Doug Lord

Steve and Dave Clarks Unidentified Foiling Object

Recommended Posts

Not having stays on a foiling boat is a great safety feature. Like the WASZP. Nothing to crash the body into when the boat suddenly stops.

Indeed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not having stays on a foiling boat is a great safety feature. Like the WASZP. Nothing to crash the body into when the boat suddenly stops.

But I so enjoy those wonderful bruises the shroud leaves. It seems a shame to take away such an integral part of the foiling experience ..To paraphrase Jeremy Clarkson " speed never hurts. Suddenly becoming stationary, it gets you every time . :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Foiling is like flying, which Douglas Adams described as throwing yourself at the ground, and missing.

 

Moth stays are soft compared to the raised foil trailing edges on all those cats, and also those outboard protruding foils on the Quant, and the big French offshore racers.

 

Steve is well aware and has his foils well under the UFO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll add a question to the list. With the high wishbone-like boom, you have what amount to roach below the boom, along the "foot" of the sail, similar to what one sees in windsurfing rigs. In windsurf rigs there is generally a batten down there to help stabilize that lower roach so that it continues to be useful and not just a piece of cloth along for the ride. Obviously there's an attempt at the end-plate, which I'm sure the Clark brainfarm has some experience with from the C Class experiences. But, it's hard to say from the photos and video, but is there something there (a batten, or something equivalent) in the bottom of the sail to help stabilize the corner when you start to crank on the downhaul and sheet (which will relieve any leach tension below the boom-end)?

 

I think it was addressed, but I'm too lazy right now to re-read the thread. Getting through in a tack or gybe requires pushing oneself through the nice hole in the sail at the back, this requires moving some amount of weight backwards on the boat. If you are on foils, will this destabilize the foiling, even just momentarily, or is the hole and weight distribution such that you don't need to move/disturb the balance that much?

 

I'm very much looking forward to seeing the presentation! Can we arrange a live-stream at all? And can we get a time on when the presentation might be happening?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Steve or Dave,

Do you have a sailplan or deckplan you would like to share? It may clear up a lot of our questions.

And ruin this wonderfully entertaining guessing game? Hell no! Don't worry guys. We're doing a long presentation at foiling week which I believe gets posted online aftwards. All will be revealed soon enough.

 

DRC

 

Such a tease, LOL. I am sticking with my Laser mast step concept guess.

 

Lots of breeze down here this weekend along with long stretches of flat water. You should come visit... :o

 

I see the diamond stays as a great way to use a cheap section and control gust bend lay off, any other tweaking opps are a bonus from there.

I think KOJ almost anwsered his own question, then got complicted,then back, above!

Don't listen to this guy; he don't know nothing about Lasers! :P

 

Lasers/ Torch will re inherit all the saining clubs and once again be the only and dominant, logical choice, for high performance off the biatch sailing. :P

 

The real joy of pin head sail racing.

 

So get the squaretop sail for your Torch! B)

 

On a serious note, I admit I am biased to thinking that grassroots sailing/racing needs something just like this UFO. But what do you think? You love big fleets, strict OD, tacking duals and tactical racing, right? The Laser gives me (and you) that. This I suspect is more like my multihull racing. No tacking duels. Its much more about finding pressure and the right sea state.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

attachicon.gifArea52 1 mid size.jpg

 

Wild speculation may now commence.

But a few details.

Weight is 52 Kg.

8 and change meters of sail.

Two T foils, wand on main foil.

Foils retract between the hulls for upright launch and recovery.

Floats upright at the dock.

Closer to the Laser price point than the Waszp price point.

 

Nifty little project which should have commercial legs'

Focus has been on ease of use and handling, not a demonstration of a unique foil configuration. Plenty of original thinking and some unique solutions to achieve performance and cost goals.

 

Check us out in Newport and go for a sail.

SHC

Rule 101 in marketing: Start your own thread: Control the vibe: :)

Best wishes and success for a peoples foiler at an affordable pricepoint.

 

 

 

Only if you BUY AN AD

 

 

 

When they start selling them, they can buy an ad. Until then, the Clarks can use this forum for bloody well whatever they want to. They've earned it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gee Dave-you got to log in to facebook to see anything-taint right, just taint right...... That one small picture looks real good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gee Dave-you got to log in to facebook to see anything-taint right, just taint right...... That one small picture looks real good.

Doug, we all lost the right to play the "I don't facebook" card when facebook started autonomous solar planes to beam facebook into the unelectrified african savannah. I'm no zealot. I held out on getting a smartphone until May of this year, but at some point you just have to quit holding out.

 

However, for all of you who don't care to go through that hassle and stress this instant, here's a 'lil tidbit (hint: try to guess the windspeed by looking at the water).

 

Also, if you really have to stay clear of social media, PM me or my Dad to schedule a spot on the boat at Sail Newport, today through the 11th.

 

DRC

 

 

post-100627-0-14673800-1473333419_thumb.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Steve it looks AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!

Would be interesting to mount and Moth wing (Skiff Works....) on this..... the moth was to flippy but this.......would be a Mini-Me C Class.......

BTW are you severing ties with C Class? I was always following because of you!

cheers

Fonty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave - You tease. Yea I see little ole 160lbs you foiling in that apparently light air while reaching(?). Show me 240 lbs dad doing that, LOL. Seriously, it looks like a cool boat. Just what the doctor ordered. Look forward to more details on range of performance and ease of use from Newport, and pricing/availability thereafter. Hope to see you guys in Naps but y'all are being especially quiet about plans post Newport so I'll wait to see along with the rest.

 

Vadfan - That has been the guessing game of this page of the thread. I am all in at the top of the page guess a Laser mast step tube approach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks so short.of us

Because, you know, moths are terribly long.

 

Dave, looks cool. Any word as to when the presentation that was hinted at earlier might be happening? And whether there will be a recording posted for the rest of us?

 

And lets see some photos of somebody else sailing it! I can't wait to hear from the general sailors who get a chance to try over the next few days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Gee Dave-you got to log in to facebook to see anything-taint right, just taint right...... That one small picture looks real good.

Doug, we all lost the right to play the "I don't facebook" card when facebook started autonomous solar planes to beam facebook into the unelectrified african savannah. I'm no zealot. I held out on getting a smartphone until May of this year, but at some point you just have to quit holding out.

 

However, for all of you who don't care to go through that hassle and stress this instant, here's a 'lil tidbit (hint: try to guess the windspeed by looking at the water).

 

Also, if you really have to stay clear of social media, PM me or my Dad to schedule a spot on the boat at Sail Newport, today through the 11th.

 

DRC

 

 

 

 

Dave- I'm holding out for a while longer......

 

vwzevl.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

main foil vertical in front of the mast...

I know up on foils the balance is different with the vertical barely in the water anyway, but the helm must be highly loaded when lowriding, no ?

Would that depend how "stern-heavy" the boat is? Dragging the ass in low-riding mode would help to compensate (it's not like you'll be fast dragging the foils around anyway).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

main foil vertical in front of the mast...

I know up on foils the balance is different with the vertical barely in the water anyway, but the helm must be highly loaded when lowriding, no ?

Yep that definitely looks radical. I'm pretty curious about the relative areas of mainfoil and rudder, cause I guess it could be pretty different from other foilers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

main foil vertical in front of the mast...

I know up on foils the balance is different with the vertical barely in the water anyway, but the helm must be highly loaded when lowriding, no ?

Yep that definitely looks radical. I'm pretty curious about the relative areas of mainfoil and rudder, cause I guess it could be pretty different from other foilers.

 

i'm curious how it does not end up in irons, especially in any wind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the picture, it looks like the rudder vertical has much more chord length. Not sure how that translates into the discussion of balancing things...

 

Any day now they'll be telling us all how it works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Dave,

 

Great picture, yes it does look awesome. Nice rig. What keeps it upright?

The rig has to be unstayed, because you cannot see any! If there is enough depth in the hull for the forward foil, there also has to be enough to step a mast without stays. Whether it is a tube "laser style" or some other clever system, only time will tell. So much to like about the boat. I do hope the foils are completely different in size width etc than is the norm, for no other reason that the opportunity to see Doug's head explode because the standard 80/20 doesn't stack up :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Dave,

 

Great picture, yes it does look awesome. Nice rig. What keeps it upright?

Question answered. Also pictures of today's test flights coming soon to Fulcrum Speedworks' facebook page. Great day! And here comes another!

 

DRC

post-100627-0-77915600-1473387214_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great pictures which tell us a lot more about the boat. Can't wait to see the foils. The rig is looking good. One small point. From what I hear from the A Class and AC guys, even the fairly small gap you have beteen the bottom of the sail and the deck reduces the efficiency of the "deck sweeper". I am led to believe there is a noticeable advantage to completely closing that gap. maybe not important in a one design, but it you have gone to the trouble of doing it, I assume it is because it is more than following fashion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

main foil vertical in front of the mast...

I know up on foils the balance is different with the vertical barely in the water anyway, but the helm must be highly loaded when lowriding, no ?

Yep that definitely looks radical. I'm pretty curious about the relative areas of mainfoil and rudder, cause I guess it could be pretty different from other foilers.

 

 

if it works, and it seems to do, it sure makes raising/lowering the main foil on the water a lot easier !

so looking at the pictures, the rudder does seem to have more chord than the main foil so maybe it is more highly loaded than a moth rudder, but it is not balanced, the axle is still far forward of the rudder, so that would mean a heavy helm !

 

can't wait to see the presentation, come on foiling week, put it online as soon as it is over please !

if some of you are attending, please ask all our stupid questions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

so looking at the pictures, the rudder does seem to have more chord than the main foil so maybe it is more highly loaded than a moth rudder, but it is not balanced, the axle is still far forward of the rudder, so that would mean a heavy helm !

 

Why does it mean a heavy helm? I would bet a fair amount of money that the helm isn't heavy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once foiling having the foils longitudinally separated is much better than having the CB under the CoE of the rig. Close spaced foils makes steering very sensitive at speed.

Foiling boats have deep rudders and CBs so when low riding foilers usually have heaps of area for steerage. At sub foiling speeds the weight on the helm is meager, at foiling speeds it negligible.

Moth CBs have moved forward nearly a half metre relative to the mast since we started foilIng and even though they are still well aft of the mast, now in really light stuff moths sometimes need to use windward heal to achieve bear away. This will not be possible when low riding the UFO catamaran, but it does appear to have a huge rudder. At least it will not fall over if stuck in irons.

I expect the Clarks will have it worked out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...even the fairly small gap you have beteen the bottom of the sail and the deck reduces the efficiency of the "deck sweeper". I am led to believe there is a noticeable advantage to completely closing that gap..

 

Mainsheet is a major limiting factor by the looks. Its always been a problem with wishbone style rigs. Dangling a block off the wishbone to keep the sheet out of the way is rather clever.

 

There's also a need to ensure the batten end doesn't contact the deck even with max downhaul, otherwise it will wear horrendously.

 

The batten for the deck sweeping element is such a damn obvious solution which I've utterly failed to come up when I've been thinking about the same problem. Really good solutions always look obvious in hindsight.

I wonder, when it comes to usability, whether it would be easier to roll up the sail and keep it nice if the batten were a few inches longer at a slightly shallower angle and went as far as the luff tape. A bottom batten more or less at the leech might also be a help in rolling up the sail quickly and easily on the water and keeping it uncreased in the sailbag. Of course its all money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If that is close to the price of a new Laser, I ain't buying a new Laser.

 

Steady on. Steve said closer to the price of a Laser than the price of a Waszp. He didn't say close to the Laser price. If Dave and Steve could manage to get the factory gate costs of all that boat and gear at all close to those of the Laser then that will be the most impressive part of the whole project. The Laser retails at, what, around USD6K5 I think from a quick web search, and the Waszp USD 11K6 from their website. If you split the difference between the two that's still an awful lot of components for the money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If that is close to the price of a new Laser, I ain't buying a new Laser.

 

Steady on. Steve said closer to the price of a Laser than the price of a Waszp. He didn't say close to the Laser price. If Dave and Steve could manage to get the factory gate costs of all that boat and gear at all close to those of the Laser then that will be the most impressive part of the whole project. The Laser retails at, what, around USD6K5 I think from a quick web search, and the Waszp USD 11K6 from their website. If you split the difference between the two that's still an awful lot of components for the money.

 

I've been told by somebody in Newport that there would be a chat about the boat today and tomorrow 9-noon. Not sure if it's a prepared presentation or a question and answer type session, but with any luck we'll get answers on the easier stuff today, like pricing and whatnot.

 

A new Laser with XD kit is 6k7, it's not clear if that includes all the goodies like a dolly, cover, blade bag, etc. Of course, we don't know whether the UFO price that's "closer to a laser than waszp" includes all the goodies either. And I'd expect that the cover, trolley, and blade bag are a little less generic than those you can find for a laser.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

If that is close to the price of a new Laser, I ain't buying a new Laser.

 

Steady on. Steve said closer to the price of a Laser than the price of a Waszp. He didn't say close to the Laser price. If Dave and Steve could manage to get the factory gate costs of all that boat and gear at all close to those of the Laser then that will be the most impressive part of the whole project. The Laser retails at, what, around USD6K5 I think from a quick web search, and the Waszp USD 11K6 from their website. If you split the difference between the two that's still an awful lot of components for the money.

 

I've been told by somebody in Newport that there would be a chat about the boat today and tomorrow 9-noon. Not sure if it's a prepared presentation or a question and answer type session, but with any luck we'll get answers on the easier stuff today, like pricing and whatnot.

 

A new Laser with XD kit is 6k7, it's not clear if that includes all the goodies like a dolly, cover, blade bag, etc. Of course, we don't know whether the UFO price that's "closer to a laser than waszp" includes all the goodies either. And I'd expect that the cover, trolley, and blade bag are a little less generic than those you can find for a laser.

 

 

IF its all in (boat, bags, dolly, sail, foils) at less than $10K, and assuming your average skill and weight (Masters, LOL) Laser sailor can get in and go foiling, its going to make a lot of people think. Well it would make me think anyway!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I rarely daysail, maybe once every 3 years. Have been looking to add something that provides some thrills to a daysail.

The answer looks like IC so far, this is very interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

looks cool.

smaller than I assumed from the first picture.

But thinking about it (and comparing to other populare foiling classes) it's kinda obvious .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If that is close to the price of a new Laser, I ain't buying a new Laser.

Steady on. Steve said closer to the price of a Laser than the price of a Waszp. He didn't say close to the Laser price. If Dave and Steve could manage to get the factory gate costs of all that boat and gear at all close to those of the Laser then that will be the most impressive part of the whole project. The Laser retails at, what, around USD6K5 I think from a quick web search, and the Waszp USD 11K6 from their website. If you split the difference between the two that's still an awful lot of components for the money.

Until everything is 100% finalized in production, we can't name an exact price. However, I can speak personally to how seriously cost was taken and what objectives were set.

 

The word "affordable" is often waved about meaninglessly in boat design. The bulk of American small boat sailing fits the condition of less than USD7k per seat and that's a basic function of income distribution. The "people will find the money" argument is nonsense.

 

We have fought tooth and nail for progress towards our cost targets. I set the general goal of 5k retail with the expectation of failing to achieve it. the logic was that Olympic bronze medalists are made of people who tried to get gold. We did not hit 5k at all, but I am proud of setting that goal and think it gave us focus and freed us from a few normal mistakes that are easy to make.

 

If we got anywhere even remotely near 10k, I would have pulled the plug. My generation is broke and our sport is shrinking. Boats must simultaneously lose real cost and gain accessible performance if the sport of sailing is going to survive.

 

DRC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

If that is close to the price of a new Laser, I ain't buying a new Laser.

Steady on. Steve said closer to the price of a Laser than the price of a Waszp. He didn't say close to the Laser price. If Dave and Steve could manage to get the factory gate costs of all that boat and gear at all close to those of the Laser then that will be the most impressive part of the whole project. The Laser retails at, what, around USD6K5 I think from a quick web search, and the Waszp USD 11K6 from their website. If you split the difference between the two that's still an awful lot of components for the money.

Until everything is 100% finalized in production, we can't name an exact price. However, I can speak personally to how seriously cost was taken and what objectives were set.

 

The word "affordable" is often waved about meaninglessly in boat design. The bulk of American small boat sailing fits the condition of less than USD7k per seat and that's a basic function of income distribution. The "people will find the money" argument is nonsense.

 

We have fought tooth and nail for progress towards our cost targets. I set the general goal of 5k retail with the expectation of failing to achieve it. the logic was that Olympic bronze medalists are made of people who tried to get gold. We did not hit 5k at all, but I am proud of setting that goal and think it gave us focus and freed us from a few normal mistakes that are easy to make.

 

If we got anywhere even remotely near 10k, I would have pulled the plug. My generation is broke and our sport is shrinking. Boats must simultaneously lose real cost and gain accessible performance if the sport of sailing is going to survive.

 

DRC

 

Where is the "like" button. :)

 

Please do tell if you are coming to the Naps show. I did not plan to attend this year but certainly would if this was there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like? I think I'm in love. :wub:

 

So how athletic must one be for this boat in say 15-20 knots? What kind of sheet loads? I'm old. My knees and elbows hurt before I even go sailing. I like to be able to come back in not hurting much more, if any.

 

I'd also like to see some heavyweight sailing pictures or videos, as I'm at about 210lbs/95kg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

So how athletic must one be for this boat in say 15-20 knots?

14249814_1746224778959898_54544766386296

 

It looks fairly windy in this pic. Would you like a backrest? :wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think most (all?) of the photos we've seen so far are of the boat reaching around on foils. What are the chances of photos or video of it foiling to windward. Racing will be a lot less spectacular if it's low ride up, foiling down. I can't imagine that the Clarks just made a reaching toy.

 

Dave! What happened at the presentation thing today? What has been revealed to those in Newport but nobody else knows yet?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

...even the fairly small gap you have beteen the bottom of the sail and the deck reduces the efficiency of the "deck sweeper". I am led to believe there is a noticeable advantage to completely closing that gap..

 

Mainsheet is a major limiting factor by the looks. Its always been a problem with wishbone style rigs. Dangling a block off the wishbone to keep the sheet out of the way is rather clever.

 

There's also a need to ensure the batten end doesn't contact the deck even with max downhaul, otherwise it will wear horrendously.

 

The batten for the deck sweeping element is such a damn obvious solution which I've utterly failed to come up when I've been thinking about the same problem. Really good solutions always look obvious in hindsight.

I wonder, when it comes to usability, whether it would be easier to roll up the sail and keep it nice if the batten were a few inches longer at a slightly shallower angle and went as far as the luff tape. A bottom batten more or less at the leech might also be a help in rolling up the sail quickly and easily on the water and keeping it uncreased in the sailbag. Of course its all money.

 

I have been watching the A's as I am thinking of making the change and they have been using a batten like that for a year now. Theirs goes to the luff, meaning tension and batten stiffness can help add shape. You have to take the batten out when rolling the sail. The A also gets around the problem of deck rub by having the tack and downhaul separated. This means that you can get the foot very close to the deck at all times and still use the downhaul.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

it's worth digging around here a little

 

http://www.sailingshot.com

Nice find. Nice additional details on the build, mast step and especially the foils post capsize and turtle.

 

Quick. Somebody tell them that they fitted the foils the wrong way around. Surely the rear foil was meant to go up front . Didn't they red the memo about all foilers having an 80/20 load split? ;)

 

So there does seem to be one downside to the design. I think it will turtle very easily and that could well be the default mode when capsizing. The one benefit is it makes it less likely that the boat will be blown away from the sailor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

it's worth digging around here a little

 

http://www.sailingshot.com

Nice find. Nice additional details on the build, mast step and especially the foils post capsize and turtle.

 

Quick. Somebody tell them that they fitted the foils the wrong way around. Surely the rear foil was meant to go up front . Didn't they red the memo about all foilers having an 80/20 load split? ;)

 

So there does seem to be one downside to the design. I think it will turtle very easily and that could well be the default mode when capsizing. The one benefit is it makes it less likely that the boat will be blown away from the sailor.

 

 

Theres so much you don't know! One of the first incarnations of Icarus-the flying Tornado used a 4 foil configuration with-you guessed it- 80% of the load on the aft foils and 20% on the forward foils.......! (see page 28 and page 73 of "Hydrofoil Sailing")

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Come on Doug. Surely even you can see that was a joke! Maybe British humour doesn't translate that well, but it was just as much a comment on how the Clark's had done something different. Let's not get caught up with a silly debate when it is such a cool project.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bora is there on his new moth but has promised us a review of the ufo.

 

But as Dave says, this UFO is about accessible performance. What Bora (an experienced Moth sailor) has to say is really not all that interesting then. Instead tell me what you or some other weekend warrior who has never foiled before has to say after sailing it.

 

No intent to throw stones here but while I have a great deal of interest in the boat I have zero interest in Bora's opinion of it. It actually sends the exact opposite signal that I would think Dave and Steve want to send. Who is the boat aimed at? Folks like Bora? Or you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Bora is there on his new moth but has promised us a review of the ufo.

 

But as Dave says, this UFO is about accessible performance. What Bora (an experienced Moth sailor) has to say is really not all that interesting then. Instead tell me what you or some other weekend warrior who has never foiled before has to say after sailing it.

 

No intent to throw stones here but while I have a great deal of interest in the boat I have zero interest in Bora's opinion of it. It actually sends the exact opposite signal that I would think Dave and Steve want to send. Who is the boat aimed at? Folks like Bora? Or you?

 

At the same time, Bora has plenty of time in boats that foil, he presumably has a feeling for how easy/hard it is and whether it feels stable and controllable or on the edge and twitchy. Most reviews from a first-time foiler are probably going to be a lot about swimming as it seems to be part of the game, especially at the early stages. But it does look like most people can get it at least starting to go on their first ride from the photos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been told that the presentation was recorded, hopefully Dave can arrange the recording to go up online. Apparently there's some good bits of information in there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If this boat retails at $9K or under, which appears possible from the above posts, that would just completely up-end everything. I had been planning on purchasing my dream-boat, an RS700, next summer. But if I could buy this instead, and at ~ 3/5ths the cost - well that kind of changes everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If this boat retails at $9K or under, which appears possible from the above posts, that would just completely up-end everything. I had been planning on purchasing my dream-boat, an RS700, next summer. But if I could buy this instead, and at ~ 3/5ths the cost - well that kind of changes everything.

So until the video of the presentation is up there's only here-say evidence of it, but I'm told that at the presentation Dave said he could confirm that it would retail for <8000USD. It certainly sounds like a winner.

 

I guess they have to get production set up and rolling, but it'll be interesting to see how much traction the boat gets.

 

Other interesting bits I've been fed:

-Packing density not far off that of an opti, you can get something like 35 of them in a container and of course, as shown in the photos it's small enough that you could rack store it easily

-The turtling is intentional, but apparently it's easy to right it from a turtle and very stable upside down

-There was talk that they are already looking at possibilities for international distribution

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The photos of the FAB sailing cannot be used in considering how well the boat foils, because the boat is heeling too much. Although sometimes simpler said than done, you have to sail foilers upright or heeled to windward. I am not sure there is any foiler that will get up while being sailed with leeward heel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How comfortable is it to hike with your feet above your waist - do you want to slide off all the time, or do the stomach muscles just tell you to keep sitting up straighter?

One of the good things about the moth, is that the wing angle means when the legs get to horizontal you are well and truly leaned to windward - probably too far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How comfortable is it to hike with your feet above your waist - do you want to slide off all the time, or do the stomach muscles just tell you to keep sitting up straighter?

One of the good things about the moth, is that the wing angle means when the legs get to horizontal you are well and truly leaned to windward - probably too far.

I had the same concern when I saw Dad drawing the hull. But it's weirdly comfortable. Ever put your feet up on your desk? It's sort of like that. Get locked in on the staps with the deck supporting your heels calves and hips (pretty damn ergonomically) and just slouch out there. Loose wraps make it a bit more adventurous, of course, but that's easy to avoid.

 

DRC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Bora is there on his new moth but has promised us a review of the ufo.

 

But as Dave says, this UFO is about accessible performance. What Bora (an experienced Moth sailor) has to say is really not all that interesting then. Instead tell me what you or some other weekend warrior who has never foiled before has to say after sailing it.

 

No intent to throw stones here but while I have a great deal of interest in the boat I have zero interest in Bora's opinion of it. It actually sends the exact opposite signal that I would think Dave and Steve want to send. Who is the boat aimed at? Folks like Bora? Or you?

 

At the same time, Bora has plenty of time in boats that foil, he presumably has a feeling for how easy/hard it is and whether it feels stable and controllable or on the edge and twitchy. Most reviews from a first-time foiler are probably going to be a lot about swimming as it seems to be part of the game, especially at the early stages. But it does look like most people can get it at least starting to go on their first ride from the photos.

 

I don't know. Maybe.

 

Don't want this to sound negative. Its not intended that way and this is a project that seems to have so much going for it if it is as described.

 

But so far (I think?) we have only seen pics and videos of folks who already know how to sail foiling boats, foiling the UFO on a beam reach. Of course Bora can do that.

 

But if your typical never foiled before dinghy sailor can't get in and do same then where is the accessible part?

 

Anyway continue to hope it is what its been said to be but while I have nothing at all against him I really don't think that Bora is the guy that demonstrates that it is. Somebody like Gouv (or anyone like him) is. IMHO.

 

Got it on the FAB, LOL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The photos of the FAB sailing cannot be used in considering how well the boat foils, because the boat is heeling too much. Although sometimes simpler said than done, you have to sail foilers upright or heeled to windward. I am not sure there is any foiler that will get up while being sailed with leeward heel.

 

Not right......

 

 

30b3br4.jpg

 

 

2ry1rt4.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.

 

But so far (I think?) we have only seen pics and videos of folks who already know how to sail foiling boats, foiling the UFO on a beam reach. Of course Bora can do that.

 

But if your typical never foiled before dinghy sailor can't get in and do same then where is the accessible part?

 

 

I assume more of your aborted foil liftoffs and miscalculations will result in a landing that doesn't involve swimmimg than it would with one of your Moth types.

May even be able to uncleat the sheet, lay down on the deack and have a think about if you are really cut out for this foiling thing for a bit while you mentally/physically recover.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But so far (I think?) we have only seen pics and videos of folks who already know how to sail foiling boats, foiling the UFO on a beam reach. Of course Bora can do that.

But if your typical never foiled before dinghy sailor can't get in and do same then where is the accessible part?

If you think about it you need both.

 

I think as a potential owner you really want to know "Once I am an experienced foil sailor will this boat be satisfactory?". Because if it were not then half the point is gone. No point in having a foiling boat that you can launch and rig anywhere if its not satisfying to sail once its out on the water. So someone like Bora who knows very well what well setup foiling boats are like to sail can tell you about that.

 

I submit that only if its fundamentally a nice foiling boat to sail do you want to worry about how accessible it is for a non-foil experienced sailor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

But so far (I think?) we have only seen pics and videos of folks who already know how to sail foiling boats, foiling the UFO on a beam reach. Of course Bora can do that.

But if your typical never foiled before dinghy sailor can't get in and do same then where is the accessible part?

If you think about it you need both.

 

I think as a potential owner you really want to know "Once I am an experienced foil sailor will this boat be satisfactory?". Because if it were not then half the point is gone. No point in having a foiling boat that you can launch and rig anywhere if its not satisfying to sail once its out on the water. So someone like Bora who knows very well what well setup foiling boats are like to sail can tell you about that.

 

I submit that only if its fundamentally a nice foiling boat to sail do you want to worry about how accessible it is for a non-foil experienced sailor.

 

Yea, that's fair. Agree. Want to know both. Absolutely.

 

Was hoping though with a 4 day event in a place like Newport they could have found some dinghy sailor who was interested and showed that yes they could do this (go foiling on a UFO) over 4 days!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve, suggested that anyone interested come on down and give it a shot earlier in this thread.

 

attachicon.gifArea52 1 mid size.jpg

 

Wild speculation may now commence.

But a few details.

Weight is 52 Kg.

8 and change meters of sail.

Two T foils, wand on main foil.

Foils retract between the hulls for upright launch and recovery.

Floats upright at the dock.

Closer to the Laser price point than the Waszp price point.

 

Nifty little project which should have commercial legs'

Focus has been on ease of use and handling, not a demonstration of a unique foil configuration. Plenty of original thinking and some unique solutions to achieve performance and cost goals.