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troll99

build plans of a modern racing catamaran (14-18ft)

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hey!

 

Doing Google search, i stumbled on F14 build kit like this

 

http://farevela.net/2014/04/23/f14-cat-fai-si-ispira-classe/

 

Are there build plans you'd like to build ? I was thinking of modern shape, piercing wave etc. I have to build in plywood & epoxy. Use aluminium at first before replacing with carbon. Keeping the build on low budget.

 

Modern A class cats look nice but often are sold as complete.

 

Cat-F-14-construction.png

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The story about the Stealth Aus was originally reported in catsailingnews.com you might be able to contact the editor(Martin) to track these guys down. I'm not sure whether plans are available* or not but you can ,at least, get an idea of cost.
*Be sure to click on "comments" where you'll find that plans are(were?) available.
Report sent by Robbie Lovig:
"Just writing regarding a boat myself and Barry Marmion have been developing over the last few months. Basically its a plywood catamaran with an A Class rig running L/V foils and T-foil rudders. Barry built the boat and foils/moulds in his carport!

On the budget of a semi-retired builders income!
The toughest thing we've found is the amount of gear you break with the loads being generated.

I'm really impressed with this project primarily due to the lack of funding and how effective our trial/error method is working.

You guys probably have plenty of people trying to show you what they are upto with foiling, the big difference with this is the lack of funding behind the project.

We are maintaining stable flight off the breeze now and are skimming/flying upwind.
Will keep giving you running updates."


Cheers
Robbie Lovig.

------------------------------------
Barry Marmion on the project: "... Stealth Aus, concept I developed with my son Brad who designed the hulls. I did not have a big budget so I built the 15' 6" hulls out of ply in my carport. I Glued 3 broken sections of A class carbon mast together and rigged it with a 2nd hand cut down A class main to end up with a boat costing $ 4,500.

After watching C class foiling Brad and I decided to design and retro fit foils to the Stealth. To construct the moulds we had 8 plugs (4 for each foil) made up using a router machine at RMIT, and then took moulds of the pugs. The 1st set foils I laid up had 10 layers of 200 gram carbon and a expanding foam core, they weren't up to the stresses and broke under the keel. The 2nd foils of consisted of 15 layers of C F with end grain cedar core They are still good a bit heavy (5 kg) each.

The epoxy glue for the foils was sponsored and supplied by Marine Timbers and the rest of the materials for moulds and foils cost around $ 2,500.
It has not been an easy development process due to the fact that Stealth was not built for foiling.. Breakages include ! set of foils, 4 rudder blades, 5 rudder boxes, had to reinforce the main bulkheads,

My thanks to Robbee who tirelessly developed the tuning of Stealth Aus "
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I think the best bang for the buck in home built sailing projects right now is to find a good used A, something like a Flyer, in the $5-$6k neighborhood, then retrofit with foils or just sail as is.

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I know its cheaper to buy an used cat. Though I want learn basics of ply/epoxy and composite builds. Its cheaper at the long end. I might design something myself once I'm done with the basics.

 

DougLord, thats something I was looking for. Building a cat of garbage piles :)

 

Scarecrow, I won't mind building a 12ft cat. Thanks for sharing the free build plans. I'm studying yours atm.

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I know its cheaper to buy an used cat. Though I want learn basics of ply/epoxy and composite builds. Its cheaper at the long end. I might design something myself once I'm done with the basics.

 

DougLord, thats something I was looking for. Building a cat of garbage piles :)

 

Scarecrow, I won't mind building a 12ft cat. Thanks for sharing the free build plans. I'm studying yours atm.

 

Really?!

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Richard Woods has 14' and 16' beachcat designs with a pretty reasonable build history and performance. They won't keep up with an A-Cat but if you want to learn the process they would be a good place to start. There are also some plans floating around for home building an A-Cat and more than one have been built to good results. But my suggestion is that building an A as your first build is going to be a very difficult process.

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http://www.catsailingnews.com/2014/12/building-stealth-plywodd-foiler-by.html

 

The Blade F16 also has plans. I would contact Exploder regarding foils; you'll have a hard time matching their cost with custom built foils!

 

I was suggesting the A as there is a fair bit of construction involved, not the whole boat, but still a good amount, and you end up with a well designed, well built high performance machine. I've looked at building a platform before and the hulls are usually the cheapest part; its the rest of the bits that get expensive quickly, some deals to be had for sure but you may be surprised what retail cost is on things like mast and beams. A good bet there is to find an old boat (like an older A) and re-use the mast, crossbeams, rudder system and foils, all of which generally add up to more than the cost of the used boat to begin with!!

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New prices for just the beams, foils, mast, and a sail for an A-Cat will total more than what a decent used boat can be picked up for. And frankly building any of those without seriously advanced facilities and experience is just nuts.

 

Obviously you don't have to build an A-Cat but when decent use boats are in the $6-8k range building anything gets hard to justify.

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Ok!

 

I would do anything to be able to build something even if it costs more than a finished version. I already have an offshore keel-boat and I thought id have a cat just for fun. Foremost of all, i want learn basics of building incl. carbon fiber. In long term, its cheaper to do yourself.

 

I give up the idea building A-cat as the first time build. The F-14 looks very interesting (the one in my first post). Ply-sheets look less stretched there.

 

At beginning, id go with straight rudders and daggerboards (prob it wont need plug/moulds then), 5m mast (or whatever i find in the market of used dinghy/cat), make own sails...Beams and mast in aluminium. Gradually upgrade to carbon when possible. Itd take a while to learn CF and find people who have plugs/moulds for fancy T rudders and J\C foils.

 

all this is to keep at low budget.

 

Im UK based. What masts of popular dinghy/cats are worth to look for? Id hope to find some stuffs of broken ones/garbage piles.

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. A good bet there is to find an old boat (like an older A) and re-use the mast, crossbeams, rudder system and foils, all of which generally add up to more than the cost of the used boat to begin with!!

 

v good idea!

 

my suggestion is that building an A as your first build is going to be a very difficult process.

Agreed. I think im very close to buy plans of the F14.

 

 

I know its cheaper to buy an used cat. Though I want learn basics of ply/epoxy and composite builds. Its cheaper at the long end. I might design something myself once I'm done with the basics.

 

DougLord, thats something I was looking for. Building a cat of garbage piles :)

 

Scarecrow, I won't mind building a 12ft cat. Thanks for sharing the free build plans. I'm studying yours atm.

 

Really?!

 

 

a joke. I got jealous that he got a nice mast to repair. $4.5k budget is very low for a such machine.

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From a fellow builder who has a done a few along the way, I wouldn't go the plywood route even if the plans dictate plywood, I'm not against plywood but just from experience, once learnt, working with composites is easier and faster. Look at the LR method, it gives great light weight boats in a very simplistic method that have a value once built. If your chosen plans dictate single skin then simply get yourself a few sheets of 2400x 1200mm 10mm foam and put one skin on the inside and get on with it. No you don't need carbon beams, Ali is very nearly as good and a fraction of the cost, for what your requirements are Ali tube is ideal, remember your boat is not a state of the art racing machine, more a learning development boat and will that ever so slight weight difference and tensile strength make that much difference in reality. Its about the same weight value as 2 pints of beer. A good many F16's use Ali without a problem.

 

There are endless small cats sitting about that you can pick up for a few hundred pounds on Ebay or Apollo Duck which will have all the expensive items like hardware, masts, the difficult bits to make like rudders and dagger boards and the sails etc, I probably have enough sails if you PM me to get an F16 equivalent ( which is what you should be building in my view as they are a stunningly fun boat that's not too big for 1 but big enough for Dad and a rugrat ) underway and if you phone Datchet Sailing Club they have about 5 or 6 14 - 16 ft cats sitting in the grass that will never ever be sailed again, make them an offer and I bet you would be surprised how good a boat you could get without even building a boat.

 

From experience, lower your ideals a little on the first boat, get on the water quickly and you will enjoy the whole boat building experience more.

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From a fellow builder who has a done a few along the way, I wouldn't go the plywood route even if the plans dictate plywood, I'm not against plywood but just from experience, once learnt, working with composites is easier and faster. Look at the LR method, it gives great light weight boats in a very simplistic method that have a value once built. If your chosen plans dictate single skin then simply get yourself a few sheets of 2400x 1200mm 10mm foam and put one skin on the inside and get on with it. No you don't need carbon beams, Ali is very nearly as good and a fraction of the cost, for what your requirements are Ali tube is ideal, remember your boat is not a state of the art racing machine, more a learning development boat and will that ever so slight weight difference and tensile strength make that much difference in reality. Its about the same weight value as 2 pints of beer. A good many F16's use Ali without a problem.

 

There are endless small cats sitting about that you can pick up for a few hundred pounds on Ebay or Apollo Duck which will have all the expensive items like hardware, masts, the difficult bits to make like rudders and dagger boards and the sails etc, I probably have enough sails if you PM me to get an F16 equivalent ( which is what you should be building in my view as they are a stunningly fun boat that's not too big for 1 but big enough for Dad and a rugrat ) underway and if you phone Datchet Sailing Club they have about 5 or 6 14 - 16 ft cats sitting in the grass that will never ever be sailed again, make them an offer and I bet you would be surprised how good a boat you could get without even building a boat.

 

From experience, lower your ideals a little on the first boat, get on the water quickly and you will enjoy the whole boat building experience more.

Good post!

 

You made me reconsider my plans. It's prob better find an used f16 and build new hulls later if I want keep lowering the weight (you mentioned skin & foam).

 

I was worried that it might be hard sell the plywood cat when I won't need. Carbon builds are sought nowadays, I assume.

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No most F16's are still glass and you are going to pay premium rates as they are few and far between on the sales front as even the oldest 2001 boat is still competitive. You sometimes see the UK built Stealth up for sale at low prices as they were built a bit under whelmingly but the hull shape and T foil rudders are still as good as you can get in the class, Apollo Duck has them on occasionally. Whats your budget ?

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I agree its better to start with something used. F16's are good boats. Maybe a used A cat is cheaper. Please evaluate all your options before committing; building a boat from scratch is a massive undertaking. Doing so from existing molds is still a big undertaking, and no offense, but I'm not reading a lot of engineering expertise in your posts, and you've mentioned this is meant to be a foray into composites for you, which I wholeheartedly agree with! Building quality foils without quality tooling is nigh impossible these days, there are other methods but to achieve quality requires a fair bit of skill when used hot wire cut foam cores. Starting from scratch with composites = repairing existing boats IMO. Without a tutor, you will very likely end up spending twice has much as a good used boat, for a boat that weighs more and has an outdated hull shape. Again, reading from your posts, you want a small catamaran to go play on, you have time to build but are new to composites and beachcats in general. Hence my advice on the A cat, buy a straightboard boat or curved board DNA, sail it for a year, then install new trunks and Z boards for foiling fun. You'll learn more about boat design and construction with some active participation in the A fleet than almost any other..

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Disagree Sam, the A's even as "older boats " now fetch a premium price, far better to buy a Dart 16 or such like for just a few hundred pound, have fun crashing it up the beach and into things as invariably the beginner cat helm does, join a club where there are other Darts and learn from others. Whilst all this is enjoyment factor is going on you will have to fettle and rebuild the Dart as invariably age dictates a bit of maintenance and that's where the learning skills really take place with composites.

 

There is also another class in the UK which are very lightweight and the fore runner to the A, the Unicorn, almost as quick as a sea hugger, tough, typically built in ply by the thousands by home builders in the 70's and you regularly see them siting around forlornly in the boat parks. It was my first cat and loved every minute of it until a 75mph wind tore the ground anchors out and rolled it across the boat park until only splinters were left. Which led to me getting a Stealth and then onto building Bitsa.http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=252629&page=1

 

Once you have a good understanding of whats actually needed and you have then worked out what your actual requirements in a boat are, then get building.

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Wayne,

 

Different market forces in GB than in the U.S. Heap of older A's on the market now ripe for conversion!! Otherwise yep, you've got the Hobie 16 and Prindle 16 and maybe some Nacra 5.8's and Prindle 18's as cheap bang around boats that usually need a l little love from rotting on the beach/in the yard/dinghy park somewhere. All depends on the OP's needs. My point with the A is that class is full of builders/tinkerers/engineers to help pave the way for an aspiring builder.

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