Doug Lord

Steve and Dave Clarks Unidentified Foiling Object

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Hi there,

I have a couple of questions. 

Is this expected : the pushrod digging into the main foil while sailing? The attached picture  shows what I mean... 

And what is the technique to change the wand height while under the way? It looks to far to reach out from the boat, isn't it?

Thanks a bunch in advance

 

IMG_20190902_193641033.jpg

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In archimedean mode and with big chop in 20 knts wind, I adjusted my rudder with negative AoA, my body at the maximum aft of the boat,  but when jibing  I pitchpoled and I noticed after that the rudder was half raised.

advices  to avoid pitchpole?

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9 hours ago, barsuk1 said:

Is this expected : the pushrod digging into the main foil while sailing? The attached picture  shows what I mean... 

I believe there was a post on this thread discussing the same issue, the poster had solved it with a small patch of carbon fiber and epoxy.

9 hours ago, barsuk1 said:

And what is the technique to change the wand height while under the way?

I go for a quick swim -- in the warm FL waters. If I sailed in cold water, I'd be devising something to control it from the deck.

4 hours ago, Gilles29 said:

In archimedean mode and with big chop in 20 knts wind, I adjusted my rudder with negative AoA, my body at the maximum aft of the boat,  but when jibing  I pitchpoled and I noticed after that the rudder was half raised.

advices  to avoid pitchpole?

There was recent discussion on this, and one of the chalk talk videos talks about it as well. Questions

- did you have the main foil down, and with some wand length in action? You need the lift from the main foil

- "the rudder was half raised" do you mean that the hold down line slipped and the rudder slid up? That may have contributed to the problem.

 

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11 hours ago, barsuk1 said:

And what is the technique to change the wand height while under the way? It looks to far to reach out from the boat, isn't it?

There is no mechanism to change the wand height while under way.  Many moth sailors have added rigging for this, and it can be useful.  But the UFO, being a simple craft, requires the want to be manually pulled up or down.   This can be done on the water by swimming to the front of the boat, or if you are light and have good balance, laying on the windward hull on your side, and reaching out to the wand with both hands to move it up or down.  No matter how you do it, be careful not to pull on the wand with too much force, either up-and-down or side-to-side.  This is a fairly week component in the boat, and they have been known to crack.  They are not hard to fix, but it will put an end to your day on the water for at least a little while.  

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2 hours ago, martin.langhoff said:

I believe there was a post on this thread discussing the same issue, the poster had solved it with a small patch of carbon fiber and epoxy.

I go for a quick swim -- in the warm FL waters. If I sailed in cold water, I'd be devising something to control it from the deck.

There was recent discussion on this, and one of the chalk talk videos talks about it as well. Questions

- did you have the main foil down, and with some wand length in action? You need the lift from the main foil

- "the rudder was half raised" do you mean that the hold down line slipped and the rudder slid up? That may have contributed to the problem.

 

Thank you Martin, found this post about the dent in the mainfoil. However, my question was actually more about if this is how it should be? If yes, I believe that the steel rod will make its way through the epoxy with fiberglass as well...

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20 minutes ago, barsuk1 said:

Thank you Martin, found this post about the dent in the mainfoil. However, my question was actually more about if this is how it should be? If yes, I believe that the steel rod will make its way through the epoxy with fiberglass as well...

Touching up the wear spot on the mainfoil will be a continual maintenance issue. That being said, you're going to be doing it once a year maximum even with heavy use. (I still haven't done this to my boat, though I do need to, and my boat is nearly 2 years old and very heavily used.) I would suggest waiting for the pushrod to wear all the through (or almost all the way through) the gel coat before touching the area up. It will wear away at the gel coat a lot faster than it will wear through the fiberglass and carbon fiber laminate underneath. Once you see it getting into the laminate you do want to fix it as if you continue to ignore it, it will go through the flap eventually.

When it comes time to add material, the easiest thing to do will be to add a little more gel coat and it will be just as durable as it was originally. If you want to get fancier, I would suggest using epoxy and adding fillers. My preference would be a small amount (5-10% by volume) of graphite (West System 423) for UV and then thickening with high-density filler (West System 404) for better durability and wear resistance. You want to make sure to maintain the dimple in the foil that the pushrod rests in, when you do this. Basically, you want to overbuild flap to a fair surface and then put in the dimple in it with a drill bit. We recommend using a 1/4 inch drill bit and running the drill in reverse as this will remove material very slowing. Obviously, you just want to dent the surface, not drill through the flap of your foil.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you any further questions.

-Nick

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FYI, when I repaired my main foil flap dent with epoxy / chopped fiberglass, I did nothing after fairing the surface. 

After one outing, a nice shallow dent was back in place.  

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4 hours ago, martin.langhoff said:

I believe there was a post on this thread discussing the same issue, the poster had solved it with a small patch of carbon fiber and epoxy.

I go for a quick swim -- in the warm FL waters. If I sailed in cold water, I'd be devising something to control it from the deck.

There was recent discussion on this, and one of the chalk talk videos talks about it as well. Questions

- did you have the main foil down, and with some wand length in action? You need the lift from the main foil

- "the rudder was half raised" do you mean that the hold down line slipped and the rudder slid up? That may have contributed to the problem.

 

My mainfoil was up , so no wand lenght in action

Rudder raised because the hold down line slid up

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1 hour ago, Gilles29 said:

My mainfoil was up , so no wand lenght in action

Downwind in 20kt with no main foil is a hard one. Is it due to shallows? If not, keep the mainfoil down, the boat needs the lift it provides. If yes... depower the rig, sit as far back as possible -- which you were doing -- or body surf behind the boat (ie: drag your legs in the water, etc. Not exactly a dignified arrival to shore. If it's truly shallow, walk it home? 

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12 hours ago, martin.langhoff said:

Downwind in 20kt with no main foil is a hard one. Is it due to shallows? If not, keep the mainfoil down, the boat needs the lift it provides. If yes... depower the rig, sit as far back as possible -- which you were doing -- or body surf behind the boat (ie: drag your legs in the water, etc. Not exactly a dignified arrival to shore. If it's truly shallow, walk it home? 

How to depower the rig on the water?

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7 hours ago, Gilles29 said:

How to depower the rig on the water?

Ease the shroud tension somewhat, and tighten the cunningham.  Then tighten the outhaul. This will flatten the sail and let the top of the mast bend off.  If you are doing this to try to go dead downwind with the mainfoil raised, you will still face problems.   The rudder is trying to lift the boat, so dial in as little angle of attack as possible to reduce stern lift from the rudder.  If the wind is too high, there are conditions where you simply can not sail dead downwind without the mainfoil down to prevent pitchpoling.  However, if it is shallow enough that you need to raise the foil, you should be able to simply walk the boat in.

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On 9/3/2019 at 4:03 AM, Gilles29 said:

In archimedean mode and with big chop in 20 knts wind, I adjusted my rudder with negative AoA, my body at the maximum aft of the boat,  but when jibing  I pitchpoled and I noticed after that the rudder was half raised.

advices  to avoid pitchpole?

With sufficient sea state gybing without pitchpoling with the mainfoil up becomes impossible. The solution is to tack instead. The key to pulling off the gybe in tough wave conditions is to get going as fast as possible on a reach or broad reach before bearing away to gybe. You want to bear away and go through the gybe as the boat starts accelerating down the face of a wave to reduce the apparent wind and pressure on the rig just like in any other dinghy. When you get through you want to head up, so you don't plow into the back of the next wave and pitchpole. That being said when the mainfoil is up and the sea state is gnarly, tacking may be the only solution.

Check out the chalk talk below on tricky landings for more info and techniques. The great thing about the UFO is the most difficult landing situation in the UFO, downwind in waves, is also the landing situation where you will drift towards shore no matter what happens. 

And watch the rest of our UFO Chalk Talks series here. If your having trouble downwind in waves,  I'd be sure to check out UFO Chalk Talks: Downwind in Waves and UFO Chalk Talks: Get Home Modes Downwind. All the videos have a table of contents in the summary, so you can go back to the discussion of any technique you'd like to review again.

-Nick

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Greetings from Waquoit Bay, Cape Cod. Hull #266 arrived two Thursdays ago.

Many thanks to Fulcrum’s Kirk Nash for making the sales and delivery process easy, and for steering me to this UFO Forum, which I have read starting at Page 1 from three years ago.

Thank you to the Clarks, the doubters, the early adopters, the test pilots who have paid dues to remove most of the guesswork; and very impressed with the Fulcrum team (DRC and Nick), patient and ready to help with any hardware and technique issues.

Since mine arrived, either too much wind for a newbie (with brains) or just enough wind to sail, marginal foiling wind at best.

I have had her out twice, and we’ve had some glitches, all that I see you have had. Lol. I am gradually getting to know and understand her. She is so stable. And in displacement mode with full foils, how she goes faster than I expected, and how well she points.

In the meantime, I am working on all the pre-flight fundamentals, making progress. Takeoff and landing, too.

I almost have the Heisman tack down, but can someone tell me the origin of the name? I can’t believe football.

Andy

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On 9/3/2019 at 2:53 PM, martin.langhoff said:

Downwind in 20kt with no main foil is a hard one. Is it due to shallows? If not, keep the mainfoil down, the boat needs the lift it provides. If yes... depower the rig, sit as far back as possible -- which you were doing -- or body surf behind the boat (ie: drag your legs in the water, etc. Not exactly a dignified arrival to shore. If it's truly shallow, walk it home? 

Yesterday, I had a similar situation on my third time out, since boat arrived 10 days ago.

That southwesterly that built to 20+ knots that they never seem to predict. I was coming in hot downwind to my beach, main foil up. Had to body surf to keep the nose up. I was timing the rudder raise to the depth, when I was abruptly stopped by a bed of kelp, and walked it the rest of the way. I have seen the chalk talk, so know what was my last resort. Would I have improved my nose down condition if the rudder was not fully deployed? And or, I have not yet played with the rudder wheel. Would changing its AoA have helped? Thanks in advance.

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3 hours ago, Andyufo said:

Would I have improved my nose down condition if the rudder was not fully deployed? And or, I have not yet played with the rudder wheel. Would changing its AoA have helped? Thanks in advance.

Sounds like you managed it as well as can be expected.  Kelp on the foils is a real pain....except when coming into shore faster than you want.  Then it acts as a soft safety net, slowing you down gently and telling you its time to get off and walk to the beach.

Raising the rudder won't help, as it will still be providing the same lifting force and will drive the bows under.  If the rudder is up enough, it gets worse as you will lose steerage and the boat will 'spin out'.  

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33 minutes ago, Champlain Sailor said:

Sounds like you managed it as well as can be expected.  Kelp on the foils is a real pain....except when coming into shore faster than you want.  Then it acts as a soft safety net, slowing you down gently and telling you its time to get off and walk to the beach.

Raising the rudder won't help, as it will still be providing the same lifting force and will drive the bows under.  If the rudder is up enough, it gets worse as you will lose steerage and the boat will 'spin out'.  

Thanks Champlain. Exactly what I thought, but was hoping someone had a something I hadn't thought of. We don't generally have a kelp issue in this bay, but it saved me this time. And it explains why I had a "heavy" rudder earlier when I was attempting to tack. An earlier pitch-poll must have cleared it. Damn. I think I should have moved the main foil from 3 to 2 or 1.

On the way in, until I am at DRC's level, I prefer to have the main foil up while negotiating all the moorings. I don't prefer tipping the boat at high speed, but I will prepare for that next time. Anything to save the foils. 

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20 hours ago, Andyufo said:

Thanks Champlain. Exactly what I thought, but was hoping someone had a something I hadn't thought of. We don't generally have a kelp issue in this bay, but it saved me this time. And it explains why I had a "heavy" rudder earlier when I was attempting to tack. An earlier pitch-poll must have cleared it. Damn. I think I should have moved the main foil from 3 to 2 or 1.

On the way in, until I am at DRC's level, I prefer to have the main foil up while negotiating all the moorings. I don't prefer tipping the boat at high speed, but I will prepare for that next time. Anything to save the foils. 

In heavier downwind conditions, I have had success getting to the beach going in reverse.  I get close to the beach sailing the boat normally, then come into irons and raise the main foil.  Then I backwind the sail and back into the beach.  If you are good at sailing in reverse (thanks great youth sailing program from my past), you can steer the boat backward toward the beach.  If gather more speed than is comfortable, simply steer the boat back into irons again to depower.  I typically ground the rudder foil slowly into the sand / mud then jump off, raise the rudder foil, and walk her in.  

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In the heavy air, downwind, back-to-the beach scenario, you can also drop the mainsail to the spreaders. Even with the sail part way down, the boat sails remarkably well downwind (it is feasible though messy to gybe) and can reach, with mainfoil up and with rudder foil up part way. It is very controllable, and it is a lot less terrifying than trying to go downwind into shallow water with the mainfoil down.

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4 minutes ago, treef said:

In the heavy air, downwind, back-to-the beach scenario, you can also drop the mainsail to the spreaders. Even with the sail part way down, the boat sails remarkably well downwind (it is feasible though messy to gybe) and can reach, with mainfoil up and with rudder foil up part way. It is very controllable, and it is a lot less terrifying than trying to go downwind into shallow water with the mainfoil down.

How do you drop the sail? I find that the angle required to pull the halyard out of the cleat makes uncleating the sail on the water quite difficult. 

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1 hour ago, treef said:

In the heavy air, downwind, back-to-the beach scenario, you can also drop the mainsail to the spreaders. Even with the sail part way down, the boat sails remarkably well downwind (it is feasible though messy to gybe) and can reach, with mainfoil up and with rudder foil up part way. It is very controllable, and it is a lot less terrifying than trying to go downwind into shallow water with the mainfoil down.

You might need to be swimming in the bow to detach the halyard from the cleat to drop it. However, I wouldn't do it. Sailing with the sail partially down (halyard eye at top of mast detached), I recently snapped my battens. You also fold and crinkle the sail in ways it probably won't like.

They aren't expensive to replace... but shipping is a challenge. Local sailmakers -- if you are lucky to have some -- will usually have batten stock you can buy and cut. You can also get cuttings and splice them back together.

Long story short, rudder 1/3 to halfway up works as long as you have some speed. Once you run aground, walk. I have a plan for an on-deck mesh bag for my water shoes -- will post pics once I have installed it.

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2 hours ago, martin.langhoff said:

You might need to be swimming in the bow to detach the halyard from the cleat to drop it. However, I wouldn't do it. Sailing with the sail partially down (halyard eye at top of mast detached), I recently snapped my battens. You also fold and crinkle the sail in ways it probably won't like.

They aren't expensive to replace... but shipping is a challenge. Local sailmakers -- if you are lucky to have some -- will usually have batten stock you can buy and cut. You can also get cuttings and splice them back together.

Long story short, rudder 1/3 to halfway up works as long as you have some speed. Once you run aground, walk. I have a plan for an on-deck mesh bag for my water shoes -- will post pics once I have installed it.

As stated, I am a newbie, only been out three times. What I was attempting to accomplish, before my rudder got tangled in kelp...

Coming in hot. Main foil up. After I clear the mooring field and am approaching the shallows, release the rudder downhaul and relock so the rudder will stop rising at 12-18 inches below waterline. The hydrodynamics does the work lifting the rudder. Turn and sheet into the wind. Jump out and drop the sail. Walk her in. Would that work?

I know now that if the wind had been any higher, I would have no choice but to have main foil down and splash the boat before the shallows.

Footwear:  I am using 3mm neoprene with padded bottom, which seems to work well in the straps or on the ground, though I did order the model that DRC recommended somewhere above.

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13 hours ago, Andyufo said:

Coming in hot. Main foil up. After I clear the mooring field and am approaching the shallows, release the rudder downhaul and relock so the rudder will stop rising at 12-18 inches below waterline. The hydrodynamics does the work lifting the rudder. Turn and sheet into the wind. Jump out and drop the sail. Walk her in. Would that work?

Precisely. Though you also have a white "braking knob" on the starboard cheek plate of your rudderhead which will also do a lot of work stopping the foil falling back down. That's your answer if you're going slow enough for gravity to overcome the vertical lift on the foil (ie light air). The final dirty trick in light air is to bounce up and down on your stern beam to get the rudder to pop up. Basically the stalled foil being bounced downward in the water creates enough resistance to drive the whole foil up in the cassette.

DRC

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45 minutes ago, Dave Clark said:

The final dirty trick in light air is to bounce up and down on your stern beam to get the rudder to pop up. Basically the stalled foil being bounced downward in the water creates enough resistance to drive the whole foil up in the cassette.

DRC

Stealing that good idea/trick; thanks.  Though my fat 185 lbs butt tries to avoid light air LOL!

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1 hour ago, Dave Clark said:

Precisely. Though you also have a white "braking knob" on the starboard cheek plate of your rudderhead which will also do a lot of work stopping the foil falling back down. That's your answer if you're going slow enough for gravity to overcome the vertical lift on the foil (ie light air). The final dirty trick in light air is to bounce up and down on your stern beam to get the rudder to pop up. Basically the stalled foil being bounced downward in the water creates enough resistance to drive the whole foil up in the cassette.

DRC

Thanks. I forgot to mention that I do use that handy braking knob both on departure as well as arrival.

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Very rusty after a season of no UFO. Had a couple of outings earlier, marred by minor gear failures, so this was the first "good" outing since... last winter. Out of ~3hs out, I probably foiled cleanly just a few minutes total. You can see it in the see-saw speed graph. So this is the "supercut" of the good moments.

Hopefully it'll all come back.

 

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Looking good martin! And while we're sharing highlight reels, get a load of this thing!
 


DRC
 

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Recent improvements on #4

- a mesh bag right behind the main crossbeams to hold gear

- a better holder for the camera pole - my sailfie stick

- measuring outhaul ... In inches from the metal arch. I read the grommet position against the measuring tape.

large.IMG_20190919_123919.jpg.4040a011ed6a81f30e250f45affb08f6.jpglarge.IMG_20190919_124438.jpg.66f963b4caf07ce72827ebe04d02df5b.jpglarge.IMG_20190919_101042.jpg.b3d843ed5f5e95e66232efc8204861c3.jpglarge.IMG_20190919_092341.jpg.713b4662a61ae4596bf7a9001161a497.jpg

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Several times after a takeoff,  my flap does not touch any more water and even that it is clearly above the level of the water, wich makes the boat a bit difficult to control... Has anyone even met this type of problem ?  

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Just now, Gilles29 said:

 

Several times after a takeoff,  my flap does not touch any more water and even that it is clearly above the level of the water, wich makes the boat a bit difficult to control... Has anyone even met this type of problem ?  

Most likely you need to add rudder lift or decrease mainfoil lift. But you may also have an actuation error in your flap. I have a PDF I can send to you which prints out on a normal printer, cut out the "jig" from the printed page and use it to measure your flap and be sure.

DRC

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6 hours ago, Dave Clark said:

Most likely you need to add rudder lift or decrease mainfoil lift. But you may also have an actuation error in your flap. I have a PDF I can send to you which prints out on a normal printer, cut out the "jig" from the printed page and use it to measure your flap and be sure.

DRC

Dave

I'm interessed by your PDF doc

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On 9/19/2019 at 1:51 PM, martin.langhoff said:

Recent improvements on #4

- a mesh bag right behind the main crossbeams to hold gear

- a better holder for the camera pole - my sailfie stick

- measuring outhaul ... In inches from the metal arch. I read the grommet position against the measuring tape.

large.IMG_20190919_123919.jpg.4040a011ed6a81f30e250f45affb08f6.jpglarge.IMG_20190919_124438.jpg.66f963b4caf07ce72827ebe04d02df5b.jpglarge.IMG_20190919_101042.jpg.b3d843ed5f5e95e66232efc8204861c3.jpglarge.IMG_20190919_092341.jpg.713b4662a61ae4596bf7a9001161a497.jpg

Martin:  I like the improvements. As a newbie, only had the boat for three weeks, I find I am most thirsty when the boat is on its side and I climb onto the lower hull/pontoon, protected from the wind, and the upper hull shading me from the sun. It's relaxing, like in a hammock. I sit and contemplate life and... What the hell just happened!!!? If only I had a drink holder underneath.

Also, I would like that pdf that DRC mentions later in thread...

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15 minutes ago, Andyufo said:

Martin:  I like the improvements. As a newbie, only had the boat for three weeks, I find I am most thirsty when the boat is on its side and I climb onto the lower hull/pontoon, protected from the wind, and the upper hull shading me from the sun. It's relaxing, like in a hammock. I sit and contemplate life and... What the hell just happened!!!? If only I had a drink holder underneath.

Also, I would like that pdf that DRC mentions later in thread...

Thru bolting a bicycle bottle holder to the underside of the deck would be a crucial hack in that case

DRC

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Glad you like it! I love a quick drink after drinking seawater from the firehose :-)

The most efficient drink holder is a bungee on the mast. There's a pic of the setup in the guide linked in my sig below.

The mesh baggie is a bit more conventional, and I put my sunscreen, and I think I'll have my rigsense there too. To put it in place I drilled only one hole on the lip join of the hull, forward of the main crossbeam. You might need to seal the hole with epoxy. All the other hooking points are standard holes or fasteners. 

The baggie is from a pair of water shoes, I added a rope which I glued to the baggie with a special epoxy glue for sails.

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10 minutes ago, Dave Clark said:

Thru bolting a bicycle bottle holder to the underside of the deck would be a crucial hack in that case

DRC

Lol. I would never do that hack! But if I was sitting there drinking a beer, or a glass of wine, all the normal sailors (unlike us) wouldn't keep driving by asking me if I'm okay.

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11 minutes ago, Andyufo said:

Lol. I would never do that hack! But if I was sitting there drinking a beer, or a glass of wine, all the normal sailors (unlike us) wouldn't keep driving by asking me if I'm okay.

Perhaps --- tuck a bottle inside the mast? 

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2 hours ago, martin.langhoff said:

Perhaps --- tuck a bottle inside the mast? 

of wine?

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Yesterday hull 263 went for it's maiden voyage in lake Pend Oreille, and it was wet, cold, at times frustrating, and also very awesome!  There were some delays in getting it from the Fulcrum team and some shipper issues (outside the control of Fulcrum) but it got here this week and yesterday it got wet.  I do want to officially thank the entire Fulcrum team for the support and communication through the build process.  

I don't have any pictures right now because the pocket in my dry top that I thought was sealed was not and after a few swims my phone is now dead...  But it was the only casualty of the day and it's about time for a new one anyhow I guess.

I was out for about three hours and the first 1.5hr was in really crummy wind, i.e. no real wind and changing directions.  However, it did finally get blowing reasonably and I was able to start really sailing.  There were some setup issues which prevented me from really getting it much out of the water but I had it totally out of the water for about 20sec before it all came over on top of me.  I had it trying to get airborne many other times but it wouldn't quite lift up all the way but it was amazing to feel how smooth it gets when it starts running on the foils a bit.  My first experience has left me with a few conclusions and a couple questions.

Conclusions:
1) I will never, ever, take my jib on my other cat for granted.  I spent a lot of time trying to get out of irons on this thing.
2) The boat does feel small when trying to manage my 6'4" frame around on it.  Manageable, but everywhere is always wet and feels like it's just one wrong lean from getting wetter.
2a) I can't sit too far forward in light variable wind because when the wind changes direction and it randomly gybes on me the sail just sweeps me right off the boat.
3) Hiking it over on top of me a touch is weird since I've only sailed an old beach cat.
4) Yes, people will look at you weird when you're the only idiot at the boat launch and rigging a small dingy in the rain in 60 deg. weather.
5) The tiller looks like a great place to put a collapsible paddle but it's a bad idea as it catches either the main sheet or the bridle when gybing.
6) Moving around the front of the mast does not work like it does on my 15' cat.  At all.
7) I like the righting handles they put on the bottom, you guys did good!

 

Questions:
1) I was not able to get the main foil into the middle hole.  I could only get it to sit in the very front too and no further aft.  I haven't had a chance to get it up in the air so i can play with it on dry ground but have any of you had this issue?  I suspect it's something simple since it's a brand new boat and I imagine this got checked at the factory before it left.  I'm just not sure what I'm missing.
2) I was trying to get 40kg on the stays per the recommendations and couldn't.  It felt like I was pulling super hard on that little line and was going to break something.  I noticed at the end of the day when I was taking down that there was now a ton of slack in the stays.  I presume everything takes some time to stretch out and tighten up?  I did the hitch over the spreaders and not under.  I figure I will reset the length of the stay above the spreader to the hounds and assume it help.
3) As the outhaul line breaks in, does it do a better job at equalizing between all the red blocks?  I have a similar question on the mast rigging as I wonder if that was part of the problem in not being able to get the 40kg on the stays.
4) Where do you guys put your collapsible paddle?  I'm leaning toward the wand arm.  It wouldn't be a convenient get to it spot but it'd be out of the way.  I saw two other boats all day yesterday on the lake so I don't want to go out without a back up way to get back to shore.
5) Anybody have a good recommendation on some dry pants?  I've got a nice dry top from kayaking but I need something on the bottom half of me and I can't pony up for a full dry suit right now.  Or is everyone just running wetsuits?  I want to sail through Nov if I can but we'll have snow in the mountains in 5-6 weeks...
6) Does the sail get easier to roll tightly such that it will go back into the bag?  It came out once, but it hasn't made it back in yet.

 

Thanks to everyone for all the information in this thread, absolutely a hug help.  And thanks to Fulcrum again.  Yesterday was a blast!

 

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On 9/20/2019 at 1:28 PM, Gilles29 said:

 

Several times after a takeoff,  my flap does not touch any more water and even that it is clearly above the level of the water, wich makes the boat a bit difficult to control... Has anyone even met this type of problem ?  

I have verified my wand, and the up-down range of my foil-push-rod is not 0,451" but is about 0,59" ... I don't know what is the impact, but could that explain the problem described in post #2129 ? I don't know how to adjust this up-down range; I did some tests, trying to shorten carbon-push-rod but that doesn't change anything... Can someone confirm that the foil-push-rod in the rest position, must not be in tension on the trim tab of the foil ?

 

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FYI,

Last time out, I tried something different for a "get out of irons quick" method.  Think of it as windsurfing a cat with a rudder.

I think I did this trick with main foil down, main foil up and various rudder depths.  It worked every time and it got the boat moving quick.  This can be real helpful if you are in irons and a tide is dragging you towards somewhere you really do not want to go (such as a dock)

Let the main sheet full out with stopper knot up against the block.

Stand up and position yourself about an arms length behind the mast.  Push the boom full out (Heisman style).  This gets the boat stationary in the water pointing close to 90° to the wind.

Instead of dropping down and working the main sheet, stay standing, pull the boom in with a firm sweeping motion using your front hand while keeping the tiller in your rear hand and rudder centered.  The big sweeping motion on the rig will get the boat moving fast enough for the rudder to start working while rounding up the boat for a nice upwind heading.  You can sail the boat upwind for short upwind tacks like this without ever using the main sheet.   Real handy for short zig zags in close quarters.

If you are trying to make headway downwind, do the same initial stuff to get the boat moving and then steer downwind and let the rig out as soon as the rudder gives you control.  As soon as you get past 90° to the wind you can easily drop down and start working the main sheet if you want.

If you are holding the boom and heading upwind, you can drop down and start pulling in the mainsheet, but you may need to be turning the boat downwind as you do this to keep up enough speed to not stall out the rudder.

 

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11 hours ago, Skid said:

Yesterday hull 263 went for it's maiden voyage in lake Pend Oreille, and it was wet, cold, at times frustrating, and also very awesome!

Wohoo! Welcome to the fleet! Congrats! There's plenty of frustration and exhilaration in the package.

Some quick notes on items I can comment

 - Yes, getting out of irons is tricky -- follow @P Flados technique above using the boom; or you can do something similar sitting down by just grabbing the sheet - both lines -- from the back of the boom to pump it quick and strong

- I'd recommend you resolve the main foil setup; it sounds really wrong that it won't go into the middle pin hole. Not that it'll break, but you can't learn to foil with the foil in the forward pin. The fulcrum team is great, and can usually give you quick solution steps if you send them an email with a good description + good pics or a video of the setup.

- shifty unsteady winds are terrible for learning, and generally unfriendly for sailing a foiler, even when you're good; gold conditions are steady ~10-12kt 

- yes you can get to 40Kg, yes check/adjust the knots on the spreaders. I use a 2 hand technique: one hand grab the rope between the cleat and the shockblock and pulls out, away from the mast, then the other hand, holding the rope from the other side of the cleat pulls up; repeat as many times as needed. Sometimes I put my foot or knee on the mast when pulling out. If you put shroud tension before cunningham, you must put your foot on the mast ring, so you don't pull the mast out of the step. 

- outhaul line -- it's been tied up by hand, it may be a little bit off. maybe the block positioning gets better, maybe not. Feel free to adjust it (with a marlin spike) now, and adjust it again when the rope stretches.

- collapsible paddle -- buy a bag of bungee loops with a ball https://www.amazon.com/Kotap-BB-6B-Bungee-6-Inch-25-Piece/dp/B00DPLM5YU -- and tie it on the foil crane.  Probably not something recommeded by fulcrum, but I use those bungees to attach all sorts of stuff on the foil crane. 

- roll the sail from the bottom up, ensuring the battens are aligned (except for the top one); this usually means rolling it from the leach. You will want to remove the top (gaff) batten to get it in the bag, or foild that bit differently. Should work. Mine rolls up ok into the original bag, but I actually keep it on the deck, under the grey ufo cover, no sail bag on it. Make sure you are not creating creases -- laminate sails are super sensitive to creasing.

There are a bunch of tricks in the Unofficial UFO Owner's Guide https://bit.ly/2KaU5Yp in case you haven't seen it yet.

And here's a video of sailing on Friday. A friend - sailing coach - came to join with his RIB to "look after me"... and try the UFO. 15-25kt, rainy. We had a blast, but ended up with a broken tiller (when capsizing, somersaulting or otherwise falling, let go of the f...ng tiller). Fixed it this morning with some advise from @burritoughs, finishing nails, fiberglass, cf, epoxy.

 

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On 9/21/2019 at 4:01 PM, P Flados said:

FYI,

Last time out, I tried something different for a "get out of irons quick" method.  Think of it as windsurfing a cat with a rudder.

(...)  Real handy for short zig zags in close quarters.

This is really interesting to me. I have a tough situation getting from the boathouse to the open lake. I need to work my way out between two sets of docks for about 500m. I have maybe 40' of clearance between them. The wind very often is coming right down the middle of that channel, either on the way out or the way back. I find that Heisman tacking this narrow channel so much work. Because that tack (as I'm doing it; maybe wrong) causes you to move backwards a bit, I need to leave a good 10' or more for backward travel. This means so many tacks to get out. It can be exhausting.

Does the method you describe have no backward creep?

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I enjoyed a really nice day of foiling on Lake Champlain yesterday in 10-15 knot winds.  I hadn't had many good foiling sessions in a few weeks and was eager to get out on the water.  The good news is I finally achieved a foiling gybe.  It wasn't perfect, as once through the gybe the hulls 'bounced' on the water surface but I made it across, got the sail across and battens popped, and was just beginning to power up before the hulls touched for a brief moment.  Close enough that I'll call it foiling!   It has been a long sought milestone for me, and I'm happy to know that it is indeed possible for mere mortals.  I followed Dave's technique, which is to be flying on a broad reach with decent speed but in control.  Squat on your feet on the rear corner of the boat, and slowly work to the center, letting the boat heal to leeward a bit.  As it heels more, steer downwind, letting the boat bank into the turn.  The end of the gybe is pretty fast, so the sail comes around and you pivot to the new windward side just as it fills.   I found it to be much easier with moderate winds (10-12) and very little chop.  

On the down side, I guess at this time of year seaweed seems to be dying and floating around the lake.  I enjoyed many long foils and found my rudder seemed to be snagging seaweed pretty regularly.  It didn't end up in a catastrophic wipeout, but I'd loose much of my steering input and the rudder would loose a good bit of its lift.  The boat would slow, go nose up, and slowly come off the foils.  A quick backup would dispatch the weed and I was off again.  A little irritating. 

I spent a lot of the time practicing making good VMG downwind. I find this the trickiest  point of sail, and am happy to find that practice seems to help!  It has not made perfect, or even close to it, but I seem to be getting more capable getting the boat downwind on its foils. 

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3 hours ago, barthrh said:

...so many tacks to get out. It can be exhausting.

Does the method you describe have no backward creep?

I sometimes sail out of a place with the same problem and it's too shallow so you often run aground. Can be infuriating.

IMHO the best tacks, with no backward drift, look like below. I can only pull it off about half of the time.

 

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3 minutes ago, martin.langhoff said:

I sometimes sail out of a place with the same problem and it's too shallow so you often run aground. Can be infuriating.

IMHO the best tacks, with no backward drift, look like below. I can only pull it off about half of the time.

What's he doing to get the boat past irons? I always stall too close to irons that the only way to get the bow around enough to pick up the new tack is the backwind & steer opposite.

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4 minutes ago, barthrh said:

What's he doing to get the boat past irons? I always stall too close to irons that the only way to get the bow around enough to pick up the new tack is the backwind & steer opposite.

  • Get the weight way astern, this will make the pivot point
  • Swiftly, apply rudder and aggressive sail trim to start the turn
  • Once you're past the wind, ease sail quickly, push it away even, or it'll stop your turn
  • Once you are at target bearing, rudder straight and big pull on mainsheet to pop battens and push forward
  • Once you have motion forward, move weight forward again

That's my understanding of the technique, anyway. Works about 50% of the time for me. In a regatta, 10% :-/

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1 minute ago, martin.langhoff said:
  • Get the weight way astern, this will make the pivot point
  • Swiftly, apply rudder and aggressive sail trim to start the turn
  • Once you're past the wind, ease sail quickly, push it away even, or it'll stop your turn
  • Once you are at target bearing, rudder straight and big pull on mainsheet to pop battens and push forward
  • Once you have motion forward, move weight forward again

Thanks! Now that I look at the video again, he really puts the back of the boat underwater and stays on the new leeward side until the boat's on the new heading.  I need to get out on a flat / light day this week (pretty much most days here this summer or choppy-as-hell) and try this out. Any thoughts on foils up/down? Early on I thought that the boat tacked better w/ the front foil up but now I think that this is wrong.

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9 minutes ago, barthrh said:

Any thoughts on foils up/down? Early on I thought that the boat tacked better w/ the front foil up but now I think that this is wrong

It probably tacks better with the foil up, but it kind of defeats the purpose. You need the foils down to track upwind :-)

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On 9/21/2019 at 11:59 PM, martin.langhoff said:

Wohoo! Welcome to the fleet! Congrats! There's plenty of frustration and exhilaration in the package.

Some quick notes on items I can comment

 - Yes, getting out of irons is tricky -- follow @P Flados technique above using the boom; or you can do something similar sitting down by just grabbing the sheet - both lines -- from the back of the boom to pump it quick and strong

- I'd recommend you resolve the main foil setup; it sounds really wrong that it won't go into the middle pin hole. Not that it'll break, but you can't learn to foil with the foil in the forward pin. The fulcrum team is great, and can usually give you quick solution steps if you send them an email with a good description + good pics or a video of the setup.

- shifty unsteady winds are terrible for learning, and generally unfriendly for sailing a foiler, even when you're good; gold conditions are steady ~10-12kt 

- yes you can get to 40Kg, yes check/adjust the knots on the spreaders. I use a 2 hand technique: one hand grab the rope between the cleat and the shockblock and pulls out, away from the mast, then the other hand, holding the rope from the other side of the cleat pulls up; repeat as many times as needed. Sometimes I put my foot or knee on the mast when pulling out. If you put shroud tension before cunningham, you must put your foot on the mast ring, so you don't pull the mast out of the step. 

- outhaul line -- it's been tied up by hand, it may be a little bit off. maybe the block positioning gets better, maybe not. Feel free to adjust it (with a marlin spike) now, and adjust it again when the rope stretches.

- collapsible paddle -- buy a bag of bungee loops with a ball https://www.amazon.com/Kotap-BB-6B-Bungee-6-Inch-25-Piece/dp/B00DPLM5YU -- and tie it on the foil crane.  Probably not something recommeded by fulcrum, but I use those bungees to attach all sorts of stuff on the foil crane. 

- roll the sail from the bottom up, ensuring the battens are aligned (except for the top one); this usually means rolling it from the leach. You will want to remove the top (gaff) batten to get it in the bag, or foild that bit differently. Should work. Mine rolls up ok into the original bag, but I actually keep it on the deck, under the grey ufo cover, no sail bag on it. Make sure you are not creating creases -- laminate sails are super sensitive to creasing.

There are a bunch of tricks in the Unofficial UFO Owner's Guide https://bit.ly/2KaU5Yp in case you haven't seen it yet.

And here's a video of sailing on Friday. A friend - sailing coach - came to join with his RIB to "look after me"... and try the UFO. 15-25kt, rainy. We had a blast, but ended up with a broken tiller (when capsizing, somersaulting or otherwise falling, let go of the f...ng tiller). Fixed it this morning with some advise from @burritoughs, finishing nails, fiberglass, cf, epoxy.

 

Nice Martin!

A few weeks ago, the first time ever the boat threw me, as I hit the water on my back, I saw the tiller extension in my hand. Having read every word of this forum, and against all survival instincts, I let it slip throw my fingers. Lol.

It is true that you have to unlearn half of conventional sailing on this boat. But I do find my windsurfing experience has been a help:  I don't feel uncomfortable putting feet under the straps, hiking and heeling to windward. 

Also, in the context of windsurfing, last time out I found controlling the boom, as mentioned on another recent post, rather than the sheet, seemed to help on the tacks. Must experiment further with that. 25 on my Bay today, so this newbie with wait.

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Gentleman,

Thank you all for the input and advice.  I have been using velcro strips instead of bungees and I'll move to the wand crane for the paddle next time for sure.

It's also good to know that the 40kg can be hit without breaking things or being right on the edge of breaking things.  I'll setup the mast this week on sawhorses and check all my lengths and adjust the knots as need be.

I'll also give the tacking and out of the iron tricks a shot too - thank you.

I have a printed copy of the Unofficial Owners Guide and it is extremely helpful.  There's some small items that I had to sort out on my own that weren't covered but they were minor and likely even more minor for those that know a bit more about sailing in general than I do.  It's invaluable as the UFO doesn't really have an instructional manual that comes with it.

I will watch the sail as well, thank you for the input.  I assumed it was pretty touchy to creases but it's good to hear confirmation.

I will let the group know what shakes out with the forward foil once it's sorted out and working to add to the general information pool.  That's this week's task so I can get out again next weekend.  Kirk and the team have been awesome and I'm sure once I get them some better info they'll get me squared right out.

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39 minutes ago, Skid said:

I have a printed copy of the Unofficial Owners Guide and it is extremely helpful.  There's some small items that I had to sort out on my own that weren't covered but they were minor and likely even more minor for those that know a bit more about sailing in general than I do.

Great to hear! Can you make a quick list of suggested edits? The guide is a community effort, and gets better when someone thinks "damn, I wish this detail was explained somewhere" ... and then posts it on this thread.

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Wind 25-30 mph on my Bay right now. UFO is sitting there on my beach, beckoning me. I wanna go, but the sail no matter how depowered...suicide.

Has the team thought up a smaller sail for such? Is it possible for foiling?

I had smaller sails for my sailboards for such conditions. Just a thought. 

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21 minutes ago, Andyufo said:

Wind 25-30 mph on my Bay right now. UFO is sitting there on my beach, beckoning me. I wanna go, but the sail no matter how depowered...suicide.

Has the team thought up a smaller sail for such? Is it possible for foiling?

I had smaller sails for my sailboards for such conditions. Just a thought. 

I went out to take the video of the high winds, and it does what it does on this bay. Calms down in a heartbeat.

 

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Andy - When I purchased my UFO from Fulcrum Kirk asked me if I wanted the smaller 'kid' sail.  I'm not sure if it's small enough to allow for big wind use but I do know they have a smaller sail sorted out now.  Maybe Dave or Nick will chime in here.

Martin - My thoughts are:
1) Some additional close up pictures of the outhaul and cunningham rigging would be helpful.  The youtube videos are nice but some close up pictures to help the sailing newbies would confirm how to do.  I know this seems elementary but it would just help the 'crap I just spent $9k on a boat (shipping and accessories) and I hope I'm doing it right' feeling.  I used several of the pictures in this thread of UFO's for sail as my confirmation in conjunction with the videos.
2) I found it way easier to get the outhaul tied on when I ran a small temporary line from the sail clew to the wishbone to hold the wishbone up while I was attaching the outhaul line to the clew.  Made it easier for my big fingers to shove the knot through the loop without having to hold the wishbone in place too.
3) Add a note explaining the problems of attaching anything to the tiller, i.e. the paddle and how it catches the sheet.  Again, probably elementary but I didn't find it was a problem until the lines got hung up and then it went from an irritant to a wet problem.
4) I had to tie an extra piece of line/webbing holding the mast down while raising the sail the first couple of times.  I ran the webbing around the mast foot and down under the bulb.  It takes a lot of work to get the sail up and when trying to push on the sail like Dave shows in the video it's really easy to accidentally push the mast out of it's seat at which point fighting the mast with a half raised sail back into it's hole is not fun.  It doesn't take much of a wrap to keep the mast down while raising the sail but that tiny bit extra hold down made the difference in getting my sail fully raised.
5) A few care/handling notes on the sail itself would be cool.  Again, for most people that have sailed before, this is probably common knowledge but my only experience with a sail up until now is a 30 year old cloth sail.
6) There is a suggestion to put silicon spray or an antiseize on the threads of the long rods.  I would recommend that the verbiage be changed from being a suggestion to being a requirement to avoid gaulling the stainless threads up.

I feel like there were a couple other items that struck me as well but I can't remember off hand.  They'll come back to me next weekend when I go out again I'm sure.  Again, those are just my newbie thoughts.

Thank you.

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59 minutes ago, Andyufo said:

Wind 25-30 mph on my Bay right now. UFO is sitting there on my beach, beckoning me. I wanna go, but the sail no matter how depowered...suicide.

Has the team thought up a smaller sail for such? Is it possible for foiling?

I had smaller sails for my sailboards for such conditions. Just a thought. 

Yes, Andy. We have a smaller, pinhead sail and it's storm sail orange. Makes the UFO much more manageable in big breeze.

Email me and I'll be happy to sell you one. Price is $650.

And here's what it looks like in use with a couple Opti sailors on board.

 

-Nick

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26 minutes ago, Skid said:

Andy - When I purchased my UFO from Fulcrum Kirk asked me if I wanted the smaller 'kid' sail.  I'm not sure if it's small enough to allow for big wind use but I do know they have a smaller sail sorted out now.  Maybe Dave or Nick will chime in here.

Martin - My thoughts are:
1) Some additional close up pictures of the outhaul and cunningham rigging would be helpful.  The youtube videos are nice but some close up pictures to help the sailing newbies would confirm how to do.  I know this seems elementary but it would just help the 'crap I just spent $9k on a boat (shipping and accessories) and I hope I'm doing it right' feeling.  I used several of the pictures in this thread of UFO's for sail as my confirmation in conjunction with the videos.
2) I found it way easier to get the outhaul tied on when I ran a small temporary line from the sail clew to the wishbone to hold the wishbone up while I was attaching the outhaul line to the clew.  Made it easier for my big fingers to shove the knot through the loop without having to hold the wishbone in place too.
3) Add a note explaining the problems of attaching anything to the tiller, i.e. the paddle and how it catches the sheet.  Again, probably elementary but I didn't find it was a problem until the lines got hung up and then it went from an irritant to a wet problem.
4) I had to tie an extra piece of line/webbing holding the mast down while raising the sail the first couple of times.  I ran the webbing around the mast foot and down under the bulb.  It takes a lot of work to get the sail up and when trying to push on the sail like Dave shows in the video it's really easy to accidentally push the mast out of it's seat at which point fighting the mast with a half raised sail back into it's hole is not fun.  It doesn't take much of a wrap to keep the mast down while raising the sail but that tiny bit extra hold down made the difference in getting my sail fully raised.
5) A few care/handling notes on the sail itself would be cool.  Again, for most people that have sailed before, this is probably common knowledge but my only experience with a sail up until now is a 30 year old cloth sail.
6) There is a suggestion to put silicon spray or an antiseize on the threads of the long rods.  I would recommend that the verbiage be changed from being a suggestion to being a requirement to avoid gaulling the stainless threads up.

I feel like there were a couple other items that struck me as well but I can't remember off hand.  They'll come back to me next weekend when I go out again I'm sure.  Again, those are just my newbie thoughts.

Thank you.

Skid:

Not sure exactly what your issues are. It's probably semantics. I think in the end, the tuning for each outing will be feel for our local conditions.

My early issues were the halyard, no matter where I stashed it, including the sail fillet pocket, would escape and attack me, and then wrap around my tiller and lock it up. The rudder downhaul, after I wrapped it up on the tiller, I found that I seem to accidentally wrap it around the traveler, again locking the rudder. The key with the UFO is the main lesson we learn in life:  don't make the same mistake twice. Lol

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6 minutes ago, burritoughs said:

 

Yes, Andy. We have a smaller, pinhead sail and it's storm sail orange. Makes the UFO much more manageable in big breeze.

Email me and I'll be happy to sell you one. Price is $650.

And here's what it looks like in use with a couple Opti sailors on board.

 

-Nick

Aha! Now I know what was going on with two kids in high winds with a combined age of 19. Emailing Nick for high wind sail.

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2 hours ago, Skid said:

Andy - When I purchased my UFO from Fulcrum Kirk asked me if I wanted the smaller 'kid' sail.  I'm not sure if it's small enough to allow for big wind use but I do know they have a smaller sail sorted out now.  Maybe Dave or Nick will chime in here.

Martin - My thoughts are:
1) Some additional close up pictures of the outhaul and cunningham rigging would be helpful.  The youtube videos are nice but some close up pictures to help the sailing newbies would confirm how to do.  I know this seems elementary but it would just help the 'crap I just spent $9k on a boat (shipping and accessories) and I hope I'm doing it right' feeling.  I used several of the pictures in this thread of UFO's for sail as my confirmation in conjunction with the videos.
2) I found it way easier to get the outhaul tied on when I ran a small temporary line from the sail clew to the wishbone to hold the wishbone up while I was attaching the outhaul line to the clew.  Made it easier for my big fingers to shove the knot through the loop without having to hold the wishbone in place too.
3) Add a note explaining the problems of attaching anything to the tiller, i.e. the paddle and how it catches the sheet.  Again, probably elementary but I didn't find it was a problem until the lines got hung up and then it went from an irritant to a wet problem.
4) I had to tie an extra piece of line/webbing holding the mast down while raising the sail the first couple of times.  I ran the webbing around the mast foot and down under the bulb.  It takes a lot of work to get the sail up and when trying to push on the sail like Dave shows in the video it's really easy to accidentally push the mast out of it's seat at which point fighting the mast with a half raised sail back into it's hole is not fun.  It doesn't take much of a wrap to keep the mast down while raising the sail but that tiny bit extra hold down made the difference in getting my sail fully raised.
5) A few care/handling notes on the sail itself would be cool.  Again, for most people that have sailed before, this is probably common knowledge but my only experience with a sail up until now is a 30 year old cloth sail.
6) There is a suggestion to put silicon spray or an antiseize on the threads of the long rods.  I would recommend that the verbiage be changed from being a suggestion to being a requirement to avoid gaulling the stainless threads up.

I feel like there were a couple other items that struck me as well but I can't remember off hand.  They'll come back to me next weekend when I go out again I'm sure.  Again, those are just my newbie thoughts.

Thank you.

I'll add some notes on those points. Couple items that merit mention here

2- I put the wishbone on my shoulder, at that point I have one hand on each side. The outhaul has a temporary stopper knot so the bungee doesn't tension it.

4 - I slacken the shrouds and put my foot through them on the mast collar to prevent pulling it out

6 - ouch! which threads got damage? 

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2) I can see shouldering the wishbone working for some people.  I rig on the trailer since I'm launching from a boat ramp so I'm standing on the boat while securing the outhaul so if I shouldering the wishbone it makes it too high.  But it's a good tip for others for sure.

4) That makes sense and I'll try that.  I've got a size 14 foot so I get a little nervous cramming it into tight places where ropes are.  I used to do some climbing so the idea of intentionally stepping on/near ropes feels a little wrong but I guess the shrouds are considered a wear item anyhow that gets inspected and replaced on condition?  How do the little loops coming out of the mast ring handle this?  I didn't see any easy way to replace those so I'm a little leary being aggressive around them.

6) We were doing a dry first fit and I had to get the channel locks to unthread the connecting rod on the rudder foil.  It wasn't super tight, but pretty tight.  Afterwards we looked and some of the threads on the connecting rod were a little flattened.  We didn't see any shavings so it's hard to say if it was from the initial thread cutting, assuming a die was used, or if it was the dry fit.  Some anti-seize fixed the problem but it's something I'm very aware of now on this rig.  Long term if it turns into a problem I'll just machine up a brass plug to fit into the hole and thread into the brass.

Another item I thought of today that would help the newbie, and this is definitely a lack of knowledge of terminology, is figuring out the batten setup.  The instructions are very clear about how many turns per batten starting from the baseline, which Nick did a good job showing in his video.  However, it took me a little to sort out which was the gaff batten.  It very well may have been me being dense and this feels like a whiny request, but a quick statement saying which batten is the gaff batten would clear up the question quickly for the novice.

I will also openly admit I got into this sport without much guidance so I'm doing a lot of learning on the go - which I do enjoy.  So I know some of my 'struggles' are self inflicted and are very part of the fun.  As Andy said, trying to not make the same mistake twice :).

 

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For those of you interested in my previous post, I found that the "windsurfing a cat" tacking thing can be executed pretty quick with a little practice.  Unlike the traditional method for recovery from being in irons, the only losses in "position over the water" are from the wind pushing the boat backwards before you are moving forward on your new tack.    

For me, I am not quick to change sides on the boat.  I tend to snag on the sail or otherwise do something that gets me to zero headway as soon as I am on the new side.  

If you are making no headway, you really need to push out the sail to get the boat pointed off of the wind anyway.  Getting to a standing position and pushing out the sail takes but a moment if you are mentally geared to do this "as needed".  As the sail is pushed out, the boat gets oriented 90° to the wind pretty much in sync with sail position.  Then you can do the sweeping pull on the boom and take off is quick. 

Again, once you get to zero headway you do not want any delay in getting the rig pushed out.  This is true for any UFO recovery from irons.  Before the rig is pushed out, the wind has an easy time pushing the boat backwards more than is desirable.  Once the rig is pushed out and the boat is at close to 90° to the wind, the boat will not be pushed downwind nearly as fast.  Unless you are fighting both wind and tidal currents (an all too regular thing for me), the "need for speed" on the part of the sailor is mostly over with the rig pushed out.    

 

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The bottom batten of my sail (the removable vertical one at the very bottom) broke. Is this batten still required / used? I recall reading that it was deleted for not adding value and just getting in the way. Second issue is that I can't easily retrieve the lower half of it... any tips?

 

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Worked on our boat tonight. Thoughts

1.  The small sail does not seem smaller. My ego got carried away and didn’t want a small sail. It seems fine. It will probably make me suck slightly less. I like the orange. It was WAY easier to hoist and something is better about the new bolt rope size.  We did not have to lube it  

2. We have an early hull and were getting a ton of water. We found cracks where they join on the starboard side. My husband cut it out with a knife and sanded and blew and put new plexus in there. Was pretty easy to spot and we think our fix should be pretty good. Not a horribly difficult repair. 

3. I think I stepped on the mast and broke a 1” piece of mast track off where the top and middle section join and I couldn’t raise the sail. We made our own fake piece out of epoxy chopped fiber and graphite and it seems to work so far. Not sure it will last long term. 

4. We bought the correct tension gauge and holy crap that thing is supposed to be tight. We never got to 40. We did have to make adjustments to our spreader shroud attachment knots because they weren’t high enough and the spreaders were being pulled down. I also had to adjust the starboard bottom shroud attachment to the round harken thing by a half inch to get them even. 

If your rig doesn’t literally pluck like a guitar string it’s not tight enough.  

6. The Cunningham is supposed to go way tighter than I’ve been doing it. Bottom sail ring 5.5” from the mast ring is a great guide. 

7. Out hounds ripped off the mast track and wedged. My husband cut the old plexus out and reglued it and machined a new slot/bevel so the hounds don’t try to go behind the mast track.  All per Nicks helpful instructions. We think it should last.

8. I am so glad our boat is now on a trailer. So much better in every way. Cartopping is for the birds.  Nice Yakima truck rack for sale. :)

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Claire1000 said:

2. We have an early hull and were getting a ton of water. We found cracks where they join on the starboard side. My husband cut it out with a knife and sanded and blew and put new plexus in there. Was pretty easy to spot and we think our fix should be pretty good. Not a horribly difficult repair. 

 

 

 

Same issue here. Where specifically did you find the cracks? Just how obvious are they? My port hull gathers a couple of litres at least.

 

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19 minutes ago, barthrh said:

The bottom batten of my sail (the removable vertical one at the very bottom) broke. Is this batten still required / used? I recall reading that it was deleted for not adding value and just getting in the way. Second issue is that I can't easily retrieve the lower half of it... any tips?

 

The vertical foot batten is not strictly necessary, but the boat performs much better with it installed. Without the vertical foot batten, the mainsail will not seal to the deck, which will reduce the performance of the boat and make it harder to foil in marginal conditions. 

You can wrap fiberglass around the batten to put it back together. I recommend using West System G/flex 650 toughened epoxy as you want the repaired batten to bend, not break. Alternatively, you can make a new batten by cutting down whatever batten stock you have laying around the garage. If you want to build a new batten to production specifications, just cut-down a Mk1 Laser batten to the right length. We use the same batten stock. Finally, you can always buy a new batten (or two) from us. Price is $14.29. Email me, if you'd like buy one. 

Getting the bottom part of the batten out is a real PITA. You need to push up from the bottom of the batten and milk the batten pocket around the broken piece of batten. The broken end of the batten may catch on seams inside the batten pocket. If that happens you can stick another batten into the sail between the side of the batten pocket and the broken batten to prevent it from catching in the seam. The ideal maneuver might be to have two battens, rulers or other flat things that fit in the batten pocket on either side of the top of the broken batten before you start pushing it out, so it can't catch on a seam.

-Nick

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13 minutes ago, barthrh said:

Same issue here. Where specifically did you find the cracks? Just how obvious are they? My port hull gathers a couple of litres at least.

 

Where the top and bottom of the hull meet. Just where the main deck comes in perpendicularly. I can email you a pic if you want. We emailed ours to Nick and he confirmed that was probably where it was leaking. Will know when we get it back on the water. It flowed from there we think when we turned it on it’s side after sailing. I spend a lot of time with various parts of the boat that shouldn’t be submerged being submerged  

My husband said the stuff that came out was really soft so probably some curing issue. 

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And working a broken batten out sucks. Get a drink and wiggle wiggle wiggle. Getting stuff on the sides didn’t work for me. Be grateful it’s a short batten. I broke the end of my like 7’ Johnson 18 full batten off and it took me i think 3 hours total to get it out. 

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6 hours ago, Skid said:

 

Another item I thought of today that would help the newbie, and this is definitely a lack of knowledge of terminology, is figuring out the batten setup.  The instructions are very clear about how many turns per batten starting from the baseline, which Nick did a good job showing in his video.  However, it took me a little to sort out which was the gaff batten.  It very well may have been me being dense and this feels like a whiny request, but a quick statement saying which batten is the gaff batten would clear up the question quickly for the novice.

.

 

Yes a litlle drawing would help well :)

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Made some updates to the guide based on recent discussion. I'm tempted to make a video of how I rig the boat, from remove the cover" to sailing...

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2 hours ago, martin.langhoff said:

Made some updates to the guide based on recent discussion. I'm tempted to make a video of how I rig the boat, from remove the cover" to sailing...

Awesome work Martin !  it will be very usefull

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10 hours ago, Gilles29 said:

Yes a litlle drawing would help well :)

Ya. I always thought the gaff batten is the top batten. Is that true? I tuned up my battens according to Nick's video, but found I had to back off the second batten down 2 half turns and the third batten by 1 half turn. I just couldn't get those two to pop until the change. My thought is that every boat/sail is a little different. You know, no two Gibson guitars are exactly the same.

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23 hours ago, Andyufo said:

Aha! Now I know what was going on with two kids in high winds with a combined age of 19. Emailing Nick for high wind sail.

So I ordered the pinhead sail, which is en route. I think it will be perfect for this newbie in the strong autumn winds on my bay. Just that it is not sanctioned for racing with the big boys. Give me another season and I will bring the big squarehead sail and win. Lol

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For anyone getting water in the hulls, I used my shop vac in blow mode held up to a drain plug hole.  You do not need a seal at the connection, just an air supply that can provide plenty of volume.

With just a little pressure in the hulls it was easy to find my big leak (one of the holes on the back top/bottom join).  I could feel the air whistling out.

I sprayed soapy water on other places I was worried about, but did not find anything else worth worrying about.

An air mattress inflater would also work pretty good.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Andyufo said:

Ya. I always thought the gaff batten is the top batten. Is that true?

It is true. Or at least that's what I mean when I say gaff batten.

The squarehead mainsail is just the modern equivalent of the gaff rig, so the top batten, which goes up and out at an angle like a gaff, is the gaff batten. 

-Nick

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8 minutes ago, burritoughs said:

It is true. Or at least that's what I mean when I say gaff batten.

The squarehead mainsail is just the modern equivalent of the gaff rig, so the top batten, which goes up and out at an angle like a gaff, is the gaff batten. 

-Nick

Yes and yes. And I've added a clarification on the unofficial hitchhiker's guide to the UFO...

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Calling all San Francisco (Bay Area) UFO Owners! 

Cal Sailing Club and I are planning on getting our UFO's together this Sunday (9/29) at the Berkeley Marina for a bit of fun and learning.

The weather (Wind, Tides, and Temperature) looks absolutely perfect.  And I'm tired of jealously watching videos of the New England and Florida folks foiling around together!

So, if any of you are interested in joining, please PM me for more information.

-Colin

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, colinparker said:

Calling all San Francisco (Bay Area) UFO Owners! 

Cal Sailing Club and I are planning on getting our UFO's together this Sunday (9/29) at the Berkeley Marina for a bit of fun and learning.

The weather (Wind, Tides, and Temperature) looks absolutely perfect.  And I'm tired of jealously watching videos of the New England and Florida folks foiling around together!

So, if any of you are interested in joining, please PM me for more information.

-Colin

Colin, sounds awesome. Good to see the SF Bay fleet coming together. 

For those of you in New England, it’s the last regatta of the summer this weekend at Cedar Point Yacht Club in Westport, CT. Sign up here.

Finally, I emailed every UFO owner (or more accurately every UFO owner for whom I have a valid email address) a survey yesterday. The survey will help us connect you with other UFO pilots in your area, so you can go foiling together. It will also help us tailor the events we organize to our owner’s preferences. If you haven’t filled it out yet, please do so. If you didn’t receive the survey, please email me. I can make sure you’re included on all the updates we send our owners. 

-Nick

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Quick poll - ratchet on the mainsheet block... ?

  • On
  • Off
  • On when X happens (ie: more than K knots)

Personally, I just found that switching it off improved things significantly, but have only used it in light winds. Irrationally tempted to glue the switch in the off position.

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14 hours ago, martin.langhoff said:

Quick poll - ratchet on the mainsheet block... ?

  • On
  • Off
  • On when X happens (ie: more than K knots)

Personally, I just found that switching it off improved things significantly, but have only used it in light winds. Irrationally tempted to glue the switch in the off position.

Always on. I may have unique hands though


DRC

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2 hours ago, Dave Clark said:

Always on. I may have unique hands though

Interesting. Maybe my sheet is too grippy and snug in the ratchet block, and won't ease easily enough.

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I have tried the main block both ways and am leaning toward off, but not sure yet. 

Of course the above really means nothing at this point.  Ask me again If/when I get to regular controlled foiling,    

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7 minutes ago, P Flados said:

I have tried the main block both ways and am leaning toward off, but not sure yet. 

Of course the above really means nothing at this point.  Ask me again If/when I get to regular controlled foiling,    

I'm with you Flados. I jumped the gun before my boat arrived several weeks ago, and acquired waterproof earbuds so I can stream a UFO playlist while I'm foiling, which would drown out the ratchet (no pun intended). So far, I need to waterproof myself, and the sound of the ratchet is soothing. It's the only thing talking to me, while I am learning in solitude. Lol. I am having fun with this challenge.

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