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Gantt

2016 Paralympics - Rio

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Here's a link that contains where to watch, including live tracking and TV:

http://www.sailing.org/paralympics/rio2016/news/40749.php?utm_source=Making+Waves&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Para+World+Sailing+News+-+12+Sept#.V9c2jJgrJOa

 

Australia is off to a great start being in the lead of two of the three classes (2.4 metre and the Sonar):

http://www.sailing.org/paralympics/rio2016/results/index.php

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Dee Smith is in 3rd in the 2.4 meter......but I don't think we are allowed to mention his name on this site. God forbid if he medals...

 

Perhaps we can come up with a code name for him, in case anyone wants to be patriotic: "Go Delta Sierra!"

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Dee Smith is in 3rd in the 2.4 meter......but I don't think we are allowed to mention his name on this site. God forbid if he medals...

 

Perhaps we can come up with a code name for him, in case anyone wants to be patriotic: "Go Delta Sierra!"

Coming from a non disabled?? Why on earth you would root for him is beyond understanding. But thanks for the vote for Not Disabled Sailing.

 

Word is, in the 2.4mR second race there was a major wind shift, > 100 degrees, moving the back markers to the front. Only a few recovered to get back in front. If you look at the results you see in the first race where people actually fit in.

 

Video is non existent. More proof that sailing is OUT.

I communicated with USOC and got this answer. I have communicated back but do not expect an answer back.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: ME

Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 1:11 PM

To: USOC Communications <communications@usoc.org>

Subject: Paralympic Sailing

This is the last games sailing is going to be in the Paralympics.

The least you could do is have a live feed.

 

On 9/12/2016 12:19 PM, USOC Communications wrote:

Hi

 

Thank you for your interest in the 2016 Paralympic Games and Team USA.

 

We are offering a robust and record-setting amount of coverage, including every feed made available by the International Paralympic Committee. Because TeamUSA.org is the exclusive home for all Paralympic live streaming in our country, other websites are geo-blocked in the United States. However, we are offering the same feeds that are being shown around the world (via the Olympic Channel, International Paralympic Committee, Rio 2016, etc.). These same feeds are also being used by NBC to create its broadcasts on NBCSN.

 

Please note that select highlights from events that are not being streamed will be available on-demand at TeamUSA.org the following morning (as provided by the IPC).

 

Again, thanks for watching and go Team USA!

 

USOC Communications

 

 

The highlighted sentence basically says "No Sailing for You" because there is no daily video update for sailing as of now, 9am PST.

They also lay blame on the IPC.

 

I find it abysmal that the sailing countries that let Paralympic Sailing fail could not scrap enough $$ together to pay NBC to do a live feed for Sailings Last Hurrah in the Paralympics. I guess they (the sailing countries) don't care either.

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Dee Smith is in 3rd in the 2.4 meter......but I don't think we are allowed to mention his name on this site. God forbid if he medals...

 

Perhaps we can come up with a code name for him, in case anyone wants to be patriotic: "Go Delta Sierra!"

 

 

...I'm rooting for the german in the 2.4's,Heiko Kroeger,, he billeted me at KielerWoche ~24years ago,, I was always impressed how competitive he was in Lasers...... with one arm :blink::o

 

 

I hope nobody drinks the GaunoZikkaMartini :wacko:

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Dee Smith is in 3rd in the 2.4 meter......but I don't think we are allowed to mention his name on this site. God forbid if he medals...

 

Perhaps we can come up with a code name for him, in case anyone wants to be patriotic: "Go Delta Sierra!"

Coming from a non disabled?? Why on earth you would root for him is beyond understanding. But thanks for the vote for Not Disabled Sailing.

 

 

 

Hey I get it. The staff at SA and several others don't like the sailor representing the USA in the 2.4 meter class. But since he hasnt done or said anything to offend me, and SA gets pissed off from time to time with some perfectly nice people and some fun events (High Sierra), I have learned to base my judgement on my own views, not SA editorials. In the absence of any other information and I havent met him so I am left with the hard facts that he is representing the nation I call home in an event I hold in high esteem. Nick Scandone is one of my all time sailing and human being heroes for his achievements as a sailor and in life. So.....I doff my hat (and reach into my wallet) to support the men and women who participate in disabled sailing in general and the Paralympics in particular.

 

Delta Sierra is in the hunt for the medals still. We have strong medal hopes in at least two out of three events...so yeah you bet I follow the results and cheer on our team. But frankly I cheer on all of them. Sailing is a spectacular sport for the disabled and I get a lump in my throat watching it. It is criminal madness to drop sailing from the Paralympics.......it would be equivalent to suggesting that Latin American countries should be dropped from the FIFA World Cup to create places for the individual bedouin tribes in the Emirates (Although for enough money that can probably be arranged!)

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Dee Smith is in 3rd in the 2.4 meter......but I don't think we are allowed to mention his name on this site. God forbid if he medals...

 

Perhaps we can come up with a code name for him, in case anyone wants to be patriotic: "Go Delta Sierra!"

 

 

...I'm rooting for the german in the 2.4's,Heiko Kroeger,, he billeted me at KielerWoche ~24years ago,, I was always impressed how competitive he was in Lasers...... with one arm :blink::o

 

 

I hope nobody drinks the GaunoZikkaMartini :wacko:

 

Wow Heiko has an impressive resume.

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Dee Smith is in 3rd in the 2.4 meter......but I don't think we are allowed to mention his name on this site. God forbid if he medals...

 

Perhaps we can come up with a code name for him, in case anyone wants to be patriotic: "Go Delta Sierra!"

Coming from a non disabled?? Why on earth you would root for him is beyond understanding. But thanks for the vote for Not Disabled Sailing.

 

 

 

Hey I get it. The staff at SA and several others don't like the sailor representing the USA in the 2.4 meter class. But since he hasnt done or said anything to offend me, and SA gets pissed off from time to time with some perfectly nice people and some fun events (High Sierra), I have learned to base my judgement on my own views, not SA editorials. In the absence of any other information and I havent met him so I am left with the hard facts that he is representing the nation I call home in an event I hold in high esteem. Nick Scandone is one of my all time sailing and human being heroes for his achievements as a sailor and in life. So.....I doff my hat (and reach into my wallet) to support the men and women who participate in disabled sailing in general and the Paralympics in particular.

 

As an outsider, it seems to me that the problem is 2 fold. First, SA doesn't like Dee Smith. Whether than is justified, I have no idea. The second problem seems to be that they blame him and the USA yachting authorities for the rules that establish what is disabled and what isn't. The biggest issue I have is that it has been suggested that Smith was coached to appear to meet the requirements when he did not. If this is correct, then both Smith and the people who did that are despicable and deserve the contempt displayed. I am not sure how you prove that, so for now, it seems to be all innuendo, hearsay and rumour.

It is criminal madness to drop sailing from the Paralympics......

 

I agree, but the what was the International Paralympic Committee meant to do when the IFDS failed to provide the required documentation that would have kept the sport in the games (after giving them the opportunity to do so)? By the time it was known how incompetent they had been, it was too late to do anything. This is why World Sailing absorbed the IFDS, and while you have to question whether they are any better overall, you would have hoped they would have ensured the correct paperwork was done.

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Dee Smith is in 3rd in the 2.4 meter......but I don't think we are allowed to mention his name on this site. God forbid if he medals...

 

Perhaps we can come up with a code name for him, in case anyone wants to be patriotic: "Go Delta Sierra!"

Coming from a non disabled?? Why on earth you would root for him is beyond understanding. But thanks for the vote for Not Disabled Sailing.

 

 

 

Hey I get it. The staff at SA and several others don't like the sailor representing the USA in the 2.4 meter class. But since he hasnt done or said anything to offend me, and SA gets pissed off from time to time with some perfectly nice people and some fun events (High Sierra), I have learned to base my judgement on my own views, not SA editorials. In the absence of any other information and I havent met him so I am left with the hard facts that he is representing the nation I call home in an event I hold in high esteem. Nick Scandone is one of my all time sailing and human being heroes for his achievements as a sailor and in life. So.....I doff my hat (and reach into my wallet) to support the men and women who participate in disabled sailing in general and the Paralympics in particular.

 

As an outsider, it seems to me that the problem is 2 fold. First, SA doesn't like Dee Smith. Whether than is justified, I have no idea. The second problem seems to be that they blame him and the USA yachting authorities for the rules that establish what is disabled and what isn't. The biggest issue I have is that it has been suggested that Smith was coached to appear to meet the requirements when he did not. If this is correct, then both Smith and the people who did that are despicable and deserve the contempt displayed. I am not sure how you prove that, so for now, it seems to be all innuendo, hearsay and rumour.

 

 

 

GBR.....You could not have expressed my sentiments more clearly:-

 

1. SA didn't like Dee Smith in the first place.

They have been quite open about this:

"We’ve never liked Dee Smith. We’ve seen first hand what a dick he can be, and plenty of people who have sailed with or had interactions with the Bald Ego know exactly what that sentiment is all about. A yelling, berating, douchebag with a temper, we’ve always loathed guys like him, and him specifically. A good sailor, sure, but how he never got his ass thoroughly kicked for his bullshit act is a miracle."

He doesn't sound like my cup of tea, but maybe sailing with the Paralympics will give him a sense of humility.

 

2. Dee states that he was surprised to discover that his fused spine qualified him as a disabled sailor. He says that he never thought of himself as handicapped. I'm not sure how this constitutes faking his disabled qualifications. If he did fake his disability - yeah that would be absolutely despicable. But looking through all searches I have not seen one concrete suggestion that this happened. It seems to be more innuendo than rumor or even hearsay. One would hope that the Paralympic sailing certification process does a lot of due diligence.....but then one would hope they could return paperwork on time and look how that turned out!

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Dee Smith is in 3rd in the 2.4 meter......but I don't think we are allowed to mention his name on this site. God forbid if he medals...

 

Perhaps we can come up with a code name for him, in case anyone wants to be patriotic: "Go Delta Sierra!"

 

 

...I'm rooting for the german in the 2.4's,Heiko Kroeger,, he billeted me at KielerWoche ~24years ago,, I was always impressed how competitive he was in Lasers...... with one arm :blink::o

 

 

I hope nobody drinks the GaunoZikkaMartini :wacko:

 

Wow Heiko has an impressive resume.

 

.

 

....definitely the real mcCoy, in so many ways

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Daniel Fitzgibbon and Liesl Tesch in the SKUD18 were yet again on fire as they took two bullets from two races to seal the first ever Paralympic sailing title defence in commanding fashion.

In the Sonar, Colin Harrison, Russell Boaden and Jonathan Harris go in to the final race with a healthy 24-point lead and a guaranteed gold medal that ensures Advance Australia Fair will ring out on Flamengo Beach twice come the Medal Ceremony.

It was looking like the Australian anthem could be played three times as Matt Bugg came ashore with a four point lead in the One Person Keelboat (2.4 Norlin OD) only to be disqualified from the final race, demoting him to third and promoting Great Britain's Helena Lucas to the top spot.

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Congrats to Team AUS on a fantastic games. After all the crap one person has been piling on the Brits and Europeans, it is good to see other countries can be so professional and compete. For me, one of the big stand outs of these paralympic games has been the "professionalism" of competitors across all sports, proving that the disabled are benig given the same opportunities as their able bodied colleagues.

 

Feel a little sorry for Helena, not being able to compete properly in the last race because of a plastic bag around her rudder. What has been remarkable about the sailing across both events is that for all the water problems, this is the only case I have heard of where somebody has had a performance issue because of the rubbish in the water, and you can catch a "bag fish" anywhere in the world.

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As an outsider, it seems to me that the problem is 2 fold. First, SA doesn't like Dee Smith. Whether than is justified, I have no idea. The second problem seems to be that they blame him and the USA yachting authorities for the rules that establish what is disabled and what isn't. The biggest issue I have is that it has been suggested that Smith was coached to appear to meet the requirements when he did not. If this is correct, then both Smith and the people who did that are despicable and deserve the contempt displayed. I am not sure how you prove that, so for now, it seems to be all innuendo, hearsay and rumour.

 

Hey I get it. The staff at SA and several others don't like the sailor representing the USA in the 2.4 meter class. But since he hasnt done or said anything to offend me, and SA gets pissed off from time to time with some perfectly nice people and some fun events (High Sierra), I have learned to base my judgement on my own views, not SA editorials. In the absence of any other information and I havent met him so I am left with the hard facts that he is representing the nation I call home in an event I hold in high esteem. Nick Scandone is one of my all time sailing and human being heroes for his achievements as a sailor and in life. So.....I doff my hat (and reach into my wallet) to support the men and women who participate in disabled sailing in general and the Paralympics in particular.

 

 

 

 

GBR.....You could not have expressed my sentiments more clearly:-

 

1. SA didn't like Dee Smith in the first place.

They have been quite open about this:

"We’ve never liked Dee Smith. We’ve seen first hand what a dick he can be, and plenty of people who have sailed with or had interactions with the Bald Ego know exactly what that sentiment is all about. A yelling, berating, douchebag with a temper, we’ve always loathed guys like him, and him specifically. A good sailor, sure, but how he never got his ass thoroughly kicked for his bullshit act is a miracle."

He doesn't sound like my cup of tea, but maybe sailing with the Paralympics will give him a sense of humility.

 

2. Dee states that he was surprised to discover that his fused spine qualified him as a disabled sailor. He says that he never thought of himself as handicapped. I'm not sure how this constitutes faking his disabled qualifications. If he did fake his disability - yeah that would be absolutely despicable. But looking through all searches I have not seen one concrete suggestion that this happened. It seems to be more innuendo than rumor or even hearsay. One would hope that the Paralympic sailing certification process does a lot of due diligence.....but then one would hope they could return paperwork on time and look how that turned out!

 

 

No, you do not get it.

The system could have been fixed a long time ago. But sailing would have been eliminated from the Paralympics way way back.

The IPC stated, More Countries and More Women.

So the standards were ordered by the Able controllers, to be lowered and thus we have some Non Disabled Sailing in the Paralympics.

All this so some able people could keep getting paychecks from their countries.

 

Maybe now sailing can be about sailing and not a race for gold medals. They will still have Disabled World Championships where everyone (not just one per country) can compete until they fix the broken classification system. And I doubt they will do that because it will eliminate a few from the world level.

 

You have to remember, The big sailing countries elevated the cost of Disabled Paralympic so high that the emerging countries could never compete. They also saw the level of non-disabled competing (2 of the top 4) and chose other, more accessible, financially realistic sports.

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No, you do not get it.

The system could have been fixed a long time ago. But sailing would have been eliminated from the Paralympics way way back.

The IPC stated, More Countries and More Women.

So the standards were ordered by the Able controllers, to be lowered and thus we have some Non Disabled Sailing in the Paralympics.

All this so some able people could keep getting paychecks from their countries.

 

Maybe now sailing can be about sailing and not a race for gold medals. They will still have Disabled World Championships where everyone (not just one per country) can compete until they fix the broken classification system. And I doubt they will do that because it will eliminate a few from the world level.

 

You have to remember, The big sailing countries elevated the cost of Disabled Paralympic so high that the emerging countries could never compete. They also saw the level of non-disabled competing (2 of the top 4) and chose other, more accessible, financially realistic sports.

 

I think it is you who doesn't get it. Paralympians have the same rights as able bodied Olympians and must not be discriminated against. Your view discriminates against Paralympic competitors, because, if you had your way, Paralympians would not have the same training and support as their able bodied colleagues. I am not just talking about sailing. In every Olympic sport, there is a level of professionalism in the way they train and are funded. In the able bodied Olympics, there is a disparity between countries that have the funding and those that do not, just like in professional sports, where some teams are rich and others aren't. You cannot tell the leading countries that they cannot put together proper campaigns because it is unfair on those who cannot afford to do so. Looking at sailing, why should countries be any less professional than we see in other sports? That would discriminate against sailing as a sport.

 

Taking that into Paralympic sports, it is important that Paralympic sportsmen and women should have the same level of opportunity and support as able bodied. Follow that through and it would be wrong to fund Paralympic sailing any differently than able bodied sailing, just like it would be wrong to fund the sport any differently from any other sport. It is tough that some smaller, emerging nations cannot afford the same campaigns as some countries, but that is a simple fact of life for all sports, able bodied or disabled.

 

Next, your constant whinging about who should or should not be able to compete in the Paralympics. I cannot make any comment about Dee Smith, but I know Helena and I know her level of disability. To you and compared with you, she is less impaired. I am sure there are others who are also less impaired than you, but I also bet that there are some who are more impaired. What I do know is this. Helena is certainly at the lesser end of the disabled spectrum, but she is certainly disabled. I have always found it remarkable that she could even sail a "normal" boat because of the problems she has with her hands. She could do so not because of how minor her disability is but because of her sheer determination to overcome her lot in life. Instead of accepting her disability, she decided to overcome it instead. You consider Helena as having a negligible disability, which I can understand from your viewpoint, but you also have to understand that from the viewpoint of an able bodied sailor, I consider her disabled. You have to accept that there is a scale. Your view of what is a disability seems to require a bar that is far higher than one that would be set by an able bodied person. There will always be a range of disability in disabled sailing and there seems to be little that can be done about that.

 

You also deliberately distort the picture. You claim that 2 out of 4 aren't disabled, using that number to suggest there is a high percentage sailing who aren't disabled. Consider that there are 3 classes, which means that if we take the top 4 in each, there are 12 places of which you claim 2 are not disabled. So instead of your claimed 50% non disabled, if you are right about the 2 individuals, it is 16%, which is a very different problem.

 

The final point to note is that in the case of Helena, she does well not because of her lesser level of disability but because she makes better decisions. When you watch the 2.4's racing, you don't see a noticeable difference as they round marks, hoist and lower the kite etc. If you think a more disabled Helena wouldn't do as well, it is because you don't understand what makes a winner.

 

I believe you are a disgrace to disabled sport, because you represent everything that disabled sports people don't want. They want to be treated equally to their able bodied equivalent and they want the same opportunities. You clearly don't want them to have the same opportunities and believe that disabled sport should be more amateur and less professional. Shame on you. I will continue to support and fight for the rights of all disabled sports people to have exactly the same opportunities and funding as their able bodied counterparts.

 

So I once again acknowledge the great performance of the Australian team, the level of professionalism they brought and the opportunity that the team gave its athletes to compete on the same basis as their able bodied team. The same goes for Team GBR.

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If 2.4mr 'disabled' sailors also sail of 470,420,lasers,j24,f40, and AC yachts in what manner are they 'disabled'? As one sailor said 'its weird to see a disabled sailor standing on the bow of the boat jumping jump to snag a halyard'

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If 2.4mr 'disabled' sailors also sail of 470,420,lasers,j24,f40, and AC yachts in what manner are they 'disabled'? As one sailor said 'its weird to see a disabled sailor standing on the bow of the boat jumping jump to snag a halyard'

I think you have a pretty poor definition of "disabled" if you consider what they sail, rather than the limitations they have to overcome. The winner of the 2.4m gold was born without a left hand. Is he disabled? Before you answer that, consider that he also races a Class 40 in the TJV and Route du Rhum. I guess his efforts add a new meaning to the term "single handed sailing". It seems that you limit your definition of disabled to those who cannot stand. That seems wrong to me.

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If 2.4mr 'disabled' sailors also sail of 470,420,lasers,j24,f40, and AC yachts in what manner are they 'disabled'? As one sailor said 'its weird to see a disabled sailor standing on the bow of the boat jumping jump to snag a halyard'

I think you have a pretty poor definition of "disabled" if you consider what they sail, rather than the limitations they have to overcome. The winner of the 2.4m gold was born without a left hand. Is he disabled? Before you answer that, consider that he also races a Class 40 in the TJV and Route du Rhum. I guess his efforts add a new meaning to the term "single handed sailing". It seems that you limit your definition of disabled to those who cannot stand. That seems wrong to me.

 

 

Good God, whoever you are, if you have no skin in the game STFU. All you do is defend those that need no defending. Look at what is wrong, but you aren't involved are you?

 

You go right to the top of the games. I never said Damien or Matt were not disabled. What about the real disabled people who are trying really hard at the back of the pack but cannot compete with these barely disabled??

Matt is a paraplegic just like me.

Damien has a disability when sitting at a key board. When it comes to sailing he obviously does not, as many others are.

 

  • My argument is: When is a disability enough to be in disabled sailing.

  • The other Issue I have is WS and the MNA's have not address the issue of a feeder system to disabled sailing. The only feeder system is a few community programs with very little money. There is not one College that offers a disabled sailing program that I know of but they offer able sailing programs. It is a sad state for sailing.

 

As I have suggested in the past. Do away with all 3 currently used boats and use something like a Melges 24 with about 5 on board.

The system should rate the sailors as a crew or driver. The team would have to determine who is in charge.

Only the more severely disabled would be drivers and be in a bucket seat that moved from side to side. I have some good thoughts on some devices already in use. And yes Electronic controls would be allowed for the driver. This levels the teams.

 

Having owned and sailed the 2.4mR, I am not happy with the 2 foot pedals. I think there should be just 1 pedal (push pull) to keep steering when using your arms. I've seen rudder pumping in a subtle way in light air. It really favors 2 legs right now. I'm not saying Paraplegics cannot get to the top. Johnny Ruf, Matt Bugg and Paul Tingley have all been there done that. But the numbers are small.

If you really want to level the playing field make big changes. Which should happen unless WS keeps the weenies in charge.

It's all about the money and keeping people getting pay checks from your GBR National Lottery. So now you have to go get a real job.

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