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Groucho Marx

Frog

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Politely requested that I should move my Frog postings from the Pulse 600 page ... so here are some early construction shots of the foiler. Initially it was meant to be a performance fast cruise trailerable design but it morphed in to something else. However it still can by trailed - although we shifted it as a car topper to water.

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ROFPMSL

ROFPMSL

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Awesome work fella.

Hope it sails as fast as it looks.

That was some mad car topping shots - please re-post here for those that haven't seen.

 

Good luck with debugging it - looking forward to seeing how she goes.

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It's a Multifoil. 😝

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outrigger assisted mono?
Whatever it is, it certainly looks interesting and nicely built too.
Thanks for the new thread, I wasnt really following the other one so glad I checked on it and saw this machine.
Please keep posting pics, info and videos when available..

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Frog is a smaller version of Sid; 8.5 x 8 metre foiler with 11.5 metre "conventional" wing mast (first 2 photographs). But Frog's rig will be a D mast; Sid's leading edge mast cross section but with the area behind the central beam chopped off, with two mains shaped like a wing off the two tracks and connected at leech, inspired by the 1980s Miss Lancia's C Class rig, (3rd photograph); a poor man's full wing rig but one that can be reefed (see Bill Barry's idea for mast 2 main rotation, no sag to windward or leeward, last image)..

Frog's rig will not be as efficient as full wings like the new C Class and AC cats but still an improvement (I hope) on conventional rig/mast design.

Give me a few days and Frog's D mast will be finished. The 8.8 metre mast, without the two alloy tracks (curtain tube with one flange skill sawed off), weighs ... very little, guess around 12 kgs. At the moment Frog's platform with daggerboard and T rudder weighs 102 kgs - with rig and sail add maybe another 25-30 kgs. Fast Frog? Maybe?

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Can you detail the rig a little more?

Would really like to know how the leeches are connected - yet still slide past each other.

Is it correct to assume that the windward sail will extend past the leech tips of the leeward sail?

Thinking that the camber of the leeward sail - as it it sucked by the low pressure, will "shorten" its reach.

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At the moment (because we/I often change ideas daily) the leech batten areas will be held together in slots with sliding pins, or something similar and the reversing? cam arm will maintain sail outhaul pressure and therefore/hopefully will keep the sails tight and double airfoil shaped to leeward and to windward. One thing I realize in comparison to "normal" wing mast/single main is that the D shaped mast will Not have to rotate as far as the more conventional setup. And that is a plus. But the cam/mast rotation will be okay for the lower sections of the sails but there maybe fall off or sagging on the windward side higher up the rig. Which will mean another cam? And I haven't figured that part out yet. You could possibly go to lines running to blocks at the leech of the D mast ... but then that gets messy - and I still want to be able to reef easily.

8.5 metre Sid weighs 215 kgs and is an overpowering brute in 14 knots and above wind and needs to be reefed. So I'm figuring the light Frog will behave in a similar manner, probably worse ... especially with those "dangerous" non-floats and double foils.

But in the past, have found that following your nose, you quickly figure things out when defecation hits the fan ... because you have no other option but to figure it out fast. So we bash on.

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Looks like theres a bit of floatation in those outrigger foils?
I'd be worried about them bashing on the bottom in a bit of chop though..
Looking fwd to more progress pics- Cheers!

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Huge congrats, GB. This is a lovely, exciting contribution to the full experimentation of the form.

 

Best of everything as you rig and get to know your young beast.

.

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Thanks Chris.

Just hoping he who pollutes everything keeps away.

One guess?

 

The Dogfather of fLoiling?

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Thank goodness someone still has the motivation and balls to develop weird, wonderful and (fast) working stuff!

 

Please keep the updates coming!

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Could it be the fLaiLing doG?

 

+1 on the updates.

dont uPseT anyone ;)

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The inclining rig on Sid was a total failure because it broke at the bearing point in high winds and seas while moored. And I never got to sail it. It should have/could have ... but didn't. So pulled my head in and went back to the conventional setup that is now on Sid.

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Epoxy glued the sail tracks onto the D mast; Eric Eason came round and we sank a few exotic beers. You can see my focus is slightly off; 10% booze on empty stomach can do that, as you all know.

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Groucho, you and I will have to drink beer together one day (or maybe two) !

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Frog's D mast weighs 26 kgs including rigging and is ready to move when paint dries. the reclining Eric Eason is a reference to reveal full size proportions ... in contrast to a Doug Lord pond toy.

The other shot to reveal the 200mm mast chord - along with our 14 year old pet chook (who still lays eggs, by the way), also there as a reference to full size (and not a DL pond toy, as already mentioned).

We celebrated mast completion with some pretty crappy old classic NZ beers (in contrast with the earlier postings of Belgian brews) ... . you'll be very pleased to know?

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Good to hear you're still cracking Cosmic Egg jokes, aye.

Hmmm...You sure Eric isn't in highest possible spiritual spheres worshipping holy grounds of yet unidentified foiling sailable objects?

 

Hope she sails well, the Frog that is.

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As a Frenchman, I can only admire a boat called Frog!

 

A great project; and as said by others, it is always refreshing to see someone trying something out of the ordinary. The few pictures you show bring some questions.

 

First of all, this is badass cartoping...

 

For the construction, the first set of pictures seem to show plywood; but the hull shape seems to my untrained eye highly non-developable... How did you do that? Is it strip planking for the bottom and plywood for the wings?

Wood - epoxy construction, right? Do you vacuum bag? I see also some UD carbon on the wings. Correct?

 

Regarding the foils, it looks like you have two pairs.... of foils, I mean.

What is the thought behind the horizontal set of foils, which seem to be located at where should be the water line?

 

Please keep the pictures (and videos?) coming!

 

Thanks.

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No, no, never, never, Speng, we couldn't consume a member of the family. Actually the spoiled creature is in astonishing health, probably outlive us.

Laurent, la grenouille is tensioned 3 and 4 mm ply, no strip planking or vacuum bagging, some carbon here and there. The beam is ply box with airfoil fairings. here are some early photographs.

About the weird foils: the idea, yet to be proven, is that the lower leeward foil does all the high speed work; the upper near waterline foil, set at around 6-7 degrees angle of attack (I just eyed it, anyway it will change depending on crew position on main hull) is the safety job if hit by a gust when moving slowly or near stationary.

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Tour de Force plywooding, you old coot. The shapes are pure sex on a stick and I bet that the water loves that form just as much as I.

 

The bossy chicken has clearly won the day so often that it's no use ever thinking of the bird as a prey item. I wonder what she would do should you place a small vial of Poultry Seasoning next to her water source and get a quick snap of the reaction?

 

.

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crazy good looking (in an ugly kind of way), love to see a video of her going in the water....

 

VERY impressed with your strapping her on the car, you sir are a madman worthy or praise.

 

don't injure yourself on it :)

 

goodbye porkpie!

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Ha Chris. She'd gobble it down. Actually observing the two chooks feeding is amusing; we put down two separated piles and the overfed and spoiled bully runs from one to the other attempting to keep the speckled one away. Political and age pecking order? After feeding they sit down together as great friends, kind of like most politicians do.

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Had to angle the two mainsail sheaves so the halyards wouldn't foul the internal ring frames. Have, since taking this shot, epoxied small close fitting caps over the sheaves to stop halyards jumping and jamming. Little details - important?

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Nothing special, just strip planked Oregon with uni-directional carbon in high point load areas and sheathed in glass. Where the foils exit the bent section of the beam; this wooden area is ground out both sides over a few hand spans distance and then filled with carbon.

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Added two aircraft wing tanks? to the after sections of the floats to increase buoyancy; will fair them in tomorrow. Also carried the D Mast out and lashed it down. We are going to have some high winds in the next couple of days.

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If it's the same front that hit here and SA, your in for it !

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It will be coming from the west so we should be okay behind the headland in Cox's. That's about directly in line with the port float in my last photograph. Guessing it has dropped a little since your savaging episode in Victoria. But we wait .... with a little trepidation?

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Gary, can you point us to more info on that wingmast slotted sail set up ?

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http://www.arkema.com/en/innovation/arkema-sailing/arkema-boats/mini-6-50-prototype/

Red, Although there is a slot between the leading half of the rig, I think that occurs because of the two part design and that is simply where the hinges are. If there was a slot to increase airflow between the two elements, I think it would have to be larger. Also the rear element would have to move athwartships to function properly. But I could be completely wrong.

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Oh there is definitely a slot and a hinge, the aft half is also shaped with internal wishbones/battens. Looks like a big hinge/sleevey looking thing at the masthead holding it all up, further the mast is about 10/15% back from the leading edge making it hard to get the sail flat round the front, bloody interesting, hope they keep working on it, it looks powerful !

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Go to that link you sent me and blow up the first pic, clear daylight through the slot.

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You are correct, Red. And the after section is slid to windward a little too.

Interesting that the original art work has a catenary shape and less area than the leading section. Maybe the straight forward section leech and after section luff was easier to construct, also to control?.

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Perhaps that's just artistic licence the luff looks convex compared to the mast, almost a free flying luff !

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Frog's newly added "wing tanks" to the after areas of the minimal floats - a little more buoyancy out there for when moored. The D mast lashed across the single main beam, is on its flat after section carrying the two mainsail tracks - and reveals the moderate mast chord.

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Finally got the D mast up on Frog.

Had an interesting visit by one of the owners of the Newick 40 trimaran with half moon floats and wing mast that is on the hard at Little Shoal Bay; he wants to do some work on his rig ... so I offered the high tech pohutukawa crane to do so.

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I just drove past at lunchtime and noticed frog finally had a rig. She was leaning to starboard a fair bit, is that a tidal issue or is the 'at rest' position?

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Yes, leans quite a lot at rest (Sid does too) but I'm trusting that once moving the platform will straighten up. If not, I'm in trouble.

My compromise with float height is to not drag the windward foil, hence the beam/float/foil dihedral and the platform lean to leeward.

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Frog has had to wait while I repaired, altered, lightened and relaunched the Cox's Bay Skimmer (see photo) - which I gave away a couple of years ago to an enthusiast on Waiheke - and then had it returned to me. He has a 24-25 foot antique Mullet boat restoration project (see 22 foot Mulleties photo).. But will return to Frog maybe after the New Year. Actually all that is needed is for Frog's double luff main to be built. Oh yes, and increase the buoyancy of the mini floats.

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Well, it was too good a boat to just let die so I fixed it up. Also put inverted T foils on dagger and rudder. Couple of sailing friends want to sail on it so will do some local Arty Farty Wankers races. Wanted to go in the recent Sloans Beach Centreboard Regatta (see the above Mulletboats photograph) but the Skimmer is so light now it got blown over on its cradle a couple of days before the start - so although I repaired the masts, was too late to get there - so went rowing instead and took some shots.

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