Doug Lord

Steve and Dave Clarks Unidentified Foiling Object

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21 minutes ago, Gilles29 said:

20190619_205441.jpg

Rudder looks a little bit forward of middle. I would have it at least as far aft of middle as you have it forward of middle in the conditions you described. Given the that the picture you showed had the boom very close to clearing the rudder vertical that should be the extra bit of clearance you want.

If the issue remains, the simple solution is to leave your outhaul slack while coming to and leaving the beach. That will allow the boom to hang down and keep it out of the way of the rudder. Once the rudder is down you can put on appropriate outhaul tension and foil away. As I noted earlier, I've done this a lot just to keep the rig depowered and easy to control near obstacles like the shore.

-Nick

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Hey team, do any of you store your boats at a club?  Can I store the boat with the mast on and the rudder and main foils installed?  I have hull and foil covers.  Any other covers recommended?  Any concerns about the UV / salt air beating the mast and foil struts will take?  

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3 hours ago, DerekF said:

Hey team, do any of you store your boats at a club?  Can I store the boat with the mast on and the rudder and main foils installed?  I have hull and foil covers.  Any other covers recommended?  Any concerns about the UV / salt air beating the mast and foil struts will take?  

Derek:

I leave my UFO on the beach on its dolly with a hull cover on. it.  The foils are in place, raised up and latched.   It was outside from May through October last year, and has been out since mid May of this year.   I have not seen any degradation of the mast or foils.   The black anodization on the struts is looking a little oxidized, but that is purely cosmetic, and may be my imagination..   Over the course of many years, leaving the mast up could shorten the life of the mast, the sail track or the plexus that bonds the track to the mast.   But I find the convenience of rigging up and sailing in 10 minutes to be worth it.  I sail a lot more this way, so I suppose I'm more likely to break the mast sailing it than having it last long enough to deteriorate.   As they say, it's better to burn out than to fade away!

My only advice is to make sure you tie your UFO down when storing it with the mast up.  It is light, and it will get blown over when a thunderstorm passes by.   Ask me how I know...

 

Doug 

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Doug, thanks for relaying your experience.  I absolutely relate to maximizing the pleasure to pain ratio on sailing even if means replacing parts a bit more often.  

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On 6/24/2019 at 6:07 PM, DerekF said:

Hey team, do any of you store your boats at a club?  Can I store the boat with the mast on and the rudder and main foils installed?  I have hull and foil covers.  Any other covers recommended?  Any concerns about the UV / salt air beating the mast and foil struts will take?  

Same here. I had the mast covered with extra uv protection, and I made a wand crane cover at home from sunbrella cuttings. 

Sail track, ropes will need replacing more often, a bit more salt damage over time... but I'm out sailing in about 15m. 

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In my first UFO sailings I found the hiking straps a little too tight, so I release them by replacing the straps with longer one.

But now I find they are too loosen... What's your feedback about your hiking straps?  Some  difficulties getting feet in them, or to get out quickly? 

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1 hour ago, Gilles29 said:

In my first UFO sailings I found the hiking straps a little too tight, so I release them by replacing the straps with longer one.

But now I find they are too loosen... What's your feedback about your hiking straps?  Some  difficulties getting feet in them, or to get out quickly? 

I have the same issue. If you replace them, you only need the replacement to be a tiny bit longer than the standard. Anything longer is a mess.

Fulcrum folks - Dave and Nick - swear that they are long enough, and that you shouldn't use booties. I find that I need booties for safety (Miami sandbars have prickly sharp stuff in them, and a turtled UFO is incredibly slippery). Even without booties I find the standard straps to be a challenge to release from -- for big-footed/big ankled folks like me, the maneuver involves rotating your legs which in a fast capsize is not something I can reliably do.

An idea I have not tried yet is to trim/remove the foam pad right under the strap. Another idea is to tuck in a cutting from a pool noodle.

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1 hour ago, Gilles29 said:

In my first UFO sailings I found the hiking straps a little too tight, so I release them by replacing the straps with longer one.

But now I find they are too loosen... What's your feedback about your hiking straps?  Some  difficulties getting feet in them, or to get out quickly? 

I  had the same experience, but I stuck it out and find that the straps are fine now.  I don't know if they stretched or if my expectations changed.  I do wear booties, I prefer the small footies for protection getting on and off the beach but one of them was lost in an epic foiling gybe fail last fall.  It may well be in orbit now.  So I'm using my Ronstan dinghy booties, which are clunkier than I'd like but seem to work until I replace the footies.  Dave and Nick recommended using the "far" straps in lighter air so you are not so far out.  I have not been able to master that.  I have size 11 feet, and with my feet under the far straps, held up by the center ridge of the boat, when the boat capsizes to windward, I feel like I am locked into this thing that is collapsing on top of me.  I seem to always be able to wriggle out (I'm still alive to write this post, aren't i?) but I find the experience quite terrifying.  

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I wear dinghy booties too and as Champlain Sailor, I find terrifying to be locked into my straps when capsizing...

So I modified them as showing in the pics. I replaced the supports by bigger supports made of plexiglass (100mm long)

Martin, have you possibility to send some pics of your straps

20190626_211654.jpg

20190626_211728.jpg

20190626_211735.jpg

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With the standard straps, I couldn't get my feet (size 10) under a strap without reaching over and holding it up when inserting the first foot. I got better with practice but it was still difficult so I modified the straps by adding a second standard support at the front of each strap, tensioned forward with small diameter line to the attachment points of the cunningham blocks. It helps a bit but I may try Gilles29's modification to see if I like that better.

IMG_4873.JPG

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Is there an event hole on the UFO's hull, to avoid overpressure ?

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4 hours ago, Gilles29 said:

Is there an event hole on the UFO's hull, to avoid overpressure ?

Yes. Should be on the underside. There's a bulbous part her aft of the mast. There should be a tiny hole there drilled horizontally (aft to fore).

Early boats didn't have it. Yours is new, right? Should be there, unless it's changed location...

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I think the hole is ok like this pic 

20190703_112059.jpg

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UFO FOR SALE.....Best offer. See classified in dinghy section.

Like new used 6 times. Hip replacement forces sale or I would never sell.

Every factory upgrade available including Gen. 3 spreader bracket just released.

GET A GREAT DEAL AND GO TO THE NEXT CLINIC LATER THIS MONTH!!.

I learned more in 1 day at the owners clinic than I would have all summer!

 

 

43855073629.jpg

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On 11/16/2017 at 8:21 PM, Charlie P Mayer said:

The main foil generates downforce when the wand is fully forward.  If the wand adjustment is incorrect that won't happen. 

Ensure that you have a tiny gap between the actuating rod and the main foil flap when the wand is fully forward. 

You don't want any pre-loaded downforce on the actuator. 

Adjustment is via threaded rod in the square tube holding the wand.

Hi

On Hull 252 I am  having trouble getting the push rod set up without downforce .

With the pull rod as long as It will go before the pivot of the aft bellcrank starts to impinge on the push rod and with the wand at full bungee retraction I still have to press the  push rod down about 2 mm to get the pin holes to line up.

Is this too much pressure on the flap? Certainly no gap.

Is the push rod too long?

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14 hours ago, stuartbutton said:

On Hull 252 I am  having trouble getting the push rod set up without downforce .

With the pull rod as long as It will go before the pivot of the aft bellcrank starts to impinge on the push rod and with the wand at full bungee retraction I still have to press the  push rod down about 2 mm to get the pin holes to line up.

Is this too much pressure on the flap? Certainly no gap.

Is the push rod too long?

Birdie told me that the wand/crank/bellcrank/foil/flap assembly leaves the factory adjusted to be "just right" for each boat. So for a new boat -- where you haven't been tweaking things, or replaced a part -- a 2mm gap or a pushed-down flap might mean that you forgot a piece (ie: a washer) somewhere in the assembly.

If you are confident you have assembled the LEGO right, then it is time to adjust length of the rod that runs along the crane. It is threaded at both ends. You'll want to pull one of the bellcranks out, and start turning the threaded metal piece to shorten the effective length of the rod inside the crane.

It'll be a bit of trial and error, and narrowing down towards the right length. Count the turns in each step. It's always important to tighten the top nut when testing the whole assembly.

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1 hour ago, martin.langhoff said:

shorten the effective length of the rod inside the crane.

Hi Martin

The issue is lengthening the pull rod in the crane. In order to raise the push rod pivot point (to give a higher push rod start point) the pull rod needs to be lengthened to rotate the push rod pivot point higher on the aft bell crank.

I just wanted to confirm that the correct push rod setup is just touching the flap at full bungee retraction on the wand.

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34 minutes ago, stuartbutton said:

The issue is lengthening the pull rod in the crane. In order to raise the push rod pivot point (to give a higher push rod start point) the pull rod needs to be lengthened to rotate the push rod pivot point higher on the aft bell crank.

I just wanted to confirm that the correct push rod setup is just touching the flap at full bungee retraction on the wand.

Ah, I probably got it backwards :-) -- "just/almost touching when the wand is not touching the water -- and pulled back fully be the bungee" is the right setup.

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Hello all.  My name is Lee Skidmore and in about a month I will be invading north Idaho with a brand new UFO.  I wanted to introduce myself and say thank you to everyone for the wealth of information this thread contains.  I am fairly new to sailing and currently have a 1970 McGregor VentureCat 15 that I've rebuilt and been sailing around for the last 5 years - though due to busy life it's only seen the water less than a dozen times.  That said, I got it ripping in some hard wind a few weeks ago and I got bit hard with how much fun hiked out single handed sailing is and wanted something a little faster and more stable.  The VC15 is similar to the old Hobie 16's with the banana hulls so pitch poling is always a bit of a concern.  I generally sail on Lake Pend Oreille where the water is always cold, winds vary, and the waves tend to be choppy.  But it's a big lake with great mountain scenery.

Outside of sailing I've spent a lot of time racing cars, playing hard in the mountains, and a lot of kayaking (lake and whitewater).  Additionally, I've got a BS in aerospace engineering, spent 12yrs in aerospace composites, own a small composite shop, and have an incessant need to tinker.

Again, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for all the information that's been shared, the UFO owner's guide, and general help this thread has been to me already.  I hope that once I have my UFO and get to playing with it, I'll be able to contribute something back to the community.

Thank you,

Lee

 

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I had a little problem today, after walking on my wand... doses someone knows what kind of glue I can use to make a good repair ?

20190712_164056_001.jpg

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I will defer to the Fulcrum team if they have an answer. 

However, if it were me and I didn't want to spend a lot of money for an adhesive I'd look toward the 3M 5200 fastset.  You can find it at some of the local hardware stores or automotive stores sometimes.  It's made to be below waterline, takes a lot of shock abuse, and has a pretty good hold.  Note that if you use it, do not use alcohol for surface prep as it'll interfere with the curing process so I'd use acetone as the degreaser after scuffing/cleaning everything good with some 220.

That'd be my .02 at least.

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2 hours ago, Gilles29 said:

I had a little problem today, after walking on my wand... doses someone knows what kind of glue I can use to make a good repair ?

20190712_164056_001.jpg

After a bit of sanding, any marine grade epoxy you have at hand. I'm no expert, but IMO thickened g/flex will be best. If you plan to step on it again  make a fillet with the excess on the border for extra hold :-)

(edit: also, don't stop sailing over a missing paddle. it won't be ideal, or pretty, but the end of the stick tracks the water surface alright.)

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On 6/5/2019 at 4:42 PM, martin.langhoff said:

There's a nice document, a bit rambling but has a ton of good info. 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1q1W-dATx_QTq5XPyLWv7PcFnwU4EbmFOBxnck7PQJwU/edit?usp=sharing

Also - try to get the batten tension video from Nick.

This is SOOOO helpful. Turns out I was doing EVERYTHING WRONG. At least I have nowhere to go but UP now :)

AND THIS ONE IS EVEN BETTER: Unofficial UFO Owner's Guide https://bit.ly/2KaU5Yp

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4 hours ago, Gilles29 said:

I had a little problem today, after walking on my wand... doses someone knows what kind of glue I can use to make a good repair ?

 

I'd use West Epoxy, mostly because that's what I have sitting in the shop ready to use.  I'd imagine that the 5200 would work, as would G Flex or Plexus.  I don't  think this a particularly critical bond, it doesn't support a ton of weight and does not need to seal water tight.  So find some 2 part epoxy (any 2 part epoxy) stick 'em together, and get back out on the water.

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5 hours ago, Skid said:

Hello all.  My name is Lee Skidmore and in about a month I will be invading north Idaho with a brand new UFO. 

 

Welcome Lee!   It sounds like you have the right qualifications to be a UFO pilot (you like to go fast and you don't mind fixing things...).   I've only passed through your neck of the woods briefly, but you do indeed live in  a beautiful setting to sail.   Good luck getting set up and going.  Feel free to post questions or photos of your successes or crashes!

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A UFO has landed in Southeastern North Carolina.

After UFO 0017 was used for an early demo, it sat around not being used (but it was stored inside).

I got lucky and stumbled across an add for it at a good price and location.  Turned out the owner was headed my way and volunteered to deliver the boat from Cape Hatteras to its new home in Wilmington NC :D.

It was in pretty good shape.  I did some minor fixes:

  1. The adjuster wheel for the rudder rake had too much slop.  I made some shim washers from a milk jug.  The surface in front of the adjuster wheel is not square to the adjuster rod.  I have a plan for making it more true at a later date.
  2. The the lower gudgeon hole was way oversized and the rudder tolerances did not allow the normal bushing installation.  The rudder opening is just big enough to slip over the gudgeons with zero room for the flange on a bushing between the gudgeon and the rudder bracket (the part that looks like a washer in the photo in the Owner's guide.  It came with one bushing in the lower rudder bracket (inserted from below) and a bushing with the flange cut off for the lower gudgeon hole).   I did a re-work that looks good and seems to work like it should (negligible slop in any direction).  If It works out OK, I will provide more details.
  3. I also noted a ~1/16" deep dent in the main foil flap caused by the end of the pushrod (boy the diameter of that rod is smaller than I expected) I ground out the material around the dent to make a depression the diameter of a dime to be filled back in with epoxy / chopped fiberglass. I found that the dent was pretty much just damage to a thick layer of gel coat.

For now, I took and old beater 4' x 6' utility trailer and set it up as a UFO trailer.  Conditions look good for a first sail tomorrow.     

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On 7/12/2019 at 1:26 PM, martin.langhoff said:

After a bit of sanding, any marine grade epoxy you have at hand. I'm no expert, but IMO thickened g/flex will be best. If you plan to step on it again  make a fillet with the excess on the border for extra hold :-)

(edit: also, don't stop sailing over a missing paddle. it won't be ideal, or pretty, but the end of the stick tracks the water surface alright.)

One important note, epoxy does not stick very well to cured plexus. (We use Plexus MA 320 to glue the paddles on the wands in the shop.) So you need to be sure to remove all the old glue (plexus) prior to surface prepping and re-gluing with thickened epoxy. Any thickened epoxy will work. 

Also, 5200 is not a good call for gluing back on the paddle. Although it may work for awhile, it’s earned the nickname “f**k the next guy” for a reason. At the end of the day 5200 is really a sealant, not an adhesive, and while it sometimes works as an adhesive temporarily—I’ve committed my fair share of sins with 5200–epoxy or more plexus is the long term, durable solution.

That being said 5200 works well for its intended purpose, sealing all the screws holding on your deck hardware. Use it for that and expect it to fail in more strenuous applications. Even for deck hardware expect to replace the sealant after years of use.

-Nick

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Nick,

Thank you for the input and correction. 

I was not aware that 5200 had that reputation within the marine world.  We've been installing CF roof panels for many years in dedicated track cars with no issues and it's held up to chassis flex and CTE differences great.  We do have a large bond area though.

In the aerospace sector I'm used to using various Hysols (9309, 9460, 9396, etc) and plenty of 3M 2216 for secondary structure and some primary.  Have you run into any issues with these?  These are what I typically use in our shop along with MA832 and will be in my quiver for when I need to fix something on my UFO.

Thank you.

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Anyone In Europe interested in a 3-times sailed ( like new ) UFO from Holland ?  Thank you.

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12 hours ago, burritoughs said:

Also, 5200 is not a good call for gluing back on the paddle. Although it may work for awhile, it’s earned the nickname “f**k the next guy” for a reason. At the end of the day 5200 is really a sealant, not an adhesive, and while it sometimes works as an adhesive temporarily—I’ve committed my fair share of sins with 5200–epoxy or more plexus is the long term, durable solution.

I thought 5200 earned that nickname because if you use it to seal deck hardware, the next guy was not going to get it off in one piece.  Tracks sealed to the deck with 5200 will rip the gel coat up when you go to remove them.  Screws sealed with 5200 will not back out, they will need to be drilled out.  For that reason, I have always been told that any hardware you expect to ever need to remove, use 4200.  You are correct, it is designed as a sealant, not an adhesive, but it has some seriously strong adhesive properties.   And I agree, it is not the ideal media for this repair, but it might work if it is all you had lying around.   And we have veered off the UFO thread into the maintenance thread, so that's all I have for now....

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On 6/26/2019 at 3:38 PM, Gilles29 said:

I wear dinghy booties too and as Champlain Sailor, I find terrifying to be locked into my straps when capsizing...

So I modified them as showing in the pics. I replaced the supports by bigger supports made of plexiglass (100mm long)

Martin, have you possibility to send some pics of your straps

20190626_211654.jpg

20190626_211728.jpg

20190626_211735.jpg

Very nice!!

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Can someone please post a photo or two of the nylon locking screw on the rudder, and the fixed side of the rudder downhaul.  I was unaware of the lock screw, so my downhaul goes to the vertical piece with the oval cutout on the tiller/rudder bracket.  I suspect this was drilled for the lock screw, and I'm not sure where to attach the downhaul.  There is no hole on the top surface of the rudder bracket.

While shooting, can I see the new carbon spreader bracket?  My hull is FSXU00111C1118, which has the stamped bracket.  Haven't been out with it nearly enough, but have thought that the stamped bracket seemed like a weak link...

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On 7/14/2019 at 9:32 PM, burritoughs said:

One important note, epoxy does not stick very well to cured plexus. (We use Plexus MA 320 to glue the paddles on the wands in the shop.) So you need to be sure to remove all the old glue (plexus) prior to surface prepping and re-gluing with thickened epoxy. Any thickened epoxy will work. 

Also, 5200 is not a good call for gluing back on the paddle. Although it may work for awhile, it’s earned the nickname “f**k the next guy” for a reason. At the end of the day 5200 is really a sealant, not an adhesive, and while it sometimes works as an adhesive temporarily—I’ve committed my fair share of sins with 5200–epoxy or more plexus is the long term, durable solution.

That being said 5200 works well for its intended purpose, sealing all the screws holding on your deck hardware. Use it for that and expect it to fail in more strenuous applications. Even for deck hardware expect to replace the sealant after years of use.

-Nick

5200 is a tenacious adhesive.   I actually avoid using it strictly as a sealant, opting for 4200 or 4000 as I can be sure to not have any problems releasing hardware and fasteners in the future...ie the adhesive qualities of 5200 are generally a hassle if all you’re looking for is a sealant.  I will use 5200 for seacocks and other critical below the waterline penetrations.   In the application discussed here it’s not useful because it’s of the combination of bonding area (lack of) and load cycling.    Poor choice for the application, but calling 5200 merely a sealant is inaccurate 

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15 hours ago, davs2rt said:

Can someone please post a photo or two of the nylon locking screw on the rudder, and the fixed side of the rudder downhaul.  I was unaware of the lock screw, so my downhaul goes to the vertical piece with the oval cutout on the tiller/rudder bracket.  I suspect this was drilled for the lock screw, and I'm not sure where to attach the downhaul.  There is no hole on the top surface of the rudder bracket.

While shooting, can I see the new carbon spreader bracket?  My hull is FSXU00111C1118, which has the stamped bracket.  Haven't been out with it nearly enough, but have thought that the stamped bracket seemed like a weak link...

If no one gets to it before I do, I'll post a few photos later this week.  However, the rudder downhaul is rigged as follows.  The end of the downhaul goes through a small hole drilled in the port side vertical member of the rudder bracket.  As you guessed, this is the piece with the big oval cutout.  You should find a small hole drilled at the upper, forward end of this bracket.  Put the end of the line through, tie a figure 8 on the inside of the bracket, and pull it tight.  Then take the loose end of the line, run it through the large eye on the top of the rudder blade, and then run the loose end down to the small eye that is mounted on the starboard side of the tiller.  From there, the loose end passes forward, through the cleat.  

Some early boats had downhaul lines that were not long enough to cleat when the rudder was all the way up.  The small fairlead on the tiller also eats through the outer jacket of the downhaul line, I've gone through 2 of them already, and just replaced my downhaul with a solid dynema line with no outer jacket.  I need to hit that small fairlead with some sandpaper as well to eliminate the sawing action that the fairlead has.    

Once the rudder is down, you can use the hook in front of the cleat and the disc on the port side of the tiller to wrap the tail around a few times to keep it out of the way.   If you have hull number 118, you may or may not have gotten a set screw from the factory.  I am hull 93, and I didn't.  Fulcrum will send you the nylon screw, and you can drill and tap a hole in the vertical bracket to take it.  I drilled mine on the starboard vertical member of the rudder bracket, roughly opposite the hole on the port side for the downhaul line termination.  I find it works OK, not great.

I hope that helps, and if not, I can post photos later this week.

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1 hour ago, Champlain Sailor said:

The small fairlead on the tiller also eats through the outer jacket of the downhaul line, I've gone through 2 of them already, and just replaced my downhaul with a solid dynema line with no outer jacket.  I need to hit that small fairlead with some sandpaper as well to eliminate the sawing action that the fairlead has.

I've gone through a couple as well. The simple workaround is to watch for wear, and shorten just a tad at the stopper knot, so you change the spot that gets the wear.

For a longer term solution  I am tempted to add a dedicated hold-down line using a soft shackle (just a trucker's hitch and a plastic ball), or a big strap using velcro. So when it's fully down the dedicated line or strap handles the up-down jiggly abuse.

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11 hours ago, Champlain Sailor said:

If no one gets to it before I do, I'll post a few photos later this week.  However, the rudder downhaul is rigged as follows.  The end of the downhaul goes through a small hole drilled in the port side vertical member of the rudder bracket.  As you guessed, this is the piece with the big oval cutout.  You should find a small hole drilled at the upper, forward end of this bracket.  Put the end of the line through, tie a figure 8 on the inside of the bracket, and pull it tight.  Then take the loose end of the line, run it through the large eye on the top of the rudder blade, and then run the loose end down to the small eye that is mounted on the starboard side of the tiller.  From there, the loose end passes forward, through the cleat.  

Some early boats had downhaul lines that were not long enough to cleat when the rudder was all the way up.  The small fairlead on the tiller also eats through the outer jacket of the downhaul line, I've gone through 2 of them already, and just replaced my downhaul with a solid dynema line with no outer jacket.  I need to hit that small fairlead with some sandpaper as well to eliminate the sawing action that the fairlead has.    

Once the rudder is down, you can use the hook in front of the cleat and the disc on the port side of the tiller to wrap the tail around a few times to keep it out of the way.   If you have hull number 118, you may or may not have gotten a set screw from the factory.  I am hull 93, and I didn't.  Fulcrum will send you the nylon screw, and you can drill and tap a hole in the vertical bracket to take it.  I drilled mine on the starboard vertical member of the rudder bracket, roughly opposite the hole on the port side for the downhaul line termination.  I find it works OK, not great.

I hope that helps, and if not, I can post photos later this week.

Thanks Champlain, that helps a lot.  It took a while to figure out what the disk was about. I thought I was missing something, as I was expecting a second white hook, not a stainless bobbin to tail the down haul.

I've got a hole on the starboard side of the rudder bracket, opposite the down-haul hole. I haven't checked to see if it's tapped, yet.  I've ordered a bag of thumbscrews, which should arrive in a day or so. Spare parts are cheap insurance against a ruined sailing day.

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On 7/16/2019 at 9:48 PM, davs2rt said:

Spare parts are cheap insurance against a ruined sailing day.

Amen!

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On 7/12/2019 at 10:26 AM, martin.langhoff said:

After a bit of sanding, any marine grade epoxy you have at hand. I'm no expert, but IMO thickened g/flex will be best. If you plan to step on it again  make a fillet with the excess on the border for extra hold :-)

(edit: also, don't stop sailing over a missing paddle. it won't be ideal, or pretty, but the end of the stick tracks the water surface alright.)

I showed up at the beach yesterday to find my paddle had broken.  Good thing I had just read this thread.  I fixed mine on the spot with some light sanding with 80 grit, then cleaning with spray acetone and then used Gorilla Glue super glue.  I let it set up for about 5 minutes.  I sailed on it for 2 hours with no issues.  

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On 7/17/2019 at 12:48 AM, davs2rt said:

Thanks Champlain, that helps a lot.  It took a while to figure out what the disk was about. I thought I was missing something, as I was expecting a second white hook, not a stainless bobbin to tail the down haul.

I was mystified by the disk at first as well.  I had to email Fulcrum to figure it out.   It works well, but its odd.  I did have the traveler line get caught on the disc this past weekend for the first time. Not a big deal, a little irritating. 

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And now , ajustable straps, and it works well !

20190721_175104.jpg

20190721_175123.jpg

20190721_175127.jpg

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I begin to sail today when I heard a big sound of rope, and was depowered but I couldn't explain the reason why. I had some short takeoff with a 10 knts wind in the puffs...

When leaving the boat out of the water I notice that my sail track was damaged as showed by pics below

So I need some advices

1/ what happened to have such a damage , I don't understand

2/how to repair and have goo result

   -ist it possible to replace the damaged part only

  -what type of glue can I use

  -how to reinforce this area

3/how to prevent this from hapening again

 

20190721_174922.jpg

20190721_175047.jpg

20190721_175053.jpg

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3 hours ago, Gilles29 said:

I begin to sail today when I heard a big sound of rope, and was depowered but I couldn't explain the reason why. I had some short takeoff with a 10 knts wind in the puffs...

When leaving the boat out of the water I notice that my sail track was damaged as showed by pics below

So I need some advices

1/ what happened to have such a damage , I don't understand

2/how to repair and have goo result

   -ist it possible to replace the damaged part only

  -what type of glue can I use

  -how to reinforce this area

3/how to prevent this from hapening again

 

See page 17, Post 1654, for Dave's hound/sailtrack repair guidance on a similar problem.

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Posted (edited)
On 10/1/2018 at 9:27 AM, Dave Clark said:

Meanwhile, there's a new short in the show don't tell series. This time answering the perennial question "can you right it from a turtle?"
 

DRC

Just saw this, and need to add: ease the mainsheet first.  Boat comes up easier, and less likely to try to sail away as it rights.

-- voice of too much experience with stable mode 2

Dave

Edited by davs2rt
Add extra info

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20 hours ago, Gilles29 said:

 

So I need some advices

1/ what happened to have such a damage , I don't understand

2/how to repair and have goo result

   -ist it possible to replace the damaged part only

  -what type of glue can I use

  -how to reinforce this area

3/how to prevent this from hapening again

 

 

 

 

The delamination of the mainsail track beneath the shroud attachment is a know weakness on the earlier boats.  Fulcrum dramatically increased the size of the plexus fillet on newer boats and that seems to have taken care of the problem.  My boat (hull 093) experienced this failure last summer.  The track can be re-attached to the mast using the Plexus epoxy that the factory uses, with much bigger fillets.   My mast has worked fine after making this repair.  I'd recommend contacting Fulcrum and asking them how to resolve it.  The correct epoxy is not available in single use or small size containers, so getting the epoxy to you may likely be the biggest challenge.  If you have access to a source of the plexus locally, the repair is quite quick and easy.

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2 hours ago, Champlain Sailor said:

The delamination of the mainsail track beneath the shroud attachment is a know weakness on the earlier boats.  Fulcrum dramatically increased the size of the plexus fillet on newer boats and that seems to have taken care of the problem.  My boat (hull 093) experienced this failure last summer.  The track can be re-attached to the mast using the Plexus epoxy that the factory uses, with much bigger fillets.   My mast has worked fine after making this repair.  I'd recommend contacting Fulcrum and asking them how to resolve it.  The correct epoxy is not available in single use or small size containers, so getting the epoxy to you may likely be the biggest challenge.  If you have access to a source of the plexus locally, the repair is quite quick and easy.

Did you use plexus ma 300 / ma 310 or another plexus glue for your repair? 

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On 7/14/2019 at 11:09 PM, Skid said:

Nick,

Thank you for the input and correction. 

I was not aware that 5200 had that reputation within the marine world.  We've been installing CF roof panels for many years in dedicated track cars with no issues and it's held up to chassis flex and CTE differences great.  We do have a large bond area though.

In the aerospace sector I'm used to using various Hysols (9309, 9460, 9396, etc) and plenty of 3M 2216 for secondary structure and some primary.  Have you run into any issues with these?  These are what I typically use in our shop along with MA832 and will be in my quiver for when I need to fix something on my UFO.

Thank you.

TLDR: Just email me if you want to know what glue will work to fix your UFO. I'm happy to provide advice and instruction. If you want to read a very long post about glue specs and chemistry, keep going.

Large bond area is probably your friend in the track car roof panel application. 5200 has excellent strain to failure/tensile elongation), which is the amount it stretches prior to breaking, of around 800%. So if you need stretch that's great, but it just isn't very strong with tensile strength of only 700 psi.

Have to admit I've never looked at the technical data sheet (TDS) for 5200 in my life until now. I learned about it's properties by using it incorrectly as a teenager. In my experience using it as a sealant/hardware bonding glue when putting deck hardware on small dinghies, it works great for sealing the screw holes and is very sticky, but doesn't stick as well to metal or plastic hardware as it does to composites. (Also, sticks extremely well to your hands and cures faster when exposed to water, so the only way to get it off effectively is to rub your hands with acetone, which isn't a good thing to do. So wear gloves when using it.) 

When you remove hardware stuck down with 5200 in my experience it stays stuck to the gel coat on the deck and peels right off the hardware. Removing the 5200 from the deck is a real pain as others have noted, but you can usually scrape the bulk of it off with a putty knife or screwdriver. My strategy is then to wipe it vigorously with acetone, which makes any 5200 you don't get off slightly tacky and then put the hardware back on with more 5200. If you want a sealant that's easier to remove use 3M 4200 or Sikaflex 291. It won't maintain the seal for as long, but it will be much easier to remove when you're taking off your deck hardware for maintenance/replacement. 

For gluing on the wand paddle we use a methyl methacrylate adhesive, Plexus MA320. It has tensile strength that's about 3 times that of 5200, and with a couple hundred UFOs in the world we know it does the job just fine. I'm sure you could get away with weaker glue, but not sure how much weaker. I wouldn't use 5200, but you might be able to get away with it. In the load case where you step on your wand paddle (not something that it was designed for) it might actually work better as the stretch might dissipate the peak load and keep it all in one piece. That's probably not a worthwhile experiment to conduct as there are plenty of glues stronger than MA320 that will work just fine for gluing back on your paddle. 

Things you can glue on the wand paddle with include both West System 105/205 and West System G/Flex thickened with either colloidal silica (West System 406) or high-density filler (West System 404). Plus West System Six10 and basically any epoxy out there, excluding 5-minute epoxies which don't have as good environmental resistance to water, will work. (5-minute epoxy will work, if you need to go sailing today, but it probably won't hold up long term.) Hysols 9309, 9460 and 9396, which are all epoxies, should work as well based on their TDS. Hysol E-90FL will also work. Hysol E-90FL is the epoxy you'd use if you want to have the same mechanicals as Plexus MA320. Which brings us to methyl methacrylates, including Plexus 832, which seems to be a bit stronger than the original Plexus MA320, so it should work just fine. Basically, you need a decently strong glue with good long term water resistance.

Good long term water resistance means cyanoacrylates--at least Gorilla Glue super glue or others you can get at your local convenience store--are not a good long-term solution. They are not recommended for outdoor use, which usually means they'll break down when kept wet for long periods of time or there's a UV resistance issue, but as it is a consumer product there's not a good TDS to reference. However, super glue along with 5-minute epoxy are excellent I need to foil right now solutions. 

On 7/18/2019 at 3:04 PM, DerekF said:

I fixed mine on the spot with some light sanding with 80 grit, then cleaning with spray acetone and then used Gorilla Glue super glue.  I let it set up for about 5 minutes.  I sailed on it for 2 hours with no issues.  

The other I need to foil right now solution is to just go without a paddle. The wand won't work as well without the paddle, but you'll still be able to foil unless wind conditions are super-marginal.

My personal experience with super-glue in marine applications is that it lasts for months, not years. I glue little bits of bath mat to the front of my laser daggerboard case with super glue gel to help keep the daggerboard stuck all the way down. With heavy use in the spring/summer/fall, I usually had to re-glue a few times a year. If you have used super glue or 5-minute epoxy to glue on your wand paddle, I'd recommend removing it and re-gluing with better glue for long-term durability. We also sell spare paddles, if you'd rather see how long your glue lasts and replace the paddle with your spare when the glue let's go.

-Nick

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10 minutes ago, burritoughs said:

The other I need to foil right now solution is to just go without a paddle. The wand won't work as well without the paddle, but you'll still be able to foil unless wind conditions are super-marginal.

My personal experience with super-glue in marine applications is that it lasts for months, not years. I glue little bits of bath mat to the front of my laser daggerboard case with super glue gel to help keep the daggerboard stuck all the way down. With heavy use in the spring/summer/fall, I usually had to re-glue a few times a year. If you have used super glue or 5-minute epoxy to glue on your wand paddle, I'd recommend removing it and re-gluing with better glue for long-term durability. We also sell spare paddles, if you'd rather see how long your glue lasts and replace the paddle with your spare when the glue let's go.

Hey Nick, thanks for sharing your experience.  I'll take a crack at re-gluing the paddle when I get a chance.  In my case, the quick super glue fixed save the sailing day.  I did contemplate going with paddle-less wand and I'm glad to hear that it works.  I thought it might (that was Plan B).  

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On 7/15/2019 at 9:34 PM, davs2rt said:

Can someone please post a photo or two of the nylon locking screw on the rudder, and the fixed side of the rudder downhaul.  I was unaware of the lock screw, so my downhaul goes to the vertical piece with the oval cutout on the tiller/rudder bracket.  I suspect this was drilled for the lock screw, and I'm not sure where to attach the downhaul.  There is no hole on the top surface of the rudder bracket.

While shooting, can I see the new carbon spreader bracket?  My hull is FSXU00111C1118, which has the stamped bracket.  Haven't been out with it nearly enough, but have thought that the stamped bracket seemed like a weak link...

If you still have a stainless steel spreader bracket, email or PM me. I'll send you a new composite bracket with installation instructions for free. Just need your mailing address. The stainless brackets were a weak link on early boats, which is why we eliminated them.

Here's a pic of the nylon thumb screw in the rudderhead.

VIzQ_0P-AJZ5qVoJib2f9lZMSnfy4nXVrDqvHZGZRsL7SI6byVfjGLXY3aj62lMGXYerogpYsV78ISYUu1mZmV-TCtSVY7i8riWoOQ1CBL1tlWx1AXvJiBWrYNB4u_qXJvVZE-l6

It goes through a threaded hole in the top, forward corner of the starboard side plate. I can send you a nylon thumb screw for free to get your boat upgraded on that count as well. We tap the hole 1/4-20 and are happy to sell you spare thumb screws for when they wear out, which they do eventually. 

-Nick

P.S. If you live outside the U.S. and don't want to wait or pay for international shipping, I'd recommend you tap your rudderhead to match the threads on a nylon thumb screw you can buy at your local hardware store. If you have a newer boat that already has the starboard side threaded, I'd recommend sticking with the existing screw or moving to a slightly larger thumb screw that you can procure locally.

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43 minutes ago, Gilles29 said:

Did you use plexus ma 300 / ma 310 or another plexus glue for your repair? 

for this aplication (PVC track on a carbon mast), since I don´t have Plexus locally, I found a similar methacrylate product from 3M: DP810

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Hey team, I was out foiling this weekend and wanted to share a few lessons learned when it comes to foil ventilation.  I think most of us have experienced having too little lift on the rear foil and despite sitting as far forward as possible still ventilating the main foil.  In the past it has always meant instant capsize for me, but I was able to recover the boat very easily the last couple times I have been out.  The trick I have found is simply letting go of the mainsheet (big ease to depower the sail), letting go of the tiller (allows the boat to head to weather to depower) and digging into the hiking straps to hold on.  

The boat doesn't capsize and despite getting a mouth full of bay water, all that is required to recover is to sheet in and bear off.  Can't do that on a Moth...

Enjoy the recovery video below and happy foiling!

(Video is shot in 360, so use finger or mouse to drag the video around to the orientation you would like to view.)

 

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1 hour ago, Gilles29 said:

Did you use plexus ma 300 / ma 310 or another plexus glue for your repair? 

In the factory, the polycarbonate track is glued on with Plexus MA320 and the reinforcing fillet (to prevent the issue you had with track peeling up and breaking) is done with Plexus MA560-1. Plexus or a similar methyl methacrylate adhesive is the correct glue to use to do the repair. Plexus MA300 and MA310 are both stiffer than what we use in the shop, which isn't ideal in this application, but either should work for this repair. A couple folks in Australia used Plexus MA300 to do the reinforcing fillet on their masts, and I haven't heard any complaints, so I'm guessing it held up alright. @Julianv please let us know if there were any issues with using Plexus MA300.

I'd recommend cutting out the piece of damaged track and replacing with a new piece of track based on the picture you sent. We can send you some mast track with installation instructions, but it will inevitably take awhile to get to the UK. Email or PM to get a piece of mast track with installation instructions and/or for individual advice specific to your mast. If you're trying to get your boat fixed right now, I believe the track we use is the same as the track on the RS Aero and 29er, so if you know any folks who sail those boats, they may have a spare piece they could give you that would work.

Here's what a mast with the reinforcing fillet looks like: 

YitS_eFM1p6QZZRYM2OjZJZ0VynaeYwSS2mXkXQKWY_kQKRx3XNmEaBbeXNhd-f5tdeMlF064kEYsDvdo3iwzOzkeRjilheKhagD4o8yWiUm81kjXMVGObeX9kuWd3eKfE9U18aa

-Nick

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On 7/17/2019 at 12:48 AM, davs2rt said:

I've got a hole on the starboard side of the rudder bracket, opposite the down-haul hole. I haven't checked to see if it's tapped, yet.  I've ordered a bag of thumbscrews, which should arrive in a day or so. Spare parts are cheap insurance against a ruined sailing day.

You might consider using a wing-nut-on-a-bolt -- see post #1641 on page 17 of this forum. I've used this version since the end of last summer and find it's much easier to tighten sufficiently to hold the rudder strut up.

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On 7/12/2019 at 10:30 PM, P Flados said:

A UFO has landed in Southeastern North Carolina.

After UFO 0017 was used for an early demo, it sat around not being used (but it was stored inside).

I got lucky and stumbled across an add for it at a good price and location.  Turned out the owner was headed my way and volunteered to deliver the boat from Cape Hatteras to its new home in Wilmington NC :D.

It was in pretty good shape.  I did some minor fixes:

  1. The adjuster wheel for the rudder rake had too much slop.  I made some shim washers from a milk jug.  The surface in front of the adjuster wheel is not square to the adjuster rod.  I have a plan for making it more true at a later date.
  2. The the lower gudgeon hole was way oversized and the rudder tolerances did not allow the normal bushing installation.  The rudder opening is just big enough to slip over the gudgeons with zero room for the flange on a bushing between the gudgeon and the rudder bracket (the part that looks like a washer in the photo in the Owner's guide.  It came with one bushing in the lower rudder bracket (inserted from below) and a bushing with the flange cut off for the lower gudgeon hole).   I did a re-work that looks good and seems to work like it should (negligible slop in any direction).  If It works out OK, I will provide more details.
  3. I also noted a ~1/16" deep dent in the main foil flap caused by the end of the pushrod (boy the diameter of that rod is smaller than I expected) I ground out the material around the dent to make a depression the diameter of a dime to be filled back in with epoxy / chopped fiberglass. I found that the dent was pretty much just damage to a thick layer of gel coat.

For now, I took and old beater 4' x 6' utility trailer and set it up as a UFO trailer.  Conditions look good for a first sail tomorrow.     

Great to have another sailor joining the invasion. Couple quick notes:

  1. Great mod. A lot of folks have done that or something similar to eliminate slop in the rudder.
  2. Some of the very early boats had a very tight fit for the rudder head. That's why the flange was cut off the bushing to make everything go together appropriately. That will continue to be an oddity of this early UFO hull. At the end of the day you should have three bushings, two in the rudderhead and one in the lower gudgeon on the hull. The bushings do wear out over time, but we sell spares in 18-packs for about $12. PM/email me if you'd like spares or have any questions you need answered.
  3. The dent in the mainfoil is actually put there in the factory for the pushrod to sit in as it pushes on the flap. It tends to chip the gel coat overtime no matter water you do and require filling with thickened epoxy after lots of use. The addition of chopped fibers to the mixture is probably overkill, but overkill is underrated. Smart move.

Hope your initial UFO outing went well. Feel free to reach out to me with any questions you have.

-Nick

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For the rudder-foil 'brake', I devised an alternative to the nylon thumb screw which I find more effective and easier to engage.  It uses an easy-to-grip plastic knob attached to a metal bolt terminated by a nylon acorn nut.  When tightened, the acorn nut presses against the centerline of the foil through the oval void in the side of the rudderhead.  You can quickly apply plenty of pressure against the foil.

I had a piece of polycarbonate on hand which I threaded for a 1/4-20 bolt.  The rest of the parts were available at my local hardware store.  I wasn't sure exactly where to position it at first, so this version clamps onto the rudderhead with fender washers; it worked so well I never took the time to bolt it directly to the rudderhead.  You do need sufficient clearance between the acorn nut and foil when the brake is not engaged, so I'm unsure if you could just use the existing threaded thumb screw hole without attaching a threaded bar of polycarbonate or, even better, G10/FR4.  (My early UFO didn't have a pre-drilled hole.)

IMG_4179.JPG

IMG_4357.JPG

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Hey all, I haven't asked in a while and I know the Fulcrum team has been shipping boats all over the world:  are there any Southern California UFO sailors who would be interested in getting together for some UFO flying and perhaps a regatta?  I am trying to gage interest level and see what we can get set up.  I am based in San Diego and I met another UFO pilot this weekend who also is an SD guy.  PM me if you are interested.

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I had a really fun foiling session this past Sunday and got a chance to put some of Dave's recommendations on going to windward to work.  I began focusing on this down at the Wickford regatta, but the winds there never got strong enough to really load the boat up and make strong windward foiling progress.   Sunday we had 12 knots pretty steady with gusts to 15-16.  There wasn't much chop, so the gusts were easy to see and anticipate.  I gave some lessons to my son's high school friend, and she put the boat well down the bay, so once she was done, I got busy getting back up to windward.  I found that by going to full wand extension and healing well to windward, I could really control my speed and heal angle with the main sheet.  By easing a bit, I was able to sit in, just on the edge of the hull so I did not need a prolonged full-body hike.   This was fast and fun!   

The odd phenomena I found is that when I was hit with a puff, I'd ease, heal more to weather, then trim.  The boat accelerated a lot, and it also rose up on the foils, often going beyond the full wand height.   It seemed as if the rig was generating significant lift, which is not surprising giving that it was canted well to windward.  My concern was that I'd ventilate the main foil, as often happens when sailing over full wand height for any period of time.  But it never happened.  I'd continue rising slowly, lifting the end of the wand maybe 2-3" above the water and the wand would spring forward, staying there for quite some time.   Dave, Nick, is this typical?  Perhaps I should have adjusted the rudder rake to lift the transom slightly.   I kept waiting for the ventilation and subsequent nose dive, but it never came.   I was amazed how quickly I could make ground to windward, it was lots of fun.

I also practiced my downwind sailing and continued my quest to nail a foiling gybe, but without success.     I had a lot of fast gybes, but none was foiling.  Back to the lake....

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Sounds like you had a little bit too much mainfoil lift and/or too little rudder lift. If the boat was trimmed slightly bow down, but still rising up to the point where the wand flicked free, then your the best move would be to reduce mainfoil lift by moving the pin forward.

If the boat was trimmed bow up, you could trim it to level or slightly bow down by increasing rudder lift by turning the handwheel to starboard. If you trim the boat so that it is aggressively bow down while foiling you risk ventilating the rudder foil, which is a lot more exciting than mainfoil ventilation. Ventilating the mainfoil causes a loss of lift forward, resulting in digging in the bows and at worst a pitch pole. With lot’s of windward heel on a ventilation can cause you to skid out to leeward and come off the foils. Ventilating the rudder causes the boat to spin out very quickly towards the wind and usually dump you in the water in the process. 

Now, if you’re in a race and don’t want to stop and mess with controls, you do have a couple other tricks for keeping the boat in the water. You can move your body weight forward to trim the bow down. You can also use heel angle to steer the boat towards the water. Head up with windward heel to drive the bows towards the surface of the water. You can also pump the main to drive the bows down though this is most effective downwind. Finally, you can ease the sails and slow down. The reason you fly high and ventilate the foils is that more boat speed equals more foil lift for a given AoA. Sometimes its quicker to foil a little more slowly across the finish line as the breeze increases than to stop and change your AoA settings.

-Nick

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Hey Nick, is there any intel on what is a faster foiling attitude (nose up / nose down / flat)?  The AC72's all foil nose-down but our UFO's are different having the centerline T-foils and costing several orders of magnitude less.  

Also, any thoughts from the peanut gallery on whether a nose up attitude would create some aerodynamic lift vis a vie the hull moving 16-18 knots through the air with a positive AOA?  Probably a tertiary effect but interesting nonetheless.

  

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1 minute ago, DerekF said:

Hey Nick, is there any intel on what is a faster foiling attitude (nose up / nose down / flat)?  The AC72's all foil nose-down but our UFO's are different having the centerline T-foils and costing several orders of magnitude less.  

Also, any thoughts from the peanut gallery on whether a nose up attitude would create some aerodynamic lift vis a vie the hull moving 16-18 knots through the air with a positive AOA?  Probably a tertiary effect but interesting nonetheless.

  

What I do know about nose down foiling is that it makes the boat more pitch stable. If you're try to crush upwind through steep waves, keep winding on rudder AoA until the boat almost doesn't foil due to its nose down attitude. Once you do get going, the boat is very planted and doesn't jump off the waves and crash. It's a rather amazing feeling once you dial in the mode. More on foiling in waves below:

As far as what is faster in most conditions around a racecourse, we don't really know as we haven't two boat tested that extensively. I would say that there are times to be both nose up and nose down, so tuning the foils for flat sailing with your butt on the middle pad and then playing the nose-up nose-down attitude with body weight is probably your best race tuning. The pitch instability gives you easy access to a variety of modes to use tactically even if it doesn't result in setting a new UFO speed record. Specifically, in very marginal foiling breeze you can use body weight shifts to get foiling.

  1. To start you want to be weight forward as you begin to accelerate as this reduces wave drag off the sterns as well as AoA and drag on the foils.
  2. As the boat starts foil-assisted planing, you can move your weight back to a more comfortable, middle position. The main thing now is to focus on pumping the mainsheet while not over-trimming the main.
  3. Finally, when you're ready to take-off you will shift weight aft to put a lot of AoA on the foils launching you into the air. You need to have enough speed on as you shift weight aft that the lift from the rudder supports you and prevents the sterns from digging into the water. Wave drag off the sterns will kill your take-off. Additionally, when you do the final aggressive shift back you need to have enough speed and momentum that the additional drag from putting more AoA on the foils doesn't slow you down before the additional lift launches you into the air.
  4. Finally, when you get into the air with the weight back and the nose up, your hull drag goes essentially to zero allowing the boat to continue to accelerate. If it's truly marginal conditions you'll still be pumping the main even as you begin to fly in a nose-up attitude.
  5. Now as the boat accelerates, you'll need to shift weight forward, which reduces AoA and lift on the foils, in tandem with your increasing speed, which increases lift on the foils. Keeping this in balance will be key to getting and remaining flying.
    1. In lulls you'll see that you can remain flying by shifting weight aft, adopting a bow up attitude and going back to pumping the sail.
    2. If the breeze isn't truly marginal maintaining the nose-up attitude for any length of time may result in the boat launching right out of the water and ventilating the mainfoil. This is a game you can only play when the breeze is light.

Nose-up attitude from aero perspective would also increase the aero drag of the hull, slowing you down. As the hull isn't shaped to be a wing, I'm guessing aero drag beats aero lift as far as speed is concerned. Additionally, as water is far denser than air, the lift/drag consequences for the foils of trimming nose up or down will probably dominate. However, I'd guess you'll find when playing around with this that the net AoA on the foils versus the surface of the water for a given wind speed tends to remain constant. If you want to fly around nose-up all the time, which increases AoA on the foils, you'll probably find yourself reducing the AoA of the foils relative to the hull (by going pin forward and winding your handwheel to port) and getting back to the same AoA relative to the surface of the water you were sailing when the boat was level. However, as you're nose-up the rake of your rig will be different. How that affects top speed, I have no idea. But there are so many other unmentioned variables at play, I think only two-boat testing and racing will resolve the issue of optimal trim.

-Nick

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UFO For sale in Europe, Estonia. 4 times sailed . Works like a charm and can be shipped almost everywhere in Europe.


Upgrades:
1.Outhaul LFR-s replaced with microblocks for smoother and easier control
2.Diamonds tensioning system LFR-s replaced with microblocks and added purchase for better and easier control.
3.Diamonds tensioning  lines replaced with Liros 3mm dyneema for smoother control.
4.Hounds area  reinforced with carbon
5.Added eye nuts(M5) to rudder and db
6.Original foil covers

All customs taxes(25%+ VAT20%) are payed and docs are OK.
Make Your offer.

 

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Got a great tip from a customer over the course of our most recent clinic on how to get stuck mast sections apart. Learning at the clinics doesn't just flow from student to teacher. You can learn from other clinic participants as well as the coaches, and the coaches are always picking up new things from owners that we can share with all of you. If you haven't been to a clinic yet, sign up for the next one we announce.

Anyway, here's the tip on getting a middle and top sections that have been stuck together with sand/silt in the joint apart. It is courtesy of James, UFO #127. First attempt to get it apart should be to douse the join with cold hose water and have two big guys try to pull it apart by hand. If that doesn't work, see below.

Quote

Hi Nick,

I highly recommend the wrench strap trick.  When I got a few grains of sand in my upper mast connection, the mast became fused together.  I tried yanking, pulling, and twisting.  I tried with my two brothers and we couldn't budge it.  I bought some wrench straps from amazon and it worked easily.  My wife and 12 year old son were pulling and I used the wrenches to apply torsion, occasionally changing rotation direction.  It came apart very quickly.

The wrenches are rubber straps.  My idea was to attach the handles so that the normal force was not near the sail track and the rubber strap provided a large tangential load via friction.  I agree that if not done correctly, the wrench handle will crush the sail track.

Below is a photo and a sketch.  Two wrenches are needed.  Set the wrenches to oppose each other so that the mast pieces can be twisted.  While one person twists, the other two people grab the mast and pull along the axis.

Here's the link from amazon. It ships with a large and small strap.  Two small wrenches work better (I bought two packages), but it will also work with a small and large wrench as shown in the photo.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K92810A/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I hope this helps.  Feel free to forward this email or post to the forum.

James

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Additionally, I'm getting as much video footage of the clinic as I can posted to our youtube channel. Hopefully, it will create a virtual clinic of sorts for those of you who haven't made it to RI for one. Here's the first video, there will be more to come over the coming weeks. 

-Nick

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Well my third trip out today gave me my first taste of both hulls out, stable boat height and not rolling in either direction.  Sad to say this was only on a couple of runs and individual flight duration was less than 15 seconds. 

This was with a very down powered rig given the 15 knots gusting to 20 knots conditions (not really a good thing for a rank beginner).

All sailing was in "training mode" or a more mid height setting.  Lots of fast foil assist stuff, but boy do I have a lot to learn (and UFO unfriendly old habits to un-learn).

This was also my third location to sail in.  It was a better than the other two, but it still had issues.  I have run the rear foil into sand or mud on every trip out.  I still have a couple of other places I need to try.  I am also working on making the boat more tolerant of rear foil grounding.  There is just no way the adjusting/connecting rod of the original setup can handle the loads of a hard grounding, it just buckles and make a mess of rake angle and rake adjustability.   I found this out on trip #2.  Today, my "improved setup" kind of worked, but it is still not right.

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23 hours ago, P Flados said:

All sailing was in "training mode" or a more mid height setting.  Lots of fast foil assist stuff, but boy do I have a lot to learn (and UFO unfriendly old habits to un-learn).

I hear you on learning new muscle memory.  The bear off / sheet in to bear off while maintaining heel angle and the head up / sheet out to head up and maintain heel angle unique to foilers.  I've been sailing the boat for 18 months and it still feels a bit funny.  

Good luck with the foil grounding, I don't have much experience there.  I ground my aft foil VERY slowly as I pull into the beach and it's no worse for the wear.  Never grounded a foil at full speed.

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I do not sweat the rudder drag at slow speeds when I am expecting it (close to shore). 

My problems have been either when I was running main foil up and rudder down 18" while I do tricky sailing to get from launch point to the better sailing areas or it was where I was trying to foil and one or more sides of a "good area" had shallows a good distance from shore at near low tide.

On a different note, my last outing also showed me the perils of trying to sail a UFO like a normal boat while needing to travel a good way down wind in 15+ knots of wind and with unidentified areas likely to be less than 3' of water.  I had the main foil up, but I still had to have around 2' of rudder down to even have a chance to control the boat.  Then with the main sheet full out, I was tacking downwind but had to sit almost hanging off the stern, and zig upwind as needed with every puff to keep the bows "no more than a little bit" below the surface.  Eventually I gave up tacking, got directly upwind of the ramp, turned the nose to the wind, stood right next to the mast and backed my way in until I was within 30' of shore.   

Now that I have had time to think it though, I think there was a better way.  If I had loosened the cunningham to minimum (but still fully routed to secure the mast in the boat in the case of a capsize) and re-routed the mainsheet so I could let it run (single strand ) from my hand to the clew, then I could let the sail rotate way more around to the front of the boat to control power. 

 

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For Sale. Make Offer. 631-697-9280 Long Island NY.  See classified section for ad. Any reasonable offer accepted. Hip replacement surgery forces sale. Fully updated boat with newest generation parts from factory.

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UFO for sale in San Diego, can deliver within Southern California.  The boat is complete and in great shape, only sailed a hand full of times.  This boat is fun to sail but I just can't seem to find time to sail it, my loss is your gain.  It has blue deck pad with green sails and all available covers.  I also made a rolling stand to store it on it's side that also makes it much easier to get on top of a car that I'll throw in for free.  Asking $6,500 but I'll consider all offers.  Give me a shout if you have any questions.00A0A_7a6RZO2HQhx_1200x900.jpg

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On 8/7/2019 at 7:39 PM, P Flados said:

This was also my third location to sail in.  It was a better than the other two, but it still had issues.  I have run the rear foil into sand or mud on every trip out.  I still have a couple of other places I need to try.  I am also working on making the boat more tolerant of rear foil grounding.  There is just no way the adjusting/connecting rod of the original setup can handle the loads of a hard grounding, it just buckles and make a mess of rake angle and rake adjustability.   I found this out on trip #2.  Today, my "improved setup" kind of worked, but it is still not right.

We sell replacement Rudder AoA Threaded Pushrods for this very reason. The part is built as a fuse in the system, so that you don't do more serious and expensive damage to the boat in an accidental grounding. Be careful of beefing it up as it might just cause something more expensive to break and need to be replaced after the next grounding.

Usually the Rudder AoA Pushrod can be bent back straight after a grounding, and after being bent back and forth many times it will eventually fail and need to be replaced. If you hit a little harder, you may also bend the pintle, which can also be bent back straight. If you hit a little harder than that the next thing to break is usually the lower gudgeon. The pintle will tear right out the back end of the gudgeon, which is a pretty simple fiberglass repair to do. Finally, in the hardest groundings the top gudgeon will break off the hull, which is easy to replace; however, the entire rudder assembly is now detached from the hull and can be lost.

We've only heard one report of the rudder breaking off the hull and it occurred when a submerged object (e.g. log or large sea creature) got hit at by a UFO going close to 20 knots. While losing your rudder assembly is an expensive day on the water and a huge bummer, it is far preferable to ripping the gantry off the hull. Arguably your hull is totalled at that point as it would be a very complex and expensive repair to build a new gantry and splice it onto a damaged hull. Plus you're going to be filling with water as you try to get the boat to shore. Thankfully, the foam blocks inside the hull will keep it afloat, but you'll in submarine mode, which will make an already tricky situation more difficult.

On 8/9/2019 at 2:30 AM, P Flados said:

On a different note, my last outing also showed me the perils of trying to sail a UFO like a normal boat while needing to travel a good way down wind in 15+ knots of wind and with unidentified areas likely to be less than 3' of water.  I had the main foil up, but I still had to have around 2' of rudder down to even have a chance to control the boat.  Then with the main sheet full out, I was tacking downwind but had to sit almost hanging off the stern, and zig upwind as needed with every puff to keep the bows "no more than a little bit" below the surface.  Eventually I gave up tacking, got directly upwind of the ramp, turned the nose to the wind, stood right next to the mast and backed my way in until I was within 30' of shore.   

Now that I have had time to think it though, I think there was a better way.  If I had loosened the cunningham to minimum (but still fully routed to secure the mast in the boat in the case of a capsize) and re-routed the mainsheet so I could let it run (single strand ) from my hand to the clew, then I could let the sail rotate way more around to the front of the boat to control power. 

I don't think your solution will allow you to ease the main that much further. The shrouds catch on the mainfoil when it's raised and in order to ease the main fully you need to take off all shroud tension. I'm guessing that is where you're hung up. You also want to put rudder AoA all the way to the minimum, if you hadn't already done that.

I should note, you've discovered one of the trickiest bits of UFO sailing (i.e. getting into the beach downwind through shallow water in breeze and waves with the mainfoil up). Just be glad you didn't get a foiling boat that has to be swum capsized on/off beach as that's a whole nother can of worms. Anyway we all have issues with downwind landings as the wind and waves get bigger. (I owe the forum the video footage of me wrestling with this very type of landing. Need to finish the edit.) When you run into trouble with this type of landing, good seamanship dictates that you stop trying to make it look pretty and just get the boat home. That means:

  • Tack, don't jibe. (You seemed to have figured this one out.) Usually the UFO is easier to jibe than tack, in this situation tacking is much easier.
  • If you're tired and need a rest, heave to. You'll naturally drift downwind towards the beach. In a UFO this means mainsail fully eased and tiller pushed all the way over to the same side as the mainsail. I like to heave to by leaning my back against the mainsail and holding the tiller with my feet. You can plan your next move from here.
  • If it is shallow enough to stand on the bottom, hop out and walk the boat home. Even if that means trudging 100 hundred yards through 3 foot deep water, no feats of dinghy sailing prowess will be required to reach shore.
  • Capsize the boat with the mast pointed towards the wind. Place the top of the mast on your shoulder, so the buoyancy from your lifejacket prevents the boat from turtling. The tramp of the UFO will act like a sail, pulling you and your UFO towards shore.
  • Backing down is a clever solution as long as the waves aren't too big. In bigger chop, the boat can capsize over the stern when backing down if you don't keep your weight well forward.

Finally, we'll have a chalk talk video from the most recent clinic on this very topic posting later this week. For now here's the Chalk Talks playlist from youtube. The latest video went up yesterday and another one will be posting tomorrow morning. I'll keep posting another one every other day at 9am until we've run out of footage.

-Nick

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5 hours ago, burritoughs said:

 

  • Tack, don't jibe. (You seemed to have figured this one out.) Usually the UFO is easier to jibe than tack, in this situation tacking is much easier.
  • If you're tired and need a rest, heave to. You'll naturally drift downwind towards the beach. In a UFO this means mainsail fully eased and tiller pushed all the way over to the same side as the mainsail. I like to heave to by leaning my back against the mainsail and holding the tiller with my feet. You can plan your next move from here.
  • If it is shallow enough to stand on the bottom, hop out and walk the boat home. Even if that means trudging 100 hundred yards through 3 foot deep water, no feats of dinghy sailing prowess will be required to reach shore.
  • Capsize the boat with the mast pointed towards the wind. Place the top of the mast on your shoulder, so the buoyancy from your lifejacket prevents the boat from turtling. The tramp of the UFO will act like a sail, pulling you and your UFO towards shore.
  • Backing down is a clever solution as long as the waves aren't too big. In bigger chop, the boat can capsize over the stern when backing down if you don't keep your weight well forward.

 

Wouldn’t sheeting in be enough to depower and keep the bows out? 

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10 hours ago, burritoughs said:

When you run into trouble with this type of landing, good seamanship dictates that you stop trying to make it look pretty and just get the boat home.

What Nick said. I've been there too -- with a partially flooded hull. In postmortem discussion, one option we figured out to keep sailing downwind without mainfoil and preventing submarine was to lie on your stomach at the aft corner of the boat, "swim-sailing" it downwind, dragging your lower body in the water to keep the bow up.

After any strong grounding of the rudder which bends or breaks parts as Nick has mentioned, check the rudder gantry. Lift the boat from the gantry or the rudder (to the point the boat is suspended between bow and gantry/rudder), and check for cracks along the "join" of the bulbous gantry shape and the main hull. I recently discovered some on mine -- after a bunch of groundings and other abuse.

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5 hours ago, barthrh said:

Wouldn’t sheeting in be enough to depower and keep the bows out? 

Sheeting in downwind is going to be a recipe for powering up and--if the bows don't dig first--rounding up. Trying to the pull the mainsail on centerline and luffing when you're dead downwind in a UFO (a la a mark trap in 420 or FJ) seems like a dangerous and  impossible feat to pull off. I'm guessing it will almost instantly catch. I've never tried it, but with a full battened mainsail, it never really luffs, the battens just get popped one way or another and it continues to works as curved airfoil. You'll notice this affect when the foils are up and boat is floating just off the beach while you're putting away or getting your dolly. A boat head to wind will tend to drift sideways due to lift off the full battened mainsail (i.e. airfoil).

-Nick

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@burritoughs @Dave Clark - your chalk talk videos are fantastic. Thank you.

One area I have trouble with in rig tune / depower is that when the wind drops I find it hard to get back to light wind configuration when I'm in the water.

The lightest wind configuration requires a sequence of setup -- shrouds to spec'd tension, cunningham, outhaul to spec'd shroud tension. I head out, wind picks up, ok, it's easy to flatten the sail a bit. Wind drops back to light. Can't get to a reasonable rig shape again.

Is there any trick that helps with this?

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1 minute ago, martin.langhoff said:

@burritoughs @Dave Clark - your chalk talk videos are fantastic. Thank you.

One area I have trouble with in rig tune / depower is that when the wind drops I find it hard to get back to light wind configuration when I'm in the water.

The lightest wind configuration requires a sequence of setup -- shrouds to spec'd tension, cunningham, outhaul to spec'd shroud tension. I head out, wind picks up, ok, it's easy to flatten the sail a bit. Wind drops back to light. Can't get to a reasonable rig shape again.

Is there any trick that helps with this?

Fully ease your cunningham and outhaul, but leave them attached. Then wail on the shroud tension. Bowstringing it is key to getting maximum tension.

If your rig is fully stretched in and the breeze was only moderate (under 20 knots) you should be able to get back to the light air setting you had on shore. Once the knots and splices in the rigging are stretched in, nothing moves most of the time. If it blew over 30 knots and then died the knots at the spreader ends may have slipped a bit. But if you wail on a ton of shroud tension and get the spreaders looking a little tip down you should be able to get a good light air setting back on.

-Nick

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I fully appreciate the "fuse" concept in the AOA rod and I understand the expected progression of damage the harder the grounding or object impact.  Most of my expected groundings will be where I am not trying to go fast.  Think launch site more than a mile from decent water with travel via intracoastal waterway.  For these groundings I expect to have rod buckle only impact levels and hate the thought of ruining an entire sailing day after launching by buckling a rod on my way to deeper water. 

For getting the sail out more, I was just talking a little more rotation so I could sail deeper as I was tacking down.  I had a stopper knot in the main sheet, and it was hard up against the block.  I will have to see how far I was from having the shrouds against the main foil strut. 

Good general advice for resting.  I had previously picked up on the "park mode" and I use it a lot to catch my breath.  

I figured out that I needed "not pretty" real fast and I did walk the boat quite a bit.  I did it more for launching than for coming in.  This location was not bad for walking most of the time with a sand bottom.  At launch,  I did have to trudge through a stretch of soft sticky mud.  Other places have been worse with mostly mud and/or the additional threat provided by oysters. 

Backing down with 1' of rudder in the water and me way forward worked pretty good.  I was lucky that this location did not have any real waves, just small chop.   

The "swim sail" sounds interesting.

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Hey, question for the masses.

Had a blast sailing this thing again last evening. I had forgotten how much fun it is. Thought I would sell it once we got our big cruising tri but with lightning repairs underway and that boat grounded I am back to dinks for my kicks. And what fun the Laser and UFO is.  #foilingisfun!

But in sailing last evening the pin that holds the main foil down kept working its way out.  Never all the way.  And my foiling skills had improved enough that I was stopping a lot to play with rig and sail tune/trim, as well as foil trim and wand height.  So maybe it works when the boat is just sitting still and the foil is loading and unloading in the waves.

  * Anyway, anybody else run into this and is there an easy fix?

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36 minutes ago, Wess said:

But in sailing last evening the pin that holds the main foil down kept working its way out.  Never all the way.  And my foiling skills had improved enough that I was stopping a lot to play with rig and sail tune/trim, as well as foil trim and wand height.  So maybe it works when the boat is just sitting still and the foil is loading and unloading in the waves.

  * Anyway, anybody else run into this and is there an easy fix?

Generally the pin moves in one direction all the time, and usually it’s trying to work it’s way out from port to starboard. There are a number of small things you can do to arrest the issue.

  1. Put the ring ding on the port side, so the pin gets stoppered by the ring ding.
  2. Tie a piece of string to the ring ding that secures it up, so it acts as an effective stopper. Usually I have a loop of string that goes over the nut and then over the end of the pin on the other side. 
  3. The looser your gates are the more the pin can move around. Sounds like you’ve broken in your UFO to the point where it would be a good idea to tighten up the bolts on the gates. This also helps with the gates coming open when you don’t want them to.
  4. Once the boat is broken in to the point where the gates have gotten loose once, you probably want to put something on them to keep them closed. If you have the original gates design you can wrap e-tape around it, or long-term make yourself a reusable Velcro strap. If you have the newer gates, they extend forward and can be tied together in front of the strut.

 

-Nick

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54 minutes ago, burritoughs said:

Generally the pin moves in one direction all the time, and usually it’s trying to work it’s way out from port to starboard. There are a number of small things you can do to arrest the issue.

  1. Put the ring ding on the port side, so the pin gets stoppered by the ring ding.
  2. Tie a piece of string to the ring ding that secures it up, so it acts as an effective stopper. Usually I have a loop of string that goes over the nut and then over the end of the pin on the other side. 
  3. The looser your gates are the more the pin can move around. Sounds like you’ve broken in your UFO to the point where it would be a good idea to tighten up the bolts on the gates. This also helps with the gates coming open when you don’t want them to.
  4. Once the boat is broken in to the point where the gates have gotten loose once, you probably want to put something on them to keep them closed. If you have the original gates design you can wrap e-tape around it, or long-term make yourself a reusable Velcro strap. If you have the newer gates, they extend forward and can be tied together in front of the strut.

 

-Nick

Thanks Nick.  Much appreciated.  Hope to see you guys also building Lasers or ILCAs or whatever they call em, LOL!  The customer service out of Fulcrum is amazing!!

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55 minutes ago, burritoughs said:

 

  1. The looser your gates are the more the pin can move around. Sounds like you’ve broken in your UFO to the point where it would be a good idea to tighten up the bolts on the gates. This also helps with the gates coming open when you don’t want them to.
  2. Once the boat is broken in to the point where the gates have gotten loose once, you probably want to put something on them to keep them closed. If you have the original gates design you can wrap e-tape around it, or long-term make yourself a reusable Velcro strap. If you have the newer gates, they extend forward and can be tied together in front of the strut.

 

-Nick

I find that I need to tighten the pivot points on my gates about twice a season.  With an open ended wrench, it can be done with the mast out and the foil still in place, so it only takes 5 minutes to do it.   The velcro strap around the gates works pretty well, but I did have it slip off for the first time last week during a  3 hour long multi-sailor session.  The new style gates with extended fronts look terrific.  It looks like a lobster claw band would work well to keep them closed.   When it breaks, you know its time for another lobster dinner.

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APS has very cheap amsteel dyneema line of the kind you have in your ufo shrouds. Go get some :-)

I took all the grey so I fully expect to see the rest of the fleet in orange and green rigging...

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31 minutes ago, martin.langhoff said:

APS has very cheap amsteel dyneema line of the kind you have in your ufo shrouds. Go get some :-)

I took all the grey so I fully expect to see the rest of the fleet in orange and green rigging...

I'm told the line I got isn't right. Hold on to your credit cards... 

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