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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
dachopper

Sydney to Hobart 2017

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3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Thats a good effort Kochie giving up 20' and over 30 years. They must be sailing it pretty hard to do that.

Kialoa broke their boom on Wednesday arvo so will be down on some major horsepower in the light stuff. Would love to see some photos of the old girls plowing through the piss when the breeze was on though.

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7 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Probably understated. He is in his rights to bang on about being obligated under the rules to protest, but elected not to.

Not sure they were obligated to lodge a protest. Correct that they did though, I think.

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2 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

The only people who will ever know that are Jesus Christ our lord and saviour. Jim Cooney & the FIFO pro crew. 

RIP

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4 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Audio, at http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/sport/kiwi-sailor-matt-manson-rips-into-jimmy-spithill-and-comanche-after-sydney-hobart/

... Matt Mason is dumbfounded by the one hour penalty they've been given as they feel it would have taken them five minutes to serve the penalty on the water.

Hey Matt.

Sad to hear you have been found dumb. If you are having no luck finding a cure try this.

 

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33 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Thats a good effort Kochie giving up 20' and over 30 years. They must be sailing it pretty hard to do that.

And Kialoa is projected to beat her 1971 line honors time by 6 hours.

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26 minutes ago, r22tahoe said:
 

"Edit to add: Dorade is only a few miles b4b behind Kialoa II (72')"

Kialoa II broke their boom and is proceeding under foresails, storm tri, and mizzen.

And still 6 hours ahead of their 1971 line honors time.

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2 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Do you saw that too?

Thought I dreamt it. 

Disappeared. Maybe he thought better of being on here. Or maybe somebody playing.

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It's reasonable to assume the IJ opted for a time amount that knocked WO down a few positions. Otherwise it wouldn't be a penalty.

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

How are the Sydney 38's doing. Other then Mondo, I don't know which yachts are S38's and I can't be bothered looking through the start list especially when you are probably keeping an eye on them ;)

TSA Management and Calibre

TSA had the division win until the parking lot at Tasman now Mayfair which sailed up on the new pressure looks the goods.

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Banque retaken Div 4 lead from Dorade, and nearing finish. Good job by them. Quick little boat.  Dorade has been closing on Mr Lucky and the other Div 4 boat, only a few miles back and they owe her time. Dorade has 2 hrs plus cushion on corrected time on them. Looking like 2nd Div 4 and 32d overall. Good job by the old girl.

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Pray tell Woger

A well known name who may or may not be an impersonator.

Posted and rapidly hid it.

If he is genuine and want's to come back he will.

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56 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Thats a good effort Kochie giving up 20' and over 30 years. They must be sailing it pretty hard to do that.

Dorade is no slug. IIRC, when they won the Transatlantic race in 1931 they were the smallest boat and were first to finish by a day or more. Took the arctic route. Won Fastnet while in Europe that year.

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10 minutes ago, lydia said:

Faaacking close between Mayfair and Ariel though for Div 3.

The Ox and Box show likely quicker in the river.

May come down to who can stay clear of the Clippers.  Can't imagine trying to pass one of those beasts to leeward.

Edit: It looks like the clippers are faster on this angle.  I should have said it would suck to get rolled by one while trying to win IRC3.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Probably understated. He is in his rights to bang on about being obligated under the rules to protest, but elected not to.

 

1 hour ago, rogerfal said:

As you know I think the jury got it right.

However do you believe the Cooney quote in totality?

I'd like to but I don't know the man. 

 

1 hour ago, rogerfal said:

Not sure they were obligated to lodge a protest. Correct that they did though, I think.

Yes he is if he believes a rule has been broken. Top of Page 11 in the Blue Book (my emphasis)

SPORTSMANSHIP AND THE RULES

Competitors in the sport of sailing are governed by a body of rules that they are expected to follow and enforce. A fundamental principle of sportsmanship is that when competitors break a rule they will promptly take a penalty, which may be to retire.

The copy on board WOXI must have been eaten by moths for them to not take a on water penalty and then say the protest should have been withdrawn. 

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.sailing.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Sailing-v6.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwis8MOLua7YAhUMWbwKHTvJBqkQFghJMAM&usg=AOvVaw3SxSZqWQcQmD4DciHwKRZI

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14 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

A well known name who may or may not be an impersonator.

Posted and rapidly hid it.

If he is genuine and want's to come back he will.

If not the name the content??

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1 minute ago, Your Mom said:

Banque's track is interesting.  WAY East.  I guess that's how the top IRC4 boat is getting to the finish before the first IRC3 boat.

just a much faster boat downwind.

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4 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:
1 hour ago, rogerfal said:

Not sure they were obligated to lodge a protest. Correct that they did though, I think.

Yes he is if he believes a rule has been broken. Top of Page 11 in the Blue Book (my emphasis)

SPORTSMANSHIP AND THE RULES

Competitors in the sport of sailing are governed by a body of rules that they are expected to follow and enforce. A fundamental principle of sportsmanship is that when competitors break a rule they will promptly take a penalty, which may be to retire.

The copy on board WOXI must have been eaten by moths.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.sailing.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Sailing-v6.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwis8MOLua7YAhUMWbwKHTvJBqkQFghJMAM&usg=AOvVaw3SxSZqWQcQmD4DciHw

Yep get that but am not 100% on enforce means must protest though for sure I understand you pointing out the inference.

Am wondering how that impacts on a third party who witnesses a non contact infringement.

I'll go do some reading.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

When did Sydney Harbour shrink?

Despite what the armchair admirals will say, the place to have done the 720 would have been after the second mark. Plenty of room and only about 1/2 mile away from the incident.

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8 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

If not the name the content??

Question about how 60 mins was arrived at.

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Who said there was one rule for the rich (& the 100'rs) ?

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has been issued a $250 fine by NSW Maritime Services this afternoon after he failed to don a life jacket on Sydney Harbour this week.

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

The sum of 2 or more times and then checksums including whether it was greater than Comanche's delta but less than BJ's is my guess.

Yes - a bit arbitary.

Clearly to penalise such that position is not lost is no penalty.

Beyond that I don't have a clue. Guess that's why I'm not an IJ.

I do however think the given penalty is adequate.

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56 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Yes - a bit arbitary.

Clearly to penalise such that position is not lost is no penalty.

Beyond that I don't have a clue. Guess that's why I'm not an IJ.

I do however think the given penalty is adequate.

He are the only two precedents for Line Honour stripping in the S2H and known by everyone before starting to be arguably arbitary. They has been one time/place penalty and one DSQ up to 2017.

1990 - Rothmans LH and 2nd HC.

Penalised  chain smoking Laurie Smith 10% of placings 20% on corrected time and stripped her of the line honours award for breaking Rule 26 (advertising) by flying a spinnaker with an illegal logo on it out of sight in the middle of Bass Strait.

IJ decision was Ragamuffin was awarded line honours, and first place overall on IOR corrected times went to Sagacious V.

1983 - Nirvana LH.

Bob Bell’s Condor of Bermuda and American Marvin Green’s Nirvana, were sailing side by side up the Derwent when Nirvana forced Condor into the shallows six nautical miles from the finish line.

Condor was stuck on a rock for five minutes and Nirvana won by two minutes and 16 seconds.

IJ ruled against Nirvana and she was disqualified and line honours awarded to Condor.

Anyone moaning and groaning about WOXI's 1 hour time or 1 place penalty need to give themselves an uppercut in light of the above precedents. There are many with some justification it should have been much stiffer.

PS. In light of failing to take a "on water" penalty in favour of risking a IJ "off water" penalty and looking to Spitball/Comanche to then withdraw their protest, both actions contry to the Rules, Richards needs to get his Blue Book and SI's out. Moaning then about the protest going to the IJ and blaming the other side for that, he should consult a head trauma specialist quick smart.

Then to boot moaning about the IJ penalty in light of the above LH penalty precedents and the rules, then Richo takes the 2017 Cunt Award and should think long and hard about luckily missing a Rule 69 bullet when accepting it.

 

Edited by jack_sparrow
Added PS
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2 hours ago, By the lee said:

I. Don't. Care.

But I did think others here may have had an interest in the way  RSHYR media  presented (edited?) what was said for the readers of their web news page.

You posted it as fact dipstick.

2 hours ago, SCANAS said:

Cooney said Wild Oats could have then completed the race comfortable in the knowledge there would be no protest hearing.

"I didn't pursue the protest expecting it would overturn the race result," he said.

That wasn't why I lodged the protest at all.

We are talking about the two most significant supermaxis in the world ... boats at that level and crews at that level should understand, respect and abide by the rules.

I think my action was purely to highlight that we all have obligations to keep ourselves and others in the race safe.

It wasn't a race-winning tactic to go into the protest room. It was something that I adopted as a matter of principle."

 

Cooney is a classy guy who just schooled an obnoxious brat who had it coming. Just my 2c.

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1 hour ago, Your Mom said:

Banque's track is interesting.  WAY East.  I guess that's how the top IRC4 boat is getting to the finish before the first IRC3 boat.

The JPKs have been performing way above their ratings in Europe as well. Very quick well balanced boat for all conditions.

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Well, WOXI sailed a fantastic race and well deserved line honours.

Failing to give way on port, or do anything other than that horrible tack right there - and then not taking the penalty when clearly hailed to do so means they have to cop it sweet.  Any kid sailing in our club past Opti green fleet knows give way to the right and take the penalty when called for a stuff up.  So there it is.  A trophy on a shelf with line honours on it,  a million pages of rants and twaddle and a thousand drunken bar arguments for years to come - and hopefully a rematch without the bs next year...

Congratulations to Comanche, also a fantastic race and the winner of the 2017 S2H.

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2 minutes ago, Boatbeard said:

Well, WOXI sailed a fantastic race and well deserved line honours.

Failing to give way on port, or do anything other than that horrible tack right there - and then not taking the penalty when clearly hailed to do so means they have to cop it sweet.  Any kid sailing in our club past Opti green fleet knows give way to the right and take the penalty when called for a stuff up.  So there it is.  A trophy on a shelf with line honours on it,  a million pages of rants and twaddle and a thousand drunken bar arguments for years to come - and hopefully a rematch without the bs next year...

Congratulations to Comanche, also a fantastic race and the winner of the 2017 S2H.

Plus 1.

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26 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

He are the only two precedents for Line Honour stripping in the S2H and known by everyone before starting to be arguably arbitary. They has been one time/place penalty and one DSQ up to 2017.

1990 - Rothmans LH and 2nd HC.

Penalised  chain smoking Laurie Smith 10% of placings 20% on corrected time and stripped her of the line honours award for breaking Rule 26 (advertising) by flying a spinnaker with an illegal logo on it out of sight in the middle of Bass Strait.

IJ decision was Ragamuffin was awarded line honours, and first place overall on IOR corrected times went to Sagacious V.

1983 - Nirvana LH.

Bob Bell’s Condor of Bermuda and American Marvin Green’s Nirvana, were sailing side by side up the Derwent when Nirvana forced Condor into the shallows six nautical miles from the finish line.

Condor was stuck on a rock for five minutes and Nirvana won by two minutes and 16 seconds.

IJ ruled against Nirvana and she was disqualified and line honours awarded to Condor.

Anyone moaning and groaning about WOXI's 1 hour time or 1 place penalty need to give themselves an uppercut in light of the above precedents. There are many with some justification it should have been much stiffer.

 

I had the pleasure of sailing with Chas aboard Rothmans in the Sydney Hobart Race of 1990. It was a race that none on board will ever forget. The race record was within our grasp and the wind shut off. We had earlier torn a three-quarter ounce spinnaker to shreds and when we needed another, it had a Rothmans logo (which was against the rules for this race) on it, but it was argued that it wouldn’t be seen by anyone. However, we had not considered the presence of a photographer in a helicopter and Rothmans was penalised ten places at the finish.

https://www.facebook.com/chasfromTas/posts/1726283837642442

12741961_1685200565084103_4878787950493679487_n.jpg

 

Rothmans roaring across Bass Strait in the 1990 Sydney Hobart Race. The Admiral, Don Buckley, broke his collar bone, the boat took on about seven tons or more of water through the domed hatchway, she lost the spinnaker, down below was chaos and waist deep, the sails were awash inside the boat and Speizy was swept out of his bunk and ended up in the bow. When Rothmans took a nose dive at 26 knots like a submarine the cameras on this film couldn't record the moment as they too were submerged. For all this she was the first yacht home.
Thanks to crew member and photographer Rick Tomlinson for the photo.
Amongst a bunch of great guys and august crew members were skipper Lawrie Smith, Shag, Bob Fisher, Don Buckley, Dave Powys, Gordon McGuire, Paul Stanbridge and Chas.
If you want to see that race from on board Rothmans go to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7-JEL-LXAo
for some more great action shots
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1 hour ago, SCANAS said:

Who said there was one rule for the rich (& the 100'rs) ?

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has been issued a $250 fine by NSW Maritime Services this afternoon after he failed to don a life jacket on Sydney Harbour this week.

Just saw that, what a stupid nanny state :ph34r:

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7 minutes ago, Mid said:

We had earlier torn a three-quarter ounce spinnaker to shreds and when we needed another, it had a Rothmans logo (which was against the rules for this race) on it, but it was argued that it wouldn’t be seen by anyone.

Thanks for mentioning that Mid, I didn't think to do so.

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There really are some stupid subjective, ingnorantly written or emotionally charged comments here.  OK -Time to put this to bed...

1.  The incident - A poorly executed leebow?  Hesitation during a cross?  Hesitation in a slam dunk?  Poor on board comms between the after guard?  Who knows?  Who cares?  We've all been there.  People make mistakes.  Get over it.

2 The rules - Rule 13, simple.  Only Rules 13, 14 and rule 16.1 are considered.  The jury concluded that LDVC did not change course, so 16.1 can be ruled out.  LDVC acted to avoid contact, and there was no collision, so rule 14 out.They concluded that LDVC had to take action to avoid while WOXI was tacking.  That's all.

No point in discussing rule 10 now.  That expired when WOXI passed HTW.  No point in discussing rule 15.  That only occurs after WOXI reached close-hauled.  No point in discussing 16.2.  At no time was WOXI sailing to pass astern of LDVC.

3.  Not taking a penalty - That is the right of any boat.  If they believe that they did not break a rule, or were not sure because it was close (and judging by this discussion it was), then they have a right to take their chances in the protest room.  This does not represent poor sportsmanship or even foolishness. It is in the rules for them to do.  Both parties (including WOXI agree that it was close, with WOXI crew proposing a 50/50 situation).   If they knew they had broken a rule, then yes, we could question sportsmanship.  In this case, no. Move along.

In reflection, they may have misjudged how close it was, and kick themselves for that.  We may all have acted differently.  It probably was a poor risk/reward judgement.  However, at the time, her decision to continue was justified and within the rules and principals of sportsmanship, since they thought they had not broken a rule, or were not convinced enough to take a penalty at the time.  Her right to make that call.

4 The Protest - Nothing wrong with LDVC's decision to take this to the room.  It is a fundimental principal of all competitors to enforce the rules.  That's all she did.  Not doing that is possibly more destructive to the sport.  Furthermore, if you believe in the rules and that they are a part of the sport, then you should fully support her decision to go ahead (for whatever motives - win, principals, morals, sponsor pressure, etc...) with the protest.  Both boats agreed to be bound by the rules; those rules include the protest and penalty procedure.

5.  The Time Penalty - Of course it needs to be more than 5 minutes in order to be a penalty! Duh!    The penalty must be in line with the penalty system of the event.  In the SIs for this event specify penalties ranging from 5 minutes minimum to DSQ.  In between those extremes are 20% for not submitting a declaration, 30% for an offshore breach of Part 2 and OCS, 40% as maximum time penalty, and then DSQ for the most heinous of crimes.  It stands to reason that the time penalty for an inshore breach of Part 2 should be somewhere between not submitting a declaration on time, and the offshore Part 2.  So 20-30% of position in her division.  That's what the jury did. Her time penalty worsened her IRC Div 0 position by about 20-30% of all the IRC Div 0 boats.

Discretionary Penalties (DPs) are becoming more popular.  There is even a new scoring code for it.  The principal suggests that not all rule breaches are the same.  That seems sensible.  Good practice is still being developed.  If DP is to be used, Race Organisers and Juries need to have a clear penalty structure for DPs, which is fair and well known.  Many events already have one, which they publish to competitors.  In this S2H, the SIs were a little ambiguous.  Maybe more structure and guidance could be given on the penalty system.

6.  Winning in the room - WTF?  No one has won in the room. The incident took place on the water in this case.

Those who think that this is sea-lawyering or 'winning in the room' are normally the ones who either don't know all the rules or don't fully respect the rules.  If they did, they would know that in this sport, there is no way to resolve some on-the-water conflicts, other than going to the room.  They would know that the rules are designed to give competitors the chance to exonerate OR to have the decision reached by an independent panel.  They would know that not enforcing the rules (including the 'Oh, forget about it!' approach) is not good for the sport.

7.  WOXI's Elapsed Time - Her RACE Elapsed Time is the time she took in this 'event/race/competition'.  In this race it was 01:09:15:24.  That is 33 minutes behind LDVC.  There is NO OTHER elapsed time. End Of.

8.  Race Record - Read it carefully...the 'RACE' record.  That is a record set during an edition of Sydney to Hobart Race.  The race record is only held by a boat who has sailed the course correctly, and complied with the rules or taken penalties under the rules for any breaches made during the race.  WOXI did not break any race record this year.  Unlucky.  LDVC did.

9.  'The Fastest Crossing Between Sydney and Hobart' - If someone wants to go and make a seperate unrelated trophy for 'The Fastest Crossing Between Sydney and Hobart', then go ahead and give it to WOXI! Well done her.

See how long it lasts though, before people abuse that trophy's lack of moderation.  The organised S2H race event is the moderator of that record for a reason.  It sets bounds within we can be comfortable that a boat has acheived that feat fairly and measurably.  In which case WOXI did not gain any known record.

10.  The messages this sends to kids and non-sailors - That sailing is a complex sport.  That even the best make mistakes.  That if you break a rule you may (and should) be penalised.  That even long races can be so close that a single penalty can make the difference between winning and losing.

11.  WOXI attitude after the decision? - Whatever!  Of course they will be disappointed!  They thought they were right!  Someone always goes away dissatisfied after a hearing.  Moral win?  Fine; let them enjoy the fact that they sailed very fast, if that is what they want to measure their success by.  Let's face it, they did sail fast and well.  Just from the 'race' point of view they did not beat LDVC (see #7).  Nothing in that interview suggested WOXI were not accepting the decision.

That's about it.

Well done to LDVC.  Well done to Ichi Ban and all the others who won divisions, got on the podium or achieved a personal best.

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These rules are so stupid.

 

Wild Oats should have kept the line honors and been penalized a fixed amount.

 

To have a penalty that is undefinable and ranges from a turn to 5 minutes to being banned from the sport.......... seems a little bronze aged to me.

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5 minutes ago, Dog Watch said:

There really are some stupid subjective, ingnorantly written or emotionally charged comments here.  OK -Time to put this to bed...

 

When you opened with that I thought "here we go ..."

But that was an awesome post, a refreshing beer after a long day, a ray of sanity in this crazy disturbing thread.

Thank you.

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3 minutes ago, dachopper said:

 

To have a penalty that is undefinable and ranges from a turn to 5 minutes to being banned from the sport.......... seems a little bronze aged to me.

The RRS don't fucking care what you think and you look foolish saying that.

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6 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Just saw that, what a stupid nanny state :ph34r:

Moving it from his private dock back to his beach - 20metres. Surely they can show some discretion, terrible.

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1 hour ago, lydia said:

TSA Management and Calibre

TSA had the division win until the parking lot at Tasman now Mayfair which sailed up on the new pressure looks the goods.

I see that TSA beat Calibre by 10min 22 seconds.

Mondo is expected to finish 3 hours later. Ray might need to drop the price a fair bit if he wants to sell Mondo.

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6 minutes ago, dachopper said:

These rules are so stupid.

 

Wild Oats should have kept the line honors and been penalized a fixed amount.

 

To have a penalty that is undefinable and ranges from a turn to 5 minutes to being banned from the sport.......... seems a little bronze aged to me.

5 pages or so of rabid discussion and character assassination and thats all you got?    "These rules are stupid" ?

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2 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Moving it from his private dock back to his beach - 20metres. Surely they can show some discretion, terrible.

Yeah, a fucking joke. It would be nice to think that they fined him because showing discretion would might appear to look bad, but I suspect that they'd nab anyone because they like to be dicks.

What is the law? The article I read seems to imply that you must wear the LJ because he was alone but it he was with someone, having LJ's onboard was sufficient. It makes me wonder if I must wear a LJ if I solo my yacht? 

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TSA have been doing it a long time. If you look back to when they had the Syd38 one design division some goods teams came through. Scarlett Runner, Rupert Henry, Lou Abrams, Chutzpah, Goat Syndicate, Zen, Yeah baby guys & others shame it died out. 

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23 minutes ago, Dog Watch said:

Nothing in that interview suggested WOXI were not accepting the decision.

Great post up until this bit. WOXI accepting or not is irrelevant, the decision can't be appealed.

Outside the one post decision interview you refer to, their public comments including those of crew prior to and after the IJ decision are not accepting of the rules and the decision. Furthermore they are directed at diminishing Comanche's place in the record books.

Dog other than that ommision a damm fine read. Thank you.

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10 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Yeah, a fucking joke. It would be nice to think that they fined him because showing discretion would might appear to look bad, but I suspect that they'd nab anyone because they like to be dicks.

What is the law? The article I read seems to imply that you must wear the LJ because he was alone but it he was with someone, having LJ's onboard was sufficient. It makes me wonder if I must wear a LJ if I solo my yacht? 

Solo under 4.8m in NSW that article says. 

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1 minute ago, SCANAS said:

TSA have been doing it a long time. If you look back to when they had the Syd38 one design division some goods teams came through. Scarlett Runner, Rupert Henry, Lou Abrams, Chutzpah, Goat Syndicate, Zen, Yeah baby guys & others shame it died out. 

I guess as the boats get older and are in need of upgrades and refits, owners decide to spend money on equipment that might make the boat better for IRC racing or easier to race with smaller crews etc. rather than keeping it within strict one design rules?  Maybe the S38 OD fleet would have a resurgence if they eased off the OD rules and introduce handicapping to even out high and low budget teams.

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4 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Solo under 4.8m in NSW that article says. 

Ahhh... can't be bothered looking up the Vic rules. Never did the licence test here as I got my Swedish coast skipper qualification transferred.

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24 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I see that TSA beat Calibre by 10min 22 seconds.

Mondo is expected to finish 3 hours later. Ray might need to drop the price a fair bit if he wants to sell Mondo.

Hoopy, put us all out our misery on the other thread.

Hop on a plane to Hobart this evening.

Offer Ray $70k at the dock.

Problem solved.

Ray does not have to deliver back to Qld and you don't exceed your budget.

The new mainsail is a glamour by the way so be sure to get it.

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4 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I guess as the boats get older and are in need of upgrades and refits, owners decide to spend money on equipment that might make the boat better for IRC racing or easier to race with smaller crews etc. rather than keeping it within strict one design rules?  Maybe the S38 OD fleet would have a resurgence if they eased off the OD rules and introduce handicapping to even out high and low budget teams.

Quite the opposite, sail restrictions are the harshest I have come across.

And for good reason.

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Someone on HotelPlanner one of the Clippers went for a swim. This vid from the Clipper thread is interesting  with regard to the guy who unfortunately died on the last leg and was clipped on.

 

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I saw the TV coverage of the WOXI-Comanche crossing on the day and to my eye it looked like a fairly straightforward port-starboard situation with WOXI the burdened vessel throughout the interaction.

I might have missed it but I saw nothing from that camera angle indicating Comanche was "hunting" WOXI.

Others have already noted the failure of WOXI to just do their 720 after the foul, which would have taken, I don't know, a few minutes, so would not have hurt their elapsed time win of 27 minutes.

What I am wondering is, seeing the close crossing situation developing, why didn't the WOXI afterguard just duck Comanche? A duck would have cost WOXI a few boatlengths. Certainly a lot less than a 720, and way less than what they were penalised. The video doesn't show the whole tactical situation so there may have something that made them decide not to duck that I couldn't see. (someone may have already commented on this but I'm not going to go through the whole thread)

I too was surprised at Richards' comment that somehow the rules are different in the S-H race. Really? Well he was right in one sense. In a regular round-the-buoys race WOXI would have been DSQ-ed not  given a time penalty.

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16 minutes ago, lydia said:

Quite the opposite, sail restrictions are the harshest I have come across.

And for good reason.

In what way? Sail restrictions keep the cost down? 

I can understand that strict OD rules will keep the boats even and perhaps the costs down. However, I can imagine that owners might decide to buy new tech sails to make the boat faster for IRC, ORCi, AMS or PHS club racing and ocean races and not spend money on OD sails, so they quit the OD fleets. If they allow modified S38's in the regattas, suitably handicapped, then they should get more yachts in the fleets.

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14 minutes ago, whoward said:

What I am wondering is, seeing the close crossing situation developing, why didn't the WOXI afterguard just duck Comanche? A duck would have cost WOXI a few boatlengths.

Add by WOXI's judgement 4/5m gap at the incident plus say the same pre incident plus 35m of boat and prodder = say 45 metres. That is a big duck.

They thought they were safely through then weren't or knew they they were dead and fucked up execution of a lee bow.

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1 minute ago, hoppy said:

In what way? Sail restrictions keep the cost down? 

I can understand that strict OD rules will keep the boats even and perhaps the costs down. However, I can imagine that owners might decide to buy new tech sails to make the boat faster for IRC, ORCi, AMS or PHS club racing and ocean races and not spend money on OD sails, so they quit the OD fleets. If they allow modified S38's in the regattas, suitably handicapped, then they should get more yachts in the fleets.

Hoppy

check you PMs

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46 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

TSA have been doing it a long time. If you look back to when they had the Syd38 one design division some goods teams came through. Scarlett Runner, Rupert Henry, Lou Abrams, Chutzpah, Goat Syndicate, Zen, Yeah baby guys & others shame it died out. 

Not meaning to be prickly Scan but I think Lou got started a bit before that. The 38 was almost a retirement project.

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

Add by WOXI's judgement 4/5m gap at the incident plus say the same pre incident plus 35m of boat and prodder = say 45 metres. That is a big duck.

Perhaps.  But again as experienced a crew as WOXI's surely would have seen the crossing developing and anticipated? It's a long race, and surely they must have been weighing that against whatever tactical advantage they'd gain in a boat-to-boat tangle with Comanche so early in the race.

I wasn't there so I don't know what Richards and Murray were thinking. But they made mistakes in 1) misjudging the crossing and 2) not doing their turns. I've been there, done that. Taking a port-starboard situation to the protest room if you are the port boat is generally, in my experience, a loser. Better to do your turns.

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1 hour ago, SCANAS said:

Lydia why does Ariel rate lower? Different mast or sails?

 

Suspect it is the standard Hobart optimization, offshore mainsail with smaller girths and no roach.

Mainsail area is very expensive.

Scan, on the old boat we had a Hobart configuration test Ct of 1.063 by pulling similar tricks.

 

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1 minute ago, lydia said:

Suspect it is the standard Hobart optimization, offshore mainsail with smaller girths and no roach.

Mainsail area is very expensive.

 

Ok thanks. 

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4 minutes ago, paps49 said:

Not meaning to be prickly Scan but I think Lou got started a bit before that. The 38 was almost a retirement project.

True. I probably missed other good teams. I was just looking at how many boats they had in the class per year, saw Scarlett runner & Chutzpah & had a poke around. 

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23 minutes ago, whoward said:

I saw the TV coverage of the WOXI-Comanche crossing on the day and to my eye it looked like a fairly straightforward port-starboard situation with WOXI the burdened vessel throughout the interaction.

I might have missed it but I saw nothing from that camera angle indicating Comanche was "hunting" WOXI.

Others have already noted the failure of WOXI to just do their 720 after the foul, which would have taken, I don't know, a few minutes, so would not have hurt their elapsed time win of 27 minutes.

What I am wondering is, seeing the close crossing situation developing, why didn't the WOXI afterguard just duck Comanche? A duck would have cost WOXI a few boatlengths. Certainly a lot less than a 720, and way less than what they were penalised. The video doesn't show the whole tactical situation so there may have something that made them decide not to duck that I couldn't see. (someone may have already commented on this but I'm not going to go through the whole thread)

I too was surprised at Richards' comment that somehow the rules are different in the S-H race. Really? Well he was right in one sense. In a regular round-the-buoys race WOXI would have been DSQ-ed not  given a time penalty.

The way I saw it was after C tacked WO thought they were ahead due to C bouncing about on the waves, C started to gain speed, WO still thought they were ahead, C kept gaining speed and the WO realised to late that it was going to be tight, tacked and fucked it up as it was too late and you know the rest.

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10 minutes ago, lydia said:

Suspect it is the standard Hobart optimization, offshore mainsail with smaller girths and no roach.

Mainsail area is very expensive.

Scan, on the old boat we had a Hobart configuration test Ct of 1.063 by pulling similar tricks.

 

1.063 Would put it right up there in this race. Smaller kites too? 

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1 hour ago, Dog Watch said:

 

9.  'The Fastest Crossing Between Sydney and Hobart' - If someone wants to go and make a seperate unrelated trophy for 'The Fastest Crossing Between Sydney and Hobart', then go ahead and give it to WOXI! Well done her.

See how long it lasts though, before people abuse that trophy's lack of moderation.  The organised S2H race event is the moderator of that record for a reason.  It sets bounds within we can be comfortable that a boat has acheived that feat fairly and measurably.  In which case WOXI did not gain any known record.

 

Then you have to add - "by a monohull"....

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8 hours ago, mad said:

Matt Mason should really give up being a team spokesman. 

He should give up his Kiwi card too while he's at it.

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7 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

1.063 Would put it right up there in this race. Smaller kites too? 

A little, just the old ones still on the boat

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No confirmation but that silly twat on ABC just stated Wox have announced they will start in '18.

Maybe Jimmy did Richo a favour?

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On 28/12/2017 at 4:04 PM, Apparent Lee said:

My post yesterday - to be clear This protest  is a storm in a tea cup, Oats had completed their tack before Pit Bull was overlapped, .. International Jury will dismiss this... as fluff or I will wear rabbit ears to the CYCA prize giving, as promised to SCANAS...

I just suddenly realised you carry those ears on your good person at all times and ready to done. Good planning.

Can I suggest a red bow tie will accentuate the ear colouring. An eye colour clash is not an issue being always closed.

unnamed (3).gif

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7 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

(Snip)

While Ricko was pulling off that move was he wearing boxers or briefs?

It was such a loose move, he must have been commando. 

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6 hours ago, rogerfal said:

Understanding that a stereotype is just that, is possibly the first step towards not being a racist

This is very off topic, but you need to understand that this is innocent fun between the nordic countries, about our differences. Nothing racist about it, it comes from affection and special bonds. A Dane can call me a mountain monkey to my face and I can reply that not even other Danes understand what you're saying. As an example. 

Carry on :)

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