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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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Bob Perry

The Four Carbon Cutters project

535 posts in this topic

That is so nice.  I'm glad there are four of them; they will help return the balance of sailboat aesthetics that have been out of kilter ever since the idiot Russian giant tennis shoe was revealed.

I'm looking forward to seeing the boat sailing.

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Thanks Shu. I have decided that I'll just stick with American classic styling. There is not a Euro bone in my body.

Not too much longer. Sails fit.

saiils

 

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24 minutes ago, v92 said:

Clew looks low on the third reef.  Neat project.

I think this may be designed.  Once the third reef is in there's a large stack of cars at the mast, which means the third reef tack is about a foot higher than you'd otherwise like.  Make the reef clew lower, so it can be ground close to the boom, and it all sorts itself out.  Also you don't need a big vang excursion while reefing.

My $0.02

Edit Second reef is similar, but about half the difference.

Edit: Good sail design and rigging planning, IMHO

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1 hour ago, P_Wop said:

I think this may be designed.  Once the third reef is in there's a large stack of cars at the mast, which means the third reef tack is about a foot higher than you'd otherwise like.  Make the reef clew lower, so it can be ground close to the boom, and it all sorts itself out.  Also you don't need a big vang excursion while reefing.

My $0.02

Edit Second reef is similar, but about half the difference.

Edit: Good sail design and rigging planning, IMHO

Stack height is all the more reason to raise the clew patches to keep the boom out of the cockpit

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You guys are way over me on this. I just draw triangles. I will know it when it doesn't work. But I think that , given the care and MONEY that went into these sails, I can't imagine a rookie error will have been made.

 

Life is full of surprises.

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1 hour ago, v92 said:

Stack height is all the more reason to raise the clew patches to keep the boom out of the cockpit

I'm guessing the folks who did those sails had a pretty good reason for doing that. This isn't their first rodeo. It looks to me like it will keep the boom level to slightly raised when the reef is in.

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Bob, if you need any new bits replaced, make sure they're made in America.  I would wan't any European bits influencing your work.  

4 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Thanks Shu. I have decided that I'll just stick with American classic styling. There is not a Euro bone in my body.

Not too much longer. Sails fit.

 

saiils

 

That is so nice.  I'm glad there are four of them; they will help return the balance of sailboat aesthetics that have been out of kilter ever since the idiot Russian giant tennis shoe was revealed.

I'm looking forward to seeing the boat sailing.

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Jim Betts on the tiler for the first sail of carbon cutter no. 1. We had between 3 knots and 10 knots of breeze but the boat performed beautifully. We used main, low clewed yankee and staysail. The sails out of the Seattle North loft we the best I have ever seen on one of my boats. It's no TP52 but as a cruising boat tonight, I could not be more pleased.

033

 

Go 1

 

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23 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Ish:

I'm hoping like you are hoping. It's all that crazy sailor talk.

 

the wite verssione....     :)

 

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14 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Go 1

 

Bob don't do ugly - Exhibit A 
:)

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Bob don't do nav gear layout either. This was all done by Anthony, the yard's elec whizz. Two of everything.

Here's a shot of the often misunderstood sea chest. We have no through hull fittings.

019

 

025

 

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Lioness:

I didn't look. Don't think we ever saw 10 knots TWS. Maybe 8 knots TWS. I was looking at boat speed. Next time. It's not a TP52 but I was very happy with how close wided it was for a full keel cutter. It's designed as an offshore boat so I doubt offshore the boat will be ever jammed up on the wind. Probably sail it closer to AWA 34 des and let it ramble along. I think I nailed the lead angles for the jib and staysail. They looked very happy together. We did not try the outboard reaching leads. I can't say enough about the sails.

035

 

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As I sail a full keel, wide shroud rig,  with old school spars and hull, I was curious on the improvement of ~ 60 yrs in design and construction. 

These are from my US Sailing performance package: Wind at masthead ~50 Feet. 

True Wind Speed   UPWIND targets   True Wind Angle
Boat Speed App Wind Speed App Wind Angle
(kts) (kts) (kts) (deg) (deg)
6.2 4.13 9.5 29.3 48.3
8.3 4.95 12.3 28.9 45.8
10.4 5.53 14.8 29.1 44.8
12.5 5.94 17.1 28.5 43.1
16.6 6.20 21.5 27.1 39.1
20.8 6.29 25.6 27.0 37.3
24.9 6.30 29.6 27.6 36.9

 

And VMG should be 3.92 with 11.8 degree heel 

 

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The boat and surroundings are beautiful. Not sure if it was this thread but I was glad to see that Boomer is in the mix and whatever issues real, imagined, or misunderstood were worked out (gathered that politics were involved).  I take this 'indivisible' shit seriously, and while friends may have different views...well, as I told my wife, you gotta look past that shit or we wouldn't have any friends at all.

But the boat is the thing, and my favorite parts of the build have been the woodworking shots, the brushed stainless hardware, and the sea chest. 

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.Lioness:

based on what I saw yesterday we should be at least a knot faster upwind in 10 knots. In 6 to 8 knots we were getting  6 knots and better boat speed with a 30 deg AWA. Next time we go out I'll take some notes. Yesterday was more about making sure everything worked. Our masthead s 67' above DWL. Our DWL is 38.5'.

 

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Owen:

Thanks for your concern but Boomer and I are just fine. Probably my misunderstanding of the situation. I owe Boomer a lot. He has had the patience to help me improve my photography. He's also a ball to sail with.

The stainless is sand blasted, not brushed.

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5 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Bob don't do nav gear layout either. This was all done by Anthony, the yard's elec whizz. Two of everything.

Here's a shot of the often misunderstood sea chest. We have no through hull fittings.

019

 

025

 

Are you missing the sea chest shot? 

EDIT: I get it.  I thought that was looking aft. Maybe it is.  Maybe I don't get it 

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5 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

We have no through hull fittings.

 

Seriously? Zero through hulls? OK, I'll take boat #5. Where do I send the check?

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Twister:

you can use the address on the web site.

 

Spoonie:

yes, you are correct. You do not get it, That is looking aft. The sea chest is under the companionway ladder. What did yo think that things was? Dr. Pepper fountain?

025

 

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Given this project, I was kind of thinking it was a Château Cheval Blanc dispenser if it wasn't the sea chest.

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Soaker:

 So long as we are dreaming let's go Romanee-Conti. I like the Burgundies.

 

Shark:

The original plan was to build a case around the sea chest but I like seeing it there naked. I'm a fan of visible well done structure, Why hide it?

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7 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Lioness:

I didn't look. Don't think we ever saw 10 knots TWS. Maybe 8 knots TWS. I was looking at boat speed. Next time. It's not a TP52 but I was very happy with how close wided it was for a full keel cutter. It's designed as an offshore boat so I doubt offshore the boat will be ever jammed up on the wind. Probably sail it closer to AWA 34 des and let it ramble along. I think I nailed the lead angles for the jib and staysail. They looked very happy together. We did not try the outboard reaching leads. I can't say enough about the sails.

035

 

I am a fun of the matte stainless. How do you like it?

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Yep - they can always case it up later if so desired. Glad to hear its performance is as-hoped

 

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1 hour ago, Bob Perry said:

Twister:

you can use the address on the web site.

 

Spoonie:

yes, you are correct. You do not get it, That is looking aft. The sea chest is under the companionway ladder. What did yo think that things was? Dr. Pepper fountain?

025

 

Well you did say it was misunderstood. I had it in my head the sea chest was at the mast step.  Now just thinking about it I realise that was probably silly 

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13 minutes ago, Spoonie said:

Well you did say it was misunderstood. I had it in my head the sea chest was at the mast step.  Now just thinking about it I realise that was probably silly 

37218074522_9db6a7103a_k.jpg

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Spoonie:

You were correct. Not silly. We have two sea chests.  There is one sea chest at the mast step area. You can see it forward of the mast in that pic and one sea chest aft for intake.. I thought you were referring to the aft sea chest. Sorry about that. Forward sea chest is what we call the "dump chest.. That;'s where all the discharges are.

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