Doug Lord

Steve and Dave Clarks Unidentified Foiling Object

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You've missed a lot going on in here, haven't you?

 

[snip]

 

but there's no way they'd be anywhere near the target cost.

 

Mmm, Its probably inevitable that if you shave every last dollar off the cost there's a tendency to look as if you've been shaving dollars off the cost. But its just like weight saving: you don't need to compromise on it very much before you find you've compromised it completely.

 

There's certainly a place for immaculate super elegant boutique craft, and the Clarks have built plenty of them. However that place represents maybe about three boats a year and does exactly nothing to grow the sport. Even more so now that western society is tending to split into an executive class with loads of resources (who would tend to run status filled leadmines) and the vast body of people who can barely afford a boat at all.

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Well, in truth, this boat is a foil with a different platform and sail...same as Moth and to me, just not my cuppa.

 

I was raised with I-14s and keel boats...and some big square riggers. OD and "go-fasts" were fun and we all knew there was a limit to how fast, even Clarke at Vangard...These swabs get older, they will become more conventional...so what have we?

 

Helmets to sail? No! Never! Only helmets to fly!

 

Aside from getting above the chop, not much with foiling for me, and certainly not practical.

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As promised.

What two boat stuff we got on camera is in the last minute

 

DRC

Great video. Thanks for posting it Dave. You know I am a fan so I hope some further comments below are helpful...

 

You said at foiling week the a boat that can't foil upwind is not a foiler. And I have every reason to believe that that the UFO can foil up and down wind and tack and gybe (even if not on foils) through reasonable angles. But videos all show folks out blasting around on reaches (beam, close or broad). It looks like fun and a cool boat to own just for that so again, I am a fan. But...

 

Could you please put up some video to show our racing friends that the UFO is/should be a serious real consideration an OD racing boat and rather than just blasting around on reaches? I have no doubt it IS a boat that can foil around ww/lw course but please put up a video that shows the boat doing that.

 

Drop in windward and leeward mark in the water or use some gov marks and take some video from a distanceand show the boat foiling and making progress to each (ww and lw marks) along with the relative tacking or gybing angles. I don't think people will care if there is not yet enough experience to pull off foiling tacks and gybes but offer for consideration that it would be helpful to see that the boat can foil both up and down wind.

 

Extra points when doing it on a laser course and blowing past them. :D

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Well, in truth, this boat is a foil with a different platform and sail...same as Moth and to me, just not my cuppa.

 

I was raised with I-14s and keel boats...and some big square riggers. OD and "go-fasts" were fun and we all knew there was a limit to how fast, even Clarke at Vangard...These swabs get older, they will become more conventional...so what have we?

 

Helmets to sail? No! Never! Only helmets to fly!

 

Aside from getting above the chop, not much with foiling for me, and certainly not practical.

 

 

too many weeds in Mn anyway.

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Ok. Lots of questions, busy as hell processing inquiries. Very little time. Here we go!

#310: Contact fuclrumspeedworks@gmail.com
#311: Data limited. Need to spend more time speed testing with Charlie Enright to know for sure.
#313: yes. It's not a boat if it doesn't maneuver.
#315: Nope. Cost and performance were our two core objectives. I have a friend who made the worlds nicest electric guitar. Every one produced was a masterpiece. People still managed to find complaints with it and he went bankrupt.
#321: A+
#323: When we get the time. I've also got plans for drone shots, demonstrating how the bare hull works as a SUP, a closeup walkthrough of the boat and a massive update to the website (in progress right now). Honestly, it's a miracle we get any content out there at all given how much stuff there is to do.

Cheers,

DRC

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Raz'r, Actually, you are correct and weeds are worsening...Lake Mich is best...and your tune will change in time. Glad to see Clark has kept up, though I note he is not on water...time decides for most of us. Foils I like to watch...not ride. Not pooh-poohing his idea. Just do not hold fascination for me like more traditional rigs.

 

You get to it, foils are one thing, what you "sail" on is another but seemingly unrelated in some ways.

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Raz'r, Actually, you are correct and weeds are worsening...Lake Mich is best...and your tune will change in time. Glad to see Clark has kept up, though I note he is not on water...time decides for most of us. Foils I like to watch...not ride. Not pooh-poohing his idea. Just do not hold fascination for me like more traditional rigs.

 

You get to it, foils are one thing, what you "sail" on is another but seemingly unrelated in some ways.

 

 

Oh, and I forgot the jumping carp. It would be downright hazardous to try to foil in Mn....

 

 

(That was just joshing with ya. I can't get one of the UFOs this year due to unforeseen foundation work. As David said, paraphrased "Much concrete, no joy for you")

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The Americans have finally created a sailboat the rest of the world might buy, oh Lord a people's foiler.

 

So why is this in Dinghy Anarchy when it should be in Multihull Anarchy?

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Been Lyn? what is in the air above the foils makes a difference? Won't be long aerodynamics for real and so will make the difference. Ooops jumping carp landed on part hull, after it killed the mate.

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Been Lyn? what is in the air above the foils makes a difference? Won't be long aerodynamics for real and so will make the difference. Ooops jumping carp landed on part hull, after it killed the mate.

 

It's a catamaran, not that there is anything wrong with that, it makes it more elegant to launch and retrieve compared to the moth.

 

As for what flies through the air people believe all sorts of things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buraq

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I wish this Dave Clark all the best with his latest project however I have a number of issues.

 

In his foiling week presentation he goes on about how sailing is dying because boats are not fast enough. If this was true surely we would all be sailing catamarans. I don't know the stats but where many people sail catamarans and foiling boats just won't work due to space and water depth. Only a small part of my joy comes from the speed of sailing, it is the boat on boat fights that are fun and at that point speed is irrelevant. He was implying, with not to to much subtleness, that any one who likes sailing slowly was an idiot which is highly offensive to you average dinghy sailor. His comparison between sailing boat speed and cost with computer games is hilarious for someone who claims to have studied economics.

 

Dave Clark is a very good sailor, 5th in the IC worlds, and you can see he is fighting it like a bucking bronco, this is not a mass market skilled boat.

 

I would like to see an end view of it compared to a moth but I think the angle of heel it can get to before the leeward hull did in is considerably less than a moth during in a wing. The inability to take much of an angle of heel will make it hard to sail.

 

Weight comes from the surface area of the thing you build, compared to a moth this thing has to be heavy or weak.

 

Boy is it ugly, looks like a cheap peddlelo, speed has to come with beauty.

 

As others have said let's see some sailing rather than a promo video of him goofing off wind.

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This old bastard reckons that is very cool and would probably buy one. However that raised centrline panel might be a worry with how the back would handle having legs sitting higher than hips, would I believe be an issue for those of a more mature years.

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I wish this Dave Clark all the best with his latest project however I have a number of issues.

 

In his foiling week presentation he goes on about how sailing is dying because boats are not fast enough. If this was true surely we would all be sailing catamarans. I don't know the stats but where many people sail catamarans and foiling boats just won't work due to space and water depth. Only a small part of my joy comes from the speed of sailing, it is the boat on boat fights that are fun and at that point speed is irrelevant. He was implying, with not to to much subtleness, that any one who likes sailing slowly was an idiot which is highly offensive to you average dinghy sailor. His comparison between sailing boat speed and cost with computer games is hilarious for someone who claims to have studied economics.

 

Dave Clark is a very good sailor, 5th in the IC worlds, and you can see he is fighting it like a bucking bronco, this is not a mass market skilled boat.

 

I would like to see an end view of it compared to a moth but I think the angle of heel it can get to before the leeward hull did in is considerably less than a moth during in a wing. The inability to take much of an angle of heel will make it hard to sail.

 

Weight comes from the surface area of the thing you build, compared to a moth this thing has to be heavy or weak.

 

Boy is it ugly, looks like a cheap peddlelo, speed has to come with beauty.

 

As others have said let's see some sailing rather than a promo video of him goofing off wind.

I mean no disrespect, but this is the kind of thinking that has led to the median age of active sailors going from under 40 to almost 60 in the past generation or two. If you believe the Clark's are on the wrong track, what do you think would revive sailing for the generations after Boomers? The status quo hasn't worked for a generation or two...

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Midpack, Tink has a right to his view, just as you and Clark do. I happen to think foiling is fun to watch, but not for me...as noted, too complicated, etc.

 

I personally much prefer moving along the water like the Islanders...and being able to leave the tiller on occasion to open a beer, without courting immigrant disaster...

 

Clark and son are having fun, I hope, and so are lots of other sailors, older and younger...

 

We do grow old too soon and too late smart.

 

Nature has Her way of balancing things, besides the pocketbook.

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I would like to see an end view of it compared to a moth but I think the angle of heel it can get to before the leeward hull did in is considerably less than a moth during in a wing. The inability to take much of an angle of heel will make it hard to sail.

 

 

From my moth experience, this is a not something which will make ufo harder than monohull foilers. In a moth/waszp, as soon as you heel a bit to leeward, you crash off the foil anyway. From info/video, the ufo platform looks really easy to handle in "normal" sailing conditions. I hope be able to try one in europe next year.

 

I agree with that it looks pretty aweful from an aestetic point if view, but that's in the eye of the beholder I guess.

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When I was learning to sail, I was advised:

 

"If it looks good, it is good; if it doesn't look good, it isn't good!"

 

Referred to sail shape, but I sort of moved it further, natch. Aesthetics does bear, though it is often subjective.

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Midpack, Tink has a right to his view, just as you and Clark do. I happen to think foiling is fun to watch, but not for me...as noted, too complicated, etc.

 

I personally much prefer moving along the water like the Islanders...and being able to leave the tiller on occasion to open a beer, without courting immigrant disaster...

 

Clark and son are having fun, I hope, and so are lots of other sailors, older and younger...

 

We do grow old too soon and too late smart.

 

Nature has Her way of balancing things, besides the pocketbook.

By all means, my "no disrespect" statement was sincere. But sailing participation is in decline and the median age has increased dramatically - doesn't bode well for the future of sailing. It seems the only growth in sailing has been in windsurfing, kitesurfing and foiling. I applaud the Clark's and others who are trying to appeal to younger generations of sailors. Juniors graduating from the program model based on Opti's, 420's and the like are no longer producing sailing adults. And people have tried to rejuvenate that model for decades without results. Time to tweak, maybe revolutionize, the junior model and adult boats?

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Thank you, midpack. That's pretty much the deal. We're trying to increase retention by introducing a new affordable lifespan boat, in the image of the laser or hobie 16.

 

To the above comments from Tink which simply depress and demoralize me too much to quote, what did I ever do to you? All I've tried to do is introduce something that gets me my opti friends back into dinghy sailing and apparently I've caused you some sort of deep offense to the point that you're willing to speculate as negatively as possible about even our engineering. For what it's worth, I'm actually an average to bad sailor. But all the other kids my age had trouble getting equipment and time to pursue skill development and went on to find other sports. So I'm where I am relative to them by default. I'm one of the lucky ones. My dad built me boats, tought me how to build my own and financed extensive travel for racing. If you knew me, you'd know my strength is in boathandling which is a direct outcome of getting more time with the equipment than others. I set out on this project because I know I'm not special and I got sick of being congratulated for being a beneficiary of attrition.

 

I had no intention of calling anybody stupid. In fact I posited the opposite during the presentation, when suggesting that sailors are rational consumers who often compromise taste for value. Maybe I should have been clearer. I have a habit for rambling. Some people prefer slow boats, like Bobbill with his Kite Dinghy. My mother prefers going slow and thinks that foiling looks scary. Neither bob, not my mom are stupid. However leaving a firm linkage between cost and performance at the bottom end of the price spectrum in dinghy sailing only works under one condition:sheer conincidence has put all the people who don't care for performance into that income bracket. That simply isn't true. So something has to be done to offer performance to the large body of sailors (mostly young) who are stranded in that cost bracket with no high performance option. We ground away at that problem and this is what we got. I'm sorry you think it's ugly and doesn't work. I think it has a toylike charm, has made sailing fun for me again, and I sail it twice a week.

 

DRC

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I would like to see an end view of it compared to a moth but I think the angle of heel it can get to before the leeward hull did in is considerably less than a moth during in a wing. The inability to take much of an angle of heel will make it hard to sail.

 

From my moth experience, this is a not something which will make ufo harder than monohull foilers. In a moth/waszp, as soon as you heel a bit to leeward, you crash off the foil anyway. From info/video, the ufo platform looks really easy to handle in "normal" sailing conditions. I hope be able to try one in europe next year.

 

I agree with that it looks pretty aweful from an aestetic point if view, but that's in the eye of the beholder I guess.

 

As you pointed out, heeling to leeward is probaly less of a problem than in a moth. Wonder though how easily the windward hull touches the water when foiling upwind in a bit of chop. Anyways, there will always be some compromises

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Well, the nice thing about business is that if someone thinks they can build something (in this case a cool Foiler) that is better, more comfortable, easier to sail / foil, more elegant (i.e. Not ugly), cheaper, has all questions and anticipated questions answered before public disclosure and make mint of money, there's nothing stopping anyone! Go for it and be sure to be transparent with the process.

 

I found the foiling week presentation to be great and was not offended should I sail a "slow" boat (speaking of speed the DN is ready and waiting for ice). Anything to get more people on the water!

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Dave: The haters are always there. A little tip for dealing with the emotions they bring up: You can pretty easily tell how old a person is by how they write, and if they seem to be over 40, you can pretty much ignore anything they say. The old guys have already had their chance to fix things and failed miserably. Now it's your turn.

 

And yeah, the boat could use a bit of a facelift, provided it can happen without the price point changing much. Crucially, while an ugly boat may make it a bit tougher to sell, it won't necessarily ruin its' commercial success (see e.g. Sunfish) as a 10,000+ unit project. A boat that's priced outside of the crucial segment and price point, no matter how beautiful and fast and easy, will never, ever get there (see e.g. a thousand other designs).

 

 

 

Thank you, midpack. That's pretty much the deal. We're trying to increase retention by introducing a new affordable lifespan boat, in the image of the laser or hobie 16.

To the above comments from Tink which simply depress and demoralize me too much to quote, what did I ever do to you? All I've tried to do is introduce something that gets me my opti friends back into dinghy sailing and apparently I've caused you some sort of deep offense to the point that you're willing to speculate as negatively as possible about even our engineering. For what it's worth, I'm actually an average to bad sailor. But all the other kids my age had trouble getting equipment and time to pursue skill development and went on to find other sports. So I'm where I am relative to them by default. I'm one of the lucky ones. My dad built me boats, tought me how to build my own and financed extensive travel for racing. If you knew me, you'd know my strength is in boathandling which is a direct outcome of getting more time with the equipment than others. I set out on this project because I know I'm not special and I got sick of being congratulated for being a beneficiary of attrition.

I had no intention of calling anybody stupid. In fact I posited the opposite during the presentation, when suggesting that sailors are rational consumers who often compromise taste for value. Maybe I should have been clearer. I have a habit for rambling. Some people prefer slow boats, like Bobbill with his Kite Dinghy. My mother prefers going slow and thinks that foiling looks scary. Neither bob, not my mom are stupid. However leaving a firm linkage between cost and performance at the bottom end of the price spectrum in dinghy sailing only works under one condition:sheer conincidence has put all the people who don't care for performance into that income bracket. That simply isn't true. So something has to be done to offer performance to the large body of sailors (mostly young) who are stranded in that cost bracket with no high performance option. We ground away at that problem and this is what we got. I'm sorry you think it's ugly and doesn't work. I think it has a toylike charm, has made sailing fun for me again, and I sail it twice a week.

DRC

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DRC. you are kewl...always a process, isn't it?

 

Pittman had a saying about the many one-designs that fit the different views, but cannot dredge it up...published OD Yachtsman magazine and later OD and Offshore Yachtsman...mag. Dang, have not thought of it for decades...gotta find it. I used to play with 14s then...

 

DN rig in Montana...whoa, gotta luv it, way fast...

 

Used to have a few here, but snow in recent years and warm spring seasons have dampened those babies...Had some on Pepin for a bit, but now mostly the big jobs...after freeze...short season now.

 

Like to see soft wing on DN...only sad thing is no room for swill chest aboard...

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Say, Mr. Clean, you called the spot "Anarchy" and it helps to have an open mind, methinks!

 

And, if you get there...you just might share...

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DRC,

I had no intention of offending, I said at the start I wish you the best.

 

In your foiling week lecture I felt you were insulting to slow sailors but you have made your position much clearer now.

 

I was just giving you my opinion and please see this as market feedback, it is not intended as a personal attack. An average to bad sailor does not come 5th in the IC worlds, there are parts of the video where you do make it look like you are on a bucking bronco. Perhaps you should be more selective of what footage you put out into the public domain. Take this as an observation not a critism, be honest with yourself, are there times when you have control issues can you overcome them some way. Your intentions are good but if only a select few can sail it you are in trouble, that is the point I was making.

 

As many have said above It needs to be seen on all points of sail and manoeuvres.

 

It is in my opinion ugly, if you want to appeal to younger sailors it has got to look seedy. The hull to deck joining is brutal, old-fashioned and looks really cheap. I fully understand the desire to be the next laser / Hobie 16 but not with 1960/70s styling. Boats like the Aero and D-zero appeal because they look ultra modern. Again see this as feed back not critism.

 

Having spent 15 years getting no where in a high speed thrill machine I now sail a slow boat and wish I had done it years ago. What to do with dinghy sailing is complex question. No two people's needs are the same, but to me words like, equality, reliability and ecconomy, simplicity and comfort come way up the list before speed.

 

When I was your age I had a boat development company and I designed, built and developed the replacement for the laser. Clearly that did not happen but it was a great journey and within a month of stopping I had 3 job offers and had a great career after that. Products I have designed have sold in there millions so I know a little bit about successfully designing products. I am not bitter and that is my motivation for the post, I have no regrets and had a great time.

 

Please not be offended by critism, take it on board in a positive way, better that an old fart tells you how he sees it and you improve the design than you just look at the good stuff sell a few and then the sales dry up

 

As I say all the best

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I loved what Dave Clarke said in the video about getting up higher. I moved from Lasers to Windsurfers a few years ago, standing up and being higher just changes everything somehow. Never going back but could go forwards onto this.

 

The other thing I like about this boat/aeroplane is its familiarity, rig is like my windsurfer, hulls like many cats I've seen, moving it around looks just like a normal small dinghy/beach cat. Stability seems compatible with my skill level, handing seems that way too.

 

Hull to deck joint looks strong and something to hold onto. Once sailed a beach cat with the same arrangement. Good bit of production engineering.

 

Familiarity and compatibility are really important. This ticks both boxes.

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In his foiling week presentation he goes on about how sailing is dying because boats are not fast enough. If this was true surely we would all be sailing catamarans. I don't know the stats but where many people sail catamarans and foiling boats just won't work due to space and water depth. Only a small part of my joy comes from the speed of sailing, it is the boat on boat fights that are fun and at that point speed is irrelevant. He was implying, with not to to much subtleness, that any one who likes sailing slowly was an idiot which is highly offensive to you average dinghy sailor. His comparison between sailing boat speed and cost with computer games is hilarious for someone who claims to have studied economics.

 

Dave Clark is a very good sailor, 5th in the IC worlds, and you can see he is fighting it like a bucking bronco, this is not a mass market skilled boat.

 

I would like to see an end view of it compared to a moth but I think the angle of heel it can get to before the leeward hull did in is considerably less than a moth during in a wing. The inability to take much of an angle of heel will make it hard to sail.

 

Weight comes from the surface area of the thing you build, compared to a moth this thing has to be heavy or weak.

 

Boy is it ugly, looks like a cheap peddlelo, speed has to come with beauty.

 

As others have said let's see some sailing rather than a promo video of him goofing off wind.

 

Sailing does have a high cost of entry when buying new. So far there hasn't been a boat interesting enough for me to plan and put a good chunk of money into it. My options (and budget) have been limited generally to boats as old as myself which as fun as they might be to sail on windy days require more and more maintenance to keep them going, a prospect that isn't interesting in the long run.

Buying a laser new or old never appealed to me.

Old skiffs do the trick but age does become an issue.

And I don't have 15k sitting around for a new single-handed skiff/canoe.

 

For a boat that has similar weight and performance to a waszp, is less expensive, more stable, easier to launch. It's a no-brainer for me.

Speed and sailing have to come with utility or the sport will continue atrophying.

 

Expect my cheque in the mail soon Dave.

Don't let these guys get you down.

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Question..... Given that the foil is forward of the sail,the relative Centre of efforts of both must result in some wicked weather helm. Or have I missed something?

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the relative Centre of efforts of both must result in some wicked weather helm. Or have I missed something?

 

The cruising/home build fraternity get enormously excited about weather helm, but for a boat sailed upright its pretty much a myth. If the hull is out of the water probably even more so! Every modern dinghy is sailed with the side loads balanced between rudder and centreboard. If the rig moves forward a bit the centreboard takes more load, if the rig moves back a bit the rudder takes more load. The load increase/decrease on the rudder is normally a fraction of a degree of angle of incidence more or less, or, at design stage, the rudder can be made larger or smaller. That's why you see so many one design classes sailing quite happily with mast rake utterly different from what the designer intended, and those classes that have adjustable rigging can rake the mast back and forward spectacular amounts. If the boat is leaning over at 45 degrees and the hull is trying to steer the boat in a 5 hull length radius circle its quite another matter of course.

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Question..... Given that the foil is forward of the sail,the relative Centre of efforts of both must result in some wicked weather helm. Or have I missed something?

Partially correct. You feel some weight in your hand. I found, partially by accident, when I was building my last canoe, that unbalancing the rudder for a little weather helm makes a fast boat tamer and track better. The logic is pretty simple. At some point your arm and hand are better at keeping an object steady when they have something to pull against. You're not trying to hover your hand in space as you would with a perfectly balanced tiller. Once you're in the high teens in boatspeed and you get a chance to test the balanced rudder against the slightly weighted one it's palpable how much directional instability is eliminated by that little gain in muscle tension. That makes the boat a little less scary and also increases the quality of tracking by helping you iron out any careening. Speed becomes velocity.

 

When it came to designing the UFO we took that as a win-win since rule 1 of learning to fly, paraphrased from Nate Outeridge is "sheet for heel. Steer straight." if you consider the increases toppling consequences of excessive steering while way up on the air, you may see the point. Its a bit like learning to bicycle. You need to go straight first. We've put some quite tiny young sailors in the boat and they've made no comment on it, so it seems to pass as an acceptably easy tiller weight.

 

DRC

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share? Anarchy is fine, and everyone can pretty much say what they think. Dealing with Anarchy though is another story. ;)

 

 

Say, Mr. Clean, you called the spot "Anarchy" and it helps to have an open mind, methinks!

 

And, if you get there...you just might share...

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Being a pundit myself, I know better than to go tete-a-tete with someone who has barrels of ink...(old idea)...even when they rationalize...no problem for this dodger, however. I get it!

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On the weather helm issue, it has been found with the new foiling A's that you need to set the boat up with a little weather helm. Those who prefer a light helm find it weird upwind, but without that feel in the helm, the boat is almost unmanageable downwind. I suspect that what Dave says about it being easier to steer if there is some load to steer against. With the Moth, people use shockcord to create that load.

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Dave: The haters are always there. A little tip for dealing with the emotions they bring up: You can pretty easily tell how old a person is by how they write, and if they seem to be over 40, you can pretty much ignore anything they say. The old guys have already had their chance to fix things and failed miserably. Now it's your turn.

 

Thank you, midpack. That's pretty much the deal. We're trying to increase retention by introducing a new affordable lifespan boat, in the image of the laser or hobie 16.

 

DRC

 

While I agree the overwhelming majority of over 50 sailors yearn for the "good old days" of sailing, to my ongoing dismay, there are exceptions. I've expressed my admiration for what the Clarks are trying to do, and their performance/cost design brief, and I'm well past 60 years old. Surprise!

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Well I'm 67 and I think what Dave and Steve have done and are doing is exceptional innovation at a time when the sport needs it. I've sailed, raced and built boats all my life-the last 25 or so I've learned a lot about foiling and what a cool thing it is to fly under sail. The UFO has a good chance of being the Peoples Foiler and will bring the opportunity to foil to a much larger population than ever before. I wish them good luck with their exceptional little boat-the coolest foiler yet!

 

 

2lctrit.jpg

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Well I'm 67 and I think what Dave and Steve have done and are doing is exceptional innovation at a time when the sport needs it. I've sailed, raced and built boats all my life-the last 25 or so I've learned a lot about foiling and what a cool thing it is to fly under sail. The UFO has a good chance of being the Peoples Foiler and will bring the opportunity to foil to a much larger population than ever before. I wish them good luck with their exceptional little boat-the coolest foiler yet!

 

 

2lctrit.jpg

....owww Cwapp,, th'kiss of death!!😫😫

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Not being negative or attacking anyone but the video of the UFO looks like very hard work for a very skilled and experienced sailor compared to say the waszp that looks as if it can sail itself. I personally think the catamaran concept with the central foils has some control issues.

 

If you are going to put video out make sure you put good video out.

 

http://www.waszp.com/gallery/waszp-from-above

 

I am in no way connected to waszp

 

I see no reason why with a bit of value engineering both boats can't cost about the same. The waszp also looks cool.

 

If you can't say smoothing against the grain on this forum then just shut it down

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The UFO isn't ugly. You guys ever seen a thunderbird....flying Scott? Jesus Christ.

 

Let's not go and cite half-century old designs for examples

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I see no reason why with a bit of value engineering both boats can't cost about the same. The waszp also looks cool.

 

If you can't say smoothing against the grain on this forum then just shut it down

 

 

 

Isn't the Waszp roughly twice the cost of the UFO? You must be one hell of a 'value engineer' if you think you can fix that problem easily.

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I see no reason why with a bit of value engineering both boats can't cost about the same. The waszp also looks cool.

 

If you can't say smoothing against the grain on this forum then just shut it down

 

 

 

Isn't the Waszp roughly twice the cost of the UFO? You must be one hell of a 'value engineer' if you think you can fix that problem easily.

 

 

Just one opinion but...

 

Think the UFO is about $7.5K, while the Wasp is about $11.5K, by the time you are done. Another ~$4K so not so sure its double, but the Wasp is at least ~50% more expensive.

 

On the downside the Wasp appears to be not as user friendly to learn foiling on - or launch - as the UFO is. On the plus side the Wasp a bit more sleek in terms of marketing (they had a head start to be fair) and imaging - neither of which is maybe a major concern for most UFO purchasers - but perhaps a meaningful advantage of the Wasp is the ready made racing class in that it measures as a legal Moth, while Wasp equally and additionally try to set-up a OD class (which has advantages over Moth and the costs to keep up). I presume UFO will (try to set up an OD class of UFOs) as well but suspect the Wasp has an advantage here. We have also seen the Wasp tack and gybe its way upwind and down.

 

I really like the UFO as opening access to higher performance boats and foiling to a much wider group than the Wasp will appeal to. Everything suggests its (the UFO) a much better and more affordable platform to learn to foil on than the Wasp would be. The problem is once having acquired the skill... where do you go from there with the UFO? The Wasp offers the next step in for sure ready made racing since it measures as a Moth.

 

Cool boats both IMHO. Aimed at different targets I am guessing. I am curious to see which will get to critical mass and hope they both do.

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Not being negative or attacking anyone but the video of the UFO looks like very hard work for a very skilled and experienced sailor compared to say the waszp that looks as if it can sail itself. I personally think the catamaran concept with the central foils has some control issues.

 

If you are going to put video out make sure you put good video out.

 

http://www.waszp.com/gallery/waszp-from-above

 

I am in no way connected to waszp

 

I see no reason why with a bit of value engineering both boats can't cost about the same. The waszp also looks cool.

 

If you can't say smoothing against the grain on this forum then just shut it down

 

First, if we all saw things the same way...be bored to squat.

 

Second, for a person who say authored this site to moan about how some view this or that is somewhat illogical and contraintuitive, at best. Like or do not like; keep it to yourself, and if you don't, maybe give those who disagree some leeway...to be nautical and not!

 

Like I said, Mr. Clark is having fun...that is the point!

 

Even at that...we make everything one design, we have you to run it...

 

To each his or her own. Scott or Moth. (Wonder if Flying Scot org spent money here, we would read same comment?)

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Am cure the Clarks might relish suggestions, though I do know Clark does very well on his own...beats these digressions. If I knew something that might help make that wee boat sail better...but I know squat.

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Not being negative or attacking anyone but the video of the UFO looks like very hard work for a very skilled and experienced sailor compared to say the waszp that looks as if it can sail itself. I personally think the catamaran concept with the central foils has some control issues.

 

If you are going to put video out make sure you put good video out.

 

http://www.waszp.com/gallery/waszp-from-above

 

I am in no way connected to waszp

 

I see no reason why with a bit of value engineering both boats can't cost about the same. The waszp also looks cool.

 

If you can't say smoothing against the grain on this forum then just shut it down

Just because some of us have different views, how does that mean we're "negative or attacking anyone?" Shoe on the other foot?

 

As far as I can tell, this is father and son developing a new low cost user friendly foiler on a limited budget - not a big commercial enterprise with a marketing budget (for better videos) or a group of 'value engineers.' And they've clearly laid out there design brief, if others have something different in mind, let others build it.

 

Let's applaud them for 'entering the arena' and give them the benefit of the doubt as they work toward production.

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MidPack...+1...

 

Yes, we always get the governance we deserve.

 

And never argue with a fool, some foolishness sticks and the fool likes it...you can sub "pig for "fool...which is original I think.

 

Cubs need to break out bats!

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Not being negative or attacking anyone but the video of the UFO looks like very hard work for a very skilled and experienced sailor compared to say the waszp that looks as if it can sail itself. I personally think the catamaran concept with the central foils has some control issues.

 

If you are going to put video out make sure you put good video out.

 

http://www.waszp.com/gallery/waszp-from-above

 

Okay now that's an straightforward qualitative comparison. I can apply knowledge to this in the service of truth. Let's get down to business!

 

What you're seeing in the two different videos is primarily two different sets of wind conditions. One is a steady 10-12 knot southerly in newport. One is a gusty westerly shore breeze of 5-15 in Niantic Bay. You have to sheet a lot going into and out of puffs. And then if you want to lock in on a good heel angle and go straight, you want to be playing the sheet a bit anyway. Not so profoundly necessary in steady breeze. I prefer to put the longest non-boring takes I can get on the internet, with intent to inform. We put up what we get. I left the boat getting bumped up by billy's wake around 4:55 because that's what upwash does to T-foils and it shows that the hull catches the boat square and keeps it moving. We'll put together more sales-y stuff about racing around buoys when we get the time and the right conditions.

 

The UFO and Waszp have functionally identical control systems. In the air, they're both moths. Moth sailors who have sailed the UFO have confirmed that we've hit this goal. However, when you lower the ride height on the UFO, the anhedral and volume in our float package actually arrests roll like training wheels on a bicycle and makes it more stable when learning to fly than on a Waszp. Most days I sail with the ride height on high because that's the level I should be training at now. At that elevation, the hull still arrests roll as seen in 6:15. While it doesn't bounce you back up as much as at lower heights (see More Foiling UFO Encounters 0:39), it enables a safe reset by keeping the speed on in a way that burying a wing wouldn't. Apply the best technologies for their best application. Centerline foils+cat hulls= bike with training wheels.

 

Now, the Waszp is a masterpiece of industrial design. AMAC and Harry nailed their target and I'm hugely impressed. I've spent a good amount of time with the Waszp now and honestly I'm excited for the sport as a whole. However, it's just dangerous for anybody to think that it is stable or sails itself. It's still a moth. I was there with the UFO for the whole of that week in newport sharing space with the Waszp. In the right hands, its cool to watch. AMAC (top 5), Harry (top 10) and a number of other skilled hands did a good job of showcasing that round the clock to keep hopefuls inspired. In the wrong hands, people flounder, swim, crash if they're lucky enough to fly and then swim some more. Both boats have foibles. Constant instability is one that the waszp has and Andrew has made it clear that he thinks its a good thing to have, as it gates access to hydrofoils to those who are willing to be on their toes constantly. He may be right. Further, the market response seems to be justifying his choice of price point at least at present volume. We set different goals and it's great that we both have achieved some version of them. In a number of ways, these products are not in competition but instead compliment one another.

 

Regarding the price difference. I'd love to have a plant in China. We've done what we can and expect to only get better with volume, but there's nothing quite like labor a $4.45 an hour.

 

Also our boat looks beautiful. The color black and sharp corners are rapidly going out of fashion again. Just look at the latest cars from mercedes benz. Harsh is out, smooth and friendly is in. All of this is 100% subjective, of course.

 

DRC

 

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Regarding "beauty", I don't care if the boat looked like a turnip - as long as it provides a relatively stable platform for learning to foil. I find it odd that anyone would say: "yep, it functionally does everything i want it to do, but it's just not pretty enough for me to buy."

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The UFO isn't ugly. You guys ever seen a thunderbird....flying Scott? Jesus Christ.

 

Let's not go and cite half-century old designs for examples

 

Why not? Ugly is ugly and pretty is pretty. SA puts up images of classic beauties every now and again. I guess by your logic, they no longer count as pretty because they're old. I'm not saying that the UFO is pretty, but it certainly isn't ugly. It's definitely different than what a lot of people are used to seeing, but there are plenty of clever details that make the boat pleasant to look at. Anyways, people griping about how the boat is bad for one reason or another as it relates to their own old age or lack of ability is really strange. If it's not your cup of tea, no worries! Nobody is forcing you to buy or sail a UFO. I do have to take issue though with the notion that it takes an excess of skill to sail this thing. I got in it a few weeks ago in marginal shifty conditions on the Charles river. I headed off the dock on port tack and I was foiling before I had to tack back onto Starboard as I approached the Boston shore. Before that 1/4 mile of port tack sailing, I had never foiled before.

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Not being negative or attacking anyone but the video of the UFO looks like very hard work for a very skilled and experienced sailor compared to say the waszp that looks as if it can sail itself. I personally think the catamaran concept with the central foils has some control issues.

 

If you are going to put video out make sure you put good video out.

 

http://www.waszp.com/gallery/waszp-from-above

 

Okay now that's an straightforward qualitative comparison. I can apply knowledge to this in the service of truth. Let's get down to business!

 

What you're seeing in the two different videos is primarily two different sets of wind conditions. One is a steady 10-12 knot southerly in newport. One is a gusty westerly shore breeze of 5-15 in Niantic Bay. You have to sheet a lot going into and out of puffs. And then if you want to lock in on a good heel angle and go straight, you want to be playing the sheet a bit anyway. Not so profoundly necessary in steady breeze. I prefer to put the longest non-boring takes I can get on the internet, with intent to inform. We put up what we get. I left the boat getting bumped up by billy's wake around 4:55 because that's what upwash does to T-foils and it shows that the hull catches the boat square and keeps it moving. We'll put together more sales-y stuff about racing around buoys when we get the time and the right conditions.

 

The UFO and Waszp have functionally identical control systems. In the air, they're both moths. Moth sailors who have sailed the UFO have confirmed that we've hit this goal. However, when you lower the ride height on the UFO, the anhedral and volume in our float package actually arrests roll like training wheels on a bicycle and makes it more stable when learning to fly than on a Waszp. Most days I sail with the ride height on high because that's the level I should be training at now. At that elevation, the hull still arrests roll as seen in 6:15. While it doesn't bounce you back up as much as at lower heights (see More Foiling UFO Encounters 0:39), it enables a safe reset by keeping the speed on in a way that burying a wing wouldn't. Apply the best technologies for their best application. Centerline foils+cat hulls= bike with training wheels.

 

Now, the Waszp is a masterpiece of industrial design. AMAC and Harry nailed their target and I'm hugely impressed. I've spent a good amount of time with the Waszp now and honestly I'm excited for the sport as a whole. However, it's just dangerous for anybody to think that it is stable or sails itself. It's still a moth. I was there with the UFO for the whole of that week in newport sharing space with the Waszp. In the right hands, its cool to watch. AMAC (top 5), Harry (top 10) and a number of other skilled hands did a good job of showcasing that round the clock to keep hopefuls inspired. In the wrong hands, people flounder, swim, crash if they're lucky enough to fly and then swim some more. Both boats have foibles. Constant instability is one that the waszp has and Andrew has made it clear that he thinks its a good thing to have, as it gates access to hydrofoils to those who are willing to be on their toes constantly. He may be right. Further, the market response seems to be justifying his choice of price point at least at present volume. We set different goals and it's great that we both have achieved some version of them. In a number of ways, these products are not in competition but instead compliment one another.

 

Regarding the price difference. I'd love to have a plant in China. We've done what we can and expect to only get better with volume, but there's nothing quite like labor a $4.45 an hour.

 

Also our boat looks beautiful. The color black and sharp corners are rapidly going out of fashion again. Just look at the latest cars from mercedes benz. Harsh is out, smooth and friendly is in. All of this is 100% subjective, of course.

 

DRC

Great positive reply thanks out trick or treating with my daughter. Hopefully the UFO will be an equally successful export from US. Will fully digest and reply if I have any questions later

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The UFO's looks are different from most boats people will have seen before. A hard-decked catamaran, but it's so small compared to most boats that it's going to look different, I think it might just take a bit to adjust to how it looks. I can see a photo of a traditional monohull and imagine it in almost 3D space, but I find it hard to "picture" the UFO the same way without having seen it.

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DRC, I have given you the courtesy of watching your videos again and to use your phase let's get down to business.

 

If success was merely a result of pure enthusiasm and hard work you richly disserve success.

 

I have taken on board what you say about the sailing videos and accept fully your explanation. In this digital age what we put out into the world we lose control of. Don't want to sound all high and mighty but consider what your media is actually communicating, I am sure it is hard when you are so excited about what you have created. I look forward to seeing some high quality video that really sells the UFO.

 

Still, and I may be at odds, have an issue with the aesthetics. IMHO the deck hull joint is a big turn off and a throw back to the 60/70s. Looking at some stills however it is clear structurally how critical that joint is and it is probably the best compromise considering cost, quality and robustness. I am an engineer and can't propose a more appealing aesthetic solution. I have however seen time and again how industrial designers can transform an engineer's ugly duckling into a swan. It however sounds as if you are to far down your tooling root to consider any major changes. Colour selection can also completely alter a design, I look forward to seeing a black UFO.

 

Your comments about the Waszp and the difference with the UFO after re watching the foiling week presentation makes good sense. I think you have met your creeping mission statement well.

 

 

I know some in this forum have been upset with what I have been saying but I am just curious from a design and engineering point of view. I thought I was being more constructive than 'Can it do port tack ? That would be awesome', 'can it tack and gybe'.

 

Anyway as always I was wish you all the best

 

good luck

 

Tink

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Not being negative or attacking anyone but the video of the UFO looks like very hard work for a very skilled and experienced sailor compared to say the waszp that looks as if it can sail itself. I personally think the catamaran concept with the central foils has some control issues.

 

You haven't sailed a foiler, have you. Anybody who has will tell you that the UFO will be by far the easier boat to sail, and Dave has confirmed it above. The boat is clearly designed to make learning foiling easier and "safer" by being less likely to capsize. If you can foil a Waszp or Moth, the UFO will be no trouble but if you can foil a UFO, a Waszp or Moth will still be a step up.

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Maybe TInk and I can wait until Phillipe Starck designs a foiler and get the look right... :rolleyes:

 

I was trained as an Industrial Designer and make my living these days designing sailboats (and the occasional powerboat) but don't find anything about the UFO that offends my design esthetic.

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Not being negative or attacking anyone but the video of the UFO looks like very hard work for a very skilled and experienced sailor compared to say the waszp that looks as if it can sail itself. I personally think the catamaran concept with the central foils has some control issues.

 

You haven't sailed a foiler, have you. Anybody who has will tell you that the UFO will be by far the easier boat to sail, and Dave has confirmed it above. The boat is clearly designed to make learning foiling easier and "safer" by being less likely to capsize. If you can foil a Waszp or Moth, the UFO will be no trouble but if you can foil a UFO, a Waszp or Moth will still be a step up.

Rather than scan reading a few old posts read them all of you are going the comment, you clearly haven't read post 375 before you posted 376. The concept clearly should be easier to sail than a moth or Waszp but the video evidence is to the contrary and Dave has explained why. I am not attacking anybody or anything just curious.

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Why do the negative anarchists work so hard to ruin these good threads? I guess because it's Anarchy.

 

This boat will succeed, it's created by some very clever people who have the skills, knowledge and backing to make it happen, and it's designed specifically for the world's biggest market, in particular, compared to the other foilers its well suited to unfit, overweight Americans, who want to tie their boat up to a dock, which seems to be very important, but something I do not understand because I do not live there. I am not sure that it will sell outside the US but then it does not need to to be successful.

 

They will build it right, they know how to. I am a bit suspect of the target price, especially when it's little more than the cost of a set of moth foils, and because the UFO carbon foils do not seem that much different to moth foils, and may in fact use even more carbon. Target price and selling price variance is nothing new in manufacturing. We will see.

 

It looks to sail about as well as a WASZP, which is impressive compared to anything other than a moth. Neither seem to be up to the speed of any decent moth from the last 10 years. But its not about speed, it's about enjoying a new sailing sensation, smooth, quiet and faster than what sailing used to be, and doing it more easily and cheaply than moth sailing. The UFO will be easier, The WASZP may well be better in more challenging conditions. Having a hull touch water at more than 15kts tends to put the brakes on, and the windward UFO hull is always going to touch waves first. But the UFO is supposedly less likely to nose over, I am not sure why with its very short bows.

 

Guys these foiling boats will not convert the thousands who enjoy sailing slow boats, but if they attract a few new people to our sport then the whole sport will benefit. They need our support. If they end up being racing classes all good, stranger things have happened in the past, to a weird little beach cat called a Hobie, and a tough little picnic boat called a Laser. Wish them luck.

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If the look does concern you, I think it can be softened by using the flange as a pin stripe (nice navy blue on the white hull?) or by having two-tone hulls - say gun metal grey below and orange above.

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Three hundred eighty-one...dings. Not too shabby! But winter comes, things to do...

 

BTW...how do I put up picture stored on computer now?

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SNIP...

I have however seen time and again how industrial designers can transform an engineer's ugly duckling into a swan.

this reminds me of the ridiculous letter we got once, on a ferry design project, where the drawings had to go to public comment. Some high and mighty self-important "industrial designer" said we had it all wrong but that he would be very happy to steer us in the right direction. Thanks, but no thanks.

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You guys make me laugh, you are such hard core anarchists you don't bother reading the posts properly before you react.

 

Tink

 

Yet again I will wish Dave and his team the very best

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"....suited to unfit, overweight Americans"

I resemble that remark.

SHC

Dig! Funny...me too!

You guys make me laugh, you are such hard core anarchists you don't bother reading the posts properly before you react.

 

Tink

 

Yet again I will wish Dave and his team the very best

Tink, Happens all the time on A...have to sort of work around it.

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"....suited to unfit, overweight Americans"

I resemble that remark.

SHC

 

And I, as well. Sure would like to see some video of you sailing the boat. For research purposes only.

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This whole thing has been fun to watch.

 

I am not sure what Tink's deal is, but I smell a troll. But, hey, this is Anarchy, and such is life, so keep hating if it makes you happy!

 

Re: the weather helm issue and Dave's thought about keeping a little load on the rudder--I agree completely that it's easier to keep control of a boat with a little weather helm when it's at speed. My Canoe rudder is the same as his--in its intial configuration it was pretty balanced and the boat was just way too hard to sail. I had to put a little load on it to make it work right. FYSA, the Blue Angels fly with a spring on the stick for the same reason--precice control is easier when it has a little bit of load. I remember explaining this to an instructor in flight school when he was critsizing the way I'd trimmed the plane in the pattern. I wanted just a touch of feel for more precise corrections. Lost the argument, but got past the school phase and still do the same thing in the plane...

 

I'm really interested in where this goes. I consider myself a decent sailor (or perhaps just less humble than Dave?...he beat me at worlds...) and my one crack at a moth was awesome but did remind me that it's pretty hard to start sailing one. Guys with only Laser backgrounds are going to have to be fit, skilled, and endure lots of crashing to make that boat--or its slightly chubby brother, the Wazsp--go. I expect the UFO is going to make that transition much less painful and therefore much more available.

 

I'm also wildly curious to line it up on a Portsmouth line and just let it run. Out in Richmond (CA) we had the most fun racing those big pursuit races... the Moths would do well with consistent breeze if they were upright. The I-14s were generally winners if they could fly three sails most of the time. The Canoes won the races with lots of beats and reaches, and honestly the Thistles were competitive in the drifters. I'm frankly shocked Dave et al has survived so long on SA without answering the fundamental question--"What's it rate????"

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I'm pretty interested in getting one and have been communicating with Dave. I think it's more likely than not that I pull the trigger - just waiting to see another video and maybe go for a demo sail later this fall if time allows and then I'm in. Checks a lot of boxes.

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Laughing at the Tink haters again tonight.

 

Having reread my first post again I think, in hind sight, my wording could have be very different and a apologise to Dave and his team unreservedly for the tone of the first post.

 

I have been members of a number of boat design forums over a number of years, have posted ideas and people comment. The comments can be positive and negative and I have found this very useful. Clearly, despite the acidity of the Anarchy website, this is not that type of forum. I know that Dave did not start this post and probably feels a bit hijacked. With the design so complete I am sure he does not want and discussion about the design.

 

I am not a Troll, just a guy very passionate about innovate small boat design and curious about the design. I have many questions I would like to ask but appreciate Dave is very busy and so I will not waste his time.

 

I do have some issues with the design but these are minor compared with my admiration of what he has achieved.

 

Anyway yet again I wish Dave and his team all the best.

 

Tink

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Well I guess for some reason nobody really saw to it to give Tink the correct greeting. So Fuck Off Newbie :-D

Laughing, but no I won't

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The whole hydrofoil thing has been a strange trip. In the 60s it looked like it could happen. Dave Keiper sailed all over the Pacific. And then nothing happened--until the Hobie trifoiler. Again, great excitement, followed by disappointment. Parallel to this, there was the hydrofoil on the original windsurfer, which for some reason never caught on. Finally, the moth happened. That started something. Not sure why other than that it was a racing hothouse and there is nothing like racing, to make something actually have to work.

So fast forward to today. Dave's idea and his boat are the only actual practical boat with hydrofoils. All the others are either yachts, or are impractical. This is a big deal.

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The whole hydrofoil thing has been a strange trip. In the 60s it looked like it could happen. Dave Keiper sailed all over the Pacific. And then nothing happened--until the Hobie trifoiler. Again, great excitement, followed by disappointment. Parallel to this, there was the hydrofoil on the original windsurfer, which for some reason never caught on. Finally, the moth happened. That started something. Not sure why other than that it was a racing hothouse and there is nothing like racing, to make something actually have to work.

So fast forward to today. Dave's idea and his boat are the only actual practical boat with hydrofoils. All the others are either yachts, or are impractical. This is a big deal.

Please don't forget the efforts of us Brits

Philip Hansfords Mayfly, 23 knotts in 1977

James Grogono Icarus 28.1 knotts in 1985

 

Both over 500 meters, not an instant GPS reading

 

Philips second Mayfly used the Hook surface sensor which was then used by the Moth, the AYRS instrumental in developing thesurface sensor for sailboats at this time in the UK but others elsewhere may have been doing the same.

 

But you are correct Dave's idea is the closest to practical foiler for all and yes that is a big deal.

 

Tink

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to give Tink the correct greeting

 

As an explanation, a few years ago a bunch of newbies decided that saying this to other newbies was somehow amusing, and now consider it an SA tradition.

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And something to do with mammaries as I recall...

 

 

to give Tink the correct greeting

 

As an explanation, a few years ago a bunch of newbies decided that saying this to other newbies was somehow amusing, and now consider it an SA tradition.

 

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I rather deliberately left the British boats out, as much as I love them--you MUSt watch everything the good doctor said about his efforts--they are on youtube now!

 

Icarus and Mayfly, as well as a whole bunch of other boats, never got to a point where they proved truly practical. Keiper did--sailing across the Pacific. The Hobie was practical enough to actually become a product. The AYRS hydrofoil book is a gold mine of dead ends, false starts, and certainly plenty of grist for the mill of future good ideas though.

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The whole hydrofoil thing has been a strange trip. In the 60s it looked like it could happen. Dave Keiper sailed all over the Pacific. And then nothing happened--until the Hobie trifoiler. Again, great excitement, followed by disappointment. Parallel to this, there was the hydrofoil on the original windsurfer, which for some reason never caught on. Finally, the moth happened. That started something. Not sure why other than that it was a racing hothouse and there is nothing like racing, to make something actually have to work.

So fast forward to today. Dave's idea and his boat are the only actual practical boat with hydrofoils. All the others are either yachts, or are impractical. This is a big deal.

Please don't forget the efforts of us Brits

Philip Hansfords Mayfly, 23 knotts in 1977

James Grogono Icarus 28.1 knotts in 1985

 

Both over 500 meters, not an instant GPS reading

 

Philips second Mayfly used the Hook surface sensor which was then used by the Moth, the AYRS instrumental in developing thesurface sensor for sailboats at this time in the UK but others elsewhere may have been doing the same.

 

But you are correct Dave's idea is the closest to practical foiler for all and yes that is a big deal.

 

Tink

 

 

I believe John Ilett copied(and improved) the system Dr. Sam Bradfield had used on the original Rave. I talked to John about it before the first Ilett Moth flew with a wand system.

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Dave -

 

If you can, ignore the hanger-ons and the haters, and if possible share how many boats will come out of the first run, when they will be available, and what regions of the country they are going to? Help us understand where fleets may form first...

 

Wess

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Dave -

 

If you can, ignore the hanger-ons and the haters, and if possible share how many boats will come out of the first run, when they will be available, and what regions of the country they are going to? Help us understand where fleets may form first...

 

Wess

Texas! The amount of buy-in and enthusiasm coming out of the lone-star state is causing me to seriously consider issuing Texas sail numbers. Other nuclei are RI, Connecticut, Florida, california and maybe Annapolis. Non-US countries with buys or serious intent to buy are, Canada, New Zealand, Australia and Switzerland. There's been a good amount of inquiry from England as well, but no trigger pulling (who would after what just happened to the pound?).

 

Batches contain 9 boats apiece because that's the number of boats you safely get from a barrel of vinylester resin. We're running the batches end to end with no plan on stopping unless demand lets up. We're building at least 20 this winter. The aim is to sell 100 in the first year, expanding exponentially from there. Get on board, people! This ain't vaporware. This is real life.

 

DRC

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