Doug Lord

Steve and Dave Clarks Unidentified Foiling Object

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USD 7600 is some serious pricing for what you get!

cool stuff.

what other boats do you get for that money? Laser pico? BIC? Optimist?

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You can get a new Laser for under $7k or a new Vanguard C420 for under $8.5k. Neither foil, neither are cool, neither have hulls designed to last. In the foiling world, you may be able to score a used Bladerider Moth for around this price, maybe-they are rare and tough to find! The other option is an A-cat, several available used that would make good boats for conversion, but still end up between $8k-$12k on the low end for a converted boat, if you can do the work yourself, and the A-cat doesn't fly on all points of sail like the UFO. Final option is a Wazsp, I believe $11.5k new.

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You can get a new Laser for under $7k or a new Vanguard C420 for under $8.5k. Neither foil, neither are cool, neither have hulls designed to last. In the foiling world, you may be able to score a used Bladerider Moth for around this price, maybe-they are rare and tough to find! The other option is an A-cat, several available used that would make good boats for conversion, but still end up between $8k-$12k on the low end for a converted boat, if you can do the work yourself, and the A-cat doesn't fly on all points of sail like the UFO. Final option is a Wazsp, I believe $11.5k new.

That 'used Bladerider/convert an old A-class' conundrum was one of our many motives for making the UFO. Secondhand markets on complex and fragile boats give a false sense of affordability which can threaten earnest enthusiasm from new fleet members. Knowing nothing, I could likely pick up an uncompetitive moth secondhand for abound 8k, but if one thing is worn out, broken, uniquely modified or in some other way depreciated I'd end up learning on faulty equipment. And that's the scenario when the thing works out of the box. If it's dysfunctional, you're stuck doing upkeep on something you probably don't yet understand. That, and the low availability of the secondhand equipment are the core components of my longstanding belief that, when discussing prices, secondhand markets don't count. I would, however, say that in the case of huge one design classes like the laser, hobie 16, or opti, secondhand markets absolutely do, thanks to the global abundance of identically depreciated identical equipment. It's our dream for this to apply to the UFO, where old but still fully competitive and functional UFOs can be got for about 4k. It's a long treck forward to building that future.

 

DRC

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A bit if thread drift, but there is still a good supply of Bladerider parts on–line thanks to Amac. Where there aren't original parts (e.g. dial, adjustable wand) there are good resources to fit Mach2 bits or make your own.

 

I don't see the UFO as a competitor for a good used Bladerider. In Aus, a good X8 is $6~8k, a UFO with the exchange rate (1.37), GST (10%) and shipping (say $1k) will be close to $12k (AUD).

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There will always be vagaries when it comes to international dealings. Exchange rates, taxes, duties -- all that varies by country. Perhaps the UFO isn't an answer presently in Oz where Rob indicates used Moths are fairly plentiful, but my understanding is the Clarks have enjoyed good response in the US to the UFO. I believe this is due at least in large part to the points Samc made in no. 525.

 

Time will tell, of course, if the UFO reaches the point where used boats in good condition are trading for around for 52% of new cost. That's a ways off, though....

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There is a good article about the Clarks and the UFO in this month's Sailing World. I know the print media gets a lot of disdain here, especially that magazine, but its very well written and really a "Seahorse" quality story. Nice to see; great color on the background of the UFO and Dave and Steve.

 

Happy New Year to all and looking forward to 2017 being the year of the UFO!

 

Cheers,

 

Treef

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...a false sense of affordability which can threaten earnest enthusiasm from new fleet members. Knowing nothing, I could likely pick up an uncompetitive moth secondhand for abound 8k, but if one thing is worn out, broken, uniquely modified or in some other way depreciated I'd end up learning on faulty equipment. And that's the scenario when the thing works out of the box...

 

This, above all, I think is where the Class association comes in. For any difficult or idiosyncratic boat there needs to be a support network of enthusiastic people who can somehow provide just enough assistance and top up enough enthusiasm for a reasonable percentage of newcomers into the fleet to be able to make progress. To me the biggest challenge is always the boats that were bought by someone who wasn't plugged into the support network for some reason, and the boat got modified or detuned into something somewhat dysfunctional. Somehow you need to get the next owner into the network and the boat thoroughly functional again.This is probably rather easier in a relatively small country like the UK.

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There is a good article about the Clarks and the UFO in this month's Sailing World. I know the print media gets a lot of disdain here, especially that magazine, but its very well written and really a "Seahorse" quality story. Nice to see; great color on the background of the UFO and Dave and Steve.

 

Happy New Year to all and looking forward to 2017 being the year of the UFO!

 

Cheers,

 

Treef

 

 

Kudos to the author and photographer for the SW article about the Clarks and the UFO - Joe Berkeley. A master craftsman.

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There is a good article about the Clarks and the UFO in this month's Sailing World. I know the print media gets a lot of disdain here, especially that magazine, but its very well written and really a "Seahorse" quality story. Nice to see; great color on the background of the UFO and Dave and Steve.

 

Happy New Year to all and looking forward to 2017 being the year of the UFO!

 

Cheers,

 

Treef

 

 

Awesome to see a tiny bit of the same information that's been here for about 4 months finally make it to a print magazine headquartered minutes away from the Clark's garage. Truly impressive stuff. :wacko:

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There is a good article about the Clarks and the UFO in this month's Sailing World. I know the print media gets a lot of disdain here, especially that magazine, but its very well written and really a "Seahorse" quality story. Nice to see; great color on the background of the UFO and Dave and Steve.

 

Happy New Year to all and looking forward to 2017 being the year of the UFO!

 

Cheers,

 

Treef

 

 

Awesome to see a tiny bit of the same information that's been here for about 4 months finally make it to a print magazine headquartered minutes away from the Clark's garage. Truly impressive stuff. :wacko:

 

How about playing nice in the New Year?

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There is a good article about the Clarks and the UFO in this month's Sailing World. I know the print media gets a lot of disdain here, especially that magazine, but its very well written and really a "Seahorse" quality story. Nice to see; great color on the background of the UFO and Dave and Steve.

 

Happy New Year to all and looking forward to 2017 being the year of the UFO!

 

Cheers,

 

Treef

 

Awesome to see a tiny bit of the same information that's been here for about 4 months finally make it to a print magazine headquartered minutes away from the Clark's garage. Truly impressive stuff. :wacko:

Almost as impressive as posting on the front page 6 months after the kids went to Bermuda?

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Well, we are number 31. Check in the mail. Hope it doesn't suck and that we can figure out how to sail it. Need more Texans and Okies to order them now so we have people to race. I'll bring it back for free for ya if I go up there to get mine.

 

Johnson 18 for sale. Brand new Quantum sails. One way delivery to Rhode Island available in Mayish. $5k. Ha.

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There is a good article about the Clarks and the UFO in this month's Sailing World. I know the print media gets a lot of disdain here, especially that magazine, but its very well written and really a "Seahorse" quality story. Nice to see; great color on the background of the UFO and Dave and Steve.

 

Happy New Year to all and looking forward to 2017 being the year of the UFO!

 

Cheers,

 

Treef

 

 

Awesome to see a tiny bit of the same information that's been here for about 4 months finally make it to a print magazine headquartered minutes away from the Clark's garage. Truly impressive stuff. :wacko:

 

How about playing nice in the New Year?

 

 

 

I'm always nice!

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There is a good article about the Clarks and the UFO in this month's Sailing World. I know the print media gets a lot of disdain here, especially that magazine, but its very well written and really a "Seahorse" quality story. Nice to see; great color on the background of the UFO and Dave and Steve.

 

Happy New Year to all and looking forward to 2017 being the year of the UFO!

 

Cheers,

 

Treef

 

Awesome to see a tiny bit of the same information that's been here for about 4 months finally make it to a print magazine headquartered minutes away from the Clark's garage. Truly impressive stuff. :wacko:

Almost as impressive as posting on the front page 6 months after the kids went to Bermuda?

 

 

 

no idea what you are talking about

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I can promise you without equivocation that you're going to dig that boat. You're right that we need to get more people in Texas and Oklahoma on board. I have a couple of people at Rush Creek who are fence sitters who I need to get off the fence. This is going to be a blast!

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Well, we are number 31. Check in the mail. Hope it doesn't suck and that we can figure out how to sail it. Need more Texans and Okies to order them now so we have people to race. I'll bring it back for free for ya if I go up there to get mine.

 

Johnson 18 for sale. Brand new Quantum sails. One way delivery to Rhode Island available in Mayish. $5k. Ha.

How did you find out your spot in line / hull number?

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Talked to Dave Clark on the phone for delivery guess and spot in line. Brig having sailed one was a big help for me getting off fence. If any of the rush fence sitters are people I know let me know and I'll do my best peer pressuring.

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Well, we are number 31. Check in the mail. Hope it doesn't suck and that we can figure out how to sail it. Need more Texans and Okies to order them now so we have people to race. I'll bring it back for free for ya if I go up there to get mine.

 

Johnson 18 for sale. Brand new Quantum sails. One way delivery to Rhode Island available in Mayish. $5k. Ha.

How did you find out your spot in line / hull number?

I really owe my phone number to all existing customers. Consider it immutable official policy from now on.

 

DRC

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Wow 31 already. Way cool.

 

Now that the holiday's are past I gotta push my fam to figure out what we are up to. Debate between big boat, waterfront house, or sit pat (w current house and boat) at which point I really want to go try the UFO and likely get me one. Wish there were more in Naps area but hey somebody got to be the first.

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Well, we are number 31. Check in the mail. Hope it doesn't suck and that we can figure out how to sail it. Need more Texans and Okies to order them now so we have people to race. I'll bring it back for free for ya if I go up there to get mine.

 

Johnson 18 for sale. Brand new Quantum sails. One way delivery to Rhode Island available in Mayish. $5k. Ha.

How did you find out your spot in line / hull number?

I really owe my phone number to all existing customers. Consider it immutable official policy from now on.

 

DRC

 

No worries Dave. Will keep my spot in line as long as I get sail # 38 if you're willing to skip around a tiny bit. Really looking forward to taking delivery and making the drive to Rhode Island. Hopefully we'll be able to get some traction around WLIS but even if it doesn't, I'm still looking forward to sailing the boat a bunch. Was thinking the other day how crazy it will be to show up to the first regatta having no idea whether I'm any good in one of these, and everyone else wondering the same thing. That'll be a fun day.

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wpbeardsley - are you going to pick up at RI for fun (i.e. you feel like taking a trip to RI)? I seem to recall earlier in this thread that the UFO could be shipped directly from manufacturer to customer. Obviously, there would be some sort of shipping fee, but certainly less than the cost of driving to RI and back. Since I'm definitely going to order one of these babies next year, I just wanted to confirm that the shipping option is available if desired.

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wpbeardsley - are you going to pick up at RI for fun (i.e. you feel like taking a trip to RI)? I seem to recall earlier in this thread that the UFO could be shipped directly from manufacturer to customer. Obviously, there would be some sort of shipping fee, but certainly less than the cost of driving to RI and back. Since I'm definitely going to order one of these babies next year, I just wanted to confirm that the shipping option is available if desired.

Behold the awesome power of LTL shipping via Seko Logistics. Shipping a boxed up UFO to canyon lake TX (charlie) is quoted as costing exactly $471. Now there's some cardboard and foam missing from that price, but it's only cardboard and foam. This is one of the advantages of building boats in the country they're most likely to be used in.

 

DRC

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I shipped a peapod from Nova Scotia to Connecticut -- in a Fish Truck! But even that cost over $100 so that is a good deal to Texas :-)

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DRC, you better keep in touch if and when you come to Texas, really want to meet ya in person, one of the reasons i sail is you and yer dad.

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wpbeardsley - are you going to pick up at RI for fun (i.e. you feel like taking a trip to RI)? I seem to recall earlier in this thread that the UFO could be shipped directly from manufacturer to customer. Obviously, there would be some sort of shipping fee, but certainly less than the cost of driving to RI and back. Since I'm definitely going to order one of these babies next year, I just wanted to confirm that the shipping option is available if desired.

Behold the awesome power of LTL shipping via Seko Logistics. Shipping a boxed up UFO to canyon lake TX (charlie) is quoted as costing exactly $471. Now there's some cardboard and foam missing from that price, but it's only cardboard and foam. This is one of the advantages of building boats in the country they're most likely to be used in.

 

DRC

 

 

Dion, Western Long Island Sound looks like it's only a couple hours from Zim Sailing where the UFOs are. Probably be like driving to Corpus, except for all the Yankees.

 

And oh, boyoboyoboy, Charlie. Having a shipped price must mean the time is nigh!

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For you Texans out there, for sailors, WLIS and Rhode Island are a regular weekend drive apart for 120 years. Remember, the NYYC moved Cup operations out there a long time ago:-)

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RT: yes, that's what I think I read, too, :) but late February is probably more realistic. Are you ready to try it out with me? I have a chase boat, but you have to supply your own wet suit and booties.

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Cool beans. Gotta see if I've outgrown my Zhik Titanium. I know my boots fit.

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What? For $471 put mine in a box too.

 

And ya, maybe it was weird to call but before I sent someone 2 grand I wanted a phone conversation.

 

Shoot if Charlie's will be here before April I will just be really nice to him and offer gifts and try to sail his so I don't have to go to RI in cold water to make sure the boat isn't totally wrong for us.

 

Dave and Charlie any interest in setting up a Texas something day? We need to make a better promo video and sell these things to Texans. I market and sell stuff for a living, so my services are available for no charge in exchange for getting people to race. Ha.

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I'm in! let me know when and where!

And still want a go on S-9 CPM.

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Dave,

Nice video! I posted one sideways, re-posted and it came up ok. Don't know why.

Hope you put a safety tie on the camera!

Next post: flying tack?

(No pressure of course!)

I am envious - too much wind today here, but warm - gusts to 34.

Charlie

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Anyone know if there's somewhere to read the sailing world article?

Yeah--in Sailing World...

 

They wait for a month, to give their subscribers their money's worth, and then put all the content online. So the key ingredient here is days

 

DRC

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You might try a library-mine carries Sailing World and gets it at about the same time people with subs do.

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Worth a look at Fulcrum Speedworks' FB page. New video taken from upper section of mast, looking down on the boat as it reaches in a fair amount of chop. Speedo hits 25 mph. Skipper splash slows boat to 12 or so, and once clear of water, back up through the gears. Impressive.

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What's a library? I guess I could go see. Our Barnes and Noble doesn't carry it. I would subscribe but would still miss it. Anyone know if I sign up I can access a previous version? Happy to pay for it, just not sure how to do that.

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^ West Marine used to have SW on the magazine rack if you have one close to you and don't want to wait 3 weeks or whatever until it is online.

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TN, Claire1000: I suspect learning to foil a dinghy will be similar to learning windsurfing, skiing, or cat foiling: haul ass, crash, repeat.

Looks like it will be much easier learning on the UFO than on a little monohull, but I guess we'll soon find out.

I'll post video if it's not too embarrassing.

Charlie

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Charlie, you're exactly right. After my one run, which exhausted me due one part to my bulkiness and the other being dragged through the water when I tipped to weather, I thought "If I was fresh, I could do SO much better!" It's a process, and the fact is this boat is much, much easier on the body during the learning process than windsurfing. I taught myself to windsurf on the Brazos at good old BU after reading an article in Paris Match magazine, and as a 20 year old in 1977, it whipped me for weeks. The stability the UFO provides in learning mode is not to be underestimated, and the learning curve is going to be nowhere near what it was for windsurfing from a getting your ass kicked physically perspective. I am not saying this is a jump on the boat and go proposition -- it certainly wasn't for me (and the video proves what a clown I was during my test) -- but it's eminently do-able.

 

Even more importantly than any of the foregoing, it's freaking FUN! How fun is it? I just ordered another one, so at some point I will have two of them.

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Yea, instead of USA or GBR they should be TEX! After all we're our own country as gouv showed!

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Yea, instead of USA or GBR they should be TEX! After all we're our own country as gouv showed!

Actually a former independant republic which joined the Union voluntarily. The same is true of California. Seems to me that the most efficient numbering system is the Laser one, where the country code is added at the bottom and isn't independant to each country. In that system, swapping out USA with TEX or CAL would be no trouble. Just something I'm pondering.

 

DRC

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The new sail looks well thought out. Will there be color options for the sail? The sail needs a UFO logo desperately. How would other sailors know what just blew them out of the water (once my humble sailing skills will permit).

Will there be color options for the hull/deck/deck-padding? I saw the viperous green padding in the frostbiting video on your facebook page. Awesome sailing, Dave!

I have never been frostbiting. Yet, if you shipped my UFO today, a snowstorm could not hold me back from getting on the water.

Is there a reason for having three mast sections instead of just two?

 

PS: I secured my slot just before Christmas. :D This UFO will land in Berlin, Germany. Anyone else in Germany hesitating: Maybe we could save on shipping by stacking a dozen ufos in a crate. This is unless it delays receiving my UFO because you keep sitting on the fence till March.

 

 

 

New sail cut(top picture)-- (see seal at bottom of top picture)

 

23ie5g3.jpg

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The prototype came out orange but the color of the trim on the production sails is neon green, like the deck padding on Deathray, the boat in this video. Deck pads come in three color options: neon green, white and black. Black gelcoat for the hull may be an option as well, but it's awfully 2010. Anyway, here's some fun footage



DRC

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Did you sail through that event @ 3:22?

Unclear with the edit right after if it was a stop and go or stop and swim.

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Did you sail through that event @ 3:22?

Unclear with the edit right after if it was a stop and go or stop and swim.

Shoulda left more in there. Yup. It pulled right back up and was ready to go again. One of my favorite features of the boat. It's a combination of the two bows and the big buoyant mainbeam that makes it happen. If you crash in, the boat just pulls its self back out without throwing you and it's a matter of sheeting back in to return to foiling.

 

DRC

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I'll take ours in whatever color and sail number combo is available first.

 

Otherwise your two Baylor bears will be thrilled with green. And TEX numbers.

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This UFO must be alien-tech from outer space. @2:51 in the video you can see how the port-side hull starts to flicker. :blink: I guess the power-plant interferes with the holograph or the speed at which he rides that thing morphs time and space. I want this UFO more than ever.

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Dave - Noticed in most all the videos that you are very, very, active with the mainsheet. Or do I misunderstand? Pumping as a technique to get or stay on foil or something else? Wess

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Wess, I think Dave explained in another post, that you steer straight and sheet for maintaining the heel. So unless you have very steady wind and speed, you will be sheeting in and out. From what I saw on youtube, this seems to be the same for other foiling dinghies.

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My guess is that while Dave perhaps did some pumping, it's likely that the vast majority of his sheeting was for balance as Tom noted. I knew going into my test that I would have to play the sheet, but I did not play it nearly enough, nor aggressively enough, which resulted in lots of wipeouts to weather. One had better be good at hand over hand sheeting to sail this thing well, but I think that can be learned in fairly short order.

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My guess is that while Dave perhaps did some pumping, it's likely that the vast majority of his sheeting was for balance as Tom noted. I knew going into my test that I would have to play the sheet, but I did not play it nearly enough, nor aggressively enough, which resulted in lots of wipeouts to weather. One had better be good at hand over hand sheeting to sail this thing well, but I think that can be learned in fairly short order.

You guys are spot on. Boatspeed in the UFO is all about good sheet hands. It's funny watching the occasional guy working from a laser sensibility trying to torso-hike the boat through a puff to keep a constant heel angle. That never pays off. Far too brutal and not as responsive. The game is to steer a clean smooth and predominantly straight path, find a good static hiking position for your body and then do nothing but play the mainsheet to hold an optimal windward heel angle. A lot of people in dinghy sailing already have a sheet hand at that resolution. If you don't it takes some learning, but all told it's an extremely rudimentary task simply done at a high resilution, and it's one of the few sailing skills you can practice while sitting at a desk. Take 6 feet of rope, tie a loop around your shoe and practice sheeting your foot in and out. People may look at you funny, but just stare back at them and say you're preparing yourself to fly on a UFO and you'll be left in peace from then on.

 

DRC

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So it's just like sailin an IC? I remember having to learn all about main sheet triming on 204, but it was only like 12" in or out at most, but very important for staying upright when on end of seat. Love the green!

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So it's just like sailin an IC? I remember having to learn all about main sheet triming on 204, but it was only like 12" in or out at most, but very important for staying upright when on end of seat. Love the green!

I'd be associating the UFO with a lot of instability that it doesn't have if I said it's like an IC. However, as with the bulk of really fast boats, it has that same need for quality sheeting. The people who I've seen hop into the UFO and nearly show me up are I14 and 505 crews, IC sailors, moth sailors and people with solid windsurf chops. So yeah, if you've got that knack all ready, expect to click with the UFO all most immediately. If you haven' learned that yet, all it takes is practice.

 

DRC

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So it's just like sailin an IC? I remember having to learn all about main sheet triming on 204, but it was only like 12" in or out at most, but very important for staying upright when on end of seat. Love the green!

I'd be associating the UFO with a lot of instability that it doesn't have if I said it's like an IC. However, as with the bulk of really fast boats, it has that same need for quality sheeting. The people who I've seen hop into the UFO and nearly show me up are I14 and 505 crews, IC sailors, moth sailors and people with solid windsurf chops. So yeah, if you've got that knack all ready, expect to click with the UFO all most immediately. If you haven' learned that yet, all it takes is practice.

 

DRC

 

Well I better race you then! Haha :-)

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Finally cracked the sailing world membership system and I was able to download the back issue. It's a good read and worth the subscription for those with my impatience.

 

Dave- if you ever just feel like it, I would love a walk around video of the boat on the ground. Maybe you don't want to show the components yet for various reasons, but if not, it would be helpful. Trying to dissect how it's built from your sailing videos is hard. I would guess some potential buyers may want to see this too.

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Finally cracked the sailing world membership system and I was able to download the back issue. It's a good read and worth the subscription for those with my impatience.

Dave- if you ever just feel like it, I would love a walk around video of the boat on the ground. Maybe you don't want to show the components yet for various reasons, but if not, it would be helpful. Trying to dissect how it's built from your sailing videos is hard. I would guess some potential buyers may want to see this too.

Would second the video tour but I suspect you will end up being bombarded with questions

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Does adjusting the ride height with the wand length require any tools or is it tightened by hand?

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Adjust by hand. On the proto at least, it's a friction fit. Hop off the boat between the hulls, adjust height, get back on boat and go.

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Any demo schedule for eastern U.S. ? I'm in Atlanta.

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Been awfully busy over here and some questions built up.

Video setup, tour of the boat and loading demonstration are all on the cards.

Ride height is done by hand. No part of the assembly, setup or tuning require tools. We carry an Unfuckatron to all IC events which contains a good array of tools, spare parts and enough materials to sustain heavy hull damage and get back up and racing by the next day. That's not a very one-design way to live and we took pains to make sure no tools at all were required for the UFO.

Demo schedule is still being drafted. A serious pavement-pounding along the eastern seaboard is in the plan.

DRC

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The project looks seriously wonderful, sounds like orders are off to a good start (I hope so), and I'd love to foil before I go poof (I'm about two generations older than Dave). But I seriously doubt I'd be physically able to keep the boat flying for more than a few seconds at a time. Active sheeting like Dave demonstrates, especially without jerking the tiller extension all over the place, is another world from even the roughest sail trimming assignment I've ever had. Very impressive.

 

Now if there was a video of Steve on a UFO foiling along...

 

I may be mistaken, but it does sound like there are a few orders from "more mature" sailors, I'll be following with interest.

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I've wondered about the active sheeting requirement as well. Might a longer extension stuck under the armpit alleviate some of the tiller jerking?

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I've wondered about the active sheeting requirement as well. Might a longer extension stuck under the armpit alleviate some of the tiller jerking?

Just to be clear, IMO Dave does a spectacular job of NOT jerking the tiller while sheeting in and out. I was simply saying I'm not sure I could mimic Dave's sheeting, and even if I did, I'd probably be jerking the tiller all over the place.

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I've wondered about the active sheeting requirement as well. Might a longer extension stuck under the armpit alleviate some of the tiller jerking?

 

Just to be clear, IMO Dave does a spectacular job of NOT jerking the tiller while sheeting in and out. I was simply saying I'm not sure I could mimic Dave's sheeting, and even if I did, I'd probably be jerking the tiller all over the place.

I am sure Dave said somewhere the UFO should keep you interested for a long time, you get a grin on your first outing but still feel challenged down the line, I am heavily paraphrasing. The exact helming technique will be pat of that.

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The project looks seriously wonderful, sounds like orders are off to a good start (I hope so), and I'd love to foil before I go poof (I'm about two generations older than Dave). But I seriously doubt I'd be physically able to keep the boat flying for more than a few seconds at a time. Active sheeting like Dave demonstrates, especially without jerking the tiller extension all over the place, is another world from even the roughest sail trimming assignment I've ever had. Very impressive.

 

Now if there was a video of Steve on a UFO foiling along...

 

I may be mistaken, but it does sound like there are a few orders from "more mature" sailors, I'll be following with interest.

Orders are indeed rolling in. Regarding the sheet-hand deal, I think some people are taking some of this description as absolute. Speed in the UFO (as in 'fast for a UFO') is about sheeting really well, or at least that's where my technique takes me, Using the UFO is a lot less about the quality of ones sheet hand. When you're running at max ride height you want to be pretty decisive with the sheeting to avoid toppling. Usually when you've engaged max ride height with the intent of sailing hard anyway. When you ride lower, you can sheet a lot less well and still spend the majority of your time in the air and just rely on the hulls to catch you in the event of an error. Unlike on some other boats, they'll plane and kick you back up in this orientation. Also, when you're down low there is more strut in the water and less heel potential so the penalty on heeling the struts to leeward is lower. For the true beginner I often advise sailing along and using foil assist to plane like crazy and fly the weather hull. From there you can flirt around with fully taking off and then coming back down to planing on and off for hours. In this mode you barely have to sheet. So for the truly geriatric the deal is to keep your expectations modest and stay down where safety is at its maximum. There are a couple UFO customers in the 70 y/o range and that's pretty much my exact spiel on the topic. Considering cost, ease of use, ease of launch, safety around flight and ease of getting home in an exhausted state the UFO fits the "must fly before I die" mold probably better than any other option. It's not a requirement to sail the boat like I sail it, just like it isn't a requirement to sail a laser downwind by the lea and heeled to windward. It's just what I do. You'll note from our presentation at foiling week that we were trying to aim for more than one stage in a sailors career; to be a continuum rather than a point. We are not fans of endless market-fracturing. What we've got is a boat that can accommodate a recent bic graduate, but keeps elite nutjobs like me entertained as well. The last thing I wanted was to create a one-design and then get bored with it.

 

 

DRC

 

edit: tink replied while I was writing this. Exactly, tink!

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Excellent explanation, and it does make sense (e.g. not marketing hyperbole). And to be honest, I'd forgotten (another old guy affliction) your earlier 'start out with a low ride height' discussion. Thanks.

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MidPack - you politely refer to some of us as "more mature", thank you.

That description may apply to some of us, but many of us are just "old".

Adventurous, but old.

(I start paying rent on my UFO dock space on Wednesday :) .)

Charlie

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You tell 'em Charlie! Us ancients will never give up, never surrender, and will still sail. UFO is gunna look real nice next to the S9's there.

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Thanks, Dave, for the thorough explanation.

 

More mature, huh? Funny man...

 

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I've wondered about the active sheeting requirement as well. Might a longer extension stuck under the armpit alleviate some of the tiller jerking?

 

Grief guys, you should be sailing like that on *every* boat. Uffa figured this out back in the 20s, got to play that sheet and keep her flat... Practice practice in your current boat and you'll go faster in that.

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The sheeting is an acquired skill, but by no means is it difficult. If you're worried about trying to learn it on your own in a laser or other single-hander, try it in a double-handed boat. Have the skipper steer a straight course from the tell-tales and you can sheet, ideally keeping the boat flet so nobody has to move their weight for an entire beat. Same idea on a laser, UFO, IC, etc, you just also have to think about steering.

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You should see my skipper in the 505. Sometimes back when he was little, I had to take over for him due to fatigue. You have to work the sails to keep any proper dinghy going her best. This is no different, fundamentally.

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The sheeting is an acquired skill, but by no means is it difficult. If you're worried about trying to learn it on your own in a laser or other single-hander, try it in a double-handed boat. Have the skipper steer a straight course from the tell-tales and you can sheet, ideally keeping the boat flet so nobody has to move their weight for an entire beat. Same idea on a laser, UFO, IC, etc, you just also have to think about steering.

No one said it was difficult or mysterious, but I've watched Dave's videos and he is very active, I'm not sure how long I could keep up that pace. But he reminded me that the UFO can fly in low mode to learn or take a break, and go into high mode as desired. Looks like the user can choose ride height over many levels if not a continuum.

 

If any of my remarks are taken as critical of the UFO, it's not intended. I love the boat all considered, something different, a great value proposition, and a bridge to foiling.

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MidPack, sorry, I meant "difficult" as in it would be difficult for somebody to sustain it. The motion itself is not terribly hard to figure out, certainly not as a reactionary action, seeing and anticipating wind variations takes a little bit of skill. But mostly the "difficult" I'm trying to refer to (and I realize re-reading my post that I could have pointed this out) is that it's actually possible to make the sheeting motion very efficient while still being quick, but figuring out the motion and how to pull for that efficiency is difficult (lots of trial and error). If you learn to do the sheeting on a double handed boat, which often has a higher sheet load than the UFO will, then quick efficient motions will be easier when you get on the UFO.

 

(I don't know if that helps at all or if it just makes things more confusing)

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Reht: No problem. I can imagine active sheeting on a double handed boat with the other person driving. I can also imagine active sheeting arms length.

 

Dave is very actively sheeting with hand over hand with both hands while holding on to the tiller (extension), and keeping the tiller and rudder straight.

 

I'm an old dude...

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Reht: No problem. I can imagine active sheeting on a double handed boat with the other person driving. I can also imagine active sheeting arms length.

 

Dave is very actively sheeting with hand over hand with both hands while holding on to the tiller (extension), and keeping the tiller and rudder straight.

 

I'm an old dude...

Observations like this really intrigue me. If I can get an hour away from the supply line stuff and get sailing this week I'm going to take a look at dropping a loop out of the mainsheet. There are some downsides to it (lower mechanical advantage) , but for the slow-handed it may prove a useful short term setup fix. This wouldn't violate the one-design, since it would involve simply moving a knot, rather than adding hardware. While there's no substitute for developing a good quick sheet hand, having viable intermediate ameliorative options may be kinda cool.

 

DRC

 

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I have sailed 505 with center sheet at both 3:1 and 4:1. I prefer 3:1 because it is faster. Sae thing applies here. Trade strength and speed.

I haven't messed with the canoe sheeting. Same way it was as the Clark's set it up:-)

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It seems to me people are getting too wound up over sheeting. Dave's last video shows him aggressively sheeting when the boat is at full ride height, and the wind is getting up there. The beauty of the UFO is that one does not always have to be sailing at full ride height, so one can work on their sheeting technique, as well as endurance and strength, over time at lower height.

I will be interested to know how sailing with the main in one-to-one trim will work as far as load on the sheet is concerned. My guess is that the load on the sheet won't be insignificant in one-to-one trim, so any gain from slower sheeting will be more than offset by load on the main. But that's just a guess.

I'm not sure which post number it is, but Dave describes how to practice sheeting the UFO while at the office. I for one am going to follow his advice.

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i watched the video you guys are talking about...

 

the "active sheeting" is not hugely different than what is needed with a Laser on a windy reach..., if you want to be fast...

 

i'm pretty sure anyone here can figure it out.

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First, I am so sorry I even briefly mentioned sheeting a page ago. Never thought it would turn into such a topic or tangent. Anyone who has ever raced a Laser has hand over handed in much more sheet, while steering around the leeward mark. I was just surprised at parts of the (much now) earlier UFO video with very active (hand over hand as opposed to arm length) sheeting while holding a course.

 

 

 

Reht: No problem. I can imagine active sheeting on a double handed boat with the other person driving. I can also imagine active sheeting arms length.

Dave is very actively sheeting with hand over hand with both hands while holding on to the tiller (extension), and keeping the tiller and rudder straight.

I'm an old dude...

Observations like this really intrigue me. If I can get an hour away from the supply line stuff and get sailing this week I'm going to take a look at dropping a loop out of the mainsheet. There are some downsides to it (lower mechanical advantage) , but for the slow-handed it may prove a useful short term setup fix. This wouldn't violate the one-design, since it would involve simply moving a knot, rather than adding hardware. While there's no substitute for developing a good quick sheet hand, having viable intermediate ameliorative options may be kinda cool.

DRC

 

 

Above is interesting Dave. Doing this from recall but thought you had same mainsheet purchase as a Laser and greater sail area. Is that correct? Be curious how removing the loop works out. Again, sorry for the white noise the topic created.