Panoramix

Wooden boats thread

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Trickypig

I'm waiting for the admin to allow me to post there. I will post here if I get results.

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11 hours ago, Tanton Y_M said:

I am looking at the Bow Roller.

As out of place as the mustache.

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6 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Wow! That’s another time all together...

the Victorian era was spooky 

There are few times in history that I would less like to have lived.

Keeriste that was an ugly era.

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18 hours ago, Malaya said:

A question for the wood specialists. I need to replace a short section of rub rail. I was told that it is Philippine Iron Wood also know as Mangkono, Xanthostemon verdugonianus. What I was told the builder fell the trees for this and was unable to float them out of the forest, had to go back in and pull them out with a tractor. This makes sense as the boat was built in Subic Bay. Back on point, I have not been able to source this wood and wonder what might make a suitable replacement or better a source for the iron wood. I would need about 3 feet ot 8/4 X 4"

https://m.facebook.com/Magkonoproducts/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0

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We had our catboats and the stiffness of society stuffed in.

In 1893 someone local had a Herreshoff “Merry Thiught” built by Nat’s Company with Naval Architecture  design and engineering instead of being built by eye and half model by the local builders. It ended the catboat racing era as it was in a single season-actually one race...

Then the workboats that survived after the rich racers bailed got internal combustion engines and the sons and daughters of those tight  assed Victorians got to fish with a lot less effort, and in casual wear and  t-shirts to boot.

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8 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Wow! That’s another time all together...

the Victorian era was spooky 

It only looks spooky in B&W.   :D

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It only smells spooky if the ladies didn't wear much perfume and the men smoke many cigars to hide the “essence” of humans in wool and heavy cotton...

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I almost bought one of those 17' cat ketches built by a friend of mine. A bit heavy to be hauling up our rocky beach. Nifty little boat.

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52 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

It only looks spooky in B&W.   :D

That's all they had.

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2 hours ago, Priscilla said:

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I really like it. 

The dual rudders are probably just a bit of overkill though, cruisers aren't going to keep her up on her ear to where you'd need them.

 

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On 12/19/2018 at 5:20 PM, Ishmael said:

The banjo is a bit of a sour note. Like Deliverance on the Solent.

3796d9dd10c8dc28edfc652f4bf10a05546d965b.jpeg

 

We had a banjo playing, cigar-smoking, beer guzzling watch captain on a Bermuda Race once, aboard Seguin, a 40' S&S sloop with a varnished hull.  Roast filet  with cabernet the first night out. Won our division. Good times.

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People it has been a pleasure to contribute to a topic on SA that has not touch wood fathomed the depths of childish insults.

My dog and I wish you all a very merry Christmas and a very happy new year.

63fTIdz.jpg

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Boat on the right was my home as a young boy.

Photo dates from 1939 but yacht was born 1907.

On a easy long loping ocean swell little burbling bubbles would appear from that counter stern like a soothing lullaby.

 

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11 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Boat on the right was my home as a young boy.

Photo dates from 1939 but yacht was born 1907.

On a easy long loping ocean swell little burbling bubbles would appear from that counter stern like a soothing lullaby.

 

15D05564-627A-414D-9326-F2FD94E15C96.thumb.jpeg.b6a0f6bd783d2fd2d818fd357f133081.jpeg

Tell us more!

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On 12/20/2018 at 1:23 AM, The Q said:

 

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Hey SoCal Anarchists,  I recall that back in the 60s there was an old, wooden 12 Meter in Newport Harbor named Newsboy.  IIRC it was owned by a print media mogul and it had a piano below as well, even though it raced.  Anybody else remember that?

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8 hours ago, Mr. Ed said:

Tell us more!

This tale starts with two bridges.

My father had a anathema to paying rent so purchased and rebuilt a two berth caravan which he deposited in the bush just a stones throw from the Grafton Bridge Auckland.

As a solo parent it suited his needs well but not mine.

Bridge 1

The Grafton Bridge was the largest single span concrete structure in Australasia when originally built replacing the first timber bridge.

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Now adorned with anti suicide barriers.

A motorway was latterly built below the bridge and given its proximity to a supply of mental health patients it has proved effective at stemming the then regular flow of plummeting persons.

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Life as a young boy beneath the bridge was not entirely devoid of fun and a local historical cemetery and pet possums added a certain verve.

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Time for tea so bridge two will follow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The authorities did not consider this caravan arrangement was fit and proper so I at times became a ward of the state and will not bore you or open old wounds for myself but a long story shortened is best and that brings me to bridge 2.

Panmure bridge spans the Tamaki river and was initially a swing bridge to allow passage for craft to pass.

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Much later this was replaced with a higher modern bridge but the foundations of the swing portion remained and were included in this structure.

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It was at this location that my father and I became the new owners and occupants of the 1907 Bailey designed yacht the Waione.

Accomodation matters resolved we for several years sailed the coast of the North Island and lived aboard.

Memories of those years are a microcosm of life in general , peaceful interludes shattered by hell voyages which are all fading in summary.

Waione at the time sported a tall Bermudan double spreader wooden rig with an accompanying lengthy bowsprit having like many yachts of that era been converted from gaff rigs.

Running backstays to high field levers kept the mast in check and if memory is correct the wooden boom was 26ft in length with a bronze worm gear roller furler attached.

Low wooded and wet is what she is and I had readily assumed as a lad that she was a converted submarine that some past owner had seen the light and adorned with a mast and sails.

My father was merchantman bosun that literally washed up in Auckland harbour after jumping ship post war with the obligatory biscuit tin of his lives possessions tucked under arm.

Unfortunately he had mistaken the lights of holiday homes on a nearby volcanic island Rangitoto as evidence of population only once ashore to be informed that the city lay a testing lengthy swim to the west.

He was a fearless seaman possessing a keen and skilful eye for survival and although money was always thin adventures were his currency and these became the foundation stones of my love for wooden yachts and the sea.

Hah, stopped a large freighter dead still in the harbour shipping lanes one fine windless day, we did all on our own which saw my father forcibly alighted from Waione and latterly fined in court.

The 6 inch crescent spanner that had been inserted in the reefing worm gear to hold a substantial reef in place with a bit on sheared and released the freed main into a dark sea. The excess of loose sail then filled with water and pressed the old girl face down for what seemed a lifetime as I stood vertical on the dog house ports whilst my father did his best impressions of Robert Shaws laconic grin.

The Waione passed to others and like for us became a member of their family having been authentically rigged as a gaffer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Priscilla! Thank you. It’s a mystery how  any of us ever survive childhood , but yours sounds more unusual than most. 

Did you get a decent formal schooling as well as all the life lessons?

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15 hours ago, unShirley said:

Hey SoCal Anarchists,  I recall that back in the 60s there was an old, wooden 12 Meter in Newport Harbor named Newsboy.  IIRC it was owned by a print media mogul and it had a piano below as well, even though it raced.  Anybody else remember that?

IIRC that was the Ray Hunt 12 Easterner

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23 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

45497453995_2a621eac05_b.jpgViolet piper by robert perry, on Flickr

Bob, that little double ender for Santa looks like shiny molded fiberglass. And that pipe, nice try. Here is an update with true lapstrake planking and a nice Rosewood bowl with Carbon Fiber pipe for your Cross Eyed Cricket Blend. 174892813_Xmas18SantaViolet3.thumb.jpg.186ccdeb4034478e32eda1a4784aec26.jpg

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On 12/17/2018 at 3:31 PM, Priscilla said:

Centre Harbour 31.

LIZZIE-B-Harbor-31.jpg.dc1806788db38b4c46c0b859938e219d.jpg

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charbor-31.thumb.jpg.f60cdee421979c388d8f516138ce3c74.jpgThese are such beautiful, fast boats!

 

 

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^^ I'm partial to the smaller sister, the Bridges Point 24.  Of course, they are fiberglass.

DSCN1159.jpg

Joel White never designed an ugly boat.

 

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On 12/22/2018 at 12:49 PM, SloopJonB said:

IIRC that was the Ray Hunt 12 Easterner

Right! I saw her at Brooklin Boatyard a few years back looking pretty sad. The bright hull had been painted and it looked like a run down race boat rather than an elegant  cruising yacht. One of the yard guys told me it was the former Newsboy. Newsboy was owned by the publisher of the LA Times IIRC.

I was living on Balboa Island back in the late 70s and both Newsboy and Tioga were moored almost right in front of my house.

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Newsboy was owned by the publisher of the LA Times

That would have been Otis Chandler back then wouldn't it? He was a guy who really did "rich" well.

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And no matter how small his sail is,  Santa is always powered up and footing off, 'cause he's Santa.  

Seriously,  he can always lay the mark,  no matter what.  Good kharma, I suppose.

If you're wondering how I know it's because like the 44th president, he takes a break out here in Hawaii every year.  Has a big red sled and a navigator with a drinking problem.

Honest.     Brought me spin sheets last year and a just now a crispy new jib. 

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1 hour ago, Rasputin22 said:

Santa has a wooden boat!

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Merry Christmas to all you wooden boat fans!

Thanks and back to you!

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On 12/21/2018 at 8:54 PM, Priscilla said:

Boat on the right was my home as a young boy.

Photo dates from 1939 but yacht was born 1907.

On a easy long loping ocean swell little burbling bubbles would appear from that counter stern like a soothing lullaby.

 

15D05564-627A-414D-9326-F2FD94E15C96.thumb.jpeg.b6a0f6bd783d2fd2d818fd357f133081.jpeg

Great to see and thanks for the story. I hung the companion photo to that 2 days ago, it's framed in wood from the mast you had in the boat. We lost that at Great Barrier in 1989. I have the roller reefing worm gear gooseneck at home too.

We grew 3 kids on  Waione, we did many thousands of miles up and down this northeastern coast of NZ cruising and classic events. I gaff rigged it in about 99 ,which made it perform a lot better,... we sail Riada now, the Davidson ketch. Waione is 3 skins , 2 diagonal and one fore and aft,cold moulded really except without glue. Riada is 4 skins cold moulded with resorcinol.

The other boat is Gypsy, which was pretty new around 1939, photo taken at Sloanes beach outside the old Richmond yacht club..I framed two and gave one to the Richmond , it's on one of their walls.

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Well you've heard it all Ed I'm sure.. gaff rigs don't go to windward yadayada. When people look at gaff rig the defining feature is a 4 sided main so they asume the reason a gaff rig won't go well to windward is the main. But the real reason is the same as any other sailing yacht and its about forestay sag and trim.

Sail them free, says the old codger in the yacht club bar who may be ancient but never sailed anything other than a some barge or working boat that still wouldn't go to windward with a carbon mast and canards. But sailing them free means slack mainsheet and slack jib luff and no frigging wonder they wallow.

Most of the jib luff tension comes from the main sheet,  sure the back stays as well, so it's about setting up the jib luff with halyard tension and bending the mast a bit forward, then hauling it all into line with the main sheet, leech, peak halyard circle. In other words, treat that circle from the main sheet a bit like a backstay on a fractional bermudan. Then you hang onto the Marconi boats to windward and power off on the reach, because that's a given.... lots of horsepower in that gaff main off the wind.

Obviously a bit of effort went into designing the rig, images are on photobucket but this device won't get em.

 

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Thanks. How close to the centre do you trim the main sheet with all that tension - do you have any sort of traveller arrangement? 

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On 12/25/2018 at 6:07 PM, Sail4beer said:

Thanks and back to you!

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Sail,

    I really liked that photo you posted a couple of days ago of the sloop. I had some fun with it and wanted to gift it back to you!

 

S4-Sloop.jpg

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Thanks Jody, that’s awesome looking! I was wondering if that boat would merit an artistic rendering...:D

I spoke with Keith yesterday. He’ll be down the shore this weekend so I can go take some pics of Transient. He has the keys to get below to see Tim’s mods and explain the whole phone booth cockpit that is now much improved.. 

Thanks again!

Kevin

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I just realized that the mast is blocking the Edwin Schottle property. 

He edited this book in 1943. Has many great descriptions in it

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On 12/24/2018 at 7:11 PM, captain_crunch said:

^^ I'm partial to the smaller sister, the Bridges Point 24.  Of course, they are fiberglass.

DSCN1159.jpg

Joel White never designed an ugly boat.

 

The CH31 (as well as the derivative 35 and 39) and the Bridges Point 24 do look like they belong together. But the CHs have a fin keel and blade rudder, whereas the BP has a full keel, if I am not mistaken.

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On 12/19/2018 at 2:02 PM, Sail4beer said:

Yup.

There they are and they could care less about us. 

Why didn’t they design something nice like the modern Italian designs in the Med?

 

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http://www.rm-yachts.com/en/rm-range

With chines appearing on so many glass boat designs I didn't realize that these had plywood hulls at first. I wasn't crazy about the shape at first when I was thinking why do that with fiberglass? But if you're working with plywood it makes sense and I started liking the look a lot more.

Plywood hull, production built, performance oriented and not loaded up with a lot of crap.

I found a couple of vids i can't put my finger on right now where they were touting how quiet the boats were below deck while underway. I'll try to find a link links anyone cares.

 

463069799_1270ext6galerieGammeRM1099image1fr1461336990L682.jpg.44ed27a5b5c250817cce2da68910eaa7.jpg

1378581830_970ext4galerieGammeRM1288image1fr1478270198L682.jpg.de60b4b429ea5fe0ace3d6b786d329c6.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, Monkey Butler said:

http://www.rm-yachts.com/en/rm-range

With chines appearing on so many glass boat designs I didn't realize that these had plywood hulls at first. I wasn't crazy about the shape at first when I was thinking why do that with fiberglass? But if you're working with plywood it makes sense and I started liking the look a lot more.

Plywood hull, production built, performance oriented and not loaded up with a lot of crap.

I found a couple of vids i can't put my finger on right now where they were touting how quiet the boats were below deck while underway. I'll try to find a link links anyone cares.

 

463069799_1270ext6galerieGammeRM1099image1fr1461336990L682.jpg.44ed27a5b5c250817cce2da68910eaa7.jpg

1378581830_970ext4galerieGammeRM1288image1fr1478270198L682.jpg.de60b4b429ea5fe0ace3d6b786d329c6.jpg

 

Plywood hulls are very stiff hence why it is so quiet, the creaking of a glass hull is often from the flexing.

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I don’t think he meant quiet due to the lack of fiberglass “creaking as it flexes”. Fiberglass does not creak or flex unless it is damaged. It is designed to be stiff.

Plywood has a lower density that provides a higher level of sound insulation-fiberglass does not provide as much sound insulation due to its higher density and hence more sound is transmitted through the material as you sail through the water. 

I think that it’s great that RM is using marine plywood for its 970 line. The hull shapes are simple and the material is suited for just those shapes. I noted that the deck is an infused combination of plywood and ‘glass and has a nice form to it, though I don’t see the need for the “moon roof” forward...

Overall, I think that’s a winner design and thanks for posting the link Monkey!

 

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51 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

I don’t think he meant quiet due to the lack of fiberglass “creaking as it flexes”. Fiberglass does not creak or flex unless it is damaged. It is designed to be stiff.

 

 

All materials flex, some more than others. I wasn't talking of delaminating noises, IME the creaking isn't so much from the hull itself but from all the inside furniture shifting around as the hull flexes. There is a reason why production GRP boats that have been raced hard end up with inside doors not closing well.

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1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

All materials flex, some more than others.

Quite right. Someone did a flex study using J/24's a number of years ago. The idea was to determine the service life of a GRP hull as it related to the amount of flexing it endures over its life.

Ah- here it is: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/bb0a/9713dd10f97e61c30efb49e0c90fa017a855.pdf

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Read it and I get it. Interesting info

What I was referring to was the claim of being quiet below decks and I don’t think monkey wasn’t talking about the sound of the movement of fiberglass underway. I can’t imagine any of my fiberglass boats making any creaks or groans. My wooden sloop- yes- in a pleasant manner

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If a grp boat is creaking and groaning you have a structural problem. Of course they way some cheaper production boats are built today I think it may be an artifact of sloppy or inadequate construction.

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A NOISY WOODEN BOAT

 

Nature of boat: Stella

Construction type: Clinker

Condition: Recently re-launched in the spring

Crew: single handed self

Seastate: short chop

Course: to weather

Noise down below, audible from cockpit: "Schlurp. Schlurp. Schlurp"

Initial response: pretend not to hear it

Cause of noise, observed when anxiety trumped idleness: in the forepeak, fountains of water shooting through the lands as the boat hits waves. Not dribbling as the upper lands normally do, but squirting.

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2 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

Help me ED, what are "lands"?

The bit where one clinker plank overlaps the other. As you know, the swelling of the wood makes them watertight, so clinker boats are always wet (or wettish).

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They land at the hood ends here in the States.

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I’ve got a really good clinker boat word: “Gerald”. A very ancient boatbuilder taught it to me: it’s the wedge shape piece you sometimes need between the frame and the plank, because of course the planks all tilt outwards a bit. I’ve just looked it up and one source disagrees with me a bit as what a Gerald is, but at least agrees that it exists. 

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I knew the term 'lands' but 'gerald' was a new one for me. 

300px-Clinker-carvel.svg.png
 
A comparison of clinker and carvel building styles.

In building a simple pulling boat, the keel, hog, stem, apron, deadwoods, sternpost and perhaps transom are assembled and securely set up. In normal practice, this will be the same way up as they will be in use. From the hog, the garboard, bottom, bilge, topside and sheer strakes are planked up, held together along their ‘lands’ – the areas of overlap between neighbouring strakes – by copper rivets. At the stem and, in a double-ended boat, the sternpost, geralds are formed. That is, in each case, the land of the lower strake is tapered to a feather edge at the end of the strake where it meets the stem or stern-post. This allows the end of the strake to be screwed to the apron with the outside of the planking mutually flush at that point and flush with the stem.

I need to work on my Geralds...

image.thumb.png.b0055b627177f8bf9ccd0f4051fa8a50.png

 

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3 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

If a grp boat is creaking and groaning you have a structural problem. Of course they way some cheaper production boats are built today I think it may be an artifact of sloppy or inadequate construction.

It's the nature of the beast with full liner boats with "drop in" bulkheads. I had a bit of creaking from the main bulkhead on my Hunter 31 when underway in sloppy water. When they are simply "sandwiched" into slots in the inner liner and then the deck liner slots over the top you have a Tab A in Slot B setup that can flex a bit in certain conditions. Curiously I could only hear it on deck, never below.

"Adequate" construction. :rolleyes: I guess they saved $10 worth of PU goo on each "unit".

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Geralds indeed exist and are useful in lapstrake/clinker designs to properly align the board angle where the top of the board edge touches the upper frame face. 

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So is the guy who puts the geralds in called a fitzgerald?

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1 hour ago, olaf hart said:

Like an old guy I knew called Gerald Fitzgerald..

I knew a Gerald F Fitzgerald. I never asked what the F was for. Among people who were so good they named them two or three times we have;

Brigadier-General Charles Bulkeley Bulkeley-Johnson;
Edward George Earle Lytton Bulwer-Lytton, Lord Lytton; 
Lionel Sackville Sackville-West, 2nd Baron Sackville. 

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I knew a big Rasta fellow in the VI who was named One Love, his younger brother was known as Two Love.  Their little sister was called Baby Love. 

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10 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

I don’t think he meant quiet due to the lack of fiberglass “creaking as it flexes”. Fiberglass does not creak or flex unless it is damaged. It is designed to be stiff.

Plywood has a lower density that provides a higher level of sound insulation-fiberglass does not provide as much sound insulation due to its higher density and hence more sound is transmitted through the material as you sail through the water. 

I think that it’s great that RM is using marine plywood for its 970 line. The hull shapes are simple and the material is suited for just those shapes. I noted that the deck is an infused combination of plywood and ‘glass and has a nice form to it, though I don’t see the need for the “moon roof” forward...

Overall, I think that’s a winner design and thanks for posting the link Monkey!

 

Here's one of the links. There is no creaking or groaning but I think it's more to the point that the boat just seems living room quiet.Considering the seas and wind conditions for that size boat with a lot of flat panels it does seem notable that you don't hear waves slapping the hull or a hint of pounding. Go about 3 minutes in.

 

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Oh BTW Sail4Beer remember that cordial pissing match we got into about Certified Sales a while back? Guess what? I just sold my boat through them! I figured what better way to see who was right than to place a listing with them. They did a good job but a few potential buyers seemed to get the same first impression of them that I had gotten.

 

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I’m glad you had a good interaction with them after all. Jeff is a good guy and their brokerage work is solid. As much as I wanted to beat them up for a steal, they held to the end for the best price for all involved in the deal.I hope that you got what you Needed for your boat.

Those plywood boats are a nice and thanks again for putting those out for the crowd. There’s a lot to be said for composite construction and they make a definite statement. 

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On 1/7/2019 at 2:44 AM, Priscilla said:

A4DC3D6B-7851-45CC-81E7-EBF3C780C29A.thumb.jpeg.348abc38ac3744059114d38ff9b9a49c.jpeg

8B7431B8-4075-4B37-B75F-6171AC4B0CCC.jpeg.4e5ba8af0839f91f56057c945adf4b2d.jpeg

DFCBDA62-1958-4CA3-994D-0DA91E2A1CD7.jpeg.e39b20e7e404edee2471a38c2359705f.jpeg

Yes, please.

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Flamingo looks nice. 

in fact all great - looks like a peter cole 40 in background - i think there i s one for sale now 

but - what sort of boat is in far background with flags down backsaty ? 

 

 

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I'm heading for a week on Bequia in the morning! I've sailed there several times over the past couple of decades but will be relying on the big jet plane for a first. I'll try and see what is up with the local wooden boat scene lately and report. Just realised I should have booked this trip over Easter because that is the big Annual Regatta but I'm ready to just get away from winter. If anyone who frequents the place has any idea of the whereabouts of a native guy named Terry (the lineman) who I knew on St John, please let me know. He worked for the phone company on St John and his wife Evelyn was the Post Mistress in Cruz Bay. I'm sure he retired home to Bequia and think I can find him by coconut telegraph but would love to hear from anyone who might have any info on him and his whereabouts.

Image result for bequia regatta

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Got nothing for you in that. Get some rest, have a good time and when you get back, clean out your pm box. Keith and I have missed meeting at his house for Transient pics but we have a fun old multihull project we’re resurrecting.

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2 hours ago, Norm said:

Flamingo looks nice. 

in fact all great - looks like a peter cole 40 in background - i think there i s one for sale now 

but - what sort of boat is in far background with flags down backsaty ? 

 

 

Yup, Tamani Peter Cole 40 with a bit of help from Bill Luders.

8MH2OiW.jpg

ew6Ly6u.jpg

For sale.

Mistral.

RCoU5EV.jpg

40ZdZkI.jpg

ixv1uhn.jpg

  • Like 1

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4 hours ago, Norm said:

Flamingo looks nice. 

in fact all great - looks like a peter cole 40 in background - i think there i s one for sale now 

but - what sort of boat is in far background with flags down backsaty ? 

 

 

Antara - a 7 metre, now living in Greece.

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Yup, Tamani Peter Cole 40 with a bit of help from Bill Luders.

8MH2OiW.jpg

ew6Ly6u.jpg

For sale.

Mistral.

RCoU5EV.jpg

40ZdZkI.jpg

ixv1uhn.jpg

Tanami and Theme were built together, Mistral IX later - Mistral still has an attached rudder, Tanami has a detached, balanced rudder.

 

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Thanks but Rudder in the boat I saw wasn’t transom hung - also there was foscle ? forward of mast.

looked  longer  than 33 maybe 40 - 42 on deck ? 

Cheers

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