Will1073

Low Friction Ring Anarchy

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I've picked up a couple of low friction rings for a new 8:1 cascade vang. I want to attach one of the rings to a shackle to attach to the boom fitting, as close to the boom as possible. I've been playing around with brumels w/ the ring inside the eye, but am I allowed to have my bury overlap with the other bury from the other eye for the shackle? Is there a more elegant way of going about this?

 

Thanks!

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Perhaps I don't understand buy why not just use a soft shackle? Assuming the ring is large enough, a soft shackle on the boom side will not interfere with line on the other side of the ring. You don't need to have any line go around the ring on the outside. I use these things all the time and never go around the outside as shown in post #3.

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Not possible to go around the boom unfortunately.

 

Allen, how do I keep the ring from falling out of the soft shackle? Do I just lash the hell out of it with 1mm sail tie?

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Not possible to go around the boom unfortunately.

 

Allen, how do I keep the ring from falling out of the soft shackle? Do I just lash the hell out of it with 1mm sail tie?

Put the soft shackle through the center of the ring, not around the outside. The other lines will be on the opposite side of the ring so they will not interfere.

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Ouuu I like that! Thank you :)

 

I would like to open the debate now to attaching rings in general. Can I make a continuous loop and lash it closed? Or is there a more elegant solution?

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Is it possible to use a long soft shackle that is locked around a ring (in the outside groove), with the shackle section going around something like a boom?

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I generally use a luggage tag knot if trying to attach a ring to a line. Like, have an eye splice at the end of the line and luggage tag the splice to the ring.

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I generally use a luggage tag knot if trying to attach a ring to a line. Like, have an eye splice at the end of the line and luggage tag the splice to the ring.

Do the rings ever fall out?

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I generally use a luggage tag knot if trying to attach a ring to a line. Like, have an eye splice at the end of the line and luggage tag the splice to the ring.

Do the rings ever fall out?

 

No, they don't ever fall out. Here is another sketch of two ways. I have used both. One uses a large eye splice, the other small ones. The one with a large eye splice can be installed over the ring. The other you have to thread. On some I use my line shackles with the knot loop attached to the ring. That allows me to change the line that is attached to the ring. For example, for my twings, I do this to switch from the small jib twing which is on an inboard track, to the large jib twing that is on the rail track.

 

Image2.png

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And here is a photo. I don't use these rings any more.

ring.jpg

 

I like these ($5) or the expensive ones like the sketch.

419QHmpPVPL._SY355_.jpg

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Perhaps I don't understand buy why not just use a soft shackle? Assuming the ring is large enough, a soft shackle on the boom side will not interfere with line on the other side of the ring. You don't need to have any line go around the ring on the outside. I use these things all the time and never go around the outside as shown in post #3.

 

My issue with using a softie in the #3 pic was to get as close as possible to the bail with the strop still removable. As it stands, the strop is slightly long and will be shortened so the ring rests immediately below the bail.

 

But the OP can't wrap around the boom ... the point is moot.

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I see, I was thinking of the luggage tag around the circumference of the ring

Everybody thinks of always using the outside of that fancy ring. The only reason to do that is if the line is more than half the diameter of the inner hole. The other reason is to promote that idea to get people to buy your $30 ring instead of the $5 ring. I will admit that the $30 ring is better because the effective diameter is larger so the friction is less but I doubt you would notice the difference. The expensive ones do look cool. Like I said, I use both kinds. Three of the cheap ones on my twing/ inhauler setup and two of the expensive ones on the twing control line to get 2:1.

temp_twing.png

 

 

 

Perhaps I don't understand buy why not just use a soft shackle? Assuming the ring is large enough, a soft shackle on the boom side will not interfere with line on the other side of the ring. You don't need to have any line go around the ring on the outside. I use these things all the time and never go around the outside as shown in post #3.

 

My issue with using a softie in the #3 pic was to get as close as possible to the bail with the strop still removable. As it stands, the strop is slightly long and will be shortened so the ring rests immediately below the bail.

 

But the OP can't wrap around the boom ... the point is moot.

 

Nothing wrong with what you did in #3. I just was using it as a way to explain that one did not have to go around the outside of the ring. Should have just started with the sketches but they do take a bit of time to draw.

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Not looping around the circumference of the ring is fine for applications where you are only deflecting the line but in the case of a vang where the load is high and the purchase rope is being turned 180 degrees you run the risk of distorting or breaking the ring. I would try to find a way to remove that load which means one line around the outside and one line through the middle.

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Hi, what do you guys thing would ring be any good for use on top of the mast instead block for external halyard?

Thanx

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Not looping around the circumference of the ring is fine for applications where you are only deflecting the line but in the case of a vang where the load is high and the purchase rope is being turned 180 degrees you run the risk of distorting or breaking the ring. I would try to find a way to remove that load which means one line around the outside and one line through the middle.

 

That is what I was pondering, high loads equals ring distortion if luggage tagged

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I have just done a job involving luggage tagging around the outside of the ring. One was at the bridle of a backstay which saw a lot of load, then no load and a lot of flogging without any problems.

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Not looping around the circumference of the ring is fine for applications where you are only deflecting the line but in the case of a vang where the load is high and the purchase rope is being turned 180 degrees you run the risk of distorting or breaking the ring. I would try to find a way to remove that load which means one line around the outside and one line through the middle.

 

xacry.

 

in addition - if the ring fails (unlikely, I know), it'll fail 'safely' with the lines looping through each other. Using just the inner hole means the two lines will part ways upon failure of the ring.

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Allen, Thank you !!!! I am rigging a boat from scratch on a budget, learning about $5 friction rings made my day !!

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Is it possible to use a long soft shackle that is locked around a ring (in the outside groove), with the shackle section going around something like a boom?

I've done that. It wasn't hard to make. I'll see if I can find a photo.

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The $5 rings will take about 5000 pounds. If those expensive ones won't take that, don't buy them. I assume they are made of aluminum and wold bend before they break and the shape is inherently strong for the weight so I would just not worry about them parting. I don't think they are glass. But sure, tie around the outside and stitch them so the line can't slip off.

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The $5 rings are rated for 5,000lbs, but they will deform at 2,000. I pull tested one to failure using a ram and load cell.

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The $5 rings are rated for 5,000lbs, but they will deform at 2,000. I pull tested one to failure using a ram and load cell.

Good to know, thanks. Probably not an issue unless you put them somewhere with a winch in the system. The expensive ones look much stronger, which I would expect given the shape. The 20x14, which best I can determine is what I use, has a SWL or 7000 pounds. That isn't going to break from a luggage tag on a vang.

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20151022_180704000_iOS-M.jpg

 

Constrictor splice around the outside of the ring, Allen's "better soft shackle" at the ends. I was using a pair of these around the base of the stanchions on my old boat to lead the twings to the spin sheets. It worked well for that fairly low load use case. That is 1/8" dyneema and the smallest size Antal ring (the twing that ran through it was 2mm dyneema).

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20151022_180704000_iOS-M.jpg

 

Constrictor splice around the outside of the ring, Allen's "better soft shackle" at the ends. I was using a pair of these around the base of the stanchions on my old boat to lead the twings to the spin sheets. It worked well for that fairly low load use case. That is 1/8" dyneema and the smallest size Antal ring (the twing that ran through it was 2mm dyneema).

Thanks, that is what I was imagining

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Alex, can you set me up with a guide for this constrictor splice?

 

Look at posts #2 and #4 in this thread:

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=172174&p=5240944

 

"As to the bottom photo - constrictor style - I think that particular technique was invented by rule69 on SA, at least I first saw him doing it - it's simple. you take the dyneema around the ring, and where they meet you insert one end into the hollow center of the other piece and thread it again right around the ring still in the hollow center, and pull it out of the center just a little ways before it meets itself. and then do an end to end splice to complete the loop."

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Does anyone see any great issue with something like this? Will be using 3/16 soft shackle and new sail tie to lash it together. I know the angles are crap for the integrity of the spectra, but it's honestly overkill for a 8:1 Shark vang.

post-123372-0-89687900-1480466916_thumb.jpg

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Not looping around the circumference of the ring is fine for applications where you are only deflecting the line but in the case of a vang where the load is high and the purchase rope is being turned 180 degrees you run the risk of distorting or breaking the ring. I would try to find a way to remove that load which means one line around the outside and one line through the middle.

 

That was my thoughts as well, but see Ronstan rings and load ratings if used in this way.

What scares me is that if they break the line is not captured.

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I am pretty sure they are metal and will bend before they break. They are also more than strong enough for any vang application. Even the 5000 pound rings I linked that bend at 2000 pounds would have a 5:1 safety factor at 1000 pounds and an 8:1 three stage vang and a 50 pound pull is only 400 pounds. You should worry about something else.

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Does anyone see any great issue with something like this? Will be using 3/16 soft shackle and new sail tie to lash it together. I know the angles are crap for the integrity of the spectra, but it's honestly overkill for a 8:1 Shark vang.

 

I'd be a little worried about the sharp edges on that tang.

 

Is this a 'Shark 24' ? Main looks loose foot ?

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Does anyone see any great issue with something like this? Will be using 3/16 soft shackle and new sail tie to lash it together. I know the angles are crap for the integrity of the spectra, but it's honestly overkill for a 8:1 Shark vang.

I'd be a little worried about the sharp edges on that tang.

 

Is this a 'Shark 24' ? Main looks loose foot ?

Agreed. It is a Shark 24, but the foot of the main depends on the sail maker. My Norths have a bolt rope.

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We call them assholes.

This is the joke that explains why.

The first grade teacher was doing a lesson on perception.

Taste, smell, texture, sight, and all that stuff.

At one point she had the kids tast things with their eyes closed.

They did really well until she gave them honey flavor Lifesaver candies.

This really stumped them, so she offered a clue.

" It's something you have probably heard Mummy call Daddy."

A cry came from the back of the room!

"Spit'em out kids! They're assholes !!!"

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I did this on my Shields using 3mm Marlow D12 Max with R07.05 Antal Rings. It has so far held up to 30 knots of wind. The only rings that were the smallest were the end that went around the mast tang which had to pass a line with cover on it and the ring that attached to the boom which had to be the next size up because of the outside diameter of the soft shackle. I had the setup on photobucket however it was covered in another thread as well. Here is how it was attached to the mast:

post-8534-0-81428500-1456880924_thumb.jp

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Anyone ever used these for the spinnaker pole end fitting on an asym tack line? Thinking about using one on a loop, and luggage tagging it to the pad eye, or maybe just around the pole so the pad eye isn't under load. . Worried it might be to much friction for adjustments when its breezy.? This will be for a J-92.

Thanks!

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Anyone ever used these for the spinnaker pole end fitting on an asym tack line? Thinking about using one on a loop, and luggage tagging it to the pad eye, or maybe just around the pole so the pad eye isn't under load. . Worried it might be to much friction for adjustments when its breezy.? This will be for a J-92.

Thanks!

Works just fine for a tackline - especially uncovered Dyneema

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Awesome, Thank You sir.

Anyone ever used these for the spinnaker pole end fitting on an asym tack line? Thinking about using one on a loop, and luggage tagging it to the pad eye, or maybe just around the pole so the pad eye isn't under load. . Worried it might be to much friction for adjustments when its breezy.? This will be for a J-92.

Thanks!

Works just fine for a tackline - especially uncovered Dyneema

 

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Want to have your mind blown, check out this snatch block with an integrated friction ring. Perfect for 2:1 inhaulers and likes:

mw-bb4012.jpg

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i am quite impressed with the ropeye lineup of products. I was looking for screwable through deck low friction rings, but found they have some other good products too! I have no interest in this company except that they solve several of my questions with their products.

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Want to have your mind blown, check out this snatch block with an integrated friction ring. Perfect for 2:1 inhaulers and likes:

mw-bb4012.jpg

Yes very nice. Antal makes really good stuff

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A somewhat new use of low friction rings is that as sheave in a block: the low friction ring is the used in a dynamic way, it rotates around an axis of a dyneema loop.

Inoblocks (http://ino-block.com/?lang=en) makes blocks this way: very stron, very lightweight.

I have been experimenting with this idea the last weeks.

It is amazing how this performs: Extreme strength for very low weight, something like 32 grams for a block with na estimated WL well above some 1500kg.

This is a picture of the product I have made several of the last weeks:

IMG_0208.JPG

 

Same in action with Some 400kg load through a 1:8 tackle:

IMG_0092.JPG

 

Similar but different "rope-axis" block with low friction ring used dynamically was introduced recently by RopEye:

IMG_0190.PNG

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Want to have your mind blown, check out this snatch block with an integrated friction ring. Perfect for 2:1 inhaulers and likes:

mw-bb4012.jpg

 

Those are cool! I've been thinking about how to get a low friction ring attached to my snap shackle blocks for twings with a very short lead (so that I can pull the twings close to the deck). That's a very nice but somewhat expensive solution ($130 for that block from Antal).

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Cool thread. Sunday- Why do you need the carbon piece. Does it prevent the line from jumping off the friction ring? I love the way dyneema and friction rings are making really old technology cutting edge again, and doable for low budget DIYers.

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Want to have your mind blown, check out this snatch block with an integrated friction ring. Perfect for 2:1 inhaulers and likes:

mw-bb4012.jpg

 

Those are cool! I've been thinking about how to get a low friction ring attached to my snap shackle blocks for twings with a very short lead (so that I can pull the twings close to the deck). That's a very nice but somewhat expensive solution ($130 for that block from Antal).

This is NOT a low friction ring, it is a classic sheave with a bearing on steel axle.

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Want to have your mind blown, check out this snatch block with an integrated friction ring. Perfect for 2:1 inhaulers and likes:

mw-bb4012.jpg

Those are cool! I've been thinking about how to get a low friction ring attached to my snap shackle blocks for twings with a very short lead (so that I can pull the twings close to the deck). That's a very nice but somewhat expensive solution ($130 for that block from Antal).

This is NOT a low friction ring, it is a classic sheave with a bearing on steel axle.

 

The sheet is through a classic sheave but the twing line is through a low friction ring. I see very little advantage over just a round section carabiner. There just isn't that much friction in a twing situation because the sheet deflection is low.

 

This one because it doesn't have parts that rust and it has a round cross section for low friction.

ptz-0122_1.jpg

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I've used the biner, they work. I don't like the sharp knurled part bouncing around on my decks and they are kind of bulky (but functionality per gram is high). The Antal block in #46 is kind of a biner but lighter.

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I've used the biner, they work. I don't like the sharp knurled part bouncing around on my decks and they are kind of bulky (but functionality per gram is high). The Antal block in #46 is kind of a biner but lighter.

I guess you could tape the knurled part. In case anyone is thinking of trying this, I have looked at tons of carabiners and the ones I posted are the best. They are some kind of charity thing but that is the only way to get them since Petzl redesigned the line and put a bunch of sharp edges that increase friction on the standard one with the same name. These blue ones are still available but not clear to me how long they will be. Grab some if you are thinking of trying them because there are just not others that work as well.

 

I highly recommend the locking kind because I used to use ones without the lock and they would grab things. Once my jib sheet was clipped to my lifeline.

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Saw these on Maverick before crossing the pond. They said they work nicely, just need a more thumb-friendly gate.

 

21807-8360372.jpg

 

HW

How different is that from using a wire gate carabiner? It won't accidentally catch on other rigging, the weight is probably not much different than the smaller ones and it is far more fiddly.

BL.jpg

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Saw these on Maverick before crossing the pond. They said they work nicely, just need a more thumb-friendly gate.

 

21807-8360372.jpg

 

HW

How different is that from using a wire gate carabiner? It won't accidentally catch on other rigging, the weight is probably not much different than the smaller ones and it is far more fiddly.

BL.jpg

 

 

The Antal hook is taking the load with the Line on the dog bone and the gate just keeps the line in the low friction ring. the carabiner is taking the load and no way as strong and they catch on every thing

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I think it's something like using a normal shackled block versus something like a Karver or the Inoblock. There is space between the load and the soft portion of the load bearing bit. But the biggest thing for me would be that there is a 0% chance of anything else clipping into the bail of the Antal, where accidentally clipping into a wire gate is relatively common (as Allen has apparently experienced).

 

Climbing 'biners are absolutely a good choice, I just don't think they would be good enough for extended offshore use.

 

HW

 

 

Saw these on Maverick before crossing the pond. They said they work nicely, just need a more thumb-friendly gate.

 

21807-8360372.jpg

 

HW

How different is that from using a wire gate carabiner? It won't accidentally catch on other rigging, the weight is probably not much different than the smaller ones and it is far more fiddly.

BL.jpg

 

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I proposed a particular climbing carabiner now let me say how I picked it in case you want to try a different one. There are three things to consider.

1) The shape: The part of the carabiner that the rope goes over should be a perfect semi-circle. Any flat sections will increase friction. The larger the radius the better. This is where the low friction rings have an advantage but it is not a serious issue unless the radius gets small compared to the line.

2) Rust: Take a magnet to the store and make sure nothing sticks hard. Most carabiners I tried failed this test.

3) Locking: There are a couple of different lock mechanisms but I found the screw lock versions passed the rust test best.

 

The one I use was a standard Petzl item but they changed the design and the shape fails the test for the new design. The hera climb4life supports woman's cancer health and their carabiner is of the original Petzl design. I assume they get some of the profits but really have no idea. I just know it comes in a feminine friendly color but passes the three tests above.

 

I like the idea of some of the soft versions shown above but for my boat, the climbing ones just work too well to take the time to replace them.

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A somewhat new use of low friction rings is that as sheave in a block: the low friction ring is the used in a dynamic way, it rotates around an axis of a dyneema loop.

Inoblocks (http://ino-block.com/?lang=en) makes blocks this way: very stron, very lightweight.

I have been experimenting with this idea the last weeks.

It is amazing how this performs: Extreme strength for very low weight, something like 32 grams for a block with na estimated WL well above some 1500kg.

This is a picture of the product I have made several of the last weeks:

IMG_0208.JPG

 

Same in action with Some 400kg load through a 1:8 tackle:

IMG_0092.JPG

 

Similar but different "rope-axis" block with low friction ring used dynamically was introduced recently by RopEye:

IMG_0190.PNG

It would be interesting to know: Have you done and data on the difference in friction between this approach vs the typical low friction setup - can you share?

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This ("my") use of the low friction ring is totally different from the typical ("normal") use.

The proposed block totally acts as a normal block with bearing.

Check also the inoblock website; they did some interesting tests showing efficiency increasing under heavier loads.

http://ino-block.com/?lang=en

Quit some Vendée Globe racers are using them, here mainsheet on Safran:

CuJx8TrUkAATahC.jpg

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Saw these on Maverick before crossing the pond. They said they work nicely, just need a more thumb-friendly gate.

 

21807-8360372.jpg

 

HW

How different is that from using a wire gate carabiner? It won't accidentally catch on other rigging, the weight is probably not much different than the smaller ones and it is far more fiddly.

BL.jpg

 

 

The Antal hook is taking the load with the Line on the dog bone and the gate just keeps the line in the low friction ring. the carabiner is taking the load and no way as strong and they catch on every thing

 

TAPE THE GATE CLOSED!!!! Lost a regatta because the dang thing had burs on the gate and the spin sheet got caught on the burrs during a douse coming into a close to shore mark. 1 and only time I have ever cut a line, under duress, on a boat....

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This ("my") use of the low friction ring is totally different from the typical ("normal") use.

The proposed block totally acts as a normal block with bearing.

Check also the inoblock website; they did some interesting tests showing efficiency increasing under heavier loads.http://ino-block.com/?lang=en

Quit some Vendée Globe racers are using them, here mainsheet on Safran:CuJx8TrUkAATahC.jpg

wow!

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Want to have your mind blown, check out this snatch block with an integrated friction ring. Perfect for 2:1 inhaulers and likes:mw-bb4012.jpg

 

Those are cool! I've been thinking about how to get a low friction ring attached to my snap shackle blocks for twings with a very short lead (so that I can pull the twings close to the deck). That's a very nice but somewhat expensive solution ($130 for that block from Antal).

This is NOT a low friction ring, it is a clas+1sic sheave with a bearing on steel axle.

The sheet is through a classic sheave but the twing line is through a low friction ring. I see very little advantage over just a round section carabiner. There just isn't that much friction in a twing situation because the sheet deflection is low.

 

This one because it doesn't have parts that rust and it has a round cross section for low friction.

ptz-0122_1.jpg

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We used low friction rings on the twin backstays of a tp52 on the way to Hawaii. No issues at all. Light weight, compact and effective.

post-24301-0-17665500-1483772669_thumb.jpg

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Thanks for the explanation sailby. In your testing did you compare the friction with a normaly block?

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Not sure who you were asking but I have data so will reply. I did quite a bit of testing on these and you can read it on my website here: L-36.com. There is a table at the end of the article with the measurements. Basically it depends on four things. The diameter of the ring, the roundness of the cross section, the angle of deflection, and the material of the rope. The difference between the large low friction ring and the carabiner I posted was a few percent. For a twing, the friction on Amsteel would be negligible. On the other hand, with a 8:1 cascade, the effective mechanical advantage would be reduced to 4.6:1, almost like the loss of one stage.

 

Allen

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Allen: I was asking SySunday but thanks for the response anyway. BTW I really appreciate all the effort you put into L-36.com and here. I have done a ton of stuff using your how-to and all of it has worked great. If you are ever at the south end of the Chesapeake and need any help, or a beer, PM me.

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Allen: I was asking SySunday but thanks for the response anyway. BTW I really appreciate all the effort you put into L-36.com and here. I have done a ton of stuff using your how-to and all of it has worked great. If you are ever at the south end of the Chesapeake and need any help, or a beer, PM me.

@Mizzmo. I appreciate the kind words. Thank you.

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I think it's something like using a normal shackled block versus something like a Karver or the Inoblock. There is space between the load and the soft portion of the load bearing bit. But the biggest thing for me would be that there is a 0% chance of anything else clipping into the bail of the Antal, where accidentally clipping into a wire gate is relatively common (as Allen has apparently experienced).

 

Climbing 'biners are absolutely a good choice, I just don't think they would be good enough for extended offshore use.

 

HW

 

 

Saw these on Maverick before crossing the pond. They said they work nicely, just need a more thumb-friendly gate.

 

21807-8360372.jpg

 

HW

How different is that from using a wire gate carabiner? It won't accidentally catch on other rigging, the weight is probably not much different than the smaller ones and it is far more fiddly.

BL.jpg

 

 

 

I've been using these for certain things for >20 years. They are good for somethings and stupid for others.

 

  • No corrosion. If the anodizing gets worn (clipped direct to sharp SS) it will start to get ugly in ~ 5 years. If they get stiff, 15 minutes in diluted CLR fixes that (not all acids are aluminum-safe--CLR is) without leaving a mark. Good for all aluminum hardware.
  • Clipping onto stuff. A well know problem. the trick is to understand this and have them facing the correct direction (not always possible).
  • Strength. Obviously they have a ~ 1500-pound WLL. Like everything, you've got to know your loads.

For the most part, I keep them in the cockpit, along with a few 10-30 sections of rope and use them for jury rigging and odd trimming adjustments. Lifting the dinghy. Kayak painters. I have used them for twings and barber haulers when in the development stage, but the final evolution always seems to use a compact block.

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I use the locking ones on my jib sheets when off the wind rather than moving the cars. It is an easy clip or unclip compared to resetting the car. In that case, the ability to remove it completely is a real plus. On the non locking ones, even if you face them away from whatever you are afraid of clipping to they sometimes turn over or clip to something else.

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Ciao boys,

 

I've just found this forum page. From METS show, Ropeye has been developing some new low friction blocks with Lockbones. Here there are the first set of photos of the new:

 

U-Block Range

 

U1 SWL 1t - MBL 2t 10gr

U2 SWL 1.5t - MBL 3t 20 gr

U3 SWL 2.5t - MBL 5t 50gr

U4 SWL 4t - MBL 8t 110 gr

 

H-BlockRange

 

H1 SWL 3.5 t - MBL 7t 50 gr

H2 SWL 5 t - MBL 10t 110 gr

 

Please give us some feedbacks!!!

 

 

 

post-129708-0-09813400-1488819547_thumb.jpg

post-129708-0-37748700-1488819550_thumb.jpg

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Slightly unrelated (okay very unrelated) but has anyone been working on a one-handed soft shackle? Allen?

 

Could be a revolution...

 

HW

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Slightly unrelated (okay very unrelated) but has anyone been working on a one-handed soft shackle? Allen?

 

Could be a revolution...

 

HW

Depends on the application. I did a double soft shackle that could be worked one handed. It was basically to attach a sheet to a clew when the sail was flying and doing it with one hand. I lost the need for the application so have not used it or talked about it much. It was tested in the Brion Toss testing and went through many generations to get it as strong as it is.

http://L-36.com/soft_shackle_8.php

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The second block (the h block?) what keeps the H in place when the system isn't under tension/flogging?

Ciao Will,

 

Here you see, to keep extremely light the piece we thought to give a "lock" shape in the part of the part of the frame where the rope is passing. In addition in the packaging is shown how you can lock the frame with a lashing rope.

 

Have a look

post-129708-0-62269300-1488877819_thumb.jpg

post-129708-0-35388200-1488877824_thumb.jpg

post-129708-0-00311400-1488877829_thumb.jpg

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Damn nice stuff.

 

What is the difference in U or H loop, not strength weight, but idea of useful situations ?

 

Pro and con of each one ?

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Thanks Ropey, Very interesting. BTW, i will get back to you soon about your email to the Netherlands. I just found it in my spambox. Thanks for the fast reply!

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You could just do what most do and use a regular block and shackle for the first part of the vang cascade as it takes very little space. Same thing for backstay cascades we use a wire block for the first run then rings after that. Simple and nice

That was my initial plan, Turd. I ended up making a soft shackle and lashing it shut around the low friction ring. Maybe not the most kosher thing, but the loads this bang sees are nowhere near the max load of 1/4" Amsteel

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Damn nice stuff.

 

What is the difference in U or H loop, not strength weight, but idea of useful situations ?

 

Pro and con of each one ?

Hi Leo, just to ask are you THE Voorneveld Leo, if yes give me your email. Thanks, J

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Damn nice stuff.

 

What is the difference in U or H loop, not strength weight, but idea of useful situations ?

 

Pro and con of each one ?

About your question, the main different that we thought during the design of the blocks are:

 

U block can manage different angle of loading easily then H. H is made more for runners/backstays (High) loads applications where the angles are not changing drastically.

U block is more dsg to be attached on our loops etc.

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How much do those hard angles on the "lock" carbon degrade the strength of the attachment loop? Wouldn't it be better for strength and longevity to radius off those edges so they're not as hard on the fibers of the line?

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Ropeye, (J)

 

that is the answer to my question, perfect.

 

Yep, I am that Leov. So that means the boss has the time for this, thought it was something from the marketing department :)

 

I did pb your my email, its the same for over 15 years now...

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The second block (the h block?) what keeps the H in place when the system isn't under tension/flogging?

 

Ciao Will,

 

Here you see, to keep extremely light the piece we thought to give a "lock" shape in the part of the part of the frame where the rope is passing. In addition in the packaging is shown how you can lock the frame with a lashing rope.

 

Have a look

RopEye, interesting!

But what is patented in your product as prototypes of the same have been presented in the public domain already in December and January, for example as in post #47 in this topic?

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The second block (the h block?) what keeps the H in place when the system isn't under tension/flogging?

Ciao Will,

 

Here you see, to keep extremely light the piece we thought to give a "lock" shape in the part of the part of the frame where the rope is passing. In addition in the packaging is shown how you can lock the frame with a lashing rope.

 

Have a look

RopEye, interesting!

But what is patented in your product as prototypes of the same have been presented in the public domain already in December and January, for example as in post #47 in this topic?

 

 

 

 

I get the patents(new materials and all), but you can see many of these things, thimbles in cascades, dowgbones, lashing mechanisms, etc on an old square rigger like the Balclutha at the SF Maritime Museum

 

What's old is new again!

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You could just do what most do and use a regular block and shackle for the first part of the vang cascade as it takes very little space. Same thing for backstay cascades we use a wire block for the first run then rings after that. Simple and nice

That was my initial plan, Turd. I ended up making a soft shackle and lashing it shut around the low friction ring. Maybe not the most kosher thing, but the loads this bang sees are nowhere near the max load of 1/4" Amsteel

Not only for space but the first cascade sees the highest load and hence the most friction loss if you were to use a ring. Main reason we used a block on the backstay for the first purchase.

 

Rock on i love the rings we seem to use them more and more.

But it also sees the least amount of movement. That was my reasoning at least.... I went with two rings and a 4:1 fiddle block setup to overcome the friction loss of the two rings.

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I don't think it matters that the load is higher creating more friction. I really think friction is linear with load so while the friction is higher, so is the load so the net efficiency of the block will be the same regardless of where it is in the system. The system is a multiplication of the efficiencies of the parts and A * B = B * A so doesn't matter. Perhaps another way to think of it is that while the friction is higher, the travel is lower so the net lost is the same. The fiddle block is a good way to reduce the travel needed as these cascade systems can demand a lot of travel.

 

Allen

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Ropeye is really cool stuff. used some on my J35 here in the philippines. and a whole lot of them in our newish Mills43. great product.

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@Ropeye

 

Can i get a product catalog/price list? I currently work with a small repair/refit shop, we're looking to expand our business into rigging services.

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How much do those hard angles on the "lock" carbon degrade the strength of the attachment loop? Wouldn't it be better for strength and longevity to radius off those edges so they're not as hard on the fibers of the line?

Ciao Leo,

 

Yes you are right! We have already test some fillet edges and they are working well! But to improve even more the loop should be reinforced (cover) in these areas etc.

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