shot like that.

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28 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

If you look closely, he's using the speed finder. The hood has a section that folds down so you can view the shot like that.

Oo, I didn't know that. Sorry Mr. Photographer, for that unwarranted aspersion, which I retract. 

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Now we know who stole my Dad’s Rollieflex camera!

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1 hour ago, olaf hart said:

So Dylan, I am staying in Tighnabruaich at the moment, went over to Tarbert today on the small ferry to do some walking.

Have you been down this far yet? If not, you are in for a real treat...

How long you in our sceptic isles for? 

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51 minutes ago, Mr. Ed said:

How long you in our sceptic isles for? 

In the west of Scotland for a couple of weeks, then off down the west coast of Ireland to meet up with family in Dingle.

Open to suggestions, a very loose itinerary for a road trip..

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Sorry no tits

But it's about some kiwi boats, so it's cool...

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1 hour ago, olaf hart said:

In the west of Scotland for a couple of weeks, then off down the west coast of Ireland to meet up with family in Dingle.

Open to suggestions, a very loose itinerary for a road trip..

 

Dingle is a lot of fun. It has the best pubs in Ireland although they are a little pricey. Allow plenty of time for driving because all the best roads are narrow and winding. You will spend plenty of time only doing 30 - 40 kph. It would be quite easy to spend a week going from Galway to Dingle. A couple of days on the Ring of Kerry would also be worthwhile. You WILL need a raincoat.

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If God wills it, we’ll be sailing past the Blaskets in the middle of next week. We’ve put 3 weeks aside to get from Baltimore to Lough Swilly: it’s only 300 miles odd point to point but it still doesn’t seem like enough time, for there are so many lovely places on that coast. We went to Skellig Michael twice last year, once in a tripper boat which is about the only practical way to land there but was rather a sterile experience: I spent most of it photographing two near identical Chinese women photographing each other endlessly.

It was a different matter from the water on our boat - it really is an astonishing place and the experience of Sailing around the rocks was very moving, as were the Blaskets which you can visit easily (Great Blasket at least) and soulfully. 

We’ve been trying to cut down delivery times by leaving the boat abroad and It’s a strange change in rhythm for us. It’s been two months since we’ve seen the boat - I fear I will have forgotten how it all works. 

 

 

 

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There are landings on both Inishabro and Inishvickillane. You would probably have to anchor a little East off the NE corner of Inishvickillane and then go by dinghy. The breeze has to be in the West. The landing on Inishvickillane fairly close by is a small beach on the NW corner.

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On 6/1/2018 at 2:17 AM, jack_sparrow said:

De Niro did ironicaly the same marketing ploy by saying Trump was banned from his hotels/food chain.

These two are hilarious...

Imagine what would happen if Trump finding out about this Babuda thing with Mr Bobby then referenced it via the Vagamites channel on his Twitter feed.

They would would overflowing with Patreons from Tennessee. 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

To be Top of the Patreon Pops you have to put in the work.

 

their work ethic is impressive - and they are all in great shape - best stick to the hot places where we can see how good they are - all part of the mix

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I don't watch them with any regularity, but during the winter I watched the episode where they rounded the northern end of Madagascar dealing with some frightful winds all night long. The boat was impressive in those conditions and the people kept their wits about them. It was worth watching.

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Friday morning is my Delos day.   I love these guys. I got to meet Brian and Brady and the rest of the crew in Florida a few years ago. They are down to earth good people with a killer work ethic great sailing skills and an appetite for adventure. 

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I agree. Delos is the real deal, and always a good watch with not much filler. It helps that they are out there doing stuff. 

A few days ago, I went back and watches some of the older Delos videos. Episodes in the 30s and 40s or so. Kind of made me nostalgic for the old rough and tumble Delos videos where they were gunk-holing and partying in coves in Indonesia. Those had such an awesome feel of young people out there exploring and trying to scrapping make it work. Their excitement is palpable. The videos seemed like an afterthought. Creates a stark contrast with the channels who are out the to be youtube stars and push content, and the cruising is the afterthought.

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strangely enough .... following the AT and T and take-over of Time Warner most of my films (and presumably any other vloggers who have ever used music  in their films),  are now claimed for exploitation on you tube and everywhere  by AT and T - whereas previously they were owned and claimed for exploitation by Time Warner.

needless to say that they never asked content creators , nor will they pay them ... but it is nice to know that my films were one crucial element   of a massive international deal.  I like to think that an englishman making films about sailing in Britain could have been a cornerstone of the deal between these big American conglomerates.

Trump tried to save me and my work from falling into the hands of an avaricious and perfidious  mega-corporation. I don't mind either way though.  One mega corporation is much the same as another.  It is interesting to watch the way the monetisation works.

 

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As long as there's a never ending stream of Patreons marks, there will be a never ending supply of grifters.

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2 hours ago, fragglerock said:

There is a never ending stream!

 

Nice boat for this pair.

 

 

these guys are well above average for their production skills

they are good... but it is now such a familiar story... re-hashed again and again and again

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On 6/14/2018 at 11:33 AM, freewheelin said:

I agree. Delos is the real deal, and always a good watch with not much filler. It helps that they are out there doing stuff. 

A few days ago, I went back and watches some of the older Delos videos. Episodes in the 30s and 40s or so. Kind of made me nostalgic for the old rough and tumble Delos videos where they were gunk-holing and partying in coves in Indonesia. Those had such an awesome feel of young people out there exploring and trying to scrapping make it work. Their excitement is palpable. The videos seemed like an afterthought. Creates a stark contrast with the channels who are out the to be youtube stars and push content, and the cruising is the afterthought.

La Vag has a greater stark contrast between their early vids slumming it in Turkey & Cape Verde to their marina hopping on a $1Mil cat around the Med IMHO.  Compared to Delos, La Vag certainly gives of the vibe that this is indeed their career now, as they produce the same homogenized content as any other higher level content creator.

 

They were also a bit of a rarity having struck the social media motherlode on video #1.  Starting off with a high dollar camera and decent production quality had them hitting the ground running, doubtful any of the imitators can replicate that with just the typical GoPro & iPhone just a scant few years later.

 

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I feel this thing is gaining traction in the hipsterdom world.

My very millennial, micro-brewing, homemade bacon making, bearded, pant-short wearing, camping/outdoorsy, bike across Peru, cousin just called me up telling me he's taking sailing lessons with his wife.  He wants to go cruising. 

Think about it: It's micro/eco-house combined with trekking/camping with a lot of steam-punkish gear where they can co-opt/re-invent/culturally appropriate olde salte, seafaring, Sterling Hayden, real-man culture.

Dude, we've been going at marketing sailing in completely the wrong way. 

 

Anyway, he's went to a decent university, getting married and has a decent career....so maybe he can make a go of it. I'll help. 

 

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11 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

these guys are well above average for their production skills

they are good... but it is now such a familiar story... re-hashed again and again and again

The same royalty free soundtracks being rehashed over & over again don't help.  3secs in and I've watched half a dozen other sailing channels that have used that opening song.

I believe having a unique opening music intro can be important, Delos hit it out of the park with their Ramukanji, even La Vag back when they were carefree had a chord of the Good The Bad & The Ugly theme.

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8 minutes ago, Elegua said:

I feel this thing is gaining traction in the hipsterdom world.

My very millennial, micro-brewing, homemade bacon making, bearded, pant-short wearing, camping/outdoorsy, bike across Peru, cousin just called me up telling me he's taking sailing lessons with his wife.  He wants to go cruising. 

Think about it: It's micro/eco-house combined with trekking/camping with a lot of steam-punkish gear where they can co-opt/re-invent/culturally appropriate olde salte, seafaring, Sterling Hayden, real-man culture.

Dude, we've been going at marketing sailing in completely the wrong way. 

 

Anyway, he's went to a decent university, getting married and has a decent career....so maybe he can make a go of it. I'll help. 

 

I think you are on to something.

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4 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

I think you are on to something.

Me too. 

Maybe my thinking is too provincial, but I think the sailboat industry missed the boat as they kept building bigger and more complicated cruising dwellings. Way back when, sailing was a quiet -small foot print, green sport. And that was way before green became fashionable. 

 

Now millennials see these sailboats, enormous fossil fuel burning platforms that are primarily a life support system for a dormitory sized refrigerator and a million outdated gizmo's(their iphone 6 is smarter). What would they want with those (they bike to work)? Sailing took a back seat with these big cruising platforms, that nobody builds anymore. 

 

I think they (the few sailors) may like the idea of cheap boats that can be simplified with off the grid systems(not a diesel generator), that could take a few of them somewhere. I doubt they will buy into the cruising lifestyle ala' 70-80 Pardey's. I think that all encompassing life style will not interest them. 

 

I think they will combine sailing with other exotic forms of travel, work,  mountaineering, biking, work. There's no $ in this idea (simpler, nimbler sailboats) for boat builders. Everything the few millennials (that will sail) need is out there in a huge, cheap, supply. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

Me too. 

Maybe my thinking is too provincial, but I think the sailboat industry missed the boat as they kept building bigger and more complicated cruising dwellings. Way back when, sailing was a quiet -small foot print, green sport. And that was way before green became fashionable. 

 

Now millennials see these sailboats, enormous fossil fuel burning platforms that are primarily a life support system for a dormitory sized refrigerator and a million outdated gizmo's(their iphone 6 is smarter). What would they want with those (they bike to work)? Sailing took a back seat with these big cruising platforms, that nobody builds anymore. 

 

I think they (the few sailors) may like the idea of cheap boats that can be simplified with off the grid systems(not a diesel generator), that could take a few of them somewhere. I doubt they will buy into the cruising lifestyle ala' 70-80 Pardey's. I think that all encompassing life style will not interest them. 

 

I think they will combine sailing with other exotic forms of travel, work,  mountaineering, biking, work. There's no $ in this idea (simpler, nimbler sailboats) for boat builders. Everything the few millennials (that will sail) need is out there in a huge, cheap, supply. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

or...

 

as many of them are  doing - buy a big boat and chuck out the fridge, radar, diesel inboard. 

the problem is that yachts last too damn long - the hulls are almost immortal, the masts ditto -

D

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Just now, Kris Cringle said:

Me too. 

Maybe my thinking is too provincial, but I think the sailboat industry missed the boat as they kept building bigger and more complicated cruising dwellings. Way back when, sailing was a quiet -small foot print, green sport. And that was way before green became fashionable. 

 

Now millennials see these sailboats, enormous fossil fuel burning platforms that are primarily a life support system for a dormitory sized refrigerator and a million outdated gizmo's(their iphone 6 is smarter). What would they want with those (they bike to work)? Sailing took a back seat with these big cruising platforms, that nobody builds anymore. 

 

I think they (the few sailors) may like the idea of cheap boats that can be simplified with off the grid systems(not a diesel generator), that could take a few of them somewhere. I doubt they will buy into the cruising lifestyle ala' 70-80 Pardey's. I think that all encompassing life style will not interest them. 

 

I think they will combine sailing with other exotic forms of travel, work,  mountaineering, biking, work. There's no $ in this idea (simpler, nimbler sailboats) for boat builders. Everything the few millennials (that will sail) need is out there in a huge, cheap, supply. 

 

The few millenials I see floating around are mostly on crappy small old fiberglass boats, because they could not afford anything else. Most of millenials don't sail, because it's expensive, boring, hard work and internet sucks on the ocean.

I think the condo plastic sailboat in production nowadays are marketed to early retirees- middle age professional who goes sabbatical - not so early retiree who don't have stamina or desire for simple, off the grid, uncomfortable boats.

Outremer engaged the Vagabond for their marketing project, but markets to who still have some money in their pocket, and they ain't no millenials.

Old rich ugly newbie cruisers sailors wants to look La vagabond and they think buying a condo catamaran will make the trick.

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2 hours ago, dylan winter said:

these guys are well above average for their production skills

they are good... but it is now such a familiar story... re-hashed again and again and again

The basic story defines the genre: couple buys old boat after brokerage search, recommissions it, sets off learning to sail.

The differentiator is how that story is told.

Routine recommissioning makes boring video.  This couple acknowledged that by fast fwding most of the recommissioning, which is a good sign.  But what video will they make next?

Most of those doing it are fundamentally boring people who lack both self-reflectivity and much awareness of the places they visit.  Boring people in pretty places makes dull, formulaic video, and under-editing exacerbates the problem.  

Delos also has a wide and deep hinterland of fans who help them explore around each port.  Most of these people have none of that.

Delos works v hard to tell a story of the people onboard and their interactions.  They film manically, then edit ruthlessly and carefully, with a team to critique the work before release.  Most of the youtubers do none of this.  They have only a couple, rather than a team, and they don't bare their relationship before the camera.  They don't have enough people to film v much or edit v  much.


So what we're left with is dozens (maybe hundreds) of channels which are basically low-budget floating versions of The Waltons.  Even with bikinis, that gets boring.

La Vag works becuase they are engaging people who open up to camera.  Sailing Miss Lonestar works as psychic carcrash.  Sail Life is expertly narrated OCD.  Wicked Salty is world-class clue-averse.

But most of the rest have no story to tell beyond omg-we're-in-a-boat!!!!!!! and and no idea how to tell a story.

My favourite example of this is MJ Sailing.  Sweet and kindly couple who worked hard to rebuild an aluminium boat.  But they have no dramatic tension, no insight, no changes of mood.  They are always affable, inoffensive, cautiously-spoken, and calmly mannered: no tempers, no sulks, no rages, no rows, no laughter, no angst, no insight.  So the end result is as exciting as watching an automatic washing machine.

What most of these folks is a break from video-making until they learn how to keep and hold an audience.   Something like an open mic night in a Dublin or Glasgow pub, before a well-pickled crowd armed with rotten fruit.  Those who have what it takes leave the stage alive.

As ever, the masterclass was provided by Dylan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtMg0_EFg-Y

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1 hour ago, Kris Cringle said:

Maybe my thinking is too provincial, but I think the sailboat industry missed the boat as they kept building bigger and more complicated cruising dwellings. Way back when, sailing was a quiet -small foot print, green sport. And that was way before green became fashionable. 

the sailboat industry missed the boat back in the 1960s–1980s when they churned  out boats which are still serviceable (or at least easily refurbishable) 50 years later.

The low-cost green boat has been tried: the Bente 24. Excellent concept, nice to sail, but it's a tiny weekender. Even in its most minimalist config it costs €24k ex works.  That's with no sails, no outboard, no icebox, no cooker, no lights.  Putting even a half-usable one on the water in the North Sea will cost at least €35k ... which buys three Westerly Centaurs in good condition.  And each of those Centaurs is a genuine potential liveaboard.

So the sailboat industry is stuffed. 

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It’s not just sailboats that have become “...more complicated...”. This world we live in is a different place.  From our phones, to our television, our cars to our homes, life is simply very different. I find myself both drawn to some of modern life and repulsed by parts. Such is the impact of progress I guess.

As for the sailboat industry, the signs have been there for ages. The biggest  and most exciting Newport boat show I ever attended was my first show in the late 1980’s and people were  talking about how it was nothing like previous shows. Thirty years later the Newport International Boatshow is a bit of a joke. I wish I was bright enough to understand all of the forces responsible for what has happened. I’ve participated in lots of conversations on the subject and heard a lot of ideas and I’m not sure it is easy to pin sailings demise on any single event.

My thinking is that as we evolve as a society, we are continually losing touch with something pure. Gone are so many of the ideals  we grew up with and took for granted. Yes, we’ve  made some progress as people but  we have given up ground too. Things like a self reliant attitude, that I believe is a necessary trait for cruising under sail are dwindling rapidly. Never mind having the time or funds... Most people who sailed 40 and 50 years ago had interest in and took the time to learn some navigation skills, sailing skills and had a curiosity about weather. Many people made the budget work by maintaining the boats themselves. With weather  and navigation being a simple glance at the screen of your phone, maintenance something done only by someone else and a day sailing consisting of unfurling the headsail only, sailing has lost more than we know. In this day and age of insurance companies peddling policies to protect Junior from the stress of a flat tire that he has now idea how to change, how can we expect people to want to (gasp) sail?

It is not just sailboats...

Bruce

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Someone had an accidental jibe and broke their gooseneck... I'm glad they are finally getting some sailing lessons. IMO, they've been *very* lucky to have made it so far with so little experience.

Dylan - I get some moolah this week, will be slinging some of it your way. I used to have a sub when you did that, but its been a few years, and I don't want you to go away.

 

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Update,

Ceil 3 is joining a plastic ocean research vessel in the Baltic in August.

Keep an eye on the youtube channel for daily Vlogs and updates.

The research vessel partnered with Ceil 3 will be making global awareness of the plastic soup in the oceans.

This project will follow on for the rest of the summer.

More information to follow.

 

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19 hours ago, Cuntyhunk said:

Most of millenials don't sail, because it's expensive, boring, hard work and internet sucks on the ocean.

These comments make me laugh. Walk around any yacht club, it was not millennials that stopped sailing, it was genx. That is where the generation gap is. And it was not laziness, it was an aversion to the yachting culture of exclusivity and pretension (same with golf and country clubs). Add to that the arms race of boat costs, length, amenities. Sailing became a rich kid hobby, not a rough and tumble dream of exploring. Millenials aren't lazy, we are cautions. Entering the job market in 2008-2010 will do that to a person. All of a sudden that 100K for a later model 40 something footer doesn't seem as appealing at 10K for an earlier model 30 footer that can take you just as far, if not as fast or comfortably.

The funny thing is millenials are starting to sail. We have a guy giving lessons at our YC and he is booked solid with young people. And I agree that youtube has played a big part in it. I welcome that. It really can't be that much different than people in the 70s and 80s dreaming over sailing magazines, then going down to the docks to buy whatever they can afford to live their version of that dream each weekend. If it takes some yahoos on youtube to show young people that with a little money and a lot of work they can have an exciting and meaningful experience on the water, then that is a positive thing. And that is right up the millennial alley. So the desire and motivations haven't changed that much, it's the delivery platform that has. I think a resurgence is coming. Or maybe hope is a better word.

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55 minutes ago, freewheelin said:

The funny thing is millenials are starting to sail.

I hope you're right.

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2 hours ago, freewheelin said:

These comments make me laugh. Walk around any yacht club, it was not millennials that stopped sailing, it was genx. That is where the generation gap is. And it was not laziness, it was an aversion to the yachting culture of exclusivity and pretension (same with golf and country clubs). Add to that the arms race of boat costs, length, amenities. Sailing became a rich kid hobby, not a rough and tumble dream of exploring. Millenials aren't lazy, we are cautions. Entering the job market in 2008-2010 will do that to a person. All of a sudden that 100K for a later model 40 something footer doesn't seem as appealing at 10K for an earlier model 30 footer that can take you just as far, if not as fast or comfortably.

The funny thing is millenials are starting to sail. We have a guy giving lessons at our YC and he is booked solid with young people. And I agree that youtube has played a big part in it. I welcome that. It really can't be that much different than people in the 70s and 80s dreaming over sailing magazines, then going down to the docks to buy whatever they can afford to live their version of that dream each weekend. If it takes some yahoos on youtube to show young people that with a little money and a lot of work they can have an exciting and meaningful experience on the water, then that is a positive thing. And that is right up the millennial alley. So the desire and motivations haven't changed that much, it's the delivery platform that has. I think a resurgence is coming. Or maybe hope is a better word.

very well said -

that is why I come here

 

good writing

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3 hours ago, freewheelin said:

These comments make me laugh. Walk around any yacht club, it was not millennials that stopped sailing, it was genx. That is where the generation gap is. And it was not laziness, it was an aversion to the yachting culture of exclusivity and pretension (same with golf and country clubs). Add to that the arms race of boat costs, length, amenities. Sailing became a rich kid hobby, not a rough and tumble dream of exploring. Millenials aren't lazy, we are cautions. Entering the job market in 2008-2010 will do that to a person. All of a sudden that 100K for a later model 40 something footer doesn't seem as appealing at 10K for an earlier model 30 footer that can take you just as far, if not as fast or comfortably.

The funny thing is millenials are starting to sail. We have a guy giving lessons at our YC and he is booked solid with young people. And I agree that youtube has played a big part in it. I welcome that. It really can't be that much different than people in the 70s and 80s dreaming over sailing magazines, then going down to the docks to buy whatever they can afford to live their version of that dream each weekend. If it takes some yahoos on youtube to show young people that with a little money and a lot of work they can have an exciting and meaningful experience on the water, then that is a positive thing. And that is right up the millennial alley. So the desire and motivations haven't changed that much, it's the delivery platform that has. I think a resurgence is coming. Or maybe hope is a better word.

Having 2 of my own and knowing a whole bunch of them, it makes me chuckle too. But bashing the latest generation is older than baseball! It'll never end,...ever. :) 

 

Many of the millennials that grew up sailing around here - mostly with families, appear to be sailing in the same numbers as my generation (boomers that grew up sailing). A few that were turned off (usually by a parent(s) that made them go) have stopped, but that looks the same as it ever was. 

 

There are quite a few millennials sailing around here in cheap boats. That's an increase over my experience with my generation. We had to get older with better finances because the boats these kids are sailing for next to nothing, cost a pretty penny when I was their age. Because it's still fairly cheap to keep a boat around here,  the millennials are taking advantage of the cheap boats. 

 

I haven't heard a one of these young sailors that I know, mention the sailing blogs posted here. I'm surprised NOT to hear them talk about sailing as an escape. As you say, their version of sailing is different than the 70's 80's, Cruising World boomer version. Their version is yet to be defined. 

 

But then they have to get older, millennials (30's - 40's?), before they are in a position to do things like that (and be a serious boat buyer). That's the same as it ever was. 

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IMHO thinking by demographic is just lazy thinking.

People are individuals and make individua choices

Boats have become a lot cheaper, so they are more affordable.

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8 hours ago, Sailing ceil 3 said:

Update,

Ceil 3 is joining a plastic ocean research vessel in the Baltic in August.

Keep an eye on the youtube channel for daily Vlogs and updates.

The research vessel partnered with Ceil 3 will be making global awareness of the plastic soup in the oceans.

This project will follow on for the rest of the summer.

More information to follow.

 

Astounding! The jump to saving our world from plastic in the oceans from this...

Wow, just wow.

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40 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

 

People are individuals and make individua choices

 

See, I was almost in agreement that it was the Gen X'ers that quit sailing, it was the Millenials that started taking it up again mostly in part because of social media.

Then you have to say that.  From what I've seen of uni Millenials, you're allowed to think anything you want, as long as it's what everyone else thinks.

 

i.e.  I'd like to see one of the plethora of sailing channels just admit they are in it for the sun, booze & sex without having to make "social & environmental awareness" platitudes every other vid. 

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