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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
dachopper

Sydney to Hobart 2017

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45 minutes ago, ALGEDI said:

The incident occurred between Mark V and Mark Z. Oats had an opportunity to do some spins. They are clearly confident not less than a 5 minute  time penalty if applied won't affect the end result.

Fixed. 

I didn't know Richo was Nostradamus.

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The YouTube feed from Ch7 does not carry the ads, it keeps rolling the cameras (unlike the 7+ version).  Perhaps it would show some of the boats round the weather mark (which C7 failed to do because they threw ads at us instead).  It might also show the P/S properly between Comanche and WO11.  Then again, some fuckwit might have the feed deleted because it shows European PGA golf....  Fuckwits.  Really, WTF?

Anyway, for future reference, don't watch the start on C7, watch it on YouTube and you won't get ad-breaks.  Unless of course, the golfers get us again.

You're welcome.

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24 minutes ago, ASP said:

Still pretty reachy for BJ...the other 100's have a lot more righting moment that she does. Look for her to possibly gain a few miles back on Oats and Info in the VMG running. The Indian...forget about it. 

Addis is one of the best Nav's on the planet. Would love to hear his reasoning, if forthcoming, behind the beach tour, instead of capitalising on being first out in conditions that suited them, before they didn't. Maybe a problem after rounding?

That short play may well have a large bearing on the end LH result.

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Wild Oats XI had the option to make a 720-degree turn when safe to do so after the incident, and this would have saved them from a protest hearing and subsequent penalty but decided against doing so.

Richards' crew discussed making the penalty turn but decided not to engage in the manoeuvre.

"We didn't think there was an infraction," Wild Oats XI navigator Ian Burns said.

"We discussed the 720-degree penalty and decided we didn't need to under the circumstances. [We] continued on, aware of the fact Comanche put up the red protest flag."

Wild Oats XI is facing punishment from the incident should the jury find it guilty. That will most likely come in the form of a time penalty, a minimum of which would be five minutes.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/sailing/ldv-comanche-to-lodge-sydney-to-hobart-protest-against-wild-oats-xi-20171226-h0aa8a.html

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From the North American perspective while C7 was selling shit locally I got video of the race with a microphone under a faucet? (chase boat maybe) & promos for shit I couldn't give 2 shits thru a tin horn about.

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Did I imagine it or did 7 show even less of the slower boats (< 100ft)  than normal? It did not feel like they made any effort once the race started.

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Comanche notified of intent to protest. They don't have to and I would be surprised if they did if they beat oats to the finish. Dumb to protest a boat you've beaten and open yourself up to a chance of being dsq yourself. 

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They don't have to and I would be surprised if they did if they beat oats to the finish.

true story , however they can fly that red all the way and that'll eat at Ricko a little ;)

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17 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

The Start ...and that makes you want to go out and buy a $20k watch instead of a new J3.

When you are as poor as I it does make you wonder, & the little Casio on my wrist tied in with a Cesium clock seems to be doing fine.

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Comanche is about 12 nm off record pace but traveling significantly faster than Loyal was this time last year '

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15 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Did I imagine it or did 7 show even less of the slower boats (< 100ft)  than normal? It did not feel like they made any effort once the race started.

If by "even less" you mean "essentially none" you would be right. As bad as their coverage is, this year plumbed new depths.

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39 minutes ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Comanche notified of intent to protest. They don't have to and I would be surprised if they did if they beat oats to the finish. Dumb to protest a boat you've beaten and open yourself up to a chance of being dsq yourself. 

Alc agree, but the more dumber thing going and by a country mile after their seeing the red hankerchief, was for Elvis and the Big Guy decide not to do a penalty pirouette in a 600+ miler. WTF.

That just stinks of "this is our event" and you other cunts can fuck off.

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The Big Indian out to nearly a 10 mile lead. That's an significant speed advantage. Will be interesting to see how she lines up with her angles with the wind going aft later. Oats has held off Infotrack so far so I suspect she is going faster downhill nowadays...

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11 minutes ago, animeproblem said:

When you  are as poor as I it does make you wonder, & the little Casio on my wrist tied in with a Cesium clock seems to be doing fine.

Own a watch ..and probably still have the fine women you married..you have money to burn mate.

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

Own a watch ..and probably still have the fine women you married..you have money to burn mate.

Bloody hell! I wish mate, running a nursing home now, very exclusive clientele (1) & very small staff (me) only upside is but for property taxes I own the premises.

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14 minutes ago, bayboy said:

Beau Geste has fought back well against Wizard

Even though that Botin 80 is a piece of crap..they are doing that JK V70 a lot of favours pulling them down the runway. Would be good to see a V70 get some silverware 2 years in a row, and maybe put the V70 critics in their place...not to mention supporting Harburgs roll over price on his V70 collecting dust and which is arguably superior to the Wizard.

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26 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

The Start ...and that makes you want to go out and buy a $20k watch instead of a new J3.

To be fair, 20K will get you into a 1675 GMT Pepsi and you can wear that a lot more often than a J3...

 

6 minutes ago, bayboy said:

Beau Geste has fought back well against Wizard and not far off Black jack...

BG was paying almost $100 for LH at one point (which was never going to happen) but wouldn't be surprised if Mr K made off with the proper silverware again. Would be just desserts for the crew in their efforts to hone BG97. Probably the most successful sail program in this hemisphere (eastern?) with the 52 and shortly the MOD, so some silverware is well overdue heading in their direction with the 80.

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57 minutes ago, trt131 said:

No land breeze/sea breeze, this is gradient breeze

In that case they ran out of gradient breeze inshore (even though it was open to windward) & came back out. 

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4 minutes ago, mad said:

And as usual, nothing has changed!! 

Yeah the interweb is weird, but I swear "Dear Leader" had nothing to do with that (oops, fucked up again, nevermind).

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10 minutes ago, bayboy said:

Isn't their 2 VO70 collecting dust now in Black jack and Maserati...

3 + The Jones VO70 ex Sourhern Excellence ex Ichi ex Brunel. 

Where is that nowadays?

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9 minutes ago, bayboy said:

Isn't their 2 VO70 collecting dust now in Black jack and Maserati...

I believe the current line of thinking is that you progressively upgrade waterline length until you win either of the two trophies.

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Full disclosure here: Atheist, but just checked on Akzo's situation, any takers on a bet that this be will for most part settled before they hit Melbourne? Pray for wind comes to mind (in spite of said atheism, channeling Dustin Hoffman in "Sphere", I'm flexible-a much better read BTW).

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Comanche gradually going East so she has an angle to come back with. Doesn't appear to be hurting her position over the others. Stan has set this up text book style. Infotrack not gaining on Oats. 

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4 hours ago, MR PLOW 270 said:

Are you on crack

you can’t fake a blown up mainsail and why the fuck would they fake a keel issue if they were beating the current record holder and on Track to make on themselves. 

Shut the fuck up

Please don’t quote or feed the troll. Thanks. 

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3 minutes ago, thefirstpelican said:

GRRR. I work in retail, electrical. Cunts, cunts everywhere. cunts. Ok I've finished a shit long day. Why can't I find a replay of the start???. Cunts.

Pretty tame. Start was in light winds. WOXI very late to line. Would have been 10-15th. When they started beating into the wind WOXI made up the gap. Contraversial cross with Comanche, Comanche protested. 

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Did my best. Not allowed to stream anything with "moving images" at all once the exclusion zone is in place which is why I can only do audio.

Merry Christmas all - will put all the interviews up individually today.

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4 hours ago, Captain Jack Sparrow said:

Beau Geste just isn't that fast. Her owner and crew are really good yet that boat doesn't seem to go like one would expect from a bigger more powerful platform than a VO70. 

They’re not having a lot of luck with this one or the last BG really. 

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15 minutes ago, thefirstpelican said:

GRRR. I work in retail, electrical. Cunts, cunts everywhere. cunts. Ok I've finished a shit long day. Why can't I find a replay of the start???. Cunts.

Try scrolling upwards a few posts you lazy useless clunt.

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5 minutes ago, thefirstpelican said:

GRRR. I work in retail, electrical. Cunts, cunts everywhere. cunts. Ok I've finished a shit long day. Why can't I find a replay of the start???. Cunts.

Might I recommend retirement? just fuckin with ya, few in that position & for that matter timezone, feel your pain, but judging from the earlier comments: lower expectations, of course NEVER having watched (or had any knowledge before) I enjoyed it (however, microphone under faucet was weird but I doubt many heard that, actually kind of used to weird stuff on the telly, I once used a C band satellite dish, amazing stuff I had access to!).

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Immense pressure on Richards. Very easy for the other three to say they tried hard, still learning the boat etc 1st attempt with current owner / team. 

WOXI haven't finished the last two + they still have to prove last round of mods were successful. 

Fingers crossed they don't push too hard!

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I would say the majority of SH races since I have been following have a southerly buster which would equalise all this, but not this one. 

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12 minutes ago, sailorgirl218 said:

Did my best.

Ignore the chaff giving you shit Nic, your work is awesome and an essential part of the coverage. 

7 minutes ago, mad said:

the last BG

Suspect we'll never hear the full story of the trip back from Norfolk to Auckland, but from the few pics we got of the cracks through the deck, it's a serious bit of seamanship. Maybe most impressive was the call to lift out of the water and back onto the cradle with the cracks. Not sure of the urban legends, but it seems the rumours about Mick Cookson asking for a documented legal release to build the boat were well founded. 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Immense pressure on Richards. Very easy for the other three to say they tried hard, still learning the boat etc 1st attempt with current owner / team. 

WOXI haven't finished the last two + they still have to prove last round of mods were successful. 

Fingers crossed they don't push too hard!

Scanas the only pressure on Richo is your spare fingers tickling his prostrate. That said you are a WOXI fanboy with just cause, particularly as your good wife worked for Mr Bob, so I forgive you. Just like I forgave our bet in 2015 when your guy tanked. It's Xmas, we humans do things like that.

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Comanche running down Loyal's record . Given the distance between the 2 boats today you can only imagine what record would have been set by the Big Indian if it raced last year? Fuck the starboard incident this race is now about the race record and Comanche being under the ownership of an Australian. 

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Yep. It's me, then Abbo, we are members no 1 & 2 in the club. 

I think you were worried about the ah, postage address I would have needed. 

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looking like WOXI anf Info have headed up a tad for pressure , Comanche  faster and lower :D

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I know of a pair of TP52's that could be picked up for a steal in the northern hemisphere.  The trouble with all these boats are the running costs, which I doubt are much different between a 70 footer and an 80 footer. Certainly a jump when in the 100 foot territory.

I'm rooting for WOXI given the bad luck/preparation over the past years.

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7 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Comanche running down Loyal's record

and how , only 1.2nm outside now , s/b in front @ next sked , almost 2x's as fast also .

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Other than the glide Glide up the Derwent, Comanche seems to have this well in hand. 

“The best revenge is sailing well...” hanging a penalty on WOXI after humiliating her on the water will just be a bonus, one can hope said penalty is sufficient to knock her down a (few) places.  

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

The Start ...and that makes you want to go out and buy a $20k watch instead of a new J3.

Also sky vision of the "lee bow" incident that may change some minds here.

T-Bone for dinner anyone?

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

...Also sky vision of the "lee bow" incident that may change some minds here.

Silence is deafening here from you "match racing experts" telling us  mere noobs here we are cluless as to Elvis's fuck up on his "lee bow tack" as we see it. 

Are you coming out still defending your viewpoint or do we have Uber Eats deliver you a Crow Pizza?

Just interested?

 

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1 minute ago, samc99us said:

I know of a pair of TP52's that could be picked up for a steal in the northern hemisphere.  The trouble with all these boats are the running costs, which I doubt are much different between a 70 footer and an 80 footer. Certainly a jump when in the 100 foot territory.

I'm rooting for WOXI given the bad luck/preparation over the past years.

Really?

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Comanche has just eaten 20nm out of the record lead in the last 180 mins, it's getting close! Hopefully some of the crew are carrying camera gear ala Cloggy on R100 so we can get some gonzo footage when they bust this wide open. 

Wouldn't want to be Ken Read this evening however.

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12 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Yep. It's me, then Abbo, we are members no 1 & 2 in the club. 

I think you were worried about the ah, postage address I would have needed. 

I forgave the bet you fool after your bet died plus guaranteed payout was a local yacht club of your choice your end who ever won. Talk about reinvent history.

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41 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Immense pressure on Richards. Very easy for the other three to say they tried hard, still learning the boat etc 1st attempt with current owner / team. 

WOXI haven't finished the last two + they still have to prove last round of mods were successful. 

Fingers crossed they don't push too hard!

Yep, it's show time and he already has a prod up his whatchamacallit.

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3 minutes ago, HMM263 said:

Comanche has just eaten 20nm out of the record lead in the last 180 mins, it's getting close! Hopefully some of the crew are carrying camera gear ala Cloggy on R100 so we can get some gonzo footage when they bust this wide open. 

Wouldn't want to be Ken Read this evening however.

And both Comanche and Infotrack the beam masters heading East of the line with the skinny boys heading inshore trying to sail the least distance. 

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Not as I recall it. I was always willing, I believe you "forgave" me to protect your anonymity. I don't care either way. Have drunk several hundred bottles since, including a nice bottle of Kracken I am currently sipping. 

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13 minutes ago, samc99us said:

I know of a pair of TP52's that could be picked up for a steal in the northern hemisphere.  The trouble with all these boats are the running costs, and unmodified, shitting themselves off Wooloongong at best.

 

 

Fixed

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3 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Not as I recall it. I was always willing, I believe you "forgave" me to protect your anonymity.

Revisit your PM's. I forgave you as I didn't regard a WOXI  DNF was fair your end. Fuck me..are you a snake wrangler Scanas?

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Just now, jack_sparrow said:

Revisit your PM's. I forgave you as I didn't regard a WOXI  DNF was fair your end. Fuck me..are you a snake wrangler Scanas?

I agree with you on that.

But I still maintain your motive was as above. 

WOXI 27.6knots!

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I saw more footage of the camera girl jumping off the stern than most of the other 95 boats at the heads...  Truly sad coverage of a 105 boat race start...

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Looking at forecast, I’d expect Comanche to gybe in next hours to take advantage of pressure expected west of Rhumbline. Upcoming adverse current, I’m guessing sooner. 

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2 hours ago, HMM263 said:

To be fair, 20K will get you into a 1675 GMT Pepsi and you can wear that a lot more often than a J3...

 

BG was paying almost $100 for LH at one point (which was never going to happen) but wouldn't be surprised if Mr K made off with the proper silverware again. Would be just desserts for the crew in their efforts to hone BG97. Probably the most successful sail program in this hemisphere (eastern?) with the 52 and shortly the MOD, so some silverware is well overdue heading in their direction with the 80.

Without people like Karl many many people in this industry would not have a boat to build, fix up and sail on. 

Having said that, that contribution doesn't automatically deserve silverware? Many try and fail, many try and succeed, some with a fraction of his resources. 

The simple fact of life is it seems he is the last person on planet earth to come to the conclusion that his Botin 80 should have been recycled long ago as carbon washing machines, or what ever they do in China with shit that doesn't work.

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1 hour ago, HMM263 said:

! Hopefully some of the crew are carrying camera gear ala Cloggy on R100 so we can get some gonzo footage when they bust this wide open. 

 

Shannon Falcone posted on instagram a suitcase with lots of cameras + a DJI Magic and a DJI spark. Pretty sure there will be some footage even aireal (if they slow down, I have a Spark, wouldn’t try to chase something at 24 knots with it...you’ll probably drop it in the wet trying to land.

 

edit: Falcons is on C if that was not obvious from my post

Edited by AndreasE

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5 hours ago, random said:

Rule 13.  C started to take evasive action while WO was tacking and had no rights.

Rule 15. If WO succeeded in acquiring right of way, she needed to give C room (and opportunity) to keep clear.

Even if Rule 10 was not broken, there are other rules invoked if the tack is too close.

In the video C initially dipped slightly, this looked like he was thinking about a duck but decided not to.  Looks to me like a duck was the best option given that WO looked to have room for a close cross.  If C wanted to make more trouble for WO they would have gone up slightly to make the angle appear worse for them.

When the duck looked risky for C because WO had slowed entering a tack, C went back up at which time they had limited room and opportunity to do more than they did.  These are big boats and that move was ok for a Laser but not for Maxi's, too risky and WO needs to be penalised.  This was the start of an Ocean Race and the cost of both boats being damaged is an unacceptable risk.

You seem to notice a lot more from the video than I was able to. I can't really see C dipping in the video. I can see its bow going up and down, but it seems to be due to waves, not dipping. It is not important when C started to do evasive action, but when she needed to start.

From the video I can't really say what rule WO broke, if any. To mee it seems like WO would have cleared C, if she would not have tacked. But I'm not sure about that. Also it looks a bit like C would have ended on leeward side of WO had she not shooted up. So it may be that she wanted to avoid that.

I really don't see how WO could have broken Rule 15. That would have meant that C was required to do something unseamanlike in order to keep clear. Clearly C was able to keep clear and she didn't need to do anything unseamanlike to do so.

Maybe it would be possible to see what really happened, if we could see the full coverage from all the different cameras. Now the video shown jumped from camera to camera so that it was very hard to see what really happened.

The fact that C made the protest hail and put up the flag doesn't really prove anything. Not even that C will make the protest after they have finished. Sure C would have liked WO to do the turns and thus get in front of them. The fact that WO did not make the turns proves that they think they can get away with it, which can happen by C not making the protest, not being penalized in the room or getting just a small time penalty.

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35 minutes ago, Joakim said:

Maybe it would be possible to see what really happened, if we could see the full coverage from all the different cameras. Now the video shown jumped from camera to camera so that it was very hard to see what really happened.

Go look at the sky view footage in conjunction ..not just the onboard only edited video you mention before waxing lyrical about seamanship, let alone you ignoring the fuckin rules. 

Richo fucked up and has compounded his fuck up for idiots like me to bang on about by hiding his head in the sand by not taking a penalty. Pure & simple.This sport is built on honour..he is shitting on it for every kid to see and follow.

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