dachopper

Sydney to Hobart 2017

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On 12/28/2017 at 10:01 PM, robberzdog said:

And how far do you think they would have had to sail to get clear of all other boats, plus the spectator fleet and get it all done before they got to Z buoy when the alternative penalty option ran out? New Zealand?

It is crazy and dangerous to expect a supermaxi to be doing consecutive 720 turns in a situation like that. It is mayhem on the water at a Sydney Hobart start.  Comanche would have lost all of 20 secs from their luff - a 15 minute time penalty is reasonable.

Utter bollox. There was loads of space, and there is nothing about not being able to take it after the Z buoy. The penalty is where the incident took place. Sail away do you turns. If not you are a cheater and you accept the penalty. 

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On 29/12/2017 at 6:01 AM, mad said:

That’s painful just to watch. 

I find the Clipper boats to be exactly that.

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^ Musics a bit much but otherwise great video. 

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Here's a newly question, why are multis banned from this event, especially since they are cheaper(?) to use if you compare say a MOD70 with a similar sized Maxi. Can someone enlighten me/correct me please?

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Organising club doesn't want the risk. They enforce strict rules about monohull stability. 

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If Tohatsu or the Duck manufacturer don't give him a deal they're mad! 

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17 hours ago, SCANAS said:

^ Musics a bit much but otherwise great video. 

Respectfully - the music is better than many of the other options! A la Bow Caddy Productions...

This track is from Deep Blue Orchestra, a QLD based (mainly strings) group. I saw them play live years ago at a festival, and they actually f*cking ROCKED. 5,000 people moshing to violins wasn't something I'd ever expected to see in this lifetime.

 

Their cover of the Stones "Paint it Black" is a belting track.

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2 minutes ago, Jason AUS said:

Respectfully - the music is better than many of the other options! A la Bow Caddy Productions...

This track is from Deep Blue Orchestra, a QLD based (mainly strings) group. I saw them play live years ago at a festival, and they actually f*cking ROCKED. 5,000 people moshing to violins wasn't something I'd ever expected to see in this lifetime.

 

Their cover of the Stones "Paint it Black" is a belting track.

On that basis, A bit googling is needed. I’m trying to imagine the scene at the festival!

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On 1/3/2018 at 4:22 AM, RKoch said:

The picture is a screenshot from the onboard video by the media person. I think C is already altering course at that point, and going faster than WO.  Can't be determined if WO has already completed their tack, though.

Consider, that WO has just panic-tacked directly in front of C,  the sprit extends several feet in front of bow, Spithill is 80+ feet astern of bow, and his main reference point is his bowman signaling to him. Too close, IMO.

Stan Honey supplied the actual track to the IJ from the $200,000 wiz bang compass dohicky that gives EXACT course / track every 0.9 second. This proved that Spitty did not hunt WO and only altered course to starboard to avoid a collision... 

On 1/5/2018 at 1:14 AM, randomlurker said:

Utter bollox. There was loads of space, and there is nothing about not being able to take it after the Z buoy. The penalty is where the incident took place. Sail away do you turns. If not you are a cheater and you accept the penalty. 

Agree.... they had a shit ton of room... ridiculous comment...

12 hours ago, Raptorsailor said:

Here's a newly question, why are multis banned from this event, especially since they are cheaper(?) to use if you compare say a MOD70 with a similar sized Maxi. Can someone enlighten me/correct me please?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA........................................................................................... Great question... haven't heard that asked before....... and multis are cheaper.... damn ... you're killing me.

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11 hours ago, SCANAS said:

If Tohatsu or the Duck manufacturer don't give him a deal they're mad! 

They gave him a deal on two motors.... Gemini (boats) gave him a boat for cost.  He spent a lot of his own money.

He is actually one of my friends.... go easy on me fellows

 

13 minutes ago, Jason AUS said:

Respectfully - the music is better than many of the other options! A la Bow Caddy Productions...

This track is from Deep Blue Orchestra, a QLD based (mainly strings) group. I saw them play live years ago at a festival, and they actually f*cking ROCKED. 5,000 people moshing to violins wasn't something I'd ever expected to see in this lifetime.

 

Their cover of the Stones "Paint it Black" is a belting track.

HAHAHA   you are just a big surprise package some times Jas

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20 minutes ago, mad said:

On that basis, A bit googling is needed. I’m trying to imagine the scene at the festival!

Start with this - it's their cover of Misrilou from Pulp Fiction.

 

 

 

The festival was back in 2011, and it would be fair to say that there were some mind bending (and not necessarily legal) substances on offer.

 

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Full credit to him PIL my only question was why a 2 stroke! 

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1 hour ago, SCANAS said:

Full credit to him PIL my only question was why a 2 stroke! 

I don't have a sensible answer for this other than we all use the 2 stroke Tohatsu or Yamaha 3 cylinder 50hp for power / weight and the fact that when we roll our boats (Usually surf racing) we can clear the water from cylinders / carbies quickly and restart... Nathan practiced this many times before he left and got it down to 15 minutes ( right the boat with roll over straps) and get the motor going.  It's also why he went with the premixed motor as opposed to the oil injected model.

 

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23 minutes ago, PIL007 said:

I don't have a sensible answer for this other than we all use the 2 stroke Tohatsu or Yamaha 3 cylinder 50hp for power / weight and the fact that when we roll our boats (Usually surf racing) we can clear the water from cylinders / carbies quickly and restart... Nathan practiced this many times before he left and got it down to 15 minutes ( right the boat with roll over straps) and get the motor going.  It's also why he went with the premixed motor as opposed to the oil injected model.

 

good to hear there was some serious thought put into it from an insider. It certainly looked like he geared up properly from that vid., but all you get from the media soundbites is 'spur of the moment' bullshit.

 

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14 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

good to hear there was some serious thought put into it from an insider. It certainly looked like he geared up properly from that vid., but all you get from the media soundbites is 'spur of the moment' bullshit.

 

He was fully prepared 

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34 minutes ago, PIL007 said:

He was fully prepared 

3 years he said. 

(I) Hadn't thought of capsize recovery. 

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19 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

3 years he said. 

(I) Hadn't thought of capsize recovery. 

Yep... roll the boat back over end for end .... engine needs bottom carbie drained (they all drain to the bottom)  Plugs out, pull pull pull pull and more to get rid of salt water that got sucked through the carbie... squirt "Start ya bastard" and fuel down the plug holes and down carbie throat, put 2 x plugs back in and get it to fire then put the last plug in and half electrocute yourself with trying to put the last plug lead on... Done... rev the fuck out of it for 30 mins and it's like a bought one

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4 hours ago, Jason AUS said:

Respectfully

This is not the place for this.

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21 minutes ago, Swanno said:

This is not the place for this.

Get f*cked.

Better?

 

Or do I need to post pictures of bewbs?

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1 hour ago, Swanno said:

This is not the place for this.

.....?

Bewbs always

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1 hour ago, Jason AUS said:

Get f*cked.

Better?

 

Or do I need to post pictures of bewbs?

Better. The level of polite manners was unacceptable....Cunt

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6 hours ago, PIL007 said:

.....?

Bewbs always

A beautiful pair of boobies for you.

 

Blue-Footed-Booby.-image-savenature--300

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Envy scooters video is great.

 

I seem to recall there being some great video from that boat as Ichi Ban during last year's hobart but I can't find it. Can anyone help? 

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9 hours ago, jackolantern said:

Envy scooters video is great.

 

I seem to recall there being some great video from that boat as Ichi Ban during last year's hobart but I can't find it. Can anyone help? 

Can't find the Ichi ones but here's some Balance stuff..

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Next Level said:

Here’s the ichi ban footage from 16.

 

Calling Jack Sparrow..... good footage and Sophie..... 

Don't make a mess Jack

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"He is the prominent businessman whose roaring success in the steel and livestock industries gifted him opportunities like racing in the Sydney to Hobart"

Roaring success in the drug trade allowing him to launder the money into his other businesses to make them look successful - is what they should of said. 

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5 hours ago, Next Level said:

Raced on Wot Eva according to his college website that proudly posted a photo of him before removing the page :) 

http://rolexsydneyhobart.com/the-yachts/2017/pyr-arnoldcowot-eva/

 

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On 1/27/2018 at 1:26 PM, duncan (the other one) said:

that grey indian sure does plow a furrow

 

that aint nothing!! 

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I actually wonder if that's what part of the (Botin ?) wide-arse fuckuppery was about a couple of years back..

 

check out 2:59, 4:20, 4:31 and 4:39 of that vid.  Talk about snout in the trough.

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There was a vid earlier showing Comanche and WOXI smoking downwind, in roughly the same area.  Comanche had fuckloads of water hosing the crew - quite bow down, whilst Oats was relatively dry - they were both doing around 30 from memory

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Interesting comments from Mark Richards in the CYCA mag...

"...we were just too close. We were in Comanche's water and had infringed them. Looking back, the obvious thing would have been to duck and take their transom or tack earlier, but unfortunately that was not the case."

"...did discuss doing a 720-degree penalty turn... But as a team, in the heat of the battle, we made the wrong decision and continued to race without doing a penalty."

"The whole situation was very unfortunate, but we brought it on ourselves. We have the utmost respect for the jury's decision. The moral to this story is: do your penalty turns if you are n doubt of an infringement, and never think that your mates won't protest you."

""Hopefully many other sailors will be better informed by this experience. I know I am."

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^

12 minutes ago, angles said:

"The whole situation was very unfortunate, but we brought it on ourselves. We have the utmost respect for the jury's decision. The moral to this story is: do your penalty turns if you are n doubt of an infringement, and never think that your mates won't protest you."

just in case anyone missed it :P

 

 

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1 hour ago, angles said:

" and never think that your mates won't protest you."

 

Did he actually say that...?  Are you fucking serious.... What a ridiculous thing to say.   

I applaud the rest of his comments which I feel should have been said earlier  ..... but to throw that in at end destroys any new found respect I had for him.....

It was the most basic port / starboard infringement witnessed by all on live TV. Do your turns and move on or be DSQ'd (Which I personally feel should be the punishment but I respect the IJ)

 

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On 30/01/2018 at 4:22 AM, Ricky Bobby said:

that aint nothing!! 

Have you seen worse from the boat? Genuinely curious, that doesn’t look quite right for a new boat. 

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1 minute ago, PIL007 said:

Did he actually say that...?  Are you fucking serious.... What a ridiculous thing to say.

 

Yep, he did.

I agree that it spoiled the rest of what he said. A bit of blame proportioning - I could of gotten away with it if my mates hadn't been so picky.

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2 hours ago, angles said:

Interesting comments from Mark Richards in the CYCA mag...

"...we were just too close. We were in Comanche's water and had infringed them. Looking back, the obvious thing would have been to duck and take their transom or tack earlier, but unfortunately that was not the case."

"...did discuss doing a 720-degree penalty turn... But as a team, in the heat of the battle, we made the wrong decision and continued to race without doing a penalty."

"The whole situation was very unfortunate, but we brought it on ourselves. We have the utmost respect for the jury's decision. The moral to this story is: do your penalty turns if you are n doubt of an infringement, and never think that your mates won't protest you."

""Hopefully many other sailors will be better informed by this experience. I know I am."

WTF, he’s just shot his other foot off with that. 

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On 1/29/2018 at 8:30 PM, duncan (the other one) said:

I actually wonder if that's what part of the (Botin ?) wide-arse fuckuppery was about a couple of years back..

 

check out 2:59, 4:20, 4:31 and 4:39 of that vid.  Talk about snout in the trough.

3

Carkeek.

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1 hour ago, PIL007 said:

Did he actually say that...?  Are you fucking serious.... What a ridiculous thing to say.   

I applaud the rest of his comments which I feel should have been said earlier  ..... but to throw that in at end destroys any new found respect I had for him.....

It was the most basic port / starboard infringement witnessed by all on live TV. Do your turns and move on or be DSQ'd (Which I personally feel should be the punishment but I respect the IJ)

 

One of the more suprising things I've heard from a protest defendant...

 

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50 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

One of the more suprising things I've heard from a protest defendant...

 

Say anything to keep the job I suppose!

Hope the CYCA go back to the old rule of no alternative penalties before the sea mark so everyone pulls their heads in!

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Just now, duncan (the other one) said:

yeh - Indian's a Carkeek - but wasn't it Botin who had to cut and shut a bunch of half-completed designs?  

Could be, I know RP had to with a couple bigger boats( Loki, old Belle Mente)

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1 hour ago, duncan (the other one) said:

yeh - Indian's a Carkeek - but wasn't it Botin who had to cut and shut a bunch of half-completed designs?  

Nah, Riechel-Pugh.  Loki, Limit, Shockwave, Bella Mente, Moneypenny and a few more IIRC.  Around 2005-6

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SMB 3.5 

Chutzpah? Just the foils on that one I think. 

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7 hours ago, mad said:

WTF, he’s just shot his other foot off with that. 

That's got to be messy considering his foot is firmly in his mouth

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Yeah Richo's probably totalled gutted you all feel that way about him. 

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3 hours ago, Last Post said:

That's got to be messy considering his foot is firmly in his mouth

Its fine, he's at the bottom of the hole he dug for himself

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18 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Yeah Richo's probably totalled gutted you all feel that way about him. 

Richo doesn't give a fuck how anybody feels about him, way too big an ego for that.

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He only cares about winning, and his hairdresser.

 

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On 30/01/2018 at 9:00 PM, Dark Cloud said:

There was a vid earlier showing Comanche and WOXI smoking downwind, in roughly the same area.  Comanche had fuckloads of water hosing the crew - quite bow down, whilst Oats was relatively dry - they were both doing around 30 from memory

In the end it was proven that Oats was actually faster in some of those running conditions and the Oats bow is no longer burying which means speed gains. Although the conditions were mostly dead running I was surprised Oats was able to stay with Comanche and actually gain at times. The Oats boys will be buoyant about this for future races. 

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31 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Although the conditions were mostly dead running I was surprised Oats was able to stay with Comanche and actually gain at times.

Not so much faster but could nearly match, match or even exceed Comanche in BS depending on breeze, all when going deeper. Look at the extra miles but with better BS/VMG Comanche had to sail to just get around the corner in front.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Not so much faster but could nearly match, match or even exceed Comanche in BS depending on breeze, all when going deeper. Look at the extra miles but with better BS/VMG Comanche had to sail to just get around the corner in front.

a la...

WOXI.png.fb83c0c6e10fdb28e0c63a9fdb3df6e8.png

comanche.png.b5c44f5980476aaed36ffb4f019a3c92.png

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Stan HONEY ;)

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2 minutes ago, Mid said:

Stan HONEY ;)

VPLP you mean!

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nope , they designed her , Honey told her which way to go . :P

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24 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

a la...

WOXI.png.fb83c0c6e10fdb28e0c63a9fdb3df6e8.png

comanche.png.b5c44f5980476aaed36ffb4f019a3c92.png

Yep that's it Dunc and if the breeze had just a bit more east in it they would have been well and truly pissed by the time WOXI hit the finish line. 

Wonder how long before those conditions materialise to see her record busted, 3 years or 30?

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56 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Yep a masterclass in coming up with the best track for the plow.

Interesting as all the early vids I saw of the Indian showed the bow out of the water but in those conditions and sailing as deep as possible she became a plow. There’s no doubting her best has been seen beam reaching. At least the Oats changes have been vindicated especially when you look at how Black Jack was left behind this year. Oats will be looking to make some small gains in the light if they can. 

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2 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

look at how Black Jack was left behind this year.

Wasn't that a complete and utter disappointment. Don't think they will be sitting around leaving it the way it is. That said, it is a pretty big call to make major or well considered mods unless you have given it a workout or you like tearing up money and time.

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59 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Wasn't that a complete and utter disappointment. Don't think they will be sitting around leaving it the way it is. That said, it is a pretty big call to make major or well considered mods unless you have given it a workout or you like tearing up money and time.

I think you'll see a new finer bow like WOXI. Sounds like they like the front board ie lack of drag, If you are going to keep the light air game down probably not too much else. 

Dont forget race record was broken last two years so not typical weather. 

Easy to see them getting out in front & holding the other 2-3 off. 

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On 1/27/2018 at 3:47 AM, jack_sparrow said:

The Which Watch My Watch is Better people keep punching them out.

 

Finally seen this JS, what a vid! Why does the squeaky bum vids with Patrice and Mascalzone look so much more enjoyable than the 100ft vids?

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5 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Interesting as all the early vids I saw of the Indian showed the bow out of the water but in those conditions and sailing as deep as possible she became a plow. There’s no doubting her best has been seen beam reaching. At least the Oats changes have been vindicated especially when you look at how Black Jack was left behind this year. Oats will be looking to make some small gains in the light if they can. 

Oats has no option but to sail deep as they simply haven't the righting moment to sail tighter angles.  It's very clear how much lower they can sail from those plots - thanks forthe post Duncan!  Naturally, the Indian's optimal angles will always be much higher as it needs to exploit its big RM and reduce wetted area through running heel angles.

Hence WOXI runs loose luff kites as well as zeroes.  The Indian only runs Xeros, ditto Blackjack.  Blackjack could well benefit from some big loose luff kites as it has even less RM than WOXI and is lighter.

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Comanche has a big top down furling A4 that was not on display in that video or indeed ever in this race. I wonder if they found it was too round to be useful offshore or if it was dropped off the boat for rating/weight reasons. The "Keef!" sail

 

PIL...... I know we don't deserve it... but... I'm curious. 

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15 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Wasn't that a complete and utter disappointment. Don't think they will be sitting around leaving it the way it is. That said, it is a pretty big call to make major or well considered mods unless you have given it a workout or you like tearing up money and time.

Seems like they didn't want to give up the tungsten bulb, but limited draft with the original keel means (obviously) less righting moment. Light air yes she's faster but probably from 10 knots upwards no chance whatsoever. The size difference in the rigs between BJ and the other 100's was striking. 

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10 hours ago, DickDastardly said:

Oats has no option but to sail deep as they simply haven't the righting moment to sail tighter angles.  It's very clear how much lower they can sail from those plots - thanks forthe post Duncan!  Naturally, the Indian's optimal angles will always be much higher as it needs to exploit its big RM and reduce wetted area through running heel angles.

Hence WOXI runs loose luff kites as well as zeroes.  The Indian only runs Xeros, ditto Blackjack.  Blackjack could well benefit from some big loose luff kites as it has even less RM than WOXI and is lighter.

Agree DD

I think and have heard somewhere that much was probably learnt from that hit out...

6 hours ago, jackolantern said:

Comanche has a big top down furling A4 that was not on display in that video or indeed ever in this race. I wonder if they found it was too round to be useful offshore or if it was dropped off the boat for rating/weight reasons. The "Keef!" sail

 

PIL...... I know we don't deserve it... but... I'm curious. 

I believe you are correct Jocko and will ask / confirm if I get the opportunity... maybe today.. 

Agree also with Captain Jack that blackjack was disappointing. I bet on Croaky for the win years back more due to the fact that the Alfa boys were racing week in week out but now regardless of crew, I believe that WO mods for down wind running were undeniably successful...  

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There are many angles of the WO and Comanche's port / Starboard in that segment..... The helichopper ones are the most damning but all make me shake my head considering the level these people should be at

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5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

This is a 25min behind the scenes number. Odd how they produce these so long after the event.

 

 

@9:12 - Interesting. Comanche running with vang disconnected? 

 

 

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2 hours ago, PIL007 said:

There are many angles of the WO and Comanche's port / Starboard in that segment..... The helichopper ones are the most damning but all make me shake my head considering the level these people should be at

C'mon PIL, the complete responsibility lies at the feet of JC and JS for protesting - everyone knows mates don't do that!

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2 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

@9:12 - Interesting. Comanche running with vang disconnected? 

 

 

 

Full-length traveler can lessen the need for a boom vang at times. Figure they're sailing with plenty of twist in that config as well..

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3 hours ago, ASP said:

 

Full-length traveler can lessen the need for a boom vang at times. Figure they're sailing with plenty of twist in that config as well..

yeh -- just surprised to see that setup on something so HUGE.

Looking more closely at other shots -- they seem to rarely run one now?  I see other shots where there's a strop, but no pressure in it.  Maybe they learn't they don't need it.

I guess main never gets eased more than to the rail, then after that its dump time due to the angle of heel she runs (if they eased more, it'd be boom busting in the water time)

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AWA never really > 90.....and 2 or more sails in front of the main = no vang!

And structurally, the vang is inefficient - no vang, boom weight reduced by ~ 40 % or so

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32 minutes ago, Frogman56 said:

AWA never really > 90.....and 2 or more sails in front of the main = no vang!

And structurally, the vang is inefficient - no vang, boom weight reduced by ~ 40 % or so

She used to be rigged for a vang -- so the boom is probably built for it.

 

But I agree -- a big zero up front means the main is always sheeted in.

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15 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

@9:12 - Interesting. Comanche running with vang disconnected? 

 

 

The VO 70 is the same.... it gets used in the harbour for twilights occasionally 

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On 2/7/2018 at 2:41 AM, jackolantern said:

Comanche has a big top down furling A4 that was not on display in that video or indeed ever in this race. I wonder if they found it was too round to be useful offshore or if it was dropped off the boat for rating/weight reasons. The "Keef!" sail

 

PIL...... I know we don't deserve it... but... I'm curious. 

Comanche ran with an A3 and then a O

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18 minutes ago, PIL007 said:

Comanche ran with an A3 and then a O

Thanks, that's what I thought. My guess is the "Keef" sail is likely too inefficient at the TWS they saw during the race. For sure it's a deeper running sail but maybe they're so bow up in those conditions with such a high AWA despite their depth that the round sail is useless. For sure WOXI was flying a rounder sail than Comanche in the same conditions. 

 

Comanche-has-unfinished-business-Credit-

NorthSails-Comanche-001.jpg

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