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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Doug Lord

Steve and Dave Clarks Unidentified Foiling Object

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Thank you for the tips Dave!  Couldn’t get out the last few days - maybe tomorrow.  

Thank you again for taking the time to come tutor us.  Saved us 6 months of crashes.  

Rigging video is terrific!  More useful info in that video than all emails and posts combined.  

Would love have you back in the spring for UFO North Americans.   We have pretty good wind in the spring.

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9 hours ago, Dave Clark said:

Charlie, please try easing before the puff hits, hiking hard and then sheeting on. Mix in a 5 degree bearoff into this maneuver as needed. As you take off, if you are rolling to weather too much, sheet in and revert to a 90 degree reach. 6 degrees of weather heel is healthy. 15 degrees is probably too much to get yourself out of. Those are the basics of takeoff. Your new wand will be mailed out today, but I'm 100% confident, having flown that boat myself with the replacement wand off the S9 that the wand isn't holding you back.  That wand at max deployment affords a nearly ideal beginner ride height. According to Sailflow, you'll have a building baseline of 9 knots, gusting to 13 from the hours of 12 to 4 today right off the dock. If you have the chance, go out during that period follow the above instructions. It's not about making the boat flat after heeling a bit. It's about keeping the boat flat before it heels at all. Please focus all of your UFO energy on this over anything else.

And now some good stuff! Here's the long overdue rigging tutorial


DRC

Dave,

How much additional rigging needs to be done the first set up?

Thanks!

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29 minutes ago, Bad Andy said:

Dave,

How much additional rigging needs to be done the first set up?

Thanks!

Attaching the pushrod to the aft bell crank on the wand sprit and rigging the bungee to the wand sprit.

DRC

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From #8 and #10:  It's starting to get cold in the Northeast US but, at least on Long Island Sound, water temps remain palatable in the high 40s / low 50s.  No problem; a UFO is above the water, right?  Supposed to be, in theory.  In practice, I'm spending more time in the air, but still more time than I want swimming.

Some great boathandling tips in this thread.  Thanks everyone, for sharing.

Last Friday, experienced kiteboarder Charlie Z took flight for the first time.  On Saturday, my son Connor and Laser sailor Chase also flew for the first time (and thanks to Chase's dad and fellow anarchist for driving a crash boat).  My advice to them: don't heel to leeward, don't try to hike it flat.  If you are heeling to leeward, you won't lift.  Flatten the boat out, reset yourself, and try again.  All three foiled with varying success. 

As we wrapped up Saturday, breeze was touching the high 20s and I confess that it was scary.  In that kind of pressure, bear off and the boat lifts up with zero effort, and is petrifyingly fast.  (Is "petrifyingly" a word?  It should be.)  Ludicrous speed for brief moments before crashing.  Given the unsavory choice of auguring into a wooden pier on one side of the harbor entrance, or a stone jetty on the other side, I gave up, took the sail down and got towed in.  Thanks @ctdriver for the bailout!

For me, I have to work on not overreacting to changes in altitude and speed (I'd post a video but I don't know how).  I am trying to unlearn instinct from sailing "normal" boats.  I've been steadily increasing ride height; this really helps with reaction time.  Next time out, I will try max height to see how it goes.

It's been one year and seven days since my demo on the prototype at the top-secret testing lab at the Farm, and I remain obsessed.

KUk4JAXgxRzPv4lHHI6fp13nGppUFgg5QVru6f7EmtC0RHYgTWNfIEVLz8Ulh84WXkCacC7S-5AmUSVdOkovEgKbzqO29cNCudCwH2qn_I3ZbgNkLypIm7bSC-NJaTeHnoPuKyBONlT1OwXgc2HgMLZlLrX-UU8MrZmCWfzPebpHXeCWiMa5cnbBmWt0ZvXS4Y7xusKyrao_aKTwFXM8Ry-ah3OXIVgwphswpFuk3iaPdF5YeLg5Mp3nx_OKzz57b-77kMCbg2bwZ-GSylSNJAKSnbzS_GlLfbqYAJo0-cUgNPel_HqKq2bDYt43UFxMcL8fsykLmWZr83xfm3RjrtMq_F45LPJnQWIhVNYsLwBDwBI_kw3Jvkipm3wZtSPRXc0dKf-iw5u5oa0hecZUmKCsdQDKSqJ714UG0tC_hN3yuACNCEo2ntfWB_FagMilG2PulZ7SKX2EsFfsXwX6P5JKycdKk9CNrI1A0NJTIIcOCEQgGoXk6AAnOkuXeG9XAtdPMUJy69buX65d6RH0sGnT-w21UlcQFRzX2XoWWwRvlvLqJiThOKJeMTf7TerK4IDsfYDc00MLmY2Jeip0kf_YATTY2IFyym_HNNkvG7U=w810-h923-no

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Dave, I think you are right about the wand - I never reached max height with the S9 wand - the spray from the feather never stops in the video.

Without enough wind to fully foil it's only marginally better than displacement sailing. 

Went out today in a dying wind - very frustrating.  Rigged more camber in the sail - per video yesterday.

Lessons from today: 

1) Screw watching the bows.  Remembered and applied an old windsurfing/driving lesson: keep your eyes focused on the horizon far ahead of the boat.  I can feel and react to heel changes better and I can watch the wind and anticipate better.  (Seems obvious when written down like this.)

2) Yes Dave, when you can see the puff coming, a little crack-off and ease makes the boat pop up very nicely.

3) I can't ease fast enough with an active ratchet on the block.  Turned it off and got much better results.

4) In the puffs I was finally able to get enough altitude to pull the entire wand out of the water.  Wind wasn't any better - the increased camber did it I guess.

Short video:   

 

 

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^Nice takeoff! Now get going on a 90 degree reach, deviating by about 15 degrees in either direction from that and focus on controlling your roll with sheeting.

DRC

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I’m new to the forum, and returning to sailing after many, many years.  I’m inspired by the UFO and everybody sharing on the forum, and a big thanks to Steve & Dave Clark for joining the discussion and participating openly.  Says a lot about them and you all as people.  Anyway I thought I’d introduce myself.  

I apologize in advance for for all the newbie questions, and am looking forward to getting back into it.  Cheers!

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Good stuff Charlie! 

And glad I’m not sailing in 50 degree water. 

I think it’s good we are all mostly agreeing on the tips. They aren’t obvious so helps.

Im still looking for someone to figure out what to do with steering when rolling over to windward. 

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2 hours ago, Claire1000 said:

Im still looking for someone to figure out what to do with steering when rolling over to windward. 

Apparent wind. Rolling to weather on an upwind is remedied by bearing off. Rolling to weather on a downwind is remedied by rounding up and (usually) sheeting in.

DRC

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Thank you Dave.  

Claire, I have never been able to recover from a windward roll by steering alone.  Don't know why - probably too late to react or steered the wrong way.

 Sheeting in - a lot - works for me - even if my butt is dragging in the water.  I just hold on and keep sheeting until it pops back up.
Lately as soon as I ease I start sheeting in immediately to arrest the windward roll.  Too late and the roll continues. 

Balancing act between sheet tension and heel.   Mainsheet never stops now.  Seems to work for me.  

Haven't crashed since Dave was here - several sessions.  Whoo hoo!  Marginal wind, though.

Happy Thanksgiving everybody!

 

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On 11/12/2017 at 12:26 PM, Claire1000 said:

Fun video of the best puff we had. 

 

So Dave, in this case where Theo and I both ran out of the puff, my reaction, which was sheeting in with no change in bearing while still hiked is the incorrect response, and Theo's, while he didn't pull it off, was the right one, to fall off, correct?  And then, while one falls off, the key is to get one's weight in toward the middle of the boat and sheet out to prevent sail from stalling?

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14 minutes ago, True North said:

So Dave, in this case where Theo and I both ran out of the puff, my reaction, which was sheeting in with no change in bearing while still hiked is the incorrect response, and Theo's, while he didn't pull it off, was the right one, to fall off, correct?  And then, while one falls off, the key is to get one's weight in toward the middle of the boat and sheet out to prevent sail from stalling?

Exactly. Sailing into a hole is always a delicate game but essentially you're trying to nurse your way through the weak spot without touching down again with the hope that you make it out before you lose too much altitude. I've been reviewing some footage of what I do in lulls and it seems that I've trained myself to revert to nearly straight upright and rely on kinetics (hiking and pumping intermittently) to keep the power and flow on. Once back into breeze, I roll back to weather and get back to really ripping.

DRC

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On 11/21/2017 at 8:44 AM, treef said:

From #8 and #10:  It's starting to get cold in the Northeast US but, at least on Long Island Sound, water temps remain palatable in the high 40s / low 50s.  No problem; a UFO is above the water, right?  Supposed to be, in theory.  In practice, I'm spending more time in the air, but still more time than I want swimming.

Some great boathandling tips in this thread.  Thanks everyone, for sharing.

Last Friday, experienced kiteboarder Charlie Z took flight for the first time.  On Saturday, my son Connor and Laser sailor Chase also flew for the first time (and thanks to Chase's dad and fellow anarchist for driving a crash boat).  My advice to them: don't heel to leeward, don't try to hike it flat.  If you are heeling to leeward, you won't lift.  Flatten the boat out, reset yourself, and try again.  All three foiled with varying success. 

As we wrapped up Saturday, breeze was touching the high 20s and I confess that it was scary.  In that kind of pressure, bear off and the boat lifts up with zero effort, and is petrifyingly fast.  (Is "petrifyingly" a word?  It should be.)  Ludicrous speed for brief moments before crashing.  Given the unsavory choice of auguring into a wooden pier on one side of the harbor entrance, or a stone jetty on the other side, I gave up, took the sail down and got towed in.  Thanks @ctdriver for the bailout!

For me, I have to work on not overreacting to changes in altitude and speed (I'd post a video but I don't know how).  I am trying to unlearn instinct from sailing "normal" boats.  I've been steadily increasing ride height; this really helps with reaction time.  Next time out, I will try max height to see how it goes.

It's been one year and seven days since my demo on the prototype at the top-secret testing lab at the Farm, and I remain obsessed.

KUk4JAXgxRzPv4lHHI6fp13nGppUFgg5QVru6f7EmtC0RHYgTWNfIEVLz8Ulh84WXkCacC7S-5AmUSVdOkovEgKbzqO29cNCudCwH2qn_I3ZbgNkLypIm7bSC-NJaTeHnoPuKyBONlT1OwXgc2HgMLZlLrX-UU8MrZmCWfzPebpHXeCWiMa5cnbBmWt0ZvXS4Y7xusKyrao_aKTwFXM8Ry-ah3OXIVgwphswpFuk3iaPdF5YeLg5Mp3nx_OKzz57b-77kMCbg2bwZ-GSylSNJAKSnbzS_GlLfbqYAJo0-cUgNPel_HqKq2bDYt43UFxMcL8fsykLmWZr83xfm3RjrtMq_F45LPJnQWIhVNYsLwBDwBI_kw3Jvkipm3wZtSPRXc0dKf-iw5u5oa0hecZUmKCsdQDKSqJ714UG0tC_hN3yuACNCEo2ntfWB_FagMilG2PulZ7SKX2EsFfsXwX6P5JKycdKk9CNrI1A0NJTIIcOCEQgGoXk6AAnOkuXeG9XAtdPMUJy69buX65d6RH0sGnT-w21UlcQFRzX2XoWWwRvlvLqJiThOKJeMTf7TerK4IDsfYDc00MLmY2Jeip0kf_YATTY2IFyym_HNNkvG7U=w810-h923-no

Dead cool boat, well thought out and with a solid build. Can't wait to spend a little more time with the boat.  

Congrats to Dave and Steve for their creation!

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 Fourth time sailing the boat, and the learning curve continues to be vertical. Wind was between eight and 15, which was perfect foiling weather. 

 I originally went out in fairly light air and had the sail  very powered up per Dave’s video. When the wind came up, I was over powered, but found that steering in conjunction with sheeeting made a huge difference in roll rate.

I also raised the ride height so about 3” of wand was above the cam.  While it provided more time to correct, if the boat rolled past a certain point,i it was dicey on getting the boat saved.

 More good air tomorrow, but I think I’m going to opt for a dry suit.

Have not received my hiking strap material to lengthen the straps.  Still having to use my hands to get feet in and out of straps, which is not good.

Thanks  to Rod Favela for hitting the lake with me.  His VX Evo is gorgeous and fast!!  The ufo, even in my inept hands, is freaking fast and one hell of a lot of fun!!

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True North where did you get the strap material and how much will be needed? I would like to get this going before I get the boat so can get it installed right away. Will there be any mods to the existing mounts or just a straight swap in of longer straps. Seems someone talked about using some pool noodles on the straps to create a gap between the straps and the deck to ease entry under the straps. Plan on doing something similar?

 

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 Randy, the hiking scrap material is 2 inch polyester seat belt material. I ordered mine on eBay.  I think if you get 20 feet of the stuff, you will likely have a lifetime supply,   I don’t think you’ll have to use pool noodles. The manner in which the straps are held up is pretty ingenious. 

I  hope this is the solution. My issue is that I am 6’ 3”  and the geometry is just not right for me to get my feet in and out of the straps. I hope longer straps will be the answer. If not, I’m going to have to place the straps  farther  outboard.

 Charlie, great sailing, particularly at the beginning. What I found is that if I got any  leeward heel, and I gave it one try by heading up while sheeting out to get myself to at least flat and it didn’t work, I would just let everything out and start all over again. Trying to sail with any leeward  heel makes it impossible to foil. I actually started using some helm movements to accentuate maneuvers because sheeting was not quick enough in some instances. I am going to further experiment with that today assuming the wind is as predicted.

I will give you a report upon completion of outing number five. I’m going to see if I can’t hang a go pro on there today.

 

 

 

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Thanks TN!  Less wind here today, hope you have more.  Would love to see your vids. 

So when the boat pops up into skimming mode with enough speed to fully foil but leeward heel holding it back,

what is the proper reaction?  Hike harder?  Sheet out and a quick veer with the tiller?  If so, which way - up or down?  Other?

Or just wait for the next gust?

Two hour session - intermittent white caps at the beginning.  None at the end.

In the good wind it was easier to pop up - almost can't keep the boat down.  It's those lulls that make it difficult.

Here's what we have today:  

Image-1.jpg

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Charlie, if you’re heeling to leeward at take off, in my experience it meant I was sheeted too tight and over powered. What I did yesterday was start on a broader reach, really get the speed up,  hike hard, and when the boat came  free headed up a tad and sheeted in depending on roll.  

Try not to wrap the sheet on your hand.  I always had the sheet in my tiller hand trapped between my index finger and the extension so I could grab a handful with the free hand when the boat started rolling over on me. When I was near flat, I knew I was not going to have to haul in sheet, but release it, so the forward hand payed out the sheet to get the boat to heel to weather.  As soon as I got weather heel, I again held the sheet in the tiller hand with forward hand ready to haul sheet if I rolled too much to weather.

If while you’re flat the boat heels to leeward, I had my best success sheeting out and steering up slightly, which eased pressure and allowed me to get back to flat and then get weather heel.  I found that I had a very, very short time to try to save it, so get rid of leeward heel at all costs.

i found that I saved a lot of rollovers on top of me by really sheeting in aggressively and bearing off a tad. Even if I rolled in to weather, my body buoyancy kept the boat from capsizing on top of me. And the boat seemed to go fastest when rolling over to be caught by a sheet in.  

if you’re like me, you will oversheet at times and cause leeward heel.  By the end of 15 minutes, I had that licked, but it takes some messing up to get better.

lighter air here, too, but I kept the boat rigged to give it a whirl.

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Thank you TN.  I think Dave has pounded the "crack off and ease" lesson into my brain pretty well - and it works if you have enough wind. 

But that doesn't work too well if the wind isn't there.  What the video didn't show were the 90 minutes of trying that technique only to find the boat just slowing down.  Wind wasn't quite foiling quality except early and then later only in the gusts.  

The stupid hand-wrap was certainly not intentional.  I was enjoying the ride so much I got a little ahead of myself (well - maybe more than a little).  At the end I was desperately trying to shake off the excess - laughed at myself when I watched it last night.  I still need more time to adjust to this radically new sheeting technique :rolleyes:.   I still tend to over sheet.

I've gotten much better at saving the windward crash-downs with quicker sheeting.  That seems to work better than a course change.  Maybe results are different in heavier air?

I had a little hip fatigue and tried to foil kneeling down - worked ok until it heeled to weather and slid me off.  That did give me an opportunity to use my new righting line.

I tied light line to the dolly straps and just let it dangle.  Maybe a bit non-traditional but it works great.

 

 

 

Image-1-1.jpg

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13 minutes ago, Charlie P Mayer said:

So when the boat pops up into skimming mode with enough speed to fully foil but leeward heel holding it back,

what is the proper reaction?  Hike harder?  Sheet out and a quick veer with the tiller?  If so, which way - up or down?  Other?

Or just wait for the next gust?

 

Ok, the best route as a beginner is to just reset as TN suggests, however there's a way to make this work when you're really stacked up flying a hull, but it's an ace maneuver. Essentially run the "hook in" takeoff maneuver but twice as aggressively. Ease all the way out, bear of to nearly DDW, HIKE and round back up and sheet in the second the boat starts to roll past flat. What you're doing is zeroing the heeling moment off the sail by fully easing it (not really possible with the original 19 foot mainsheet but doable with the 22 foot sheet). This gives you a brief window while the speed is on but the heeling moment is lowest to punch the boat back into the pocket. Once that's done, you must get the power back on in order to retain speed and keep moving. 

 

Also seconded on TN's vids. Would love to see. They're great teaching tools.

DRC

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Oh by the way, we're doing a 10% off sale on UFOs for the next 8 hours. 
Why? Because we can. Some may think we're crazy for doing this. Some may recall that while boatbuilders rarely do sales, every car dealership under the sun does.
 

Happy Holidays!

DRC

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26 minutes ago, Randy said:

Ordering mine right now. 

 

And done.

Deposit received! Only four build slots left in our Cyber Monday sale!  Get 'em while they're hot!

DRC

 

1 hour ago, Dave Clark said:

Oh by the way, we're doing a 10% off sale on UFOs for the next 8 hours. 
Why? Because we can. Some may think we're crazy for doing this. Some may recall that while boatbuilders rarely do sales, every car dealership under the sun does.
 

Happy Holidays!

DRC

 

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2 hours ago, Randy said:

Yepper great deal. Thanks Dave. 

Two spots remaining with 4.5 hours to go! It's a race against time. Will the Cyber Monday fleet sell out before Clean tells me to buy an ad?

DRC

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22 minutes ago, Dave Clark said:

Two spots remaining with 4.5 hours to go! It's a race against time. Will the Cyber Monday fleet sell out before Clean tells me to buy an ad?

DRC

I'll take one - just apply my deposit from August against this deal. 

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25 minutes ago, TheActualDave said:

I'll take one - just apply my deposit from August against this deal. 

Can't do that on two counts. 1. Your hull just got built, so you're definitely an active customer rather than a new customer and 2. we just sold out. The last few came in pretty fast.

This concludes our Cyber Monday Doorbuster Sale
We now return to our regularly scheduled doorbuster price of $7600-USD, with dolly, sales tax exempt. 

DRC

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Dave, It's about time that someone ( you and Steve ) shakes up  small boats sailing/racing in the U.S. After a lifetime of sailing/racing many small sailboats, my hat is off to you guys. You have been able to bring a completely new concept to the water within the price range you considered essential. The UFO is clearly a success even though it is REALLY outside the box. I hope to try one someday. Your only problem seems to be the one that all boat builders would love to have - keeping up with demand so the buzz won't fade. I wish you both the best. Happy Sailing!

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16 minutes ago, Charlie P Mayer said:

....and innovative marketing gets you on the front page - well done, Dave!

Kind of irritating that the 12 year old in the promo pic is making that boat fly as I can only in my dreams!!  Ha ha!!

 

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13 hours ago, True North said:

Kind of irritating that the 12 year old in the promo pic is making that boat fly as I can only in my dreams!!  Ha ha!!

 

If it's any consolation, I'm coaching him with the headset in this picture and the venue is at 100%.

 

DRC

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Ok, maybe looking to getting on the list. Will watch these post closely. Thanks all.

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AC rates a self imposed 76.4 and 79.1 for the IC. It will be a while before you beat anyone around the course let alone correct out ahead. Don't worry about your number till you foil consistently. You on paper are going to suck for some time. I salute you for taking on the challenge and new learning curve of the UFO. 

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Thank you Lifesave.  Right now I'm pretty happy just to participate, much less finish ahead of anybody. 

I do suck, not only on paper, but on the race course too.  I don't like the RC waiting for me to finish.  

The scoring program does require a number - I guess we'll stick with the 65 for now.  

Would be nice to hear what other Clubs are using.

Charlie

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You could add 15 to that number and start with an 80 number and see how things go. You're not at Dave Clarks level by any stretch so I can't see any push back at that number "Thistle"

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Just an hour or so until I find out if my family picked up on all the hints I dropped about xmas gift for me. Subtle hints like "Get me a UFO or don't bother showing up"

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Happy new year every one!

I'm new on this thread and I found it great. I pre-ordered my UFO 3 weeks ago, and I'm eagerly waiting for her.  She will be one of the first in France (Britain closed to the ocean), as I know there is 1 not so far from me, and 1 on the other side of the country. Your feedbacks and videos are awesome, and may be Dave could develop a manual.

Have fun with UFO in this new year !

 

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We are once again invited to wickford at the start of the season. I'm trying not to force a schedule, having had that partially blow up on me as president of the IC class. Personally I'd rather have a few really good regattas that nearly everyone can make it to than stretch everyone really thin.

DRC

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On 1/3/2018 at 9:25 AM, Dave Clark said:

We are once again invited to wickford at the start of the season. I'm trying not to force a schedule, having had that partially blow up on me as president of the IC class. Personally I'd rather have a few really good regattas that nearly everyone can make it to than stretch everyone really thin.

DRC

Warm winter events sound fantastic at the moment :-)

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On 1/12/2018 at 1:44 PM, Dave Clark said:

In other news, I have received mysterious photo from the UK which purports to show a UFO flying around dorset. Fake news? You decide!

DRC

Gary flies!.jpg

Its going global, LOL.  Great to see the success!! Congrats!

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57 minutes ago, Charlie P Mayer said:

Having a crappy cold winter in central Texas - snowing again here - twice in one winter!!

Some Texas UFO sailors were discussing cold weather gear.  Need feedback please.

See updates here:  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1q1W-dATx_QTq5XPyLWv7PcFnwU4EbmFOBxnck7PQJwU/edit

I have a feeling the definition of cold is different in Texas than in Chicago :-).  I have a 5mm wet suit with hood, gloves, and boots for cold, 3/2mm for kinda cold conditions, and full spray gear for a little cold.  I love the Gill hydrophobe gear as my base layer for all conditions that I am not wearing a wetsuit.  Warm weather I run hydrophobe pants under shorts, with a long sleeve rash guard on top and a Spray top if the water is cold.  Good shoes are a must, I run something like this: https://gillna.com/p-729-aquatech-shoe.aspx in all conditions and add neoprene socks as needed.  I hate gloves but wear neoprene ones when it is freezing.  Don't forget a wool hat in the cold!

Dave will say he wears a drysuit over a wetsuit.  The rest of us will say he is crazy.

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Leadership forum: speaking on a panel as a private citizen. No demo boat. The event authority charges a lot if you want to bring a boat.

Foiling week. There for a little as part of the broader Florida demo tour. Not there for the duration. Similar reasons. Plus we just had a lot of people in Florida asking us to come down to various places and Miami was only one of five major concentrations. So this is the schedule that made the most sense.

 

DRC

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19 minutes ago, Dave Clark said:

Leadership forum: speaking on a panel as a private citizen. No demo boat. The event authority charges a lot if you want to bring a boat.

DRC

thank you dave. looks like i'll leave the sailing gear at home

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