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V21

Venture 21 rig ideas / turbo

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Hey all, not new here just created a login for this project.

 

So, I have a venture 21 I'm working on, when your all done laughing at me I would love some help, mainly with working out the rig.

 

Here are my current thoughts.

 

1. Get the new type class sails seen here https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154532943827766&set=pcb.1828377540733188&type=3&theater.

 

The only real down side to this is cost, got a quote for $1200 for main and jib. I would like to spend less if possible.

 

2. Viper rig. Coincidentally the sail area stays the same, but you a bigger main, smaller jib sail plan which I definitely want. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154292754767766&set=oa.1789365707967705&type=3&theater.

 

A guy I know has an alu Viper rig, doesn't own a Viper, there are none in town and he wants $350 for the mast which I think is a bit steep.

 

I am assuming that I can get used Viper sails fairly easily for not too much $$$.

 

3. Extend current rig to use Viper sails, the section is available by the foot. This section was used on all models up to the V24, which I guess makes it strong enough. Would the Viper sails look like shit on a different mast ?

 

4. Something I haven't thought of ??

 

I really want a non overlapping headsail, I really want and assymetric for ease of use. Budget is fairly low.

 

Any great ideas ? Thanks

 

 

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He doesn't sail much and has a J24 for when he does, am I right in thinking that $350 sounds like a ridiculous valuation for used Viper Alu mast.

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He doesn't sail much and has a J24 for when he does, am I right in thinking that $350 sounds like a ridiculous valuation for used Viper Alu mast.

 

In good shape, if I needed it? Sounds reasonable. Offer him $250.

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Do you think it would be a better solution than extending the original rig ?

 

How much lipstick are you going to put on this beast? If you can get a whole new rig for $300, why would you fuck around with the old one? I have spent an inordinate amount of time discovering that I have just spent 3 hours of my life, a couple of Dremel disks, some wet/dry sandpaper, and $10 worth of epoxy to not fix something.

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First check the spreader lengths & sweep angles of the Viper rig against what you currently have. If you have to do any modification to the rig or your deck that will end up a very expensive change.

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Do you think it would be a better solution than extending the original rig ?

 

How much lipstick are you going to put on this beast? If you can get a whole new rig for $300, why would you fuck around with the old one? I have spent an inordinate amount of time discovering that I have just spent 3 hours of my life, a couple of Dremel disks, some wet/dry sandpaper, and $10 worth of epoxy to not fix something.

Only possible reason for fucking with the old one vs Viper mast, The section was used up to a V24, I will not be altering the sail area, so in my mind I don't have to worry about the rig breaking. The Viper rig will be basically transplanting it onto a heavier, slower boat. Do I have to worry about snapping it ?

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First check the spreader lengths & sweep angles of the Viper rig against what you currently have. If you have to do any modification to the rig or your deck that will end up a very expensive change.

I have some dwyer spreaders kicking around, last owner already took the chain plates out. It appears that they are just bolted through the topsides. I will look closer but it doesn't appear that there is specially reinforced section for them, I might be missing something but I can't see that it would be huge or expensive deal to move it. Whatever the outcome, I will be getting new standing rigging.

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Do you think it would be a better solution than extending the original rig ?

 

How much lipstick are you going to put on this beast? If you can get a whole new rig for $300, why would you fuck around with the old one? I have spent an inordinate amount of time discovering that I have just spent 3 hours of my life, a couple of Dremel disks, some wet/dry sandpaper, and $10 worth of epoxy to not fix something.

 

This! You have a bug under my dining table or something?

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I'm with you there, if the Viper rig is a better solution, then I'm not going to dick around with other one in order to save a couple of hundred bucks, budget is low but not that bad, but lets take a quick step back.

 

Does anyone have a really solid and previously un thought of reason why a viper rig wouldn't work or if there is a better idea out there ?

 

I wonder if it might look a bit like

 

$350 mast, maybe $650 for sails I could live with really shit ones just to test the idea, and about $1000 for lines, blocks, standing rigging and all that stuff.

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OK... so this an irrational project ROI-wise, so just lets get that out there and be done with it.

 

But it sounds like fun so I like it. And I have dreams of doing something crazy like that with the same boat (parents bought one was I was 9) so...

 

First thing I would do is have a lead swing keel cast instead of the crap glass encased lead shot and/or steel and/or cast iron. What a mess long term from the factory. Splitting keels and everthang'. Especially since its a "swing-keel", as in retracting in the hull at some point.

 

And very important to turbo-ing it is the material choices did nothing for the stability either.

 

DYI not easy but possible? But without that everything above the waterline is moot?

 

This is fun.

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Glib answer to the project being irrational, yes it is, it's a boat they all are.

 

I have been waiting to start this thread for ages and trying not to think about the rest until the keel issue was dealt with, mine is later model which had an iron keel, the good part is that they don't expand.

 

It has been removed, de rusted, filled, faired, primed, bottom painted and re installed with a new bronze bushing tightly hugging the keel bolt. I didn't do anything else until this mission was done. Should be ok for a while, I'm not getting another keel made.

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I like the idea of a viper rig, but those boats are really light. Can it handle the loads?

Moving the chain plates back would be a lot of sweat equity, but not very expensive.

 

Well used J/70 or Melges 20 sails might be a cheap (~cheaper~) way to power it up.

You'll need an inexpensive sprit. I've seen a short one made out of an aluminum spin pole and a dolphin striker.

 

It will be hard to turbo the boat without some righting momentum. The keel on the Melges 24 weighs about 700lbs.

You will need to figure out how to get some weight way down low, but I'm not sure how on a tight budget.

 

A running back stay will cost nearly as much as that mast and a necessity.

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V21, you're in virgin territory here; whatever you do, you are likely to be the first person to do it on this boat. So asking advise here is only slightly better than fully pointless. As for people saying the Viper rig is too light for the loads, I offer you the Star. Use common sense, take some risks, use due caution, and have a blast!

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I like the idea of a viper rig, but those boats are really light. Can it handle the loads?

 

The rig you mean ? Not sure, that was a question I had, putting it on a heavier boat, but probably with less righting moment, I'm in a lightish wind and flat water venue, and due to non planing hull my technique for gusts down wind will be to drive deep rather than crank it up and plane.

 

Moving the chain plates back would be a lot of sweat equity, but not very expensive.

 

I will have a closer look but I don't think there is huge amount work, to move them, they are already out, I think just cut a slot in the deck and three holes in the topside, They original holes are approx 18 inches aft of the mast, which may even be close to ok.

 

Well used J/70 or Melges 20 sails might be a cheap (~cheaper~) way to power it up.

 

I think they would be too big but have considered having the bottom off the main and sticking on the rig I have, I think this merits further thought / opinion.

 

You'll need an inexpensive sprit. I've seen a short one made out of an aluminum spin pole and a dolphin striker.

 

Got one, from a previous stillborn project, even some of the bits to make it articulate ( not thinking about that now )

 

It will be hard to turbo the boat without some righting momentum. The keel on the Melges 24 weighs about 700lbs.

You will need to figure out how to get some weight way down low, but I'm not sure how on a tight budget.

 

I think that is bridge too far for me, which is why I like the viper idea, not really trying to turbo the boat as such, it happens that the ( upwind )sail area is the same, just in more more modern layout, which allows faster tacking, a spin which is easier to use and access to a used sail market.

 

A running back stay will cost nearly as much as that mast and a necessity.

 

?? A tang and piece of dyneema and a cleat ?

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V21, you're in virgin territory here; whatever you do, you are likely to be the first person to do it on this boat. So asking advise here is only slightly better than fully pointless. As for people saying the Viper rig is too light for the loads, I offer you the Star. Use common sense, take some risks, use due caution, and have a blast!

I seem to recall that it has been done before, possibly in AZ. No details though

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As far as righting moment goes,you could hang a lead shoe off the bottom of the keel on a pivot, which would also transfer weight aft when you are going downwind with a kite and the keel up dinghy style. I have a sym kite (that I picked up from Minnies) on my V22-2, last time I had it out with the kite up was before I started racing so haven't tried that yet, but... (hold my beer)

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If I'm going to use a rig about which there is some question as to strength, it seems like adding righting moment is a bad idea ????

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My understanding is the Viper rigs were switched out to reduce weight aloft, originally boats had a turtle problem. I think they increased the ballast weight as well.


Do you have a pre-1970 boat with the external keel, or the later model with the deep well that allows the keel to retract into the hull?

I was thinking about doing this exact project a couple years ago and spent quite a bit of time talking it over with some V21 fans. Guy in WA (can't remember his name) had a ridiculously shined up boat he claimed he could get to 20 knots DDW.

Way over sized main, big roachy jib and a masthead symmetric spin with a couple extra feet of girth built in.

He claimed only the pre-70 boats could plane. He said due to the large hole for the keel recess in the later models there was just too much drag to allow the boat to get up & go. He had done the work to switch a keel on a newer boat to the older style, but would not do it again or recommend it.

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V21, you're in virgin territory here; whatever you do, you are likely to be the first person to do it on this boat. So asking advise here is only slightly better than fully pointless. As for people saying the Viper rig is too light for the loads, I offer you the Star. Use common sense, take some risks, use due caution, and have a blast!

I seem to recall that it has been done before, possibly in AZ. No details though

 

 

Yes in AZ but the owner is in Spain for a while and that project is on indefinite hold.

 

If your boat is not one of the early ones don't bother.

 

-Snap

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V21, you're in virgin territory here; whatever you do, you are likely to be the first person to do it on this boat. So asking advise here is only slightly better than fully pointless. As for people saying the Viper rig is too light for the loads, I offer you the Star. Use common sense, take some risks, use due caution, and have a blast!

I seem to recall that it has been done before, possibly in AZ. No details though

 

 

Yes in AZ but the owner is in Spain for a while and that project is on indefinite hold.

 

If your boat is not one of the early ones don't bother.

 

-Snap

 

I think mine is a 79, why do you say don't bother ? Because of the keel slot ? Probably need to add some clarification here.

 

1. I already have the boat, so that isn't changing.

 

2. I am extremely unlikely to modify the keel, mostly because the ease of use issue. I want to be able to trailer it easily and go to the beach easily, both of these matter more than performance. And I can't really be fucked.........

 

3. I may have been slightly misleading with the turbo phrase, what I really would like to do is modernise the rig with a non overlapping headsail, and Asym and better deck layout for ease of use. Racing here is generally low level with not enough and inexperienced crew, if I can't get a crew or just want to go for and hours sail I want to be able to single hand easily. I would also consider daysailing with my wife and toddler singlehanding with passengers.

 

4. Before I got the boat some assclown decided to remove every fitting, the sails are shit as is the running rigging. Point being that changing the deck layout, and modernising the sail plan isn't a ton more work or money than going with the standard setup, so I might as well.

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I think mine is a 79, why do you say don't bother ? Because of the keel slot ? Probably need to add some clarification here.

 

1. I already have the boat, so that isn't changing.

 

2. I am extremely unlikely to modify the keel, mostly because the ease of use issue. I want to be able to trailer it easily and go to the beach easily, both of these matter more than performance. And I can't really be fucked.........

 

3. I may have been slightly misleading with the turbo phrase, what I really would like to do is modernise the rig with a non overlapping headsail, and Asym and better deck layout for ease of use. Racing here is generally low level with not enough and inexperienced crew, if I can't get a crew or just want to go for and hours sail I want to be able to single hand easily. I would also consider daysailing with my wife and toddler singlehanding with passengers.

 

4. Before I got the boat some assclown decided to remove every fitting, the sails are shit as is the running rigging. Point being that changing the deck layout, and modernising the sail plan isn't a ton more work or money than going with the standard setup, so I might as well.

 

 

A '79 model will be heavier than an early boat

 

If you want any type of performance you'll need to address the gaping keel trunk issue. The other V21 in AZ filled it in and keeps the keel down, which takes away from some of your criteria. That boat was pretty damn fast and if you bothered to do a search here you'd find another whole thread on this somewhere (not sure which forum)

 

Based on your budgetary constraints just either set it up stock and sail with the jib and alum asym prod. Putting a Viper rig on it makes no sense given the increased weight (over an earlier model) and trunk

 

The early V21's are pretty damn fast boats when set up right, even in stock config (just ask anyone who remembers racing against The Blue Light Special in AZ or Mar-V-Les in the Hot Rum Series in San Diego)

 

Good luck and have fun with it.

 

-Snap

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1. I believe I have searched and read everything online. Including I think the thread you mentioned.

 

2. It may well be the case that if I can locate a cheap set of used viper sails, that maybe the cheapest way to go. I doubt that used venture 21 sails are really a thing and I have a quote for $1200 for a main and jib new.

 

3. I have very briefly considered an idea of a keel slot filler that isn't permanent. Undo the cable when the keel is down and use it to hold a blank in place.

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Thinking out loud........... The stock rig would be less hassle, if only I could find a main with some roach which would allow me use a smaller jib,

 

p= 21.83 ft

e=9.75.

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More thinking out loud, what if I could find a melges 20 / j70 / viper/ roachy main. have my sailmaker buddy cut the bottom off to fit the standard mast. Find a used jib that gets me close to the approximate original sail area ?

 

I think this would add some area to the main and let me cut down on overlap for the headsail.

 

I think this would be the least amount of work and possibly cost if I can find a set of almost "dumpster ready" sails just to see if the idea worked.

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A used J/70 main could be bought and cut to fit your boat for a fraction of the cost of everything else discussed so far.

I'm thinking this is the way to go, based on the theory that the new made for the boat "turbo" ( roachy main, smaller jib ) are the best solution.

 

Those sails require some rig mods which are probably, documented.

 

I could do the mods as prescribed, get hold of a j70/melges 20 main, alter it to fit rig, work out how much sail area I have in the main and find a used jib which gets me about the right amount of sail area for the boat. If it works good, them I'm good. If it doesn't, live with it for a bit and save up for the right sails.

 

This seems like the best idea to me, any thoughts ???

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Does your keel pivot up and down, operated by a wire cable on a winch?

 

If so, inspect the pivot pin. It's probably iron and it's probably worn half through.

Inspect the lifting cable -- especially at the ends (splices.) It that cable breaks and the keel free-swings, it may be the straw that breaks the camel's back and your worn hinge pin may break. For many many reasons, you do not want to lose that keel to the sea.

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Does your keel pivot up and down, operated by a wire cable on a winch?

 

If so, inspect the pivot pin. It's probably iron and it's probably worn half through.

Inspect the lifting cable -- especially at the ends (splices.) It that cable breaks and the keel free-swings, it may be the straw that breaks the camel's back and your worn hinge pin may break. For many many reasons, you do not want to lose that keel to the sea.

Thanks, keel was the first project. Pin actually looked good so I didn't replace, cable new. I have done quite a bit of work to it all.

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Thanks, keel was the first project. Pin actually looked good so I didn't replace, cable new. I have done quite a bit of work to it all.

 

 

So you removed the pin?

That's usually a difficult project.

Some times it needs to be bored out.

 

The reason I ask is because wear to the pivot pin can't be seen until it's removed. That's why so many of these end up embedded in the mud at the bottom of the lake. "Looked fine from the outside..."

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Took out the whole keel, down to metal, filled, faired, primed, bottom painted, new bushing for pivot pin, had a pretty good look at the pivot bolt, I think it's ok.

 

Yes..... fairly difficult

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Took out the whole keel, down to metal, filled, faired, primed, bottom painted, new bushing for pivot pin, had a pretty good look at the pivot bolt, I think it's ok.

 

Yes..... fairly difficult

 

I'm impressed! thumbsup.gif

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Did you replace the rubber washers and use the correct cupped washers on the keel bolt? I remember mine liked to seep a bit. Also when trailering make sure to lower the keel in the cradel on the trailer to take the load off the hull.

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Used the correct, but didn't replace the washers and rubber bits, all looked ok. I think someone else had replaced the keel bolt to a newer, larger diameter one at some point.

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Some of the later venture 21 models had a lead keel instead of the earlier steel and lead shot fiberglass encased keel.

 

Not sure if that has been mentioned yet hard to follow threads on my Android.

 

 

The lead keel was better shaped and allowed shallower beaching vs the wider built fiberglass one that always cracked.

 

 

I have owned one of each. The later of the two being a 1979 model. Was a much nicer boat in the cabin. Still bare bones but the keel trunk was much less pronounced and made more room for launching.

 

The gf and i would have to get into push up position and crawl backwards into the v berth! I miss that boat sometimes.

 

The earlier boat had much heavier gauge mast and boom plus split back stay.

 

 

The 79 was all lighter boom and mast also seemed thinner on the lay of fiberglass.

 

Also had a single backstay.

 

The storage was better designed plus nicer cabin finish.

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I think they also did and Iron keel version that I have. Anyway, the keel is what it is. I think it's all good.

 

Back to the rig, the details of the mods to go with a bigger main smaller jib are available, I am really staring to like the idea of the cut down melges 20 / J70 main. What ever jib and asym that will get me near the original sail area. What is wrong with this idea ??

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Congrads on a great project.I have been following your thread with interest, as I have the Mac/venture 27 foot mast too, mounted on my 19'6'' centreboard boat.

I have turbo'ed mine, but that is another thread for one day. http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=6067

 

Here is one of the nicest pics I found of the V21. The software won't let me paste it so here. http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/17014

 

My comments on your build;

 

Stick with the mast you have. Rig your forestay right to the bow, not the deck, as many have done.

 

You can still have a small jib with a masthead rig, not just a fractional.

 

With a masthead forestay, you could also try flying a larger jib with yankee cut, or experiment with a much taller and narrow jib. In very light wind, a huge genoa upwind is still an option.

 

If you keep the rig as fractional, you add another shroud and chainplate, swept aft enough so you can omit the backstay, and carry a square top, huge-roach main.

My fathead, full batten, full roach main is 221 sf compared to the old pinhead at 165.

 

Make your sprit 4 feet with a bobstay. I run a 300sf A-sail to one foot above the hounds and have a custom masthead 190sf upwind sail coming.

 

Find a full batten used main with a longer E measurement right to the stern and cut down a used boom to fit.[no backstay]

 

A J24 genoa will fit on your sprit if you add the luff wire and rig it to the mast head. That would be crazy. You may need a third shroud to the mast head with a second short spreader and/or add adj runners. But that is the fun part, right?

 

A 5 foot traveller for the main if you don't use an adjustable bridal on the stern.

 

Inhauler and downhauler if you don't use jib tracks.

 

Consider adding water ballast you can dispose off for off the wind. http://www.wyliecat.com/about/about_tom_amex.html

 

A new lifting rudder with a modern profile. It made a huge difference on mine.

 

Mast rake. I had an extra inch added to my forestay and the results were positive, with a very light tiller that I can let go of sailing upwind and let the boat track.

 

Can you shape the centreboard better on the leading and trailing edge?

 

+1 on the c/bd trunk flaps mentioned above.

 

Use an old symmetrical kite tacked right to the sprit as a dirtbag A-sail.

 

 

I notice that some V21 rigs seem to have a longer boom, with a bridle setup for the main. http://www.sailingtexas.com/sventure21c.html

 

 

Comparing some specs with your boat. http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=137

 

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=4198

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=76

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=307

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=47

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=148

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https://www.flickr.com/photos/146453835@N03/22789121178/in/datetaken/

 

Starting to look better ( still a shit box close up ) Did the black bottom paint today.

 

Thanks Norse Horse, my big question to you...... when you did your turboing. How much of it was well researched and thought out, and how much was "fuck it lets see what happens"

I did some of the turbo-ing last spring. The sprit, A-sail, shrouds, chainplates, rudder, runners, main and rigging.

Well researched and thought out?

Sprit is only a foot longer than the designed spinnaker pole length.

A-sail custom for the boat, a foot above the hounds. The boat was a rock in 20 knots apparent. Ghosted wing on wing very well.

Shrouds. Advice from Protec for me. We went one size larger for the main one.

Chainplates are new 1/4 in SS.

Rutter.Wow. Can't say enough, here.

Runners. Dyneema.

Oversized main. An Elliott 6 has slightly less sail than me. This sail made me giddy after I used it the first time. It really lit up my boat. You might think a 13 foot boom on a boat my size is huge, but it is not a concern. The square topmain is easy to dump wind in a gust and the 5 foot traveller makes it easy. The mast never noodles with this powerful main. Even when the main is spilling a big gust, the most I had was a shudder, the tight leech kept in check.

New Genoa. Designed for light upwind.

The only fucks so far are the mast base and the centreboard trunk weeping from a stress crack, so I will add a thwart to brace the forward case.

The fuck factor figures in with splitting my ballast tank volume in two, adding pumps to empty it, sailing empty and running sail to the mast top on a fractional rig.

 

A couple more comments on the V21.

 

Used hanked jibs are cheap and free sometimes.

You can borrow some larger jibs for the day to try.

Try adding something wild like a trapeze or hiking platforms.

If you break that mast it's only 250 bucks for another one, somewhere. And we want to see the carnage. Pics or it didn't happen.

I use a semi-rigid vang that really helps keep the leech open in light air.

Upgrade the mast base. My pin wore a hole the size of a quarter on the port side. I ordered this so I can safely raise it solo.

 

hmbe27.jpg

http://www.ballengerspars.com/

 

And just for getting in the spirit, a couple carnage videos. Looking forward to see your progress on the boat.

 

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So, making a little progress, need to fill some gouges and paint the rudder, put it back together and make a tiller. Then I will really have to start thinking about a rig.

 

I have been cruising around on the used sail sites and sailboat data. Long story short, life in the used sail market would be a hell of lot easier if the rig was about 3ft taller. Again the section ( dwyer DM6 ) can be purchased by the foot. Seems like a bit of cursing and riveting could bash them together.

 

Is this such a bad idea ?

 

The only other solution I can see is finding a melges 20 or Ultimate 20 main on the cheap and getting it cut up.

 

The Venture 21 "turbo" or "OD" boats are using 130sq ft mains with a P of 21.7 ft and E of 9.7 ft, the only way to do this is with a lot of roach, most used sails are more old school pin heads.

 

If I could have 3 ish feet more p, it opens up a world of options.

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What about taking a pinehead main that is 3' or 4' too tall and having a sail maker convert it to a square top by removing the top few feet. Is that possible?

 

+1

 

A J/70 main should be had for pennies on the dollar....guys use these things for one or two regattas then sell them off...

Add a square top (cut the top off) and a few reef points and you're off to the races.

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What about taking a pinehead main that is 3' or 4' too tall and having a sail maker convert it to a square top by removing the top few feet. Is that possible?

 

I really don't know, is it ??

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What about taking a pinehead main that is 3' or 4' too tall and having a sail maker convert it to a square top by removing the top few feet. Is that possible?

 

+1

 

A J/70 main should be had for pennies on the dollar....guys use these things for one or two regattas then sell them off...

Add a square top (cut the top off) and a few reef points and you're off to the races.

 

Oddly enough, you would have thought that the used sail dealers online would be full of J70/Megles/Viper/J24/ Insert popular O/D class here sails, but weirdly they aren't, anyone know anyone...

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You could order a 30ft tall mast instead of a 27 on the Santana 2023.

 

The Santana is another old girl that can be pimped. It carries a centreboard and water ballast, with a generous rig of 262 sf upwind.

 

Check out the size of the main sail in this one.2008 WD Schock Santana 2023X

In Search of the Perfect Sport Sailboat...

 

This is an expired listing of another one, in the PNW. Santana 2023A, 1992, Anacortes, Washington, sailboat for sale from Sailing Texas, yacht for sale

 

Some ideas in this site including adding an extra stay and chainplate. Santana 2023 Mother of all Websites

 

Some views of the water ballast tank size and restoring them, if you are thinking about that direction in your ride. Santana 2023 Ballast tank problem

 

Maybe you could make your own fat head main, save some coin and post the result here for us. This vid from Sailrite shows the headboard going on.They have one for battens. Cheers

 

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What about taking a pinehead main that is 3' or 4' too tall and having a sail maker convert it to a square top by removing the top few feet. Is that possible?

+1

 

A J/70 main should be had for pennies on the dollar....guys use these things for one or two regattas then sell them off...

Add a square top (cut the top off) and a few reef points and you're off to the races.

Oddly enough, you would have thought that the used sail dealers online would be full of J70/Megles/Viper/J24/ Insert popular O/D class here sails, but weirdly they aren't, anyone know anyone...
Masthead Enterprises has a shitload of used J24 and M24 mains. Also Etchells.

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Didn't know what a Venture 21 was. Went to the Facebook page. Dude...you now owe me a bucket of eye bleach...

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Hey all, not new here just created a login for this project.

 

So, I have a venture 21 I'm working on, when your all done laughing at me I would love some help, mainly with working out the rig.

 

Here are my current thoughts.

 

1. Get the new type class sails seen here https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154532943827766&set=pcb.1828377540733188&type=3&theater.

 

The only real down side to this is cost, got a quote for $1200 for main and jib. I would like to spend less if possible.

 

2. Viper rig. Coincidentally the sail area stays the same, but you a bigger main, smaller jib sail plan which I definitely want. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154292754767766&set=oa.1789365707967705&type=3&theater.

 

A guy I know has an alu Viper rig, doesn't own a Viper, there are none in town and he wants $350 for the mast which I think is a bit steep.

 

I am assuming that I can get used Viper sails fairly easily for not too much $$$.

 

3. Extend current rig to use Viper sails, the section is available by the foot. This section was used on all models up to the V24, which I guess makes it strong enough. Would the Viper sails look like shit on a different mast ?

 

4. Something I haven't thought of ??

 

I really want a non overlapping headsail, I really want and assymetric for ease of use. Budget is fairly low.

 

Any great ideas ? Thanks

 

 

Truck, trailer hitch, flatbed, go to nearest dump!

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Thanks Gov and Plumber, for your hilarious and original comments. I humbly apologize that I can't really spring for a better boat right now, in the meantime I will continue to polish this turd fully aware that I am wasting my time and money.

 

Thanks to the more positive posters, a little introspection, research into used sails and a budget decrease because I just spent a small fortune repairing a Yorkshire terrier that got hit by a car I have new line of thinking and few more questions.

 

I believe that the target sail area is around 210 sq ft based on the current boats that race and the original specs. I can get there if keep the original rig masthead, use a pin head main that fits and a full hoist headsail with a small amount overlap, I think it will still be easy to tack as long as the clew stays forward of the shrouds, still plannng on going asym for the spin, mostly for simplicity.

 

I'm fairly confident that these sails can be found used, cheap and require no alterations.

 

My questions now relate to the standing rigging, bear with me this might get long winded.\

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/146453835@N03/31571680106/in/dateposted-public/

 

 

 

This pic shows the orginal rigging, with masthead shrouds, backstay and forestay, with a babystay and lowers terminating about 3/4 up the rig and no spreaders. It looks silly to me because of the babystay making tacking a pain in the ass.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/146453835@N03/31236414360/in/dateposted-public/

 

 

 

Here, they have clearly gone with spreaders, no baby stay albeit with a fractional rig.

 

 

 

I am thinking that I can keep the rig masthead, add spreaders, ditch the babystay.

 

1, Would that work ?

 

2, how much serious techincal thought does that require, would "it looks about right" suffice ?

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When we first got ours in 1969 it came with a fractional/baby/working jib stay rig. When my father upgraded to a masthead rig the next year to fly a genoa, the inner forestay was removed. We did not have spreaders with the upgrade. The upgrade came direct from Venture.

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Thanks, good to know, it seems that the orignale spec had the options of a staysail for sailing in breeze of huge 150% overlapper for the light. I think a 110% (approx) "allround" headsail will work.

 

Any idea why they didn't put spreaders on ? I have a set kicking around, and feel like I should put them to use.

 

Thanks

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Why no spreaders? Cost considerations? Mast did not seem too wobbly to my 9 and 10 year old eyes, but spreaders would make sense if you have them. Depending on where you are (wind speeds) a masthead rig with a blade and a maxed-out main should move the V-21 right along.

 

FWIW, I think the V-21 was one of the better looking of "The Class of Costa Mesa" trailerable boats that came out of that era. Lots of Fuglys were built back then...

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Thanks, I'm in Savannah ga. Mooring are a ways inland so it's mostly river / icw sailing, fairly light but a fairly reliable sea breeze in spring and fall which rarely gets above 15.

 

I figured cost was about the only reason to omit spreaders, since I have some.

 

Question for the experts.... does this require calculations from qualified persons regarding height, deflection, rake etc. Or will a small amount of common sense and eyeballing suffice ?

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There must be a cure for Venturbotri fly-borne disease. Please give generously, with your free amas. Unwanted Mono, can spread through contact, and be 3 times as dangerous. These diseases are more dangerous than the spread of T2Foot-itis in the early '70's. :o

 

58648d1310170498-hobie-j24-trimaran-conv

 

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/hobie-j24-trimaran-conversion-7206-8.html

 

The disease has spread to the weakened J24 fleet, so you know Melges will not be long.

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Snap is right. Done right the V 21 is cheep and fast. The boat is basically a splashed Intl. Tempest with a foot cut off the ass and a better keel. Any built prior to 1970 are lighter and have a smaller keel slot. MacGregor and Windward Yachts built over 5000 21s.

 

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