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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
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MR.CLEAN

ASK MARK TURNER ANYTHING - FOR INTERVIEW TODAY Nov 3

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As part of our most ambitious month of coverage in a long, long time, I'm traipsing around Europe until the end of

november to sit down with some of the sport's true leaders to get deep into the biggest issues in sailing.

 

Our first of three (or four) big events is literally the biggest single event in the entire sport: the start of the Vendee Globe, and with over 2 million attendees and a truly circus-like atmosphere, there's plenty to learn and plenty of people to chat with. Last time around in 2012, we were quite literally the only reporters from our hemisphere, but four years of international PR and a partnership with Keith Mills OSM has definitely improved the situation - I actually drove down from Paris with New York Times sailing editorChris Museler, and several other non-sailing publications (including the Boston Globe) are on the ground in Les Sables D'Olonne doing their thing for the hundreds of thousands of Americans we know are ripe to learn more about this incredible race and its stars: the skippers AND the boats.

 

While the non-Breton organizers of the Vendee Globe (the one event not owned by IMOCA) have always butted heads with the skippers and Class organization on many matters, they do some things extremely well, and the results of their excellent media relations are easy to see: With some 1100 individually accredited writers and photographers, the Vendee has the largest press corps in attendence of any sailboat race. And while by far the biggest group is French and the Vendee does its best work in French, the message continues to grow to non-French audiences. So while last time, our mission was to provide full English interviews with every departing skipper prior to the start - something no one had ever done - that's no longer necessary, as between the event, the team media, and independent reporters, all of our readers should easily find more information than they need on almost every aspect of the race. If you want to relive the 2012/13 race, the best way to do so is by going through the Vendee thread from start to finish - it'll take some time, but it's a chronological and mostly complete look at every aspect of the race as crowd-sourced by you, the reader. For a quick hit, you can check out the full replay of that excellent start over here.

 

The plethora of coverage for the 2016 race doesn't mean we don't want your help or suggestions on what we oughtta cover, and you can reach out directly to me if you have ideas or questions that you aren't getting answers for - hit us up on Facebook, email me directly, or post in one of the threads I'll be starting if you have questions for some of our Podcast and interview subjects.

 

AS THE WORLD TURNERS

Today's interview with VOR CEO Mark Turner will drop tomorrow, but there's only a few hours left before I talk to one of the most influential men in the sport. Turner started out as an offshore and Mini fan, and turned his relationship with young Ellen Marcarthur into one of the most successful solo campaigns in history. Mark parlayed that success into the Extreme Sailing Series, risking his career on a crazy idea that stadium sailing was the way to solve the sport's long-standing spectator problems. We all know how that turned out, and Mark and the organizations and talent he's created have spread throughout the sport and right to the top of the Volvo Ocean Race and numerous other disciplines.

 

He's here to check out the modern face of the Vendee before he gets back to Volvo Ocean Race world, and we've got him for 90 minutes this afternoon. What do you want to know from the mouth of one of the real leaders in sailing? Post your questions NOW, and we'll get them answered. To watch our last video chat with Turner from Abu Dhabi a year or two ago, clicky.

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With the return of the VOR to the southern ocean will we see ice gates or will the boats have free reign to dive as Deep South as they wants

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Can the 2 girls in the crew be under 30 and count as the under 30 crew? If so, he's comdemning the male under 30's to disappear.

 

Aren't you afraid that the one-design thing will stop evolution in sailing? How will you make sure you're giving steps in the right direction? How can you know what's the best way to move forward if you're not trying different things?

 

What were you thinking when you proposed the mixed crew idea? Don't you think it will be problematic? It doesn't sound fair, I do want women to be involved, but maybe this is too much.

 

That is what very respectfully I would ask him. I don't share his vision of the race now, I think the VO70 editions were much more interesting.

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Can the 2 girls in the crew be under 30 and count as the under 30 crew? If so, he's comdemning the male under 30's to disappear.

 

Aren't you afraid that the one-design thing will stop evolution in sailing? How will you make sure you're giving steps in the right direction? How can you know what's the best way to move forward if you're not trying different things?

 

What were you thinking when you proposed the mixed crew idea? Don't you think it will be problematic? It doesn't sound fair, I do want women to be involved, but maybe this is too much.

 

That is what very respectfully I would ask him. I don't share his vision of the race now, I think the VO70 editions were much more interesting.

 

thanks. I agree the first two VO70 races were enthralling, the last one not so much.

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The struts were thrown in post build. I guess foils are out of the question. But is there anything else being considered to upgrade the boats?

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One of the big complaints about last edition is that tactics were often absent. This is usually attributed to the extend AIS allowed to play follow the leader.

One goal in the recent VOR announcements is to put a bit of uncertainty back into the race. Maybe weather data blackouts, some hints that AIS may get changed.

 

-> Are changes to the AIS still on the table?

 

 

One argument against such a change was that in the VO70 days 2 major teams selected and kept silent about expensive high tech radars that basically gave them the same ability.

 

-> If AIS gets neutered will that radar loophole also get closed?

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Mr Tunner,

I would like to know your opinion on a slightly different question related with sail as well.

Ok, gather audience to sailing sports is not as ease as it could be for other sports. But, one point that rit me hard is to turn classical boats as Star, 470 and other ones obsolete. Keeping the focus on new and acrobatic ones, as we are being seem for "wing" new boats does not have some lose on the sport as it is conceived ??

Thanks

Eduardo

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Is there a way to still manage costs while providing a more exciting OD than the 65?

 

What's the cost/coverage/excitement trade off?

 

If the sailors aren't stoked about their boat's performance an important element to the race is lost isn't it?

 

.... But I'll still watch.

 

The 70s rocked. Far more F1. (yes I know not even close to pushing as hard as F1 in terms of $/tech resources but at least the sailors were reeling off ridiculous/sensational speed and distance numbers and on for a fast ride)

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The universe of Volvo Ocean Race sailors is pretty small, and when teams sign up they obviously choose those who have been around before to be on their crew. It's why you see the same people and the same names showing up on different boats year after year. What can you do to expand this universe and give more people a chance to become volvo ocean race sailors? Because for every Chris Nicholson that we get to see develop as a person, I would like to see a Charlie Enright who is new to the race and brings a new interesting style.

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Why not allow the skipper to have as many or as few crew members as he or she wants? The optimum crew number must be somewhere between 7 and 12 anyway, and if you have too many too heavy people on board, with associated appetites and gear, the boat will be too slow simply because it weighs too much. Women generally are lighter, so you can choose more women and still be within an optimum weight bracket. This would remove the horrible politically correct positive discrimination aspect of the new rules about crew numbers and gender, which have exactly the opposite of the desired effect and effectively reduce the female role to that of cook and toilet cleaner.

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The struts were thrown in post build. I guess foils are out of the question. But is there anything else being considered to upgrade the boats?

 

+1 Like more lead maybe?

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As a rare fan of the VO65 and the concept of OD racing for the VOR, I did notice in the past race teams seemed more tied to their computers for decision making. OD will tend to keep competition close anyway, but predictive routing seemed to just lock them in place.

Would you consider removing predictive routing software, and limiting wx briefings to every 6 hours. position reports every two, so teams would have to rely more on navigators knowledge and experience than a program.

 

Will you expand boat tracking (for spectators) with closer reports, if not continuous, maybe every 15 minutes. In this current format much can happen in shorter time frames and in older races when boats got spread out.

Would you consider creating more open APIs to accessing boat data such that developers could create their own tracking webpage? I realize you want to drive people to your site, and they will go for news, blogs, media, but the official tracker was not great and it took the work of some talented people to create a clear tracker that had better visuals.

Many here is SA want multis as part of the VOR. Do you see this as the next step, and can costs be contained enough to make it work safely or will the next generation of VOR OD be monohull, but with foils.

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Long, turgid and uncontroversial though it was, I had to listen to the whole thing. Clean didn't do justice for the anarchists.

Too much of the Clean ego. Too much praising Mark (there is a less polite word!). No challenging questioning. Lots of waffle from both.

 

No way did Clean put to Mark the problems of the 65 which most of the skippers and plenty of anarchists say is a dog.

 

Clean lamely accepts the 65 will go on unchanged. One-design will continue. Mark says multihulls too dangerous for ocean racing. (Not much hope of anything extreme for the future then! but Clean didn't make that point!)

 

Clean didn't challenge Mark with the opinion of many anarchists that the racing last time was tame and boring.

 

Didn't ask my question about the positive discrimination aspect of the new gender rules. Let's Mark waffle on assuming skippers will all be men! who might or might not choose a girl or two. Mark and Clean both saying that for top performance only an all male crew can do it, despite an inexperienced all female crew already having demonstrated they can win a leg over far more experienced male teams. Mark says he asked other sailors, all men (?), what they thought about the gender rules. Didn't mention any women. Clean doesn't ask why not!

 

Looks like Mark is already locked into a "bean-counter" "old-boy" tradition. Shame he has lost the get up and go of his youth. Well I guess he did say that as a family man he might no longer be so much a risk taker!

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I must have listened to a different interview.

Long, turgid and uncontroversial though it was, I had to listen to the whole thing. Clean didn't do justice for the anarchists.

Too much of the Clean ego. Too much praising Mark (there is a less polite word!). No challenging questioning. Lots of waffle from both.

 

No way did Clean put to Mark the problems of the 65 which most of the skippers and plenty of anarchists say is a dog.

What would be the point? Mark has inherited the boat at a point that is why too late to make any changes

 

Clean lamely accepts the 65 will go on unchanged. One-design will continue. Mark says multihulls too dangerous for ocean racing. (Not much hope of anything extreme for the future then! but Clean didn't make that point!)

Mark said the risk is high, but not that it is off the table. He also mentioned the foiling 60s, that would be an interesting step forward, no?

 

Clean didn't challenge Mark with the opinion of many anarchists that the racing last time was tame and boring.

They talked about this a lot, covering the difficulties of removing AIS, and how to reward strategic risk taking with a points system.

 

Didn't ask my question about the positive discrimination aspect of the new gender rules. Let's Mark waffle on assuming skippers will all be men! who might or might not choose a girl or two. Mark and Clean both saying that for top performance only an all male crew can do it, despite an inexperienced all female crew already having demonstrated they can win a leg over far more experienced male teams. Mark says he asked other sailors, all men (?), what they thought about the gender rules. Didn't mention any women. Clean doesn't ask why not!

Just because he mentioned two male names (both of whom he expected to be against it) does not mean he did not ask the girls. Fair enough, he did not mention it, but he definitely asked the key crew from SCA and a few others. Tracy Edwards proved a female crew could win a leg a long time ago, that is not news. Plus, SCA only won one leg, not the race which they were talking about.

 

Looks like Mark is already locked into a "bean-counter" "old-boy" tradition. Shame he has lost the get up and go of his youth. Well I guess he did say that as a family man he might no longer be so much a risk taker!

I am not saying the interview was perfect, or as combative as you might want, but there were more answers there than you heard...

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i thought he put a lot of stuff out there that wasn't already out there. we didn't talk about whether the 65 was a dog because everybody knows the 65 is a dog, or about your reverse discrimination claim because it's stupid. We also didn't talk about open crew numbers because power to weight ratio so favors men.

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I must have listened to a different interview.

Long, turgid and uncontroversial though it was, I had to listen to the whole thing. Clean didn't do justice for the anarchists.

Too much of the Clean ego. Too much praising Mark (there is a less polite word!). No challenging questioning. Lots of waffle from both.

 

No way did Clean put to Mark the problems of the 65 which most of the skippers and plenty of anarchists say is a dog.

What would be the point? Mark has inherited the boat at a point that is why too late to make any changes

 

Clean lamely accepts the 65 will go on unchanged. One-design will continue. Mark says multihulls too dangerous for ocean racing. (Not much hope of anything extreme for the future then! but Clean didn't make that point!)

Mark said the risk is high, but not that it is off the table. He also mentioned the foiling 60s, that would be an interesting step forward, no?

 

Clean didn't challenge Mark with the opinion of many anarchists that the racing last time was tame and boring.

They talked about this a lot, covering the difficulties of removing AIS, and how to reward strategic risk taking with a points system.

 

Didn't ask my question about the positive discrimination aspect of the new gender rules. Let's Mark waffle on assuming skippers will all be men! who might or might not choose a girl or two. Mark and Clean both saying that for top performance only an all male crew can do it, despite an inexperienced all female crew already having demonstrated they can win a leg over far more experienced male teams. Mark says he asked other sailors, all men (?), what they thought about the gender rules. Didn't mention any women. Clean doesn't ask why not!

Just because he mentioned two male names (both of whom he expected to be against it) does not mean he did not ask the girls. Fair enough, he did not mention it, but he definitely asked the key crew from SCA and a few others. Tracy Edwards proved a female crew could win a leg a long time ago, that is not news. Plus, SCA only won one leg, not the race which they were talking about.

 

Looks like Mark is already locked into a "bean-counter" "old-boy" tradition. Shame he has lost the get up and go of his youth. Well I guess he did say that as a family man he might no longer be so much a risk taker!

I am not saying the interview was perfect, or as combative as you might want, but there were more answers there than you heard...

 

Its not the answers I had a problem with, it was the questions!!

 

..... and Potter, when you quote me you should not really add your own comments in with my text as if I had written them, especially when your point is irrelevant. SCA was the first all female team to win a Volvo leg in a one design boat, clearly demonstrating that despite Clean's power to weight arguement, given an identical boat, a bunch of relatively inexperienced women can beat teams of hugely experienced men. Tracy, much as I admire her, wasn't sailing a one design boat, so there is a subtle difference which maybe escapes you.

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i thought he put a lot of stuff out there that wasn't already out there. we didn't talk about whether the 65 was a dog because everybody knows the 65 is a dog, or about your reverse discrimination claim because it's stupid. We also didn't talk about open crew numbers because power to weight ratio so favors men.

I know it was heavy going but did anyone else out there stay awake right through to the end?

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Yo, Blockhead, when you choose to not talk about the unspoken truth that everyone knows, you are part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

 

It's a conscious choice, you can't defer blame here.

 

The V65 has done more to retard crewed offshore sailing than any other design in history ... And you've become its biggest promoter by not challenging its existence when afforded the opportunity to do so.

 

By definition, you're either complicit or you're retarded. I'm willing to take the high road and vouch that you're retarded ... Its the very least I could do for you given the circumstances.

 

Good grief ...

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MT did a good job of deflecting the bald ego interruptions but he gradually got overwhelmed by clean showing us how well informed about F1 and VOR he isn't, as usual his normal equipment failure showed up again...he blowed it up with 220 volts! ..fortunately he did us a favour as we didn't get to hear as much of his I,I,I,I...

I can see MT walking away from the 'inner view' shaking his head as clean cries "drinks..where are the VOR drinks at?"...

 

As for the much vaunted 'dock walk' maybe he should get Ryan to do it on his own next year...then we wouldn't have to see clean geared up in his swag with his trendy cans, looking like he is ready for the Southern Ocean whilst RB is in a windbreaker...nor would we have clean mistaking the penguin and have to listen to him tell us how much work he did on the boat and how many miles he delivered it...twice!

and clean's schonzle and nose hairs wouldn't keep popping up...

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I must have listened to a different interview.

Long, turgid and uncontroversial though it was, I had to listen to the whole thing. Clean didn't do justice for the anarchists.

Too much of the Clean ego. Too much praising Mark (there is a less polite word!). No challenging questioning. Lots of waffle from both.

 

No way did Clean put to Mark the problems of the 65 which most of the skippers and plenty of anarchists say is a dog.

What would be the point? Mark has inherited the boat at a point that is why too late to make any changes

 

Clean lamely accepts the 65 will go on unchanged. One-design will continue. Mark says multihulls too dangerous for ocean racing. (Not much hope of anything extreme for the future then! but Clean didn't make that point!)

Mark said the risk is high, but not that it is off the table. He also mentioned the foiling 60s, that would be an interesting step forward, no?

 

Clean didn't challenge Mark with the opinion of many anarchists that the racing last time was tame and boring.

They talked about this a lot, covering the difficulties of removing AIS, and how to reward strategic risk taking with a points system.

 

Didn't ask my question about the positive discrimination aspect of the new gender rules. Let's Mark waffle on assuming skippers will all be men! who might or might not choose a girl or two. Mark and Clean both saying that for top performance only an all male crew can do it, despite an inexperienced all female crew already having demonstrated they can win a leg over far more experienced male teams. Mark says he asked other sailors, all men (?), what they thought about the gender rules. Didn't mention any women. Clean doesn't ask why not!

Just because he mentioned two male names (both of whom he expected to be against it) does not mean he did not ask the girls. Fair enough, he did not mention it, but he definitely asked the key crew from SCA and a few others. Tracy Edwards proved a female crew could win a leg a long time ago, that is not news. Plus, SCA only won one leg, not the race which they were talking about.

 

Looks like Mark is already locked into a "bean-counter" "old-boy" tradition. Shame he has lost the get up and go of his youth. Well I guess he did say that as a family man he might no longer be so much a risk taker!

I am not saying the interview was perfect, or as combative as you might want, but there were more answers there than you heard...

 

Its not the answers I had a problem with, it was the questions!!

 

..... and Potter, when you quote me you should not really add your own comments in with my text as if I had written them, especially when your point is irrelevant. SCA was the first all female team to win a Volvo leg in a one design boat, clearly demonstrating that despite Clean's power to weight arguement, given an identical boat, a bunch of relatively inexperienced women can beat teams of hugely experienced men. Tracy, much as I admire her, wasn't sailing a one design boat, so there is a subtle difference which maybe escapes you.

 

Fair enough about not changing the font, sorry, I was on my phone.

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The VO65 has done what it needed to do, ie set a cap on a large number of expenses and allowed a few brands into the sport. Hopefully the global economy improves enough that after this round, we never see them again.

 

AND was there ever a race recap documentary?

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please advise possible vo65 life span ?

 

if by case monohull remain vivid for vor, would the organizers and sponsor may benefit of running two different classes for next edition, i.e. vor65 + new ?

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please advise possible vo65 life span ?

 

if by case monohull remain vivid for vor, would the organizers and sponsor may benefit of running two different classes for next edition, i.e. vor65 + new ?

If properly taken care of they'll easly last for 20 years . Based on the podcast, it seems unlikely that there would be two classes in the next VOR. In a race with more lax regulations the biggest and fastest boat will benefit.

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....that was the simple answer. In a box rule race like the vendee there will be some extra benefits for the team's sponsor, as they can keep their fans interested through the whole unveiling and testing period of the new design.

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....that was the simple answer. In a box rule race like the vendee there will be some extra benefits for the team's sponsor, as they can keep their fans interested through the whole unveiling and testing period of the new design.

dear jonas a,

part of my question was rhetoric, and it was - what you are going to do with 8 identical boats with tons of (expensive) equipment.

the rest was a friendly question to answer to the first part.

obviously after this next,last edition for vo65 , keeping the event on 'extreme' means new approach and terms ( if not class)

let the boss give us the track ?

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Sorry, I clearly misunderstood, happens a lot over here. To keep the race extreme, most of it should take place in the southern ocean, which it more or less now does, and obviously, after the introduction of the new gen Imoca boats, we expect nothing less from VOR. Not sure how much the current boats can be upgraded though. They're still decent ocean racers, so maybe they could be sold and a new design introduced. As mentioned in the other thread VPLP thinks that a safe Round the World multi should be at least 85 ft.

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Sorry, I clearly misunderstood, happens a lot over here. To keep the race extreme, most of it should take place in the southern ocean, which it more or less now does, and obviously, after the introduction of the new gen Imoca boats, we expect nothing less from VOR. Not sure how much the current boats can be upgraded though. They're still decent ocean racers, so maybe they could be sold and a new design introduced. As mentioned in the other thread VPLP thinks that a safe Round the World multi should be at least 85 ft.

Just don't quite follow how "safe", equates with "Life at the Extreme". For me, "Life at the Extreme" equates with "fast", if one is talking about a race.

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Sorry, I clearly misunderstood, happens a lot over here. To keep the race extreme, most of it should take place in the southern ocean, which it more or less now does, and obviously, after the introduction of the new gen Imoca boats, we expect nothing less from VOR. Not sure how much the current boats can be upgraded though. They're still decent ocean racers, so maybe they could be sold and a new design introduced. As mentioned in the other thread VPLP thinks that a safe Round the World multi should be at least 85 ft.

Just don't quite follow how "safe", equates with "Life at the Extreme". For me, "Life at the Extreme" equates with "fast", if one is talking about a race.

 

I guess "safe" means safe enough for an experienced crew. It's all about calculated risk.

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Sorry, I clearly misunderstood, happens a lot over here. To keep the race extreme, most of it should take place in the southern ocean, which it more or less now does, and obviously, after the introduction of the new gen Imoca boats, we expect nothing less from VOR. Not sure how much the current boats can be upgraded though. They're still decent ocean racers, so maybe they could be sold and a new design introduced. As mentioned in the other thread VPLP thinks that a safe Round the World multi should be at least 85 ft.

Just don't quite follow how "safe", equates with "Life at the Extreme". For me, "Life at the Extreme" equates with "fast", if one is talking about a race.

 

I guess "safe" means safe enough for an experienced crew. It's all about calculated risk.

 

So, "safe" = low calculated risk? not very risky?

Looks like we agree with each other.

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please advise possible vo65 life span ?

 

if by case monohull remain vivid for vor, would the organizers and sponsor may benefit of running two different classes for next edition, i.e. vor65 + new ?

They tried that before with the W60 and Maxi class and Dalton didn't stop whining about it for months.

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Sorry, I clearly misunderstood, happens a lot over here. To keep the race extreme, most of it should take place in the southern ocean, which it more or less now does, and obviously, after the introduction of the new gen Imoca boats, we expect nothing less from VOR. Not sure how much the current boats can be upgraded though. They're still decent ocean racers, so maybe they could be sold and a new design introduced. As mentioned in the other thread VPLP thinks that a safe Round the World multi should be at least 85 ft.

I wonder what the demand would be for them?similar running costs as a V70 and slower.

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Sorry, I clearly misunderstood, happens a lot over here. To keep the race extreme, most of it should take place in the southern ocean, which it more or less now does, and obviously, after the introduction of the new gen Imoca boats, we expect nothing less from VOR. Not sure how much the current boats can be upgraded though. They're still decent ocean racers, so maybe they could be sold and a new design introduced. As mentioned in the other thread VPLP thinks that a safe Round the World multi should be at least 85 ft.

 

I wonder what the demand would be for them?similar running costs as a V70 and slower.

Good question. They're a bit newer and build quality should be decent.

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Sorry, I clearly misunderstood, happens a lot over here. To keep the race extreme, most of it should take place in the southern ocean, which it more or less now does, and obviously, after the introduction of the new gen Imoca boats, we expect nothing less from VOR. Not sure how much the current boats can be upgraded though. They're still decent ocean racers, so maybe they could be sold and a new design introduced. As mentioned in the other thread VPLP thinks that a safe Round the World multi should be at least 85 ft.

 

I wonder what the demand would be for them?similar running costs as a V70 and slower.

Good question. They're a bit newer and build quality should be decent.

Nothing against Persico or Green marine, pretty sure most of the old V70s were built to the same standard. Just that the 65s were built to a higher laminate scantling etc.

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Sorry, I clearly misunderstood, happens a lot over here. To keep the race extreme, most of it should take place in the southern ocean, which it more or less now does, and obviously, after the introduction of the new gen Imoca boats, we expect nothing less from VOR. Not sure how much the current boats can be upgraded though. They're still decent ocean racers, so maybe they could be sold and a new design introduced. As mentioned in the other thread VPLP thinks that a safe Round the World multi should be at least 85 ft.

I wonder what the demand would be for them?similar running costs as a V70 and slower.

Good question. They're a bit newer and build quality should be decent.

Nothing against Persico or Green marine, pretty sure most of the old V70s were built to the same standard. Just that the 65s were built to a higher laminate scantling etc.

 

Also, while the 65 might not be the most extreme boat out there, it still plenty fast and a good platform for an aspiring offshore team to do the "600's" and some trans atlantic races.

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Sorry, I clearly misunderstood, happens a lot over here. To keep the race extreme, most of it should take place in the southern ocean, which it more or less now does, and obviously, after the introduction of the new gen Imoca boats, we expect nothing less from VOR. Not sure how much the current boats can be upgraded though. They're still decent ocean racers, so maybe they could be sold and a new design introduced. As mentioned in the other thread VPLP thinks that a safe Round the World multi should be at least 85 ft.

Just don't quite follow how "safe", equates with "Life at the Extreme". For me, "Life at the Extreme" equates with "fast", if one is talking about a race.

 

I guess "safe" means safe enough for an experienced crew. It's all about calculated risk.

 

So, "safe" = low calculated risk? not very risky?

Looks like we agree with each other.

 

Safe is not always slow. It could also be a better design that is more suitable for higher speeds in demanding environments, which lets you push even harder

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Sorry, I clearly misunderstood, happens a lot over here. To keep the race extreme, most of it should take place in the southern ocean, which it more or less now does, and obviously, after the introduction of the new gen Imoca boats, we expect nothing less from VOR. Not sure how much the current boats can be upgraded though. They're still decent ocean racers, so maybe they could be sold and a new design introduced. As mentioned in the other thread VPLP thinks that a safe Round the World multi should be at least 85 ft.

Just don't quite follow how "safe", equates with "Life at the Extreme". For me, "Life at the Extreme" equates with "fast", if one is talking about a race.

 

I guess "safe" means safe enough for an experienced crew. It's all about calculated risk.

 

So, "safe" = low calculated risk? not very risky?

Looks like we agree with each other.

 

Safe is not always slow. It could also be a better design that is more suitable for higher speeds in demanding environments, which lets you push even harder

 

few years ago i was about to see myself as not bad crew member for vor race. ( getting older ...)

to make it clear - i dont mess with vor pros, just ordinary devoting yacht racing person keen to live this life for a year or two.

for a such person, priority is safe than extreme. ( as whitbread started?)

this is why for me a bit more safe sailiing (not that extreme in the middle of 60'-50') monotype can be my choice

is that all about only for pro pain ? c'mon - keep it simple

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Sorry, I clearly misunderstood, happens a lot over here. To keep the race extreme, most of it should take place in the southern ocean, which it more or less now does, and obviously, after the introduction of the new gen Imoca boats, we expect nothing less from VOR. Not sure how much the current boats can be upgraded though. They're still decent ocean racers, so maybe they could be sold and a new design introduced. As mentioned in the other thread VPLP thinks that a safe Round the World multi should be at least 85 ft.

I wonder what the demand would be for them?similar running costs as a V70 and slower.
Good question. They're a bit newer and build quality should be decent.
Nothing against Persico or Green marine, pretty sure most of the old V70s were built to the same standard. Just that the 65s were built to a higher laminate scantling etc.

Also, while the 65 might not be the most extreme boat out there, it still plenty fast and a good platform for an aspiring offshore team to do the "600's" and some trans atlantic races.

Good point, but still expensive and probably disappointing when an old V70 sails under and over you though.

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