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DTA

How Does Buying a UFO Foiler Work???

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I thought that Dave Clark was just tying to get investment money so that he could find a manufacturer and begin manufacturing the UFO. So, I was surprised to find out, in another thread, that the UFO is way further along. It seems that commercial production has already begun, or is about to begin. I guess that would mean that we could start buying the UFO by the end of this year???!!!!

 

Insofar as I had my heart set on buying an RS700 next Spring, this is terrible news because it creates chaotic discord where there was previously peaceful harmony. But nonetheless:

 

What are the purchasing details? Do we buy straight from UFO headquarters and they ship it to us? Are we supposed to go through a local distributor? What kind of trailer do I need for it?

 

This is so awful - like having to choose between two gorgeous girlfriends back in high school.

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I thought that Dave Clark was just tying to get investment money so that he could find a manufacturer and begin manufacturing the UFO. So, I was surprised to find out, in another thread, that the UFO is way further along. It seems that commercial production has already begun, or is about to begin. I guess that would mean that we could start buying the UFO by the end of this year???!!!!

 

Insofar as I had my heart set on buying an RS700 next Spring, this is terrible news because it creates chaotic discord where there was previously peaceful harmony. But nonetheless:

 

What are the purchasing details? Do we buy straight from UFO headquarters and they ship it to us? Are we supposed to go through a local distributor? What kind of trailer do I need for it?

 

This is so awful - like having to choose between two gorgeous girlfriends back in high school.

Wow, this is awfully public.

 

For the sake of novelty, I'll answer these questions in reverse order.

 

1. You do not need a trailer. The hull weighs 31.5kg and is compact. So assuming your car has a roof, put it there. If it's a convertible, jam it in the back seat like Tony Stark in Iron Man II . I believe the boat fits in the back of some of the world's larger mini-vans if angled about 45 degrees. All other parts are collapsible and take up very little space. Roof racks are cheaper than trailers.

 

2. Factory direct in a crate is the current mode of shipment. Who carries it in their stores is as of yet undecided. I will provide no further details at present. However, as stated before, this provides no real impediment to getting one in the here and now. Manufacturing integration over at the Zim plant has been underway for months. Batch 1 will be built this fall, barring catastrophe.

 

3. Purchasing details are not 100% set in stone yet as not all of our costing is known. However, we know what the big pieces cost to produce and the boat will sell for significantly under eight thousand US dollars. You can get in line to put down a deposit now. PM me for details

 

I now submit myself to the storm of justified "buy an ad" comments. In my defence, he very clearly asked.

 

DRC

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Every time Zim is mentioned on SA some people assume that Zim is in China. Ought to get in front of that. The Zim facility is located ________.

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Every time Zim is mentioned on SA some people assume that Zim is in China. Ought to get in front of that. The Zim facility is located ________.

The Zim plant is in warren, Rhode island. My home town.

 

DRC

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I thought that Dave Clark was just tying to get investment money so that he could find a manufacturer and begin manufacturing the UFO. So, I was surprised to find out, in another thread, that the UFO is way further along. It seems that commercial production has already begun, or is about to begin. I guess that would mean that we could start buying the UFO by the end of this year???!!!!

 

Insofar as I had my heart set on buying an RS700 next Spring, this is terrible news because it creates chaotic discord where there was previously peaceful harmony. But nonetheless:

 

What are the purchasing details? Do we buy straight from UFO headquarters and they ship it to us? Are we supposed to go through a local distributor? What kind of trailer do I need for it?

 

This is so awful - like having to choose between two gorgeous girlfriends back in high school.

Wow, this is awfully public.

 

For the sake of novelty, I'll answer these questions in reverse order.

 

...

I now submit myself to the storm of justified "buy an ad" comments. In my defence, he very clearly asked.

 

DRC

 

 

 

Dave,

 

As far as I am concerned neither you (DRC) or SC need to buy ads here, you both add way to much to this website with your openness and your passion for sailing.

 

I think the best way to put it is like this.

 

Happy sailing,

 

Fish

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I now submit myself to the storm of justified "buy an ad" comments. In my defence, he very clearly asked.

DRC

 

 

 

:rolleyes:

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1. You do not need a trailer. The hull weighs 31.5kg and is compact. So assuming your car has a roof, put it there.

No thanks. That immediately puts you in the land of needing to find a friend every time you want to load or unload the boat. Dinghies need road trailers, the manufacturer needs to provide this option.

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1. You do not need a trailer. The hull weighs 31.5kg and is compact. So assuming your car has a roof, put it there.

No thanks. That immediately puts you in the land of needing to find a friend every time you want to load or unload the boat. Dinghies need road trailers, the manufacturer needs to provide this option.

 

 

The manufacturer needs to provide a road trailer as an option? Does this happen with any other Dinghy when you buy new?

 

I do agree that roof topping can be a pain in the arse if you're on your own though.

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1. You do not need a trailer. The hull weighs 31.5kg and is compact. So assuming your car has a roof, put it there.

No thanks. That immediately puts you in the land of needing to find a friend every time you want to load or unload the boat. Dinghies need road trailers, the manufacturer needs to provide this option.
The manufacturer needs to provide a road trailer as an option? Does this happen with any other Dinghy when you buy new?

Every other dinghy builder I can think of, other than Moths and Oppys. Standard combi trailer.

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The manufacturer needs to provide a road trailer as an option? Does this happen with any other Dinghy when you buy new?

Yes. In most cases the boat-builder buys a standard trailer/trolley and adds a cradle fitted for the hull.

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I mostly roof rack my boats. I can singlehandedly load a 70kg Int Canoe and am neither young nor fit. I must confess though I did deliberately pick the best possible vehicle and I don't think I'd care to try it with some sodding great SUV.

 

A problem with roof racking in the UK (probably Europe) is that these days most cars have a comically low weight limit for roof racking.


Yes. In most cases the boat-builder buys a standard trailer/trolley and adds a cradle fitted for the hull.

 

I strongly suspect it provides a nice extra bit of margin too.

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Well if fabricating one is your idea of time well spent, that's fine. Personally I'd rather do what I'm good at and pay others for doing what they do well.

 

I used to lift a Windglider onto the roof-rack, which I think would have been around 25Kg. Dropping it would have broken the board and wing mirrors. I am now older, wiser and alas weaker.

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Well if fabricating one is your idea of time well spent, that's fine. Personally I'd rather do what I'm good at and pay others for doing what they do well.

 

I used to lift a Windglider onto the roof-rack, which I think would have been around 25Kg. Dropping it would have broken the board and wing mirrors. I am now older, wiser and alas weaker.

To clarify. Zim Sailing already carries a veritable cornucopia of trailers. Take your pick. Customization isn't necessary or possible. It's a flat bottomed cat, so goes on a flat rack. It just seemed greedy wasteful and illogical to spend time concieving a custom trailer.

 

DRC

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Dave - Just one opinion and worth what you paid...

 

* but get a website up and running or use the Fulcrum one and get the story and details of the boat up and on it for people/customers to find.

 

Otherwise its all rumor and other folk's version of your story and boat that gets around. None of my business but I would make that a higher priority than even manufacturing right now. Word travels fast with social media these days. Get in front of it.

 

Wess

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For my dinghies, I just buy a "jet ski" trailer and that works fine. But catamarans are new to me. Seems like I would need the boards on the trailer to run perpendicular to the car instead of parallel. I'm just not used to it and was hoping for a trailer recommendation, not necessarily a trailer provided by the boat manufacturer.

 

I'm very excited about the UFO, and I'm happy to buy straight from the manufacturer w/ no middle man distributor and just have the thing shipped to my front door. But I do agree w/ Wess about a basic website for the product. It's kind of hard to say to your wife and friends: "I bought a boat!" and they say "what kind" and you don't have a product website to point to. The money is burning in my wallet to buy this awesome looking boat, but I think I'll hold off until there is a basic product website. I'm sure it will eventually be put together, and I'm patient.

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The boat isn't huge, not like a hobie 16 or F18 cat. If memory serves it's under 6' across, so you could probably take a jet-ski trailer and just toss it on top as is. Maybe you'd need to strap a 2x4 or two across the trailer to get it to be absolutely wide enough, but that's about it.

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Harbor Freight 4x8 ft utility trailer $249.95 in store assembled. Home Depot wooden 2x4 pressure treated $5 each cut to fit. Your wife's old throw rug. Come on guys, its not that difficult.

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Come on Dave! Can't you design a fucking boat that foils and loads itself?

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You simply do not need a trailer for a single UFO. We thought this through. If you want one, buy one of the many compatible tiny trailers available on the free market. However, I won't facilitate the perception that a lightweight short foiler in any way requires a trailer. However, I already have a concept for a reeeally slick 3 boat trailer with inset parts box... Free with every bulk order of 3 or more boats??

 

DRC

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It just hovers there. You pull it behind the car with a light piece of string tied to the mast step.

We were considering powerful magnets as the coupling device because it was much cooler than the bit of string, but a passing semi truck ripped the boat out of our magnetic field and the boat floated into an underpass where it attached itself to the steel I beams.

 

Turned into a hell of a mess, we had to stop traffic in both directions while Dave tried to lasso the rudder gantry with a bit of Rooster Braid ( which sucks as a lariat.) Traffic ended up backed up for a few miles and the cops weren't amused. Particularly when we mentioned Alien Technology. They called Homeland Security, and because it was a first reporting of a new kind of threat, we had to go down to the station and answer questions for 48 hours while they played Donny and Marie songs at us.

 

Didn't think something as simple as move a boat would get so complex. Maybe if we had just tied it down to something with wheels like thousands have done in the past....

 

SHC

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well, that was an unexpectedly hilarious post in an otherwise very technical thread.

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well, that was an unexpectedly hilarious post in an otherwise very technical thread.

 

Freakin brill Sir Clark, freakin brill!

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<rant>

Some of this thread seems to me to be a summary of what is wrong with sailing today. The first new boat I bought (or to be precise, my parents and I bought) was before the internet and we could only communicate with the builder by phone or letter. We drove 3 hours to discuss the final spec and hand over the deposit. We had to organise our own trailer when it was time to collect. The nearest "support" was either the builder or, for spares, the local chandlery. We had to source all sorts of things ourselves, such as covers, sails etc.

 

With this boat, anybody who cannot work out for themselves how to move it on the road really is pretty pathetic. If you cannot work out how to put a 30kg hull on a roof rack by yourself, that is also pathetic.

 

Now people expect to be spoon fed everything. Instant gratification, off the shelf, just add water. It's like cooking microwave dishes, rather than making your own from ingredients. Even now, when I get a boat, I will spend hours getting the ropes right, replacing fittings with ones that I like and trust so that even with strict one designs, the boat is still "mine". My last 49er took about 3 days to get spot on. I know I am a lot more engaged with a boat that I have invested my time and effort to get right. Is there a correlation between the numbers sailing and the ease of getting a new boat? One of the biggest booms in the UK was when the Mirror gave people the opportunity to build their own boats. Even now, some if the bigger classes are ones that need a bit more than "just add water".

 

I understand the attraction of "just add water", but I totally understand why somebody like Steve Clark resorts to (brilliant) sarcastic humour when people get so hung up on stupid detail. You want to buy one of these? Pick up the phone to Dave and don't put it down until he has given you a build slot and told you where to pay the money. Be prepared to buy a roof rack or a box trailer (or similar) or beg, steal or hire a trailer. In other words, just f#@king do it and stop making excuses.

</rant>

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With this boat, anybody who cannot work out for themselves how to move it on the road really is pretty pathetic. If you cannot work out how to put a 30kg hull on a roof rack by yourself, that is also pathetic.

Agreed. Well over 1000 Wetas sold w/o trailers. Most owners have figured it out on their own pretty easily. I bought a 5' x 8' trlr from Northern Tools for less than $500 that worked great. In fact, at regattas, checking out each others trailers and how they have been personally customized is part of the fun and pretty interesting.

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...what is wrong with sailing today. ... before the internet and we could only communicate with the builder by phone or letter. We drove 3 hours...

 

 

We had to hike up Mt Ararat in the rain and it came to pass that every animal on Earth had taken a shit in the boat.

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With this boat, anybody who cannot work out for themselves how to move it on the road really is pretty pathetic. If you cannot work out how to put a 30kg hull on a roof rack by yourself, that is also pathetic.

 

Thanks for taking the time out from your valuable non-stop feud with Doug Lord to describe me as pathetic. I'm pleased your sock-puppet is working out so well for you but some weeks ago I did work out who you are.

 

Now, since I'm so pathetic and I can't work it out for myself, enlighten me, even though i am not worthy. What's your recommended technique for getting 32kg of fragile boat onto a car roof single-handed? Strangely in a few decades I'm yet to see someone do it. Everyone finds a friend. All pathetic too, apparently.

 

I can pass on, because I've asked, that around 50% of Aero owners buy the road trailer. The UFO isn't competing for the the attention of the Moth-fiddlers of the world, it's competing against the convenience sailing that the likes of RS provides. So there's demonstrable evidence of a whole boat-buying demography of patheticness. Oh, the humanity,

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recommended technique for getting 32kg of fragile boat onto a car roof single-handed? ,

I take two old tyres. Boat goes off trolley onto tyres. Load trolley on roof bow forward and secure. Align boat so stern behind car, bow alongside car. Tyre at back overlapping stern.

Lift bow onto trolley cradle, stern resting on tyre.

Lift stern, slide boat forward.

 

Of course if theres any kind of audience i recruit them to help, but provided car roof reasonably low i don't find it an issue. Probably needs to be a hatchback or estate and definitely wouldnt try with a SUV.

 

that around 50% of Aero owners buy the road trailer.

Mmm, but in the UK most boats live in the dinghy park with trolley pulled up onto combi trailer base. So there isn't really a downside to having a trailer other than money. The US seems to be different.

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Thanks. I'm reasonably sure that wouldn't work with my car. Roof is too high. I'm also not sure how happy I'd be car-topping with the boat right-way up, with the hull generating lift trying to pull the roof rack off the car. Guess that's less of a worry with an IC's hull shape.

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Europe shaped int moth, not just IC

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Well OK. I wouldn't be happy car-topping a Europe right-way up. You are liable to kill the driver behind if the boat departs the car top. Maybe I'm influenced by having been a passenger in a car where a poorly secured surf-board ripped off the roof-rack once the car reached open-road speed. No it wasn't me who tied it down. The car behind managed to dodge it but didn't see the funny side, to put it mildly.

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A friggin Optimist weighs 35kg. Are you telling me they are too hard to put on a set of roof racks?!!

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No I'm not OK by myself with lifting 35kg of fragile & expensive epoxy and carbon above my head and putting it onto roof racks. I'm a sailor not a weight-lifter & I know from experience that my limit to do that under good control is around 25kg. If you can, and know for certain you aren't going to drop it or scratch it or break a wing mirror, then good for you.

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No I'm not OK by myself with lifting 35kg of fragile & expensive epoxy and carbon above my head and putting it onto roof racks. I'm a sailor not a weight-lifter & I know from experience that my limit to do that under good control is around 25kg. If you can, and know for certain you aren't going to drop it or scratch it or break a wing mirror, then good for you.

Vinylester, soric and glass with carbon reinforcement in the beams for stiffness, actually. Just to clear that up. If it was made out of carbon epoxy and nomex it would cost at least twice as much and, you're right, be stiffer but less durable. I administer beatings to my UFO that I wouldn't dare attempt on a carbon boat. I'll post a video of my cartopping method some time soon. It can be done on a reasonably sized car without ever bearing the full weight of the hull.

 

On another point, I'd like to clarify that I don't think that owning a trailer for a small boat makes you a lesser being. I do think it's a predominantly unneccessary expense up front, in storage of said trailer and in motorpool maintenance. I would once again like to direct anybody who desires a trailer to the saturated market of compatible small boat trailers. Trailex is a good brand, for starters.

 

On another sillier note, the UFO on top of a car might actually enhance your cars performance, if you aim it stern first. The deck has a positive angle of attack to it, so turning it backwards will give you a spoiler, increasing your grip through turns.

 

DRC

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Well OK. I wouldn't be happy car-topping a Europe right-way up.

We all make our own choices. And sure, securing any load, especially roof loads is no trivial responsibility. But the angle of incidence on my Moth on the roof and on trailer is distinctly bow down. If it does anything I suspect it pushes down.

 

post-60-0-19109200-1474811362_thumb.jpg

 

======================================================================

 

I'm kinda neutral on this. I understand the logic, and that they don't want salesmen ramping up the price they've worked so hard to keep down by adding extra after extra that are of arguable value and utility. But the other side of it, thinking about the UK scene which is all I really know, is that only a minority of sailors would already own a car/trailer or car roofrack combination that would readily take the boat, and even if all it takes is to put a couple of bits of 2*2 across a road base and pad them, that would still be too much for a good few people. I kinda wonder whether it would be worth having an optional extra of a pair of padded bars of the appropriate width with a generous selection of alternate mounting points just to make it easier for the less handy.

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Amazing that "how to transport it" is even a discussion.

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Dave & Steve,

 

I definitely understand your lack of interest in producing a trailer that seems completely unnecessary and redundant. I don't dispute your assertion that car topping is completely viable and likely the best and least expensive option. However, it seems that there is a strong interest amongst a significant group of purchasers in a trailering option. Just to dispel any uncertainty and associated nervousness in the buyer, could you show how the boat could easily be trailered with one of those widely available models? A few folks are obviously unsure of exactly which trailer might work and how with this boat. We could then know that if we buy that trailer and a few extra fittings it will work well. There would be no extra mucking around and ending up with a trailer that might not work as well for some unknown reason. The most intrepid will likely still roll their own option, but for people less inclined to tinker and just go sailing there will be a clear path.

 

Hoping you guys are starting solid 1 design class here.

 

Thx!

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I used to cartop a Force Five (14' AMF version of the Laser) on my VW Bus. Could load and unload it on my own. Wish I had a photo. Wish I still had the boat!

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Dave & Steve,

 

I definitely understand your lack of interest in producing a trailer that seems completely unnecessary and redundant. I don't dispute your assertion that car topping is completely viable and likely the best and least expensive option. However, it seems that there is a strong interest amongst a significant group of purchasers in a trailering option. Just to dispel any uncertainty and associated nervousness in the buyer, could you show how the boat could easily be trailered with one of those widely available models? A few folks are obviously unsure of exactly which trailer might work and how with this boat. We could then know that if we buy that trailer and a few extra fittings it will work well. There would be no extra mucking around and ending up with a trailer that might not work as well for some unknown reason. The most intrepid will likely still roll their own option, but for people less inclined to tinker and just go sailing there will be a clear path.

 

Hoping you guys are starting solid 1 design class here.

 

Thx!

 

Exactly. Look, if the hull weighs 31.5 kg, then I can literally do dumb-bell curls with it. Weight isn't the issue. Corpus Christi blows 20-25 mph REGULARLY. And no, I don't want to, by myself, try to get the hull up on top of my wife's tall SUV while worrying about the wind changing direction and blowing the hull off the SUV and into the window of the car parked next to me. That lightweight hull cuts both ways, making it much more easy to become an expensive liability in a windy parking lot full of cars (and people and children and babies) while perched atop a tall SUV. Loading the boat onto a trailer just a couple feet off the ground greatly reduces the risk of the hull flying off the roof in windy conditions and breaking a window or killing a kid.

 

Secondly, I rarely use my wife's SUV for sailing. I've got an old beat-up Toyota Tacoma pickup truck (the small 4-cylinder single cab version) that I use for most of my sailing. There is no "roof rack" option, and the bed is too narrow for the boat. So, yeah, I'm a big strong dude who will have no problem power-lifting the boat over my head multiple times in a row in zero-wind conditions, but for a variety of legitimate reasons, I want to trailer the boat.

 

Thirdly, I work 60 hours a week. On the weekends I want to sail. I do not want to fix my boat. I do not want to tinker w/ trailers. For some people, that stuff is fun, but others don't like it. I love sailing, but I derive no joy whatsoever from being a self-sufficient man who can fix things, build things, or tinker up his own physical contraptions to solve things. Every hour I spend dinking around with that crap is an hour I could spend (a) sailing or (B) having quality time w/ my family (none of whom like sailing at all).

 

Fourthly, I'm not saying that I want a customized trailer from the manufacturer, just a recommendation (preferably an internet link) for a trailer that would work. I don't want to guess, pick the wrong trailer, and then find that I've got to go to Home Depot to buy some 2x4 for $50 (not a problem) and spend 6 hours trying to figure out how to securely attach the boards to the trailer and make the whole thing work (that IS an annoying problem for me).

 

I get that a lot of sailors have disdain for a chap like me that just wants to sail and not do all the ancillary crap. That's fine. But if there's anything I've learned in this world, it's that I am not a unique snowflake. I suspect that an appreciable amount of money is left on the table by not going the extra 2 inches to accommodate the admittedly lazy attitude of people like myself.

 

And since asking for a link to a suitable trailer is so controversial, I won't even ask about about a hand-dolly (launching at McGee Beach means traversing a couple hundred yards of sand by foot).

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Surely everyone anywhere has a 6x4 trailer!! Here in Oz they are ubiquitous.

 

The Paper Tiger guys have it down to an art - I've seen a very neat dolly that is sized to exactly fit into the 6x4.

 

You can get take apart kits here and I assume they come here from the US or Sith Afriky.

 

Soo many options.

 

Stick to designing and building thing that sail Clarkies.

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Ok. So in the event that for some reason you need a trailer, here's my short-list of recommendations, ranked from Gucci to Stingey. There are many more options out there; this merely establishes a range.

1. http://www.rackwarehouse.com/yakima-8008106-rackandroll-66-kayak-sport-trailer.html?gclid=CKXIwLbkq88CFcNkhgodAEkG4w

 

Yakima Rack and Roll. The rolls royce phantom of trailers. With racks exactly 1 inch thinner than the max beam, your straps will come down dead flush to the hull and the whole thing will look like fine art. If you'd rather work some sort of less sexy system with more span, they have a version of the Rack and Roll that's a foot wider still.

Pros: Slick. No game planning required at all. Cons: cost of a freakin brand new pico if you don't get the handy discount found on this page.

 

 

2. Dynamic dolly rack on trailer bed. http://www.zimsailing.com/racks-and-trailers.html. Can be found at nearly any dinghy distributor that I'm aware of, or they'll put it together for you. Basic Dynamic rack U-bolted to an acceptable wheel base. I've been using these systems my whole life and the only thing to cause a failure was getting rear ended by a guy going 30mph faster than us (likely texting). In that case I don't think the rack was to blame. I swear by these things and, in the case of the UFO, where getting the payload to actually be heavy enough will be an issue, this may be a solid call.

Pros: Almost certainly able to bring more toys than just your UFO. Can definitely strap a cat box for all your gear to the top rack. Cons: almost certainly more trailer than you need to tow one little boat.

 

3. https://www.trailex.com/SUT-250-S.cfm technically designed for V-bottomed boats, this one is fitted with nice large padded bunks which will do a glorious job of carrying the UFO upside down or, in the event that the bunks can be set high enough (don't know. Haven't acquired one to find out) right side up with the bunks on the underside of the deck. The upside down stunt is the trick for making the boat fit on practically everything. With a convex solid tramp, the boats hulls will clear most wheel covers that it encounters and thus overcome the beam constraint on most trailers rather easily. In such a case, running the straps fore and aft across the boat should handle everything.

 

Pros: About half as expensive as the first two options and very sturdy ( We have a trailex opti trailer. Stupidly overengineered. I love it). Cons: Not 100% as plug and play as the first two, though it is light.

4. http://www.harborfreight.com/870-lb-capacity-40-in-x-49-in-utility-trailer-62646.html

$199!!! You can't even buy dollies for that money! Sorry. Getting carried away. The name is Harbor Freight Haulmaster. It's the IKEA trailer. It comes in a pair of boxes in the mail and you bolt the whole thing together with rudimentary tools. Now that's a lot more than a lot of people want to do, but $199!! Wow!
So, okay here's the other bit. Once you're down to this level of savings you're also intercepting the secondhand market pretty aggressively and craigslist is a great place to snoop around. And here's the kicker: the boat is 67 inches wide at max beam so while the Haulmaster brings you the bulk of the way there, you will need to go to a hardware store and buy some 2X4s to bolt to it, crosswise, or a 4X8 sheet of plywood to nail on, thus forming a bed and choosing the "deck-down" orientation.

Pros: $199!!! Cons: Much assembly required. Dealbreaker for some.

Again, I don't have a personal top pick for any of these because I use a pair of 2X4s tied to the roof. So I have no experience. However, I have loaded many many many boats and know the dimensions of this one quite intimately.

On another note, yes a 'beach wheels' style dolly does come with the boat. We're stingy yankees, not sadists. A UFO absolutely need a dolly, unless you want to haul it up the sand like a hobie, which will work.

DRC

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Surely everyone anywhere has a 6x4 trailer!.

Maybe one sailor in 50 in the UK at a guess, discounting Mothies.

 

This is where different sailing cultures come in. The typical travelling Brit boat lives on a trolley/trailer combination, which stays at the sailing club, other than on the way to events. In britspeak dolly is a non sailing partner who can be persuaded to pull trolley down to tbe waters edge BTW. So a flatbed trailer which the trolley doesn't roll onto with boat rigged on would be a confounded nuisance that would have to be stored somewhere, and a separate trolley equally a damn nuisance while travelling.

 

And for some reason a true flatbed or bare frame is a very rare bird in the UK, probably need to be a special order. They all seem to have non removable sides and ends.

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Dave, thanks for pointing out some examples. Question for you on the thought train of trailers. For the beachcat style dolly, I presume there's appropriately shaped rests for each hull. How costly would it be for the factory to produce a similar set that fit towards the bow and towards the stern. Something that could be bolted to a generic frame for the boat to sit on if somebody were so inclined?

 

Although, I think the fact that it's flat-bottomed and can be strapped straight to racks (either on a car or on a trailer) should make loading the boat fairly easy and painless. You've mentioned that the mast and bits break down to smaller pieces to fill the void between the hulls. Would the provided dolly do the same? Or do we have to find somewhere to put the big beach wheels?

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With this boat, anybody who cannot work out for themselves how to move it on the road really is pretty pathetic. If you cannot work out how to put a 30kg hull on a roof rack by yourself, that is also pathetic.

 

Thanks for taking the time out from your valuable non-stop feud with Doug Lord to describe me as pathetic. I'm pleased your sock-puppet is working out so well for you but some weeks ago I did work out who you are.

 

Now, since I'm so pathetic and I can't work it out for myself, enlighten me, even though i am not worthy. What's your recommended technique for getting 32kg of fragile boat onto a car roof single-handed? Strangely in a few decades I'm yet to see someone do it. Everyone finds a friend. All pathetic too, apparently.

 

I can pass on, because I've asked, that around 50% of Aero owners buy the road trailer. The UFO isn't competing for the the attention of the Moth-fiddlers of the world, it's competing against the convenience sailing that the likes of RS provides. So there's demonstrable evidence of a whole boat-buying demography of patheticness. Oh, the humanity,

 

I am sorry you were offended, because i certainly wasn't attacking you. The point I was trying to make is that it seemed to me to be pretty pathetic that people were using the transport problem as a potential barrier to buying a boat like this. I also think you slightly missed another point I was trying to make, which suggests I didn't make it well enough. If you want the boat enough and you cannot get a trailer, surely you can work out a way of getting on and off a roof rack so you can get it home. I refuse to believe that you cannot do one or another. Maybe my experiences of travelling the country with Laser on the roof made me think more of myself and of course I accepted a hand from friends at my destination, but I used to have to get it on and off at home myself. Surprising what you can do with a few old blocks and some rope. As an aside, I always found it easier to get a boat on the roof from behind, rather than the side.

 

I am not sure about your argument that 50% of Aero sailors buy the road trailers. That suggests that 50% don't and find another way of getting their boat home. I know I don't buy a trailer from the boat builder. Depending on class, I prefer Sovereign, who most builders don't deal with.

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Would doubt that that many take their boat home at all. If they're not buying a road trailer, then it's likely that they're buying the boat to keep at the club on a dolly and have no plans to travel.

 

Also, AIUI new trailers now need the number plate/light board to be fixed to the trailer rather than the boat, which is another headache for DIY solutions rather than going with an off the peg road frame and trolley.

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It would appear to be a UK issue. I have trailered and cartopped different boats all over North America. Trailers need to be licensed here, but that is no big deal here. Simple enough to buy a trailer, build a wooden box and bolt it on such that the box is clear of the wheels and away you go - you have both a box for storage and for use as a platform for the boat. And I do not recall ever having an instance when I was cartopping that there wasn't someone around to lend a hand. So if trailers are just too difficult and you can't get someone to help load and unload off your cartop, I guess you're fucked. But - you would be fucked with most any boat I suppose.

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I used to car top my Laser. Nobody could possibly explain to me any logical reason for a trailer.

40 years later..... I get the trailer thing.

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Would doubt that that many take their boat home at all. If they're not buying a road trailer, then it's likely that they're buying the boat to keep at the club on a dolly and have no plans to travel.

 

Also, AIUI new trailers now need the number plate/light board to be fixed to the trailer rather than the boat, which is another headache for DIY solutions rather than going with an off the peg road frame and trolley.

 

Right in both cases I think. Apart from those who do Open events, IME UK boats that don't need an annual trip to the garage for revarnishing rarely or never leave the home club. And if they do, "hey mate, can I borrow your road base?"

 

The trailer lights thing is mind bogglingly annoying. I propose to refurbish old trailers indefinitely!

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Mmm, but in the UK most boats live in the dinghy park with trolley pulled up onto combi trailer base. So there isn't really a downside to having a trailer other than money. The US seems to be different.

 

 

 

The difference is that the UK has another dinghy park for every 1000 meters of coastline. The other difference is that poms are pussies. :o

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Mmm, but in the UK most boats live in the dinghy park with trolley pulled up onto combi trailer base. So there isn't really a downside to having a trailer other than money. The US seems to be different.

 

 

 

The difference is that the UK has another dinghy park for every 1000 meters of coastline.

 

 

 

A dinghy park? That sounds nice. Unfortunately. here in the US the coastlines are getting over crowded with multi-family condos, apartment buildings that are monstrosities, multimillion dollar homes leaving little access. To add to that, some new residents believe the beaches belong to them (they are still public) and are trying to make it impossible for other people to enjoy them.

 

I think that may have added to the decline of Beachcat sailing. Who wants to have an argument with some selfish dumb guy, everytime you go sailing.

 

Cheers,

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I have car topped my Tornado, A-Cat and Laser without any issue. I can't see how this boat would be an issue.

 

I have somewhere on my pc a good video on the tecnique to put Mach2 on the roof alone. It's amazing how easy it gets when you learn the tecnique :). I's a pity that bowsprits make it all a bit more complicated :D for us. And I've done thousands of km with assembled moths on the roof, so unless it's ridicously windy, cartopping is pretty safe for all light boats; and you can also go much faster than with a trailer.

 

Still I see the point why somebody likes the trailer more. Easier to put the boat on top and you don't have to fill the car with sail, masts, foils, etc. You just plug the trailer and go (very slowly) to your destination.

 

Michele

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Ok. So in the event that for some reason you need a trailer, here's my short-list of recommendations, ranked from Gucci to Stingey. There are many more options out there; this merely establishes a range.

 

1. http://www.rackwarehouse.com/yakima-8008106-rackandroll-66-kayak-sport-trailer.html?gclid=CKXIwLbkq88CFcNkhgodAEkG4w

 

Yakima Rack and Roll. The rolls royce phantom of trailers. With racks exactly 1 inch thinner than the max beam, your straps will come down dead flush to the hull and the whole thing will look like fine art. If you'd rather work some sort of less sexy system with more span, they have a version of the Rack and Roll that's a foot wider still.

 

Pros: Slick. No game planning required at all. Cons: cost of a freakin brand new pico if you don't get the handy discount found on this page.

 

 

2. Dynamic dolly rack on trailer bed. http://www.zimsailing.com/racks-and-trailers.html. Can be found at nearly any dinghy distributor that I'm aware of, or they'll put it together for you. Basic Dynamic rack U-bolted to an acceptable wheel base. I've been using these systems my whole life and the only thing to cause a failure was getting rear ended by a guy going 30mph faster than us (likely texting). In that case I don't think the rack was to blame. I swear by these things and, in the case of the UFO, where getting the payload to actually be heavy enough will be an issue, this may be a solid call.

 

Pros: Almost certainly able to bring more toys than just your UFO. Can definitely strap a cat box for all your gear to the top rack. Cons: almost certainly more trailer than you need to tow one little boat.

 

3. https://www.trailex.com/SUT-250-S.cfm technically designed for V-bottomed boats, this one is fitted with nice large padded bunks which will do a glorious job of carrying the UFO upside down or, in the event that the bunks can be set high enough (don't know. Haven't acquired one to find out) right side up with the bunks on the underside of the deck. The upside down stunt is the trick for making the boat fit on practically everything. With a convex solid tramp, the boats hulls will clear most wheel covers that it encounters and thus overcome the beam constraint on most trailers rather easily. In such a case, running the straps fore and aft across the boat should handle everything.

 

Pros: About half as expensive as the first two options and very sturdy ( We have a trailex opti trailer. Stupidly overengineered. I love it). Cons: Not 100% as plug and play as the first two, though it is light.

4. http://www.harborfreight.com/870-lb-capacity-40-in-x-49-in-utility-trailer-62646.html

 

$199!!! You can't even buy dollies for that money! Sorry. Getting carried away. The name is Harbor Freight Haulmaster. It's the IKEA trailer. It comes in a pair of boxes in the mail and you bolt the whole thing together with rudimentary tools. Now that's a lot more than a lot of people want to do, but $199!! Wow!

So, okay here's the other bit. Once you're down to this level of savings you're also intercepting the secondhand market pretty aggressively and craigslist is a great place to snoop around. And here's the kicker: the boat is 67 inches wide at max beam so while the Haulmaster brings you the bulk of the way there, you will need to go to a hardware store and buy some 2X4s to bolt to it, crosswise, or a 4X8 sheet of plywood to nail on, thus forming a bed and choosing the "deck-down" orientation.

 

Pros: $199!!! Cons: Much assembly required. Dealbreaker for some.

 

Again, I don't have a personal top pick for any of these because I use a pair of 2X4s tied to the roof. So I have no experience. However, I have loaded many many many boats and know the dimensions of this one quite intimately.

 

On another note, yes a 'beach wheels' style dolly does come with the boat. We're stingy yankees, not sadists. A UFO absolutely need a dolly, unless you want to haul it up the sand like a hobie, which will work.

 

DRC

 

Thanks man. That's very helpful. And if I do buy the boat, I have to admit that the $199 option is so darn cheap I might actually have to roll up my sleeves and do some dreaded "building stuff."

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No I'm not OK by myself with lifting 35kg of fragile & expensive epoxy and carbon above my head and putting it onto roof racks. I'm a sailor not a weight-lifter & I know from experience that my limit to do that under good control is around 25kg. If you can, and know for certain you aren't going to drop it or scratch it or break a wing mirror, then good for you.

 

 

Go to the fucking gym once in a while. You won't melt!

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Roof is much easier no registration, dealing with brake lights, flats, etc.

However if you can race a sailboat it should not be that difficult to put together a $199 trailer.

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Ok. So in the event that for some reason you need a trailer, here's my short-list of recommendations, ranked from Gucci to Stingey. There are many more options out there; this merely establishes a range.

1. http://www.rackwarehouse.com/yakima-8008106-rackandroll-66-kayak-sport-trailer.html?gclid=CKXIwLbkq88CFcNkhgodAEkG4w

 

Yakima Rack and Roll. The rolls royce phantom of trailers. With racks exactly 1 inch thinner than the max beam, your straps will come down dead flush to the hull and the whole thing will look like fine art. If you'd rather work some sort of less sexy system with more span, they have a version of the Rack and Roll that's a foot wider still.

Pros: Slick. No game planning required at all. Cons: cost of a freakin brand new pico if you don't get the handy discount found on this page.

 

 

2. Dynamic dolly rack on trailer bed. http://www.zimsailing.com/racks-and-trailers.html. Can be found at nearly any dinghy distributor that I'm aware of, or they'll put it together for you. Basic Dynamic rack U-bolted to an acceptable wheel base. I've been using these systems my whole life and the only thing to cause a failure was getting rear ended by a guy going 30mph faster than us (likely texting). In that case I don't think the rack was to blame. I swear by these things and, in the case of the UFO, where getting the payload to actually be heavy enough will be an issue, this may be a solid call.

Pros: Almost certainly able to bring more toys than just your UFO. Can definitely strap a cat box for all your gear to the top rack. Cons: almost certainly more trailer than you need to tow one little boat.

 

3. https://www.trailex.com/SUT-250-S.cfm technically designed for V-bottomed boats, this one is fitted with nice large padded bunks which will do a glorious job of carrying the UFO upside down or, in the event that the bunks can be set high enough (don't know. Haven't acquired one to find out) right side up with the bunks on the underside of the deck. The upside down stunt is the trick for making the boat fit on practically everything. With a convex solid tramp, the boats hulls will clear most wheel covers that it encounters and thus overcome the beam constraint on most trailers rather easily. In such a case, running the straps fore and aft across the boat should handle everything.

 

Pros: About half as expensive as the first two options and very sturdy ( We have a trailex opti trailer. Stupidly overengineered. I love it). Cons: Not 100% as plug and play as the first two, though it is light.

4. http://www.harborfreight.com/870-lb-capacity-40-in-x-49-in-utility-trailer-62646.html

$199!!! You can't even buy dollies for that money! Sorry. Getting carried away. The name is Harbor Freight Haulmaster. It's the IKEA trailer. It comes in a pair of boxes in the mail and you bolt the whole thing together with rudimentary tools. Now that's a lot more than a lot of people want to do, but $199!! Wow!

So, okay here's the other bit. Once you're down to this level of savings you're also intercepting the secondhand market pretty aggressively and craigslist is a great place to snoop around. And here's the kicker: the boat is 67 inches wide at max beam so while the Haulmaster brings you the bulk of the way there, you will need to go to a hardware store and buy some 2X4s to bolt to it, crosswise, or a 4X8 sheet of plywood to nail on, thus forming a bed and choosing the "deck-down" orientation.

Pros: $199!!! Cons: Much assembly required. Dealbreaker for some.

Again, I don't have a personal top pick for any of these because I use a pair of 2X4s tied to the roof. So I have no experience. However, I have loaded many many many boats and know the dimensions of this one quite intimately.

On another note, yes a 'beach wheels' style dolly does come with the boat. We're stingy yankees, not sadists. A UFO absolutely need a dolly, unless you want to haul it up the sand like a hobie, which will work.

DRC

 

Thanks man. That's very helpful. And if I do buy the boat, I have to admit that the $199 option is so darn cheap I might actually have to roll up my sleeves and do some dreaded "building stuff."

I have certainly enjoyed your sailing videos DTA. I look forward to the videos of your "building stuff"!

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Everyone here is demonstrating good use of computer, internet and forums - to find trailer 1) apply knowledge towards local 2nd hand market websites, 2) buy trailer

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I can't tell from the slide deck. With the boat work well tied to a ball and floating? I want to keep it in the water. Up on the beach when we aren't home.

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great boat !

 

Clarks, that drilled alloy piece for the wand on the protos, it has to go ( says 1980s band-aid fix) what will the production boat have instead? Aesthetics ..... the rig is about 4 decades 'newer looking' than that strut

 

surely a composite tube is cheaper

 

http://i1.wp.com/segelreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/14249814_1746224778959898_545447663862965820_o.jpg

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Steve Clark I absolutely applaud you. That was just brilliant, Thanks for the laugh.

Well done on the design, I hope it goes gang busters.

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I can't tell from the slide deck. With the boat work well tied to a ball and floating? I want to keep it in the water. Up on the beach when we aren't home.

I have actually done this. Left it at the mooring with foils down and sail up while I went in from a test sail for lunch (swam to the dock). Suprisingly docile. I wouldn't recommend it as the ideal use, but I know it can be done.

 

DRC

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<rant>

Some of this thread seems to me to be a summary of what is wrong with sailing today. The first new boat I bought (or to be precise, my parents and I bought) was before the internet and we could only communicate with the builder by phone or letter. We drove 3 hours to discuss the final spec and hand over the deposit. We had to organise our own trailer when it was time to collect. The nearest "support" was either the builder or, for spares, the local chandlery. We had to source all sorts of things ourselves, such as covers, sails etc.

 

With this boat, anybody who cannot work out for themselves how to move it on the road really is pretty pathetic. If you cannot work out how to put a 30kg hull on a roof rack by yourself, that is also pathetic.

 

Now people expect to be spoon fed everything. Instant gratification, off the shelf, just add water. It's like cooking microwave dishes, rather than making your own from ingredients. Even now, when I get a boat, I will spend hours getting the ropes right, replacing fittings with ones that I like and trust so that even with strict one designs, the boat is still "mine". My last 49er took about 3 days to get spot on. I know I am a lot more engaged with a boat that I have invested my time and effort to get right. Is there a correlation between the numbers sailing and the ease of getting a new boat? One of the biggest booms in the UK was when the Mirror gave people the opportunity to build their own boats. Even now, some if the bigger classes are ones that need a bit more than "just add water".

 

I understand the attraction of "just add water", but I totally understand why somebody like Steve Clark resorts to (brilliant) sarcastic humour when people get so hung up on stupid detail. You want to buy one of these? Pick up the phone to Dave and don't put it down until he has given you a build slot and told you where to pay the money. Be prepared to buy a roof rack or a box trailer (or similar) or beg, steal or hire a trailer. In other words, just f#@king do it and stop making excuses.

</rant>

Spot on!

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Holy trailer anarchy batman! What's next, arguments over appropriate tow vehicles?

 

 

No aliens were harmed in the posting of this message, past boat transport, or sailing/foiling attempts.

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Who would go to sea with someone who can't work out how to get the boat, to the sea?

 

Leaving the trailer off is surely a master stroke in saving the lives of stupid people

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Ok. So in the event that for some reason you need a trailer, here's my short-list of recommendations, ranked from Gucci to Stingey. There are many more options out there; this merely establishes a range.

 

1. http://www.rackwarehouse.com/yakima-8008106-rackandroll-66-kayak-sport-trailer.html?gclid=CKXIwLbkq88CFcNkhgodAEkG4w

 

Yakima Rack and Roll. The rolls royce phantom of trailers. With racks exactly 1 inch thinner than the max beam, your straps will come down dead flush to the hull and the whole thing will look like fine art. If you'd rather work some sort of less sexy system with more span, they have a version of the Rack and Roll that's a foot wider still.

 

Pros: Slick. No game planning required at all. Cons: cost of a freakin brand new pico if you don't get the handy discount found on this page.

 

 

2. Dynamic dolly rack on trailer bed. http://www.zimsailing.com/racks-and-trailers.html. Can be found at nearly any dinghy distributor that I'm aware of, or they'll put it together for you. Basic Dynamic rack U-bolted to an acceptable wheel base. I've been using these systems my whole life and the only thing to cause a failure was getting rear ended by a guy going 30mph faster than us (likely texting). In that case I don't think the rack was to blame. I swear by these things and, in the case of the UFO, where getting the payload to actually be heavy enough will be an issue, this may be a solid call.

 

Pros: Almost certainly able to bring more toys than just your UFO. Can definitely strap a cat box for all your gear to the top rack. Cons: almost certainly more trailer than you need to tow one little boat.

 

3. https://www.trailex.com/SUT-250-S.cfm technically designed for V-bottomed boats, this one is fitted with nice large padded bunks which will do a glorious job of carrying the UFO upside down or, in the event that the bunks can be set high enough (don't know. Haven't acquired one to find out) right side up with the bunks on the underside of the deck. The upside down stunt is the trick for making the boat fit on practically everything. With a convex solid tramp, the boats hulls will clear most wheel covers that it encounters and thus overcome the beam constraint on most trailers rather easily. In such a case, running the straps fore and aft across the boat should handle everything.

 

Pros: About half as expensive as the first two options and very sturdy ( We have a trailex opti trailer. Stupidly overengineered. I love it). Cons: Not 100% as plug and play as the first two, though it is light.

4. http://www.harborfreight.com/870-lb-capacity-40-in-x-49-in-utility-trailer-62646.html

 

$199!!! You can't even buy dollies for that money! Sorry. Getting carried away. The name is Harbor Freight Haulmaster. It's the IKEA trailer. It comes in a pair of boxes in the mail and you bolt the whole thing together with rudimentary tools. Now that's a lot more than a lot of people want to do, but $199!! Wow!

So, okay here's the other bit. Once you're down to this level of savings you're also intercepting the secondhand market pretty aggressively and craigslist is a great place to snoop around. And here's the kicker: the boat is 67 inches wide at max beam so while the Haulmaster brings you the bulk of the way there, you will need to go to a hardware store and buy some 2X4s to bolt to it, crosswise, or a 4X8 sheet of plywood to nail on, thus forming a bed and choosing the "deck-down" orientation.

 

Pros: $199!!! Cons: Much assembly required. Dealbreaker for some.

 

Again, I don't have a personal top pick for any of these because I use a pair of 2X4s tied to the roof. So I have no experience. However, I have loaded many many many boats and know the dimensions of this one quite intimately.

 

On another note, yes a 'beach wheels' style dolly does come with the boat. We're stingy yankees, not sadists. A UFO absolutely need a dolly, unless you want to haul it up the sand like a hobie, which will work.

 

DRC

 

Thanks man. That's very helpful. And if I do buy the boat, I have to admit that the $199 option is so darn cheap I might actually have to roll up my sleeves and do some dreaded "building stuff."

 

 

 

I am the worst person in the world at "building stuff" but even I managed to build that trailer and nothing has dropped off it yet so I must have got it more or less right.

 

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post-39147-0-67121000-1475274173_thumb.jpgDRC, we saw one of those yaks, they are da shiz, if I was made of money, would be the only way to go.

Course when you bring a boat from UK, it already comes with the correct dolly, etc, only thing I had to change was ball mount from metric to 1-7/8".

 

Now back on topic....

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DTA if you have a tacoma, then you could mount some racks on the bed itself or even have a quick bolt on board that would cover the top of the bed and you could just tie the hull to this so it would essentially sit on top of the sides of the bed and all the stuff goes in the bed itself?

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I think this is a simple thing. Buy a trailer if you want one. I have a trailex that I got for a small RIB, and I use it also for my dyer, my IC canoe and have lent it to friends to use with several other very different boats. The point is.... don't over think this. It's very fucking simple if you want to trailer. If you do, just get one and make it happen, but don't assume that somehow Dave should be responsible for that!

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I think this is a simple thing. Buy a trailer if you want one. I have a trailex that I got for a small RIB, and I use it also for my dyer, my IC canoe and have lent it to friends to use with several other very different boats. The point is.... don't over think this. It's very fucking simple if you want to trailer. If you do, just get one and make it happen, but don't assume that somehow Dave should be responsible for that!

 

 

Well said eliboat. Although this conversation has educated me about the crap that people who make and sell boats have to deal with. It sounds as if a lot of potential buyers need "help" with the simplest of questions like "How do I transport this boat?" and "Where can I sail this boat?" It's given me a whole new appreciation for what local boat dealers have to do to clinch a sale!

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Sailed the UFO today. What a stupendous design execution. Bravo Dave. Simple, easy, fast, comfortable, and amazingly practical relative to our current expectation of foiling boats.

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attachicon.gifgbr266.jpgDRC, we saw one of those yaks, they are da shiz, if I was made of money, would be the only way to go.

Course when you bring a boat from UK, it already comes with the correct dolly, etc, only thing I had to change was ball mount from metric to 1-7/8".

 

Now back on topic....

So, do they not sell 2" balls in the USA? All the trailers I've dealt with that were imported from Europe were a 50mm hitch which is the same as a 2" ball... But that's off topic.

 

Dave, how many people have now had a go on the UFO?

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but don't assume that somehow Dave should be responsible for that!

 

His competition does. Doing less than the competition works out sometimes. Mostly not.

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Right. The competition being the other designer/builder who has just released an exciting, small, ultralight, simple foiler priced a bit more than a Laser. I must have missed that thread.

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The competition being RS Sailing and similar companies, with established dealer and support networks. Anyone who thinks the UFO will stay unique for long is delusional. Capitali$m.

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The competition being RS Sailing and similar companies, with established dealer and support networks. Anyone who thinks the UFO will stay unique for long is delusional. Capitali$m.

Gee, that would be harsh retribution for not adding a custom trailer to the product. Also, don't be too sure about the UFO being copied. The truly unique bits on the boat are provisionally patented already. Not entirely normal for a dinghy, I know, but I was getting insomnia over it before we filed.

 

DRC

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The competition being RS Sailing and similar companies, with established dealer and support networks. Anyone who thinks the UFO will stay unique for long is delusional. Capitali$m.

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The truly unique bits on the boat are provisionally patented already.

 

DRC

 

#smart

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Oops...

If someone actually doesn't buy a UFO because it doesn't come with a trailer, then sailing isn't their primary interest anyway.

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