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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
ladymarmalade

Radio controlled sailing

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What does everyone think a fun progression of boats would be. Victoria to CR914, to ? and so on. Or is the Victoria to close to the CR914?

Choosing a boat is like religion - each has its acolytes.

 

I would suggest a better combo would be Dragonforce 65 to DragonFlite 95.

 

But if you want to race against the best RC sailors, then IOM is the answer.

 

John

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^ Sweet.

Rod put me onto a real model-builder guy, forget his name, who then upgraded the servos and rigged mine nicely, CF and all. Raced in the fleet at Green Lake a few times but sail it at home these days, against a neighbor. Fun boat in a breeze.

I am not leaving much of the model kit standard. I did use the stock mast, I rigged lighter single spreaders and used stainless steel fishing leader wire for the standing rig. I bought really small model turnbuckles to tension the rigging. I also fabricated a longer backstay crane. I installed a bulkhead under the mast for support. A Canadian group in the Okanagen posted a really good step by step instruction on their ideas to upgrade these boats:

http://www.okanaganmodelsailboat.org

I also found a group in Bakersfield that published some good info and another person in Oregon.

 

Do you belong to the Seattle yahoo group? Seattle MYC.

Very cool. I did belong to SMYC for a time before moving farther north onto a Snohomish County lake.

 

^^ My choice to go the Victoria route was based on what was being locally raced the most at the time. Transportability was an issue for me too, much as I admire the larger boats.

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This is an old video that started out much longer. As it is, you can see a little of a few of the boats I used to produce 17 years ago:

 

 

 

This short vid was made a couple of years ago showing the Trapeze Power Ballast System on the D4Z cat. The system s quick and moves up to three pounds of lead side to side and fore and aft. A problem with the rig(main) and with me has delayed further videos. The boat is going to sail with wand based foils when it finally flies.

Sailing with movable ballast is close to the most fun you can have with an RC sailboat whether mono or multihull-having fingertip control of stability is a rush:

 

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My old Fairwind has been gathering dust for years, but I think I'll take it out again this season. Fun to read about other RC sail boats.

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Yesterday in the GWN - pre-start for RC Laser Fleet 17 at the Dinghy Dock Pub - there were seven boats, two were sailing in the foreground out of the picture.

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So in the world of model yachting is the concept of O E design racing.... A la dragon force/flyte not considered cool?

 

Varies by country. There was no significant one design racing anywhere during the free sailing era. When the American Model Yachting Association was formed to promote radio sailing as a successor to the old Model Yacht Racing Association of America (whose members, amazingly, were often hostile to expansion of the sport), one design classes rose in popularity and now dominate in numbers. In the UK, the Model Yachting Association appears to have carried the old free-sailing development classes (A, M, and 10R) over to radio more smoothly than in the US and there was no significant impetus to one design activity until Mark Dicks and his crew came up with the Dragon Force as a boat that could be sailed as one design or as an RG65.

 

Cheers,

 

Earl

(Historian, US Vintage Model Yacht Group and Secretary, RG65 USA Class Owners Association)

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One design appeals as it means racing is not about how much money you can throw into the water.

 

But nothing beats the grace of a well sorted Marblehead.

 

The question I really want to ask is... Is it better for my sailing to invest in a well sorted df65, or save my money and spend it on an iom, or even go the whole hog and get into the arms race that is Marbleheads

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So the DF 65 world has now seen all the teasers about the version 6.... No more competitive than previous but finally improved the quality and the family semblance with the 95 is complete.

Highlights include... An A+ rig. A new rudder servo and mylar sails straight out of the box.... Who is going to update their v 1 to 5?

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I scratch built this IOM (a Goth XP) a couple of winters ago, after sailing a Victoria and a T37. I got tired of sitting on the dock while the boat had all the fun so I got a San Juan 21 which didn't really cost a whole lot more than the toy boats.

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Price was the reason I didn't go for IOM with my model build, it seems like they are kind of expensive to make competitive.

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Here are some of the build photos. The tooling was designed in 3D so that the laser cut parts would fit the 3D printed mould perfectly. The hull is going to be three layers of 92 gram carbon plain weave set in West System Epoxy. The deck will also be carbon with a thin 1mm mahogany veneer (shown being trial fitted below). I plan to do a trial hull in glass before laying up the carbon to make sure it comes out properly. The structure and servo compartment shown is 1.5 mm birch faced plywood which will be spraycoated to make it waterproof. The structure alone weighs 80 grams. The keel for this boat actually belongs to a 1m model sailboat but I have re-purposed it for my design.

 

I've also done some calculations for my standing rigging and mast to make them as light as possible. The rig, which is two part 7mm pultruded carbon should weigh approximately 25 grams total.

 

Thanks for sharing.

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Price was the reason I didn't go for IOM with my model build, it seems like they are kind of expensive to make competitive.

The only thing that makes the IOM expensive is the labour for hull construction, fit and finish. Since you are doing those yourself I would expect a self built IOM to cost only proportionately more than your 36-600.

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IOM's are for the compulsive tinkerer hobbyist. RC Lasers are for the folks who just want to sail radio-controlled boats, have fun and go drinking afterward.

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My original plan was to build the boat more inexpensively out of glass with a simpler design, so it probably wouldn't have been competitive as an IOM, but it can race my current boat, hence the choice to build a 36-600. After winning a small cash prize last year and making some money over the summer I decided to change the build to carbon so probably could have afforded to go for IOM after all.

 

I definitely fall into the "tinkerer" category.

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I can't tell-does your wing have a slot?

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I built my IOM out of glass over balsa planking and it needs 300g of corrector weights to get it to the class minimum. Carbon or Kevlar isn't legal for an IOM hull so it's not an arm's race like other classes. I did use carbon reinforcements on my keel though. You do need an expensive winch and 3 rigs of you're going to be serious about it though.

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The wing didn't have a slot, there was a clear film between the leading and trailing element. The proportions of the wing and sections were lifted off of the Oracle AC72 wing. The details of that boat are in an old thread on CA.

 

I've heard good things on RCGroups about that particular land yacht. It looks like fun.

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Looks good-did you do the wrap? If you did how easy was it-or hard?

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Bat1_ireland-1024x685.jpg

The wing didn't have a slot, there was a clear film between the leading and trailing element. The proportions of the wing and sections were lifted off of the Oracle AC72 wing. The details of that boat are in an old thread on CA.

I've heard good things on RCGroups about that particular land yacht. It looks like fun.

 

It is fun and I can launch it from my wheelchair. I've had a few crowd around to watch. It's a bit light when the breeze is up and gusty. You can do brodies.

As a sailor there is some rigging changes I'd like to make. I was thinking of a solid vang above the boom to the mast. when you ease the sheet it just twists too much.
The sail is just a flat plastic pos. As a former sail maker, I'd like to make something with battens and luff curve to fashion a miniature RAF.

 

For $120 w/controller it does what it is supposed to................go fast.

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Bat1_ireland-1024x685.jpg

The wing didn't have a slot, there was a clear film between the leading and trailing element. The proportions of the wing and sections were lifted off of the Oracle AC72 wing. The details of that boat are in an old thread on CA.

 

I've heard good things on RCGroups about that particular land yacht. It looks like fun.

 

It is fun and I can launch it from my wheelchair. I've had a few crowd around to watch. It's a bit light when the breeze is up and gusty. You can do brodies.

 

As a sailor there is some rigging changes I'd like to make. I was thinking of a solid vang above the boom to the mast. when you ease the sheet it just twists too much.

The sail is just a flat plastic pos. As a former sail maker, I'd like to make something with battens and luff curve to fashion a miniature RAF.

 

For $120 w/controller it does what it is supposed to................go fast.

 

That's pretty cool. The beach reminds me of 90 mile beach in New Zealand.

 

I had a good afternoon today after uni working on model boats. I fixed the keel on Windfall, my 36-600 and tested and trial fitted the electronics for the new boat. I also finished putting the first six layers of fairing compound on the mould and have started to sand it. There's still a lot of work to go before it reaches a mirror finish.

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If I did not have enough going on trying to finish three Victorias and a Northwind 36, I took on another large project.

 

This week a East Coast 12 became available. The owner had not finished and hardley started working on it. So he wanted to give it to someone who wanted it. So I volunteered to take it off his hands for the very good price of FREE.

 

These boats look like a classic 12 meter and are 59 inches long with a 72 inch mast. This one is a late 90's Dumas. Many of the parts were not aquired: mast, rigging, controls. And other we with it: hull, deck, ballast, rudder, some unused dacron sails, wooden booms and bronze rigging parts. The best part is the books and assembly instructions! This will be a long term project. I should have my head examined!

 

 

 

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That's a pretty boat.

 

I've got a Northwind 36 which I bought from a guy crewing a superyacht for $20. she sails pretty well. One of my flatmates just finished her 36-600. We're planning to race this weekend.

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That's a pretty boat.

I've got a Northwind 36 which I bought from a guy crewing a superyacht for $20. she sails pretty well. One of my flatmates just finished her 36-600. We're planning to race this weekend.

This is my Northwind 36. I upgraded the rigging to wire and turnbuckles. Replaced the plastic booms with aluminum arrow shafts and added some structure inside. I am close to finishing this. Working on the servos. Built my own box for the electronics.

 

I don't live all that far from Bob P or Anacortes. If you have time during your internship and want to sail models, let me know. There is a group that race Victorias in Seattle too.

 

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That's a pretty boat.

I've got a Northwind 36 which I bought from a guy crewing a superyacht for $20. she sails pretty well. One of my flatmates just finished her 36-600. We're planning to race this weekend.

This is my Northwind 36. I upgraded the rigging to wire and turnbuckles. Replaced the plastic booms with aluminum arrow shafts and added some structure inside. I am close to finishing this. Working on the servos. Built my own box for the electronics.

 

I don't live all that far from Bob P or Anacortes. If you have time during your internship and want to sail models, let me know. There is a group that race Victorias in Seattle too.

 

attachicon.gif0318172039_resized.jpg

 

 

I modded Windfall, my 36-600 a bit as well. She got new sails and carbon main and jib booms. I'm planning to do new standing rigging soon. For $20 she was a good deal although a little rough around the edges in the finish department.

 

Unfortunately I'm not sure I can carry her on international flights.

 

The boat on the right is mine and the nicer one on the left is my flatmate's new boat. Both are 36-600s.

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If I did not have enough going on trying to finish three Victorias and a Northwind 36, I took on another large project.

This week a East Coast 12 became available. The owner had not finished and hardley started working on it. So he wanted to give it to someone who wanted it. So I volunteered to take it off his hands for the very good price of FREE.

These boats look like a classic 12 meter and are 59 inches long with a 72 inch mast. This one is a late 90's Dumas. Many of the parts were not aquired: mast, rigging, controls. And other we with it: hull, deck, ballast, rudder, some unused dacron sails, wooden booms and bronze rigging parts. The best part is the books and assembly instructions! This will be a long term project. I should have my head examined!

l]

Most expensive boat I ever had was a cheap ec12 hull..... rigs sails, winch, lead, ect,,,, adds up quick.

 

Fyi. the Dumas heritage is not a hull that is able to be registered with the class. So if you are just tinkering around the pond you are fine. But if you want to race. It won't be a legal hull... ec12.org

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Sailing the new v6 df 65.... It's good, but no quicker than the v5... We now have a regular group of 7 or 8 racing and we are just about to start evening racing mid week... Not bad from nobody 3nmomths ago

 

 

That's the beauty of the little dragon force. Ownership is easy.

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Cool, I was helping with race committee last weekend at our club for the German nationals, 52 boats from 6 country's and next year we will host the worlds.

https://www.radiosailing.org/about/news/9-irsa/149-2018-world-championship-marblehead-tenrater-has-been-awarded-to-germany

17796769_968383083295938_20233907734712017861867_10211219247689507_920001460339517799073_10211219247449501_192697139537317634634_10211219248209520_9688611585990

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This weekend is the Great RC Ocean Race - the most challenging RC sailboat race on the planet! It runs around Protection Island, with the start and finish line at the Dinghy Dock Pub. There are two divisions: RC Laser and "run what you brung" which usually includes IOM's, Marbleheads, wing cats and others. The RC Laser fleet is competing for the Graham Millington Mug, and everyone else competes for the Mini Barn Door trophy.

 

http://nanaimorclaser.ca/wordpress/?page_id=15

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For those interested. The Maryland model yacht club will have a demo booth in ego alley at the Annapolis spring boat show this weekend.

 

Fwiw I'll be there with my Carbon rg65 for at least part of day....

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The a+ rig is a major addition to the range IMG_20170418_232616.png

What country are you based in? The name of boat suggests nz?

 

 

I believe the name of the TP 52 that sails out of Opua is the same. Could be wrong though.

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We have about 20 CR-914's at Lake Lanier, GA. They race every Friday - 10:00am, although only 5-6 show up regularly.

 

 

-Mike

We had a similar problem at our club. Getting the boats out of the garage, into the car, setting them up again: hassle. We set up a place where the boats could be stored at the club, with the idea that they could be used by other interested members if the owner didn't show up him or herself. A volunteer makes sure all the batteries are charged up and the boats all ready to go. We have 29 Independence RC boats in the fleet and about half of them are now involved with this program. Fleet racing kickoff is today!

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The a+ rig is a major addition to the range IMG_20170418_232616.png

What country are you based in? The name of boat suggests nz?

I am in the UK.. But I am am expat kiwi yes

 

Kia Kaha means be strong...

 

My first 65 was Kaha Tarakona... Or strong dragon.... Dragon force

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Bought and put together a T-37 a few years ago.  Been a lot of fun sailing her.  In seattle they even had a RC pond.  Seattle Yc hosts the Nationals every year.  Competition is great, I could stand between two gold medal winners I grew up sailing with and talk as we raced against each other.

Now that I;m in Hawaii, ready to try the local river sailing with the other RC boats, a mixed fleet.  But did have a blast playing in the breakers just off of the beach in Hilo Bay.

These T-37s are great little boats and are pretty cheap.  For under $400 you get the whole boat and racing kit.  Simple, but fun.

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The U.S. Vintage Model Yacht Group will be holding their National Regatta July 14-16 at Sandy Pond in Nashua, NH. If you like beautiful wooden models this is the place to be. Notice of race, directions to pond, etc.,  at www.usvmyg.org

Cheers,

Earl

 

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Excellent coverage and the French commentator is cute.

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49 minutes ago, SloopJohnB said:

I race a IOM because I had to give up racing rideons due to a neck injury, no more looking up.B)

Bummer - I hear you . All my sailing friends have the same problems, knees, shoulders, l4,l5 disc in lower back and s5 in neck.  It sucks getting old but it beats the alternative :0

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22 hours ago, Loose Cannon said:

Bummer - I hear you . All my sailing friends have the same problems, knees, shoulders, l4,l5 disc in lower back and s5 in neck.  It sucks getting old but it beats the alternative :0

True... Thank God for the df65... Death seems so.. Umm... Deadly 

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On 3/19/2017 at 6:59 AM, Marcjsmith said:

Most expensive boat I ever had was a cheap ec12 hull..... rigs sails, winch, lead, ect,,,, adds up quick.

 

Fyi. the Dumas heritage is not a hull that is able to be registered with the class. So if you are just tinkering around the pond you are fine. But if you want to race. It won't be a legal hull... ec12.org

I was able to register my Dumas boat with the EC12 class. The previous owner registered the boat with the class almost 20 years ago even though he never built it. I transversed ownership to me and have a spot in the roster and a sail number. Most say that the Dumas is not competitive.

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On 1/24/2017 at 2:10 PM, GBR562 said:

I was thinking about getting the DF65 and then I saw the DF95 and now I'm torn......

I'm going with this.

1 meter (or in this case .95 meter) is sort of a magical LOA for RC boats. They go through wind chop so much better than smaller sizes. There are small sizes that sail well, but 1 meter seems to be a big factor.

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40 minutes ago, random said:

The DF95 is a very different animal to the IOM (1m).

In cost, certainly.

In what other ways? I mean, being a development class, the IOM is obviously going to be more refined. But what else?

I've never sailed either. The only RC I've sailed was a Northwind 36.

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8 hours ago, Great White said:

I was able to register my Dumas boat with the EC12 class. The previous owner registered the boat with the class almost 20 years ago even though he never built it. I transversed ownership to me and have a spot in the roster and a sail number. Most say that the Dumas is not competitive.

That’s great news about being able to register.  enjoy the boat.  There are tons of resources out there for the ec12.  I don’t know about how competive the hull is. But a fun class and great guys and gals that sail the boats most are very willing to help out.

agree on the size thing  one meter sails much differently than the smaller boats.  One closed waters the smaller hulls do ok, but one meter is real nice, still easily transportable not too heavy and able to be shipped fairly easily 

Actively Sail the IOM (own two) and sailed the df95(only for a few minutes). I would love to sail each boat back to back in similar conditions.  But I think the comparisons would be moot.     Both boats would be quick,  the  IOM is just about the F1 of rc sailboat racing, and the DF95 would be Indy car.  Soling would be NASCAR.   Same but different

A strict one design is great, but if some5ing happens to the manufacturer, the class dies.  the Odom went dead for a while, and seawind did as well.  Getting hulls for soling and Victoria’s are difficult.    Not saying that getting IOM hulls is any easier...but at least there are multiple options, including building it yourself.

if you really want To get into rc racing, find a club thats close and sail what they sail.  Other wise you are setting yourself up to travel.  Which isn’t bad,  it can be costly, but not as costly as big  boat sailing   

 

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On 2017-01-25 at 10:55 AM, blunted said:

post-1634-0-54137400-1485359658_thumb.jpg

 

My RC cruiser, IOM sail on USOM carbon rig on 48" long mahogany and carbon platform.

That’s just beautiful. 

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I have nothing of value to add here,  other than I hope this becomes a long-running thread. I’d get one of these to futz around with in a heartbeat if we weren’t perpetually shelling everything we own to not to drown like hoarders in a tiny urban condo. Damn fun, I bet. 

Carry on.

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Shameless plug, because I know there are quite a few PNW sailors on here:

Nanaimo RC Laser Fleet 17

We get 10-14 one design boats on a start line every other weekend.  15+ races a day, then we go eat wings and drink beer.  The boats are more or less bulletproof - my servos and receiver are now 10 years old and still kicking.  

I am happy to leave the big boat at the dock in the winter now, and I still get to sail without wear and tear on expensive sails and getting cold and wet.  

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8 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

In cost, certainly.

In what other ways? I mean, being a development class, the IOM is obviously going to be more refined. But what else?

I've never sailed either. The only RC I've sailed was a Northwind 36.

The 95 wieghs 2kg the IOM 4kg.  Big difference in how they go through the water and handle chop.  Big difference in how they feel to sail, the heavier boat feels better.  But it is not really worth comparing because the main difference is about one-design Vs not.

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13 hours ago, Peanut Butter said:

I have nothing of value to add here,  other than I hope this becomes a long-running thread. I’d get one of these to futz around with in a heartbeat if we weren’t perpetually shelling everything we own to not to drown like hoarders in a tiny urban condo. Damn fun, I bet. 

Carry on.

there is an active club in toronto   sailed with them on many occasions...  honestly an RC boat will only take up as much as you allow it.  a derigged boat will fit under most beds an dif you have a rig box it can stand up in the corner of the closet.

 club in toronto sails soling, victoria and dragon force.  and I'm sure you culd find a used one locally so you don't have to worry about building one.  the soling is pretty involved from a build point of view , but the vic and dragonf force pretty easy...  at the very least,  some guy will have a couple boats and are usually more than willing to hand the controls over...

http://www.metromarine.org/about-us-2/about-us/divisions/sail-division/

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Thanks for the info. I’ve looked into that club a number of times, as I can throw a stone into the lake from my balcony.

Its not the space it takes up. It’s the misery I’d get non stop from the missus for bringing it home in the first place.

Parking garage isn’t an option as everything gets stolen down there. It’s a sea of stripped bicycles.

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You all realize of course that you are in on the ground floor of the future of the America's Cup after  Auckland goes bankrupt on the latest fantasy.    Its called autonomous sailing and the future is murder.

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55 minutes ago, dyslexic dog said:

I'm getting a DF95 for Christmas. Can anyone recommend what transmitter I should get to go with it?

Doesn't matter as long as you get the receiver to match it.  A Futaba would be worth as much as your boat so get a cheaper one, Spektrum or Turnigy.  I thought you could get all the radio gear with the boat as an option.

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Dragon Sailing North America who sell the DF95 also sells the FlySky 6i transmitter and receiver for $60. That is a good choice.

https://radiosailing.net/collections/radios-receivers

Hobbyking sells several inexpensive radios.

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/radios-servos/radios/complete-systems.html

Make sure you select a MODE 2 radio (not Mode 1 which is for helicopters). Get a programmable one - $60 or more and not a cheap $25 one. You only need two channels, but as radios are mass produced for the model aircraft market, it is better value to get a six channel radio that a ror 4 channel.

Get a stick style transmitter and not a pistol grip style. (designed fro RC cars).

John

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Go down t the local RC club, see what they sail and buy one of those.

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On 11/21/2017 at 3:30 PM, dyslexic dog said:

I'm getting a DF95 for Christmas. Can anyone recommend what transmitter I should get to go with it?

You want a transmitter which allows you to add a curve to the sheet input (usually called a throttle curve) and exponential to the rudder control. The FlySky is the best bang for the buck and provides telemetry data so you can keep track of the status of the batteries and the boat.

 

 

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1 minute ago, random said:

Go down t the local RC club, see what they sail and buy one of those.

For local sailing, I get two choices: Soling One Meter and IOM. I'm not ready to commit the money or time to IOM and the Soling is just too lame of a design. Basically, ANY RC boat that is a scaled-down anything will be sub-standard. Looking for local (Anacortes, WA) DragonFlite 95 (or something of similar cost and performance) fleet.

I guess I should just build up a Soling one meter. One-design is one-design--doesn't matter if it's slow relative to other classes.

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22 minutes ago, Somebody Else said:

For local sailing, I get two choices: Soling One Meter and IOM. I'm not ready to commit the money or time to IOM and the Soling is just too lame of a design. Basically, ANY RC boat that is a scaled-down anything will be sub-standard. Looking for local (Anacortes, WA) DragonFlite 95 (or something of similar cost and performance) fleet.

I guess I should just build up a Soling one meter. One-design is one-design--doesn't matter if it's slow relative to other classes.

Comparison of classes is a total waste of sailing time.  I have an IOM and really enjoy it, but I only bought it because that's what the local club sails.  There are also Lasers which are total pigs to sail but I have been thinking about getting one for the OD competition.  DF95s are also making an appearance and there is a strong fleet of DF65s a little further away.

The good thing about the OD inexpensive boats is that from day one you can have the same boat as the top guys, unlike the IOMs where entry level is a second-hand boat probably of an older slower design.  If you want to lash out and buy a new IOM you can wait up to a year to get it.

For me it's about the sport of sailing, not boats.

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