Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

cwgarr

Trying to make a decision about the next boat

Recommended Posts

I want to throw myself on the tender mercies of the group and make a request for some opinions. I am a reasonably experienced sailor, done offshore, one design, owned a melges 24 for a while, and am an experienced technician and rigger. I am not by any measure anything other than an experienced club racer.

 

SO;

 

Having sold my J-24, I am now looking for the next boat. There are other one design options in my area, small M24 fleet, large Cal 20 fleet (Yawn), dying J24 fleet and some Martins and Merits and a building 105 fleet. The M24 does not appeal because I want something I can take offshore. I do want something that will allow me to scare myself a little in a breeze and that will reliably plane in 12-15. I accept that I will have to race PHRF and dont really care about the pickle dish count, I just want to go fast, have a boat under 35 feet and one that I can trailer. I also want a boat that in decent conditions has a reasonable chance to finish first B F B.

 

What I want is some reflections on a particular boat, specifically a Melges 32. I have only sailed on one twice, both times at the Annapolis Boat Show around the time they first came out. The boat has a scary rep and I am unsure if I would be biting off more than I can handle. I am sure I could sail it in medium stuff, but the big breeze is where the fun is at and I just wonder if it is too much for a determinably amateur crew.

 

SO: Whattaya think. Let me have it all. Thanks in advance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO, the Melges 32 is hands down the best PHRF boat every made. do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fast + off-shore + short handed + trailerable = think seascape = Seascape 27. Nice fun sail today in 25 KTS wind with staysail + reefed main. 3up (not hiking) with max speed of 13 KTS.post-74169-0-45894900-1474171486_thumb.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a easily planing sportboat high wind downwind is not as hard as it may seem. If you are doing 15 kts boatspeed in 25 kts TWS the apparent winds feels like 10 kts. The larger the boat and the more it is made for racing though the higher the human ballast needed to balance the usually very large sailplan. I can race my FE28R with as little as three crew but in anything over 10 kts TWS I really need 5 or 6 crew if I want the boat to perform as designed. I have not sailed a Melges 32 but in race pictures I see to 6 to 8 crew. Finding good crew is always a challenge and the more you need the harder it is. If I reef the boat does get easier to keep heel under control but it affects speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For racing in PDX with the river and often light air a M-32, while fun, could be a challenge. Also with a rating in the 20s you would be sailing by yourself a lot of the time which makes it tough to know if you are getting better

 

What about something like a Farr 30?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a easily planing sportboat high wind downwind is not as hard as it may seem. If you are doing 15 kts boatspeed in 25 kts TWS the apparent winds feels like 10 kts. The larger the boat and the more it is made for racing though the higher the human ballast needed to balance the usually very large sailplan. I can race my FE28R with as little as three crew but in anything over 10 kts TWS I really need 5 or 6 crew if I want the boat to perform as designed. I have not sailed a Melges 32 but in race pictures I see to 6 to 8 crew. Finding good crew is always a challenge and the more you need the harder it is. If I reef the boat does get easier to keep heel under control but it affects speed.

Please tell more.... The 23r has caught my attention. Are you happy with the buid?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am very happy with build. It's on par every other boat I've owned. ( Colgate, Beneteau, Irwin)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you want to go offshore and there's already a fleet, consider the 105. Wait, did I really say that out loud? 105s aren't cutting edge by any means, but they're well mannered and the more wind there is the more they like it. Easily handled with a shorthanded crew and plenty of tuning guides to get up to speed quickly, not to mention racing against an established fleet. the M32 might not be your best offshore option...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Antrim 27. Less money, less crew, super fun. 4 in the PNW already.

 

 

that was my thought. One of them did PacCup several times. Highly modified M32 did the recent pac-cup - I'd ask them how it went but sounds like it was pretty hard to slow her down in the really nasty stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Melges 32 is the pick but a good one can be expensive. Bang for buck... FE28 is a damn good thing. Or a FT10. Or a Farr 30 with a dick...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

What is the list price for an FE28r in the USA.

$50K

How about the 23r? Been meaning to send them an inquiry but have gotten to it yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

What is the list price for an FE28r in the USA.

$50K

How about the 23r? Been meaning to send them an inquiry but have gotten to it yet.
Found a boat show price of 29.8k USD including sails.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

What is the list price for an FE28r in the USA.

$50K

That lines up with the AUS price of $70k, which is plus sails, trailer & engine so about 100k AUD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

What is the list price for an FE28r in the USA.

$50K
How about the 23r? Been meaning to send them an inquiry but have gotten to it yet.
Found a boat show price of 29.8k USD including sails.

23r is a bit chubby in today's market at 800kg. Could shave some weight by going to a deeper lighter keel. 300kg @ 1.4m currently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Today's market is full of shit when talking about boat weight. You have several official categories like 1. "light displacement" (= empty boat with no sails and moveable equipment), 2. "ready to sail" (all neccessary equipment but no crew", 3. "fully crewed, fully loaded" ... etc.

 

We all agree that the boat sails with values @ 3.)and is represented at boat shows with @ 1.)

To make long story short, building serial boat in glass @800kg as described @1.) is quite good. Of course you can build lighter, but will be more expensive and will be much more fragile, which is a real pain in the ass for average weekend sailor. After all, we prefer sailing time than shipyard time...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 23r is stuck in 1993 & will be beaten by 20yr old sporties. It's probably well built & obviously well priced.

 

The 28r fills a nice whole in the market same price as a used M32 but without the complexity & cost - alloy rig, transom hung outboard, transom hung rudder, smaller kites & less crew required etc etc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 23r is stuck in 1993 & will be beaten by 20yr old sporties. It's probably well built & obviously well priced.

The 28r fills a nice whole in the market same price as a used M32 but without the complexity & cost - alloy rig, transom hung outboard, transom hung rudder, smaller kites & less crew required etc etc

yeah, I'm discovering that. It's still hard to beat a Melges 24 in that size range. Some say the M24 was way ahead of its time, but I think others just haven't kept up. Would really like a modern 3 person boat, but a $60k J70 just doesn't cut it. Might have to go back to the tried and true M24.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

modern and J70 shouldnt be in the same sentence...

so far my 23R seems not far behind my melges and gets there with less crew

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The 23r is stuck in 1993 & will be beaten by 20yr old sporties. It's probably well built & obviously well priced.

The 28r fills a nice whole in the market same price as a used M32 but without the complexity & cost - alloy rig, transom hung outboard, transom hung rudder, smaller kites & less crew required etc etc

yeah, I'm discovering that. It's still hard to beat a Melges 24 in that size range. Some say the M24 was way ahead of its time, but I think others just haven't kept up. Would really like a modern 3 person boat, but a $60k J70 just doesn't cut it. Might have to go back to the tried and true M24.

They have kept up, but they aren't production boats. Bethwaite 79'r (SPORTS 8) not the other design by the same name, Leech650 7 & 750, Shaw 650 & 7, Even build a Carbon Thompson 8 or Stealth / Egan 7 - 8.5m.

 

Here's a pic for inspiration - T8 http://www.asba.org.au/event/2016-asba-national-titles/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Melges 24 was absolutely years ahead of its time. Considering it was one of the first boats ever to have an asym chute (i think the only other boat was j105) correct me if I am wrong, it really changed the sailing industry. For a young guy like myself, it made sailboat racing fun and cool. I still think its one of the more modern boats on the market today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

The 23r is stuck in 1993 & will be beaten by 20yr old sporties. It's probably well built & obviously well priced.

The 28r fills a nice whole in the market same price as a used M32 but without the complexity & cost - alloy rig, transom hung outboard, transom hung rudder, smaller kites & less crew required etc etc

yeah, I'm discovering that. It's still hard to beat a Melges 24 in that size range. Some say the M24 was way ahead of its time, but I think others just haven't kept up. Would really like a modern 3 person boat, but a $60k J70 just doesn't cut it. Might have to go back to the tried and true M24.

They have kept up, but they aren't production boats. Bethwaite 79'r (SPORTS 8) not the other design by the same name, Leech650 7 & 750, Shaw 650 & 7, Even build a Carbon Thompson 8 or Stealth / Egan 7 - 8.5m.

Here's a pic for inspiration - T8 http://www.asba.org.au/event/2016-asba-national-titles/

yep, I've always had a hard-on for the Shaw 650.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am very happy with build. It's on par every other boat I've owned. ( Colgate, Beneteau, Irwin)

What is with the coming around the cockpit?? Pita hiking I assume??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I am very happy with build. It's on par every other boat I've owned. ( Colgate, Beneteau, Irwin)

What is with the coming around the cockpit?? Pita hiking I assume??

 

I'm not sure what you are referring to. What specifically? I find it easy to hike

 

P5070095.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Melges 24 was absolutely years ahead of its time. Considering it was one of the first boats ever to have an asym chute (i think the only other boat was j105) correct me if I am wrong, it really changed the sailing industry. For a young guy like myself, it made sailboat racing fun and cool. I still think its one of the more modern boats on the market today.

HA HA HA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Melges 24 was absolutely years ahead of its time. Considering it was one of the first boats ever to have an asym chute (i think the only other boat was j105) correct me if I am wrong, it really changed the sailing industry. For a young guy like myself, it made sailboat racing fun and cool. I still think its one of the more modern boats on the market today.

HA HA HA
It's cruel to laugh at the afflicted Christian. Maybe his carer only lets him read j-boats and melges marketing brochures, so he missed the numerous sporties with assos in the late 80's, who were only copying what had been happening in all of the skiff classes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so he missed the numerous sporties with assos in the late 80's???? Your kidding right? Yup I missed that one. Nothing inspires a younger sailor more than some test boat from the 80s that never went anywhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Melges 24 was absolutely years ahead of its time. Considering it was one of the first boats ever to have an asym chute (i think the only other boat was j105) correct me if I am wrong, it really changed the sailing industry. For a young guy like myself, it made sailboat racing fun and cool. I still think its one of the more modern boats on the market today.

HA HA HA
It's cruel to laugh at the afflicted Christian. Maybe his carer only lets him read j-boats and melges marketing brochures, so he missed the numerous sporties with assos in the late 80's, who were only copying what had been happening in all of the skiff classes

 

You're right - BUT - at least I didn't call him a narrow-minded fuckwit member of the sailing deplorables

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The 23r is stuck in 1993 & will be beaten by 20yr old sporties. It's probably well built & obviously well priced.

The 28r fills a nice whole in the market same price as a used M32 but without the complexity & cost - alloy rig, transom hung outboard, transom hung rudder, smaller kites & less crew required etc etc

yeah, I'm discovering that. It's still hard to beat a Melges 24 in that size range. Some say the M24 was way ahead of its time, but I think others just haven't kept up. Would really like a modern 3 person boat, but a $60k J70 just doesn't cut it. Might have to go back to the tried and true M24.

The Melges 24 is still a great boat, but crew intensive, for similar performance with cruising interior, easy trailering and optimized for short handed sailing take a look at the Seascape 24. Its the latest of the Seascape range of trailerable boats and is starting to show its potential - see the 2016 Danish Silver Rudder 134 NM results for example. For those of you in North America - it will be on display in Annapolis for the first time next week. Designed by Samuel Manuard in cooperation with the factory like all Seascapes. Pricing is competitive to new comparable size boats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites