dachopper

Sydney to Hobart 2017

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Boatbeard said:

Well, WOXI sailed a fantastic race and well deserved line honours.

Failing to give way on port, or do anything other than that horrible tack right there - and then not taking the penalty when clearly hailed to do so means they have to cop it sweet.  Any kid sailing in our club past Opti green fleet knows give way to the right and take the penalty when called for a stuff up.  So there it is.  A trophy on a shelf with line honours on it,  a million pages of rants and twaddle and a thousand drunken bar arguments for years to come - and hopefully a rematch without the bs next year...

Congratulations to Comanche, also a fantastic race and the winner of the 2017 S2H.

Plus 1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, paps49 said:

I know Scan, I was agreeing with you.

My mistake. Carry on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

He are the only two precedents for Line Honour stripping in the S2H and known by everyone before starting to be arguably arbitary. They has been one time/place penalty and one DSQ up to 2017.

1990 - Rothmans LH and 2nd HC.

Penalised  chain smoking Laurie Smith 10% of placings 20% on corrected time and stripped her of the line honours award for breaking Rule 26 (advertising) by flying a spinnaker with an illegal logo on it out of sight in the middle of Bass Strait.

IJ decision was Ragamuffin was awarded line honours, and first place overall on IOR corrected times went to Sagacious V.

1983 - Nirvana LH.

Bob Bell’s Condor of Bermuda and American Marvin Green’s Nirvana, were sailing side by side up the Derwent when Nirvana forced Condor into the shallows six nautical miles from the finish line.

Condor was stuck on a rock for five minutes and Nirvana won by two minutes and 16 seconds.

IJ ruled against Nirvana and she was disqualified and line honours awarded to Condor.

Anyone moaning and groaning about WOXI's 1 hour time or 1 place penalty need to give themselves an uppercut in light of the above precedents. There are many with some justification it should have been much stiffer.

 

I had the pleasure of sailing with Chas aboard Rothmans in the Sydney Hobart Race of 1990. It was a race that none on board will ever forget. The race record was within our grasp and the wind shut off. We had earlier torn a three-quarter ounce spinnaker to shreds and when we needed another, it had a Rothmans logo (which was against the rules for this race) on it, but it was argued that it wouldn’t be seen by anyone. However, we had not considered the presence of a photographer in a helicopter and Rothmans was penalised ten places at the finish.

https://www.facebook.com/chasfromTas/posts/1726283837642442

12741961_1685200565084103_4878787950493679487_n.jpg

 

Rothmans roaring across Bass Strait in the 1990 Sydney Hobart Race. The Admiral, Don Buckley, broke his collar bone, the boat took on about seven tons or more of water through the domed hatchway, she lost the spinnaker, down below was chaos and waist deep, the sails were awash inside the boat and Speizy was swept out of his bunk and ended up in the bow. When Rothmans took a nose dive at 26 knots like a submarine the cameras on this film couldn't record the moment as they too were submerged. For all this she was the first yacht home.
Thanks to crew member and photographer Rick Tomlinson for the photo.
Amongst a bunch of great guys and august crew members were skipper Lawrie Smith, Shag, Bob Fisher, Don Buckley, Dave Powys, Gordon McGuire, Paul Stanbridge and Chas.
If you want to see that race from on board Rothmans go to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7-JEL-LXAo
for some more great action shots
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SCANAS said:

Who said there was one rule for the rich (& the 100'rs) ?

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has been issued a $250 fine by NSW Maritime Services this afternoon after he failed to don a life jacket on Sydney Harbour this week.

Just saw that, what a stupid nanny state :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Mid said:

We had earlier torn a three-quarter ounce spinnaker to shreds and when we needed another, it had a Rothmans logo (which was against the rules for this race) on it, but it was argued that it wouldn’t be seen by anyone.

Thanks for mentioning that Mid, I didn't think to do so.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There really are some stupid subjective, ingnorantly written or emotionally charged comments here.  OK -Time to put this to bed...

1.  The incident - A poorly executed leebow?  Hesitation during a cross?  Hesitation in a slam dunk?  Poor on board comms between the after guard?  Who knows?  Who cares?  We've all been there.  People make mistakes.  Get over it.

2 The rules - Rule 13, simple.  Only Rules 13, 14 and rule 16.1 are considered.  The jury concluded that LDVC did not change course, so 16.1 can be ruled out.  LDVC acted to avoid contact, and there was no collision, so rule 14 out.They concluded that LDVC had to take action to avoid while WOXI was tacking.  That's all.

No point in discussing rule 10 now.  That expired when WOXI passed HTW.  No point in discussing rule 15.  That only occurs after WOXI reached close-hauled.  No point in discussing 16.2.  At no time was WOXI sailing to pass astern of LDVC.

3.  Not taking a penalty - That is the right of any boat.  If they believe that they did not break a rule, or were not sure because it was close (and judging by this discussion it was), then they have a right to take their chances in the protest room.  This does not represent poor sportsmanship or even foolishness. It is in the rules for them to do.  Both parties (including WOXI agree that it was close, with WOXI crew proposing a 50/50 situation).   If they knew they had broken a rule, then yes, we could question sportsmanship.  In this case, no. Move along.

In reflection, they may have misjudged how close it was, and kick themselves for that.  We may all have acted differently.  It probably was a poor risk/reward judgement.  However, at the time, her decision to continue was justified and within the rules and principals of sportsmanship, since they thought they had not broken a rule, or were not convinced enough to take a penalty at the time.  Her right to make that call.

4 The Protest - Nothing wrong with LDVC's decision to take this to the room.  It is a fundimental principal of all competitors to enforce the rules.  That's all she did.  Not doing that is possibly more destructive to the sport.  Furthermore, if you believe in the rules and that they are a part of the sport, then you should fully support her decision to go ahead (for whatever motives - win, principals, morals, sponsor pressure, etc...) with the protest.  Both boats agreed to be bound by the rules; those rules include the protest and penalty procedure.

5.  The Time Penalty - Of course it needs to be more than 5 minutes in order to be a penalty! Duh!    The penalty must be in line with the penalty system of the event.  In the SIs for this event specify penalties ranging from 5 minutes minimum to DSQ.  In between those extremes are 20% for not submitting a declaration, 30% for an offshore breach of Part 2 and OCS, 40% as maximum time penalty, and then DSQ for the most heinous of crimes.  It stands to reason that the time penalty for an inshore breach of Part 2 should be somewhere between not submitting a declaration on time, and the offshore Part 2.  So 20-30% of position in her division.  That's what the jury did. Her time penalty worsened her IRC Div 0 position by about 20-30% of all the IRC Div 0 boats.

Discretionary Penalties (DPs) are becoming more popular.  There is even a new scoring code for it.  The principal suggests that not all rule breaches are the same.  That seems sensible.  Good practice is still being developed.  If DP is to be used, Race Organisers and Juries need to have a clear penalty structure for DPs, which is fair and well known.  Many events already have one, which they publish to competitors.  In this S2H, the SIs were a little ambiguous.  Maybe more structure and guidance could be given on the penalty system.

6.  Winning in the room - WTF?  No one has won in the room. The incident took place on the water in this case.

Those who think that this is sea-lawyering or 'winning in the room' are normally the ones who either don't know all the rules or don't fully respect the rules.  If they did, they would know that in this sport, there is no way to resolve some on-the-water conflicts, other than going to the room.  They would know that the rules are designed to give competitors the chance to exonerate OR to have the decision reached by an independent panel.  They would know that not enforcing the rules (including the 'Oh, forget about it!' approach) is not good for the sport.

7.  WOXI's Elapsed Time - Her RACE Elapsed Time is the time she took in this 'event/race/competition'.  In this race it was 01:09:15:24.  That is 33 minutes behind LDVC.  There is NO OTHER elapsed time. End Of.

8.  Race Record - Read it carefully...the 'RACE' record.  That is a record set during an edition of Sydney to Hobart Race.  The race record is only held by a boat who has sailed the course correctly, and complied with the rules or taken penalties under the rules for any breaches made during the race.  WOXI did not break any race record this year.  Unlucky.  LDVC did.

9.  'The Fastest Crossing Between Sydney and Hobart' - If someone wants to go and make a seperate unrelated trophy for 'The Fastest Crossing Between Sydney and Hobart', then go ahead and give it to WOXI! Well done her.

See how long it lasts though, before people abuse that trophy's lack of moderation.  The organised S2H race event is the moderator of that record for a reason.  It sets bounds within we can be comfortable that a boat has acheived that feat fairly and measurably.  In which case WOXI did not gain any known record.

10.  The messages this sends to kids and non-sailors - That sailing is a complex sport.  That even the best make mistakes.  That if you break a rule you may (and should) be penalised.  That even long races can be so close that a single penalty can make the difference between winning and losing.

11.  WOXI attitude after the decision? - Whatever!  Of course they will be disappointed!  They thought they were right!  Someone always goes away dissatisfied after a hearing.  Moral win?  Fine; let them enjoy the fact that they sailed very fast, if that is what they want to measure their success by.  Let's face it, they did sail fast and well.  Just from the 'race' point of view they did not beat LDVC (see #7).  Nothing in that interview suggested WOXI were not accepting the decision.

That's about it.

Well done to LDVC.  Well done to Ichi Ban and all the others who won divisions, got on the podium or achieved a personal best.

  • Like 15

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These rules are so stupid.

 

Wild Oats should have kept the line honors and been penalized a fixed amount.

 

To have a penalty that is undefinable and ranges from a turn to 5 minutes to being banned from the sport.......... seems a little bronze aged to me.

  • Downvote 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Dog Watch said:

There really are some stupid subjective, ingnorantly written or emotionally charged comments here.  OK -Time to put this to bed...

 

When you opened with that I thought "here we go ..."

But that was an awesome post, a refreshing beer after a long day, a ray of sanity in this crazy disturbing thread.

Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, dachopper said:

 

To have a penalty that is undefinable and ranges from a turn to 5 minutes to being banned from the sport.......... seems a little bronze aged to me.

The RRS don't fucking care what you think and you look foolish saying that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Just saw that, what a stupid nanny state :ph34r:

Moving it from his private dock back to his beach - 20metres. Surely they can show some discretion, terrible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, lydia said:

TSA Management and Calibre

TSA had the division win until the parking lot at Tasman now Mayfair which sailed up on the new pressure looks the goods.

I see that TSA beat Calibre by 10min 22 seconds.

Mondo is expected to finish 3 hours later. Ray might need to drop the price a fair bit if he wants to sell Mondo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, dachopper said:

These rules are so stupid.

 

Wild Oats should have kept the line honors and been penalized a fixed amount.

 

To have a penalty that is undefinable and ranges from a turn to 5 minutes to being banned from the sport.......... seems a little bronze aged to me.

5 pages or so of rabid discussion and character assassination and thats all you got?    "These rules are stupid" ?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there's an echo in here :P

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Moving it from his private dock back to his beach - 20metres. Surely they can show some discretion, terrible.

Yeah, a fucking joke. It would be nice to think that they fined him because showing discretion would might appear to look bad, but I suspect that they'd nab anyone because they like to be dicks.

What is the law? The article I read seems to imply that you must wear the LJ because he was alone but it he was with someone, having LJ's onboard was sufficient. It makes me wonder if I must wear a LJ if I solo my yacht? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TSA have been doing it a long time. If you look back to when they had the Syd38 one design division some goods teams came through. Scarlett Runner, Rupert Henry, Lou Abrams, Chutzpah, Goat Syndicate, Zen, Yeah baby guys & others shame it died out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Dog Watch said:

Nothing in that interview suggested WOXI were not accepting the decision.

Great post up until this bit. WOXI accepting or not is irrelevant, the decision can't be appealed.

Outside the one post decision interview you refer to, their public comments including those of crew prior to and after the IJ decision are not accepting of the rules and the decision. Furthermore they are directed at diminishing Comanche's place in the record books.

Dog other than that ommision a damm fine read. Thank you.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Yeah, a fucking joke. It would be nice to think that they fined him because showing discretion would might appear to look bad, but I suspect that they'd nab anyone because they like to be dicks.

What is the law? The article I read seems to imply that you must wear the LJ because he was alone but it he was with someone, having LJ's onboard was sufficient. It makes me wonder if I must wear a LJ if I solo my yacht? 

Solo under 4.8m in NSW that article says. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, SCANAS said:

TSA have been doing it a long time. If you look back to when they had the Syd38 one design division some goods teams came through. Scarlett Runner, Rupert Henry, Lou Abrams, Chutzpah, Goat Syndicate, Zen, Yeah baby guys & others shame it died out. 

I guess as the boats get older and are in need of upgrades and refits, owners decide to spend money on equipment that might make the boat better for IRC racing or easier to race with smaller crews etc. rather than keeping it within strict one design rules?  Maybe the S38 OD fleet would have a resurgence if they eased off the OD rules and introduce handicapping to even out high and low budget teams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Solo under 4.8m in NSW that article says. 

Ahhh... can't be bothered looking up the Vic rules. Never did the licence test here as I got my Swedish coast skipper qualification transferred.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I see that TSA beat Calibre by 10min 22 seconds.

Mondo is expected to finish 3 hours later. Ray might need to drop the price a fair bit if he wants to sell Mondo.

Hoopy, put us all out our misery on the other thread.

Hop on a plane to Hobart this evening.

Offer Ray $70k at the dock.

Problem solved.

Ray does not have to deliver back to Qld and you don't exceed your budget.

The new mainsail is a glamour by the way so be sure to get it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I guess as the boats get older and are in need of upgrades and refits, owners decide to spend money on equipment that might make the boat better for IRC racing or easier to race with smaller crews etc. rather than keeping it within strict one design rules?  Maybe the S38 OD fleet would have a resurgence if they eased off the OD rules and introduce handicapping to even out high and low budget teams.

Quite the opposite, sail restrictions are the harshest I have come across.

And for good reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone on HotelPlanner one of the Clippers went for a swim. This vid from the Clipper thread is interesting  with regard to the guy who unfortunately died on the last leg and was clipped on.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw the TV coverage of the WOXI-Comanche crossing on the day and to my eye it looked like a fairly straightforward port-starboard situation with WOXI the burdened vessel throughout the interaction.

I might have missed it but I saw nothing from that camera angle indicating Comanche was "hunting" WOXI.

Others have already noted the failure of WOXI to just do their 720 after the foul, which would have taken, I don't know, a few minutes, so would not have hurt their elapsed time win of 27 minutes.

What I am wondering is, seeing the close crossing situation developing, why didn't the WOXI afterguard just duck Comanche? A duck would have cost WOXI a few boatlengths. Certainly a lot less than a 720, and way less than what they were penalised. The video doesn't show the whole tactical situation so there may have something that made them decide not to duck that I couldn't see. (someone may have already commented on this but I'm not going to go through the whole thread)

I too was surprised at Richards' comment that somehow the rules are different in the S-H race. Really? Well he was right in one sense. In a regular round-the-buoys race WOXI would have been DSQ-ed not  given a time penalty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, lydia said:

Quite the opposite, sail restrictions are the harshest I have come across.

And for good reason.

In what way? Sail restrictions keep the cost down? 

I can understand that strict OD rules will keep the boats even and perhaps the costs down. However, I can imagine that owners might decide to buy new tech sails to make the boat faster for IRC, ORCi, AMS or PHS club racing and ocean races and not spend money on OD sails, so they quit the OD fleets. If they allow modified S38's in the regattas, suitably handicapped, then they should get more yachts in the fleets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, whoward said:

What I am wondering is, seeing the close crossing situation developing, why didn't the WOXI afterguard just duck Comanche? A duck would have cost WOXI a few boatlengths.

Add by WOXI's judgement 4/5m gap at the incident plus say the same pre incident plus 35m of boat and prodder = say 45 metres. That is a big duck.

They thought they were safely through then weren't or knew they they were dead and fucked up execution of a lee bow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, hoppy said:

In what way? Sail restrictions keep the cost down? 

I can understand that strict OD rules will keep the boats even and perhaps the costs down. However, I can imagine that owners might decide to buy new tech sails to make the boat faster for IRC, ORCi, AMS or PHS club racing and ocean races and not spend money on OD sails, so they quit the OD fleets. If they allow modified S38's in the regattas, suitably handicapped, then they should get more yachts in the fleets.

Hoppy

check you PMs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

TSA have been doing it a long time. If you look back to when they had the Syd38 one design division some goods teams came through. Scarlett Runner, Rupert Henry, Lou Abrams, Chutzpah, Goat Syndicate, Zen, Yeah baby guys & others shame it died out. 

Not meaning to be prickly Scan but I think Lou got started a bit before that. The 38 was almost a retirement project.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

Add by WOXI's judgement 4/5m gap at the incident plus say the same pre incident plus 35m of boat and prodder = say 45 metres. That is a big duck.

Perhaps.  But again as experienced a crew as WOXI's surely would have seen the crossing developing and anticipated? It's a long race, and surely they must have been weighing that against whatever tactical advantage they'd gain in a boat-to-boat tangle with Comanche so early in the race.

I wasn't there so I don't know what Richards and Murray were thinking. But they made mistakes in 1) misjudging the crossing and 2) not doing their turns. I've been there, done that. Taking a port-starboard situation to the protest room if you are the port boat is generally, in my experience, a loser. Better to do your turns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SCANAS said:

Lydia why does Ariel rate lower? Different mast or sails?

 

Suspect it is the standard Hobart optimization, offshore mainsail with smaller girths and no roach.

Mainsail area is very expensive.

Scan, on the old boat we had a Hobart configuration test Ct of 1.063 by pulling similar tricks.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Dropping_ec22cd_6273115.gif

 

WTDnnwE.gif

696.gif

Dropping_b87261_6273115.gif

Dropping_d1ce65_6273115.gif

Dropping_5bc43b_6273115.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, By the lee said:

Infotrack did what?

Came last.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, lydia said:

Suspect it is the standard Hobart optimization, offshore mainsail with smaller girths and no roach.

Mainsail area is very expensive.

 

Ok thanks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, paps49 said:

Not meaning to be prickly Scan but I think Lou got started a bit before that. The 38 was almost a retirement project.

True. I probably missed other good teams. I was just looking at how many boats they had in the class per year, saw Scarlett runner & Chutzpah & had a poke around. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, whoward said:

I saw the TV coverage of the WOXI-Comanche crossing on the day and to my eye it looked like a fairly straightforward port-starboard situation with WOXI the burdened vessel throughout the interaction.

I might have missed it but I saw nothing from that camera angle indicating Comanche was "hunting" WOXI.

Others have already noted the failure of WOXI to just do their 720 after the foul, which would have taken, I don't know, a few minutes, so would not have hurt their elapsed time win of 27 minutes.

What I am wondering is, seeing the close crossing situation developing, why didn't the WOXI afterguard just duck Comanche? A duck would have cost WOXI a few boatlengths. Certainly a lot less than a 720, and way less than what they were penalised. The video doesn't show the whole tactical situation so there may have something that made them decide not to duck that I couldn't see. (someone may have already commented on this but I'm not going to go through the whole thread)

I too was surprised at Richards' comment that somehow the rules are different in the S-H race. Really? Well he was right in one sense. In a regular round-the-buoys race WOXI would have been DSQ-ed not  given a time penalty.

The way I saw it was after C tacked WO thought they were ahead due to C bouncing about on the waves, C started to gain speed, WO still thought they were ahead, C kept gaining speed and the WO realised to late that it was going to be tight, tacked and fucked it up as it was too late and you know the rest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, lydia said:

Suspect it is the standard Hobart optimization, offshore mainsail with smaller girths and no roach.

Mainsail area is very expensive.

Scan, on the old boat we had a Hobart configuration test Ct of 1.063 by pulling similar tricks.

 

1.063 Would put it right up there in this race. Smaller kites too? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dog Watch said:

 

9.  'The Fastest Crossing Between Sydney and Hobart' - If someone wants to go and make a seperate unrelated trophy for 'The Fastest Crossing Between Sydney and Hobart', then go ahead and give it to WOXI! Well done her.

See how long it lasts though, before people abuse that trophy's lack of moderation.  The organised S2H race event is the moderator of that record for a reason.  It sets bounds within we can be comfortable that a boat has acheived that feat fairly and measurably.  In which case WOXI did not gain any known record.

 

Then you have to add - "by a monohull"....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, mad said:

Matt Mason should really give up being a team spokesman. 

He should give up his Kiwi card too while he's at it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

1.063 Would put it right up there in this race. Smaller kites too? 

A little, just the old ones still on the boat

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No confirmation but that silly twat on ABC just stated Wox have announced they will start in '18.

Maybe Jimmy did Richo a favour?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 28/12/2017 at 4:04 PM, Apparent Lee said:

My post yesterday - to be clear This protest  is a storm in a tea cup, Oats had completed their tack before Pit Bull was overlapped, .. International Jury will dismiss this... as fluff or I will wear rabbit ears to the CYCA prize giving, as promised to SCANAS...

I just suddenly realised you carry those ears on your good person at all times and ready to done. Good planning.

Can I suggest a red bow tie will accentuate the ear colouring. An eye colour clash is not an issue being always closed.

unnamed (3).gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

(Snip)

While Ricko was pulling off that move was he wearing boxers or briefs?

It was such a loose move, he must have been commando. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, rogerfal said:

Understanding that a stereotype is just that, is possibly the first step towards not being a racist

This is very off topic, but you need to understand that this is innocent fun between the nordic countries, about our differences. Nothing racist about it, it comes from affection and special bonds. A Dane can call me a mountain monkey to my face and I can reply that not even other Danes understand what you're saying. As an example. 

Carry on :)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah he had to buy a trailer to carry the sails. Ive never seen that offshore main hoisted. He'll be back into next year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I just suddenly realised you carry those ears on your good person at all times and ready to done. Good planning.

Can I suggest a red bow tie will accentuate the ear colouring. An eye colour clash is not an issue being always closed.

unnamed (3).gif

I don't remember being any part of that deal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, paps49 said:

No confirmation but that silly twat on ABC just stated Wox have announced they will start in '18.

Maybe Jimmy did Richo a favour?

Maybe for his ego. Not sure he needs the money. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anything come of Blackjack 4 stacking sails? Slingers posted a video on his instagram and they were stacking on Infotrack as well...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, HMM263 said:

Does Matt Mason post as Sclarke on here?

Oh...now that's a low blow for Clarkey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, whoward said:

Taking a port-starboard situation to the protest room if you are the port boat is generally, in my experience, a loser. Better to do your turns.

Except it wasn't a port starboard incident in that the tack had had been made and both on starboard, the question was whether it had been completed or not and whether WOXI was in the clear with rights so placing Comanche with the responsibility to avoid a collision. The IJ determined WOXI had no such rights and were penalised accordingly. 

Pays to read here first before posting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, HMM263 said:

Has anything come of Blackjack 4 stacking sails? Slingers posted a video on his instagram and they were stacking on Infotrack as well...

Doubt anything will. Still unfortunate to see..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, ASP said:
30 minutes ago, HMM263 said:

Has anything come of Blackjack 4 stacking sails? Slingers posted a video on his instagram and they were stacking on Infotrack as well...

Doubt anything will. Still unfortunate to see..

Squark will probably just laugh but it's cheating.  Respect reduced accordingly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Except it wasn't a port starboard incident in that the tack had had been made and both on starboard, the question was whether it had been completed or not and whether WOXI was in the clear with rights so placing Comanche with the responsibility to avoid a collision. The IJ determined WOXI had no such rights and were penalised accordingly. 

Pays to read here first before posting.

Still a port -starboard situation as WOXI hadn't completed the tack and established rights. IMO.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, whoward said:

Still a port -starboard situation as WOXI hadn't completed the tack and established rights. IMO.

Your wrong. Port / Starboard Rule 10  ceased after WOXI passed HTW. It then became a Rule 13 when a boat that is tacking (changing tack and tack not completed) shall keep clear of boats that are not tacking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Except it wasn't a port starboard incident in that the tack had had been made and both on starboard, the question was whether it had been completed or not and whether WOXI was in the clear with rights so placing Comanche with the responsibility to avoid a collision. The IJ determined WOXI had no such rights and were penalised accordingly. 

Pays to read here first before posting.

11 minutes ago, whoward said:

Still a port -starboard situation as WOXI hadn't completed the tack and established rights. IMO.

 

 

JS is correct.

 

Middle sentence of Rule 13 applies.  Rule 10 did not apply. 

 

13 WHILE TACKING
After a boat passes head to wind, she shall keep clear of other boats until she is on a close-hauled course.
During that time rules 10, 11 and 12 do not apply. If two boats are subject to this rule at the same time, the one on the other’s port side or the one astern shall keep clear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So anyway what was the verdict of last sail stacking case? 

& Did Bumblebee V end up in the bin they got it up to Rivergate didn't they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NORBowGirl said:

This is very off topic, but you need to understand that this is innocent fun between the nordic countries, about our differences. Nothing racist about it, it comes from affection and special bonds. A Dane can call me a mountain monkey to my face and I can reply that not even other Danes understand what you're saying. As an example. 

Carry on :)

Think you two are on the same tack.

57 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Maybe for his ego. Not sure he needs the money. 

Relevence? Havent beed in here a while, it's like a home coming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sailing shoots itself in the foot at times, poor coverage by the mainstream ie official media partner 7, takes a young lady to do their work, you have yachts leaving before everyone has finished, people spend plenty to come to Hobart to see the yachts and get enthused about them talk to the crew, sailing needs to stand up and have a look at why it cant gain more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hobarts fade into the mind mist, most blur together and it gets harder to remember the details of each. 

This one will not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NORBowGirl said:

This is very off topic, but you need to understand that this is innocent fun between the nordic countries, about our differences. Nothing racist about it, it comes from affection and special bonds. A Dane can call me a mountain monkey to my face and I can reply that not even other Danes understand what you're saying. As an example. 

Carry on :)

They have monkeys in the mountains of Norway ?   Who knew ?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

When did Sydney Harbour shrink?

On Boxing day the maritime authority lays out clear channels for the race, and lines behind which the spectator craft must stay.  Racing craft are not allowed in the spectator area.  There is one hell of a lot of spectator craft, many manned by drunken idiots who do not know the colregs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

The owner of C reckons they were delayed 4-5 minutes by this incident

That's quite strange claim by them. Compared to what? If WO did not exist they may have made it 1-2 minutes faster throgh that part of the race. If WO had tacked 1/4 boat lenght earlier, it would have been a good leebow and damage to C would have been equal to what it was now.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, dachopper said:

These rules are so stupid.

 

Wild Oats should have kept the line honors and been penalized a fixed amount.

 

To have a penalty that is undefinable and ranges from a turn to 5 minutes to being banned from the sport.......... seems a little bronze aged to me.

Grow the fuck up you child! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Joakim said:
7 hours ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

The owner of C reckons they were delayed 4-5 minutes by this incident

That's quite strange claim by them. Compared to what? If WO did not exist they may have made it 1-2 minutes faster throgh that part of the race. If WO had tacked 1/4 boat lenght earlier, it would have been a good leebow and damage to C would have been equal to what it was now.

Speculate on.  You may someday understand that the penalty has little to do with how long the infringed boat was delayed, something not knowable anyway.

It is only about what is the just penalty for the transgression.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Kududine said:

(B) Turning back and doing the turns in a 100ft maxi with 100 plus racing yachts heading at you in a narrow channel, is going to be full of risk, (C) Probably the penalty will only be maybe 10 minutes.

Here is a video of CQS doing 360 in about two minutes:

They did it here (about 0.2 Nm wide channel): https://webapp.navionics.com/?lang=en#boating@12&key={o`nJef_wC

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, random said:

Speculate on.  You may someday understand that the penalty has little to do with how long the infringed boat was delayed, something not knowable anyway.

It is only about what is the just penalty for the transgression.

Not at all my point! As I have said earlier it is a penalty, which in most races would be DSQ or 30% scoring penalty and has nothing to do with time gained or lost due to it. But that does not make comments about C loosing 4-5 minutes on that any better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, NORBowGirl said:

This is very off topic, but you need to understand that this is innocent fun between the nordic countries, about our differences. Nothing racist about it, it comes from affection and special bonds. A Dane can call me a mountain monkey to my face and I can reply that not even other Danes understand what you're saying. As an example. 

Carry on :)

I even have a book about the nice things we Europeans say about each other.....

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Australian Sailing needs a celebrity bad boy that the media like, giving the mainstream media polished trust fund kids just reinforces the rich guy wins yacht race image the public already have. 

"Australian America's cup winning skipper John Smith was spotted sleeping outside his mansion at 3am on Tuesday morning, he shares the house with wife Miranda Kerr but the relationship is rumoured to be on the rocks after he was spotted celebrating his last win on a superyacht in St Bath with a bevy of topless women"

Put a picture of him with wife & kids in the article for good measure, make him the ambassador of a skin cancer charity for his sins, sign him up to dancing with the stars. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

He are the only two precedents for Line Honour stripping in the S2H and known by everyone before starting to be arguably arbitary. They has been one time/place penalty and one DSQ up to 2017.

1990 - Rothmans LH and 2nd HC.

Penalised  chain smoking Laurie Smith 10% of placings 20% on corrected time and stripped her of the line honours award for breaking Rule 26 (advertising) by flying a spinnaker with an illegal logo on it out of sight in the middle of Bass Strait.

IJ decision was Ragamuffin was awarded line honours, and first place overall on IOR corrected times went to Sagacious V.

1983 - Nirvana LH.

Bob Bell’s Condor of Bermuda and American Marvin Green’s Nirvana, were sailing side by side up the Derwent when Nirvana forced Condor into the shallows six nautical miles from the finish line.

Condor was stuck on a rock for five minutes and Nirvana won by two minutes and 16 seconds.

IJ ruled against Nirvana and she was disqualified and line honours awarded to Condor.

Anyone moaning and groaning about WOXI's 1 hour time or 1 place penalty need to give themselves an uppercut in light of the above precedents. There are many with some justification it should have been much stiffer.

PS. In light of failing to take a "on water" penalty in favour of risking a IJ "off water" penalty and looking to Spitball/Comanche to then withdraw their protest, both actions contry to the Rules, Richards needs to get his Blue Book and SI's out. Moaning then about the protest going to the IJ and blaming the other side for that, he should consult a head trauma specialist quick smart.

Then to boot moaning about the IJ penalty in light of the above LH penalty precedents and the rules, then Richo takes the 2017 Cunt Award and should think long and hard about luckily missing a Rule 69 bullet when accepting it.

 

You can tell him that to his face at the Hobart winners reunion Jack. Oh wait. That's right you won't be there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, RKoch said:

When I started sailing, the penalty for touching a mark was dsq.

So I'm not the only old bugger on here RKoch :-)

SS

  • Like 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, random said:

Hobarts fade into the mind mist, most blur together and it gets harder to remember the details of each. 

This one will not.

It sure won't. The next boat to set the race record will have to beat Comarchie's time by 24 mins to know that they really are the fastest boat in the races history. Because we all know that Comarchie isn't. Beaten by a better crew on a slower boat. 

And mate you are really getting into the swing of things outside of PA. must have been quite a shock to find out about the other boards. Anyway tell us a few more of your great racing stories. How about some more about the club you left for your own safety because you were the only person who knew the rules. Come on mate don't be shy...

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, LB 15 said:

How about some more about the club you left for your own safety because you were the only person who new the rules. Come on mate don't be shy...

 

They were dangerous old cunts.  I recall a bottom mark where I shut the gate clear ahead and those on the following craft went fucking ballistic, shouting abuse, not realising that they were in the wrong in colregs, RRS and common dog-fuck.  It had to be explained to them later.  Dangerous place the bay full of old cunts with the first boat. 

Like richo, they think everyone should get out of the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Boatbeard said:

Well, WOXI sailed a fantastic race and well deserved line honours.

Failing to give way on port, or do anything other than that horrible tack right there - and then not taking the penalty when clearly hailed to do so means they have to cop it sweet.  Any kid sailing in our club past Opti green fleet knows give way to the right and take the penalty when called for a stuff up.  So there it is.  A trophy on a shelf with line honours on it,  a million pages of rants and twaddle and a thousand drunken bar arguments for years to come - and hopefully a rematch without the bs next year...

Congratulations to Comanche, also a fantastic race and the winner of the 2017 S2H.

I thought Ichy Bum won? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, random said:

They were dangerous old cunts.  I recall a bottom mark where I shut the gate clear ahead and those on the following craft went fucking ballistic, shouting abuse, not realising that they were in the wrong in colregs, RRS and common dog-fuck.  It had to be explained to them later.  Dangerous place the bay full of old cunts with the first boat. 

Like richo, they think everyone should get out of the way.

This 'rich cunts' seems to be a recurring theme with you. What was the club BTW?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, random said:

They were dangerous old cunts.  I recall a bottom mark where I shut the gate clear ahead and those on the following craft went fucking ballistic, shouting abuse, not realising that they were in the wrong in colregs, RRS and common dog-fuck.  It had to be explained to them later.  Dangerous place the bay full of old cunts with the first boat. 

Like richo, they think everyone should get out of the way.

MBBC?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

I thought Ichy Bum won? 

Line honours winner.  Of course I too had completely forgotten the other 100 boats...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This going to the room about a minor incident is such a pussy response. In QLD races these things are sorted out in the bar. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

MBBC?

Morton Bay Boys College? Didn't pick Randumb as the private school kind. Maybe 'the rich cunts' picked on him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, LB 15 said:

Morton Bay Boys College? Didn't pick Randumb as the private school kind. Maybe 'the rich cunts' picked on him. 

Moreton Bay Boat Club - Scarborough. 

I'm pretty sure their NOR for WAGS is colregs + a couple of basic RRS. Pursuit start, never seen anyone sail the spinnaker course for Wags. Well meaning folks who enjoy a cruise in company. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Morton Bay Boys College? Didn't pick Randumb as the private school kind. Maybe 'the rich cunts' picked on him. 

You have a short memory for the club I left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, overlay said:

So you teach sailing and moonlight as a highly paid expert witness for all things marine? :D:D

You are quite right and my post incorrect. That was the 9th time (not 8th) that WOXI has taken line honers in this race. But why the butthurt cupcake? Just because you are clueless don't fret- it's not like you are the only one posting here. And sweetie thanks for the emoji's. Only a special kind of person uses them after their 12th birthday.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, chuso007 said:

I even have a book about the nice things we Europeans say about each other.....

Is there anything in the book that’s nice to say to Nigel Farage?? :ph34r:

 

(yes, I know, PA is the second door on the left) 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

This going to the room about a minor incident is such a pussy response. In QLD races these things are sorted out in the bar. 

 

And that is really working out for everyone concerned so far!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, lydia said:
35 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

This going to the room about a minor incident is such a pussy response. In QLD races these things are sorted out in the bar. 

 

And that is really working out for everyone concerned so far!

Lite Boy don't need no steenking rulzz.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not over yet.

Maluka (Langman) vs Komatsu Azzurro (Kearns)

DTF only 1 mile difference with Sean 10 miles further to sea.

Great to see!

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did a quick scan of Australian TV outlets on their Sydney to Hobart Race (S2H) coverage tonight with both Line Honurs (LH)  and Tattersalls (Handicap) podium honours now decided. 

Firstly good coverage of the little horses after last night's big horse controversy. Hats off to Matt Allen (who just happens to be Aust Sailings current head honcho and ex CYCA Commodore) finally cracking it after  trying 28 years to do so, and for a long time on his own boat.

Secondly, not a peep from Team Wild Oats (WOXI). So only public comments about Line Honours (LH) are those of other competitors, WOXI crew like Mark Mason's on Newstalk NZ and some WOXI sycophants.

Other S2H competitors quotes in this regard were universally along the lines of "do the crime, do the time."

So to the WOXI sycophants. Well this guy was a standout. 

His name is John Markos. John's bio is him being a Managing Partner of Hicksons Lawyers in Sydney and it seems advises clients in a range of commercial matters and in dispute resolution. So Mr Markos is both professionaly and very practically experienced with "black letter" laws and regulations, their interpretation, application and enforcement.

So this Mr Markos after hearing Jim Cooney (Comanche's owner) publicly state his reasons for protesting,  including reference to the S2H Race Rules and issues of safety for two vessels with a collective value in the tens of millions and upwards of 40 persons on board including family members, then made this following statement. 

By the way how do I know Mr Markos heard all that and was afforded air time? Simple, he represents the Race Organiser as CYCA Commodore and is the one who handed Jim Cooney owner of Comanche the LH silverware.

This is the entirety of what the RO via Mr Markos said as broadcast (word perfect as I recorded it on ABC Channel 2, 7.00pm AEDT) about the International Jury (IJ) imposing a one (1) hour penalty on WOXI (and with my emphasis).

"I was surprised, I was, I mean most everyone who was talking about it in the context of thinking if they had found against Wild Oats, that it would be minutes, or number of minutes"

So here we have the RO essentialy saying the RO wanted WOXI to win and the Rules of their own Race should just be set aside by the the IJ to allow that to occur.

By any objective assessment  that is totally outrageous coming from a RO and one where everyone expects and demands their views on the race to be both impartial and having the sports best interest at the front of their mind. Seems not.

So Mr Markos if you are reading this, I say this to you Sir.

OPEN LETTER TO MR JOHN MARKOS - COMMODORE CYCA

I listened and absorbed your views on Comanche's Line Honours win, and Race Record title for the Sydney to Hobart Race as expressed on Channel 2 ABC News tonite (7.00pm AEDT). That was in your capacity as the Race Organiser spokesperson about Wild Oats being penalised one (1) hour by the International Jury and being stripped of its title in favour of Comanche.

Your statement to the media was:

"I was surprised, I was, I mean most everyone who was talking about it in the context of thinking if they had found against Wild Oats, that it would be minutes, or number of minutes"

My response to you Sir is this:

1. By any objective assessment your view is one of surprise Wild Oats had to firstly defend a protest and then secondly dismay for the International Jury's to rule against them and the quantum of the penalty. 

I won't dwell on that last aspect other than to remind you of precedent in this regard set in 1983 and 1990 races involving a disqualification and penalty of ten placings and obviously the stripping of LH standings in both instances.

2. Thank goodness there is a International Jury for this event, as opposed to an "in house" CYCA Race Committee determining protests, with regard to the partesian views as you have expressed.

3. Despite your standing, including professional legal background, it would appear you have little regard for the "black letter" Rules attached to this sport, your own race, why they are there, yet let alone how they should be dealt with, on and off the race course by competitors and adjudicators alike.

4. To remind you of the rules of racing as we're broken  by Wild Oats and expressed by none other than the owner of Comanche and uttered publically before and after you handed over the trophy on stage to him, but you subsequently would appear to have little respect for.

That is Rule 13 when a boat that is tacking (changing tack and tack not completed) shall keep clear of boats that are not tacking. That is designed to avoid in this case two vessels colliding who have upwards of forty persons combined on board, a combined weight of over 60 tonnes with the extreme consequences attached to that and though probably irelevant, a combined value in the tens of millions of dollars. The latter probably only applies as regard to the Race Organiser being you as spokesperson promoting this race on the national and world stage.

5. It would appear you have little understanding of this sport, how it is viewed by the general public and things that need to be employed to advance it. Your own "one boat, one team should have won" partesian utterings support my interpretations. 

In short you clearly don't have any regard for the thousands from kids upwards who participate, support and in some instances seek role models at the top end and they aspire to be. They do that in the expectation rules apply and are respected no matter the economic and social standing of those involved.

6. Having regard for competitors who are members of your Club, some who have largely expressed the view on the record and contry to yours being, "do the crime, do the time". 

Then it is my expectation and hope if they are true to that view, they will kick you to the kerb at the earliest opportunity, or failing that, at the next General Election of your Club Office Bearers.

You and those of your ilk are a monumental blight on our sport. There is no place for you, so please disappear and let others that can do the job properly, do so.

Yours

The Sparrow.

 

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites