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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Bob Perry

The Four Carbon Cutters project

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Just trying to help.

I will pass your comments along Longy but I think these decisions are best left to our team. Not sure how well it would go over if I said, "But Longy on SA told me it would work!" Even though I respect your opinion.

As I have said, over and over, this is the prototype.

And - this is an old school gentleman's yacht - the bottle opener belongs in the cockpit. The bow does not get to hang about out on the sprit guzzling beer.

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You guys crack me up, I post progress photos for a year on a unique four boat custom project and no one says a word. Until one worker is spotted not wearing a mask. Amazing.

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You guys crack me up, I post progress photos for a year on a unique four boat custom project and no one says a word. Until one worker is spotted not wearing a mask. Amazing.

Bob,

 

I'm sure that most of us watching this thread are waiting to see the finished product. We are also waiting for the rest of the story. Which we may or may not ever get. But the thought that someone would commission four identical boats, all for himself, is pretty tantalizing. I understand the right he has to his privacy, but for us to see the boats in progress and not know why or where they are going to be used is quite the tease.

 

I agree that the photos are interesting. I also think that a finished boat will be even more interesting. Then we can really start second guessing all his decisions :).

 

Bruce

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Bruce:

I think there will have to be an understanding that some things about the project will remain with the client. Maybe just keen observation of the launches will answer some of the questions. Anacortes is a small town. I am grateful that my client allows me to post progress photos here. Not sure he likes it but he never complains.

 

" Second guessing all his decisions"? I can't even do that. But like you I try.

 

Maybe I should start a "crew list" so we are ready for the day we have four boats sailing.

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Thanks Bob. I enjoy watching the development, more so than just looking at the final product. Kind of like watching kids grow up. Great fun, but then they are adults, or the build is finished.

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VARAN:

Exactly. When the fourth boat sails over the horizon I'm going to be lost for a while. " Come back Shane!"

But I have a 5th CF boat to start at the yard in January, a 44'er more contemporary kinda and I am meeting a new client at the yard on Wednesday to discuss another all CF boat, very traditional. It is my hope that I can keep feeding projects to the Betts yard until I drop. For me it is more than making a living. It is pure entertainment while being educated.

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Bruce:

I think there will have to be an understanding that some things about the project will remain with the client. Maybe just keen observation of the launches will answer some of the questions. Anacortes is a small town. I am grateful that my client allows me to post progress photos here. Not sure he likes it but he never complains.

 

" Second guessing all his decisions"? I can't even do that. But like you I try.

 

Maybe I should start a "crew list" so we are ready for the day we have four boats sailing.

 

I think I was the first volunteer for delivery crew, at least in print.

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Bob,

 

This is SA. I don't remember any thread that didn't have second guessing. That's why the smiley face.

 

Certainly understand the privacy consideration. Thank him for sharing what he does allow.

 

Found out at Foulweather Bluff that I'm aged out of the TP 52s, so please add me to the long list of willing crew when the boats are sailing as a fleet.

 

Bruce

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Varan:

Yes, you can and some ginger ale for me please. I'm on the wagon.

 

Oh, right, it's Saturday. I send my liver out for a deep cleansing on Saturdays. Comes back smelling like Tea Tree Oil or something like that.

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Yard trip yesterday.

Working out ground tackle systems. This was done with a timber prototype but now we are down the rch's.

 

050_zps32rmwvtx.jpg

 

 

With a ground tackle set up like that, I would never again cross my fingers hoping for an open state park mooring.

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Bob: Just a suggestion on final chain locker setup, but you know this, of course.

 

A really stout pad-eye through bolted to the chain locker bulkhead, right up at the top, to which you attach the dead end of the chain with a two-foot nylon lashing. When you need to ditch the whole chain, cut the lashing. Don't ask me why I know this one.

 

Cheers, J

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Wopper

Thanks for that tip and I will pass that along to the yard on Tuesday. That's a new one on me but it sounds smart. We have cleats in the chain lkr. but not at the top AFAIK.

 

They turn hull No. 2 over on Tuesday and I want to watch. Hate to miss any of the fun.

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Wopper

Thanks for that tip and I will pass that along to the yard on Tuesday. That's a new one on me but it sounds smart. We have cleats in the chain lkr. but not at the top AFAIK.

 

They turn hull No. 2 over on Tuesday and I want to watch. Hate to miss any of the fun.

 

Bob: If you're going to do this, ensure that the nylon strop is long enough so it comes right up through the deck and round the gypsy. You don't want to be fooling around in the chain locker at times like this.

 

Also, for offshore passages, make up a nice wooden plug with a rubber gasket to stuff in the hawse hole. Apply a big screw eye on the bottom of it, and you lash the anchor to the bow, unshackle the anchor chain from the anchor, re-connect the shackle to the eye on the plug, drop it down the hole, and hey, ho, the weight of the chain holds the plug fast.

 

Again, don't ask how I came by this! Experience, I suspect.

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A cleverer idea I wont take credit for. Instead of nylon use a stout piece of bright colored polypropylene rope. When you go back and try to find the chain on the bottom, the rope floats vertical and is easier for divers to spot.

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Thanks Zonks. Sounds smart.

 

Tomorrow they are scheduled to turn over hull No. 2. This hull has a lot more of the internal structure already installed compared to No. 1 at turnover. I'll go up tomorrow, weather permitting, and take some pics of the roll over.

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Viking:

Ruby loves the boatyard. Initially she was a bit concerned climbing the scaffolding but now she wants to go up on the scaffolding the moment she gets into that shop. I think she likes the challenge of being up in the air.

040_zpshapoxqy2.jpg

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Signed the deal today for a new 44'er at the Betts yard in Anacortes.

Cutters are coming along nicely. Looking for an April launch of No. 1. No. 2 is moving quickly benefiting from what was learned on No. 1. Parts are now being built for No's 3 and 4.

 

010_zpsgqwriiqy.jpg

023_zpsdsyj6a78.jpg

009_zpskjits628.jpg

017_zps3vh3oqdz.jpg

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There seems be a real synergy between you and Betts, Bob. Sometimes you see boats where the compliments are really due to the design, sometimes you see boats where the compliments are really for the build. It's really neat and special to see a boat where both design and build are top notch. You guys really seem to make beautiful music together. 

Personally, this is my favorite project of yours, and I think it is one great example of why custom boats can be so worthwhile and exciting. 

Thank you for sharing, and thanks to your client as well! 

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vjm:

Thanks for the kind words.

Maybe part of the success, to date anyway, has to do with mutual respect and common goals. I know when to defer to Jim and he knows when to listen to me. Jim also has a firm way with the client. Client and I butted heads over a detail I thought was crucial to the look of the boat. I whined to Jim and said I was going to write a firm letter to the client. Jim said don't bother. He said he agreed with me and would just do the detail the way I wanted it without further discussion. Client has since acquiesced. 

Another element making this project different is that it's taking place a beautiful one hour's drive through farm and dairy country away from my shack. I go up every Wednesday. Sometimes I have a suggestion or two. Sometimes I just walk around and ask questions. I have learned much and Jim's crew is always happy to explain to me what they are doing. I have never had such a close connection to a build before.

I am looking forward to the next Betts/Perry project. It is still in its formative stage. I meet with the client 7am tomorrow to go over changes.

KB%20PB%20X%206-13-16_zps1jpoqpnu.jpg

 

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I know you are pretty plain spoken, but I wonder if your clients are reading these threads.

I also wonder if Mrs. Nick Carraway has her own name? My wife would kill me if she was addressed this way in any context, but then this is the moneyed-class you are dealing with, so who knows.

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Dragon:

Me? Outspoken? You could be right.

Some of my clients read these posts. Some clients have come to me through SA/CA.  I chose Mr. and Mrs. Nick Carraway rather than use the client's real name. I thought the name fit the mood of the boat.

The client has since identified himself here on CA. I know the wife well. I can't imagine she even cares. I meet with the client 7am tomorrow. I ask.

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22 hours ago, TheDragon said:

I know you are pretty plain spoken, but I wonder if your clients are reading these threads.

I also wonder if Mrs. Nick Carraway has her own name? My wife would kill me if she was addressed this way in any context, but then this is the moneyed-class you are dealing with, so who knows.

For the record SWMBO loves the "Nick Carraway" reference. She now wants me to call her "Daisy"!

But we have only been together for 50 years so who know what she will want in the future.

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9 hours ago, kimbottles said:

For the record SWMBO loves the "Nick Carraway" reference. She now wants me to call her "Daisy"!

But we have only been together for 50 years so who know what she will want in the future.

well said, old sport.

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2 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Happy 4th of July.

rockets_zpshdxoynjw.jpg

Do I want to see your propane installation? :o:D

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Some smart ass suggested we were painting the cutter no. "Island Packet beige". I'm happy to say that yesterday Javier and Jesus painted the boat and it is Matterhorn white and beautifully done.

005_zpswnt6fvqh.jpg

Most of my one hour drive to the boatyard is like this. Brutal ! Look closely and you can see Mt. Baker in the distance.

014_zpsftaglti8.jpg

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You know,  for best "Sleeper" capabilities,  painting it to be quickly dismissed as an IP WOULD be a pretty good disguise though - "Nothing to see here...." 

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Is that slightly towards the grey end of the spectrum like it looks in the pics?

I always think that looks better than the really bright, pure whites.

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I still have great colour vision - I just wish I could still read stuff smaller than the big E. :D

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My clients may ask me for my opinion on colors Jon. But they don't listen. I don't worry about it. I think all boats should be white, black or dark blue.

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23 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Happy 4th of July.

rockets_zpshdxoynjw.jpg

I always thought of you as a Martin kind of guy, or maybe an old steel national. Cheers! Happy 4th.

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IMHO, white hull, grey deck. Great looking boat. Amazing actually, when you realize what's under the paint. 

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Varan:

Thanks for the kind words. The carbon cutters are unique in that they are not light displ boats. Using carbon allowed me to get a really high B/D in an effort to produce a really powerful boat. Typical BCC's can be a bit tender initially.

I have two Martins, an Dreadnaught OO-28 with light bracing and a smaller M-28. I also have a custom built "Puffy" cutaway made by Mark Connoly in Olympia, WA. It has a Port Orford cedar top. Mark used the Port Orford because he thought I'd like an ax built with a boat building wood. I'm not wild about the sound. Mark volunteered to change to top to Spruce but I like the novelty of the Port Orford. I  never play it. I have a Guild D-50 that I bought new in 1965 and that is an amazing guitar. Its the ax my friends usually pick up when they come over. But I always wanted a JS200 and that one was a gift from a friend at a time when I needed some cheering up. I have bonded with it. I love the GIbson neck and just the huge history of the model.

I have eclectic taste in guitars.

PRS%20small_zpsgeuuaxkm.jpg

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It took two coats of paint to get it to Jim Bett's standard but it's looking good now. I thought it looked fine after the first coat.

007014

 

 

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With four boats I'd be inclined to do four paint schemes.

Lots of wonderful colours out there.

One grey, one black, one white and one green - just for example.:D

And yes I know, when I order my four I can do it that way.

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3 hours ago, savoir said:

Saves on grabbing the wrong one too. Imagine if they are all the same color at the same dock. Could get ugly.

Well, seeing as the point of these boat is to specifically NOT be at the same dock and be as identical in kit as possible (am I right on that, Robert?) I don't think confusing boats will be an issue. When the shit hits the fan and the owner tells his pilot it's "Code Gray," he will be whisked away to the location of the cutter with the gray shear color.

 

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No.1 leaves paint booth w/ s.s. rub rail cap installed. Jim took this pic with his phone.

I'm going back to the yard today (doctor's orders) so I'll see if I can get more photos.

Paint

 

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1 hour ago, Connor.kainalu said:

Read thread the PBB article and the "client" seems pretty paranoid 

So he likes security.

The article was pretty superficial.  There are some cool features.

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Raker: Thanks.  I have no idea. We are building for boats:

Hull no. 1 is being finished now. Today they were getting ready to put the teak cap rail on.

Hull no. 2 has all the internal structure in it and now all primer painted. Deck is ready to go on after several dry fits.

Hull no. 3 is still upside down with all the internal structure finished and is now ready for the bulkheads. Jim likes to do this while the boat is upside down so the workers can stand on a flat shop floor rather than a sloped bilge.

I know they have a man hours per boat break down but I seldom ask about it. We are trying to get no. 1 in the water in a month..

014

 

006

 

011

 

018

 

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JacK:

I agree. We are surrounded by a sea of sameness in the world of production boats today. I find them almost impossible to tell apart anymore. Now that I am winding down my output I hope to concentrate on boats that are the antithesis of the Euro production model. The four carbon cutters are a pretty good start. I'm currently working on a 50' version.

Here is an alternative layout to the 42'er.

I call it "the boat nobody would want " It has none of the features that people think are required today. I like it. It's straight out of 1962. The 52'er I am currently working on is along these lines but a more up to date underbody.

Lucky 2

 

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2 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

JacK:

I agree. We are surrounded by a sea of sameness in the world of production boats today. I find them almost impossible to tell apart anymore. Now that I am winding down my output I hope to concentrate on boats that are the antithesis of the Euro production model. The four carbon cutters are a pretty good start. I'm currently working on a 50' version.

Here is an alternative layout to the 42'er.

I call it "the boat nobody would want " It has none of the features that people think are required today. I like it. It's straight out of 1962. The 52'er I am currently working on is along these lines but a more up to date underbody.

Lucky 2

 

Bob

I like this. I am a fan of the smallish cabin and clear decks fwd. Open area for sailhandling is a high priority for me. Nice PNW CRUISING design.

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Great White:

Glad you understood my intention.

 

Jack:

Yep, I'm hoping it catches on. I don't think you can ever have too much on a cruising boat.

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Spoonie:

I am talking to a Chinese group now about a bigger version of the FT. Not sure where it will go. They are waiting for me "fee structure". If I wanted a fast boat I'd go to Mark Mills. When I do a new design I like to think that I can do the type better than anyone else, work in my comfort zone. I'd have to think about it.

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Bob,

    I watched a video link from the Multihull thread posted by the sponsor there HH CATAMARNS and am pretty sure I saw your FT's in build on their very large production lines. I think you should go for a 12 meter version or so. The Aussie market would eat them up!

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48 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

Spoonie:

I am talking to a Chinese group now about a bigger version of the FT. Not sure where it will go. They are waiting for me "fee structure". If I wanted a fast boat I'd go to Mark Mills. When I do a new design I like to think that I can do the type better than anyone else, work in my comfort zone. I'd have to think about it.

I cane helpe oute if you wantte.      :)

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Ime am goode withe autocadde, worde, spredsheettes, and teamworkes ist my middelle name!  Olde cabinette mackere tolde me I wase beste sandere her evere hade!

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2 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Spoonie:

I am talking to a Chinese group now about a bigger version of the FT. Not sure where it will go. They are waiting for me "fee structure". If I wanted a fast boat I'd go to Mark Mills. When I do a new design I like to think that I can do the type better than anyone else, work in my comfort zone. I'd have to think about it.

IIRC I saw some preliminary drawings for a larger FT posted somewhere. Maybe on the FT website. If that was the case, it was a good looking boat.

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3 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

They are talking about a 43'er.

Can you send me a link to that video Rasper please?

Bob,

     Here is the link. I ran it up to where I thought I saw the FT's. 

 

    You can see one from the stern on the right and then there is what looks like a smaller one (FT 7.5?) on the left at the end of that camera move. I think there is another one in the next clip. They have lots of small sail and powerboats under construction besides the big cats. 

    Am I imagining that these are Flying Tigers?

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