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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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what is it?

25 posts in this topic

what-is-it-1-4.jpg


As for what it is doing, well that looks obvious. But what is it?

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Perfectly level (the mast) with the horizon?

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Freak Rocket - Foiling R-Class owned by Hamish Hall Smith

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Video here:

 

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props for trying.

I know I'm very critical for a first test sail...

looks very slow for the wind they had

windward heel won't work with their setup

 

but who am I the say... I've never foiled, I'm just a guy behind a computer...

at least they are out there trying!

good on them...

 

great to sea the smile on their face when they foiled downwind!

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Something he who shall not be named knows more about how to make sail with its uPtIp foils..

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R Class boats have been foiling well for years now. The boat above looks like a neat experiment.....

 

 

 

 

 

315hlrs.jpg

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steve and toni are actully really fast upwind.

Downwind somehow not so much,

or is that just the perspective?

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I'm struggling to understand the benefit of twin front foils (surely two vertical foils = twice the drag as one), unless the plan is to lift the windward one to gain righting moment. However, looks like a fantastically finished boat and respect is due.

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Nose diver, diving...or "doved!"

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Looks like a boat with a balance problem...

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props for trying.

I know I'm very critical for a first test sail...

looks very slow for the wind they had

windward heel won't work with their setup

 

but who am I the say... I've never foiled, I'm just a guy behind a computer...

at least they are out there trying!

good on them...

 

great to sea the smile on their face when they foiled downwind!

 

Yes, things are slow at the moment, a more consistent breeze would have allowed us to bow-down and get moving but the puff was unforgiving that day... The other issue is the rudder, a modified ex-moth rudder which is a bit small - Currently making it bigger and hopefully we'll be able to get more speed once the ass lifts better.

 

Still early days, but there's potential, and that's very important at this stage... !

 

 

I'm struggling to understand the benefit of twin front foils (surely two vertical foils = twice the drag as one), unless the plan is to lift the windward one to gain righting moment. However, looks like a fantastically finished boat and respect is due.

 

Yes - the eventual goal is to run the windward foil up, we're currently running in "trip-pod" mode to get used to everything.

 

foiler.weebly.com is the log of the entire build, for those who are interested to see.

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Freak Rocket - Foiling R-Class owned by Hamish Hall Smith

 

nice pull yo.

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Great stuff. I wouldn't change to much on it now, learn to sail that beast first (you'll learn ;)

Im seeing you want to lift the boat out of the water by lifting the bow up, which is a logical reaction. A better approach could be to go faster (more time on the water will help) -> more speed -> more lift from foils -> liftoff! (ex-mothie here ;)

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Guy's please cease any further discussion on the subject otherwise he who shall not be named will launch into another tirade and you (or me) will be told YoUr'E WrONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Freak Rocket - Foiling R-Class owned by Hamish Hall Smith

 

nice pull yo.

 

What do I win? A spa holiday for two and a candlelit dinner?

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This is work in progress:

1. I see lots of excess weight- the crew.

2. Not much bow...A-cats have long ones...even the S2 and newer toys have some effective bow length.

3. Consequence of 1 & 2 - Rudder loses lift easily.

 

John Ilett of Perth had a similar result problem back in the early foiling Moth designs-- whenever he added 2 bow outboard foils to the first foiling Moths: reaching was ok, tacking not bad, but jibing meant capsizing every time the bow lift went away. Consequence for Moths- singlehanding, single foil, rudder moved aft on a support.

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Very cool. To me this is exactly what yachting is all about.

 

I can see the beauty of raising that windward foil but jesus that would be dicey.

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Great stuff. I wouldn't change to much on it now, learn to sail that beast first (you'll learn ;)

Im seeing you want to lift the boat out of the water by lifting the bow up, which is a logical reaction. A better approach could be to go faster (more time on the water will help) -> more speed -> more lift from foils -> liftoff! (ex-mothie here ;)

 

In that sail we had plenty of AOA and speed for liftoff at times, the issue was losing breeze or stalling out the front foils before the rudder kicked in... (as you could see when the nose picked up) When we flew we were going dead downwind, which means the head of the sails were probably forcing the nose down enough to allow the rudder to work, but at the end of the day I had to increase the size of the rudder wing. You're right though, boat handling should be key from now on. We're trying for more consistent breeze for more pace on, and winding lift out of the front for a more gradual liftoff.

 

This is work in progress:

1. I see lots of excess weight- the crew.

2. Not much bow...A-cats have long ones...even the S2 and newer toys have some effective bow length.

3. Consequence of 1 & 2 - Rudder loses lift easily.

 

John Ilett of Perth had a similar result problem back in the early foiling Moth designs-- whenever he added 2 bow outboard foils to the first foiling Moths: reaching was ok, tacking not bad, but jibing meant capsizing every time the bow lift went away. Consequence for Moths- singlehanding, single foil, rudder moved aft on a support.

 

Class rules mean that's as long as the bow can be, minimum crew 2 etc.. We approached the design as a flying boat, so the bow shouldn't matter if the foils work, but that's the fun part and we're doing lots of swimming!

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wow major flash backs to watching Dave Lugg working up the foils on his i14 back in 2001. Aside from ease of construction what is the logic behind the external dagger board cases? They look pretty draggy when wet.

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It's designed to deliver a foil platform as opposed to a floating platform, eg. the cases are great for ease of trim, reducing skin loading and interchanging foil trim/bearing systems without grinding holes in the hull (as I expected the first foil system to be a bit amateurist (which it was)).

 

I sort of wanted something that made more sense in the air than in the water, so hopefully once we get set up the floating aspect will be less of an issue. Sailrocket similarly dragged a bit of water before takeoff.

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Most excellent build.

 

The big issue with twin main foils as I see it is induced drag at takeoff. You really want maximum span there. With two foils you get two more tip vortices than needed, and much more drag when you can least afford it.

 

The strut drag is significant, but with two struts the main foil can be so much higher aspect that it outweighs the loss from the struts, and the struts can be much smaller also. I suspect we may see twin strut moths at some point with the Clive system if the fairing drag can be worked out.

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