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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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soma

Gunboat 68

49 posts in this topic

looks like there _is_ a forward cockpit - am i right?

 

and daggerboard slots too

 

i thought that at nyyc they said it was a 65...

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looks like there _is_ a forward cockpit - am i right?

 

and daggerboard slots too

 

i thought that at nyyc they said it was a 65...

Forward cockpit is back.

 

Definitely Daggerboards.

 

We always knew it was going to be 65' but didn't want to fill 68'. We kept the accommodations to 65' until the bitter end and then added 3'. It took some discipline. Similar volume to the gunboat 66 but 4 VIP cabins and 2 extra (smaller) cabins.

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i like the forward cockpit

 

the side cockpits like on the bieker look really good - i've never been on that boat - but they give up a lot of interior space, so for something a bit more cruising oriented, the forward cockpit is good

 

i just really like being able to easily go outside where you can get a good view of where you are going - especially at night

 

the 55 with no forward cockpit.., and all the lines lead inside never made sense to me.

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Well done Soma, she's a beauty. I 'll wait for more detailed drawings before asking questions, but I must say that you have a great foundation to build on, I look forward to seeing where it goes from here.

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One feature not pictured is we will be offering tillers with bucket seats aft, a sort of "belt and suspenders" solution. There will still be a forward inside helm, but for those wanting the wind in your face feel you can have both. It's an innovation from within the fleet that is being adopted by others, as well as us.

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There was a big bright yellow cat dowunder with tillers & a bucket seat. It looked very cool. In NZ maybe.

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There was a big bright yellow cat dowunder with tillers & a bucket seat. It looked very cool. In NZ maybe.

 

That's an Outremmer feature afaik.

 

 

Has anyone ever tried a main/boom setup with no clearance over the coachroof to get the A-cat/AC72 endplate effect?

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i like the forward cockpit

 

the side cockpits like on the bieker look really good - i've never been on that boat - but they give up a lot of interior space, so for something a bit more cruising oriented, the forward cockpit is good

 

i just really like being able to easily go outside where you can get a good view of where you are going - especially at night

 

the 55 with no forward cockpit.., and all the lines lead inside never made sense to me.

Don't want to distract from the thread but drop me a PM if you have actually sailed the 55. Would like to know why you think this.

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I don’t want to create any thread leeway from Soma’s intriguing and promising announcement (and as he now shows also on the Gunboat homepage). But just a quick question: Eastern, please excuse my unfamiliarity with your term ‘endplate effect’. By this do you mean the prevention of lift-draining vortexes at the foot of the mainsail? So the equivalent of modern winglet tips on jet planes? In this case, like what was talked about during the last America’s Cup, with New Zealand having the advantage of a solid deck, but America not? Bringing this back to Gunboat: the 68 is not zero clearance, but would it not be close enough so as to still materially accomplish this effect?


Obviously since you are talking about the boom, you are not referring to the A-cat-like (and G4-like) hull shapes about which Peter J had previously hinted as a next evolution. I acknowledge that I am inept at assessing this attribute from the current (or even future) drawings. Soma, I know that it is still early in the process, but are you able to comment on the actual evolution of the Gunboat hull shapes, in terms of the ultimate goals of both minimising hydraulic resistance, and in enhancing weight bearing when under a powered-up lean? Or should I patiently (oh, but that is hard to be :) ) wait – as Jaybird suggested – for more detailed drawings? Alternatively, please just ignore my question entirely if this is proprietary information.


Thanks.

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Yes that's what he is referring to with end plate effect. I think it's a good idea, but there are some limits (removal of boom = lack of positive rotation in light air, but then you are motor sailing anyway?). It doesn't work if there is a gap between the sail and coach roof/trampoline etc. It needs to be as sealed as possible. The upside is a lower rig center of effort, no boom (thus lighter). Another downside is potentially less rig area up high and controlling the sail shape that low with such a large foot and no boom.

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for a long time windsurfers worried about the end plate effect - a lot of effort was expended designing sails and rigs so that you could "close the gap".., by getting the foot of the sail to touch the board.

 

if you are powered up is is definitely faster to do that.., but it's not like the last inch where you actually close the gap (it's never really fully closed) makes a huge difference.

 

to rake that far back requires harder sheeting and it's not clear which causes which - maybe just the harder sheeting is responsible for the added speed...

 

you don't hear so much talk about it these days.

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i think at NYYC they said 3 years until hull #1 launches - that seems like a long time.., is that still the estimate?

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Just vaporware until one is built. Soma I know you're working hard on it, and I think you guys are set up well to succeed, but it's a long way from renderings to a real boat. Looks awesome though.

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i think at NYYC they said 3 years until hull #1 launches - that seems like a long time.., is that still the estimate?

Target is 26 months from now for hull #1.

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Just vaporware until one is built. Soma I know you're working hard on it, and I think you guys are set up well to succeed, but it's a long way from renderings to a real boat. Looks awesome though.

Thanks! We have multiple buyers already and we are sold out through mid-2020. GLY (parent company) have sound financials with great access to capital. GLY have 700 boats on the water and we launch +/-50 boats/year. We begin construction of the Gunboat 68 in January. It's not theoretical, it's happening.

 

In the meantime we have multiple used boats for sale in the brokerage and are continuing production of the Gunboat 57.

 

Gunboat is back in a big way.

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I saw the Gunboat 57 at the show. It's lustworthy and beautifully done. Is that the only one? I hope Gunboat is truly back in a big way and continues to break new ground.

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There was a big bright yellow cat dowunder with tillers & a bucket seat. It looked very cool. In NZ maybe.

 

That's an Outremmer feature afaik.

 

 

Has anyone ever tried a main/boom setup with no clearance over the coachroof to get the A-cat/AC72 endplate effect?

 

The 55's I worked on had minimal clearance between the boom and coachroof. IMO,It doesn't seem reasonable to have it touch on a none thoroughbred race boat as every tack, jibe and flog is wearing on the coachroof . Not to mention stretch.

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Yeah that's attractive. What's the stern cutout for? Are the DB's asymmetric? I assume so since you went to the effort of making them curved. Is the bridgedeck concept like the Irens' designs or like the MM's i.e. open plan or totally separate or something intermediate?

 

I assume it's a fractional (self tacking) jib but is there a staysail option?

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"What's the stern cutout for?"

 

Several things. One common complaint is boarding from low/medium height docks and/or yacht club launches. This gives you a foot hold below deck height. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people step on fenders. It's also a lead for shore power, hoses, and dock lines. Lastly, it's (likely) the sheet lead for the spin sheets to the aft beam winches. We are working on the ergonomics of the deck plan now.

 

"Are the DB's asymmetric? I assume so since you went to the effort of making them curved."

 

We are making the trunks oversized to accept either. It's a small concession on entrained water but it offers huge optionality. The standard boat will come with symmetric, mainly because tacking/gybing the boards is a pain. We will obviously have an asymmetric solution for those willing to do the work. There are elegant powered board up/down controls now, so the headache of tacking/gybing will be reduced, but will come with an increase in complexity. There are no free lunches.

 

"Is the bridgedeck concept like the Irens' designs or like the MM's i.e. open plan or totally separate or something intermediate?"

 

I'd say more MM than Nigel. There will be a cabin back bulkhead with sliding doors across the back. There will be a salon and a separate aft deck, both spacious. You'll be able to open everything up and make it feel connected, but there will be all weather protection and privacy when it's closed.

 

"I assume it's a fractional (self tacking) jib but is there a staysail option?"

 

We will offer a standard rig package for those happy with an off-the-shelf solution. That will have a self-tacker (J2) and a staysail (J3) as well as a J1 (all standard) as well as a J0 (optional). Then there will obviously be an R and A sails.

 

We are baking in a lot of optionality for the owner's that have specific wishes, though, so we aren't painting people into a corner. We are trying to foresee as many possible outcomes and future proofing where we can. The base boat will be a sick performer but will still be a sensible cruiser. There will be turbo options for those wanting to drop the hull fly wind speed. It's a fun mental exercise, trying to foresee as many different scenarios.

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Just curious, with the curved boards are you adding winglets to the rudders as well?

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Just curious, with the curved boards are you adding winglets to the rudders as well?

Yup.

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Some interesting details I hadn't heard before:

 

 

 

One neat idea is that the modular saloon interior is fully demountable. The company knew that racing owners stripped out their boats for events, so decided to design a modular layout.

 

http://www.yachtingworld.com/yachts-and-gear/gunboat-68-the-high-octane-luxury-performance-cruiser-104647

 

 

supposedly there is a cruising version and a turbo/racing version - so it's possible that the modular interior is a feature of the racing version but not the cruising version

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We have designed the boat with a broad target market in mind. The turbo version should comfortably be the fastest Gunboat afloat, but the cruising version will still be approachable by the world cruiser/circumnavigator. The cruising version has a 25m mast and symmetric boards. The regatta version has a 29m mast and asymmetric boards. There are a whole range of options between those book ends, though.

 

The interior is demountable in both cases. There is nearly a ton of weight that can be left in the container for a regatta. Often times, though, the first thing a new owner will do is a layout refit. We wanted to make that process a little easier. It's also nice to have customization options that are easily implemented within a production setting. If the interior can be carried off, then it can be built off the boat and installed quickly. The bottleneck during production is bodies on the boat, you want as much work to happen as possible concurrently, and to achieve that you need to spread the work around. So lots of pluses.

 

We've put ALOT of thought into this boat. We've gotten great input from the skippers in the fleet and our design team is incredible. This is definitely evolutionary, we've taken the best of the existing fleet and made it better.

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There was a big bright yellow cat dowunder with tillers & a bucket seat. It looked very cool. In NZ maybe.

 

That's an Outremmer feature afaik.

 

 

Has anyone ever tried a main/boom setup with no clearance over the coachroof to get the A-cat/AC72 endplate effect?

 

The 55's I worked on had minimal clearance between the boom and coachroof. IMO,It doesn't seem reasonable to have it touch on a none thoroughbred race boat as every tack, jibe and flog is wearing on the coachroof . Not to mention stretch.

 

While it is nice to have the boom low and close to the coachroof for both the end plate effect and to make it easier to get the main flaked and the sail cover on; I think that it is a good idea to have it high enough to pass over a person lying prone on the cabin top for safety reasons. That way, a crew member has the chance to 'hit the deck' for safety if they happen to be on the coachroof during a gybe, or when the boom is flailing around while hoisting or lowering the sail...

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The boom floats up when the main is up, plenty of clearance to go under, unless you cut it to be a deck sweeper. If your lazy jacks are fixed on the mast, you won't have an issue with the coach roof, if they aren't fixed, remember to take up before dropping the main.

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Here's a version of an endplate. Probably not quite a perfect one, but not bad. I don't let anyone up there. My one complaint is that there's no way to have a proper boom vang.

 

post-398-0-84059600-1486683944_thumb.jpg

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Here's a version of an endplate. Probably not quite a perfect one, but not bad. I don't let anyone up there. My one complaint is that there's no way to have a proper boom vang.

 

Nice lines, the only thing missing is a proper rotating rig....

 

I hope she has dagger boards as well.

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To get an effective aerodynamic endplate, the gap has to be quite small - impractically small on a mainsail. This has been very well studied by NACA/NASA as well as Southhampton.

 

Veeger, you could put an inverted vang on that rig......

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Here's a version of an endplate. Probably not quite a perfect one, but not bad. I don't let anyone up there. My one complaint is that there's no way to have a proper boom vang.

 

Nice lines, the only thing missing is a proper rotating rig....

 

I hope she has dagger boards as well.

 

There's a rotating rig option. And of course she has daggerboards.

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To get an effective aerodynamic endplate, the gap has to be quite small - impractically small on a mainsail. This has been very well studied by NACA/NASA as well as Southhampton.

 

Veeger, you could put an inverted vang on that rig......

 

 

That was why my comment about it not being a 'perfect' endplate. They have to be too impractically close to the deck/hardtop.

 

Not sure the inverted vang could be retrofitted to this rig... give me a couple years, I've been writing too many large checks of late.... shipping from Palm Beach to Victoria next week being the latest....

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To get an effective aerodynamic endplate, the gap has to be quite small - impractically small on a mainsail. This has been very well studied by NACA/NASA as well as Southhampton.

 

Veeger, you could put an inverted vang on that rig......

 

 

That was why my comment about it not being a 'perfect' endplate. They have to be too impractically close to the deck/hardtop.

 

Not sure the inverted vang could be retrofitted to this rig... give me a couple years, I've been writing too many large checks of late.... shipping from Palm Beach to Victoria next week being the latest....

Take a look at a modern A-Class deck sweeper main. It wouldn't be all that bad difficult or expensive to put a slab sail material from the boom down to the roof. It probably wouldn't even need much in the way of battens, just enough to keep it pegged to the top.

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I've been writing too many large checks of late.... shipping from Palm Beach to Victoria next week being the latest....

 

 

 

That has to be a pretty penny - when I had them quote my boat it was over $45K....

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I've been writing too many large checks of late.... shipping from Palm Beach to Victoria next week being the latest....

 

 

 

That has to be a pretty penny - when I had them quote my boat it was over $45K....

 

 

Not quite THAT much, but well more than half....! 3 weeks via ship, 3 months (minimum) on her own bottom. One always pays more for expedited shipping!

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Odd - your boat must be at least as many sq ft of deck space as mine. I wonder how much it varies trip - to - trip? Maybe if it isn't filling up the price gets better? I notice they are running a few more ships now, so maybe more availability. When your boat gets to Victoria, wave at mine - it's in Van Isle.

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I'll wave, but Ogden Point to Anacortes all take me a bit south of you... I suspect the rates are subject to demand as much as anything. It's actually about the same as it cost me to ship my 41 ten years ago. But the marina I'm in currently is running the meter up pretty fast. (West Palm Beach is like that....)

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