dachopper

Sydney to Hobart 2017

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Hoppy, he's had great mileage on the "bought it on my credit card & got the crew at a funeral" line. Good luck to him, if he's happy to spend that coin to sail that slow he's obviously a very patient person. 

What of WILD OATS / ROSE? Last report was his family owned it, was looking good, but hadn't left the dock. 

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

It was good that the Komatsu Azzurro guy was included in the press conference. Given that the latest upgrade is a CF crapper, I wonder how much they have now spent on their $25k racer?

In excess of $300k and that's from the horses (Shane's) mouth a couple of years ago. I sold "Shenandoah 11" to the bloke he bought it from and have kept in touch with Shane throughout the project as a conduit to the White family who were responsible for the boats earlier exploits. There were a number of very important  reasons why he wanted that particular boat and I don't think anyone can argue that the on-going program hasn't been remarkably successful. Many offshore owners have spent truckloads more fun tickets on their boat or, in some cases, boats (plural) than Shane has and have nothing like the pickle dishes or results to show for it. The man, and that special boat, are ocean racing legends!

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2 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

I'm pretty sure its still virginal - won't get a workout this weekend, either.

The roll of 40 grit toilet paper is probably less than inviting. 

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3 hours ago, SCANAS said:

Hoppy, he's had great mileage on the "bought it on my credit card & got the crew at a funeral" line. Good luck to him, if he's happy to spend that coin to sail that slow he's obviously a very patient person. 

What of WILD OATS / ROSE? Last report was his family owned it, was looking good, but hadn't left the dock. 

It's sailing in the Admirals Cup 50th anniversary regatta this weekend.

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6 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Becks crew of 23 with prior Hobart's.

E Watts, T Oxley (12), A Wing, T Lavers, I McKillop (1), F Oleary, M Coxon (28), D Ryding, S Runow (26), G Simmer (19), B Lamb (7), J Tilse (2), A Menzies (1), C Maxted (4), D Blanchfield (27), D Wills, C Champion, D Beck, A Pratt (20), I Jensen, T Braidwood, A McLean (2), M Spence (17)

Thats a fair crew and great to see Ratty (Dave Blanchfield) on board. Could there be some new North Sails on board?

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Terra I assume a cheque going North's way also made Cocko a starter. The S2H official crew lists that have number of Hobart's up their belts is an interesting read in that many don't bother to put that number in their paperwork. For instance I think Scanas pointed out Braidwood has done a few QLD's but listed as a first timer here. 

Might be an attack of modesty for some...or just shit memory.

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32 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

It's sailing in the Admirals Cup 50th anniversary regatta this weekend.

Cool! 

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38 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

It's sailing in the Admirals Cup 50th anniversary regatta this weekend.

Here are a few more Impetuous ones, both racing boats now cruisers

impetuous.jpg

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10 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Terra I assume a cheque going North's way also made Cocko a starter. The S2H official crew lists that have number of Hobart's up their belts is an interesting read in that many don't bother to put that number in their paperwork. For instance I think Scanas pointed out Braidwood has done a few QLD's but listed as a first timer here. 

Might be an attack of modesty for some...or just shit memory.

Absolutely right on Cocko

I've not done many Hobarts by some standards but i honestly don't remember how many and I don't live and breath it some  I don't care... not sure how to find out... cyc office maybe...? 

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3 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

float that halyard!

Exactly what we were thinking when they did that. Cheers all round the fleet and on the radio when it went up.  They were noticably more stable with it deployed, that boat is a notorious roller. 

Salacia II popped one on the following downwind leg and made the same mistake.  Just no knowledge left these days.  We sailed past them...  Sadly our blooper was MIA, it got stored away many years ago and the owner forgot where...

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3 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

float that halyard!

The old guys tell me that flying them close to the water was the place to set and trim them. 

But also a pain in the arse unless it was a long leg. 

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15 minutes ago, mad said:

The old guys tell me that flying them close to the water was the place to set and trim them. 

But also a pain in the arse unless it was a long leg. 

The old guys are right in both cases!

 

TUBBY

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On 30/11/2017 at 5:32 PM, SCANAS said:

Hoppy, he's had great mileage on the "bought it on my credit card & got the crew at a funeral" line. Good luck to him, if he's happy to spend that coin to sail that slow he's obviously a very patient person. 

What of WILD OATS / ROSE? Last report was his family owned it, was looking good, but hadn't left the dock. 

Wild Rose? Saw it sailing yesterday.

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33 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

Exactly what we were thinking when they did that. Cheers all round the fleet and on the radio when it went up.  They were noticably more stable with it deployed, that boat is a notorious roller. 

Salacia II popped one on the following downwind leg and made the same mistake.  Just no knowledge left these days.  We sailed past them...  Sadly our blooper was MIA, it got stored away many years ago and the owner forgot where...

They are so stable downwind

DSC_2542.JPG

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11 minutes ago, Bill E Goat said:

They are so stable downwind

DSC_2542.JPG

Yeah when they were doing that on Friday we (Mercedes IV) decided to sorta harden up a bit just in case we got T boned...things got a bit nervy for a while there.  In the miidle of all the IOR nostalgia going on in USA-based Sailing Anarchy these days you forget how  epically crap these boats really were downwind.  With only a 0.75oz kite in the locker to hoist we poled out jibs and went lower and no slower...

 

 

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59 minutes ago, TUBBY said:

The old guys are right in both cases!

 

TUBBY

Thankfully I’m just too young to ever having to use one, though I remember the death rolls!!

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16 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

Here is some sail training tips 

5a23a3e812af7_bloopertime2.thumb.jpg.f82d3f78a56c4b5975098755d642f1a4.jpg

I see Rudy and the lads even dropped the roller furling headsail for the run. Make her look just like she did back in the day.

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11 hours ago, mad said:

Thankfully I’m just too young to ever having to use one, though I remember the death rolls!!

We chinesed with one up in the Gladstone race in about 30 knots. The foredeck looked like someone was trying to gift wrap a giraffe.

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1 minute ago, LB 15 said:

I see Rudy and the lads even dropped the roller furling headsail for the run. Make her look just like she did back in the day.

Except for all the cockpit sun protection.  Graeme Lambert comment that he could not see the sails.

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CYC says No to Blink Shaw 12

http://blinksail.blogspot.co.nz/

Sadly we've had our entry to the S2H denied. 
After months of work and preparation, the bit that got us stuck was the clause of:

 - an ORCi stability index of 115 for the configuration in which the boat proposes to race; or
 - International Standard ISO12217-2 Design Category A except that the STIX Number shall be increased to a minimum of 35.

We knew we could have got the ISO certificate at the boat launch in 2013 but didn't think we'd need it and thought we could get it later. 

We had a STIX Number of 36.697 so we thought: no problem.  We didn't know about the ORCi side, but wanted to get an ORCi rating as another handicap to compete on.  So we got the boat measured, and the ORCi stability index came out too low for the S2H, at just under 110. 

No problem, we thought, we just need to get the ISO12217 and we have the STIX (Stability Index) well in excess of the requirement. 

But, then we heard from CYCA who said that even with the ISO certificate and the STIX in excess of the requirements, they would not accept our entry. We thought of arguing this lack of understanding of what "or" means, but we figured we'd do that after getting the ISO...

We sent off two emails: one to get the ISO done formally, and another to ask the ORC people what we had to do to get a better number.  Neither replied immediately ...


So we thought ... how do we get up to a better ORCi number...?  Add weight to the keel.  So on the day we were supposed to leave for Sydney we found out from Rob that the boat was engineered for a keel that was 60kg heavier, so we could do that minimal adverse effects on performance, except for VMG running and light air performance.  Nobody could tell us at that time whether that would be OK, so we lifted the boat, stripped the keel to bare lead, and set about adding 60kg. 

At about that point we heard from the ORCi guru we'd asked for help ... he said we would need to add __300kg__ to the keel, to nearly get to 115... !  Yikes, no way that can, or should, happen.  Not only would the rig, keel structures, etc etc, pretty much the whole boat need to be re-engineered, it would no longer be a fast boat. 

Then the really bad news.  The ISO certificate criteria had changed, it now ignores the buoyancy of the cabin top and other structures above the deck.  Now we fell just short of getting that too.  He estimated that the 60 *might* have done it, but wasn't sure. 

That, the very limited time available, plus the CYCA saying that even if we did get the ISO that they would decline our entry (arguable, sure, but sailing 1200nm to Sydney to then argue and possibly lose that argument doesn't sound like a good bet).  We heard that Groupama the Volvo 70 won the Volvo Ocean Race, but the same boat wasn't able to race in S2H without adding weight to the keel.  We suspect that the ORCi SI rule set by CYCA could do with some modernisation, like their insistence on SSBs.


Just for added interest, we heard via another participant in the S2H that, with a few weeks to go that NZ Safety at Sea certs would no longer be acceptable.  With no option to do a course in Australia in time, and a requirement that half of the crew had a valid certificate.   That's a little, er, underarm too. 

Tony at 19:34

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Add it to the list.

NZ endorsed IRC certificates allow sailmaker measurements. Australian ones don't.

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50 minutes ago, SloopJohnB said:

CYC says No to Blink Shaw 12

http://blinksail.blogspot.co.nz/

Sadly we've had our entry to the S2H denied. 
After months of work and preparation, the bit that got us stuck was the clause of:

 - an ORCi stability index of 115 for the configuration in which the boat proposes to race; or
 - International Standard ISO12217-2 Design Category A except that the STIX Number shall be increased to a minimum of 35.

We knew we could have got the ISO certificate at the boat launch in 2013 but didn't think we'd need it and thought we could get it later. 

We had a STIX Number of 36.697 so we thought: no problem.  We didn't know about the ORCi side, but wanted to get an ORCi rating as another handicap to compete on.  So we got the boat measured, and the ORCi stability index came out too low for the S2H, at just under 110. 

No problem, we thought, we just need to get the ISO12217 and we have the STIX (Stability Index) well in excess of the requirement. 

But, then we heard from CYCA who said that even with the ISO certificate and the STIX in excess of the requirements, they would not accept our entry. We thought of arguing this lack of understanding of what "or" means, but we figured we'd do that after getting the ISO...

We sent off two emails: one to get the ISO done formally, and another to ask the ORC people what we had to do to get a better number.  Neither replied immediately ...


So we thought ... how do we get up to a better ORCi number...?  Add weight to the keel.  So on the day we were supposed to leave for Sydney we found out from Rob that the boat was engineered for a keel that was 60kg heavier, so we could do that minimal adverse effects on performance, except for VMG running and light air performance.  Nobody could tell us at that time whether that would be OK, so we lifted the boat, stripped the keel to bare lead, and set about adding 60kg. 

At about that point we heard from the ORCi guru we'd asked for help ... he said we would need to add __300kg__ to the keel, to nearly get to 115... !  Yikes, no way that can, or should, happen.  Not only would the rig, keel structures, etc etc, pretty much the whole boat need to be re-engineered, it would no longer be a fast boat. 

Then the really bad news.  The ISO certificate criteria had changed, it now ignores the buoyancy of the cabin top and other structures above the deck.  Now we fell just short of getting that too.  He estimated that the 60 *might* have done it, but wasn't sure. 

That, the very limited time available, plus the CYCA saying that even if we did get the ISO that they would decline our entry (arguable, sure, but sailing 1200nm to Sydney to then argue and possibly lose that argument doesn't sound like a good bet).  We heard that Groupama the Volvo 70 won the Volvo Ocean Race, but the same boat wasn't able to race in S2H without adding weight to the keel.  We suspect that the ORCi SI rule set by CYCA could do with some modernisation, like their insistence on SSBs.


Just for added interest, we heard via another participant in the S2H that, with a few weeks to go that NZ Safety at Sea certs would no longer be acceptable.  With no option to do a course in Australia in time, and a requirement that half of the crew had a valid certificate.   That's a little, er, underarm too. 

Tony at 19:34

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Bugger, not defending them, but the CYCA is logically and understandably conservative in these matters.  And ISO is a whole 'nother world...

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12 minutes ago, Jono said:

Add it to the list.

NZ endorsed IRC certificates allow sailmaker measurements. Australian ones don't.

I hadn't heard that the CYCA was refusing to recognise endorsed NZ IRC certs as endorsed, is that the case?  I'd have imagined that whether a certificate is endorsed or not is defined by the RORC Rating office as IRC owners, regarless of "on the ground" variations in what data is accepted.  That said, a bad look for IRC if standards aren't the same worldwide, I'd be sending my boat to Auckland for measurement...

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<sarcasm>

It's pretty rugged for Tony and Vesna to learn that even though they'd been sailing all over the ocean (Fiji, RNI, Cook Strait, etc.), often in seas just like the S2H (it's Wellington FFS), the vessel is actually dangerously unstable, weak and generally unsuited to offshore racing.

</sarcasm>

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53 minutes ago, theParadoxOfThrift said:

<sarcasm>

It's pretty rugged for Tony and Vesna to learn that even though they'd been sailing all over the ocean (Fiji, RNI, Cook Strait, etc.), often in seas just like the S2H (it's Wellington FFS), the vessel is actually dangerously unstable, weak and generally unsuited to offshore racing.

</sarcasm>

2 dead in 1998 on a boat that didn’t meet race stability specs. Sarc all you want, but there is no way CYCA is going to let that happen again.

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1 hour ago, theParadoxOfThrift said:

<sarcasm>

It's pretty rugged for Tony and Vesna to learn that even though they'd been sailing all over the ocean (Fiji, RNI, Cook Strait, etc.), often in seas just like the S2H (it's Wellington FFS), the vessel is actually dangerously unstable, weak and generally unsuited to offshore racing.

</sarcasm>

Sure, but as a race organiser they have to draw a line someplce and no matter where they do, someone will be just the wrong side of it.  Luck of the draw.

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That sucks, woulda been cool to see how far up the ladder they could have gone in good reaching conditions. Don't blame CYCA either , that boat is a freak .

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7 hours ago, DickDastardly said:

Sure, but as a race organiser they have to draw a line someplce and no matter where they do, someone will be just the wrong side of it.  Luck of the draw.

Wasn't that Wharro not too long ago?

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3 hours ago, Tropical Madness said:

3 weeks to go, whats the latest on the forecast.

The fleet is going to cop a belting out of the south for 3+ days. It's going to be cold, wet and thoroughly unpleasant.

In fact... if you're competing this year I'd be getting down to your local marine apparel retailer ASAP and stocking up on extra thermals, midlayers and a new set of seaboots quick smart! And a beanie, new pair of salopettes, perhaps a shiny new smock....

What's that you say? Buy an ad?

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11 hours ago, SloopJohnB said:

CYC says No to Blink Shaw 12

http://blinksail.blogspot.co.nz/

Sadly we've had our entry to the S2H denied. 
After months of work and preparation, the bit that got us stuck was the clause of:

 - an ORCi stability index of 115 for the configuration in which the boat proposes to race; or
 - International Standard ISO12217-2 Design Category A except that the STIX Number shall be increased to a minimum of 35.

We knew we could have got the ISO certificate at the boat launch in 2013 but didn't think we'd need it and thought we could get it later. 

We had a STIX Number of 36.697 so we thought: no problem.  We didn't know about the ORCi side, but wanted to get an ORCi rating as another handicap to compete on.  So we got the boat measured, and the ORCi stability index came out too low for the S2H, at just under 110. 

No problem, we thought, we just need to get the ISO12217 and we have the STIX (Stability Index) well in excess of the requirement. 

But, then we heard from CYCA who said that even with the ISO certificate and the STIX in excess of the requirements, they would not accept our entry. We thought of arguing this lack of understanding of what "or" means, but we figured we'd do that after getting the ISO...

We sent off two emails: one to get the ISO done formally, and another to ask the ORC people what we had to do to get a better number.  Neither replied immediately ...


So we thought ... how do we get up to a better ORCi number...?  Add weight to the keel.  So on the day we were supposed to leave for Sydney we found out from Rob that the boat was engineered for a keel that was 60kg heavier, so we could do that minimal adverse effects on performance, except for VMG running and light air performance.  Nobody could tell us at that time whether that would be OK, so we lifted the boat, stripped the keel to bare lead, and set about adding 60kg. 

At about that point we heard from the ORCi guru we'd asked for help ... he said we would need to add __300kg__ to the keel, to nearly get to 115... !  Yikes, no way that can, or should, happen.  Not only would the rig, keel structures, etc etc, pretty much the whole boat need to be re-engineered, it would no longer be a fast boat. 

Then the really bad news.  The ISO certificate criteria had changed, it now ignores the buoyancy of the cabin top and other structures above the deck.  Now we fell just short of getting that too.  He estimated that the 60 *might* have done it, but wasn't sure. 

That, the very limited time available, plus the CYCA saying that even if we did get the ISO that they would decline our entry

Yep, me too.

I just got measured for ORCI. SI came in at 109. This makes me ineligible for not only Cat 1 but Cat 2 races in Aus. My STIX and ISO cert, which easily pass,  are not accepted by YA. I don't even qualify for the Pittwater to Paradise...

Shoulda realised a Pogo is not suitable for offshore or coastal races, Australian weather being so much more dangerous than weather on the rest of the planet.

Hugely motivating as a boat owner to support the race program. We were gearing up for Hobart in 2018. I'll happily take the $50k+ I just saved and find another sport to dump it into that gives a flying fuck about their competitors.

 

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How can they not accept your ISO? 

Still planning on remeasure? 

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No idea mate. Bris to Keppel were happy enough with ISO, it's just a YA thing.

When I've stopped sulking in the corner, I might remeasure, but at the moment I'm too dirty over the stupidity. I get there has to be a cutoff, but the 12.50's have done Fastnets, Transats, Transpacs, nearly every bloody offshore race in the world, and not good enough for a YA Cat 2 race. 

Serves me right for buying an unstable piece of shit.

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53 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

No idea mate. Bris to Keppel were happy enough with ISO, it's just a YA thing.

When I've stopped sulking in the corner, I might remeasure, but at the moment I'm too dirty over the stupidity. I get there has to be a cutoff, but the 12.50's have done Fastnets, Transats, Transpacs, nearly every bloody offshore race in the world, and not good enough for a YA Cat 2 race. 

Serves me right for buying an unstable piece of shit.

And the national authority wonders why people are leaving the sport.

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31 minutes ago, Swanno said:

And the national authority wonders why people are leaving the sport.

its astounding.  No matter how many times people tell them why, they don't care / won't listen.

Same with local clubs trying to get the average joe out sailing.

Neither is linked to the Olympic gravy train, so care level plummets.

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Has Witty got time to get back for it if he gets flicked from the Volvo??

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14 hours ago, SloopJohnB said:



We had a STIX Number of 36.697 so we thought: no problem.  We didn't know about the ORCi side, but wanted to get an ORCi rating as another handicap to compete on.  So we got the boat measured, and the ORCi stability index came out too low for the S2H, at just under 110. 
 

To give you an idea of why Im annoyed, my ISO SI is 118, and my STIX is 41.

The STIX for Category A under ISO is >32.

One of the newest boats on the Eastern seaboard, ocean rated to the wazoo and Im not welcome for the S2H.  

Formally...fuck you CYCA and YA. 

 

 

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Just trying to parse out the entry list's line honors contenders, since it'll be a while before the official scratch sheet is published...  Is this right?  Have I missed any?  I always like it when the PHS fleet has a huge cruiser/racer that I can imagine slogging its way to a high result in line honors, but I don't see any such entries this year.

 

Tier 1 Contenders

Black Jack (RP100, previously Alfa Romeo and Esimit Europa)

Infotrack (JK100, previously Speedboat, Rambler 100, and Perpetual Loyal)

LDV Comanche (Custom 100, previously Comanche)

WOXI (RP100)

 

Tier 2 Contenders

Beau Geste (Botin 80)

Ichi Ban (Carkeek 60)

Maserati (Volvo 70, previously Ericsson 3)

Weddell (Grand Mistral 80)

Wizard (Volvo 70, previously Giacomo)

 

Other Fast Boats

Ichi Ban (Botin 52)

Indian (Carkeek 47)

Mascalzone Latino (Cookson 50)

Oskana (Cookson 50, previously Victoire)

Triple Lindy (Cookson 50, previously Akatea)

WOX (RP 66 with Wouter navigating)

 

Beyond that, I think you get into the TP52s, etc.  I guess my goal here was to identify the boats that are faster than TP52s, and to parse them out into tiers.  And perhaps some of the "other fast boats" I've listed are slower than TP52s anyway.

 

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3 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

One of the newest boats on the Eastern seaboard, ocean rated to the wazoo and Im not welcome for the S2H.  

Maybe you should have bought the fixed keel option Shaggy instead of your lets go park up, turn the music up, catch some mud crabs and drink beer swing keeler? ...or let those moths out of your wallet and bought 2 boats, one you can't take crabbing.

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23 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

Just trying to parse out the entry list's line honors contenders, since it'll be a while before the official scratch sheet is published...  Is this right?  Have I missed any?  I always like it when the PHS fleet has a huge cruiser/racer that I can imagine slogging its way to a high result in line honors, but I don't see any such entries this year.

 

Tier 1 Contenders

Black Jack (RP100, previously Alfa Romeo and Esimit Europa)

Infotrack (JK100, previously Speedboat, Rambler 100, and Perpetual Loyal)

LDV Comanche (Custom 100 VPLP/Verdier 100, previously Comanche)

WOXI (RP100)

 

Tier 2 Contenders

Beau Geste (Botin 80)

Ichi Ban (Carkeek 60)

Maserati (Volvo 70, previously Ericsson 3)

Weddell (Grand Mistral 80)

Wizard (Volvo 70, previously Giacomo)

 

Other Fast Boats

Ichi Ban (Botin 52)

Indian (Carkeek 47)

Mascalzone Latino (Cookson 50)

Oskana (Cookson 50, previously Victoire)

Triple Lindy (Cookson 50, previously Akatea)

WOX (RP 66 with Wouter navigating)

 

Beyond that, I think you get into the TP52s, etc.  I guess my goal here was to identify the boats that are faster than TP52s, and to parse them out into tiers.  And perhaps some of the "other fast boats" I've listed are slower than TP52s anyway.

 

Is it just me or does it seem likely that a lot of the smaller boats are probably much faster than the Grand Mistral 80? Wild Oats X should certainly be in the Tier 2 Contenders, especially over the GM80 and the 60' Ichi Ban, neither of which have canting keels. Will be interesting to see if Beau Geste performs well, she hasn't seemed to be that quick despite having a very competent crew.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Captain Jack Sparrow said:

Is it just me or does it seem likely that a lot of the smaller boats are probably much faster than the Grand Mistral 80? Wild Oats X should certainly be in the Tier 2 Contenders, especially over the GM80 and the 60' Ichi Ban, neither of which have canting keels. Will be interesting to see if Beau Geste performs well, she hasn't seemed to be that quick despite having a very competent crew.

 

 

Good thoughts.  Maybe Tier 2 is just the Volvo 70s and Beau Geste.

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Maybe you should have bought the fixed keel option Shaggy instead of your lets go park up, turn the music up, catch some mud crabs and drink beer swing keeler? ...or let those moths out of your wallet and bought 2 boats, one you can't take crabbing.

Jack, 

You'd be right except the swing keel is more optimised for racing than the fixed. Fixed is for depth issues.

 

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So which of the big gun's are likely to line up for the BigBoat next week

Has anyone sighted Comanche yet ?

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10 hours ago, SCANAS said:

How can they not accept your ISO? 

Still planning on remeasure? 

Had the same problem with RPAYC several years ago before Coffs, boat had a current IRC cert with SITX, had the correct ISO stability certification, but then get contacted by the RO the week before Christmas saying we needed needed an ORCi cert to prove stability, they wouldn't accept a written declaration from the designer & IRC office in the UK as acceptable, so the owner told them to stick it.

The boat in question had completed several Fastnet races and a Transatlantic as well, and the boats sistership at that stage had finished at least 5 Hobart's as well as all the other major east coast races, but it was still.unsafe in their eyes.

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Think I will start a new thread.

"Best Sailing Australia Fuck up of the Year"

Could be a very long thread.

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11 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

its astounding.  No matter how many times people tell them why, they don't care / won't listen.

Same with local clubs trying to get the average joe out sailing.

Neither is linked to the Olympic gravy train, so care level plummets.

duncan,

you are spot on with they don’t listen. Our junior fleets need YA to put a representative into each fleet to stop the crap that’s going on and it’s just to hard for then as they need to do something 

Pulpit 

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10 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

To give you an idea of why Im annoyed, my ISO SI is 118, and my STIX is 41.

The STIX for Category A under ISO is >32.

One of the newest boats on the Eastern seaboard, ocean rated to the wazoo and Im not welcome for the S2H.  

Formally...fuck you CYCA and YA. 

 

 

shaggybaxter,

You need to do a Rolly Tasker and start the Hobart at the 5 min gun and go for it. Just think we could have you in the Pogo, blink and I’m shore we could find a few more to enter the not the Sydney to Hobart 2018. We could even get Warro involved to get the media on side just to piss off a few at the cyc. 

 

This was taken from the YA website in an article on Rolly Tasker. 

“Rolly Tasker’s sailing records include the 1978 Sydney to Hobart when Siska IV was denied official starter status on a technicality. However Tasker sailed the course starting five minutes ahead of the fleet and finished an amazing 20 hours ahead of Official Line Honours winner Apollo.”

 

pulpit

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Ran Tan ll an Elliott 50 canter from NZ is normally about the same as a Cookson 50 on line. IRC - well that is a different story!

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2 hours ago, lydia said:

Think I will start a new thread.

"Best Sailing Australia Fuck up of the Year"

Could be a very long thread.

If you want a really shorty thread, then title it: Things Sailing Australia Have NOT fucked up this year. 

Still thinking...

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Pulpit, the ORCi certificate for stability verification has been the rule for a while because it's a different formula to IRC.  

I didn't think they'd accept written declarations at CAT1. 

Jack, as the boss said, Fusion is the racing version. In Shaggy's case there is a massive error in the measure because the boat has far more stability than required, it's a production boat so the NA's numbers don't lie. 

How do the foreign boats entries get accepted. On foreign country issued ISO or ORCI?

 

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12 hours ago, mad said:

Has Witty got time to get back for it if he gets flicked from the Volvo??

If he gets flicked from the VOR on a Rule 69 he wont be doing the Hobart, or indeed anything else in the sport for a while.

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On 12/5/2017 at 2:11 PM, greasy al said:

2 dead in 1998 on a boat that didn’t meet race stability specs. Sarc all you want, but there is no way CYCA is going to let that happen again.

True... but a Farr 40 IMS boat is nothing like a modern canting keel boat.  Even if their main concern is the now very remote possibility of needing to explain themselves to a coroner, time for CYCA to catch up. 

I'm not an expert...  but I'd expect having more than a ton of lead canted out 40-50 agrees off centre, a few metres out, in any kind of wave activity, is extremely likely to help the boat roll back upright or at least sideways pretty fast.  The super-beamy open 60s can right themselves by canting alone, even in flat water. And in the conditions that you're likely to roll in, the keel would always be at full cant

Much more likely that an old heavy 7ksb has it's keel fall off, after which it won't be coming upright again.

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1 hour ago, Last Post said:

If he gets flicked from the VOR on a Rule 69 he wont be doing the Hobart, or indeed anything else in the sport for a while.

That will also flick the boat. That would be a salutary lesson for the RO for letting the genie out of the bottle.

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Genuine question, why does it flick the boat?

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2 hours ago, Last Post said:

If he gets flicked from the VOR on a Rule 69 he wont be doing the Hobart, or indeed anything else in the sport for a while.

Valid point. 

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1 hour ago, DtM said:

Genuine question, why does it flick the boat?

Dt pretty doubtful Witty will get a pink slip but hypotheticaly if he did; he and the owner are pretty close and I can't see the owner going around the rest of the orange with a replacement sans Witt. Kill my brother kill me thing. Though some might argue doing that may address their BS issues.

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Gotta love it.

Jury convened and flown in for a video comment

The Rumble in Rocky gets a protest committee were every member then resigns because it got hot in the kitchen!

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The problem seems to be that they can't interpret their own rules.  You don't have to be a lawyer to see the "OR" below:  
 - an ORCi stability index of 115 for the configuration in which the boat proposes to race; or
 - International Standard ISO12217-2 Design Category A except that the STIX Number shall be increased to a minimum of 35.

We are stuck in 1998. Yes, it was a terrible tragic event. No question about that.   The technology to see forecasts wasn't like it is now.  Boats have changed design.  SSBs are dangerous too.  A fast, well built boat has the capability to escape some weather patterns.   And let's start regulating some of the muppets that are on the boats too - they are the biggest danger to themselves and to others.  

 

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7 hours ago, SCANAS said:

Pulpit, the ORCi certificate for stability verification has been the rule for a while because it's a different formula to IRC.  

 

What can I say SCANAS, No shit Sherlock. 

 

Do you think this is my first dance and I don’t have a clue ? 

 

I’ve been building race boats, Hobart boats and winners for almost 30 years as well as sailing them and I’m a YA National measurer. I under stand the rules better than most. 

 

It’s time you pulled your head in and stopped being a bar fly who thinks they know it all. I’ve had more to do with the ratings rules and systems than most. 

 

Pulpit 

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Pulpit I was referring to Gorn Frantic's post #895 i thought it was your post. 

Have we ever met?

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Stopped by Rivergate marina today, the Big Indian set to leave tonight to head to Sydney.

 

Safe trip boys and girls and bring on the Indian.

 

It’s time that Oats put the wagons in a circle. Comanche and info track one side and black jack the other and the ex Volvo 70ks just sitting back waiting. What a race this year 

 

the odds on Wild Oats getting line honour’s  might be worth a bet. 

 

Pulpit 

8C2C832B-71A0-4212-8DA8-F88809495B90.jpeg

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And if it is truly about safety, then they should be asking every single boat to reapply for their ISO as it changed in 2015. 

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7 hours ago, DtM said:

Genuine question, why does it flick the boat?

 

6 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Dt pretty doubtful Witty will get a pink slip but hypotheticaly if he did; he and the owner are pretty close and I can't see the owner going around the rest of the orange with a replacement sans Witt. Kill my brother kill me thing. Though some might argue doing that may address their BS issues.

Dt your question caused me to sit down and write this.

 

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10 hours ago, pulpit said:

shaggybaxter,

You need to do a Rolly Tasker and start the Hobart at the 5 min gun and go for it. Just think we could have you in the Pogo, blink and I’m shore we could find a few more to enter the not the Sydney to Hobart 2018. We could even get Warro involved to get the media on side just to piss off a few at the cyc. 

 

This was taken from the YA website in an article on Rolly Tasker. 

“Rolly Tasker’s sailing records include the 1978 Sydney to Hobart when Siska IV was denied official starter status on a technicality. However Tasker sailed the course starting five minutes ahead of the fleet and finished an amazing 20 hours ahead of Official Line Honours winner Apollo.”

 

pulpit

Thanks Pulpit, 

Souns like a great idea, I might put it out there and see if we can form our own unofficial little pack. We could call it the "109 Club".

Cheers,

SB

 

 

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10 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

That will also flick the boat. That would be a salutary lesson for the RO for letting the genie out of the bottle.

Would it flick the boat from the whole race or just from the leg in which the infringement took place? Surely they could continue with another skipper?

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9 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

Dt your question caused me to sit down and write this.

 

Thanks Jack,  a great piece.  Longer response in the VOR Skipper thread.

DtM

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10 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

Thanks Pulpit, 

Souns like a great idea, I might put it out there and see if we can form our own unofficial little pack. We could call it the "109 Club".

Cheers,

SB

 

 

With that idea you get another member, well known long term owner just joined the 109 club after a keel modification.

Maybe it is like the DRS in the cricket.

Defaults to 109 like over the stumps.

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On 12/5/2017 at 8:26 PM, Jason AUS said:

The fleet is going to cop a belting out of the south for 3+ days. It's going to be cold, wet and thoroughly unpleasant.

In fact... if you're competing this year I'd be getting down to your local marine apparel retailer ASAP and stocking up on extra thermals, midlayers and a new set of seaboots quick smart! And a beanie, new pair of salopettes, perhaps a shiny new smock....

What's that you say? Buy an ad?

Any particular brand that you could recommend me...?

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On 12/6/2017 at 7:16 AM, Wildboats said:

So which of the big gun's are likely to line up for the BigBoat next week

Has anyone sighted Comanche yet ?

On it's way as we speak

BTW... Big Itchy (60) won't be going... Little Itch it is

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24 minutes ago, PIL007 said:

On it's way as we speak

BTW... Big Itchy (60) won't be going... Little Itch it is

Makes sense giving the investment Matt put into the 52 over the last year (new boat, new rig etc..). Seems like he should just sell the 60 and let someone actually race it..

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34 minutes ago, ASP said:

Makes sense giving the investment Matt put into the 52 over the last year (new boat, new rig etc..). Seems like he should just sell the 60 and let someone actually race it..

He loves the 60. It is a very simple and uncomplicated boat to use so he uses every week as a day harbour boat. He is also next year planing on doing some offshore with it..

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7 minutes ago, PIL007 said:

He loves the 60. It is a very simple and uncomplicated boat to use so he uses every week as a day harbour boat. He is also next year planing on doing some offshore with it..

I Did not realize that. Good to hear, always thought it was a cool boat. Seems like a lot of the people on this forum thinks it's a dog...

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16 minutes ago, ASP said:

I Did not realize that. Good to hear, always thought it was a cool boat. Seems like a lot of the people on this forum thinks it's a dog...

ASP

It’s not a dog, it’s just a boat that is suited to some conditions and not others. The 60 foot boats just seem to fit in the odd size / rating band. 

 

The TP52’s are just a great all around Boat and in a very competitive fleet / size. The 50 to 55 foot Fleet is like the 40 ft fleet of old and like the old 40 ft boats are almost unstoppable under any rating system. 

 

Pulpit 

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On 12/6/2017 at 11:34 AM, NZW said:

True... but a Farr 40 IMS boat is nothing like a modern canting keel boat.  Even if their main concern is the now very remote possibility of needing to explain themselves to a coroner, time for CYCA to catch up. 

I'm not an expert...  but I'd expect having more than a ton of lead canted out 40-50 agrees off centre, a few metres out, in any kind of wave activity, is extremely likely to help the boat roll back upright or at least sideways pretty fast.  The super-beamy open 60s can right themselves by canting alone, even in flat water. And in the conditions that you're likely to roll in, the keel would always be at full cant

Much more likely that an old heavy 7ksb has it's keel fall off, after which it won't be coming upright again.

And if the ram(s) can't be operated? 

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man the BIG GIRL is blasting her way down the coast - currently doing over 22Knots off Port Macquarie!

at this rate they'll have the decks hosed and their asses in the pub by sunset

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