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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
vibroman

F1 2017

418 posts in this topic

May as well get it started...

Looking more and more like Bottas to Mercedes with Wehrlein going to Sauber.

Ferrari to reveal Feb 24.

It will be good to see Massa back hopefully they can give him a car to go out in style.

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Surprised Mercedes didn't make a play for Massa? Underated, IMHO....

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Good thought but I doubt Massa would have been into another Shumi/Fernando situation given the skills of Hamilton

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Good thought but I doubt Massa would have been into another Shumi/Fernando situation given the skills of Hamilton

You're probably right, but would love see what Massa could do with a silver arrow around him.

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Might just get your wish with all the money they must have dropped into Williams' lap. Historically given a budget they are as quick or quicker than most.

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Unfortunately Wehrlein at Sauber quite certainly means Nasr out of the grid (there's still a bit of hope with Manor).

 

And yeah, I really hope Williams can give Massa a decent car and that he finds the driving he used to boast prior to the accident in Hungary.

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I dont think massa would go back to williams unless he thought the odds were very good for a competitive car. He would also be a clear number one. Paddy Lowe etc. I really think williams got mercedes to commit to a very close to full power 2017 spec engine for letting bottas go. Its what I would do. That commitment from mercedes in writing gets you better sponsorship deals etc I would think.

 

I think bottas has the potential to be faster than hamilton in the same equipment outright on a given lap.

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I think nasr lost his sponsor money so he is likely out of a seat. I don't see williams fighting with ferrari or red bull this year. I'm hoping the rules shake up will allow for a closer 3 way fight this season. we'll see.

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Mercedes to unveil at Silverstone Feb 23

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I think nasr lost his sponsor money so he is likely out of a seat. I don't see williams fighting with ferrari or red bull this year. I'm hoping the rules shake up will allow for a closer 3 way fight this season. we'll see.

yes, he has. he was sponsored by a brazillian public bank. given our economy is, well, in pretty bad shape, the bank did not renew the sponsorship contract.

 

he's a hell of a pilot, imho, but no cash no seat. :(

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So,who will show up at Barcelona with a car capable of running more than 100 laps? Will Merc humble the field again? Will Hass get more than 20 laps all week? Will Renault blow up a bunch of new spec power units? Will Ferrari be competitive?

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Surprised Mercedes didn't make a play for Massa? Underated, IMHO....

 

me too. seems like a no brainer for all parties. massa is a proven #2 they can use on a year to year basis until someone better comes along (vettel, alonso, max), they won't lose any money to williams with cheaper engines and massa is a damn reliable driver.

 

strange.

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I'll bet it was more to do with Massa not wanting to be in the proven #2 slot again. He had to deal with that with at Ferrari a couple of times in his career and probably does not have the stomach for it again. I think Williams might be the dark horse this year.

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I read massa said he'd return if he had a competitive car. they don't come more competitive than merc. button is another option.

 

seems strange that merc is pursuing bottas so badly when there are two very good, respected drivers on the free market.

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I read massa said he'd return if he had a competitive car. they don't come more competitive than merc. button is another option.

 

seems strange that merc is pursuing bottas so badly when there are two very good, respected drivers on the free market.

Jensen is technically under contract to McLaren. I know Exxon Mobile is dropping McLaren this year so they could (as usual) use some cash but aren't leaving the Honda PU fold. Jensen may be too laid back for Mercedes these days but I'd love to see him in a final season with a top car. If he could get a win at silver stone, you'd need full wets to get around the podium.

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kid's gotta chip on his shoulder...

 

Lewis Hamilton says Mercedes must consult him on who should replace Nico Rosberg next season but warned them against signing a big name

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/dec/15/lewis-hamilton-f1-mercedes-valtteri-bottas-fernando-alonso-williams

 

so what is Nico going to do?

 

Lewis is a great driver in a superb car. He believes too many of the "greatest driver ever" stories.

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Lewis is a great driver in a superb car. He believes too many of the "greatest driver ever" stories.

 

So does merc put in a sub par driver to appease Lewis. Or get someone with some chops to give him a challenge

 

Obviously merc wants to dominate... Lewis needs to understand that if the team does good. He does good...

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Lewis is a great driver in a superb car. He believes too many of the "greatest driver ever" stories.

So does merc put in a sub par driver to appease Lewis. Or get someone with some chops to give him a challenge

 

Obviously merc wants to dominate... Lewis needs to understand that if the team does good. He does good...

 

 

Hamilton and Alonso under the same roof again would probably be twice as toxic as it was before. Whatever the merits of Lewis's personality the "twin star" team hasn't been particularly successful of late. Pretty clear Mercedes can't manage that kind of team based on the last years drama between Nico and Ham; if they had done a better job they probably wouldn't be in the mess they are now.

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kid's gotta chip on his shoulder...

 

Lewis Hamilton says Mercedes must consult him on who should replace Nico Rosberg next season but warned them against signing a big name

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/dec/15/lewis-hamilton-f1-mercedes-valtteri-bottas-fernando-alonso-williams

 

so what is Nico going to do?

Nico's retiring at the top of his game in his mind. Can't blame him, he's banked enough money, has a beautiful wife and new child. I would do the same thing if in his position, and spend more time racing boats at home instead of globetrotting.

 

Lewis needs to check his ego at the front door.

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From what I've read elsewhere, Hamilton's contract says he needs to be consulted but he doesn't get a say in the final decision. This is just to soothe his ego, other drivers (Alonso for example) actually get a vote on their teammate.

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no manor = no seat for nasr (although he doen't have the $$$ either). bummer.

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the new wider tires look strange. it will take some getting used to for me:

 

1022.6666666666666x767__origin__0x0_Merc

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the new wider tires look strange. it will take some getting used to for me:

 

1022.6666666666666x767__origin__0x0_Merc

 

Going to make for interesting suspension loads as compared to the high profile tires. I guess 1/2 of the suspension compliance over bumps/curbs, etc. came from the tires. Now, a lot more of that has to go through the suspension, putting a lot more load on the wheels and those components.

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there is still a fair bit of sidewall. iirc pirelli wanted to go really low profile but got push back from the teams. it think low profile would have looked better. oh well. as long as the racing is better.

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Confirmed

Bottas to Mercedes. Massa back to Williams, Wherlein confirmed atSauber

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-confirms-bottas-as-hamilton-s-teammate-865891/

and that pretty much puts an end to the dance of chairs' 2016/2017 version.

 

unless manor gets saved in the last minute.

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Confirmed

Bottas to Mercedes. Massa back to Williams, Wherlein confirmed atSauber

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-confirms-bottas-as-hamilton-s-teammate-865891/

and that pretty much puts an end to the dance of chairs' 2016/2017 version.

 

unless manor gets saved in the last minute.

 

 

Manor has an offer on the table. It includes all 3 entities, Just Racing Services Ltd, Just Racing Ltd and Manor Grand Prix Racing Ltd, not just the racing team that is under administration. Buyer gave the administrators/ until the 20th to accept or reject.

 

Ron Dennis and his investors?

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^^ Now theres a thought

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^^ Now theres a thought

Indeed!

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the new wider tires look strange. it will take some getting used to for me:

 

1022.6666666666666x767__origin__0x0_Merc

Should have seen the F1 cars of the 70's

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Bottas gets his shot at the big time. Guess all the guys are in the gym getting ready for more g's.

 

I would be surprised if ron dennis came back to a team like manor.

 

I would love to see audi switch to f1 instead of just shutting down the top level racing. Could be they are going full gas on driverless technology now though.

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This was inevitable since Liberty and John Malone decided to buy.

F1 would not be F1 without Bernie's contribution and we should all be thankful of his achievement but it was time.

I think it will be positive.

From a selfish perspective I hope we will see some kind on on-line delivery for grands prix here in the US instead of the grainy sky feeds via cricfree. Or occasional races via channel 4 .... Personally we have no cable or satellite.

I think putting Ross Braun in charge of the technical side is a master stroke and the sport will be better for it. I hope they do not compromise the technical side for the "ESPN esque" "show". I think Ross will ensure that.

 

VM

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Fired.

This. "Chairman Emeritis" to soften it a bit but in typical Bernie fashion, he says he was "dismissed" and I'm sure there was no negotiation. It was time and I ageee with vibroman that we have to hope Liberty doesn't go too "ESPN" with it and the Bernie essentially made F-1 when no one else would step up.

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I predict the end of an era. Like the guy or not he put on a good show for a lot of years and I for one will miss his hand in management. Mark my words in less than two seasons you will mourne his departure. Just the television direction and delivery itself will suffer greatly immediately. His behind the scenes diplomacy to keep egos and manufacturers and drivers in line will also be missed. The new guys would be fools not keep him around to keep the whole thing lubricated.

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Bernie made F1, no doubts. And for that great respect.

 

But it's tough to have someone who's admitted to paying millions in bribes as the head of a US publicly traded company, and it's been kinda clear for the past few years he couldn't guide F1 where he thought it should be/where it needs to go.

 

With or without the buyout I think the "old" F1 is dead.

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So long as it don't git NASCAR'd.

 

holy cow you aren't kidding. their new format is a convoluted mess!

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I am going temper my earlier statement a bit as I just read a PLanet F1 bit about Ross Brawn's position in the new order. If he is listened to by the other managers I believe the opportunity exists for a good change. It helps that he has was the new buyers' consultant going into the deal. He has the respect of many key players and he loves the sport. Clearly he can manage people as well.

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Chase Carey was on squawk box (CNBC) this morning. I didn't know he was(among a lot of other big jobs) chairmen of Fox etwork at one point.

 

Guess F-1 is about to be "Fair and Balanced"

 

Of note. Under CVC, F-1 had 1 person working sponsorship and zero working marketing. I'm still not buying the "every race a Super Bowl" week for the sponsoring city.

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Well that's a shame. I was rather hoping they'd find a way to pull through. But I guess it's hard to find somebody to pony up the cash when the whole game has looked so one-sided for a couple years.

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I read an article that postulated the new owners might stop paying ferrari their annual 100mm bonus for just showing up. Forget whether it dollars or euros. Same article also went on to suggest there would also be an attempt to level the playing field for smaller teams from an economic standpoint. Little late for manor.

 

I watched a lot of the daytona 24 hours this weekend. Acura brought the new nsx and it did very well as did the new forg gts and the cadillac protypes. Good racing there.

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I read an article that postulated the new owners might stop paying ferrari their annual 100mm bonus for just showing up. Forget whether it dollars or euros. Same article also went on to suggest there would also be an attempt to level the playing field for smaller teams from an economic standpoint. Little late for manor.

I watched a lot of the daytona 24 hours this weekend. Acura brought the new nsx and it did very well as did the new forg gts and the cadillac protypes. Good racing there.

There was good racing at Daytona. As seems to be the case lately, contested in 3/4 classes until the end but I think the Pc class just tries to survive Daytona. Glad to see WTR finish on top but that last pass was a bit aggressive. Most of the night in the rain.not sure I'd find that bit a lot of fun. Good to see Lexus and Acura out there. Ford didn't get the 1,2,3 they wanted but seeing 3 makes in 1,2,3 says good things about the class.

 

Only heard a couple of BOP whines during the interviews.

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Ive been going back and forth on the late pass by the winning caddy. I can see a small argument for the leading car needing be on top of his mirrors and not closing the door so hard. The nature of the turn seems to leave room for an early turn in if the leading car goes for the optimal line. The car behind was backing out of the pass but the leading car left no room at the end. Also trailing car was in control wasnt doing a zamikaze dive where even if the leading car left room it would have neen booted. I think thats what the stwards were factoring in.

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Ive been going back and forth on the late pass by the winning caddy. I can see a small argument for the leading car needing be on top of his mirrors and not closing the door so hard. The nature of the turn seems to leave room for an early turn in if the leading car goes for the optimal line. The car behind was backing out of the pass but the leading car left no room at the end. Also trailing car was in control wasnt doing a zamikaze dive where even if the leading car left room it would have neen booted. I think thats what the stwards were factoring in.

 

I agree. I also believe the stewards were calling the race "loosely." Witness the last 2 restarts where the lead car started early on the first once and got a verbal warning followed by the tire scrub weaving for the last 400 meters or so on the last restart that, according to the announcers is banned as the leader needs to establish his lane prior to the final turn. Either could have been a 5 sec penalty if I understand the rules (and I may not). IN any case, it seems that they took the position "let them race."

 

It as obvious from the shots of the pit box that Wayne expected to have to give back the position or be given a penalty.

 

Disappointed the media went to Gordon first on the podium coverage. I get he was the first they got to but he ran one stint in the daytime dry condition and Max, Jordan and Ricky won the race. Good to see Max finish his career with a watch.

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Mercedes sandbags.

Ferrari and Redbull feel really good.

Honda, they'll be trying.

Headline...."Hamilton wins forth Championship"!!!

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To all those who "will miss Bernie".

You are clueless. F1 has been held back by this scumbag. He is a money grabber and kept the sport ticking along as a means to make money.

20 years ago F1 management had the chance to really take control of the teams and make it fairer for junior teams. Including sponsorship opportunities as well as TV rights dividends.

There is no doubt that having 8 out of 10 teams with a real shot of the World Championship[ would create a better show but not Bernie. He just did his cronies a favour and shut out minor teams. To the point McLaren haven't really given a shit about being mediocre as they still get gobbs of money for showing up. That is not right.

Bernie didn't even give a shit about future generations of fans. He was even quoted saying why would he care about sponsorship towards young fans when he can get the same or more money from sponsors for rich old white men. CVC was making hundreds of millions but let several teams go under. That is the only evidence needed to show what a scumbag he is.

 

I welcome Liberty Media and the old fuck put out to pasture. They can't make it any worse the he has.

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;-)

Cyril A said that a bunch of parts onm this car were "rapid Prototypes" and the real parts will be in Barcelona next week.

A bunch of twiddley aero bits on all the cars so far

Force India tomorrow

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Force India ...ugliest shark fin so far. Hopefully that changes before Melbourne.

 

I wonder what they are hiding with the rear wheels on blocks?

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I'm sure we'll see someone's logo on the fins by mid season. Liberty is all about promotion. Would not suprise me to see a "series sponsor" with required space for signage by 2018.

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looks like xzibit designed fi's front wing:

 

saygkpjsnwfie5wroqff.png

Really that's all you got from that pic..it's the most interesting to date..

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for the sake of completeness. 2017 force india:

 

1022.6666666666666x767__origin__0x0_Forc

 

http://www.planetf1.com/news/force-india-unveil-the-new-vjm10/

 

yeah, the fin is ugly. missed marketing opportunity, too. look at all that perfectly flat real estate that could be sold off to sponsors.

 

I missed the blocks. maybe it is just to raise the rear end for better viewing from the audience? strange.

So the new front and rear wing regulations had little to do with performance and all about making the cars sexy but they let them still put in that drivers crash cage nose knuckle. WTF.

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Apparently the "five head" is to allow them to exploit some suspension location rule.

Merc on track ahead of reveal today looks sexy. Much more discrete shark fin

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Sauber and FI look like 10 year old designs compared to the Mercedes. With the reduced shark fin it will be interesting to see how the remaining big 3 handle it.

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The Force India is frankly hard to look at. It's every bad trend and rule interpretation of the last decade mated with a horribly boring livery. Plus I thought they were allowed a fairing to hide the completely unnecessary step nose.

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seems sort of "whats the point" language. which, if like some of the others, they are going to rebuild all of the aero on the car in the next month anyways I get. It's not really a "reveal" anymore, it's a teaser, or a head fake.

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I don't like the shark fins one bit but Ferrari has the most pleasing to the eye one thus far. I guess Mercedes weren't the only people who saw the loophole.

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The "shark fins" remind of the wings on dirt track modifieds. old is new again...

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Ferrari fastest this morning.

 

Did anyone watch the Daytona? best one I've seen in years. definitely going to watch races with stages. Good job NASCAR.

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Ferrari fastest this morning.

 

Did anyone watch the Daytona? best one I've seen in years. definitely going to watch races with stages. Good job NASCAR.

 

Got to agree. The points for stages makes them fight for position 3 times rather than running less than 10/10 and strategizing to be in the top 10 with good tires and enough gas with 10 laps to go.

 

Still get bored with restrictor plate tracks.

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Jerez setting times today faster than the fastest time last year after 4 days. Mercedes, Ferrari and Williams the class of the field so far. RB with some sensor problems that limited laps. McLaren and Hass chasing gremlins much of the day.

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The Merc boys have definitely found more than a few things that are outside of the box.

 

Here is a shark fin with an exhaust chimney so they can potentially make their sidepods smaller

 

f1-barcelona-pre-season-testing-i-2017-l

 

And then they added a double wing

 

f1-barcelona-pre-season-testing-i-2017-l

 

Still KR was fastest of all and ran on the soft tire, while LH's best lap was on the super soft. That bodes well for Ferrari.

 

MS

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Agreed

Ferrari look pretty sporty so far.

A liitle surprised by RBR... was expecting more aero innovation from Newey, it should be his year. Car looks pretty plain jane aprt from the nose hole.

Early days yet of course

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seems sort of "whats the point" language. which, if like some of the others, they are going to rebuild all of the aero on the car in the next month anyways I get. It's not really a "reveal" anymore, it's a teaser, or a head fake.

 

and I was wrong, wrong, wrong. McLaren looks toast so far. Fast-ish, but unreliable, with a huge packaging fuckup with their oil tank.

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Agreed

Ferrari look pretty sporty so far.

A liitle surprised by RBR... was expecting more aero innovation from Newey, it should be his year. Car looks pretty plain jane aprt from the nose hole.

Early days yet of course

RBR doesn't seem to bring the entire package to the first test. Lots of reliability running. Content to be 2 sec off the fastest. Lots of flow via and rake time.

 

Merc looks very solid and playing with the shark fin or t wing options. Ferrari looks very tidy. Haas looking better sorted today.

 

FIA has listed 5 things suspensions can't do and be legal. Rumors Merc fails 2 of those and RBR fails 3. Wonder if we'll see alternate suspensions in the second test.

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Ferrari fastest this morning.

 

Did anyone watch the Daytona? best one I've seen in years. definitely going to watch races with stages. Good job NASCAR.

40 cars start 25 finish... not great IMO.....I like the stages though...and I like the 5 min damage rule...

 

in 2016 only 6 cars left the race. with 34 cars no worse than 2 laps down 31 cars on the lead lap with 2015 being almost the same stats...

 

I wish nascar would just get rid of the plates, and remove the aero. the drivers will either lift,or become grease stains on the wall... there has got to be a happy medium. mabye take away the plate, leave the aero, but add the bus stop at the back stretch to keep the speeds manageable... nothing stack about stock car racing anymore..

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C'mon It's NASCAR rubbin's racin.

 

The drivers will get used to the system and adjust accordingly but for the next few it will be fun to watch as back markers win a few and take some points. All good I say!

 

Merc look good again. The new rules should favor the stronger engine. Hopefully it will be closer this year.

 

Insignificant tire ware is a problem though with fewer pit stops the faster car will separate from the bunch mid race.

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Bets on who is going to last longer: #45 as president or Alonso as a MacLaren driver? Annnnnnnnnd go!

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A pretty cool comparison...

 

5 days and a little bit until we go for real. Cant wait....

MS

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I'm pretty stoked for the season. Hoping it will be much closer at the front of the pack. The midpack battle should be good as well!

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I'm pretty stoked for the season. Hoping it will be much closer at the front of the pack. The midpack battle should be good as well!

 

Yep. Went through and programmed the VCR for Albert Park yesterday.

 

Anybody know what happened to Ferrari's whine about Merc and RBR's front suspension "stored energy" issues?

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I'm pretty stoked for the season. Hoping it will be much closer at the front of the pack. The midpack battle should be good as well!

Yep. Went through and programmed the VCR for Albert Park yesterday.

 

Anybody know what happened to Ferrari's whine about Merc and RBR's front suspension "stored energy" issues?

 

Thanks for the reminder, heading to the VCR!

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