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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
dachopper

Sydney to Hobart 2017

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47 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Yeah pretty stupid to open his mouth really. Probabky should of caught Comanches dock lines & disappeared down below for a quick chat with Cooney. 

Got a linky for these reportedly outrageous comments by WO skipper?

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21 minutes ago, Wess said:

Got a linky for these reportedly outrageous comments by WO skipper?

Check out sailor girl on facebook. There are certainly some dockside interviews.

Nothing from Richo but did see him talking to a camera crew so maybe something out there...

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45 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

We know they will get interpreted differently for 100'rs. Iain Murray has had at least 1 day 8 hours & 40 minutes to get his case together, probably a few calls made on the sat phone too. 

They didn't cost Comanche the race or even a position. Different than getting chucked for a collision. 

You don't get it.

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28 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Consequences vastly different, do you want the  same punishment for these guys (DSQ) ?

 

Nothing to say to them, they hate the Oatleys and Ricko.

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Crossing the line 26 minutes after Wild Oats XI, LDV Comanche will take the provisional line honours winner to the protest room.

When Oats’ skipper Mark Richards rushed over to the quay to see whether the protest would go ahead, Cooney told him: “Yes, I’m going to pursue it.”

“OK, no worries, mate, no problem,” Richards said.

Later, Cooney explained the incident shortly after the start.

“It was a port/starboard infringement. We were the right-of-way boat: they were the give-way boat.

“We hailed starboard; they were the give-way boat and they left it until far too late to tack and they tacked right in our water. We had to take evasive action or possibly take both of us out of the race.

“We could have taken their backstay out; they could have broken our bowsprit.”

He said a few minutes in the race could have made all the difference.

 

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3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

You don't get it.

I do. Pro's want their bonus. Cooney not convinced he was 2nd best boat on the day & wants to be a paper champ. 

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A penalty of a nice round hour, or even 30 minutes would be even more of a sting than the DSQ that normal SI would have resulted in.

 

Pity to tarnish the nice end of race sailing with the poor sailing at the start. 

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1 hour ago, Apparent Lee said:
This protest  is a storm in a tea cup, what most peeps fail to observe is that the Pit Bull did not maintain his course. he bore away a minute to 30 secs out and therefore did not give WO11 room and opportunity to keep clear, or in the old parlance he was "hunting" and setting  himself  a tactical advantage to have boat speed to point up after Oats had completed their tack and BTW Oats had completed their tack before Pit Bull was overlapped, .. International Jury will dismiss this... as fluff. Not BTW that I am an Oats or Pit Bull fan ... send it Kearney Alex and Jim ... altho Huey is not not loving small boats this year.

What's with the opportunity word? Hasn't been in the rules for...well a bloody long time.

He was hunting? Did you watch the same video as the rest of us?

1 hour ago, savoir said:

It was much more than that. WO was docked ( but only just ) when C finished.

Richo is telling reporters that C should withdraw its protest.

Well he would wouldn't he - but shouldn't. If he was confident of his position he would say something along the lines of "We have nothing to worry about if they do go ahead with the protest" I would have thought.

As a "Party" to the likely hearing he should keep quiet. That sort of public comment is hardly likely to sit well with the IJ

1 hour ago, Tornado_ALIVE said:

IMG_2477.JPG

The most appropriate quote, not just in sailing but sport in general. I remember some 20 years ago in my home club back in Scotland a guy cheated by using his engine, the protest was ruled invalid (although later the RC realised they were in error). At the prize-giving no one applauded and someone at the back of the crowd shouted "Not bad for a motor boat"'.

Every time he looked at the trophy he knew he had broken rules to win it (not saying WOXI broke rules - that's up to the IJ). He was ostracised and eventually left the club.

Some late night oil (or perhaps tomorrow morning) will be burnt but it will be interesting to see if a) RRS 13 was broken and b ) what the penalty will be if it is.

Some have mentioned it will be a hollow victory if Comanche wins because of a protest but isn't that the rules are supposed to be there for. Disregard the rules and all you have is anarchy - oops we have that here anyway :-)

SS

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2 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Nice job WO taking advantage of her edge in the river to go around Comanche. Now to see how the protest works out. Great race by both boats, hate to see it go to the room but you take the risk and have to possibly pay the price.

Windward Passage had the same thing happen in the '69 Transpac, first to finish, new record, and win taken away for barging a Cal 2-30 at the start.

Going to the room is as mich a part of our game as the sailing. The Cal 30 has is protected by the rules just as much as anyone else.

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5 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

I do. Pro's want their bonus. Cooney not convinced he was 2nd best boat on the day & wants to be a paper champ. 

A give way boat that doesn't give way is never the best boat on the day.

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11 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Crossing the line 26 minutes after Wild Oats XI, LDV Comanche will take the provisional line honours winner to the protest room.

When Oats’ skipper Mark Richards rushed over to the quay to see whether the protest would go ahead, Cooney told him: “Yes, I’m going to pursue it.”

“OK, no worries, mate, no problem,” Richards said.

Later, Cooney explained the incident shortly after the start.

“It was a port/starboard infringement. We were the right-of-way boat: they were the give-way boat.

“We hailed starboard; they were the give-way boat and they left it until far too late to tack and they tacked right in our water. We had to take evasive action or possibly take both of us out of the race.

“We could have taken their backstay out; they could have broken our bowsprit.”

He said a few minutes in the race could have made all the difference.

 

So if you admit to :- could have taken out their backstay are you admitting that you are the overtaking boat?

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3 minutes ago, staysail said:

A give way boat that doesn't give way is never the best boat on the day.

A boat that overtakes you twice in the one race IS the best boat on the day. 

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So IMNSHO C have to establish:

  1. They had to luff to avoid a collision
  2. When they luffed WOXI had not completed their tack
  3. They did not change course prior

I think 1 is pretty easy as it looked scary in all angles and photos, they definitely could have hit if they wanted to.

It will be a little harder to prove 2.  WOXI's head sail still had a bubble in it, but it is the angle of the boat, not the trim of the sails that counts.  The angle that WOXI calls close hauled might be 5 or even 10 degrees higher than the angle they chose to leave that tack at.  I think this one is a coin toss.

I have my doubts about 3, as I think from the videos I've seen it looks like C thought WOXI were going to cross and they were bearing away just a little to take their stern and were already talking about protesting because they had to do so.  If they didn't have to bear way, then WOXI was clear across and there was no need to talk about protests prior to WOXI tacking.  If they did bear away, then I think that clears WOXI for her tack as C was changing course.  Perhaps C will actually protest the fact they had to bear away a little in the first place?     I've not seen any footage that makes it definitive if they did change course or not, but there is a hint... and that might be all the doubt WOXI need.

If WOXI do lose, I'd hate to be the jury to decide what the penalty should be.  Very hard to decide that when you know the finish times.  Perhaps they should have sequestered the jury in a locked hotel room that had nothing except the official race website for info - that way we know they wouldn't be biased by anything like the actual results!   Having discretion is a lot harder than fixed penalties.

 

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8 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

I do. Pro's want their bonus. Cooney not convinced he was 2nd best boat on the day & wants to be a paper champ. 

I'm with Jack - You don't get it.

You mention paper? Well that's what the rules are written on. If a Part 2 rule is broken and not exonerated there should, in my view, be only one penalty. Certainly that's what they do at Olympic level. (See Xu Li Jia case in Race 2 of the laser Radials in Rio)

SS

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1 hour ago, jonas a said:

I guess it depends on the Swede. Some are quite hot tempered, like this one guy, I remember from back in the dinghy days, who jumped into a competitors boat and punched him in the head, just because the guy had tacked on him close to the finish line 

I guess I've only experienced the calm ones ;) been racing a lot with a swedish team there and seen nasty behaviour where I and the other Norwegian said we'll kill them in the jury room - but our skipper said no, we won't delay the beer drinking with that. They just had a conversation with the other boat and agreed to be friends. Up here, it would cause years of hate.... :) 

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Oats sailed an older slower boat with more or less the same group of old guys to a win over the Pro's. This isn't the Olympics & it cost Comanche all of a 5 second & 5 degree course change & it didn't change the position on the line & you guys want to chuck em? 

I hope Cooney sleeps on it. Going to be great dinner conversation showing off his trophy " so we came 2nd but there I was, in the jury room with Jimmy fucking Spithill -amazing " 

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16 minutes ago, gregwilkins said:

I have my doubts about 3, as I think from the videos I've seen it looks like C thought WOXI were going to cross and they were bearing away just a little to take their stern and were already talking about protesting because they had to do so.  If they didn't have to bear way, then WOXI was clear across and there was no need to talk about protests prior to WOXI tacking.  If they did bear away, then I think that clears WOXI for her tack as C was changing course.  Perhaps C will actually protest the fact they had to bear away a little in the first place?     I've not seen any footage that makes it definitive if they did change course or not, but there is a hint... and that might be all the doubt WOXI need.

 

 

That is pretty much how I see it.  They started to bear away to duck them.  They could have protested or not at that point.  but WOXI should have held its course at that point but they tacked.  Tacked into the other boats water.  Its I clear if Comanche had held their course and speed a collision would have happened.  Then Comanache would also be in the bin for failing to avoid a collision.

Poor all round by WOXI. 

The real shame is the armchair sailors bleating about it is not a penalty and the result should not be changed.  The problem the protest committee will have is if they correctly apply the rules and DSQ WOXI they CYCA will get the flack and the high profile Oatley family could have a hissy fit.

 

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If 99.99 pct of the folks who saw the video think it was  a foul,  it was a foul.  

The proper penalty isn't 30 minutes or an hour.  The proper penalty was to honorably do their turns promptly when they fouled LDVC 

WO chose to forgoe that plea bargain and put it in the hands of a jury. They get what they deserve. A dsq would send a nice message instead of the sea lawyering WO will put on. 

Which outcome is better for the sport? 

 

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7 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Oats sailed an older slower boat with more or less the same group of old guys to a win over the Pro's. This isn't the Olympics & it cost Comanche all of a 5 second & 5 degree course change & it didn't change the position on the line & you guys want to chuck em? 

I hope Cooney sleeps on it. Going to be great dinner conversation showing off his trophy " so we came 2nd but there I was, in the jury room with Jimmy fucking Spithill -amazing " 

You race at any level, you foul on a port / startboard and you fail to exonerate yourself you get DSQed regardless of how far in front you finish and weather it would have made a difference in the final result.... That is how it should be.  You are not deserving of winning. 

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5 minutes ago, TonyFromSheepsheadBay said:

If 99.99 pct of the folks who saw the video think it was  a foul,  it was a foul.  

 

Uh... no...
That is not how it works :)

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24 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

A boat that overtakes you twice in the one race IS the best boat on the day. 

It’s a fucking dick move by the most arrogant Dick in the Southern Hemisphere.  Anything that happened after that is moot.

 

 What if everyone on the water treated the rules as Ricko did in that situation?  Especially not long after he totally punted on the start?  One blow to his overly enormous ego, then he fouls a ROW boat, and said “Fuck it!  Take me to the room.”

 

Wild Oats sailed a hell of a race after that incident, but she should retire or be DSQ’d.

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30 minutes ago, Change said:

So if you admit to :- could have taken out their backstay are you admitting that you are the overtaking boat?

Go and find overtaking in the RRS - Good luck!

Oh and maybe time to throw away your IYRU rule book

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13 minutes ago, TonyFromSheepsheadBay said:

If 99.99 pct of the folks who saw the video think it was  a foul,  it was a foul.  

The proper penalty isn't 30 minutes or an hour.  The proper penalty was to honorably do their turns promptly when they fouled LDVC 

WO chose to forgoe that plea bargain and put it in the hands of a jury. They get what they deserve. A dsq would send a nice message instead of the sea lawyering WO will put on. 

Which outcome is better for the sport? 

 

Spot on. (Except for the 99.9% bit) It’s a shame, because if WOXI had just shown proper sportsmanship and done her turns, they’d be celebrating their win and laughing about the botched tack right now. 

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55 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Check out sailor girl on facebook. There are certainly some dockside interviews.

Nothing from Richo but did see him talking to a camera crew so maybe something out there...

I am trying to figure out which comments specifically so offended Jack.

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1 minute ago, Wess said:

I am trying to figure out which comments specifically so offended Jack.

Sure yes. I understand it was something that Richo said but I have not found anything.

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26 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

I guess I've only experienced the calm ones ;) been racing a lot with a swedish team there and seen nasty behaviour where I and the other Norwegian said we'll kill them in the jury room - but our skipper said no, we won't delay the beer drinking with that. They just had a conversation with the other boat and agreed to be friends. Up here, it would cause years of hate.... :) 

Yeah, I understand the temptation :) When I was sailing actively, I avoided protest hearings like the plague, but sometimes it just make sense to protest, mostly because some people easily become too arrogant, if they know that they can get away with anything .  

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We were literally in the same position as oats in a recent regatta. Tacked in front of another competitor, he had to avoid, he protested and had video, he was very very confident and so were a heap of his mates. 

 

 

We won the protest. We had completed the tack. 

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8 minutes ago, TonyFromSheepsheadBay said:

If 99.99 pct of the folks who saw the video think it was  a foul,  it was a foul.  

The proper penalty isn't 30 minutes or an hour.  The proper penalty was to honorably do their turns promptly when they fouled LDVC 

WO chose to forgoe that plea bargain and put it in the hands of a jury. They get what they deserve. A dsq would send a nice message instead of the sea lawyering WO will put on. 

Which outcome is better for the sport? 

 

It's never so clear cut.  Almost every time I been in a protest room (on both sides of the table), things that appear clear from one point of view might be very different from another point of view.

WOXI might present it as they they thought they were across but got a starboard call from C so thought they would be prudent and tack... then to their surprise C bore away just as they were tacking and prevented them from keeping clear.   They may even have on board video that from their point of view they were easily keeping clear until C changed course and came for them.   In their minds it might be a very clear case that C called starboard on them then changed course just as they tacked to comply with their obligations.   So in that case, even if it turns out their impression of events is wrong, there is no moral or sporting reason for them to take turns for an infringement that in their minds they didn't commit.

I'm sure from C's point of view they are equally sure they were infringed and they may well be right.  But they also were definitely very keen to "have a piece of" WOXI with a match racer on the helm and I can't see how that can play well in the room.  If they both yelled starboard and bore away before they needed to, then I think they will lose their protest.  It may be 99% of the people watching were taken in by a Hollywood move (which may have been subconscious or even the inadvertent result of someone calling starboard when the helm didn't want them to) !

The best outcome for our sport is that they have their day in the room and the jury does the best job in a difficult situation to apply the rules and SIs, then whatever their decision it is graciously accepted by all parties (including fans).     We can't set the precedent that a competitor is an a-hole because they do or do not protest or because to do or do-not accept an on water penalty.   Doing turns is part of our sport, but so are protests and neither is more correct than the other.

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, jonas a said:

Yeah, I understand the temptation :) When I was sailing actively, I avoided protest hearings like the plague, but sometimes it just make sense to protest, mostly because some people easily become too arrogant, if they know that they can get away with anything .  

To true.  I was involved when Bear of Britain protested the fleet at the RORC easter challenge in 2005(maybe).  They went round the wrong mark.  It was clear which mark was correct.  They wrote the course down wrong.  So they tried to get away with it by getting the whole fleet binned knowing that nobody was prepared or bothered to argue against them.  Apart from me.  There were easter eggs at stake.

Protest thrown out. No change to result.  Kept my head down for a while then got plenty of nav and tactics gigs after word went round.  

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On 11/11/2017 at 5:51 PM, hoppy said:

Being beaten by BJ and spat the dummy and gave up perhaps? 

 

On 11/11/2017 at 5:55 PM, hoppy said:
On 11/11/2017 at 4:46 PM, Wildboats said:

Terra, mate I told you an hour ago she was motoring off LongReef with sails on the deck.

Had an issue with something

 

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7 minutes ago, rfullarton said:

what makes the cookson 50 such a success ?

Good design & good competition. The Italian boat had some very nice looking sails! 

EDIT: Probably still has those sails. 

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First of all, after watching the video of the incident, I think WO fouled C.  If the IJ comes to the same conclusion, then the only thing left on the table is .... what should the penalty be?  As much as there is all this pomp and circumstance about line honors, let's not forget that this a race with dissimilar boats using the IRC handicap system to sort out podium positions.  The RRS already has system in place that involves a percentage position penalty. If the SI's allow for this solution, I would simply apply the appropriate time penalty to bag them a 30% class position penalty and let the chips fall were they may and not get all caught up in the line honor BS.

Boys & girls, the moral of the story is that if you have to ask yourself "Should I do circles for the close crossing situation that might not go my way in the protest room?", then you've already answered your own question and you should put the helm down and do your F'ing turns!

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Channel 24/ABC with Bollon is hilarious...he has fallen over..is pissed and can't put more than three words together. He is now paying Bob back for giving him the run of the cellar for all these years saying Comanche attacked WOXI and the incident and subsequent protest all came about from Spital aggression.

Can we get a link to see this joker? It could be the alternative high light of the race. 

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wild oats seemed to be playing a one dayer when it was a test match ....  to win this one must have been their highest achievement as it was written off before hand ... utter stupidity ..it seemed to go all wrong at the start so the red mist must have set in ... 

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More over.... just to hammer on this.... it was a not a good move for C to call starboard in the first place.

The were going left and obviously wanted to keep going left.  By calling starboard on WOXI the only result was going to be a big slowed boat in front of them or on their lee bow.  That's fine if they really wanted to go right and immediately tacked away, but from the conversation and their actions they wanted to keep going left, so why try to force WOXI into a tack?

So if they thought left was good, then WOXI was going right and in their minds that was the wrong way to go, so they should have done their bear away and just waived WOXI through. If they also wanted WOXI to take their stern, then they should have been further up the race track... or at least luffing (earlier) rather than bearing away and not given WOXI the option of a close cross.

If they were looking for the penalty, then that would make sense if they were match racing in a short race, but forcing 2 turns on WOXI at that point would have made absolutely no difference to the outcome and this was a close race.   

So I think C's actions were not the smartest and will do them no favours in the room... but they are also actions that many many have made before them (and most of them also get no joy in the room).

 

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5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

While we wait this out with both boats in the creek with WOXI in front, little breeze and the outgoing tide now starting to rush and around 6 1/2 miles to the finish. Anchors will now be deployed on deck.

So while we wait this out.

There have been a barrage of references to the International Jury (IJ) that determine the Indians protest over WOXI's "le Bow Fuck", and by the Sailing Instructions (SI's)  a potential time penalty against WOXI of not less than 5 minutes, and where disqualification cannot be discounted. That has all come about because WOXI elected to not do two (2) 360 degree turns. Do your own calculation for Richo not having done that. What a dick some will no doubt say.

First who is the IJ? They are body nominated by the Race Organiser (RO), via the RO's Race Committee (RC) to Australian Sailing, an affiliate of World Sailing (WS) for approval. Once approved the decisions of the IJ are final and there is no appeal

This process should not be confused with WS sanctioned events like the VOR, AC etc where WS nominate their own IJ with the IJ having the support of a Investigating Officer(s). The IJ for the S2H are currently sitting in Hobart downing coloured drinks by the hotel pool.

Second, there is debate that if Comanche do get over the line first, then they will drop their protest. 

What everyone forgets is that if that was to occur, then the RC with the video evidence of the incident, have no option but to then refer it to the IJ, on account of its impact on placings, particularly LH's for boats like BJ etc, potential 3rd party Rule 69's about bringing the sport into disrepute etc. 

If the RC didn't lodge that protest having regard for the above they would be run out of town.

So who makes up the approved and sanctioned  IJ for this event? They are as follows;

To be continued..I have to grab a cup of tea.

Sorry to disappoint but I haven't bumped this post to reveal the idententies of the IJ. As far as I can see they are people looking to make a contribution to our sport and despite my quip above, with some self sacrifice.Their ability is irrelevant as amongst other things their decision cannot be appealed as I pointed out above.

What is apparent to anyone unless they are stupid WOXI won the battle on the water.

What I did do at that post was push the pause button interested in both the result and the winners public utterings. That obviously proved to be WOXI and from Mark Richards.

I could wax lyrical but in short myself and a number of sailing buddies, some name sailors on the world scene included, some not, some uber rich, some not were all following the outcome of this race with interest. 

The ingredients including weather we're compelling. The outcome of the WOXI and Comanche lee bow tack where WOXI didn't capitulate and do a 720 had us perplexed.

Therefore we waited and from what Mark Richards uttered at the dock we are now collectively appalled. Words like an "innocent" manouve I did consistent with the expectations of an offshore race being somehow different to the standing rules? That made my and our collective bloods boil over. 

Here is a leader in our sport telling us all, including impressionable youngsters who crave heros, that I Mark Richards effectively make the rules up to suit myself.

Well as of now there are a few hours left for Mr Cooney to continue with his protest as flagged. A decision I don't envy him with on account of the "paper win" barbs he will get if he succeeds, and quite frankly he should by any objective assessment. Whether it secures a win or not is probably irrelevant.

That all aside if Cooney doesn't continue his protest, or does so but fails, and the decision by the CYCA appointed IJ is not a transparent deliberatation and conclusion for all to see, then this will happen

Before the last boat docks as permitted by all of the black letter stuff a protest under Rule 69 will be lodged identifying the CYCA and it's appointed IJ for the S2H for bringing the sport into disrepute. That protest will be of substance and bring into play various other legal considerations under Australian law. For instance Mr Sandy Oatley if you are reading these meanderings from, in your mind an internet fool. Can I suggest every dollar you outlay from today to support the above parties would not be a good idea.

Motivation for this course of action you may ask? 

The answer is simple. I and some like minded souls could not give two hoots about the race outcome, but have spent our lives educating and encouraging our kids regarding the protocols of sport and it's rules.

Be fucked if we are going to see some rich guy and his lacky put our collective investment on the rocks. That investment in our own kids, their friends and those they don't even know outweighs the Oatley family's investment in another 24hr headline for their boat by a country mile.

 

 

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1 hour ago, staysail said:

A give way boat that doesn't give way is never the best boat on the day.

A missed opportunity for a tune ...

A give way boat that doesn't give way 

Is never the best boat on the day.

 

So Comanche got sticky after all.  Too bad they stuffed the start.  Otherwise a brilliant race for an old boat.  

Thanks for the blow by blow guys.

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5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

...

Before the last boat docks as permitted by all of the black letter stuff a protest under Rule 69 will be lodged identifying the CYCA and it's appointed IJ for the S2H for bringing the sport into disrepute. That protest will be of substance and bring into play various other legal considerations under Australian law. For instance Mr Sandy Oatley if you are reading these meanderings from, in your mind an internet fool. Can I suggest every dollar you outlay from today to support the above parties would not be a good idea.

...

Dude!  you spend a vast amount of your time contributing to various very popular forums about this sport with humour, insight and a whole bunch of vulgarity and insult!    So you are going to say that a simple contested port starboard incident brings our sport into disrepute!?!?!?  You think all of the opti sailing kiddies should stop hero worshipping WOXI and instead read your wise words and learn how to behave in a reputable way!?!?!?!?

Get some perspective!  Yes they do spend a lot of money on a motor boat that is entirely unlike the experience most of us have sailing.  They may also have broken rules 10, 13 and maybe a few more... but taking your defence to the room doesn't invoke rule 69.

 

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15 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Sorry to disappoint but I haven't bumped this post to reveal the idententies of the IJ. As far as I can see they are people looking to make a contribution to our sport and despite my quip above, with some self sacrifice.Their ability is irrelevant as amongst other things their decision cannot be appealed as I pointed out above.

What is apparent to anyone unless they are stupid WOXI won the battle on the water.

What I did do at that post was push the pause button interested in both the result and the winners public utterings. That obviously proved to be WOXI and from Mark Richards.

I could wax lyrical but in short myself and a number of sailing buddies, some name sailors on the world scene included, some not, some uber rich, some not were all following the outcome of this race with interest. 

The ingredients including weather we're compelling. The outcome of the WOXI and Comanche lee bow tack where WOXI didn't capitulate and do a 720 had us perplexed.

Therefore we waited and from what Mark Richards uttered at the dock we are now collectively appalled. Words like an "innocent" manouve I did consistent with the expectations of an offshore race being somehow different to the standing rules? That made my and our collective bloods boil over. 

Here is a leader in our sport telling us all, including impressionable youngsters who crave heros, that I Mark Richards effectively make the rules up to suit myself.

Well as of now there are a few hours left for Mr Cooney to continue with his protest as flagged. A decision I don't envy him with on account of the "paper win" barbs he will get if he succeeds, and quite frankly he should by any objective assessment. Whether it secures a win or not is probably irrelevant.

That all aside if Cooney doesn't continue his protest, or does so but fails, and the decision by the CYCA appointed IJ is not a transparent deliberatation and conclusion for all to see, then this will happen

Before the last boat docks as permitted by all of the black letter stuff a protest under Rule 69 will be lodged identifying the CYCA and it's appointed IJ for the S2H for bringing the sport into disrepute. That protest will be of substance and bring into play various other legal considerations under Australian law. For instance Mr Sandy Oatley if you are reading these meanderings from, in your mind an internet fool. Can I suggest every dollar you outlay from today to support the above parties would not be a good idea.

Motivation for this course of action you may ask? 

The answer is simple. I and some like minded souls could not give two hoots about the race outcome, but have spent our lives educating and encouraging our kids regarding the protocols of sport and it's rules.

Be fucked if we are going to see some rich guy and his lacky put our collective investment on the rocks. That investment in our own kids, their friends and those they don't even know outweighs the Oatley family's investment in another 24hr headline for their boat by a country mile.

 

 

Magnificent!

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19 minutes ago, gregwilkins said:

Dude!  you spend a vast amount of your time

First bad move calling me dude. Who says that anymore? Anyway who cares about your pathetic opinion. We are spending $ supporting ours while you play with your dick typing.

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1 hour ago, gregwilkins said:

WOXI might present it as they they thought they were across but got a starboard call from C so thought they would be prudent and tack... then to their surprise C bore away just as they were tacking and prevented them from keeping clear.

Funny thing is that WOXI would have been free and clear if they had decided not to tack.

  Its pretty likely C would have no case nor protest if W hadn't tacked.

  It is nothing but complete numbscullery that W tacked where they did.  If they know their boat so poorly, they shouldn't be on the course.

 

1 hour ago, gregwilkins said:

More over.... just to hammer on this.... it was a not a good move for C to call starboard in the first place.

The were going left and obviously wanted to keep going left.  By calling starboard on WOXI the only result was going to be a big slowed boat in front of them or on their lee bow.  That's fine if they really wanted to go right and immediately tacked away, but from the conversation and their actions they wanted to keep going left, so why try to force WOXI into a tack?

FFS,, you think these are girls in the high school league!?...  "they called starboard, so we tacked immediately."

   Have they, and you,, not been sailing long enough to know their length, overhang and turning radius would only get in the way!?

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Just now, jack_sparrow said:

First bad move calling me dude. Who says that anymore? Anyway who cares about your pathetic opinion. We are spending $ supporting ours while you play with your dick typing.

Dude!

I've no idea who your royal "we" is or what your $ are being spent on or why the fuck that should make your opinion any more notable than any other of the couch surfing tossers in here (including myself).  Actually I think that perhaps you are a troll employed by VOR and the CYCA to be part of the entertainment of following sailing!

Keep up the hyperventilation!   All part of the fun of not sailing!

 

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I had the opportunity to win this race overall in the room. In 2008 we (Ragtime) participated in a rescue of a sinking boat (Georgia) and were off the course for about 120 min. We sought and were awarded 120 mins, with the jury asking several times "was that all we wanted?". The deal was we had found a gybe angle and made a move with one other boat for better current inshore. The other boat was Quest. After getting where we wanted to be, we saw flares and went all the way back where the move was initiated to help with the rescue.

After the people were secured and the boat was literally gone, we resumed racing. The problem was, we could not make the same move in shore - the gybe angle was gone. Further down the course, that 120 mins put us behind a squall rather than in front of it and we were becalmed for an hour plus. We reached the Derwent at 9 PM, rather than 6 PM, and it took us until close to 2 AM to finish in glass conditions. Boats that got there before 8 took an hour to finish.

Collectively, we were easily 2 hrs onsite + 1 hour or more at the squall plus 5 hours at the Derwent, total 8 hours plus. Quest took 1st Overall, clearly beating the other 52's because of the move we both made the first night. Our raw time was something like 5 hours out of 1st overall corrected. On the other hand, I knew that winning a S2H win based on hypotheticals would not be satisfying to me, or a great outcome for the fleet, and based on that, we stayed away from the hypothetical redress. We won class easily based on the small redress we sought.

The other rescue boat (Merit) had to go to shore to drop the Georgia crew and was awarded something like 17 hours. Besides time not racing, Bass Strait went flat after we went through, and they were behind that. They won their class as well.

We went a long way to compete in S2H, and having 1st Overall so close in hand for a then 44 year old boat was a tantalizing story book outcome. So we will go back and give it another go rather than win in the room. In the spirit of that, I roll with a protest withdrawal by Comanche or a 5-10 min penalty for WOXI - I guess I want to see fast boats unleashed and their effort was strong to stay with Comanche all night. On the other hand, two spins could easily have led to a broken batten or worse and no finish at all, so it is a tough one. Personally, I think WOXI could have pulled off the cross, but that's another debate.

 

 

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Sorry sailors of the world, but betting the IJ will be getting a little Xmas bonus in their bank acc’s and the protest will get swept under the carpet, And the big C won’t win, sorry again but a family with that much cash and a boat that only does the Hobart doesn’t like that silver wear leaving their mantle piece...... can’t see the any other outcome 

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4 minutes ago, couchsurfer said:

\

FFS,, you think these are girls in the high school league!?...  "they called starboard, so we tacked immediately."

   Have they, and you,, not been sailing long enough to know their length, overhang and turning radius would only get in the way!?

WOXI didn't tack because they yelled starboard, they tacked because they were not waived through.  They knew they were on a tight cross, but there was a good chance C would let them through rather than have them tack on top of them. 

It's only in the kiddies/amateur leagues where you get people yelling starboard on any old crossing.  The only reason for C to yell starboard was to tell WOXI that they intended to hunt them (legally) to make them tack.  The fact that they then bore away as if they intended to let them through confused the issue.

They may still win the protest as WOXI's tack was painfully slow, but it's not clear cut.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Ragtime said:

Personally, I think WOXI could have pulled off the cross, but that's another debate.

Good story Mr Rag.

Agree that W would have likely cleared, or at least it would have been a tough win in the room for C.

  Trying to figure what rationale would justify a tack where they did!?  :unsure:

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8 minutes ago, couchsurfer said:

Funny thing is that WOXI would have been free and clear if they had decided not to tack.

  Its pretty likely C would have no case nor protest if W hadn't tacked.

  It is nothing but complete numbscullery that W tacked where they did.  If they know their boat so poorly, they shouldn't be on the course.

 

FFS,, you think these are girls in the high school league!?...  "they called starboard, so we tacked immediately."

   Have they, and you,, not been sailing long enough to know their length, overhang and turning radius would only get in the way!?

Fuck Couch I thought you were one with a double digit IQ...the incident itself  is now secondary to WOXI's treatment of same on the water at the time, but now their on land treatment of it. 

That is wise up people the S2H is the WOXI show and don't rock the boat in the rules department. Fuck them.

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3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Fuck Couch I thought you were one with a double digit IQ...the incident itself  is now secondary to WOXI's treatment of same on the water at the time, but now their on land treatment of it. 

That is wise up people the S2H is the WOXI show and don't rock the boat in the rules department. Fuck them.

Eh, sorry jack-spurt, just waking on the NAwestcoast, catching up as the coffee brews..... can you be more specific about the onshore stuff,, quotes, footage etc?  :mellow:

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11 minutes ago, gregwilkins said:

WOXI didn't tack because they yelled starboard, they tacked because they were not waived through.  They knew they were on a tight cross, but there was a good chance C would let them through rather than have them tack on top of them. 

Can you post a link of these special race rules for the S2H that no one knows about...they are fascinating. Do they involve strange after dark rituals to be in the know? 

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I always thought WO fan club was because C was American owned. Now that it is Australian, I guess the Oatley Estate and their beneficiaries have significant fans. 

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6 minutes ago, couchsurfer said:

Eh, sorry jack-spurt, just waking on the NAwestcoast, catching up as the coffee brews..... can you be more specific about the onshore stuff,, quotes, footage etc?  :mellow:

No fuck off..and get off your sofa..I'm not your fuckin PA. I also got bigger fish to fry you turd  :-)

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2 minutes ago, Miffy said:

I guess the Oatley Estate and their beneficiaries have significant fans. 

Miff fans are pretty thin on the ground after having drunk the WO/Oatley Estate. Nice label though... actually even the label is shit.

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WOXI The greatest 100 footer in the world today. She is the only boat to beat Comanche, and she's done it twice! I just love the fact that teams and boats have come and gone, new designs have been built/ bought and raced, they've broken records, and some have been called "The fastest Monohull in the world today" and the old girl has come out and beat them all. I'm no fan of the Oatley family, but damn that boat is something special! 

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1 hour ago, gregwilkins said:

Dude!  you spend a vast amount of your time contributing to various very popular forums about this sport with humour, insight and a whole bunch of vulgarity and insult!    So you are going to say that a simple contested port starboard incident brings our sport into disrepute!?!?!?  You think all of the opti sailing kiddies should stop hero worshipping WOXI and instead read your wise words and learn how to behave in a reputable way!?!?!?!?

Get some perspective!  Yes they do spend a lot of money on a motor boat that is entirely unlike the experience most of us have sailing.  They may also have broken rules 10, 13 and maybe a few more... but taking your defence to the room doesn't invoke rule 69.

 

He likes to hear himself talk. A lot. Ignore the drama queen.

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9 minutes ago, sclarke said:

WOXI The greatest 100 footer in the world today.

Agree with that in the context of S2H ..world is a bit rich though when it hadn't had its passport stamped too many times ...that said a shame they have tainted that fine record with those riding that fine horse being fuckin try one on cheats, unless properly absolved.

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16 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Can you post a link of these special race rules for the S2H that no one knows about...they are fascinating. Do they involve strange after dark rituals to be in the know? 

....with logic like that, it's clear he's a Stralian.  :mellow:

12 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

No fuck off..and get off your sofa..I'm not your fuckin PA. I also got bigger fish to fry you turd  :-)

..and good morning to you too!   :)     ...with greetings like that,, it's clear you're a total nutsack single 

6 minutes ago, sclarke said:

WOXI The greatest 100 footer in the world today. She is the only boat to beat Comanche, and she's done it twice! I just love the fact that teams and boats have come and gone, new designs have been built/ bought and raced, they've broken records, and some have been called "The fastest Monohull in the world today" and the old girl has come out and beat them all. I'm no fan of the Oatley family, but damn that boat is something special! 

Protest aside, that seemed to be a great race. Unfortunately there WAS a very inexplicable tack by the winning boat that leaves a few rather dumbfounded!   Very credible for W keeping up with the big C.  It seemed the writing was on the wall when I went to sleep,,, W holding so close,, W a better boat in light winds,, and the Derwent Doldrums coming up.    

    WOXI reminds me of the laser I had with a canted CB trunk..... good for racing at St Francis,,, and absolutely nothing else. :lol:

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28 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Can you post a link of these special race rules for the S2H that no one knows about...they are fascinating. Do they involve strange after dark rituals to be in the know? 

Perhaps they are from the same secret rules that say if you don't immediately give up when somebody waives a red flag at you then you should be rogered by a sparrow  dick and subject to a RRS69 protest!

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2 hours ago, Fast Laser said:

First of all, after watching the video of the incident, I think WO fouled C.  If the IJ comes to the same conclusion, then the only thing left on the table is .... what should the penalty be?  As much as there is all this pomp and circumstance about line honors, let's not forget that this a race with dissimilar boats using the IRC handicap system to sort out podium positions.  The RRS already has system in place that involves a percentage position penalty. If the SI's allow for this solution, I would simply apply the appropriate time penalty to bag them a 30% class position penalty and let the chips fall were they may and not get all caught up in the line honor BS.

Boys & girls, the moral of the story is that if you have to ask yourself "Should I do circles for the close crossing situation that might not go my way in the protest room?", then you've already answered your own question and you should put the helm down and do your F'ing turns!

I agree, do your turns. All the rest is BS!

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7 minutes ago, couchsurfer said:

Protest aside, that seemed to be a great race. Unfortunately there WAS a very inexplicable tack by the winning boat that leaves a few rather dumbfounded!   Very credible for W keeping up with the big C.  It seemed the writing was on the wall when I went to sleep,,, W holding so close,, W a better boat in light winds,, and the Derwent Doldrums coming up.    

    WOXI reminds me of the laser I had with a canted CB trunk..... good for racing at St Francis,,, and absolutely nothing else. :lol:

Right on.  Shame about the dock talk though.

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2 minutes ago, couchsurfer said:

and good morning to you too!   :)     ...with greetings like that,, it's clear you're a total nutsack single 

Couch calling one a total nutsack is fine...I understand that is code saying your glamour sister just got divorced from her rich banker husband and can I help out. Love to normally but I'm buried this week at least wading through what is already on the plate. Cheers.

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5 minutes ago, southerncross said:

  Shame about the dock talk though.

yeh, total shame. I (almost) don't have a favorite, but gotta say I've never liked the one-trick-pony approach WOkki has.   It's really too bad this totally numbskull incident is there to mire their win.

...but pleeeze fill me in,,, haven't found reference to it.  :mellow:  

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

.......... I'm buried this week at least wading through what is already on the plate. Cheers.

Oh.   right.      ....see whatchamean.   :mellow:

Image result for pigs in mud pictures

 

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5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

I just listened to Richo's interview which essentially was he said this is an ocean race where we keep boats safe and it is not a round the bouy/AC event and Comanche were wankers protesting his "le Bow Fuck". Then followed up with gratutious praise.

The guy doesn't get it and thinks he is bullet proof. He should be sodomised.

Couch, ask Jack.  This is all I read.  I don't know where the interview can be found. So maybe needs to heard.

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5 minutes ago, gregwilkins said:

Perhaps they are from the same secret rules that say if you don't immediately give up when somebody waives a red flag at you then you should be rogered by a sparrow  dick and subject to a RRS69 protest!

Can I have your permission  to nominate that as a wall of fame quote in our local mental institution?

You don't know how much inmates seek inspiration from stuff like that.

PS. Do you mind translating it into English... the wall carver guy only does that. 

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“I think we were totally innocent at the incident at the start. It is not the America’s Cup, it is the Hobart. The rules are different. I am not concerned at all.” - Ricko

This says all there is to know.  This is why sailing is dying.  Too many who think thw rules are different for them.  AC, Hobart, whatever.  The rules are there for a reason.  He's not concerned about the foul.  He could have said we're innocnet and the jury will.see that.  He didn't.   He said the rules don't apply.  

its sad.  I know one of two crew on WOXI and was rooting for them.  Buy i am no fan of a lack of sportsmanship.

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1 minute ago, southerncross said:

Couch, ask Jack.  This is all I read.  I don't know where the interview can be found. So maybe needs to heard.

yah Jack.   It's time.    ...a video of the interview,, or it didn't happen**

 

                                **  wouldn't be a surprise for all the codswallop yer post.   <_<

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4 minutes ago, couchsurfer said:

Oh.   right.      ....see whatchamean.   :mellow:

Image result for pigs in mud pictures

 

You have images like that so close to hand...mmmm. what is your favourite calibre Couch??...and yes, that is a trick question.

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3 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

“I think we were totally innocent at the incident at the start. It is not the America’s Cup, it is the Hobart. The rules are different. I am not concerned at all.” - Ricko

This says all there is to know.  This is why sailing is dying.  Too many who think thw rules are different for them.  AC, Hobart, whatever.  The rules are there for a reason.  He's not concerned about the foul.  He could have said we're innocnet and the jury will.see that.  He didn't.   He said the rules don't apply.  

its sad.  I know one of two crew on WOXI and was rooting for them.  Buy i am no fan of a lack of sportsmanship.

Are you whispering? (font)

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1 minute ago, couchsurfer said:

yah Jack.   It's time.    ...a video of the interview,, or it didn't happen**

 

                                **  wouldn't be a surprise for all the codswallop yer post.   <_<

Scroll up you lazy turd.

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8 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

“I think we were totally innocent at the incident at the start. It is not the America’s Cup, it is the Hobart. The rules are different. I am not concerned at all.” - Ricko

.....ahh, roight..... that should go up on the wall of shame alongside video of that tack   :lol:

   He must be referring to the ....secret code of unwritten yachting rules,  I've  had a glimpse at those a couple of times,, verrry interesting when players hide behind those rules.   :mellow:

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