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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
vibroman

F1 2017

418 posts in this topic

All red front row for tomorrow

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Bit  of a procession really.

A little intrigue towards the end but no way any one is passing in anger.

Class move by LH at the end to give up a couple of champ pts and let Valtteri podium. Not too many in same situation would have done that.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, vibroman said:

Bit  of a procession really.

A little intrigue towards the end but no way any one is passing in anger.

Class move by LH at the end to give up a couple of champ pts and let Valtteri podium. Not too many in same situation would have done that.

 

 

Shows some respect by LH and the team. Let him by. If he can't pass Rik, then give the position back. As you say.  Class move.  

 

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12 hours ago, vibroman said:

Bit  of a procession really.

A little intrigue towards the end but no way any one is passing in anger.

Class move by LH at the end to give up a couple of champ pts and let Valtteri podium. Not too many in same situation would have done that.

 

 

 

I missed the part when Valteri let Lewis by, to attack Kimi, so was a bit gobsmacked to see Lewis let him by at the end.  Until it was explained anyway....

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13 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

I missed the part when Valteri let Lewis by, to attack Kimi, so was a bit gobsmacked to see Lewis let him by at the end.  Until it was explained anyway....

They didn't show the Hamilton pass live, but did show it on replay. Bottas nearly drove off of the track to let him by. And letting him have the spot back certainly gets some good behavior points. 

Watching Verstappen, I can't help but think of how well developed my ability to piss people off was at his age...but that boy is light years ahead of where I was. 

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

They didn't show the Hamilton pass live, but did show it on replay. Bottas nearly drove off of the track to let him by. And letting him have the spot back certainly gets some good behavior points. 

Watching Verstappen, I can't help but think of how well developed my ability to piss people off was at his age...but that boy is light years ahead of where I was. 

Max is a wee bit immature, for sure; but he is one HELLUVA talented driver!! 

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3 hours ago, billy backstay said:

Max is a wee bit immature, for sure; but he is one HELLUVA talented driver!! 

banging (unintentionally) your car against your teammate, at the risk of not only damaging his car (which ended happening) but also your own car (which by pure luck did not happen this time) doesn't count as talent on my book. but maybe it was just (another) brain farth by max. danny is righteously pissed off.

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11 minutes ago, Trovão said:

banging (unintentionally) your car against your teammate, at the risk of not only damaging his car (which ended happening) but also your own car (which by pure luck did not happen this time) doesn't count as talent on my book. but maybe it was just (another) brain farth by max. danny is righteously pissed off.

He didn't do it on purpose, but lost steering for moment when he locked the brakes to avoid running into the car in front of him.

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

He didn't do it on purpose, but lost steering for moment when he locked the brakes to avoid running into the car in front of him.

Of course not, hence the "unintentionally" between brackets in the beginning of my first sentence. But locking brakes because you were too "hot" into the manouver is seldom a demonstration of such talent.

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I stand by my opinion, based upon his results, as a fairly new F1 pilot, that he is a very talented driver, who just needs to mature a bit more.  Vettel was far worse when he intentionally banged into someone recently.

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37 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

I stand by my opinion, based upon his results, as a fairly new F1 pilot, that he is a very talented driver, who just needs to mature a bit more.  Vettel was far worse when he intentionally banged into someone recently.

I agree Max has talent, but it is still very raw. He has a lot to mature in order to become a champion.

And I also agree Vettel was far worse on that episode. He seems to be an odd case of a german with a latin temper. Ferrari's influence?

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I think the driving was pretty intense in numerous places in the race. Kimi was not happy. Bottas was not happy. Riccardo not happy. Alonso happy. the new guys in the directors chair spent too much time trying to zoom in on cars though some of the stuff was cool. The top 4 lapped the field up to 6th or something. May not have looked exciting the whole time but they were after it hard the entire race. Pity ferrari engineered the race instead of letting kimi race vettel though thats the name of the game I guess.

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great race for alonso! I think the results would have been the same for ferrari if they had let kimi and seb swap but this result was the best result for their #1 driver. they just did want merc wanted to do but didn't. 

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9 hours ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

I think the driving was pretty intense in numerous places in the race. Kimi was not happy. Bottas was not happy. Riccardo not happy. Alonso happy. the new guys in the directors chair spent too much time trying to zoom in on cars though some of the stuff was cool. The top 4 lapped the field up to 6th or something. May not have looked exciting the whole time but they were after it hard the entire race. Pity ferrari engineered the race instead of letting kimi race vettel though thats the name of the game I guess.

I think Ferrari is pretty clearly playing the "first driver" game and no doubt wanted Kimi as a blocker to the Mercs given Seb's suspension issue.  Merc is letting their driver's race with respect as long as it doesn't get nasty and is willing to play by gentlemen's rules as long as the drivers do. 

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Will the goddamn summer break ever end???

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36 minutes ago, suider said:

Will the goddamn summer break ever end???

I am certainly ready for racing to resume post haste!

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you mean nascar and Indy isn't enough to  hold you over...

The Watkins Glenn Nascar race wasn't too bad

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41 minutes ago, Marcjsmith said:

you mean nascar and Indy isn't enough to  hold you over...

The Watkins Glenn Nascar race wasn't too bad

That's like comparing PHRF to OD.

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1 hour ago, Marcjsmith said:

you mean nascar and Indy isn't enough to  hold you over...

The Watkins Glenn Nascar race wasn't too bad

NASCAR on road courses is like watching elephants dancing.  It has gotten better with the latest generation of cars but it's not V-8 Supercars. 

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44 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

NASCAR on road courses is like watching elephants dancing.  It has gotten better with the latest generation of cars but it's not V-8 Supercars. 

And Indycars are just like the local Demo Derby, that went to college!!

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Ferrari announced that Kimi has signed for another year. But the real question is why didn't they wait to announce it at Imola? And why haven't hasn't Seb signed (or if he has, why hasn't it been announced)? And are those two things related?

In other rumours, Alonso is reportedly waiting to see what engine McLaren have in 2018 before he signs. The 2 part follow-up question is, if he doesn't sign with McLaren, where will he go? And who will fill the seat?

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1 hour ago, Nice! said:

Ferrari announced that Kimi has signed for another year. But the real question is why didn't they wait to announce it at Imola? And why haven't hasn't Seb signed (or if he has, why hasn't it been announced)? And are those two things related?

In other rumours, Alonso is reportedly waiting to see what engine McLaren have in 2018 before he signs. The 2 part follow-up question is, if he doesn't sign with McLaren, where will he go? And who will fill the seat?

Heard Vettel announcement will happen at Monza.  No other place but Ferrari for him with Mercedes "happy with their current lineup" and Merc is rumored to be looking at no changes before 2019 to have a shot as an up and comer (Max?). 

Alonso is caught out.  It's either McLaren or Renault (or leave F1) and apparently he's saying he won't decide until the end of the season. 

More good drivers than cars ATM. 

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I think he'll stay with mac because he won't have any other options, especially if he waits.

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indycar for alonso is an option, he is racer and those guys for better or worse with their full course yellow pit stop lottery definitely do some wheel to wheel racing. It would be a big PR boost to get him in an Indycar. I am having a lot of fun watching it this year. The ex-F1 guys are doing well

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31 minutes ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

indycar for alonso is an option, he is racer and those guys for better or worse with their full course yellow pit stop lottery definitely do some wheel to wheel racing. It would be a big PR boost to get him in an Indycar. I am having a lot of fun watching it this year. The ex-F1 guys are doing well

Agree, although he seems to be focused more on just the Indy 500 rather than the series. A competitive ride can do a lot for focus, though. 

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I have to say that I am beginning to see some sparks of the 90s before the split with the racing in indycar. A few more big names like alonso and maybe massa and the money will improve. They have to fix the full course caution lottery.  Too many multi car teams can engineer a win by sacrificing a rookie or whatever. Fucks the whole show up.

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Watched some of the qualis today!  Kudos to Lewis for matching Schooeys number of poles!  Going to be a helluva a race with Lewis and Seb on the front row, Valteri third, and Max somewhere up near the front, don't recall exactly where.  Best course of the year, IMHO!

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Meh. Without a doubt Hamilton is a great driver but the rules changes over the last few iterations haven't had the desired effect. Costs haven't gone down.  Once a team gets ahead, it's extremely hard for others to catch up.  That allows a great driver who is on the right team to dominate. Seb's run at RBR.  Hamilton now at Merc.  It's taken 3 years for Ferrari and RBR to get back into the game and they are still that bit behind on pace and/or reliability. Current rules heavily reward the first to master the changes (tip of the hat to Merc) and give a huge advantage to their drivers while limiting the ability of the pack to catch up.  

Trying to draw a side by side comparison to a driver from the past is comparing apples to oranges. 

F-1 is becoming a parade. Too many start to finish runaways where mechanical failure or shunts are the only things that change the results.  Indycar "spec racing" is the opposite extreme and is becoming open wheel NASCAR. Somewhere in the middle or go back to unlimited development is needed to spice up competition. 

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I agree somewhat about the rules changes, and commentators today were bemoaning them.  Some of them are well meaning, trying to give the lesser funded "Privateer Teams", a fighting chance against the richer "factory teams".  But their carping falls flat, when they complain that a rich team cannot have a complete "spare car" ready to go.  It costs more for the rich team to comply, so maybe some slight advantage for the poorer team...  No way the poorer team can afford to field all up spare cars..

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Parade up front so far, with mash-ups in the middle, but I've had it paused for a while, so I can squirt through the adverts....

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Tires: Instead of "soft, super soft, and ultra soft"... how about "hard, medium and soft"?

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because this weekend the hard and medium were not available. Pirelli's complete line are

Hard

Medium

Soft

Super soft

Ultra soft

Intermediate

Full Wet.

They make 3 compounds of slicks available for each weekend. Teams can then choose how many of each compound they want for each driver for the weekend.

Not sure we will even see the hard compound this year.

 

 

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Just watched the repeat. 

It was like watching Michael and Mika fighting it out all over again, If all F1 courses were as exciting.

Should Alonso go to Williams and let Massa retire?
At least Williams has some degree of reliability and pace.

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F1  is great too watch, got up at 0500 and enjoyed every lap....  great course in Belgium..

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Good race. Still dont understand how vettel goofed up the pass on the restart. He was too close and did not get a big enough run before popping out into the wind. Lots of incredible driving at high speed in close quarters by almost everyone. Lots of red mist in the helmets at force india. Nbc had one full lap in car with vettel that was very cool, the talking heads were silent. Would like to see way more of that!

 

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Don't understand why Botas could not drive with the same compound as Lewis at the end.  Much speculation the Mercedes might buy out Verstappen's contract and replace Valteri with him.

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8 hours ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

Good race. Still dont understand how vettel goofed up the pass on the restart. He was too close and did not get a big enough run before popping out into the wind. Lots of incredible driving at high speed in close quarters by almost everyone. Lots of red mist in the helmets at force india. Nbc had one full lap in car with vettel that was very cool, the talking heads were silent. Would like to see way more of that!

 

I don't think he goofed up just the merc out ran him. merc set their car up for straight line speed and that was where it paid off. it was a great try, but between the setup and possibly extra hp, the lewis came out on top. that was the best part of the race. 

sucks for max. I would have liked to see what he could do. I don't know what happened to valteri. he seemed to just coast through this one. 

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Bottas had been struggling all weekend on anything else but the ultras, it seemed... which was odd that the mercs were the ONLY team not to bring a full complement of ultras.. which would have cost them dearly if LH wasn't able to hold off Vettel...

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13 hours ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

Good race. Still dont understand how vettel goofed up the pass on the restart. He was too close and did not get a big enough run before popping out into the wind. Lots of incredible driving at high speed in close quarters by almost everyone. Lots of red mist in the helmets at force india. Nbc had one full lap in car with vettel that was very cool, the talking heads were silent. Would like to see way more of that!

 

Post race interview with LH he said he was in the wrong mode and that got vettel close to him. Once he fixed the mode he realized that vettel was too close to get a run and with the mercs full power top end as soon as he pulled out would go backwards. Lewis said he feathered the throttle to 90% to keep vettel close after he fixed the mode issue. 

All at 190 mph + through eau rouge !!! Pretty impressive presence of mind

 

 

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17 hours ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

Good race. Still dont understand how vettel goofed up the pass on the restart. He was too close and did not get a big enough run before popping out into the wind. Lots of incredible driving at high speed in close quarters by almost everyone. Lots of red mist in the helmets at force india. Nbc had one full lap in car with vettel that was very cool, the talking heads were silent. Would like to see way more of that!

 

Lewis actually lifted at some point to draw Seb closer. That kept Seb from having momentum later, at the point where he could pull out for a pass. I'm no Lewis fan, but it was a brilliant and very subtle maneuver.

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9 hours ago, billy backstay said:

Don't understand why Botas could not drive with the same compound as Lewis at the end.  Much speculation the Mercedes might buy out Verstappen's contract and replace Valteri with him.

The Mercs are quick but are known to chew up their tires when running in dirty air much more than other cars. Comparing Lewis in clear air to Val in dirty air isn't really fair.

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Nando parked his McHonda again, about 2/3 of the way through the race, when he decided that points weren't possible. He claimed "there was a problem with the engine" to which Honda reported that there was no problem. Nando's claim, probably, referred to the overlying problem with the engine, which is that it's a dog.

My difficulty is this; he is paid a gazillion dollars, most of it by Honda, and he parks the car in protest again. But just a few laps later there is a safety car, and some shuffling of the order. Who knows where he could have ended up? A points finish was unlikely, but not impossible. This is where I lose respect for the guy. There's a dozen or so qualified drivers itching to drive an F1 car that would do so for 1/4 of the money he makes.

There's no doubt he is a great driver - one of the best on the grid. But he is such a crybaby sometimes. Jenson never complained about the crappy Honda like that, and would never park his car in protest.

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16 hours ago, Nice! said:

Nando parked his McHonda again, about 2/3 of the way through the race, when he decided that points weren't possible. He claimed "there was a problem with the engine" to which Honda reported that there was no problem. Nando's claim, probably, referred to the overlying problem with the engine, which is that it's a dog.

My difficulty is this; he is paid a gazillion dollars, most of it by Honda, and he parks the car in protest again. But just a few laps later there is a safety car, and some shuffling of the order. Who knows where he could have ended up? A points finish was unlikely, but not impossible. This is where I lose respect for the guy. There's a dozen or so qualified drivers itching to drive an F1 car that would do so for 1/4 of the money he makes.

There's no doubt he is a great driver - one of the best on the grid. But he is such a crybaby sometimes. Jenson never complained about the crappy Honda like that, and would never park his car in protest.

Not sure there wasn't a problem.  He qualified well for the most part and was pretty quick.  On lap one he picked up three spots and spent a couple of laps there in seventh but then started getting passed by a lot of cars.  Before long he was back in 14th/15th and unable to compete.  He was stymied in qualifying by a car that was too smart for its own good and didn't realize he had already passed a corner already and shut down the power on him.  

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22 hours ago, Nice! said:

The Mercs are quick but are known to chew up their tires when running in dirty air much more than other cars. Comparing Lewis in clear air to Val in dirty air isn't really fair.

That makes sense, but Seb running softer compound, of course, didn't seem to be bothered much at all, by dirty air.....

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Sainz: F1 drivers risk looking like idiots with Monza slipstreaming

Carlos Sainz Jr believes there is a risk of Formula 1 drivers looking like "idiots" if teams attempt slipstreaming tactics during this weekend's Italian Grand Prix.

The combination of Monza's long straights plus the high drag produced by F1's 2017 cars means time could be gained if team-mates provide each other with a tow in qualifying.

McLaren employed that tactic at Spa when Stoffel Vandoorne - who was due to start the Belgian Grand Prix from the back of the grid - assisted Fernando Alonso in the team's attempts to get through to Q3.

Alonso, who could incur penalties at Monza this weekend, suggested he could return the favour to his team-mate in Italian Grand Prix qualifying this weekend.

But Toro Rosso driver Sainz said McLaren's slipstreaming strategy in Belgium constituted a "special situation", and was skeptical about how widespread that tactic would be among other teams at Monza.

"It is something that can be a bit of a curveball sometimes if you don't do it perfectly," said Sainz during an event for Toro Rosso sponsor Acronis ahead of the Italian GP.

"I think McLaren was a very special situation, because one of the drivers was taking a massive penalty, and he was going to start last.

"So they really went for it because it made sense.

"For others, you can either be a hero or an idiot if you don't do it properly. So it is something very, very tricky to put together."

Toro Rosso conceded that the recent Spa round and visit to Monza were likely to cause it problems, but Sainz's team-mate Daniil Kvyat said he had not given up on a good result.

"It's not an easy track for us here. It's totally straightline [speed dependent] here," he said.

"I like the track but we are not the fastest in a straight line, so it is probably about finding the right compromise in downforce and how fast you can go in the corners or a straight line.

"We can still fight for good positions here if you get everything right on strategy."

Kvyat added he felt engine supplier Renault had not made as much developmental progress this year compared to Mercedes and Ferrari.

"This year's Renault has been quite OK in the beginning, but to be honest there is some lack of development compared to Mercedes and Ferrari," he said.

"If we are honest, there is still something missing.

"I think they will always keep working and if they find something, they will find something quite big. But it hasn't happened so far

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/131536/monza-tow-tactics-carry-idiot-risk--sainz

 

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On 8/29/2017 at 2:32 PM, billy backstay said:

That makes sense, but Seb running softer compound, of course, didn't seem to be bothered much at all, by dirty air.....

You sure about that?  Seb got to inside of a second on Ham and then immediately faded back. 

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The last few minutes of Q3 were as exciting as any race finish!!  Lewis new world record of 69 Poles and teenaged Lance Stroll on front row next to Hamilton.

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

The last few minutes of Q3 were as exciting as any race finish!!  Lewis new world record of 69 Poles and teenaged Lance Stroll on front row next to Hamilton.

It was a rain delayed qualy so the real shame is that most people had tuned out before THE BEST Q3 EVAH!

Penalties hit the grid hard, but Hamilton put in probably the best qualifying lap since Senna in Monaco, yes it was that good.

Monza is a power circuit, and it was obvious Mercedes had a better backup plan to surprise oil burning regs than Ferrari.  The championship from now on is Hamilton's to lose, which he did in the first 2/3rds of the season but don't worry, we'll coax him across the line.

 

And Lance Stroll, the best performing unpaid driver on the grid, first Canadian on the front row in 19 years.  Yeah it's been two decades since Jack Newtown won a race, if you didn't feel old before, now you do.

 

Hamilton & Bottas will have to work hard not to make it a 1-2 finish tomorrow...or every finish for the rest of the season.

 

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On 08/23/2017 at 11:42 PM, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

I have to say that I am beginning to see some sparks of the 90s before the split with the racing in indycar. A few more big names like alonso and maybe massa and the money will improve. They have to fix the full course caution lottery.  Too many multi car teams can engineer a win by sacrificing a rookie or whatever. Fucks the whole show up.

The problem is a certain family in Indiana.  They fucked up open wheel racing in the 90's, and they're still fucking it up today.

Indycar is a joke, and will continue to be a joke until their Gulfstream crashes in an "accident".

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1 hour ago, Dilligaf0220 said:

It was a rain delayed qualy so the real shame is that most people had tuned out before THE BEST Q3 EVAH!

Penalties hit the grid hard, but Hamilton put in probably the best qualifying lap since Senna in Monaco, yes it was that good.

Monza is a power circuit, and it was obvious Mercedes had a better backup plan to surprise oil burning regs than Ferrari.  The championship from now on is Hamilton's to lose, which he did in the first 2/3rds of the season but don't worry, we'll coax him across the line.

 

And Lance Stroll, the best performing unpaid driver on the grid, first Canadian on the front row in 19 years.  Yeah it's been two decades since Jack Newtown won a race, if you didn't feel old before, now you do.

 

Hamilton & Bottas will have to work hard not to make it a 1-2 finish tomorrow...or every finish for the rest of the season.

 

That was really fun to watch. 

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First couple of Laps were fun.

Mercs turned down the wick early

great drive by Danny Ric

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I'm not a big believer in witchcraft, well until you start looking at the season that Alonso, Verstappen & Palmer have had.

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RBR surprisingly quick and Ferrari surprisingly slow for Monza. Agree the Mercs were in loft and Coast mode pretty quickly after the start. 

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8 hours ago, Dilligaf0220 said:

I'm not a big believer in witchcraft, well until you start looking at the season that Alonso, Verstappen & Palmer have had.

Verstappen's season is all him. What a joke. He hit three cars today.  It's not a reliability issue, it's a durability issue. You hit so many cars, your car is going to break.

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agreed. great race by ricciardo.

and max is guilty for most of his problems.

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I missed the first half of the race but it looked like a pretty easy 1-2 for merc. great drive by dr! up 15 places or something like that on a fast track. well done.

kimi is back to his usual self. once the ink it dry he just cruises. disappointing, but not really unexpected.

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I actually enjoyed watching the Indy cars at Watkins Glen also; just can't watch the oval tracks....

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this year the Glen was better than Monza. Ferrari have lost something in the mix lately.

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On ‎09‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 0:26 PM, derelicte said:

oil, apparently 

:D

Funny, but probably true.

WTF is up with MacLaren? Time to poop or get off the pot with this whole switch-to-Renault talk.

Prediction: if they keep Honda and Alonso leaves, the Honda will turn out to be great next year and a beast in 2019.

Prediction 2: if MacLaren and Alonso leave Honda, it will turn out to be great next year, and a beast in the Red Bull in 2019.

All speculation, yes. I'm just going by Alonso's history of decisions on where to hang his helmet.

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Sainz to Renault

Looking increasingly like Mclaren with be using Renault next year. 

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5 hours ago, vibroman said:

It finally official

McLaren to switch to Renault engines next year

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclaren-honda-end-engine-partnership-952183/

 

It still says "sources close to the deal", so it's not official yet. But it seems from the widespread reporting that all the deals are done. The only question mark remaining relates to when Sainz makes the switch over to Renault - this season or beginning of next.

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Read somewhere that TR want to keep him for the rest of the year.

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32 minutes ago, vibroman said:

Heard somewhere that TR want to keep him for the rest of the year.

Heard the same thing.  Something about TR seeing his presence as adding points in the constructor's  championship this year that mean $$$ at the end of the season.  They are in 6th, 15 points behind Williams and only 5 ahead of Haas.  Complicated payout formula from FOM but each place in the mid pack earns roughly $10M so moving up to 5th earns  $10M more.  Falling to 7th (behind Haas) will cost them about $10M in 2018 revenue.    

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The sliding scale of money distribution in F1 is ridiculous. If I was the benevolent dictator of such things, I would make it work this way:

  • remove Ferrari's $100 million bonus for being Ferrari and add that to the overall prize pool
  • scale the prize money between first and last place such that last place gets 75% of what first place gets
  • sit back and enjoy the plethora of new teams applying to participate in F1

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1 hour ago, Nice! said:

The sliding scale of money distribution in F1 is ridiculous. If I was the benevolent dictator of such things, I would make it work this way:

  • remove Ferrari's $100 million bonus for being Ferrari and add that to the overall prize pool
  • scale the prize money between first and last place such that last place gets 75% of what first place gets
  • sit back and enjoy the plethora of new teams applying to participate in F1

Of course, Ferrari's singular authority to veto rules changes and limiting team representation on the Strategy Group to the top 6 teams ensures that will not happen. The rich will continue to hoard the gold. 

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9 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Of course, Ferrari's singular authority to veto rules changes and limiting team representation on the Strategy Group to the top 6 teams ensures that will not happen. The rich will continue to hoard the gold. 

Well to continue my benevolent dictator roll, I'd disallow all teams from participating in the Strategy Group. Global F1 strategy should not be determined by those who have self interest. And of course, the Ferrari veto would go too.

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12 hours ago, 42 South said:

The F1 rumour mill is now suggesting Red Bull will be sold to Porsche in 2021 with the obvious outcome of having a Porsche engine

http://www.planetf1.com/news/porsche-red-bull-rumours-gain-momentum/

 

Maybe sooner than that since they may be out of engines at the end of next year! Looks like renault pulling their plug at the end of 2018.

 

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1 hour ago, vibroman said:

Maybe sooner than that since they may be out of engines at the end of next year! Looks like renault pulling their plug at the end of 2018.

 

Cite?  Haven't heard that but it will surely mix things up. 

 

Edit.  I see.  Pulling the plug on RBR as an engine customer. That is going to cause Liberty to have a heart attack.  If RBR can't buy a competitive engine and Merc, Ferrari and Renault offer current spec engines only to teams they don't fear, it is "anti-competitive." and could get the Euro courts involved in a big way. 

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Kind of makes sense if Honda get their shit together then the senior team will want a piece of the action. if not then off to stuttgart we go

 

 

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4 minutes ago, vibroman said:

Kind of makes sense if Honda get their shit together then the senior team will want a piece of the action. if not then off to stuttgart we go

 

 

Obviously, STR is RBR's test case for Honda as they want control of an engine manufacturer similar to their old "works" arrangement with Renault. 

I do think that constructors managing the competition through what and who they supply as customer engines is one of the biggest issues in F-1 today.  Typical F-1 "Rich get Richer" but the field continues to shrink and even Gene Haas, who has done really well for a new team, is openly questioning the competitiveness and value of being in F-1.  Hard to understand why Sauber is still there and Haas is a businessman.  If he doesn't see increased machine tool sales in new markets, I'd say he's gone in 3 years.  Williams and McLaren are perpetually out of money and SFI is only "rags to riches" story over-performing their budget but you have to wonder with .  The "pinnacle of Racing" is 2 teams who effectively conspire to shut out the rest and have pretty clear number 1 drivers so it's a 2 person race with little chance of other teams winning. 

I think Liberty will have their hands full when the Concorde Agreement expires in 2020. 

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Remember all those times when RB management trash-talked Renault a few years back? This is payback. Now they're stuck with either the Honda, or selling the team to Porsche.

That said, with Alonso's career-decision history, maybe the Honda becomes a beast by 2019 and propels RB and TR to #1 and #2 on the grid.

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28 minutes ago, Nice! said:

Remember all those times when RB management trash-talked Renault a few years back? This is payback. Now they're stuck with either the Honda, or selling the team to Porsche.

That said, with Alonso's career-decision history, maybe the Honda becomes a beast by 2019 and propels RB and TR to #1 and #2 on the grid.

28 teams have dropped out of F-1 since 1990.  This isn't about RBR trash talking Renault.  It's about the ability of anybody but Merc or Ferrari and possibly Renault (if they can build a car that works) to compete going forward.  Renault has just decided to try to hobble the only non engine manufacturer to win a constructor's championship in the last decade.  Cost and availability of Power Units is a determining factor in competitiveness in F-1. Given the difficulties and cost of developing a competitive power unit, we are seeing the front of the grid not only dominated by, but controlled and managed by 2 teams today with Renault wanting to join that club.  As long as you engine supplier can give you a second rate engine or cut the cord, you aren't in control of your own destiny. 

Will it be F1 when 6 cars total line up on the grid?  Unless Liberty does something to enhance competition, you can see it going there.  Much as we malign IndyCar, they put 30 something cars on the grid at every race and it is seldom a parade.  If they would only get rid of the damn oval tracks!

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With Bernie gone and Ross Brawn who is a pretty good technical and political operator near the head of the org there may be light at the end of the tunnel.

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On 13/09/2017 at 6:35 PM, Nice! said:

The sliding scale of money distribution in F1 is ridiculous. If I was the benevolent dictator of such things, I would make it work this way:

  • remove Ferrari's $100 million bonus for being Ferrari and add that to the overall prize pool
  • scale the prize money between first and last place such that last place gets 75% of what first place gets
  • sit back and enjoy the plethora of new teams applying to participate in F1

^^^this!

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Mercedes qualifying 5th and 6th?

That first corner is going to be very interesting, I wonder how many cars  Verstappen will take out.

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8 hours ago, captnjoe said:

Hate when I'm right.  Good news is it doesn't happen often.

I'd argue that today Max was the meat is a reckless Ferrari sandwich. Hate to be in the next Ferrari team meeting. Wtf was Seb thinking?

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Makes a change for Max to get taken out instead of being at fault.  I predict many more incidents with Vettel. They plainly can't stand each other. Same goes for Hamilton, but he's quick enough to be a safe distance from Seb most of the time.

Meanwhile Danny Ricciardo keeps piling up good points. Max is fast, but Dan is just as fast and a lot smarter.

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45 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

I'd argue that today Max was the meat is a reckless Ferrari sandwich. Hate to be in the next Ferrari team meeting. Wtf was Seb thinking?

Possible that he didn't see Kimi on the other side? That's the only way I can see that making any sense. 

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Could be that Seb tried to force Max up, not knowing Kimi was there and Kimi was coming down on Max, not knowing Seb was there, the only one who could realize what was happening was Max, but letting off the throttle is not an option for him.  They all lose.

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Possible that he didn't see Kimi on the other side? That's the only way I can see that making any sense. 

That's the only explanation that makes any sense.  didnt look like Max had any way out once Seb turned in. 

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NBCSports, I HATE you so fucking much! according to the guide on both the systems I use (I have Comcast AND DirectTV) the race replay was to be aired at 8:30PM (PDT), when I tuned in I got, THE FUCKING PODIUM!

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All I can say is whoever started the deal at the start where the pole sitter goes totally off line to pinch off other cars who possibly got a better start should be shot. I hope vettel ruined his chance at the title. What a dick. Turned a possible ferrari 1, 2 into something else. What an idiot.

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1 hour ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

All I can say is whoever started the deal at the start where the pole sitter goes totally off line to pinch off other cars who possibly got a better start should be shot. 

It's called a Schumacher start. Once he got away with it, every front-row car tries it.

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It is really great to see things fall into place at the start.  Max was correct when he said that the  tactics used by Seb and Kimi were totally reckless.  Way to go Lewis!

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14 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

I'd argue that today Max was the meat is a reckless Ferrari sandwich. Hate to be in the next Ferrari team meeting. Wtf was Seb thinking?

That's how I saw it, and other than that, it was the most boring race I can remember ever.  Ferrari is pretty much fucked now, regarding Constructors points...

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what a total f-up by ferrari all around but I'm not the least bit surprised there wasn't any further action taken by stewards.

lewis kept his cool and motored to a pretty easy win. man alonso can't catch a break. it could have been a good night for mac. 

I ended up watching the univision broadcast. even though I can only understand about 10% of it, the coverage is still miles better than nbc. those guys are total ass clowns.

 

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3 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

Ferrari is pretty much fucked now, regarding Constructors points...

I don't think ferrari ever had a chance of wcc. kimi is just too unreliable. until they get two solid podium placing drivers, they aren't going to win it.

 

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