dachopper

Sydney to Hobart 2017

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8 minutes ago, Rushman said:

I thought the pit bull changed course after WOXI had started to tack to make it look worse

No paint was swapped, protest dismissed

Nice spin you put on that.  "I thought  ..." doesn't cut it in the room.

No paint is required to be swapped for a protest.

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looks like the shift is happening, the indian up to 22.5 , the angle is helping for sure. Oats at 19.5 at similar angle, and BJ at 14.9 tight reaching .

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20 minutes ago, trt131 said:

Com was not forced to dip, they chose to dip to block the lee bow tack.  A standard move, but it did not stop WO from completing her tack.

Comanche started to take avoiding action simultaneous with WOXI initiating their tack because JS knew WOXI couldnt keep clear.  Here is a screen cap of the tack and this is the moment where COM starts to duck WOXI to avoid a collision.  Only an Aussie homer would think this was clean

WOXIFoul.jpg

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I hope that WO is not pinged for that move, I just want their arses kicked fair and square.

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I don't know who's at fault but consider: 

Rags OCS in 2012 

Alive getting drinking water taken out to them. 

Scallywag missing that mark in HK 

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10 minutes ago, Mid said:

BJ has snookered themselves inshore

Addis has them changing course on the right side as though he is drunk at the wheel and the rhumb line is an electric fence. Weird.

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7 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

I don't know who's at fault but consider: 

Rags OCS in 2012 

Alive getting drinking water taken out to them. 

Scallywag missing that mark in HK 

So?  Does that mean it was not a P/S?

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3 minutes ago, random said:

So?  Does that mean it was not a P/S?

It means the jury will be too scared to act. 

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Just now, SCANAS said:

It means the jury will be too scared to act. 

Don't care as long as the infringed boat beats them by hours anyway.  Or will WO "break something" again?

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I dont think many of the posters here have watched much match racing and the moves that are standard and used all the time.  As soon as the port tack boat completes her tack the she becomes right of way.  Usually Clear ahead, clear astern or if overlapped windward boat keeps clear.  This is not a port starboard incident.  Both Richo and Jimmy have done heaps of match racing and both were aware of what was happening.  No incident.

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no way WOXI was clear ahead .

 

however Comanche is clear ahead now :D

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1 minute ago, trt131 said:

I dont think many of the posters here have watched much match racing and the moves that are standard and used all the time.  As soon as the port tack boat completes her tack the she becomes right of way.  Usually Clear ahead, clear astern or if overlapped windward boat keeps clear.  This is not a port starboard incident.  Both Richo and Jimmy have done heaps of match racing and both were aware of what was happening.  No incident.

Clearly the team on Comanche including Jimmy don't agree with you.! They protested notwithstanding the abuse they hurled at WOXI. Your last sentence is a contradiction, both aware of what was happening but you make no mention of Comanche flying a protest flag. 

 

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2 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Clearly the team on Comanche including Jimmy don't agree with you.! They protested notwithstanding the abuse they hurled at WOXI. Your last sentence is a contradiction, both aware of what was happening but you make no mention of Comanche flying a protest flag. 

 

I don't know where you race but I thought it was pretty polite! 

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Just now, terrafirma said:

Clearly the team on Comanche including Jimmy don't agree with you.! They protested notwithstanding the abuse they hurled at WOXI. Your last sentence is a contradiction, both aware of what was happening but you make no mention of Comanche flying a protest flag. 

 

Terrafirma, I am not sure that you should be commenting on the rules.  A few posts back you asked if WO had just done their turns when she lost some speed.  Even Opti kids know that penalty turns have to be taken immediately not and hour later.

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7 minutes ago, trt131 said:

I dont think many of the posters here have watched much match racing and the moves that are standard and used all the time.  As soon as the port tack boat completes her tack the she becomes right of way.  Usually Clear ahead, clear astern or if overlapped windward boat keeps clear.  This is not a port starboard incident.  Both Richo and Jimmy have done heaps of match racing and both were aware of what was happening.  No incident.

Does she even need to complete the tack or just change course through the wind? 

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just a couple of fellas having a bit of fun - thats all.

looks like happy hour out there at the moment - both over 20Knots

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _    _)  _)

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4 minutes ago, trt131 said:

Terrafirma, I am not sure that you should be commenting on the rules.  A few posts back you asked if WO had just done their turns when she lost some speed.  Even Opti kids know that penalty turns have to be taken immediately not and hour later.

When I looked a few years ago in the SI's it makes mention about inot taking turns in the harbour & I don't know which buoy(s) are part of that rule. 

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5 minutes ago, trt131 said:

Terrafirma, I am not sure that you should be commenting on the rules.  A few posts back you asked if WO had just done their turns when she lost some speed.  Even Opti kids know that penalty turns have to be taken immediately not and hour later.

Wasn't commenting on the rules. Just your stupid comments. Comanche is flying a red flag and protested. 

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2 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Infotrack will run down Black Jack. She is gaining and sailing faster. Will be interesting to see if she can also run down Wild Oats?

Oats showing @ 18k currently :mellow:

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My 2cents

Woxi was a cross then comm had big lift.

Woxi very slow tack

Camera showed comm going up to miss it.

You can overlay the expidition tracks to prove it.

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12 minutes ago, richiec said:

Old Ichi Ban (Envy) is a mile ahead of new Ichi... :ph34r: (Jaysus - tracker all over the shop from one re-fresh to the next!) 

Which is the old IB? The new boat sailing very well

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Envy Scooters is the 'old' Ichi Ban TP52 (not really old, as it was one of the newest TP's in the AUS fleet anyway). Barry Cuneo. Good bloke and team. Nice step up from the Melges 32! 

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29 minutes ago, random said:

Don't care as long as the infringed boat beats them by hours anyway.  Or will WO "break something" again?

Are you on crack

you can’t fake a blown up mainsail and why the fuck would they fake a keel issue if they were beating the current record holder and on Track to make on themselves. 

Shut the fuck up

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1 minute ago, Wildboats said:

How old is OATS X ??

in front of Ichi, right up the arse of Beau Geste and doing 19.8 !!

Should be in front of Ichi it's 66 feet long.! Beau Geste was in front of Wizard and now well behind, something might have happened. 80 feet vs 70 for wizard and 66 for Oats

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23 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Clearly the team on Comanche including Jimmy don't agree with you.! They protested notwithstanding the abuse they hurled at WOXI. Your last sentence is a contradiction, both aware of what was happening but you make no mention of Comanche flying a protest flag. 

 

You protest to force the RC to make a decision that may/ may not go your way. It may have been a 50/50 call at the time, but by protesting, they force the RC to make a call. Happens all the time in Match racing. Sometimes the call goes your way, sometimes it doesn't. But just because you are the one who protests, does not necessarily mean you are correct. 

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Just now, sclarke said:

You protest to force the RC to make a decision that may/ may not go your way. It may have been a 50/50 call at the time, but by protesting, they force the RC to make a call. Happens all the time in Match racing. Sometimes the call goes your way, sometimes it doesn't. But just because you are the one who protests, does not necessarily mean you are correct. 

Yes well aware of that. Brought this up in relation to the incident which someone else had quoted as being a nothing incident. If it was a nothing incident I must be watching a different replay. 

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2 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Should be in front of Ichi it's 66 feet long.! Beau Geste was in front of Wizard and now well behind, something might have happened. 80 feet vs 70 for wizard and 66 for Oats

oh yeah, new Ichi's a 52 

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4 minutes ago, richiec said:

Envy Scooters is the 'old' Ichi Ban TP52 (not really old, as it was one of the newest TP's in the AUS fleet anyway). Barry Cuneo. Good bloke and team. Nice step up from the Melges 32! 

Cheers the old boat was very fast too. 

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5 minutes ago, MR PLOW 270 said:
38 minutes ago, random said:

Don't care as long as the infringed boat beats them by hours anyway.  Or will WO "break something" again?

Are you on crack

you can’t fake a blown up mainsail and why the fuck would they fake a keel issue if they were beating the current record holder and on Track to make on themselves. 

Shut the fuck up

Are you infering that they deliberately broke something?  That's not cool.

Are you on crack mate?

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9 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Should be in front of Ichi it's 66 feet long.! Beau Geste was in front of Wizard and now well behind, something might have happened. 80 feet vs 70 for wizard and 66 for Oats

Beau Geste just isn't that fast. Her owner and crew are really good yet that boat doesn't seem to go like one would expect from a bigger more powerful platform than a VO70. 

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57 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

I don't know who's at fault but consider: 

Rags OCS in 2012 

Alive getting drinking water taken out to them. 

Scallywag missing that mark in HK 

Scan is the common denominator none of those the subject of a competitor protest or is that wrong?

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1 hour ago, trt131 said:

As soon as the port tack boat completes her tack the she becomes right of way. 

Exactly..and the point of contention. 

If that was a completed lee bow tack before Jimmy took evasive action (to weather to stall boat) to avoid giving Richo a Prodder Prostrate examination I will go fuck myself. 

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Now running 3 tabs (wanted to see where visit "SEEATOH" was (I once worked with a bloke from the Brit Isles who taught me how to pronounce that, as an aside the man was "Johnie on the spot" with a torch at 911 world trade, good on ya Terry).

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Rule 13.  C started to take evasive action while WO was tacking and had no rights.

Rule 15. If WO succeeded in acquiring right of way, she needed to give C room (and opportunity) to keep clear.

Even if Rule 10 was not broken, there are other rules invoked if the tack is too close.

In the video C initially dipped slightly, this looked like he was thinking about a duck but decided not to.  Looks to me like a duck was the best option given that WO looked to have room for a close cross.  If C wanted to make more trouble for WO they would have gone up slightly to make the angle appear worse for them.

When the duck looked risky for C because WO had slowed entering a tack, C went back up at which time they had limited room and opportunity to do more than they did.  These are big boats and that move was ok for a Laser but not for Maxi's, too risky and WO needs to be penalised.  This was the start of an Ocean Race and the cost of both boats being damaged is an unacceptable risk.

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54 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Should be in front of Ichi it's 66 feet long.! Beau Geste was in front of Wizard and now well behind, something might have happened. 80 feet vs 70 for wizard and 66 for Oats

 

42 minutes ago, Captain Jack Sparrow said:

Beau Geste just isn't that fast. Her owner and crew are really good yet that boat doesn't seem to go like one would expect from a bigger more powerful platform than a VO70. 

 

True, Wizard(Groupama 4) was also a wicked quick 70 on this point of sail. Nico would always comment how it had a 1.5-2 knots advantage over the Botin Camper boat in reaching conditions. Who designed BG? Oh yeah.... Botin..

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3 minutes ago, random said:

Rule 13.  C started to take evasive action while WO was tacking and had no rights.

Rule 15. If WO succeeded in acquiring right of way, she needed to give C room (and opportunity) to keep clear.

Even if Rule 10 was not broken, there are other rules invoked if the tack is too close.

In the video C initially dipped slightly, this looked like he was thinking about a duck but decided not to.  Looks to me like a duck was the best option given that WO looked to have room for a close cross.  If C wanted to make more trouble for WO they would have gone up slightly to make the angle appear worse for them.

When the duck looked risky for C because WO had slowed entering a tack, C went back up at which time they had limited room and opportunity to do more than they did.  These are big boats and that move was ok for a Laser but not for Maxi's, too risky and WO needs to be penalised.  This was the start of an Ocean Race and the cost of both boats being damaged is an unacceptable risk.

Usually when you're protecting against a leebow you put the bow down and force the other guy to tack a little too early, this allows the boat being lee-bowed to 'cheat'  a little in terms of weather gauge as well as get the boat rumbling and ready for high mode once the other guy has committed to the tack. 

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I know it's not in the rules but what Richo did should be called a professional foul.
Both line honors contenders, $50m+ worth of kit, not even at the turning mark and a typical sloppy washing machine under North Head.

Not the time or place to try that new move you worked up on the Match Racing game console. Unless of course he did really want the Indians prod on board?

 

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2 minutes ago, ASP said:

Usually when you're protecting against a leebow you put the bow down and force the other guy to tack a little too early, this allows the boat being lee-bowed to 'cheat'  a little in terms of weather gauge as well as get the boat rumbling and ready for high mode once the other guy has committed to the tack. 

Understood.  The difference here is that it appeared that WO was going to be able to cross (to me anyway), making a dip from C appear to take pressure off WO instead of the other way around.

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3 minutes ago, paps49 said:

I know it's not in the rules but what Richo did should be called a professional foul.
Both line honors contenders, $50m+ worth of kit, not even at the turning mark and a typical sloppy washing machine under North Head.

Not the time or place to try that new move you worked up on the Match Racing game console. Unless of course he did really want the Indians prod on board?

 

If it was intentional I think it would have been a lot slicker.  

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I think WOXI were expecting a bit of courtesy, considering they had come from well behind & were faster, Spithill said fuck no, knowing he could avoid if he had to & you saw WOXI's sloppy tack. 

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Be interesting to see the variation in setups in the 52 fleet. Whether some are on FRO's and higher or MHO's and lower or a soft luff A5 etc...

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Guys, just want to thank the Euro PGA for blocking our ability to view the stream on YT.  For fucks sake how many race starts does the word actually care about?  Sailor girl with her (sorry) moronic audio was worthless but well intended.  Argh.  Yes I know I'll get shit, but don't care.  Can I just pls find the start of the race??  

 

 

 

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Just now, manicsh said:

Guys, just want to thank the Euro PGA for blocking our ability to view the stream on YT.  For fucks sake how many race starts does the word actually care about?  Sailor girl with her (sorry) moronic audio was worthless but well intended.  Argh.  Yes I know I'll get shit, but don't care.  Can I just pls find the start of the race??  

Good luck the coverage was the poorest I have viewed in a long time, they just dont seem to get it at 7, sailor girl does well with limited resources and actually shows the bigger bois how a coverage should be attempted...

 

 

 

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Now that I have the time (Dr Who Christmas special was dividing attention a bit) when it comes to disparaging live coverage, perspective counts for something, sitting here in the Pacific Northwest of "the Trump States of America" (frankly surprised the little orange troll hasn't suggested the name change yet) ANY coverage was astounding! & in some respects the timing was splendid, right after the traditional dinner I showed my father in law the start of the race, (he was wearing an Artemis hat, he thinks the Swedish fiance of my nephew is the cat's meow, I do too actually). I hope the best for my beloved father in law, & I could not think of anything better for him to watch while he is undergoing kidney dialysis than a great yacht race.

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32 minutes ago, lydia said:

No contact, no foul!

Isn't what how the RRs is applied now days.

No.

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1 hour ago, Ozee Adventure said:

Maybe WOXI is now being paid by Chanel 7 to give us something to talk about for 24 hours.

I was wondering that too...... now Mark, no swearing but make it interesting.

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26 minutes ago, bayboy said:

Dont think it will matter If comanche runs away with this, Better hope for the winds to drop otherwise it will be Comanche by how far...

I'd like to see the new owners get what they paid for.

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23 minutes ago, manicsh said:

Guys, just want to thank the Euro PGA for blocking our ability to view the stream on YT.  For fucks sake how many race starts does the word actually care about?  Sailor girl with her (sorry) moronic audio was worthless but well intended.  Argh.  Yes I know I'll get shit, but don't care.  Can I just pls find the start of the race??  

 

 

 

+1... anyone with a link to the replay of the start?

 

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Wizard leading handicap, the way the wind is shaping up, it might stay that way until the finish, Big Indian dependent. Any previous boats won overall b2b with different owners?

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2 hours ago, richiec said:

Envy Scooters is the 'old' Ichi Ban TP52 (not really old, as it was one of the newest TP's in the AUS fleet anyway). Barry Cuneo. Good bloke and team. Nice step up from the Melges 32! 

Did not think this was a boxing competition!

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I've forgotten their various strengths but wern't the RP100's very quick dead downhill which is what the tracker is predicting?

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7 minutes ago, manicsh said:

lose the politics.  This is about sailing.

Good advice, just looked up the details on "Visit Seattle" mayhap when I really retire, the terms won't be a mystery to this one, being a certified rigger and all.

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7 minutes ago, paps49 said:

I've forgotten their various strengths but wern't the RP100's very quick dead downhill which is what the tracker is predicting?

Yes VMG running suits the narrow boats. If the wind is up around 25-30 knots I don't think Comanche or Infotrack will mind. Comanche is extending ATM and Infotrack passed BJ with Oats in it's sights. 

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From the sailing instructions.

20. ALTERNATIVE PENALTIES
(Amends RRS 44, 63.1 and 64)
20.1 BEFORE CLEARING TURNING MARKS Z/Y.
(a) For an infringement of Part 2 of the RRS that occurs after the Preparatory Signal and
prior to the boat clearing the relevant seamark (Mark Z/ Mark Y), the Two Turns Penalty
under RRS 44.2 shall apply.

(b) A boat which is found after a protest hearing to have infringed a rule of Part 2 of the
RRS after the Preparatory Signal and prior to the boat clearing the relevant seamark
(Mark Z/ Mark Y), shall receive a time penalty of not less than 5 minutes added to the
boat’s elapsed time.

The incident occurred between Mark V and Mark Z. Oats had an opportunity to do some spins. They are clearly confident a 5 minute  time penalty if applied won't affect the end result.

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4 minutes ago, dachopper said:

Beau  Guest flying, will catch oats / blackjack at that pace

Ease up tiger. Waypoint is too far away. It's not an average speed. 

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