Doug Lord

Steve and Dave Clarks Unidentified Foiling Object

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4 hours ago, Claire1000 said:

Our rudder is also tough. Give it a few more sails before sanding. It has loosened some. 

Do NOT pull up by the eyehole or string through the eyehole. That part will come out. Just use your hand on the metal strut. 

My rudder is also tough and very difficult to lift when coming back to the ramp...it's stressfull when you get closer the concrete ramp!

I tried by using hands on the metal, but it seems to induce an additional blocking by butress lock pin...

How to improve that?

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11 minutes ago, martin.langhoff said:

Does a quick silicone spray help?

I use Mc Lube but it's not effective enough

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As you're doing your pre landing approach get going at about 2 knots plus in a direction, any direction, with the rudder halyard fully loose. Wiggle the tiller side to side within about 20 degrees of total range. This unloads the rudder from one side of the plates onto the other and as it passes through the neutral point between these loadings will be extra likely to climb. Also have a decent amount of rudder positive lift on. If you have the nylon rudderhead brake, you'll automatically save this progress. Once it's at a height you're comfortable with but can still steer with, cleat off the halyard and proceed to shore.

DRC

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16 hours ago, Dave Clark said:

As you're doing your pre landing approach get going at about 2 knots plus in a direction, any direction, with the rudder halyard fully loose. Wiggle the tiller side to side within about 20 degrees of total range. This unloads the rudder from one side of the plates onto the other and as it passes through the neutral point between these loadings will be extra likely to climb. Also have a decent amount of rudder positive lift on. If you have the nylon rudderhead brake, you'll automatically save this progress. Once it's at a height you're comfortable with but can still steer with, cleat off the halyard and proceed to shore.

DRC

Thanks Dave I'll try that in my next sailing

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18 hours ago, Dave Clark said:

As you're doing your pre landing approach get going at about 2 knots plus in a direction, any direction, with the rudder halyard fully loose. Wiggle the tiller side to side within about 20 degrees of total range.

DRC

Perhaps my rudder cassette is a bit tighter than Dave's, but I find that my rudder does not lift on its own until I'm sailing at 5 knots or so.  I don't add lift to it prior to coming in, so that may help.  The good news to this is that if I am going less than 5 knots, it means the wind is pretty darn light and I'm basically coasting in, and I can usually see the bottom and jump overboard before the rudder hits the beach.   

Trying to pull the rudder up by hand while sitting on the deck does not seem to work i.  It is really difficult to lift it straight up, since is is out on the gantry, so it binds.  If you lean way back to pull more vertically, the boat will do a backflip onto you.   In my experience, I believe you either need to have the foil lift itself up while sailing, or you need to jump overboard and lift it from the water.  

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My rudder strut was sticky initially. Once I hosed it down with McLube, though, it became almost too slippery -- it was hard to get the thumbscrew to hold it up. The solution was to wipe the McLube off the section where I typically tighten the thumbscrew.

To confess, I have a small loop of line through the eyehole at the top of the rudder strut but I use it only to lift the strut enough to get my hand on the strut above the rudder housing, which takes only a light tug.

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2 hours ago, GraniteGuy said:

My rudder strut was sticky initially. Once I hosed it down with McLube, though, it became almost too slippery -- it was hard to get the thumbscrew to hold it up. The solution was to wipe the McLube off the section where I typically tighten the thumbscrew.

To confess, I have a small loop of line through the eyehole at the top of the rudder strut but I use it only to lift the strut enough to get my hand on the strut above the rudder housing, which takes only a light tug.

Like that ? 

20181018_175306.jpg

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Gilles29:  Is that a metric eye nut?  I haven't been able to find 10-32 eye nuts here in the US; the closest I can get is M4 and M5. I'm considering trying to re-thread one of those.

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6 hours ago, Gilles29 said:

Like that ? 

20181018_175306.jpg

Oh. That is very smart!

DRC

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10 hours ago, Gilles29 said:

Like that ?

That _is_ clever. #4 has a similar but simpler setup

 - the washer is larger, stops the rudder strut from going down

 - the little rope is tied to the bolt _under the washer_ -- it tilts the bolt a bit, so it'll probably void your warranty :-)

I've been daydreaming a couple tricks to make the rudder hoist easier -- #4 isn't that hard, but my 8yo can't do it solo (we haven't cracked the "use boat speed" trick yet, even then I don't think you can use it every time).

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Dave,

the rubber part of my rudder is unsticked. What glue can I use ?

20181019_134927.jpg

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7 minutes ago, Gilles29 said:

Dave,

the rubber part of my rudder is unsticked. What glue can I use ?

20181019_134927.jpg

Superglue in the case of that tiny piece of flange. That part of the plug is entirely cosmetic, as it is passing over solid aluminum. In practice on my own personal ufo, when that "tail" popped up I trimmed it with a razor blade.

DRC 

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21 hours ago, davebe said:

Gilles29:  Is that a metric eye nut?  I haven't been able to find 10-32 eye nuts here in the US; the closest I can get is M4 and M5. I'm considering trying to re-thread one of those.

I took a stainless steel eyebolt diameter 6 (with male thread)  cut the male thread , drill , and then rethread to M5 

and M5 works well

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I sailed the UFO on Saturday on Lake Champlain at the tail end of a very windy fall day.   We had seen winds of 20-25 from the SW all day, but in the late afternoon the breeze was dropping and shifting to the NW.   I launched and found that in the lulls, I wasn't foiling, but in the puffs I was overpowered.  Not ideal conditions, 5-10 with gusts of 15+ and 90 degree wind shifts.  I wasn't excited about a lot of swimming, either.  Water temps and air temps were both in the mid-50s, though I was wearing a dry suit.  I considered heading back in, but decided to try choking up a bunch on the wand so that in the puffs when I was flying, I did not get high off the water.   Per Dave's terminology, I put the boat back into 'training wheels' mode.

So I sailed  along and in the puffs, just got both hulls out of the water.  With windward heal, the windward chine skimmed the water and the leeward hull was 6-12" out.  The boat was still fairly fast, it dropped from foiling at about 13 knots to 11 knots with the full struts in the water and a bit of hull drag, but all the drama was gone.  I stayed out for an hour or so, sailing in displacement mode for 70% of the time, and low-foiling in the puffs for 30% of the time.  In marginal conditions, this was a really nice way to enjoy the boat.

If the wand was fully extended, I would have been struggling each time the puff ended to bring the boat back to the water gracefully, and would have likely capsized several times, usually by pulling the boat over on top of me when sailing with windward heel and the  having the wind drop rapidly.   In the low foiling mode, I never capsized once, nor came close to it.   For those of you sailing in Northern waters who want to continue to sail but reduce the amount of time you spend in the water, consider choking up your wands, particularly if there isn't much chop on the water.   

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Photo of the weekend from the Annapolis demo day 3. Rob Deane, director of Baltimore County Community Sailing Center kicks it along down wind in a 10 knot puff.

Day 4 featured about 19 knots gusting 30. Sufficient de-powering turned it into a 15 knot day. Definitely moded for the puffs, though.


DRC

IMG_7229.jpg

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I just heard that my new toy (#172) is boxed up and ready to head out to the SF Bay.  Are there any other UFO's in the vicinity?  (Or Tahoe?)

-Colin

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On 10/23/2018 at 8:04 PM, colinparker said:

I just heard that my new toy (#172) is boxed up and ready to head out to the SF Bay.  Are there any other UFO's in the vicinity?  (Or Tahoe?)

-Colin

me, on the Bay, and one other guy I know of

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On 10/18/2018 at 4:16 AM, Gilles29 said:

Thanks Dave I'll try that in my next sailing

Both applying silicon spray and using the technique mentioned by Dave helped me - the rudder went up while I was sailing towards the dock

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Just now, barsuk1 said:

Both applying silicon spray and using the technique mentioned by Dave helped me - the rudder went up while I was sailing towards the dock

During my last sailing the technique mentioned by Dave help me too, and my eyebolt fitted on top of rudder with a rope was efficient when lifting the rudder

 

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I have the main foil stuck hard inside the strut, no amount of pulling or pushing or pounding with hand move it even a bit now. 

Applying WD-40 and an attempt to heat the strut with hot water didn't work either. Probably not a big issue for now, but I'd like to be able to disassemble it eventually.

What other things can be done in such situation? I'm thinking about trying to use a rubber mallet maybe...

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17 minutes ago, barsuk1 said:

I have the main foil stuck hard inside the strut, no amount of pulling or pushing or pounding with hand move it even a bit now. 

Applying WD-40 and an attempt to heat the strut with hot water didn't work either. Probably not a big issue for now, but I'd like to be able to disassemble it eventually.

What other things can be done in such situation? I'm thinking about trying to use a rubber mallet maybe...

No similar problem when disassembling it after each sailing. But I take care to push on the epoxy foil while being in the axis of the alumimium part

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I had the exact same problem as Barsuk1 removing the main foil from the strut.  I leave my boat down by the water between sails and don't disassemble the foils and mast often. I'm sailing in salt-water and early-on noticed the threaded SS rods were getting difficult to unscrew from the foils, so I used Tef-Gel anti-seize on the threads of the rods in the struts, but didn't think to use it on the outside of the foil tenons themselves.   I'm not having this issue on the rudder foil; that tenon seems to fit a bit looser in the rear strut.  When new, the main foil tenon was snug, but not tight, and it slid into the strut readily. 

I tried a number of things to remove the foil from the strut, and after much effort was eventually able to do so. Here's the steps I took; you may not need them all.

The following hammering technique assumes you can unscrew the threaded rod from the foil and remove it from the top of the strut. (There is an alternate hammering method suggested by Dave at the end of this message, which can be done without removing the rod.)  I cut a long wood stick to fit inside the strut to tap the foil out, inverted the assembly so that the wood slat inside the strut can be hammered against a concrete floor,  and holding the entire assembly inverted (foil up, strut down) I pounded the end of the wood against the floor. This transfers all the hammering force to the foil tenon, putting minimal stress on the strut and wing. (I used wood rather than a long metal rod for hammering to avoid mushrooming the tenon inside the strut, and pulled out the wood frequently to make sure it wasn't getting stuck itself.)  Without any further steps, the foil wouldn't budge.

1) I tried Kroil penetrating oil, without any luck.

I then temporarily sealed the seam between the foil and strut so I could soak the tenon and inside of the strut without the liquid leaking out. (I used rope caulk, a removable weatherstrip putty.)

2) I next poured Salt-Away down the strut channel to dissolve salt build-up around the tenon and let it soak for an hour.  No luck.

3) I then poured vinegar down the strut hole to help loosen any corrosion and let it soak.  (Obviously you want to thoroughly rinse out the vinegar afterward.)

4) I then removed the sealant and flushed the strut with very hot water for at least 15 minutes. I have an outdoor hot water spigot which made this easy. This not only neutralizes the vinegar, but also heats the strut, which has a different coefficient of expansion than the stainless tenon.  You could  probably pour boiling water down the strut instead, but you want to avoid getting the epoxy of the foil too hot and weaken it.

5) While the strut was still warm, I immediately used my hammering technique, alternating with Dave's hammering technique.  Finally, after minutes of pounding, the foil budged.  I continued hammering until the foil finally came free.

Examining the foil and strut, there was just a light coating of white powder which didn't taste salty, so I assume was aluminum oxide build-up.  I used a stick wrapped with sandpaper to remove that and to open the channel in the strut slightly. I then thoroughly coated the inside of the strut mortice and the foil tenon with Tef-Gel anti-seize. (I use non-metallic anti-seize like Tef-Gel to avoid galvanic corrosion.)   The foil now drops into the strut with just the force of gravity.  I haven't been sailing since, so it remains to be seen if this will prevent the problem in the future.

 

Dave's hammering technique. (I did this on my wooden workbench, sliding the foil against the edge of the bench.  I would periodically flip the strut over onto its other side to balance the force applied to the foil on either side of the tenon.):

"Regarding getting the foil out of the strut, the trick is to slide hammer it on a bench or picnic table in order to keep the shock loading tightly located at the base. I can send you a video of how to do it. Anti sieze is good housekeeping in any stainless-on aluminum interaction, though I never use it and seem to get off scot free. My theory is that since I travel nearly once a week and disasemble it to do so, I've got "over the hump" of corrosion and now the contact area between the anode and the cathode is quite limited. "

 

Good Luck!

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14 hours ago, davebe said:

Dave's hammering technique.

Here's how I understand the technique...

Start with lubrication, give it time to do its job.

Find a wooden park bench where the planks at the end of the table line up well. Put the strut, leading edge down, in the gap between the planks. Ideally, the ends of the plank are aligned and meet the foil evenly on both sides of the strut.

Slide the strut along, until the foils meet the end of the planks.

This worked for me recently to release a very stuck foil on the strut of #4. 

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The rubber mallet is the most important tool in the Moth Tool box.

SHC

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Yeah there's a cool video of Nathan Outteridge with a mallet and a $3k moth mainfoil. I think the foil that gets hammered is Glen Ashby's...

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On 10/29/2018 at 9:31 PM, Steve Clark said:

The rubber mallet is the most important tool in the Moth Tool box.

SHC

I see you need balls of steel and cold blood to sail a foiler!

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On 10/31/2018 at 8:15 AM, sail(plane) said:

I see you need balls of steel and cold blood to sail a foiler!

Not really, but a rubber mallet makes it easier to get the strut out of the boat, and the t foil off the end.

SHC

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On 10/28/2018 at 3:13 PM, davebe said:

I had the exact same problem as Barsuk1 removing the main foil from the strut.  I leave my boat down by the water between sails and don't disassemble the foils and mast often. I'm sailing in salt-water and early-on noticed the threaded SS rods were getting difficult to unscrew from the foils, so I used Tef-Gel anti-seize on the threads of the rods in the struts, but didn't think to use it on the outside of the foil tenons themselves.   I'm not having this issue on the rudder foil; that tenon seems to fit a bit looser in the rear strut.  When new, the main foil tenon was snug, but not tight, and it slid into the strut readily. 

I tried a number of things to remove the foil from the strut, and after much effort was eventually able to do so. Here's the steps I took; you may not need them all.

The following hammering technique assumes you can unscrew the threaded rod from the foil and remove it from the top of the strut. (There is an alternate hammering method suggested by Dave at the end of this message, which can be done without removing the rod.)  I cut a long wood stick to fit inside the strut to tap the foil out, inverted the assembly so that the wood slat inside the strut can be hammered against a concrete floor,  and holding the entire assembly inverted (foil up, strut down) I pounded the end of the wood against the floor. This transfers all the hammering force to the foil tenon, putting minimal stress on the strut and wing. (I used wood rather than a long metal rod for hammering to avoid mushrooming the tenon inside the strut, and pulled out the wood frequently to make sure it wasn't getting stuck itself.)  Without any further steps, the foil wouldn't budge.

1) I tried Kroil penetrating oil, without any luck.

I then temporarily sealed the seam between the foil and strut so I could soak the tenon and inside of the strut without the liquid leaking out. (I used rope caulk, a removable weatherstrip putty.)

2) I next poured Salt-Away down the strut channel to dissolve salt build-up around the tenon and let it soak for an hour.  No luck.

3) I then poured vinegar down the strut hole to help loosen any corrosion and let it soak.  (Obviously you want to thoroughly rinse out the vinegar afterward.)

4) I then removed the sealant and flushed the strut with very hot water for at least 15 minutes. I have an outdoor hot water spigot which made this easy. This not only neutralizes the vinegar, but also heats the strut, which has a different coefficient of expansion than the stainless tenon.  You could  probably pour boiling water down the strut instead, but you want to avoid getting the epoxy of the foil too hot and weaken it.

5) While the strut was still warm, I immediately used my hammering technique, alternating with Dave's hammering technique.  Finally, after minutes of pounding, the foil budged.  I continued hammering until the foil finally came free.

Examining the foil and strut, there was just a light coating of white powder which didn't taste salty, so I assume was aluminum oxide build-up.  I used a stick wrapped with sandpaper to remove that and to open the channel in the strut slightly. I then thoroughly coated the inside of the strut mortice and the foil tenon with Tef-Gel anti-seize. (I use non-metallic anti-seize like Tef-Gel to avoid galvanic corrosion.)   The foil now drops into the strut with just the force of gravity.  I haven't been sailing since, so it remains to be seen if this will prevent the problem in the future.

 

Dave's hammering technique. (I did this on my wooden workbench, sliding the foil against the edge of the bench.  I would periodically flip the strut over onto its other side to balance the force applied to the foil on either side of the tenon.):

"Regarding getting the foil out of the strut, the trick is to slide hammer it on a bench or picnic table in order to keep the shock loading tightly located at the base. I can send you a video of how to do it. Anti sieze is good housekeeping in any stainless-on aluminum interaction, though I never use it and seem to get off scot free. My theory is that since I travel nearly once a week and disasemble it to do so, I've got "over the hump" of corrosion and now the contact area between the anode and the cathode is quite limited. "

 

Good Luck!

Rubber mallet is the thing. None of the above needed - 4 light punches with the mallet and it started getting out :)

IMG_20181103_154242737_HDR.jpg

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On 10/18/2018 at 1:07 PM, davebe said:

Gilles29:  Is that a metric eye nut?  I haven't been able to find 10-32 eye nuts here in the US; the closest I can get is M4 and M5. I'm considering trying to re-thread one of those.

M5, ordered online at Walmart - works well

IMG_20181103_154316133.jpg

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On 8/24/2016 at 8:12 PM, Rasputin22 said:

The boom/spreader/mast geomtry is brilliant! Congrats and can't wait to see more. This could be the mythical 'peoples foiler'. The hull reminds me of a Hobie MonoMulti 12'er that they built for a while. Could it be the donor hull for this boat?

 

IMAG0639.jpg

 

Monocat was the name

 

MonoCat3a500.jpg

Wonder where this is... reminds me of the southern most jetty in Long Beach CA.

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From this weekend. Reject weakness. Sail boats that are as tough as you are. There was a laser out there too when the breeze was a bit lighter but its mast snapped.

35 knots (40mph) in most puffs 27 knots (32 mph) in the quieter lulls. 50 knot waterspout missed us by less than a quarter mile. Unsailable conditions are a hoax.

DRC

DSC_9751 (1).JPG

DSC_9742a.jpg

DSC_9746.JPG

DSC_9749.JPG

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DRC - Could you post a video of the process for injecting West Systems epoxy into the carbon mast bracket?  Got my mast sanded and the bracket fitted.  The fit it tight. I am wondering what is involved in injecting the epoxy.  Is this what the holes in the side of the new bracket are for?

THX

seth

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3 hours ago, pasdnous said:

DRC - Could you post a video of the process for injecting West Systems epoxy into the carbon mast bracket?  Got my mast sanded and the bracket fitted.  The fit it tight. I am wondering what is involved in injecting the epoxy.  Is this what the holes in the side of the new bracket are for?

THX

seth

pasdnous:  If you are talking about the new carbon spreader bracket, make sure you also rough up the inner diameter of the bracket itself.   I installed mine without sanding the bracket and the epoxy failed to bond to the bracket and it rotated the first time out.   As for injecting, Dave instructed me simply to paint the mast in the bracket location and about 3" above the bracket with West Epoxy.  So when the bracket slides onto the mast, it pulls a film of epoxy under it and gets dragged under to coat the entire bracket surface.  Wipe away the excess epoxy with a rag.   

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I recently saw a UFO on one of the Dunes lagoons in LBI New Jersey.  Id love to take a closer look at the boat if you are lurking on here.  Im curious how it goes in a bay this shallow.

Thanks

 

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Looking for suggestions of warm places that have good UFO conditions to sail this winter.  I have some time off in December and its getting cold in Chicago.

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1 hour ago, Bad Andy said:

Looking for suggestions of warm places that have good UFO conditions to sail this winter.  I have some time off in December and its getting cold in Chicago.

Biscayne Bay, Miami. PM me...

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3 hours ago, Bad Andy said:

Looking for suggestions of warm places that have good UFO conditions to sail this winter.  I have some time off in December and its getting cold in Chicago.

Otto is planning a UFO Event in Charleston on December 15-16, with maybe a clinic on the 14th,  Fulcrum Speedworks will be there.

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58 minutes ago, Bill's Sock Puppet said:

Otto is planning a UFO Event in Charleston on December 15-16, with maybe a clinic on the 14th,  Fulcrum Speedworks will be there.

Good chance I'll be there for the event as well!

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22 hours ago, Bad Andy said:

Looking for suggestions of warm places that have good UFO conditions to sail this winter.  I have some time off in December and its getting cold in Chicago.

San Diego, CA is great all winter.  Air temp 65-70 degrees, water temp 65 degrees, winds are 10-12kts most days.  

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On 11/9/2018 at 3:02 PM, martin.langhoff said:

Biscayne Bay, Miami. PM me...

I'm 1/2 hr from there through December...

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On 11/10/2018 at 8:56 PM, fastyacht said:

I'm 1/2 hr from there through December...

Well well. We might be able to arrange something. firstname.lastname@gmail.com gets to me. 

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Awesome to hear everyone is interested in and excited about doing some UFO sailing down south this winter. Wanted to let everyone know that the Dec 15-16 regatta in Charleston is not going to happen. We had a miscommunication with the club on numbers (they were thinking ~5 boats), and we were intending to invite all the UFO owners and already had more than 5 people fully committed by talking to folks individually to gauge interest. We're working on doing a bigger, better Charleston regatta in winter/spring 2019 that will be on a weekend where the club can accommodate a larger number of boats. In the future when Fulcrum Speedworks is assisting in organizing an event, we'll post an NOR here when it's official. Until then, everything is still hypothetical. 

Now back to the good news. We aren't just planning one event in Charleston in 2019, we're looking to do multiple events down south this winter. We've already started conversations with a number of owners via email to figure out what folks want. If you own a UFO, haven't heard from me and want to be involved in event planning, PM me or email me at nick.ufosailing AT gmail and I'll be happy to include you in the conversations. If you don't own a boat and want one, I can help solve that problem, too. Get in touch.

Look forward to seeing everyone for a UFO event in warmer climes soon. As much fun as we've had frostbiting up in the Newport for the last couple weekends, foiling is even more fun when you can do it in a bathing suit.

-Nick

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Sorry to hear that the Dec 15/16 event was cancelled.   Selfishly I'm a little happy, as I could not make it down that weekend, so I'll stay closely tuned for the rescheduled date and do my best to make it work later in the winter.  With 3-6" of snow forecast for tonight, I finally said "uncle" and pulled my UFO off the beach this morning and tucked it away in the basement for the winter.  

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On 11/11/2018 at 9:17 PM, martin.langhoff said:

Well well. We might be able to arrange something. firstname.lastname@gmail.com gets to me. 

I sent you an email early this afternoon.

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Update: Four down. Congrats to Owen, Adam, Zach and Paul!

DRC

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5 boats sold. Congrats to Owen, Adam, Zach, Peter and Chris!

Dave told us to stop there, but we just couldn't do that you guys, so we've staged a mutiny!!! With Dave out of the picture, new management has agreed to keep the sale going until 6pm EST... or until the dog treats run out.

image.thumb.png.25d62367bf5b8647a5b3f1b6fac6333d.png

And now that we're free of Dave's rules, sales have been running at a furious pace and we're up to 7 boats sold. Congratulations are due for Forrest and Bill!

The deal goes away at 6pm EST, so take advantage of it NOW! Only 2 hours left.

-Nick

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2 hours ago, burritoughs said:

5 boats sold. Congrats to Owen, Adam, Zach, Peter and Chris!

Dave told us to stop there, but we just couldn't do that you guys, so we've staged a mutiny!!! With Dave out of the picture, new management has agreed to keep the sale going until 6pm EST... or until the dog treats run out.

image.thumb.png.25d62367bf5b8647a5b3f1b6fac6333d.png

And now that we're free of Dave's rules, sales have been running at a furious pace and we're up to 7 boats sold. Congratulations are due for Forrest and Bill!

The deal goes away at 6pm EST, so take advantage of it NOW! Only 2 hours left.

-Nick

I BROKE OUT OF THE BREAK ROOM AND THESE IDIOTS HAVE GONE AND RUN THE SCORE UP TO 9 BOATS! I WILL HONOR THE TERMS EXTENDED TO Jago, Geoff, Bill, Owen, Forrest, Chris, Zach, Adam and Peter (congratulations by the way) BUT NO SALES EVER AGAIN EVER! I SWEAR. THE DOG IS SUSPENDED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. DAVE OUT

DRC

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On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 4:38 PM, Champlain Sailor said:

Sorry to hear that the Dec 15/16 event was cancelled.   Selfishly I'm a little happy, as I could not make it down that weekend, so I'll stay closely tuned for the rescheduled date and do my best to make it work later in the winter.  With 3-6" of snow forecast for tonight, I finally said "uncle" and pulled my UFO off the beach this morning and tucked it away in the basement for the winter.  

How about the Charlotte Harbor Regatta?  Get in touch with Brian and maybe he can squeeze in another class.

www.charlotteharborregatta.com/

gleason@charlotteharborregatta.com

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@Dave Clark

I'm a little lost. Didn't you put out a video on Black Friday saying that you couldn't offer any UFO deals this year and then a few days later you offer a Cyber Monday deal?  

Tell me that I'm wrong and that I'm imagining this.  

I've been putting the UFO in front of a couple of friends to get their kids, who once were really into sailing and are both fading away, to get one of your boats to get their kids stoked about sailing again.  That deal, had it been more clear that it was going to happen, could have been the ticket for the parents to buy.

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2 hours ago, WCB said:

@Dave Clark

I'm a little lost. Didn't you put out a video on Black Friday saying that you couldn't offer any UFO deals this year and then a few days later you offer a Cyber Monday deal?  

Tell me that I'm wrong and that I'm imagining this.  

I've been putting the UFO in front of a couple of friends to get their kids, who once were really into sailing and are both fading away, to get one of your boats to get their kids stoked about sailing again.  That deal, had it been more clear that it was going to happen, could have been the ticket for the parents to buy.

That was a modestly complicated joke. I mentioned getting ready for cyber Monday three times and said we wouldn't be doing a black Friday sale on black Friday twice. Given that we sold two times as many boats as last year's one day cyber Monday sale, I have limited evidence to suggest that was a bad move. That said, fleet deals are cheap and at our base price of $7600 we're providing a lot of smiles per dollar at a margin we can survive on, grow on and support our owners on. Send 'em our way. We'd love to get them and their kids flying.

DRC 

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4 hours ago, Dave Clark said:

That was a modestly complicated joke. I mentioned getting ready for cyber Monday three times and said we wouldn't be doing a black Friday sale on black Friday twice. Given that we sold two times as many boats as last year's one day cyber Monday sale, I have limited evidence to suggest that was a bad move. That said, fleet deals are cheap and at our base price of $7600 we're providing a lot of smiles per dollar at a margin we can survive on, grow on and support our owners on. Send 'em our way. We'd love to get them and their kids flying.

DRC 

I see...I guess I didn't watch the video long enough.  I don't mean to offend but when I saw and heard you eating while talking on the video that kind of drove me nuts so I shut the video off.  That nailed one of my pet peeves so I had to bail on the video.

I won't let my issues get in the way of what you're doing. It's a great price for what you're offering and I'll keep pushing these parents to pick a couple up for their kids.  

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The boat will be presented for the first time in Europe at the Paris Boat Show in December 2018.
A real opportunity for French sailors to see the boat and program a demo.

www.ufofoiler.fr

Salon2.png

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Hi All,

I'm a new UFO owner and also new to foiling.  I just got back from my first session where there was enough wind to actually get up on the foils.  I am in the San Francisco and the wind was averaging 14 mph with gust into 20 mph.  I launched out of Chrissy Field and I was contending with 3-4ft swells.  I set the wand to ~1.5 feet.  (What I thought was beginner mode)

First thing... THAT WAS AMAZING!  The moment the boat lifts out of the water is unlike anything I've experienced.  I had precious few segments where the boat felt balanced and I was flying.  (Never for more than 20 seconds)  And I feel that I learned some really important lessons about when to and how much to sheet, but I have balance questions!!!

  1. Sometimes, when a gust hit, I felt the boat take off and quickly rise up on the foils.  However, even with the wand completely out the water it kept rising and quickly afterwards crashed back down.  I felt like Icarus climbing towards the sun...  I tried sliding my body position forward, but that didn't seem to fix it.  The front foil was in the middle dimple in the block.  Any clue how to avoid that in the future?
  2. I presume this is just because of the swells, but I seemed to nose the pontoons under a couple of times.  It was funny... the boat tried turning into a submarine as the sail kept driving water over the deck.  Eventually it flipped.  Does anyone have any advice on how to avoid this?  Perhaps the front pad is too far forward for someone 200 lbs?
  3. Tacking seems to be impossible.  I saw reference to the Heisman tack earlier... is that necessary even in heavier wind?  When do you move over to the other side of the boat?  It seems that I if I move over to early, the boat tends to round into the wind even more.
  4. I have a hard time moving the boat on the dolly.  I am hunched over and don't seem to ever have a good handle on pulling the boat forward and making certain it isn't rubbing on the ground.  Any tricks to make this easier?  I'm sure the fact that I am pulling it across sand doesn't help either...

Thanks a ton for the fun boat and all the advice that people have shared on this forum already.  Its is a steep learning curve... but I feel that I am going to love every moment of it.

-Colin

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Bravo! You seem to be doing all the right things in points 1 and 2. Just try flatter water for early outings. There's an outside chance re point 1 that one of the rods is too long and is always pushing the flap down. You can test it on land with the foil fully up -- see that the flap has a full range of positions and moves with the wand. Before you start,  make sure the latch is holding the foil vertical and not the flap. 

3 - flat water again and .. practice. Weight to the back to help the hull pivot.

4 - I had similar struggles. I now grab one of the bows and push it down gently. With the other hand I push on the mast. I drive the boat backwards on land...

HTH!

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In the post of the French importer of UFO above, you can see 3 pics : 2 are known on the site of FS and one is from France (on the left)

You can notice on this one that the sailor is wearing a helmet.

On all videos and pics from US, nobody is wearing a helmet ... :wacko:

What do you think ??

 

 

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Good on ya, Colin! Glad you're having fun getting your wings. You're in good hands on the UFO forum.

So I just got off the water from another fun day of UFO frostbiting up in Newport (no such thing as cold weather, only cold clothing) and I've got another technique development dispatch. Nick and I did a run of two boat testing for a weekend several months back and in those conditions (8-12), we found that keeping weather heel no greater than ~6 degrees, steering relatively straight and hiking pretty very hard at a high ride height was better than banking too much on weather heel or trying some sort of arty S-course. Today we had more varible conditions in the harbor but with the variations being BIG puffs of 15 knots on a baseline of 6 or 7 and out in the bay we had a solid while there of 12 gusting 15 on modestly calm water. We learned some stuff

Cold water sailing comes with a higher risk of cavitating and ventilating (the two seem to often work in tandem) the foils when they get overloaded. This has the huge practical upshot of telling you in a pretty profound fashion weather you're putting too much induced drag on any point in the system. If you're sailing with all the foils efficiently loaded, your cavitation onset will be far less frequent and far higher up the boatspeed range. This "blowing out" has been influencing our sailing styles. Relying on the standard good upwind racing method established this summer comes with some extra risks. Since you aren't heeling as much to weather your lateral resistance loading on the tiny part of your mainfoil still in the water is pretty high. If a puff hits you and you don't ease out beforehand or pinch into the puff initially, the sudden increase in moment laterally on the sail can bring the induced drag on the foil high enough that the strut cavitates. Say goodbye to close contact. You just crabbed five boat lengths to leeward and may well have to do a full reset to get the strut reattached. We've been fiddling about with the best way to race effectively around this constraint and Nick came up with a mode which I then copied and we both think is VERY quick upwind in those mid-high windspeeds. I definitely couldn't hold him upwind until I adopted the mode. So here's the rough cheat sheet on what I think we found out.

"KING CRAB MODE"

Mainfoil-1st hole (so minimum angle of attack)
ruddder- 25/30% (matched to the mainfoil- level and low drag)
Ride height- actually not max. You need to sink the foil a bit more to hold high weather heel and keep the foil tip from piercing the surface. I had about 6 inches of wand showing at the top of the cam.

Rig tension-No emperical data (naughty us) but WAY on. My mast was S-bent before I pulled the other lines on
Halyard-full hoist
Outhaul- Bottomed out
Cunningham- bottomed out
Sail shape is VERY tight on a stiff spar. Trailing edge is relatively stiff. There is a tiny barely noticeable amount of camber in the tip of the sail and maybe four inches of camber at the midpoint of the boom. This is a low lift high drag sail that can stick it out and keep producing good lift at low angles of attack generated by serious apparent wind. It is no fun to take off with but in these conditions you can usually pony up and hook maneuver it into the air and at that point the setup keeps you shredding, so it makes more sense here.

Hiking position: about pad #2, maybe slightly forward on pad 2. Using the leeward strap so that my butt is firmly on the boat. Athleticism is not going to define this mode. Control will. Also you'll be flying lower and with more weather heel so you need to be prepared for the weather hull to occasionally touch down. Spanking yourself on the water will crater your speed. Game over.

Technique:

-one note, I only got this dialed in when we were in the variable conditions, Burrioughs had this working in a far more consistently windy spot earlier in the day and likely has a lot more light to shed on this than I do, but hey, share everything all the time!

A.Hook maneuver hard downwind to take off. In this mode I found it best to do a slight sudden ease and re-sheet to take the pitching force from the sail off for a second. This kicks the bow up and gets you climbing. Maybe I was just tired but I didn't do a hip-roll aft to take off and I wasn't skooching forward once in the air to keep perched on the mainfoil.

B. Once going, prioritize establishing a LOT of weather heel. I've still been too lazy to put a $2 heel gauge on my boat but if I tilt the 3d model of the UFO in my software until it resembles nick repeatedly beating me up in this mode, you peak at as much as 34.5 degrees of heel. You're planting the foot hard. Focus on holding this heel angle over everything and cleanly accelerating. Remember that the rig and foil setup are 100% biased to have very limited initial power and super high efficiency for high speeds. So you need to climb up the speed range as possible when possible and conserve your gains by sailing cleanly. This involves very light steering and a lot of preemptive sheeting. I found that having my torso turned towards the bow so I could be a sheet-hand first and a skipper second helped a lot. It also made my view of oncoming puffs far better, and that will matter a lot.

C. When you see a puff coming at you hold your course, do not try to pinch into it, but most importantly HOLD YOUR HEEL ANGLE TO STAY PLANTED. You want to have the mainfoil gain lift as you accelerate and fully obsolete any sideforce still coming from the strut. The strut, because it is piercing the surface, is simply far too likely to cavitate and ventilate, entering into a skid mode that's costly and hard to save. You want to be heavily biased to using the puff to power up the lifting foil, which is buried, larger than the portion of strut still in the water and built asymmetrically to be better at climbing in the direction you're trying to push at this point. Get all of your gradual speed-build's power gains to go to the lifting foil. 

D. Waaiit forrr itttt... Crab to weather! We're still trying to figure out how this precisely initiates and at present it's a lot more about getting in the right spot with the strut fully unloaded and traveling nicely to weather for it to "trip" and catch flow on it's leeward side. Our trunks are both pretty sloppy right now so the strut has a little bit of free will. But when it happens, you'll know. The bow jerks suddenly to weather and the boat climbs about half a lane up vs it's course beforehand nearly instantly. The mainfoil strut has been so successfully unloaded that it has gone neutral and then tripped and turned into a gyber board. It is now operating at a degree or so of angle of attack relative to the course of the hull and attached flow in that angle. It is tugging you straight upwind. Bad news, it is also pulling you downwards a bit so the system will briefly fight to take on this new load. So I find that the trip to weather comes with a slight tick of the bow towards the surface which quickly corrects. But you just put tons of VMG on the board! This feels a lot like the mysterious "suddenly shredding straight upwind for fifteen seconds and then fully touching down" state that I've been experiencing without proper understanding of for years but step E makes it a more predictable and controllable tool.

E. Used your rudder to keep the UFO in this groove and stop it from driving you into an overpinched mode. This I think is what I've been experiencing in the sudden moments of really aggressive upwind speed and VMG over the years. The strut unloads, loads on the new side and begins hauling the boat to weather at an escalated aoa. As opposed to before the unload, this is now bonus sideforce capacity on top of the sufficient side-force being generated by the lifting foil. So the boat starts crab walking sideways. If you don't know what's going on, the boat begins to gradually round up to weather, going faster and faster towards your upwind target. Because the boat is going partially sideways, you can avoid getting overpinched for longer because you're approaching the apparent wind on a slight angle. So at the outset, apparent wind doesn't shift forward as fast as it would have without the crab walking. However, if you're not compensating with the rudder, it inevitably reaches a point where you're pointing way too high and you either totally unload the sail and roll over to weather or just slow down a ton and need to do a sudden hard bearaway to stay flying. Either way you fell out of the groove and need to reset.

However, if you were obeying the rule of step E- you've been working to stay in the groove the whole time by pulling the tiller gently towards you from time to time as needed. This isn't steering, per se, so much as using the rudder strut as a control flap for your main strut which is now working to yank you straight to weather. You have a stable system allowing you to fly and track now fully established in the two lifting foils. So now your struts are at least partially an ancillary system that controls your surplus VMG production or 'crabbing'. If left to it's own devices, the forward crabbing foil will also pinch you up and lead to the feedback loop mentioned above, so you need to gently play the rudder to prevent this and keep it in it's most productive groove. 

F. Crush your enemies! 

G. If you are in France, do steps A through F in a helmet. :)

-Disclaimer. The above description of the fluid dynamics may be 100% wrong but the sailing technique definitely works, so who cares.

DRC


-ps. For anyone in the audience who knows everything, I will once again clarify that I do know that t-foils reach their maximum performance by generating both vertical and lateral force on the horizontal foil. The nuance in play here is the deliberate early weather heel to prevent the vertical from taking load early and allow it to instead engage as a crabbing foil generating surplus lift to weather

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On 12/1/2018 at 8:32 PM, colinparker said:

Hi All,

I'm a new UFO owner and also new to foiling.  I just got back from my first session where there was enough wind to actually get up on the foils.  I am in the San Francisco and the wind was averaging 14 mph with gust into 20 mph.  I launched out of Chrissy Field and I was contending with 3-4ft swells.  I set the wand to ~1.5 feet.  (What I thought was beginner mode)

First thing... THAT WAS AMAZING!  The moment the boat lifts out of the water is unlike anything I've experienced.  I had precious few segments where the boat felt balanced and I was flying.  (Never for more than 20 seconds)  And I feel that I learned some really important lessons about when to and how much to sheet, but I have balance questions!!!

  1. Sometimes, when a gust hit, I felt the boat take off and quickly rise up on the foils.  However, even with the wand completely out the water it kept rising and quickly afterwards crashed back down.  I felt like Icarus climbing towards the sun...  I tried sliding my body position forward, but that didn't seem to fix it.  The front foil was in the middle dimple in the block.  Any clue how to avoid that in the future?
  2. I presume this is just because of the swells, but I seemed to nose the pontoons under a couple of times.  It was funny... the boat tried turning into a submarine as the sail kept driving water over the deck.  Eventually it flipped.  Does anyone have any advice on how to avoid this?  Perhaps the front pad is too far forward for someone 200 lbs?
  3. Tacking seems to be impossible.  I saw reference to the Heisman tack earlier... is that necessary even in heavier wind?  When do you move over to the other side of the boat?  It seems that I if I move over to early, the boat tends to round into the wind even more.
  4. I have a hard time moving the boat on the dolly.  I am hunched over and don't seem to ever have a good handle on pulling the boat forward and making certain it isn't rubbing on the ground.  Any tricks to make this easier?  I'm sure the fact that I am pulling it across sand doesn't help either...

Thanks a ton for the fun boat and all the advice that people have shared on this forum already.  Its is a steep learning curve... but I feel that I am going to love every moment of it.

-Colin

Colin some tips to add to what others have said. 

If the boat starts trying to foil "to infinity and beyond" you need to get the bow down. That means add rudder lift or reduce mainfoil lift by going pin forward. You can also move weight forward, but for starters I'd suggest sitting on the middle pad and adjusting the foils. Upwind you'll move forward, so you only have one butt cheek on the middle pad, and downwind you'll move aft similarly, but you never sit fully on the front pad. (Disclaimer: "Moth" mode where you do sit fully on the front pad and bias the lift to the mainfoil might be a fast mode, but its not the easiest or most stable for a beginner.) Based on the windspeed you should have been in the second "pinhole" (really a dimple) from the bow for mainfoil AoA. You might have even been able to go all the way forward with the mainfoil pin, but at 200 lbs I think you'd want to wait for a little more breeze to do that. 

Heisman tack is the way to go when not foiling even in heavier wind. You move towards the middle of the boat as you pull the sail over the top of your head. In light air you'll stay on the old windward side with weight aft as the bow gets down to your new course. However, in bigger breeze and waves you'll move across quicker and put your weight a little more forward. If you get stuck in irons and have to back out of a tack, move weight forward if the boat starts dig the sterns in. If you keep weight aft while backing down in bigger waves, you'll reverse pitchpole over the stern. 

 

Flatter water is your friend as a beginner. Ideally, you want 10-12 knots and less than 1 foot of chop to make your UFO as easy as possible to foil, but I'm guessing those conditions show up at the SF city front approximately never. So let's talk about waves. The bigger risk in waves once you get the weight placement and foil tune lined up is launching the boat right out of the water going up a steep wave, not stuffing the bows as you're already experienced. As a beginner I'd focus on reaching along perpendicular to the waves. The easiest point of sail to get a UFO on the foils is bearing away below a beam reach, but I'd suggest you stay parallel to the chop to start to take waves out of the equation as much as possible. Keeping the ride height on the lower side as you've already done, will help with getting launched off waves. As you get comfortable move to working on weather heel and then making VMG upwind.

Waves are much easier to foil through upwind. You'll you want to steer for low spots in the waves like you would in any other boat. You can also move weight fore-aft and ooch the bow down over the crests. At lower ride heights you'll bash the windward hull through the crests and at full ride height you'll be able to keep your hulls dry. The boat will sail like any other dinghy in terms of technique in waves, only you'll be hovering a couple feet over the water. Additionally, due to windward heel your rudder is no longer just a steering control; it's also a pitch control. Heading up pushes the bow down and bearing away lifts the bow up. So now in concert with all your wave steering and old-fashioned dinghy kinetics you can play pitch with the rudder. Simply, this means heading up slightly over the crests of particularly bad pieces of chop as you ooch the bow down and do everything else you can to keep the boat planted.

Finally, there's a dirty trick for foiling upwind in waves. It's very simple. Add rudder lift. You'll know when you've added enough, because the boat will be absurdly easy to sail upwind in waves. It's a truly amazing feeling, because most of the stuff I told you above about pitch-stabilizing the boat in waves can be ignored without crashing. When I first really discovered this mode I was running into 4-6 feet of wind against current chop on LI Sound in 12-14 knots of breeze off of Stamford, CT. The mode was so stable, I started pointing the bow directly at the biggest waves to see if I would get launched and crash back down. Again and again I cruised straight through particularly nasty pieces of chop until I finally found a particularly steep 6-footer that caused the boat to launch and crash. Note, I didn't ooch the bow down over the crest or use my rudder to pitch-stabilize the boat. Either would have kept the boat on its feet even on the particularly big and steep wave.

Sailing in the super rudder lift mode is truly ethereal, but it does have two downsides. One, you'll have trouble getting foiling, because the boat will pitch bow down and try to dig the bows. You'll need to move weight aggressively aft to resist this and try to foil parallel to the wave sets, so you don't dig the bows into the face of the chop. Once you're up and flying you can turn upwind, and if you have the boat set up right you will know. Two, it will be impossible to sail downwind in waves in this mode. You'll need to take a couple of turns off the rudder before you try to make VMG downwind on the foils. 

You'll note I've said nothing about foiling downwind in big waves and nasty chop. Unfortunately, there's no dirty tuning trick to make it easy. You just have to practice, practice, practice until you begin to acquire ninja skills. All the same physics and techniques apply as upwind. You'll reach along the wave troughs and push the bow down through the low spots in the waves. Additionally, you'll start to notice that your speed and the frequency at which you're hitting the waves is very important. If you're slow and you try to go low over the crest of a wave you'll more likely than not get launched. If you're fast and carrying apparent low, you can crush right through a wave set and maintain stability. Basically, there's a lag in the flap control system, so if you punch through the crest of the wave quickly and the wand starts going forward again, the flap never gets pushed down long enough to launch you. However, if you linger on the backside of wave either due to speed or angle, then its off to "infinity and beyond" followed by a large splash.

-Nick

P.S. When you dig the bows, release the mainsheet and head up. Most of the time you'll be fine. You can get green water on the second pad and survive as long as you ease the mainsheet immediately.

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14 hours ago, Dave Clark said:

D. Waaiit forrr itttt... Crab to weather! We're still trying to figure out how (...) when it happens, you'll know. The bow jerks suddenly to weather and the boat climbs about half a lane up vs it's course beforehand nearly instantly.

Whoa! So this acts like the reverse of the slippage you get when you fly too high, heading upwind. Couple thoughts...

- What do we do with the RRS?! It's well established that a foiler heading upwind can skip sideways if flying too high. Ben Ainslie got his cat on top of Team Japan's to illustrate the point. If what DRC reports is real (as opposed to, y'know, flying saucers and stuff) then... what? No lane is safe...

I've experienced the skip to leeward on my catamaran. Disconcerting as f the first time! Once I had it happen a few times, I could almost always predict it, and prevent it -- in the warm waters I sail, anyway, and just fooling around. In close racing, boats that skip around are bound to be a complete mess.

- Does this crabbing work on any other foiler? Mothies/Wazsps? Might it depend on cold water?

- 35 deg is a lot, was that the max lean observed or the equilibrium point?

- The wind description is a bit confusing, you seem to say that others should try it with 10-15kt, flat waters.

- The difference of rig configuration between takeoff and upwind is a PITA. A small change to the cunningham finetune setup so that it can be made to work from the hiking position to flatten once on the foils is on my xmas list ;-) (knowing full well it won't happen, others have probably pointed that out already)

Sounds like you guys are having fun! More!

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Q- What do we do with the RRS?! It's well established that a foiler heading upwind can skip sideways if flying too high. Ben Ainslie got his cat on top of Team Japan's to illustrate the point. If what DRC reports is real (as opposed to, y'know, flying saucers and stuff) then... what? No lane is safe...
 

A- No lane is safe from a boat one lane up from you capsizing either. Lane invasion from above is a foul. Lane invasion from below is a leeward up situation and anyone being crabbed up must yield. Part 2 has been the case with gybing boards on 14's and canoes for years.

 

Q- Does this crabbing work on any other foiler? Mothies/Wazsps? Might it depend on cold water?

A-I think this one is partially more profound because the strut is seriously out in front of the CoP on the mainsail. It's definitely a bigger signal when it shows up. This doesn't have anything to do with cold water. The cold water just forced us into an area where we found the mode.

 

Q- 35 deg is a lot, was that the max lean observed or the equilibrium point?

A-That's the max. You're swinging around between 20 and 35 roughly. Seems like a far less athletic mode because you perch in the boat and play the main.

 

Q- The wind description is a bit confusing, you seem to say that others should try it with 10-15kt, flat waters.

A-Basically, yes

 

Q- The difference of rig configuration between takeoff and upwind is a PITA. A small change to the cunningham finetune setup so that it can be made to work from the hiking position to flatten once on the foils is on my xmas list ;-) (knowing full well it won't happen, others have probably pointed that out already)

A-Who's re-tuning their sails after takeoff? Seems like too much playing with string. Far safer for people to have no distractions while they're driving.

 

Q-Sounds like you guys are having fun! More!

A-Can't wait for next sunday!

 

 

DRC

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Nick, Martin, and Dave,

Thank you all for the quick responses and advice! I now have lots more to concentrate on next time I get out!

Thanks again,

-Colin

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UFO FOR SALE!!!!       If you missed the nonexistent black Friday sale and the Cyber Monday sale. Don't miss out on this one.

Boat Like new used 5 times. Including like new Trailer with Reg. ready to roll anywhere! The only reason I'm selling is lack of time to use.

Contact me through Classified ad in dinghy section.

Best to all....what an AMAZING BOAT Dave and team!!

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UFO1.jpg

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@colinparker

Colin

   Welcome to the UFO forum!  Chrissy Field is a beautiful place to sail, I was there last month and wishing I had my UFO!

 

  I think you have received some really good responses to your questions.  One more observation, I find that on takeoff I am usually hiking hard while the boat is not foiling but accelerating toward takeoff.  Keeping the boat flat in this phase is crucial—in particular you really don’t want leeward heel on takeoff or you will never get the boat back flat once airborne (foilborne??).  As the boat takes off, keep hiking until the boat starts to heel to weather.  Once the boat starts rolling to weather, pull your body weight into the center of the boat (stop hiking and snap your body to a seated position). 

 

  The theory here is as follows:  as the foils begin to create force, the force is not solely vertical, rather the force is 90 degrees to the plain of the foil.  This means as the foil beings to heel to windward, it not only produces vertical lift (lifting you out of the water) but also righting force that counteracts the heeling force of the wind against the sail.  (This is called ‘force vector decomposition’ in physics in case you want to check it out on Wikipedia.)

 

  Once airborne, I describe my role as the manager of the tension between the righting force of the foil vs. the heeling force of the sail.  I do hike but body adjustments are just not fast enough to deal with the rapidly changing roll-forces of the sail and foil—sheeting and tiller movements are preferred. 

 

  As an aside, once the boat is heeling to leeward your hiking is fighting both the heeling force of the sail as well as the heeling force of the ‘heeled-to-leeward’ foil.  Practically, this means ‘forget it’….you can’t hike hard enough to win that fight.  Most people either do an aggressive bear off, sheet out and hike to flatten the boat (advanced move) or just sheet out and land the boat and redo a takeoff once flat.    

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How to ajust battens in accordance with different windspeeds ?

 

 

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5 hours ago, Gilles29 said:

How to ajust battens in accordance with different windspeeds ?

There's a good baseline for rig setup adjustment (including battens) that Dave developed for light winds. It is recommended as baseline, and then you change shroud/cunningham/outhaul tension as the wind picks up.

It is in the UFO Owners Guide in google docs... around page 11 - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1q1W-dATx_QTq5XPyLWv7PcFnwU4EbmFOBxnck7PQJwU

(With those batten tensions, I find it hard to hoist. Main boltrope is a bit damaged, so that could be the problem. So I put a bit less batten tension. If the winds are light and I need all that batten tension, I capsize the boat on land after the hoist and apply batten tension there.)

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For batten tension I strongly recommend running the light air setup all the time. The boat works fine up the wind range with less batten tension, but if the breeze dies or turns out to be less than expected you're screwed. There's no way with the controls on deck while you're sailing to put enough camber into the sail to foil in marginal conditions. Additionally, the light air setup for batten tension works fine up the wind range. You can flatten the sail with more cunningham and outhaul, and reduced shroud tension. 

-Nick

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Thanks guys

But when Dave said " add about 15 turns to the gaff batten, 10 to the next batten down and 5 to the next batten down to add shape at the head."

does it means no tension on the 4th batten (the bottom one)? 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Gilles29 said:

Thanks guys

But when Dave said " add about 15 turns to the gaff batten, 10 to the next batten down and 5 to the next batten down to add shape at the head."

does it means no tension on the 4th batten (the bottom one)? 

I put light tension (~3-5 turns) on the 4th. 

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The battens come with somewhat random levels of tension out of the box. A few sails actually have way too much batten tension out of the box. You want to get the battens tensioned to the point where they'll just barely stand up on their own. Then you want to jack up the tension at the top of the sail a lot. 

-Nick

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So I've thought and chatted with Dave about what we were doing upwind on Sunday. Here's synthesis of everything we think we know about upwind sailing so far.
 
 
Let us know your thoughts and experiences. Most of this is still a hypothesis to be tested. We'll be sure to let everyone know how the tests turn out.
 
-Nick

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4 hours ago, burritoughs said:
So I've thought and chatted with Dave about what we were doing upwind on Sunday. Here's synthesis of everything we think we know about upwind sailing so far.
 
 
Let us know your thoughts and experiences. Most of this is still a hypothesis to be tested. We'll be sure to let everyone know how the tests turn out.

Before I tell you my experience, I'm going to need my mast back ;-)

Anyway, I have lived and breathed aeronautics just as Dave has high perf sailing, so I will throw my 2c on the theory track.

Essentially, given the excellent discussion on the details of the technique itself, I think there's a simpler explanation. When heading upwind, once you have enough heel...

  • the two critical foils are the sail, and the main foil horizontal
  • with enough heel. the mainsail provides enough lift that it takes the weight of the boat, and unloads the whole mainfoil; this why it suddenly you can feel the trunk slop; in this mode the boat hangs from the sail similar to a windsurfer
  • now the lift vector from the main foil horizontal split into two components for analysis:
    • to windward --> which results in the crabbing - yay
    • up --> which depending on the dynamics either pushes the boat out of the water or heels it further. if it increases heel, then the whole system can oscillate towards equilibrium, because with more heel the vertical component of the vector diminishes. With more heel, also more crabbing.
      This system dynamic might explain the groove in which you're working.
  • main foil vertical has zero participation in this dynamic
  • rudder vertical is heeled and therefore contributes pitch control, as discussed...

 

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What's standard mainsheet thickness? #4 got to my hands with I think 8mm. I changed to a lighter grippier better running 8mm I had in my grabbag but looks and feels super thick and slow-running compared to what I see in videos.

4mm? 6mm? 

I know it's 22ft and must not be any longer :-)

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Factory spec we're using FSE Robline Dinghy Sheet 8mm, running through a 55 mm Ronstan auto-ratchet very nicely. The Ronstan 55 mm auto-ratchet can take as much as 10 mm, but smaller lines will run quicker. As you have hull number #4, you have either 40 mm to 57 mm Harken Ratchet Carbo, which also can take up to 10 mm on the spec sheet, but the line won't run quite as smoothly at the max diameter.

Don't go under 6mm for a mainsheet unless you want to remove a lot of skin from you hands. Some folks even find 6mm uncomfortable.

-Nick

 

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Well, the time has come to let my UFO go.    My job has kept me from sailing, and now Im being transferred overseas for a few years.  The boat has been in the water 3 times, stored in a garage all its life.. I have a galvanized trailer, or you can transport it on your roof.  Boat is located in Gulfport Ms.   Im asking $6500.00.   

Terry

2283139179

tewtops1@yahoo.com20170605_172034.thumb.jpg.a8545cc70261d9ad01e13b92d8d676ac.jpg

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Regarding the above two boats. It is worth noting that we offer full inspection and updating for a very reasonable price for re-homed boats. Hulls require more travel, but the parts can be shipped up to us for a full once over and blessing. We just did it for #4 and it's an easy expansion of our service purview. Couldn't be done if all our capacity wasn't onshore, but since it is, it's super easy. 

In other news, I need to study this more but I think I found a really weird fast gear downwind. Both the modes I'm running right now are (even if they end up not being the very best modes to do) likely to end up being highly popular with UFO masters sailors because they're far more based on cunning than athleticism. I think I may have found the downwind version of king crab mode.

DRC

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