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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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Though neglected hard to find a prettier boat than a wood decked FD.

post-101699-0-58903900-1472915973_thumb.jpgLooks like a much more worthy project than a few derelicts in my part of the world.

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In the words of the sainted Jeremy Clarkson - "How hard can it be"

making progress

got the crap all cut out and new mast thingy done and glassed in, forestay thingy done too

will get pics of the epoxy/glassed in stage taken tomorrow

let the hate begin

post-125537-0-52967300-1473077417_thumb.jpg

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you're gonna have fun with this baby!

don't you want to clear out all ropes for this job? They won't like the varnishing part...

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I don't want to pee in your cornflakes, but noww would be a good time, if you are going to upgrade to the modern day kite, to enlarge the spinnaker tube. It's too small for it.

Who made your boat initially? It's got the middle bulkhead, so it's a much stiffer boat than the normal woodies we see. Please post pics as you go, and I'll motivate the FD guys to help, as well. Where are you located?

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Thanks for that helpful info Seat. D. I am in new zealand, built here i think , glass hull, was owned by a Milton Pope who was class secretary for decades, he died about 10 yrs ago and i think it was raced for a few more years by christine headingley then fell off the radar until it turned up in its current state early this year. I think it may have been the 3rd nz glass hull.

No idea who orig builder was, not terribly impressed with build quality, think it has previously had the foredeck redone, all sorts of half assed bodges been done over the years, eg glass and resin stuck over paint, just peels off.

I have done an internal sleeve repair to mast so not confident re increasing loads on it eg bigger spin. No sense in spending about nz$3000 to go to carbon rig on unproven and prob overweight nz$700 boat.

I am never going to be a top flight gun sailor so will probably make boat a bit more practical and simplify the spaghetti, extend false floor to transom, add a short rear deck and some bouyancy to the aft sides.

Just about ready to do the meranti foredeck now depending on weather, only have semi sheltered work area, they really are massive for a dinghy when you see one in the "flesh"

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This FD KC100 is mentioned on a old FD thread that I can't find. Built on a mold taken off a Hoare hull but dressed out like a Mader.

While you have the deck off and still have access I'd consider adding some backing for jib leads for a smaller foresail.

It will make the boat way easier to solo and sail with crew who are intimidated by the trapeze.

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I'd be tempted to put the backing along the edge of the Y bulkhead as that would be the strongest point and easy access thru the ports.

Don't know what you have for sails but if you have a spare Genoa you could cut it down to fit and still furl when needed.

This project is on my winter wishlist.

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sounds like a good plan if you want to sail single handed.

I would put the 2nd attachement point roughly 2/3 between mast and the main genoa attachment point.

You might have issues with the length of the spare genuo, as the distance from the second attachement point to the top will be considerably less as for the full size genoa.

Nothing you couldn't get cut-down, but it'd more simple if you don't have to (leech cut only)

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Don't waste time/money cutting down a FD genoa for a blade. Because the shrouds on an FD are aft & outboard, the sail shape of the genoa is tortured to make it work. The genoa is cut with a large, flat leading front, then a lot of curve at the shrouds to shape the sail inboard to the lead. This flat leading front half let the boat point higher than a 'normal' sail shape. But if you cut the back half off, you'll end up with a sail with a lot of curve in the new leach area, exactly what you don't want. Find a used sail that was built to the dimensions you plan on.

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Don't waste time/money cutting down a FD genoa for a blade. Because the shrouds on an FD are aft & outboard, the sail shape of the genoa is tortured to make it work. The genoa is cut with a large, flat leading front, then a lot of curve at the shrouds to shape the sail inboard to the lead. This flat leading front half let the boat point higher than a 'normal' sail shape. But if you cut the back half off, you'll end up with a sail with a lot of curve in the new leach area, exactly what you don't want. Find a used sail that was built to the dimensions you plan on.

Yes now that u mentioned this. It makes sense. Don't get rid of the leech of the genoa. Without it, the sail will have N unfavourable shape, imagine you cut off the last third of an airplane wing. It's not going to help either.

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This FD KC100 is mentioned on a old FD thread that I can't find. Built on a mold taken off a Hoare hull but dressed out like a Mader.

While you have the deck off and still have access I'd consider adding some backing for jib leads for a smaller foresail.

It will make the boat way easier to solo and sail with crew who are intimidated by the trapeze.

It was one of the last boats out of the Hoare mould. I'm pretty sure John Moyes had it built in 1982/3.

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yay

 

Nice boat shed ya got there, man! The boat is looking good too!

You did that very quickly, it always takes me weeks to do the cutting & grinding and then agonize over the final steps... often having to undo the previous night's work. Looking forward to seeing this one sailing!

 

FB- Doug

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Dude:

Do yourself a favor and strip the rigging and hardware out of this thing before you take another step.

Please make life easier and safer and get better results.

SHC

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Thanks for that guys, the hardware and rigging is coming out next, there is quite a lot of redundant and or broken stuff and I didn't want to pull it out until i had time to think through what I want to keep and what I want to change. The current system with shockcord tailing looks neat but adds a lot of friction, weight, complexity and reduces feel in some of the systems.

Progress will take a small hit as I have to work away on contract for next few weeks but will be restarting in late october.

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almost all stripped out, just the stupid genoa arm thingys have been glassed in as well as bolted so will have to be cut out when I have the aft decks off

do they serve any useful purpose, they just seem to alter the sheeting point height by about 2-3 inches at most?

post-125537-0-04692200-1475302362_thumb.jpg

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Good for you. You can now really see what you have to attack, and won't get you tools wound up in loose cordage. You also won't get glue on anything you want to reuse.

FD rules have a limit on how far aft the Genoa turning blocks can be place. To maximize the size of the genoa, the sailors have come up with various work arounds. Moving the lead above the deck was one. Also, with a sailplane dominated by the jib, it was thought that easy and effective control of the lead was key to changing gears.

As you goal is to have a fast days sailing Dutchman, you can probably delete them.

I believe more modern Dutchmen have simplified the problem by having a line of crinkles op the clew instead of a ton of stuff under the deck. Others will have better info.

SHC

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And we're back in the game - front was straightforward replacement mainly, rear is going to need more thought

there is no bouyancy aft , this upsets me, no not using air bags, too expensive and just plain don't like them, never have, never will, too much like an optimist!

also the rear does not drain freely out of the transom there is a marked lip which traps water

the loose plan is to marderise the rear including some bouyancy tankage and to build up the floor and lose the bailers altogether, they are in v poor condition anyway.

that way less drag and water straight out the back with no sinking tail when we capsize.

Any better ideas out there?

post-125537-0-69701000-1477270715_thumb.jpg

post-125537-0-47154000-1477270723_thumb.jpg

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look at the underside of what came out, ultimate bodgery, like pretty much everything else on this boat - you would think that the builder would have taken a bit of pride in his work - this is a Flying Dutchman for goodness sake, not a rowing boat for hire on the local lake.

post-125537-0-61417400-1477283936_thumb.jpg

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And we're back in the game - front was straightforward replacement mainly, rear is going to need more thought

there is no bouyancy aft , this upsets me, no not using air bags, too expensive and just plain don't like them, never have, never will, too much like an optimist!

also the rear does not drain freely out of the transom there is a marked lip which traps water

the loose plan is to marderise the rear including some bouyancy tankage and to build up the floor and lose the bailers altogether, they are in v poor condition anyway.

that way less drag and water straight out the back with no sinking tail when we capsize.

Any better ideas out there?

Hi randy

 

I have an fd with tge same setup as yours.

To floatation in the back.

When i bought tge boat it had the air bags in it. They didn't help much. I got rid of them after a while with no replacement.

A double floor all the way to the Stern would be ideal for the reasons you stated.

I did a smaller repair job on mine a couple of years ago and thought of installing a double floor but didn't wont to do the effort. I only sail recreationally and to be honest it's ok. Not ideal but ok.

 

I would do it exactly as you suggested. Sounds like a good plan.

Thanks for posting all the pictures!

Have fun!

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doing all those irksome jobs where you put in hours of work but there is very little to show for it

got all the crap ground off and a coat of epoxy on the mid cockpit area

started pulling out bailers but they have been resined in I think so is going to be more work than expected to make good

started the false floor supports aft

post-125537-0-98768200-1477696496_thumb.jpg

post-125537-0-23933400-1477696504_thumb.jpg

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As for the cutting down of a jib, the 505 jib without the stiffener works just fine with a painter for the head to take the load. It worked great when I did it, and if you ask nicely, I'd even mail it to you. Can't beat that for a deal.

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Grrrr, different sized holes - port ones bigger than stbd, didn't notice until I put photo on pc, will need to fix it or it will bug me forever.

 

which holes?

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The 2 holes cut with holesaws in the port side forward thingy, happily they are not yet glued in so was sort of easy to correct and all symmetrical now, should be some more progress on the underpinnings in next few days then all ready to floor up.

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and more

Hi there! Would it be possible to provide me with some additional details of the Genoa track swing arms? More specifically, dimensions and a schematic of how this thing works with its lines.

 

Thank you in advance!

 

Kind regards

Dionisis

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Make sure you rinse the this first and foremost when you pull her out of the water., especially saltwater... it's like a 12v battery going in in there. I love watching your project come together.. please keep posting as you go!

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Thanks SD but it is coming out, far too complex for what it does. I have had to work away from home a lot in the past few months which is why progress has slowed a lot, it is still going, it just takes ages to custom fit all the new floor supports, etc. Should be some more pics in the next week.

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If you are going to epoxy coat the underside of the double bottom ply, it is worthwhile putting a layer of light Kevlar or woven glass on it as this will make a huge difference in strength.

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At the moment the plan is a sandwich - 9mm meranti floor with epoxy underside for water protection, layer of light glass down whole floor existing and new - then 4mm meranti planking over whole shebang for appearance and strength

The original setup would have had anywhere between 20 and 40+ liters slopping around on the floor trapped in the webs when sailing in any kind of breeze.

The rear third which is important for drive off the wind and the main support for the substantial size rudder was relatively flimsy compared to the bow and midships.

My current idea is to add modest amt dry weight to boat to stiffen rear third and more importantly reduce wet weight when sailing as well as the bouyancy issues I have mentioned before.

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At the moment the plan is a sandwich - 9mm meranti floor with epoxy underside for water protection, layer of light glass down whole floor existing and new - then 4mm meranti planking over whole shebang for appearance and strength

The original setup would have had anywhere between 20 and 40+ liters slopping around on the floor trapped in the webs when sailing in any kind of breeze.

The rear third which is important for drive off the wind and the main support for the substantial size rudder was relatively flimsy compared to the bow and midships.

My current idea is to add modest amt dry weight to boat to stiffen rear third and more importantly reduce wet weight when sailing as well as the bouyancy issues I have mentioned before.

In my experience, having built over 100 ply dingies, with sufficient stringers and either 170g Kevlar or 300g WR on the underside, 6mm oukoume ply should be sufficiently strong enough for a double bottom and will keep the weight down. Your above mentioned option will be complete overkill and very heavy as well as labour intensive.

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this bit has taken forever but nearly done

Great work!

I thought about doing this on my similar fd a view years ago. But i knew it would be too time consuming and complicated (be all have restrictions:skill and time).

Thumps up for the effort!

I'd also keep it simple from here on, but it's your project.

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