dylan winter

Girl with patreon account goes sailing in hot place

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1 hour ago, Cristoforo said:

'Needs work'?  The teak is shot. Probably $100G in parts for starters and systems repairs even doing everything  himself before touching the deck.

But hey, he can do Yoga in the aft cabin so he's got that going for him!       

 

Work parties can be fun.   Blazing heat , achy knees, cheap beer & cans of tuna.   What more can you ask for?

As I read the comments it would seem pulling it all up and going with a synthetic may be the call here.   I don’t know - that’s why I check in on Zingaro.    

I say James will splash her inside of a year with a crew a beaut babes and ‘work-in-progress’ Zingaro2.

Come back soon Kimmie.

 

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4 hours ago, Ajax said:

Ah! The solution is to sail off the beaten path.

Or is it to follow closely on the heels of large ships, letting them attract the lighting strikes while you sail in a neutralized wake?

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2 hours ago, blunderfull said:

As I read the comments it would seem pulling it all up and going with a synthetic may be the call here.   I don’t know - that’s why I check in on Zingaro.    

I say James will splash her inside of a year with a crew a beaut babes and ‘work-in-progress’ Zingaro2.

Come back soon Kimmie.

He clearly is picturing the babes joining him in that aft cabin.  Having not followed Zingaro closely, the wife and I watched their break-up video. I said Kimmie must've dumped him after spending that time alone back in Germany, and wife said no way, he looks like a jerk and he dumped her. Who's right?

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Some may find this of interest; my apologies to the rest of you who'd rather see a well-filled bikini (if that is you, skip to the end ;) ). This is the last I'll add on this particular thread drift, but I thought I'd put it up as it has some good info.

I found a pamphlet titled "Lightning and Sailboats" which I am guessing what Mike referenced above, based on a 1992 U of Fla SeaGrant study. It is linked at the bottom of this; the stats below can be seen on Page 4.

TL;DR, or "hard numbers in a nutshell":
9 surveyors interviewed, each claimed 200+ sailboats surveyed in their careers.

On average (which varied widely, it is noted), 34% of all boats surveyed had LPS.
Of all the boats which had been surveyed, 29% of these surveys were due to the boat having been hit by lightning.

Of the boats hit, approximately (reading from a bar graph):
With LPS and in saltwater, 5% had holes 1/4" or larger below the waterline.
Without LPS, in saltwater, 8% had the same.
With LPS in freshwater, 20% had 1/4" or larger holes.
WIthout LPS in freshwater, 24%.

There were other damage categories mentioned, none of which were considered to contribute to sinking.

With no mention of any stats or other scientific basis, the pamphlet simply dismisses the possibility that an ungrounded boat is less likely to be hit.

It has lots of information on how to create a bonded grounding system.

https://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00073916/00001/1x

And now, back to the original topic... from https://wearetravelgirls.com/the-yacht-week/ :D
the-yacht-week-9.jpg

 

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11 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

Roger Barnes is the only Youtuber that I've followed in the sailing genre. He does a good job. Interesting seeing the coast of Brittany from a small boat. Good stuff. 

He's got me wanting to outfit my US18 and do the same. Considering dragging it south this winter for just that purpose, to kill some midwinter blues...

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25 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

He clearly is picturing the babes joining him in that aft cabin.  Having not followed Zingaro closely, the wife and I watched their break-up video. I said Kimmie must've dumped him after spending that time alone back in Germany, and wife said no way, he looks like a jerk and he dumped her. Who's right?

Who’ right?   Bingo, he’s hooking you two.  

Join the Patreon group and get the “inside” scoop.  Silly fun.

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6 hours ago, OPAL said:

Erik the viking is once again here to releave us from Bahamas snorkel diving ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lAfZonTJfY

 

Erik has lifted his game with much better photographic work these days.  I do kind of miss the cold spaghetti dinners which is said to be an ancient viking tradition.  He has replaced them with cold meatballs . . . . . . . . . . . . straight from the can of course.  No tits.

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18 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

He clearly is picturing the babes joining him in that aft cabin.  Having not followed Zingaro closely, the wife and I watched their break-up video. I said Kimmie must've dumped him after spending that time alone back in Germany, and wife said no way, he looks like a jerk and he dumped her. Who's right?

Having gone through two wonderful divorces, and having watched the Zingaro breakup video all I have to say is that they are being nice about it to handle the distribution of assets.  Patreon and youtube moneys along with capital assets in the last boat are likely mutually owned.  Kimmie better not walk away from that gold.

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2 hours ago, dylan winter said:

Lot of work went into this one

 

Nice unpretentious couple with that self-deprecating humour the British do so well.  I even like the dog and I'm not a dog guy.  And the boat is way bigger than I would ever want to own, but I subscribed anyway.

One thing is for certain, I am going to sail the West Country one day.  People waffle on how great my home waters of NZ are, Bay of Islands and all that....but for me England and its rivers, both deep and shallow, are where my heart lies.  

One day....

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My impression is this guy has a professional background in film or video, he certainly has the knack...

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4 hours ago, Dogscout said:

Having gone through two wonderful divorces, and having watched the Zingaro breakup video all I have to say is that they are being nice about it to handle the distribution of assets.  Patreon and youtube moneys along with capital assets in the last boat are likely mutually owned.  Kimmie better not walk away from that gold.

In other words, they really don't have anything to argue about . No kids,  houses, college debt, pets, grandma's engagement ring ( was it really a gift?)  and only a piddling income to split up. Its pretty easy to split up and stay friendly. When you got nothin, you got nothin to lose. Someone said I think.    

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11 hours ago, robtoujours said:

They're on a Warrior 38, which is also Mads' boat. They seem to be having more fun with it though?

ouch

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Some good info in the pamphlet above from the University of Florida.  Re lightning and sailboats, what is safer:

- anchor in harbor 

- tied to dock (remove electrical connections or doesn't matter?)

- just go sailing or motoring as you like.

curious if any of the above are known to make a difference?  

I sail in a freshwater lake and it is interesting / scary to read about the increased risk in freshwater.  My keelboat has a grounding system with its deck stepped mast grounded to a keel bolt via a large conductor mast but apparently this is not sufficient for freshwater.  

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On 10/28/2020 at 6:07 AM, robtoujours said:

They're on a Warrior 38, which is also Mads' boat. They seem to be having more fun with it though?

Define... 'fun'

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On 10/27/2020 at 10:02 AM, CapnK said:

Some may find this of interest; my apologies to the rest of you who'd rather see a well-filled bikini (if that is you, skip to the end ;) ). This is the last I'll add on this particular thread drift, but I thought I'd put it up as it has some good info.................


 

Get your teeth into this now,  it's a really good technical article wrt lightning and sailboats.

Complexities of Marine Lightning Protection.pdf

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8 hours ago, darth reapius said:

Define... 'fun'

In general, the consensus is : you get paid for doing the hard work, you pay to have fun. Crude and lacking subtilities, but it's a good starting point. The boat department is pretty true to that statement, and tends to place what Mads is doing in the "get paid" section. But you're right, to each their own.

 

Mmh. I'll reach him and see if I can get paid to sail his boat, then.

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To be fair getting paid fix up your own boat is a pretty sweet deal. Sure he has to have a camera running, but if you can deal with that then why not.
At one point I didn't think that boat would ever see the water again, but I think he's splashing within a month, so the end is in sight.

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On 10/27/2020 at 6:43 PM, dylan winter said:

Lot of work went into this one

 

It is a bit weird to see a vlog of waters I am used to, the Dart river is the easiest place to reach across the channel from St Malo!. I've subscribed, I must admit that I struggle a bit with posh accents, may be I wasn't mixing with the right kind of people in the UK!

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3 hours ago, MiddayGun said:

To be fair getting paid fix up your own boat is a pretty sweet deal. Sure he has to have a camera running, but if you can deal with that then why not.
At one point I didn't think that boat would ever see the water again, but I think he's splashing within a month, so the end is in sight.

He still has a long way to go once it hits the water to be functional.  To each his own but he's invested double the value of the boat and four years of his life ( so far )  for what at the end of the day will be an amateur build with lots of unexpected systems problems to continually sort out.  Or he could have bought something similar off the shelf and tested for less than $100k and been out sailing for the last 5 years.  He completely fabricated a new rudder and there was nothing wrong with the old one.  And that generator. WTF?  Anyway good luck to him. . Haven't seen Eva in quite a long time. Wonder if he has figured this all out, researched  'Denmark weather'  and took a runner?      

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1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

It is a bit weird to see a vlog of waters I am used to, the Dart river is the easiest place to reach across the channel from St Malo!. I've subscribed, I must admit that I struggle a bit with posh accents, may be I wasn't mixing with the right kind of people in the UK!

What's a posh accent?  Why would it be a problem?

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1 hour ago, MauiPunter said:

What's a posh accent?  Why would it be a problem?

Posh is the opposite of this - it’s a “true blue“ accent.

Dead end Yobs got football, boxing or rock n roll, 
if they're any good at, to save 'em from the dole, 
but even if ya make it, certain people will say, 
you're still no good and you'll be no other way. 
'cos ya don't talk proper, ya accent ain't true blue, 
born in a house in Hackney, with an outside loo. 
Dead end yobs, - kids like me and you, 
Dead end yobs, - just do what you wanna do, 
Dead end yobs, - we don't any notice of you. 
We could be gangsters, we could rob a bank, 
we could join the army, we could drive a tank, 
no hope, no future, when you're down and out, 
when you're at the bottom, nobody hears you shout. 
an authority, keeps knocking on the head, 
from the day you're born, 'til the day you're dead. 
Dead end yobs, - kids like me and you, 
Dead end yobs, - they tell us what to do, 
Middle class people, look down on me and you. 
The school report read, he's a dead end yob, 
might just make it, in a dead end job, 
so I broke all the rules, in and out of school, 
got into trouble, nothing else to do, 
and when they nick us, don't they bleeding' love it, 
sod the system, got to rise above it. 
Dead end yobs, - kids like me and you, 
Dead end yobs, - always at the back of the queue, 
It's us v them, the middle class and the boys in blue. 
 

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58 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

What's a posh accent?  Why would it be a problem?

As a Frenchman I can recognise it but it's hard for me to define it or even imitate it, here is a bit of an explanation :

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/video/2014/sep/22/secrets-posh-accent-video-riot-club-vowels

Let say that people who speak like this often feel superior!

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1 hour ago, MauiPunter said:

What's a posh accent?  Why would it be a problem?

Welcome to the British class system. Many subtle layers, some regional variations, snobbery,  inverse snobbery, aspiration, condescension, inclusion, exclusion, affluence, influence... 

Accent as a signpost.

Cheers, 

               W.

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3 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

He still has a long way to go once it hits the water to be functional.  To each his own but he's invested double the value of the boat and four years of his life ( so far )  for what at the end of the day will be an amateur build with lots of unexpected systems problems to continually sort out.  Or he could have bought something similar off the shelf and tested for less than $100k and been out sailing for the last 5 years.  He completely fabricated a new rudder and there was nothing wrong with the old one.  And that generator. WTF?  Anyway good luck to him. . Haven't seen Eva in quite a long time. Wonder if he has figured this all out, researched  'Denmark weather'  and took a runner?      

I think Coronavirus has more to do with the lack of girlfriend visits then anything else. Pretty sure he had a visit planned that was cancelled.

I hear what you're saying regarding the 100k, its the route I'd choose, but each to their own. I imagine he now makes enough from the channel that he can live while cruising & he couldn't before, heck he might not even had the money for a fully fledged cruiser before.
I watch it sped up to 1.25 and skip forward a lot, but its an interesting project.

Sure he fucks things up, but at least he gets stuck in & does on the whole good work, all part of the learning process.

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33 minutes ago, MiddayGun said:

I think Coronavirus has more to do with the lack of girlfriend visits then anything else. Pretty sure he had a visit planned that was cancelled.

I hear what you're saying regarding the 100k, its the route I'd choose, but each to their own. I imagine he now makes enough from the channel that he can live while cruising & he couldn't before, heck he might not even had the money for a fully fledged cruiser before.
I watch it sped up to 1.25 and skip forward a lot, but its an interesting project.

Sure he fucks things up, but at least he gets stuck in & does on the whole good work, all part of the learning process.

...Ok Mads, what are you doing here, don't you have a boat to fully rebuild? Fourth time is the lucky one! :p

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On 10/28/2020 at 6:58 AM, JRC026 said:

Nice unpretentious couple with that self-deprecating humour the British do so well.  I even like the dog and I'm not a dog guy.  And the boat is way bigger than I would ever want to own, but I subscribed anyway.

One thing is for certain, I am going to sail the West Country one day.  People waffle on how great my home waters of NZ are, Bay of Islands and all that....but for me England and its rivers, both deep and shallow, are where my heart lies.  

One day....

The woman has the style and manner of a child's TV program presenter. Reminds me of a BBC production called Blue Peter.

NZ has some exquisite cruising areas. Dusky Sound and Stewart Island are world class. 

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4 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

What's a posh accent?  Why would it be a problem?

If you have seen the movie 'Snatch' there is a character called 'Brick Top' 
That is not a posh accent 

  

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2 hours ago, leuk said:

...Ok Mads, what are you doing here, don't you have a boat to fully rebuild? Fourth time is the lucky one! :p

That Albin Ballad he has to me is a superior boat all round, if his GF has walked off as some indicate he has a great boat there waiting -- sell that Warrior and live for 5 years+ off the proceeds, and sail the Ballad wherever he may please (post Covid of course).

In fact, I dunno why he didn't just stick with the Ballad in the first instance.  But, then again, he can do whatever the heck he wants and good luck to him.

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7 hours ago, JRC026 said:

That Albin Ballad he has to me is a superior boat all round, if his GF has walked off as some indicate he has a great boat there waiting -- sell that Warrior and live for 5 years+ off the proceeds, and sail the Ballad wherever he may please (post Covid of course).

In fact, I dunno why he didn't just stick with the Ballad in the first instance.  But, then again, he can do whatever the heck he wants and good luck to him.

he suffers from seasickness, does not seem to like sailing all that much but makes good money from superbly made how to videos

his presentations to camera are well thought out and perfectly delivered

everything is immaculately  lit and his regular as clockwork posted films are well structured.

 

 

He is doing so much more than merely making cash on the side by running a camera as he works

---------

here in east anglia......

 

I have spent the past week doing knee and back cracking boat pilates  with a range of tools around  my 25 footer as the heater roars away and the boat swings gently on her mooring.

 

engine consumables and diesel de-bugging, fixing the fuel supply for the taylor heater, removing the old radar, re-routing and replacing the echo-sounder (I found three (three!)echo-sounder senders still epoxied to the hull) - painting inside 13 cupboards and varnishing all the interior woodwork. I have also been removing nests of legacy wires left by the nine previous owners

meanwhile Jill has separated all the berth cushions from their covers and has been on the patio with a hose and a shocking supply of web suggested unguents incl;uding vinegar and baking powder attemping to stomp the stink of 7 years shut up boat, old man, diesel and fried food out of them

she might have done it wearing a bikini (if she was young enough) in the late october east anglian sunshine (if there was any)  - or maybe I should have payed my 25 year old daughter to do it for the camera and eyes of old men

Actually it has been a damp cold october, jill was wearing wellies and a coat and she is 65

my daughter would have told me to " f off dad"

 

 For a few seconds I contemplated making some mads style  videos  about refurbing the fisher 

"anal man inflicts unnecessary perfection on old shit box"

Mads could have turned slapping a coat of screwfix un-patented  commodity  jollop varnish  onto the slightly weathered yet still dangerous off set sliding door on my boat into a seven part series as he removed, re-built and replaced a perfectly okay door.

but I  soon realised that making the films would slow down my express fettling regime and I would miss some sailing among the winter  migrant bird populations of the east coast
 

Another week should see  the whale ready for some cold sailing

D

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, dylan winter said:

my daughter would have told me to " f off dad"

Bummer... I was looking forward to my daughter growing out of her teenage years expecting these bad habits to disappear!

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1 hour ago, dylan winter said:

he suffers from seasickness, does not seem to like sailing all that much but makes good money from superbly made how to videos

his presentations to camera are well thought out and perfectly delivered

everything is immaculately  lit and his regular as clockwork posted films are well structured.

 

 

He is doing so much more than merely making cash on the side by running a camera as he works

---------

here in east anglia......

 

I have spent the past week doing knee and back cracking boat pilates  with a range of tools around  my 25 footer as the heater roars away and the boat swings gently on her mooring.

 

engine consumables and diesel de-bugging, fixing the fuel supply for the taylor heater, removing the old radar, re-routing and replacing the echo-sounder (I found three (three!)echo-sounder senders still epoxied to the hull) - painting inside 13 cupboards and varnishing all the interior woodwork. I have also been removing nests of legacy wires left by the nine previous owners

meanwhile Jill has separated all the berth cushions from their covers and has been on the patio with a hose and a shocking supply of web suggested unguents incl;uding vinegar and baking powder attemping to stomp the stink of 7 years shut up boat, old man, diesel and fried food out of them

she might have done it wearing a bikini (if she was young enough) in the late october east anglian sunshine (if there was any)  - or maybe I should have payed my 25 year old daughter to do it for the camera and eyes of old men

Actually it has been a damp cold october, jill was wearing wellies and a coat and she is 65

my daughter would have told me to " f off dad"

 

 For a few seconds I contemplated making some mads style  videos  about refurbing the fisher 

"anal man inflicts unnecessary perfection on old shit box"

Mads could have turned slapping a coat of screwfix un-patented  commodity  jollop varnish  onto the slightly weathered yet still dangerous off set sliding door on my boat into a seven part series as he removed, re-built and replaced a perfectly okay door.

but I  soon realised that making the films would slow down my express fettling regime and I would miss some sailing among the winter  migrant bird populations of the east coast
 

Another week should see  the whale ready for some cold sailing

D

 

 

 

 

 

It's amazing your boat is around about the same l.o.d as mine, but in reality The Whale is about 5,000 times bigger,

I found some of Mads early videos kind of interesting, but yes, when it became apparent he really is not into sailing, and he is basically building a boat to accommodate a woman he hardly knows - I unsubscribed.
But, as I often say in these matters, who gives a rats arse about what I think.  At the moment I am not sailing either, so I'm as much full of shit as him.

However, you Mr Dylan, are going to be hopefully doing some interesting videos when you really get that Whale singing and sailing.  What are your plans for videos?  Pay per view?  Make a donation?  I dare say your "free" views for new content are over? (and I don't blame you for that either).

 

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5 hours ago, dylan winter said:

he suffers from seasickness, does not seem to like sailing all that much but makes good money from superbly made how to videos

his presentations to camera are well thought out and perfectly delivered

everything is immaculately  lit and his regular as clockwork posted films are well structured.

 

 

He is doing so much more than merely making cash on the side by running a camera as he works

---------

His editing is also excellent with multiple camera angles, consistent image quality, perfect sound, and every episode comes across as well scripted, even though it must be ad-hoc every week. He also did this (at least until recently) while holding down a full-time job. 

If you compare his very first videos the steady advance in professionalism as a videomaker is obvious, so good on im.. 

It's not always obvious unless you have worked with video a bit how technically involved getting all that right really is. I recently saw a video by the millennial falcon couple, and it was fine re content etc. - but they kept switching angles for an interview between different types of cameras and lenses - and you could see: ok, this section is the dslr, this is the phone, this is the GoPro, etc.. Which actually was distracting and disorientating to watch.. though probably casual viewers wouldn't care

tbh his videos have totally turned me off buying anything over 30 ft though

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15 hours ago, JRC026 said:

That Albin Ballad he has to me is a superior boat all round, if his GF has walked off as some indicate he has a great boat there waiting -- sell that Warrior and live for 5 years+ off the proceeds, and sail the Ballad wherever he may please (post Covid of course).

In fact, I dunno why he didn't just stick with the Ballad in the first instance.  But, then again, he can do whatever the heck he wants and good luck to him.

Fellow Albin Ballad fettler here. Mads showed up on the (moribund) Ballad discussion board soon after buying Obelix. Amusingly, his bio stated something like, "I want to go SAILING. Not fix boats, just enough to make it safe to GO SAILING."

He proceeded to gut it to the hull, rebuild the interior, spent a summer mostly motoring around, then bought a larger boat. But interests and priorities change, so I'm not one to judge. Besides, we haven't yet splashed our Ballad like, eight years after it landed in the back yard.:unsure:

It is a very small 30 footer inside. A number of people on the Ballad board bought one, went cruising for a year or two, praised its sailing qualities to the skies, then moved up to a longer, wider boat with more living space below. Triola, TamTam, etc.

 

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6 hours ago, robtoujours said:

tbh his videos have totally turned me off buying anything over 30 ft though

Got to keep in mind he bought a boat unsurveyed - went from outside in and rebuilt the interior before bothering to check the water tanks/osmosis/standing water in the grid-hull. 

Denialism makes every problem worse than it has to be.

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11 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

"anal man inflicts unnecessary perfection on old shit box"

 

I might click that one. 

 

Yeah, I pictured Archer saying "Phrasing!" at that one.

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15 hours ago, dylan winter said:

"anal man inflicts unnecessary perfection on old shit box"

Friends of mine have spent the entire winter refinishing the interior of their boat, which they built in the first place, to showroom condition WRT finish, varnish et al. I look at the end result and shudder. Worse than OCD.

Still, I've just finished building the Mk 3 version of a table for my boat. Each iteration gets smaller & simpler. When I was pondering if the latest one needed just one more coat of finish goop, I thought of my friends, knew they'd say that it did, and instantly decided 'fuck it - it's good enough. Only going to get scratched anyway'.

So in it goes tomorrow and off we go down the Channel for a few days... the Dickinson heater flue install is next now I've got all the bits made.

FKT

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Nothing cures perfectionism with interior finishes faster than the prospect of three kids aboard.

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18 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Friends of mine have spent the entire winter refinishing the interior of their boat, which they built in the first place, to showroom condition WRT finish, varnish et al. I look at the end result and shudder. Worse than OCD.

Still, I've just finished building the Mk 3 version of a table for my boat. Each iteration gets smaller & simpler. When I was pondering if the latest one needed just one more coat of finish goop, I thought of my friends, knew they'd say that it did, and instantly decided 'fuck it - it's good enough. Only going to get scratched anyway'.

So in it goes tomorrow and off we go down the Channel for a few days... the Dickinson heater flue install is next now I've got all the bits made.

FKT

It's much better to put it in the "I'll do that later" pile, don't know how many things I pushed pause on for the same reason and ended up actually finishing down the road but with some changes as the initial idea wasn't quite right.  Our friends on the Mason 43 had us over years ago when our daughter was a baby and their girls were the same.  I was in horror seeing the huge sold teak salon table with a coat of white house paint on it. Many years later it makes oh so much sense.

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This series is not going well for Beneteau build quality.

if I worked for Beneteau, I would be paying these guys not to post videos..

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5 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

This series is not going well for Beneteau build quality.

if I worked for Beneteau, I would be paying these guys not to post videos..

It's only showing what most people knew anyway.

Ask MikeJohns privately about some surveys he's done and how those cases got settled by the boat manufacturer. He can't make public comments for reasons that should be obvious...

FKT

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28 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

This series is not going well for Beneteau build quality.

if I worked for Beneteau, I would be paying these guys not to post videos..

No kidding. At first I was like "ooof those groundings must have been violent" then after a few episodes I was like " are you f'ing kidding me this isn't all post grounding drunken dishonest yards BS" then recently they were knocking bonder off the hull with chisels easily and I was like "holy shit Beneteau is out of control on quality assurance on their bonding" .

No way would I buy a beneteau, there is no way to QA the bonding without destroying the build to destructively test the pan bond. How does beneteau know the insert has stuck?  right...they don't.

this should be very embarrassing for them.

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People love to blame the builder but despite all the complaints it seems to me that if you hit a rock at speed and damage the hull laminate, grid bond, and tear massive cracks in the grid then the engineering and build were done properly. Maybe people feel the whole package should have been designed for that kind of impact, but I'm not seeing a single point of failure like you would with an engineering or build mistake. 

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40 minutes ago, andykane said:

People love to blame the builder but despite all the complaints it seems to me that if you hit a rock at speed and damage the hull laminate, grid bond, and tear massive cracks in the grid then the engineering and build were done properly. Maybe people feel the whole package should have been designed for that kind of impact, but I'm not seeing a single point of failure like you would with an engineering or build mistake. 

Yup. In the Anglo world there’s this insane expectation that boats be able to take hard groundings like every boat should be 5 knot in 20 knot wind slow as a brick west sail. 
 

want a west sail? Go buy a west sail. Buying a modern boat then complaining about how modern hulls are built is just so YouTube. 

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39 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Yup. In the Anglo world there’s this insane expectation that boats be able to take hard groundings like every boat should be 5 knot in 20 knot wind slow as a brick west sail. 
 

want a west sail? Go buy a west sail. Buying a modern boat then complaining about how modern hulls are built is just so YouTube. 

My expectation is that if you're going to design the boat around a structural grid, at least take the trouble to bond the fucking structural grid down. 

I'm a Catalina owner (who owned an Irwin and a West Wight Potter before) so I'm well acquainted with the cost saving design and build measures production boat builders employ.  But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be an expectation of at least a minimum level of build competence.

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I don't know, I spent a week crawling around a Ben 50' there were some definitive red flags.  One of them turned out to be a real issue on the Fiji run but the delivery Capt is pretty unstoppable and delt with it. I don't things have to be cave man old school but some of the corners they cut are pretty questionable.

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Through hulls without flanged seacocks, just ring-nutted with brass (not bronze) ball valves. Yeah, they aren't building that way because it's best practice.

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7 hours ago, olaf hart said:

Well, that woke up the Beneteaunians ...

good word Olaf

as a a sailor of old boats built before they knew how to really cut corners on fibre-glass using clever "structural" grids made mainly of air gaps  I feel quite secure with my long encapsulated keel.

although I will not be arriving anywhere until about two days  after every other boat.

I did clonk rocks a few times with the Centaurs - no harm done - although Centaurs have not been without their keel problems over the years.

The interiors of Benetaus are nice though - in an RV sort of way.

 

I once, rather foolishly, accepted drinks on a Bene in the same marina

 

it was 35 feet or so - scoop stern and all. We started in a very comfortable cockpit and then moved below to the palatial interiuor

She said it was lovely and she would for sure spend much more time sailing with me if we had a nicer boat  - this is probably not true as she sails with me only when the weatherman tells those ashore to stock iup on barbecue brickettes. She hardly ever comes winter sailing with me.....

I occasionally remind  her tht we live in east anglia on an estuary that comes down to about 1m at low tide and I hit the bottom at some stage  almost every time I go sailing. It is all part of the fun.

D

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Diarmuid said:

Through hulls without flanged seacocks, just ring-nutted with brass (not bronze) ball valves. Yeah, they aren't building that way because it's best practice.

Has any production builder in the history of production boats ever used flanged seacocks?

The brass valves are questionable but also common practice on Euro production boats. Seems to be a difference in expectations - over there the valves are a wear item, to be replaced every 10 years and in NA they're expected to last for the life of the boat.

FWIW, my own boat has the original 35 yr old Marelon through hulls, hand glassed keel floors, and a stick built, liner-free interior, so I'm not trying to defend my own choices. I just want to see more realistic, accurate discussion about modern production boats instead of the usual polarized "Westsail 32 vs First 40.7" dichotomy.

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1 hour ago, andykane said:

The brass valves are questionable but also common practice on Euro production boats. Seems to be a difference in expectations - over there the valves are a wear item, to be replaced every 10 years and in NA they're expected to last for the life of the boat.

Anchor rollers are a wear item. Jib sheets are a wear item. Winch pawls are a wear item.

Seacocks keep your boat from sinking.

thru3.jpg

 

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9 hours ago, dylan winter said:

good word Olaf

as a a sailor of old boats built before they knew how to really cut corners on fibre-glass using clever "structural" grids made mainly of air gaps  I feel quite secure with my long encapsulated keel.

although I will not be arriving anywhere until about two days  after every other boat.

I did clonk rocks a few times with the Centaurs - no harm done - although Centaurs have not been without their keel problems over the years.

The interiors of Benetaus are nice though - in an RV sort of way.

 

I once, rather foolishly, accepted drinks on a Bene in the same marina

 

it was 35 feet or so - scoop stern and all. We started in a very comfortable cockpit and then moved below to the palatial interiuor

She said it was lovely and she would for sure spend much more time sailing with me if we had a nicer boat  - this is probably not true as she sails with me only when the weatherman tells those ashore to stock iup on barbecue brickettes. She hardly ever comes winter sailing with me.....

I occasionally remind  her tht we live in east anglia on an estuary that comes down to about 1m at low tide and I hit the bottom at some stage  almost every time I go sailing. It is all part of the fun.

D

 

 

 

 

There's hitting the bottom and nudging the East coast silt.  We did a Burnham week with a Scottish chap who thought 80m was shallow and everything you might hit was a rock.  As you spend half of Burnham week dragging your keel through the shit he had a very stressful week.

Just be careful of the hard sand ones.

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15 minutes ago, European Bloke said:

There's hitting the bottom and nudging the East coast silt.  We did a Burnham week with a Scottish chap who thought 80m was shallow and everything you might hit was a rock.  As you spend half of Burnham week dragging your keel through the shit he had a very stressful week.

Just be careful of the hard sand ones.

Tacking on the 10m contour is pretty common, though sometimes that's alarmingly close to the shore... can seem like pretty much anything that isn't marked as an anchorage is rocky... there also seems to be an assumption that the keel will first... that's only valid if the shoreline shelves more gently than the angle between the stem and the tip...!

 Cheers, 

                 W.

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5 hours ago, andykane said:

Has any production builder in the history of production boats ever used flanged seacocks?

The brass valves are questionable but also common practice on Euro production boats. Seems to be a difference in expectations - over there the valves are a wear item, to be replaced every 10 years and in NA they're expected to last for the life of the boat.

FWIW, my own boat has the original 35 yr old Marelon through hulls, hand glassed keel floors, and a stick built, liner-free interior, so I'm not trying to defend my own choices. I just want to see more realistic, accurate discussion about modern production boats instead of the usual polarized "Westsail 32 vs First 40.7" dichotomy.

Have you actually watched all the videos?

The seacocks are nothing compared to the hull and liner construction, like peeling off a chunk of the outer skin because the keel sealant wasnt completely removed

Not to mention separation of the inner hull and liner, and lots of soggy balsa core

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5 hours ago, andykane said:

Has any production builder in the history of production boats ever used flanged seacocks?

The brass valves are questionable but also common practice on Euro production boats. Seems to be a difference in expectations - over there the valves are a wear item, to be replaced every 10 years and in NA they're expected to last for the life of the boat.

FWIW, my own boat has the original 35 yr old Marelon through hulls, hand glassed keel floors, and a stick built, liner-free interior, so I'm not trying to defend my own choices. I just want to see more realistic, accurate discussion about modern production boats instead of the usual polarized "Westsail 32 vs First 40.7" dichotomy.

Yep, both my C&C's came with flanged seacocks. The 29 had Marelon and the 35 has bronze.

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5 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Yep, both my C&C's came with flanged seacocks. The 29 had Marelon and the 35 has bronze.

What's a "flanged" seacock?   Sorry of my lack of knowledge on that. I should know better.

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Is the triangular base the "flange"?

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13 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

Is the triangular base the "flange"?

Yes. Without the flange it just screws into the through-hull and relies entirely on that for integrity.

perko-sea-cock-straight-inline-valve.jpg

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Gotcha!  Thanks!

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1 hour ago, MauiPunter said:

What's a "flanged" seacock?   Sorry of my lack of knowledge on that. I should know better.

If it can make you feel better, I had to google it as I've never seen one!

French boats have (or had ?) to carry a set of these :

47428_6pinoches.jpg

Nevertheless I've never heard a story of somebody sinking due to a bad seacock!

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This is a customer's boat.  About 40 years old.  Not sure if these through hulls are original, or installed later.

Fittings broke with light foot pressure (boat was on the hard ).

7kXDHeK.jpg

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2 hours ago, Panoramix said:

If it can make you feel better, I had to google it as I've never seen one!

French boats have (or had ?) to carry a set of these :

47428_6pinoches.jpg

Nevertheless I've never heard a story of somebody sinking due to a bad seacock!

Not French, but I keep an appropriately sized softwood plug tied to each and every thru-hull on the boat. Just in case.

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29 minutes ago, IStream said:

Not French, but I keep an appropriately sized softwood plug tied to each and every thru-hull on the boat. Just in case.

I'm not French either, but I tie those to the passengers. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

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3 hours ago, IStream said:

Not French, but I keep an appropriately sized softwood plug tied to each and every thru-hull on the boat. Just in case.

That is probably wise as I suspect that most French boats which carry these purely for compliance reasons would struggle to find them instantly in an emergency. But then on a smallish boat, you can just plug the hole with your hand while somebody else finds the proper plug....

As an ex bowman I am kind of trained for the hand on the through hull trick.... after an argument between trimmers and the helm on lack of speed, they can easily conclude jointly  that the speedometre is fouled and .3 knot pessimistic, the pit who tends to be the newest onboard then refuses to remove the sensor by fear of sinking the boat and Mr bowman ends up doing it.... then announces "it is clean there must be some shear in the wind or somet weird coast effect" and let the tactician decide if we are on the good side and ask for a sail retrim, the jib trimmer start moving around the jib cars while swearing at bl**dy dodgy wind (ok the French version if translated word to word is more like "wind of a whore") while the main trimmer play with the traveller to compensate and both trimmers start harassing the helm with "Can you feel the boat better now ?" or "Wind is crappy we need to foot off, there is nothing I can do" kind of remarks. Assuming that we were lucky enough to be on the good side of the fleet and a 30º shift propel us effortlessly toward the front, everybody then boast afterward at the bar how it was easy to anticipate the shift and that we were there because we had seen it coming thanks to the wind shear we were even twisting the sails appropriately before everybody, we even started feeling some shear on the previous downwind as the kite felt weird so went straight to the right side upwind, anyway you don't want to trust too much the weather forecast, and xxx is a figaro sailor he went from front of the fleet to the middle, it is hard to understand how he can do beginner mistakes with all the time he spends on the water. On the other hand if taken on the wrong side, tactician will mumble that he was playing the current, the speedometer was dodgy and the trimmers were asymmetric in their tuning so he couldn't see it coming while the rest of the crew will claim that we "had good speed", at upwind mark we even got ahead of x who's well trained thank to a swift gybe which let us "come out with good speed"  but the "unpredictable shift of a whore" sent us to the back of the fleet on the next leg.....

OK, previous paragraph may contain trace of exaggeration and several events concatenated in one! But isn't SA a bit like a virtual bar ?

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On 10/31/2020 at 8:18 AM, IStream said:

Nothing cures perfectionism with interior finishes faster than the prospect of three kids aboard.

Amen to that.  Rebuilt my table and had it just beautiful.  WTF was I thinking??!?  My 15 year old promptly put a very hot pan on the table.  At least he tried to do the right thing and used a pad under it, wasn't enough.  Heat and varnish....

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On 10/26/2020 at 7:22 PM, savoir said:

 

Erik has lifted his game with much better photographic work these days.  I do kind of miss the cold spaghetti dinners which is said to be an ancient viking tradition.  He has replaced them with cold meatballs . . . . . . . . . . . . straight from the can of course.  No tits.

The last 3 are the best videos out there. Tremendous drone work and beautiful places. People can ding the guy all they want but he did a good job on that boat and sails and films with passion. He has built a great following and merch business without bimbos by never giving up.

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10 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

Gotcha!  Thanks!

Flanged seacocks are now the ABYC standard.  Maine Sail's website has detailed instructions on how to install them properly.

The idea is that they can withstand side loading or side impacts from improperly stored gear better than the old style. The general vibe I get from most sailors is that you don't need to panic and rip out all of your existing through hulls, but when one of your seacocks or through hulls is failing, that's a good time to do the upgrade if you're able.

Tartans are considered to be well built boats and I have none of these. I'm also intelligent not to store anything heavy in any compartment where my seacocks are.

What I do not like about the flanged style is that you have to drill 3 more holes in your hull and bed the screws. To me, this is just 3 more potential weepers or leaks once the bedding wears out. It's a compromise.

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12 minutes ago, Ajax said:

...........What I do not like about the flanged style is that you have to drill 3 more holes in your hull and bed the screws. To me, this is just 3 more potential weepers or leaks once the bedding wears out. It's a compromise.

At the yard where I work, our glass man uses a technique that does not require drilling holes in the hull for the mounting bolts:

He makes up a fiberglass backing plate of at least 1/2" thick and drills holes in it for the flange bolts.  After abrading the inside skin of the hull, bonds the backing plate with Dura Glass with the bolts heads permanently buried between the hull and backing plate.

Yes, this is not quite as strong as through (the hull) bolting, but it is vastly stronger than non flanged fittings.

Yes, if the bolts need replacement, the whole mess will need to be chiseled away.

Steve

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40 minutes ago, Panope said:

At the yard where I work, our glass man uses a technique that does not require drilling holes in the hull for the mounting bolts:

He makes up a fiberglass backing plate of at least 1/2" thick and drills holes in it for the flange bolts.  After abrading the inside skin of the hull, bonds the backing plate with Dura Glass with the bolts heads permanently buried between the hull and backing plate.

Yes, this is not quite as strong as through (the hull) bolting, but it is vastly stronger than non flanged fittings.

Yes, if the bolts need replacement, the whole mess will need to be chiseled away.

Steve

That's a good compromise.  I'd think replacing the bolts would be a once-in-a-lifetime repair under normal wear and tear circumstances.

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On 10/30/2020 at 6:14 AM, Kris Cringle said:

"anal man inflicts unnecessary perfection on old shit box"

 

I might click that one. 

 

I found that rather disturbing, honestly 

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10 hours ago, Ishmael said:
11 hours ago, IStream said:

Not French, but I keep an appropriately sized softwood plug tied to each and every thru-hull on the boat. Just in case.

I'm not French either, but I tie those to the passengers. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

You are. I'd suggest you insert them into the passengers rather than tie them on. There are two or three suitable orifices for your convenience.

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5 hours ago, Ajax said:

Flanged seacocks are now the ABYC standard.  Maine Sail's website has detailed instructions on how to install them properly.

The idea is that they can withstand side loading or side impacts from improperly stored gear better than the old style. The general vibe I get from most sailors is that you don't need to panic and rip out all of your existing through hulls, but when one of your seacocks or through hulls is failing, that's a good time to do the upgrade if you're able.

Tartans are considered to be well built boats and I have none of these. I'm also intelligent not to store anything heavy in any compartment where my seacocks are.

What I do not like about the flanged style is that you have to drill 3 more holes in your hull and bed the screws. To me, this is just 3 more potential weepers or leaks once the bedding wears out. It's a compromise.

I replaced my original bronze circa 1981 thru hulls about 8 years ago. So roughly 30 years of six month freshwater seasons. Had I known what the insides looked like(one of them literally busted in half while being removed) I would’ve done it way sooner.

There is no guarantee that each thru-hull will age at the same rate, but on a balance of probabilities, it makes sense to replace all of them at the same time, imho.

The actual motivating factor to switch up the thru hulls was to see if I could get ahead of the galvanic pitting that was starting to occur underneath the protective epoxy barrier coats on the aluminum sail drive. Going to all plastic Marelon flanged thru hulls eliminates another dissimilar metal below the waterline...and at the very least, brings me up to date w current standards.

So far so good and, unscientifically speaking of course, I think the seasonal pitting rate has been reduced quite a bit.

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24 minutes ago, fufkin said:

I replaced my original bronze circa 1981 thru hulls about 8 years ago. So roughly 30 years of six month freshwater seasons. Had I known what the insides looked like(one of them literally busted in half while being removed) I would’ve done it way sooner.

There is no guarantee that each thru-hull will age at the same rate, but on a balance of probabilities, it makes sense to replace all of them at the same time, imho.

The actual motivating factor to switch up the thru hulls was to see if I could get ahead of the galvanic pitting that was starting to occur underneath the protective epoxy barrier coats on the aluminum sail drive. Going to all plastic Marelon flanged thru hulls eliminates another dissimilar metal below the waterline...and at the very least, brings me up to date w current standards.

So far so good and, unscientifically speaking of course, I think the seasonal pitting rate has been reduced quite a bit.

I love the idea of plastic through-hulls but there are critical design flaws with the handle in some of the versions that Marelon sells. That scared me away.

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22 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Yep, both my C&C's came with flanged seacocks. The 29 had Marelon and the 35 has bronze.

I stand corrected. Maybe we should stop exporting softwood lumber and start exporting yacht construction standards.

 

22 hours ago, olaf hart said:

Have you actually watched all the videos?

The seacocks are nothing compared to the hull and liner construction, like peeling off a chunk of the outer skin because the keel sealant wasnt completely removed

Not to mention separation of the inner hull and liner, and lots of soggy balsa core

I'll admit that even long hours of holding a sleeping newborn haven't given me the time nor patience to watch every minute, but the issue removing the keel seemed to be related to the bilge sump (which sticks down into the keel). Lots of bonding surface there, so I'm not too surprised it was able to do some damage when they tore it off. I didn't see any balsa - as far as I can tell these are solid glass hulls. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I love the idea of plastic through-hulls but there are critical design flaws with the handle in some of the versions that Marelon sells. That scared me away.

I thought the new models had more robust handles - admittedly the old ones could be a bit weak if the valve wasn't used in a long time and got stuck.

I've got my eyes on Tru Design for when the time comes to replace mine. Same kind of material as the Forespan Marelon ones, and you can get a clever collar so they meet the ABYC 500lb test without the through bolted flange.

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6 minutes ago, andykane said:

I thought the new models had more robust handles - admittedly the old ones could be a bit weak if the valve wasn't used in a long time and got stuck.

I've got my eyes on Tru Design for when the time comes to replace mine. Same kind of material as the Forespan Marelon ones, and you can get a clever collar so they meet the ABYC 500lb test without the through bolted flange.

I'd forgotten about Tru Design. I'll have to revisit their website.

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