dachopper

Sydney to Hobart 2017

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20 minutes ago, The Main Man said:

Pretty damn funny now reading all the comments in the build up to the hearing result. Some very confident assertions have been proved...wanting.

....a pretty shocking expose of knowledge of the RRS around here!     A real eye opener.    :o    :lol:

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2 minutes ago, Captain Jack Sparrow said:

 

 

A hypothetical question to those with more knowledge about it than me...If Boat A protested Boat B and B did her turns but later was found to have not fouled by the committee would B be eligible for redress having done penalty turns?

 

No. Redress isn't given under those circumstances. Similar situation to seeing an individual recall flag up, returning to restart, and then finding out it wasn't you. 

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6 minutes ago, Captain Jack Sparrow said:

A hypothetical question to those with more knowledge about it than me...If Boat A protested Boat B and B did her turns but later was found to have not fouled by the committee would B be eligible for redress having done penalty turns?

 


No. It wouldn't even go to the jury - boat A's protest has been satisfied. Civilized conflict resolution.

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9 minutes ago, couchsurfer said:

....a pretty shocking expose of knowledge of the RRS around here!     A real eye opener.    :o    :lol:

Exactly my point, as well as bringing out quite a few trolls from ACA and other places as well. 

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9 hours ago, Bruno said:

Well, don't really agree with the jury, C shouldn't have altered down but the primary mistake was on W. If they were smart they'd have tacked earlier and to leeward, then chance of a foul is nil and in the lighter stuff probably could've pinched them off, dumb, over reaching, it happens.

Or crossed, clear ahead. They had time and room IMO.

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2 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Or crossed, clear ahead. They had time and room IMO.

Yep. Even if they weren't - Comanche to my eye was prepared for the cross, might have protested but I don't think the jury would have ruled obstruction in that circumstance. The tack was what made it too dangerous.

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39 minutes ago, glexpress said:

To the first question it's simple, on the water WO thought they were in the right and off the water that changed were and were still willing to risk a penalty.  I'm not saying that's the right way to do things, only what might have been going on in their head.

Not joking.  Just trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but perhaps you're right these guys are pros.  What I was driving at with those comments was the evidence was overwelming, once on shore the right thing to do would have been to RAF.

What I would say about a penalty is that a punishment in the room should be more putative than doing circles for sure, maybe 2 to 3 times more punishing than taking a penalty on the water.   I'm not a super maxi expert, but a 60 minute penalty exceeds that.  A protest room punishment should exceed on the water punishment, but shouldn't seek to change the result.  If it so happens that a result gets changed by a punishment 2 to 3 times greater than so be it. 

I'm speaking to the harshness as a spectator, if I were dealt such a punishment as a coach or competitor I my opinions would be kept to myself... but then again using my logic I would have done a 720 or at worst taken an RAF (as would my students), but I digress.  

Stakes are different and with big boats you almost always take it to the room, even with my 45' the bucks spent are high enough not to just let it go.

At first the C vs. WOXI incident was clear to me as well, WOXI's foul. But now I'm not sure C was completely innocent either... Anyways great race going on and the battle for Line honours was a great show and WOXI showed her offshore potential which we all know Comanche already has.

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8 hours ago, couchsurfer said:

...ended up throwing us both out.

Yeah. 

Two of the great truths of sailboat racing:

-- the best way to avoid losing a protest in the room is to avoid being in a protest in the room.  If in doubt, do your turns, they always hurt less than a DSQ.

and

-- you can't win a race in the first 5 minutes, but you can lose a race in the first 5 minutes.

Richo failed the test on both of those.

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13 minutes ago, mad said:

Exactly my point, as well as bringing out quite a few trolls from ACA and other places as well. 

So now you can only enjoy Americas Cup or Offshore racing, but heaven forbid you just cannot enjoy both. Please.

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29 minutes ago, Captain Jack Sparrow said:

 

A hypothetical question to those with more knowledge about it than me...If Boat A protested Boat B and B did her turns but later was found to have not fouled by the committee would B be eligible for redress having done penalty turns?

 

No in short.

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32 minutes ago, couchsurfer said:

 

....a pretty shocking expose of knowledge of the RRS around here!     A real eye opener.    :o    :lol:

 

It's not unusual cue Tom Jones. New song for MR - sorry.

He could do with a bit of love bless him.... and not manlove for the benefit of the rednecks - you know who you are...

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14 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Or crossed, clear ahead. They had time and room IMO.

 

10 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Yep. Even if they weren't - Comanche to my eye was prepared for the cross, might have protested but I don't think the jury would have ruled obstruction in that circumstance. The tack was what made it too dangerous.

That's the strange thing, W likely would have been close but clear,, maybe needed to do the opposite of what they did, a quick bearaway at the right moment.  In any case, they did about as bad as they possibly could!   Between the start and the incident, I really wonder what the FACK was going on with Richards and Murray.... feel like starting the...'yachting hall of shame' for things like this.    Their moves were as rational as Rimas, no more, no less! 

2 minutes ago, sledracr said:
  8 hours ago, couchsurfer said:

...ended up throwing us both out.

Yeah. Two of the great truths of sailboat racing:

-- the best way to avoid losing a protest is to avoid being in a protest.  If in doubt, do your turns.   and

-- you can't win a race in the first 5 minutes, but you can lose a race in the first 5 minutes.

Richo failed the test on both of those.

''If in doubt, do your turns''....not necessarily good enough.   :wacko:

In the case experience I mentioned,,, we were front row on the startline of a laser worlds in the 80's.  There was contact, but the other fellow didn't get his flag out for ~a minute,, I probably took 2 minutes before I could do circles.   The jury ruled both of us be thrown out, using their own verdict from the previous worlds as precedent!     Now S'handed boats aren't even required to show a frikken flag.   'First reasonable opportunity'  used to mean exactly that!  <_< 

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51 minutes ago, sclarke said:

So now you can only enjoy Americas Cup or Offshore racing, but heaven forbid you just cannot enjoy both. Please.

Both are very enjoyable, even more so without the fanatical fanboys and trolls. 

It’s just a shame that the same pack of cunts decide to shit in both forums. 

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Just in case anyone gives a shit what I think.

There was a wind shift to the left in between the two outer marks.

Oats got a port tack ride back into contact with Comanche and Black Jack.

This was just an accident of timing, if they had been further ahead at the first turning mark, they wouldn't have had the leverage.  So it wasn't a case of their superior speed finally digging them out of their poor start. Their poor start put them in the right place at the right time.

Comanche eats as much of the lefty as they can stand, and finally thinking it isn't going to shift back they tack to take their lumps and get into the new breeze.  Tacking Comanche without diesel winches is slower than for Wild Oats. As a result minimizing tacks is part of their strategy.

As they converge, the port shift wanes and the sure cross looks like a close cross.  The on board video from Wild Oats shows them making bearing on Comanche until Ricko changes helm stations.   From that vantage point, I would venture to say that they could have crossed, with maybe an I owe you one on the side.  They are not on the layline for the mark, so they are going to have to tack twice anyway.  Having just ridden a lefty, they probably still want to own the left.

If Oats  tacks  safely to leeward of Comanche, she will be pinned from the mark, unable to tack until Comanche tacks.  As a result they attempt a slam dunk and fail. Ricko has been doing things like this with Wild Oats and getting away with if for quite a while, which explains his "rules are different" comment.  Others may sail the race, but Wild Oats owns it.

Either Comanche waving them across, or Wild Oats tacking safely to leeward and ahead were the prudent choices. Many times big boats in congested waters are a little lax with rule enforcement just to prevent stupid and unsafe situations.  Mark Richards' lack of judgement robbed Wild Oats XI of a place in the record books.  Sure Wild Oats XI could be called Grandfather's Axe because there is almost nothing left of the original boat, but she has been an historic yacht with a great record. If she is to be sold or retired, it would have been on a very high note and possibly holding a record which will not be broken any time soon. 

SHC

 

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Just a shame MR (and perhaps his afterguard) did not treat the whole episode with the same dignity that it deserved by at very least being big enough to say, "I fucked up".

He still can - anybody got a direct line to give him a prompt.

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As predicted WOX1 got the penalty it asked for.. Well done to IJ and has gone some way to reinstate faith that the OB network is being rolled. Watching interviews with Richo I can't help being reminded of the adage, 'a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still'.  IMO he's toast now. Why Ian Murray or some other racing sailor wasn't helming beats me and no doubt will be if there is a next time. With the patriarch gone  things have changed and if its not sold there will be big changes in the afterguard ?  BTW where have the trolls who couldn't  understand what happened gone ? Hope they don't turn up on a racetrack near to you with their lack of rules knowledge. Probably not real sailors ?

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Months from now in the wee hours of the morning a nightmarish cry is heard from the bed chambers of one home on Hamilton Island, “”Hold course, you fool.  Hold course!”

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1 hour ago, sledracr said:

Yeah. 

Two of the great truths of sailboat racing:

-- the best way to avoid losing a protest in the room is to avoid being in a protest in the room.  If in doubt, do your turns, they always hurt less than a DSQ.

and

-- you can't win a race in the first 5 minutes, but you can lose a race in the first 5 minutes.

Richo failed the test on both of those.

+1000.

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On 28/12/2017 at 12:55 AM, NORBowGirl said:

I guess I've only experienced the calm ones ;) been racing a lot with a swedish team there and seen nasty behaviour where I and the other Norwegian said we'll kill them in the jury room - but our skipper said no, we won't delay the beer drinking with that. They just had a conversation with the other boat and agreed to be friends. Up here, it would cause years of hate.... :) 

It’s got nothing to do with beer, Swedes are pussies who are scared of conflict. You are not going to get consensus in the jury room so it’s not something for many Swedes.

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19 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Months from now in the wee hours of the morning a nightmarish cry is heard from the bed chambers of one home on Hamilton Island, “”Hold course, you fool.  Hold course!”

...or from the infirmary.  :mellow:

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of 'sorting' happens.  Mr ... Sailor's Hall of Shame  ...needs some humble pie.   

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8 minutes ago, hoppy said:

It’s got nothing to do with beer, Swedes are pussies who are scared of conflict. You are not going to get consensus in the jury room so it’s not something for many Swedes.

To misquote, "There's only two things I hate; intolerance of other cultures and the Australians." 

Fuck off you racist.

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6 hours ago, stufishing said:
Quote

“I think we were totally innocent at the incident at the start. It is not the America’s Cup, it is the Hobart. The rules are different. I am not concerned at all.”

Well, some of you WOXI fanboys should read the above statement again. Perhaps twice. Maybe three times. Then if you think about it a slight bit, perhaps you may understand how a TEAM deciding to ignore probably the second most fundamental rule in sailing will cause some angst amongst those sailors who view the rules as a part of the sport to be observed.

He is correct that the rules are different in the America's Cup for this port starboard upwind situation, hunting is allowed:

"Under the standard racing rules [RRS], if a porttack boat (P) is bearing away to pass astern (“duck”) a starboard tack boat (S), S is not allowed to bear away (“hunt”) P when the boats are close (rule 16.2). However, in the RRSAC, S is allowed to hunt P as long as she does not bear away farther than 90 degrees from the true wind (RRSAC 16.2)."

Comanche did not hunt as shown by indisputable nav data provided by Honey, so RRS 16.2  did not apply.  WOXI was penalized for breaking RRS 13.  Stating that RRS 16.2 & RRSAC 16.2 are different is a red herring.

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16 minutes ago, hoppy said:

It’s got nothing to do with beer, Swedes are pussies who are scared of conflict. You are not going to get consensus in the jury room so it’s not something for many Swedes.

Sounds about right :) a quality both good and bad. 

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8 minutes ago, Hitcher said:

To misquote, "There's only two things I hate; intolerance of other cultures and the Australians." 

Fuck off you racist.

Not racist, but stereotyping. Quite a typical trait. 

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10 hours ago, random said:

Don't be an arsehole arrogant cunt or you will be punished.

In that case you are going to wind up with your nuts wired to a car battery and your severed cock stuffed in your mouth.

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8 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

Sounds about right :) a quality both good and bad. 

After working there for 16 years and being in countless meetings that went on and on because they can’t reach a consensus and the manager is incapable of making a decision because they feared upsetting one side, it became very tiresome. I appreciated the occasional encounters with Finnish managers for their ability to make a decision, no matter how stupid it was.

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21 minutes ago, Hitcher said:

To misquote, "There's only two things I hate; intolerance of other cultures and the Australians." 

Fuck off you racist.

Funny how racist you are....

I’m not being racist, just sharing my honest opinion about living and working among them.

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3 hours ago, mad said:

That was in no way a lee bow tack!  If nothing else this race and thread has been very entertaining and has also identified that being on a race course with some here as possibly a very dangerous pastime. 

When did I say it was. It would have been, if WO would have tacked 1/4-1/2 boat lenght earlier. Tacking full boat lenght earlier would have left C free of leebow effect.

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Good to see the WO haters enjoy their wank fest. Having been in a interweb brown out for 24 hours it is very funny come back and see all the experts ( most of who have never done a Hobart) bagging the entire WO program. Like it or not WOXI is an Australian sporting icon up their with Phar lap, Bradman and Rosewall. And Mr Coney can stare at the LH trophy that he bought all he wants but there will always be that knowlage that he in fact wasn't the first boat over the line. I think some true class would have been to not go ahead with the protest and to acknolage that the incerdent had nothing to do with the outcome and he was beaten by a better crew on a slower boat.  Flame away you haters...

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2 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Good to see the WO haters enjoy their wank fest. Having been in a interweb brown out for 24 hours it is very funny come back and see all the experts ( most of who have never done a Hobart) bagging the entire WO program. Like it or not WOXI is an Australian sporting icon up their with Phar lap, Bradman and Rosewall. And Mr Coney can stare at the LH trophy that he bought all he wants but there will always be that knowlage that he in fact wasn't the first boat over the line. I think some true class would have been to not go ahead with the protest and to acknolage that the incerdent had nothing to do with the outcome and he was beaten by a better crew on a slower boat.  Flame away you haters...

No reason to flame. As you note “Australian sporting icon” was the term of reference.  

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2 hours ago, Itsabimmerthing said:

. Anyways great race going on and the battle for Line honours was a great show and WOXI showed her offshore potential which we all know Comanche already has.

What the previous 8 LH wins didn't give you a slight inkling as to WO 'offshore potential' ?

 

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6 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Good to see the WO haters enjoy their wank fest. Having been in a interweb brown out for 24 hours it is very funny come back and see all the experts ( most of who have never done a Hobart) bagging the entire WO program. Like it or not WOXI is an Australian sporting icon up their with Phar lap, Bradman and Rosewall. And Mr Coney can stare at the LH trophy that he bought all he wants but there will always be that knowlage that he in fact wasn't the first boat over the line. I think some true class would have been to not go ahead with the protest and to acknolage that the incerdent had nothing to do with the outcome and he was beaten by a better crew on a slower boat.  Flame away you haters...

Not many bagging the whole WO program, just the dick move of a tack and the skipper being a dick also. 

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30 minutes ago, hoppy said:

After working there for 16 years and being in countless meetings that went on and on because they can’t reach a consensus and the manager is incapable of making a decision because they feared upsetting one side, it became very tiresome. I appreciated the occasional encounters with Finnish managers for their ability to make a decision, no matter how stupid it was.

Also very accurate description of the finnish :) my company is scandinavian and we deal with these differences on a daily basis. 

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2 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

Also very accurate description of the finnish :) my company is scandinavian and we deal with these differences on a daily basis. 

Mine was Nordic... (Finland is not part of Scandinavia ;) )

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I agree there were several Dick moves- Ricko's brain fart and JC accepting a trophy he didn't actually win. Who the fuck would want a LH trophy under that circumstances? Or to have your name on the race record knowing that another boat was in fact 23 minutes faster? I guess some people don't care how they collect their trophys as long as they get them.

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....from Rooster..... 

Image result for mark richards picture 

....to Featherduster.  :mellow:

Image result for wandering hobo picture

8 minutes ago, mad said:

Not many bagging the whole WO program, just the dick move of a tack and the skipper being a dick also. 

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1 minute ago, LB 15 said:

I agree there were several Dick moves- Ricko's brain fart and JC accepting a trophy he didn't actually win. Who the fuck would want a LH trophy under that circumstances? Or to have your name on the race record knowing that another boat was in fact 23 minutes faster? I guess some people don't care how they collect their trophys as long as they get them.

...the trophy would sound hollow, either way you cut it.  :mellow:

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Just now, LB 15 said:

I agree there were several Dick moves- Ricko's brain fart and JC accepting a trophy he didn't actually win. Who the fuck would want a LH trophy under that circumstances? Or to have your name on the race record knowing that another boat was in fact 23 minutes faster? I guess some people don't care how they collect their trophys as long as they get them.

One suggestion was to win the protest against WO and then C decline the win and the trophy, at least that way nobody wins it under those shit circumstances. It’s not something I’d be proud of winning in that manner. 

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27 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Good to see the WO haters enjoy their wank fest. Having been in a interweb brown out for 24 hours it is very funny come back and see all the experts ( most of who have never done a Hobart) bagging the entire WO program. Like it or not WOXI is an Australian sporting icon up their with Phar lap, Bradman and Rosewall. And Mr Coney can stare at the LH trophy that he bought all he wants but there will always be that knowlage that he in fact wasn't the first boat over the line. I think some true class would have been to not go ahead with the protest and to acknolage that the incerdent had nothing to do with the outcome and he was beaten by a better crew on a slower boat.  Flame away you haters...

And Wild Oats didn't buy their trophies?

Wild Oats are not comparable to Bradman using any measure.

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2 minutes ago, ralph wiggum said:

And Wild Oats didn't buy their trophies?

Wild Oats are not comparable to Bradman using any measure.

Are you familiar with 'IMHO'? 

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21 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

I agree there were several Dick moves- Ricko's brain fart and JC accepting a trophy he didn't actually win. Who the fuck would want a LH trophy under that circumstances? Or to have your name on the race record knowing that another boat was in fact 23 minutes faster? I guess some people don't care how they collect their trophys as long as they get them.

crying-baby-know-313x207.jpg

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21 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

I agree there were several Dick moves- Ricko's brain fart and JC accepting a trophy he didn't actually win. Who the fuck would want a LH trophy under that circumstances? Or to have your name on the race record knowing that another boat was in fact 23 minutes faster? I guess some people don't care how they collect their trophys as long as they get them.

Don't feed this particular troll.

He has a few days to make up.

Of course in Div 2 of the Keppel Race there are no rules so of course he is a fan boy!

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Slept in this morning.  Went to bed content, woke up to find that it was not a dream at all. 

The RRS does indeed apply to every boat in the fleet and it does calmly and effectively work through the protest system.

Ahhhhhh,  so good to see.  The universe is in balance, the force is good.

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5 minutes ago, lydia said:

Don't feed this particular troll.

He has a few days to make up.

Of course in Div 2 of the Keppel Race there are no rules so of course he is a fan boy!

You might need to narrow down the troll part, we have several recent arrivals. 

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47 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Like it or not WOXI is an Australian sporting icon up their with Phar lap, Bradman and Rosewall.

But not Cathy Freeman?

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

In that case you are going to wind up with your nuts wired to a car battery and your severed cock stuffed in your mouth.

Mate seriously, if that was supposed to be funny, it's not.

It's seriously fucked up.

Go off and have a good cry about the diesel powered swiss army knife getting s lesson in basic sailing rules.  Back off on your violent fantasies and come back to us when you are better.

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

After working there for 16 years and being in countless meetings that went on and on because they can’t reach a consensus and the manager is incapable of making a decision because they feared upsetting one side, it became very tiresome. I appreciated the occasional encounters with Finnish managers for their ability to make a decision, no matter how stupid it was.

I dunno.  Sounds like you were working with the wrong Swedes.  And you stayed in for 16 years.  Did you ever consider that maybe you paid to babysit the wrong Swedes.

But I definitely agree that the Danes would show up at the hearing already well into their beer.  Smashing place, that Denmark...

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6 hours ago, Ozee Adventure said:

What year was that?

In my head a pirouette would have been an international sensation, especially from above.

June 2017 after the start of Espoo Suursaari race in Finland. 

 

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On 12/27/2017 at 8:05 PM, LB 15 said:

So you know better than him? Stop making an ignorant cunt of yourself Dick wit. They can take all the trophys away but the truth remains. The are about to win there 8th Hobart race.

So you teach sailing and moonlight as a highly paid expert witness for all things marine? :D:D

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1 hour ago, NORBowGirl said:

Not racist, but stereotyping. Quite a typical trait. 

Perhaps read that over again before posting.  Oh the irony.

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14 minutes ago, forss said:

Fun times for some boats

I would not want to be onboard Garmin

5a45660786c56_ScreenShot2017-12-28at23_43_42.png.4072ec1a986df39aa942b0fa4b3147ce.png

That’s painful just to watch. 

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26 minutes ago, DtM said:

Perhaps read that over again before posting.  Oh the irony.

No irony detected. 

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3 hours ago, Steve Clark said:

Just in case anyone gives a shit what I think.

There was a wind shift to the left in between the two outer marks.

Oats got a port tack ride back into contact with Comanche and Black Jack.

This was just an accident of timing, if they had been further ahead at the first turning mark, they wouldn't have had the leverage.  So it wasn't a case of their superior speed finally digging them out of their poor start. Their poor start put them in the right place at the right time.

Comanche eats as much of the lefty as they can stand, and finally thinking it isn't going to shift back they tack to take their lumps and get into the new breeze.  Tacking Comanche without diesel winches is slower than for Wild Oats. As a result minimizing tacks is part of their strategy.

As they converge, the port shift wanes and the sure cross looks like a close cross.  The on board video from Wild Oats shows them making bearing on Comanche until Ricko changes helm stations.   From that vantage point, I would venture to say that they could have crossed, with maybe an I owe you one on the side.  They are not on the layline for the mark, so they are going to have to tack twice anyway.  Having just ridden a lefty, they probably still want to own the left.

If Oats  tacks  safely to leeward of Comanche, she will be pinned from the mark, unable to tack until Comanche tacks.  As a result they attempt a slam dunk and fail. Ricko has been doing things like this with Wild Oats and getting away with if for quite a while, which explains his "rules are different" comment.  Others may sail the race, but Wild Oats owns it.

Either Comanche waving them across, or Wild Oats tacking safely to leeward and ahead were the prudent choices. Many times big boats in congested waters are a little lax with rule enforcement just to prevent stupid and unsafe situations.  Mark Richards' lack of judgement robbed Wild Oats XI of a place in the record books.  Sure Wild Oats XI could be called Grandfather's Axe because there is almost nothing left of the original boat, but she has been an historic yacht with a great record. If she is to be sold or retired, it would have been on a very high note and possibly holding a record which will not be broken any time soon. 

SHC

 

Oatley gave an interview on the dock when the boat arrived. He was adamant:

1. no decision on entering the 2018 race.

2. WOXI will not be sold.

I'm guessing that December 2018 will see it doing the backpacker thing on Hammo.

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6 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Richo is the gift which just keeps giving in the denial department. (ABC News, my emphasis)

"It's not very often you smash a Sydney to Hobart record and get it taken away from you."

Not one word or even a inference from Team WOXI that they fucked up....  just the we have been robbed shit. Murray normally post race, can't be missed and chasing reporters. Now MIA and he is not a guy easy to hide. 

Total bunch of fucking wankers...who had a small window of opportunity post hearing to show some good grace and can't even muster that up.

Good riddance to you.

Anyone got the link to this ABC interview.

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58 minutes ago, By the lee said:
Quote

Wild Oats XI’s skipper, Mark Richards and Sandy Oatley representing the Oatley family, were gracious in defeat.

Richards said, “Obviously we’re very disappointed, but the international jury had a job to do. They saw the incident the way they saw it, we saw it a little bit differently, but the result is the result and we have to respect the decision of the jury.”

Sandy Oatley added: “We’d just like to congratulate Jim Cooney and his crew for their success, and move forward.”

....they seem to have missed the part where Richards claims nothing less than a.....  ''Moral Victory''!!  :mellow:    :lol:

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5 hours ago, mad said:

As far as I’m aware CQS has only been around really since the last S2H, since then has done the Fastnet, middle sea and a transatlantic race. So it would be interesting to see them throw a quick spin, especially with those wings etc. 

Huh ?

CQS has been around under different names absolutely forever. That's why it is so slow - it's ancient. It won LH in the Fastnet in 95 and 97 plus the Hobart in 2000 and 2004.

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

I agree there were several Dick moves- Ricko's brain fart and JC accepting a trophy he didn't actually win. Who the fuck would want a LH trophy under that circumstances? Or to have your name on the race record knowing that another boat was in fact 23 minutes faster? I guess some people don't care how they collect their trophys as long as they get them.

WOXI deserved what she got. Any sensible skipper would have done his pirouettes in that situation (not to mention not getting into that situation in the first place). Far too risky to rely on a protest committee to see it their way. It’s absurd to chastise Comanche for playing fair and square within the rules of the game. 

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8 minutes ago, lydia said:

Anyone got the link to this ABC interview.

Looks like the ABC has edited that out <_<

appears in google results BUT not in the current page

1.jpg.77b275c9f83c59d30e1247e45848a7ad.jpg

however

there are two links to the quote , neither cites an author ........

http://newswirenow.co.uk/2017/12/28/comanche-takes-sydney-to-hobart-after-wild-oats-xi-penalised/

https://newsco.com.au/newsco-com-au-sydney-to-hobart-comanche-takes-line-honours-after-wild-oats-xi-penalised/

 

 

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6 minutes ago, savoir said:

Huh ?

CQS has been around under different names absolutely forever. That's why it is so slow - it's ancient. It won LH in the Fastnet in 95 and 97 plus the Hobart in 2000 and 2004.

Different boats. 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Different boats. 

 

 

 

OK, the Fastnet boat was different but not the 2004 Hobart winner. Just different names . . . . . and a few mods.

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8 hours ago, HILLY said:

A boat may take a Two-Turns Penalty when she may have broken one or more rules of Part 2 in an incident while racing.

I agree, it does say the Two Turn Penalty SHALL apply, RRS 44.1 states that a boat MAY take a 2 turn penalty. As M.R. didn't believe that he fouled C, and don't forget he was closer to the incident than the helm / afterguard on C, then he apparently chose not to do the turns..

I hope you understand that SHALL & MAY have 2 seperate meanings.

Note that "may" appears twice in that sentence, which means you may take the penalty even when you don't think you have broken any rule. But if you know you have broken a rule, you must take the penalty. This comes from the basic principles under sportmanship:

"A fundamental principle of sportsmanship is that when competitors break a rule they will promptly take a penalty, which may be to retire."

If you don't take the penalty in a very clear situation you may be protested under Rule 2, which may even lead to Rule 69. Unfortunately that is rarely used and way too many sailors do not do the turns even in very clear cases. Note that it is not necessary even to hail protest. One should just do the turns when they know they have broken a rule.

I don't think the WO vs. C case was that clear so I can understand that WO may have thought they did not break any rule.

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2 minutes ago, savoir said:

Nope, just different names . . . . . and a few mods.

Someone can fill in the blanks but the basics: 

Started with the original 80' 

1999 He got the new water ballasted SV hull cheap

2003 Converted it to canting keel. 

2004 New 90' Boat 

2011 Extended the 90'

2016 Built the new hull 

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18 minutes ago, Joakim said:

 

I don't think the WO vs. C case was that clear so I can understand that WO may have thought they did not break any rule.

Mate, you need a new TV.

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Guys, it is not about racing, it is all about the advertising money.

The coverage of the race on live TV is on Australian channel 7.   What logo is on WOXI? You guessed it, a big 7.   So obviously the coverage is going to be biased, with a strong focus on WOXI.    The TV coverage is also all about the maxis out front for the first few hours.  The ideal for CH7 is to have WOXI out front, so that the cameras can linger on that sail with the 7 on it.   

Ritcho cocks up the start, so now he has to get back in the middle of the TV screen.   A lot of money hangs on that, so he is highly stressed and makes a basic mistake.  He knows that if he does the required turns, (A) most importantly, he will drop off the TV screen of the leaders, for that most important part of the first few hours, when the big advertising benefit lies.  (B) Turning back and doing the turns in a 100ft maxi with 100 plus racing yachts heading at you in a narrow channel, is going to be full of risk, (C) Probably the penalty will only be maybe 10 minutes.

What would you do?

So he goes for the obvious choice and toughs it out.  

IMHO the international jury worked it out as above, and maybe decided on a stiff penalty to discourage the high level of commercialisation, but also playing chicken with gazillion dollar boats.

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5 minutes ago, Kududine said:

Guys, it is not about racing, it is all about the advertising money.

The coverage of the race on live TV is on Australian channel 7.   What logo is on WOXI? You guessed it, a big 7.   So obviously the coverage is going to be biased, with a strong focus on WOXI.    The TV coverage is also all about the maxis out front for the first few hours.  The ideal for CH7 is to have WOXI out front, so that the cameras can linger on that sail with the 7 on it.   

Ritcho cocks up the start, so now he has to get back in the middle of the TV screen.   A lot of money hangs on that, so he is highly stressed and makes a basic mistake.  He knows that if he does the required turns, (A) most importantly, he will drop off the TV screen of the leaders, for that most important part of the first few hours, when the big advertising benefit lies.  (B) Turning back and doing the turns in a 100ft maxi with 100 plus racing yachts heading at you in a narrow channel, is going to be full of risk, (C) Probably the penalty will only be maybe 10 minutes.

What would you do?

So he goes for the obvious choice and toughs it out.  

IMHO the international jury worked it out as above, and maybe decided on a stiff penalty to discourage the high level of commercialisation, but also playing chicken with gazillion dollar boats.

In all the years Ritcho has been around, has he ever shown any appreciation of how to work the press, ensure marketability, stuff that any real commerical sponsor organizer does?

I think that's a bridge too far. 

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I think I've said this in previous Hobart posts, but what is everyone's thought on a "penalty box" outside the heads specifically for the Hobart? Oats most likely had the room and time to do turns where they were but it can be a complete shit fight if you have to do it inside the harbour. It really is pretty tight when you are hemmed in by the spectator fleet and it's not that easy to get out of the way to lay down some circle work. It would also give the brains trust a little more time to think it over as there is a heap going on just trying to get outside cleanly in the first place. Same deal with OCS? I think a couple of boats had to head back which can be a nightmare. Once safely outside send them north to a penalty box to do turns?

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1 hour ago, savoir said:

Huh ?

CQS has been around under different names absolutely forever. That's why it is so slow - it's ancient. It won LH in the Fastnet in 95 and 97 plus the Hobart in 2000 and 2004.

I’m talking about it’s current guise as the cut and shut mutant with the wings and modified rig and foil package. 

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