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What's happened to the C&C 30?

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See the problem from my perspective is that while all those boats you cited are certainly cheap, a boat like the C&C 30 is exponentially more fun to race.

 

Define "more fun to race" - I haven't raced on one, but I have sailed on one and there were VERY few staysails or bloopers. No kite peels, no headsail changes, etc. Boring. Might as well drive a powerboat around.

 

I think it's more fun to race against your friends and peers, week in and week out in the local scene, no matter what kind of boat you're on.

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See the problem from my perspective is that while all those boats you cited are certainly cheap, a boat like the C&C 30 is exponentially more fun to race.

 

Define "more fun to race" - I haven't raced on one, but I have sailed on one and there were VERY few staysails or bloopers. No kite peels, no headsail changes, etc. Boring. Might as well drive a powerboat around.

 

I think it's more fun to race against your friends and peers, week in and week out in the local scene, no matter what kind of boat you're on.

+1

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With the exception of having to stay local, how would racing any modern boat OD not necessarily be racing your friends and peers week in week out, unless you made it a point not to be friendly with the people you're racing against. What you're describing isn't somehow strictly the provenance of decades old boats. By more fun to race I meant more responsive, more dynamic, more comfortable, and yes, faster.

 

Also, with the exception of bloopers (and let's be honest, beyond the humor factor, good riddance), every maneuver you described is still a thing that happens whilst racing on any modern boat. if you didn't do those things it's because you or the people you were out sailing with decided they didn't want to, and if that made you think you were just driving a powerboat around then it sounds like you were doing it wrong. Fun is what you make of it and it seems you weren't really trying, should we blame the boat for that?

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With the exception of having to stay local, how would racing any modern boat OD not necessarily be racing your friends and peers week in week out, unless you made it a point not to be friendly with the people you're racing against. What you're describing isn't somehow strictly the provenance of decades old boats.

 

Also, with the exception of bloopers (and let's be honest, beyond the humor factor, good riddance), every maneuver you described is still a thing that happens whilst racing on any modern boat. if you didn't do those things it's because you or the people you were out sailing with decided they didn't want to, and if that made you think you were just driving a powerboat around then it sounds like you were doing it wrong. Fun is what you make of it and it seems you weren't really trying, should we blame the boat for that?

 

It may not be the provenance of decades old boats, but I don't think it can be done with modern strictly-race boats. I also don't think that a travel fleet reduces the constraints on peoples' time, it only adds to it.

 

Yes, bloopers was tongue in cheek - however your follow up comment is accurate and I will take it under advisement.

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us7070: Yes and no. All a OD class needs to be good is for *the boats to be the same*. You could make a better OD fleet out of Catalina 30s (or almost any other Catalina) than any "race boat" ever built. There are a lot of them and they are everywhere.

The people in 2017 getting into big OD boats seem to want BOTH identical boats AND the latest fastest carbon fantastic speed demon. I can see why too, unless they race off on their own away from other boats, they want to win boat for boat too or at least not be slower than comparable boats. Island Packets are thus not likely to ever be a hot OD class :rolleyes:

 

Bingo. Future of sailing is cheap OD. Catalina 30, Catalina 27, Cal 25, SJ24, Pearson 30, T-10, J30. Anything that is cheap, available, has a head, and imposed material and purchase frequency restrictions. Pick one and critical mass in the same locale.

 

I have had this discussion many times. Focusing on the purchase price of a boat is not really the most relevant issue - it's running costs. The monthly/annual costs will exceed the price of a boat pretty quickly. The cost to race a 30 foot $10,000 boat is the same as a 30 foot $90,000 boat - assuming both boats are raced competitively. Slip fees, insurance, sails (to a lesser degree), bottom paint, haul outs, race entry fees, bar bills, etc . . . are pretty much the same. The $10,000 boat can even be more expensive when repair/maintenance problems come up. Also, a person that focuses on trying to buy a cheap boat probably probably doesn't have the finances to race any where but locally - which is not a bad thing but not if you want to build an OD class. If boat purchase price was the only factor, then why didn't the Flying Tiger build into a large OD class?

 

If you want to get a good/great OD class going, takes more than cheap boat acquisition costs. Good OD requires good platform, boat availability, great class management, regatta schedule, and some person with time and money to push the class forward and inspire the class. J Boats has this down to a science. Their products are pricey for what you get; however, you get good OD racing and resale value.

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us7070: Yes and no. All a OD class needs to be good is for *the boats to be the same*. You could make a better OD fleet out of Catalina 30s (or almost any other Catalina) than any "race boat" ever built. There are a lot of them and they are everywhere.

The people in 2017 getting into big OD boats seem to want BOTH identical boats AND the latest fastest carbon fantastic speed demon. I can see why too, unless they race off on their own away from other boats, they want to win boat for boat too or at least not be slower than comparable boats. Island Packets are thus not likely to ever be a hot OD class :rolleyes:

 

Bingo. Future of sailing is cheap OD. Catalina 30, Catalina 27, Cal 25, SJ24, Pearson 30, T-10, J30. Anything that is cheap, available, has a head, and imposed material and purchase frequency restrictions. Pick one and critical mass in the same locale.

 

I have had this discussion many times. Focusing on the purchase price of a boat is not really the most relevant issue - it's running costs. The monthly/annual costs will exceed the price of a boat pretty quickly. The cost to race a 30 foot $10,000 boat is the same as a 30 foot $90,000 boat - assuming both boats are raced competitively. Slip fees, insurance, sails (to a lesser degree), bottom paint, haul outs, race entry fees, bar bills, etc . . . are pretty much the same. The $10,000 boat can even be more expensive when repair/maintenance problems come up. Also, a person that focuses on trying to buy a cheap boat probably probably doesn't have the finances to race any where but locally - which is not a bad thing but not if you want to build an OD class. If boat purchase price was the only factor, then why didn't the Flying Tiger build into a large OD class?

 

If you want to get a good/great OD class going, takes more than cheap boat acquisition costs. Good OD requires good platform, boat availability, great class management, regatta schedule, and some person with time and money to push the class forward and inspire the class. J Boats has this down to a science. Their products are pricey for what you get; however, you get good OD racing and resale value.

 

IMO It's about getting people in the door at the ground level. Yes, Learn'd men such as yourself realize the running costs are the same. But for a new club-racer (I mean person, not boat), spending $90K on your first boat is a big leap. Buy the $10K boat, then decide whether you are the kind of person who wants to up to the expensive boat. But if your options right now are to buy a $10K boat and race PHRF, that's not as fun and tougher for purposes of retention. That base-level OD class can help with new faces as well as retention through cameraderie. There are some cities that already have this, other places where it could use more development... and I agree 100% that a good OD takes boat availability (hence why I cited plentiful boats), great class management and a champion is crucial. With regard to a good platform, I think the racer/cruiser is a good platform for getting someone new in the door as well. Someone moving from cruising or casual sailing is going to be able to mentally justify a racer/cruiser more than a strict racer (especially if there is a GF/Wife involved).

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us7070: Yes and no. All a OD class needs to be good is for *the boats to be the same*. You could make a better OD fleet out of Catalina 30s (or almost any other Catalina) than any "race boat" ever built. There are a lot of them and they are everywhere.

The people in 2017 getting into big OD boats seem to want BOTH identical boats AND the latest fastest carbon fantastic speed demon. I can see why too, unless they race off on their own away from other boats, they want to win boat for boat too or at least not be slower than comparable boats. Island Packets are thus not likely to ever be a hot OD class :rolleyes:

 

Bingo. Future of sailing is cheap OD. Catalina 30, Catalina 27, Cal 25, SJ24, Pearson 30, T-10, J30. Anything that is cheap, available, has a head, and imposed material and purchase frequency restrictions. Pick one and critical mass in the same locale.

 

I have had this discussion many times. Focusing on the purchase price of a boat is not really the most relevant issue - it's running costs. The monthly/annual costs will exceed the price of a boat pretty quickly. The cost to race a 30 foot $10,000 boat is the same as a 30 foot $90,000 boat - assuming both boats are raced competitively. Slip fees, insurance, sails (to a lesser degree), bottom paint, haul outs, race entry fees, bar bills, etc . . . are pretty much the same. The $10,000 boat can even be more expensive when repair/maintenance problems come up. Also, a person that focuses on trying to buy a cheap boat probably probably doesn't have the finances to race any where but locally - which is not a bad thing but not if you want to build an OD class. If boat purchase price was the only factor, then why didn't the Flying Tiger build into a large OD class?

 

If you want to get a good/great OD class going, takes more than cheap boat acquisition costs. Good OD requires good platform, boat availability, great class management, regatta schedule, and some person with time and money to push the class forward and inspire the class. J Boats has this down to a science. Their products are pricey for what you get; however, you get good OD racing and resale value.

 

IMO It's about getting people in the door at the ground level. Yes, Learn'd men such as yourself realize the running costs are the same. But for a new club-racer (I mean person, not boat), spending $90K on your first boat is a big leap. Buy the $10K boat, then decide whether you are the kind of person who wants to up to the expensive boat. But if your options right now are to buy a $10K boat and race PHRF, that's not as fun and tougher for purposes of retention. That base-level OD class can help with new faces as well as retention through cameraderie. There are some cities that already have this, other places where it could use more development... and I agree 100% that a good OD takes boat availability (hence why I cited plentiful boats), great class management and a champion is crucial. With regard to a good platform, I think the racer/cruiser is a good platform for getting someone new in the door as well. Someone moving from cruising or casual sailing is going to be able to mentally justify a racer/cruiser more than a strict racer (especially if there is a GF/Wife involved).

 

Just remember with OD, J70s are like fat girls. Fun to ride, but don't let your friend see you do it.

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For mine, the biggest issue with building and maintaining an OD class is folks tire of being exposed… There is nowhere to hide if you suck. Even if you can build the critical mass to run events, irrespective of the rules (owner driver, pros or no pros…), folks don’t like to just make up the numbers and continuously finish down the pack. Yacht racing is an intellectual exercise, translated into a physical skill, by a group of disparate people, crowded into a confined space… and then put under pressure… (what could possibly go wrong?!). Those that manage to contain and sustain it, go much faster than those that don’t. OD or not. It seems some find easier to drop out (usually suggesting all sorts of nefarious, alternative facts) than look in the mirror, see where the problem really lies and do something about it.

 

The other issue is, there are too many bloody 'OD' boats! Take 30 footers; it seems every other week someone is launching a shiny new one! In my dictatorship, we’d have one designated 30 footer (35 footer, 40 footer…) then every event would turn into a OD race! In the meantime, in my part of the world, if you are brave enough to be exposed to OD, go buy and Etchells…

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us7070: Yes and no. All a OD class needs to be good is for *the boats to be the same*. You could make a better OD fleet out of Catalina 30s (or almost any other Catalina) than any "race boat" ever built. There are a lot of them and they are everywhere.

The people in 2017 getting into big OD boats seem to want BOTH identical boats AND the latest fastest carbon fantastic speed demon. I can see why too, unless they race off on their own away from other boats, they want to win boat for boat too or at least not be slower than comparable boats. Island Packets are thus not likely to ever be a hot OD class :rolleyes:

 

Bingo. Future of sailing is cheap OD. Catalina 30, Catalina 27, Cal 25, SJ24, Pearson 30, T-10, J30. Anything that is cheap, available, has a head, and imposed material and purchase frequency restrictions. Pick one and critical mass in the same locale.

 

I have had this discussion many times. Focusing on the purchase price of a boat is not really the most relevant issue - it's running costs. The monthly/annual costs will exceed the price of a boat pretty quickly. The cost to race a 30 foot $10,000 boat is the same as a 30 foot $90,000 boat - assuming both boats are raced competitively. Slip fees, insurance, sails (to a lesser degree), bottom paint, haul outs, race entry fees, bar bills, etc . . . are pretty much the same. The $10,000 boat can even be more expensive when repair/maintenance problems come up. Also, a person that focuses on trying to buy a cheap boat probably probably doesn't have the finances to race any where but locally - which is not a bad thing but not if you want to build an OD class. If boat purchase price was the only factor, then why didn't the Flying Tiger build into a large OD class?

 

If you want to get a good/great OD class going, takes more than cheap boat acquisition costs. Good OD requires good platform, boat availability, great class management, regatta schedule, and some person with time and money to push the class forward and inspire the class. J Boats has this down to a science. Their products are pricey for what you get; however, you get good OD racing and resale value.

 

IMO It's about getting people in the door at the ground level. Yes, Learn'd men such as yourself realize the running costs are the same. But for a new club-racer (I mean person, not boat), spending $90K on your first boat is a big leap. Buy the $10K boat, then decide whether you are the kind of person who wants to up to the expensive boat. But if your options right now are to buy a $10K boat and race PHRF, that's not as fun and tougher for purposes of retention. That base-level OD class can help with new faces as well as retention through cameraderie. There are some cities that already have this, other places where it could use more development... and I agree 100% that a good OD takes boat availability (hence why I cited plentiful boats), great class management and a champion is crucial. With regard to a good platform, I think the racer/cruiser is a good platform for getting someone new in the door as well. Someone moving from cruising or casual sailing is going to be able to mentally justify a racer/cruiser more than a strict racer (especially if there is a GF/Wife involved).

 

We were talking about building an OD class. Getting people into sailing/racing is an entirely different matter. Mixing the two can have disastrous results - especially if you are talking about 30+ foot boats.

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We were talking about building an OD class. Getting people into sailing/racing is an entirely different matter. Mixing the two can have disastrous results - especially if you are talking about 30+ foot boats.

 

 

And I believe you can build an OD class that can do both.

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From what i have seen, the majority of the people i know with RC's use them solely for racing. It makes me wonder why the hell they don't just buy a raceboat and be done with it - faster, easier for the crew to work on, less shit to ding up in the cabin, etc. But it seems the market wants the "ability" to cruise, despite the fact that they (the people i am referencing) never do. IRC has its comprimise around the 40' mark so i'll sort of give those boats a pass.... Obviously it's not completely cut and dry.

A very big reason is that R/C, C/R are far less demanding to sail thus appeal to a much broader audience

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Im not.. Ive sailed on Themis, Awesome boat. I understand what the guys in the fleet are trying to do, and how they want to spend their money.

 

Stop complaining. If more guys with a large expendable income in other classes help to build the class instead of complaining, racing would be at an awesome level in more fleets.

 

Sure the class could put in a few measures to lower costs, and maybe they should in some aspects, but the person who wants to spend because they earnt their money will, spend their money.

 

A good example is the GP42 change to the Soto 40. Soto's were cheaper and lower spec, No ribs, no containers, sails stay on the yacht an entire event, tighter sail cards etc etc. Didn't work, the guys who wanted to race the cool boat went and raced the cool boat.

 

C&C 30 is the cool boat. Get behind it and start a local fleet with the bunch of 2nd hand boats available, you dont need pro's and Ribs for that.

I am not sure the CC30 is the cool boat. Yes I have sailed it, and it was a fun 30 footer. But, it also has its downfalls such as coming out over weight. Dollar for Dollar, there may be better options. The new G-Force 32 is around the same price point. They don't list weight yet, but it may be the better option. The MC31 could be as well if someone imports one to the states. Best bang for your buck right now in the 30 range is a used Melges 32. Just go ask the ED.

MC31... Serious? better do some research on that one...

 

Melges 32 is limited to W/L. They don't carry safety gear weight very well, cant go upwind in waves or Carry reaching sails with out breaking stuff. Been there, done that. Got the t-Shirt.

 

Is there 10 G-Force 32's sailing on one start line anywhere?

What happened to the mc31? A few showed up in Aus, and I haven't heard a word since

Ill let that one slide through to the keeper.

 

Look at Geelong Festival of sails results in the Super 11 fleet.

An MC31 races in the Sydney Super 30 fleet against Farr 30s, Flying Tigers, Melges 32, HIck 30... Pretty handy bunch of blokes and it has its wind range but with comparative crew, is Flying Tiger/Farr 30 pace in moderate breeze. No where near the Melges 32. I know they made it to meet Cat 2 (because we all dream of long distance offshore races on a flush deck 30 footer...) but how they managed to make a smaller, carbon boat weigh the same as a low tech Flying Tiger is a mystery. If you want to be out in front, buy a used Melges for a third of the cost. Want to mix it with the fleet, buy a Tiger for half that again, or the Farr and then you can even dream of going offshore for days too...

 

Yes it is a bit porky (MC31) they originally said 1750kg which is 10% lighter than a MUMM which can go offshore (albeit 22yr older design) but they tipped the scales at 2100 or something in the end?

 

Built to cat 2 ISO but that's an overnight Brisbane to Gladstone these days. Hardly a long offshore race.

 

& ZZ open Cat would be great but you got park / store it $$$

C&C unfortunately way heavier than designed (by about 800lb) and it seriously impacts its performance (including that nasty habit of really plowing water before finally getting up on the step. It really is not a GP level boat but is certainly also cheaper (while still being $200-250 on the line)

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For mine, the biggest issue with building and maintaining an OD class is folks tire of being exposed… There is nowhere to hide if you suck. Even if you can build the critical mass to run events, irrespective of the rules (owner driver, pros or no pros…), folks don’t like to just make up the numbers and continuously finish down the pack. Yacht racing is an intellectual exercise, translated into a physical skill, by a group of disparate people, crowded into a confined space… and then put under pressure… (what could possibly go wrong?!). Those that manage to contain and sustain it, go much faster than those that don’t. OD or not. It seems some find easier to drop out (usually suggesting all sorts of nefarious, alternative facts) than look in the mirror, see where the problem really lies and do something about it.

 

The other issue is, there are too many bloody 'OD' boats! Take 30 footers; it seems every other week someone is launching a shiny new one! In my dictatorship, we’d have one designated 30 footer (35 footer, 40 footer…) then every event would turn into a OD race! In the meantime, in my part of the world, if you are brave enough to be exposed to OD, go buy and Etchells…

i understand where you are coming from. bring back true amature racing. there are plenty of bigger boats that need pro crews. give us back the fun of the sport at our levels.

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From what i have seen, the majority of the people i know with RC's use them solely for racing. It makes me wonder why the hell they don't just buy a raceboat and be done with it - faster, easier for the crew to work on, less shit to ding up in the cabin, etc. But it seems the market wants the "ability" to cruise, despite the fact that they (the people i am referencing) never do. IRC has its comprimise around the 40' mark so i'll sort of give those boats a pass.... Obviously it's not completely cut and dry.

A very big reason is that R/C, C/R are far less demanding to sail thus appeal to a much broader audience

 

 

valid, but if you want to win you're going to push just as hard in any boat - for the most part. but in a performance boat you wont even be with the pack if you 7/8 ass it.

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From what i have seen, the majority of the people i know with RC's use them solely for racing. It makes me wonder why the hell they don't just buy a raceboat and be done with it - faster, easier for the crew to work on, less shit to ding up in the cabin, etc. But it seems the market wants the "ability" to cruise, despite the fact that they (the people i am referencing) never do. IRC has its comprimise around the 40' mark so i'll sort of give those boats a pass.... Obviously it's not completely cut and dry.

A very big reason is that R/C, C/R are far less demanding to sail thus appeal to a much broader audience

 

 

valid, but if you want to win you're going to push just as hard in any boat - for the most part. but in a performance boat you wont even be with the pack if you 7/8 ass it.

 

You don't have to try to convince me - there are very few C/R that I want to race. But more to the point - there are a fair amount of people racing C/R that would be "exposed" if you put them in a real race boat - and they know it, which is why they race C/R's. Fine for them to do so - not so much for me

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How many women are active crew in the CC 30 class?

 

Sure it's a cool boat, but I have zero interest in spending my time in a class that is designed only for men, and even a subset of men that tends towards, we'll never mind what I think it tends towards, the market seems to have voted with its feet.

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How many women are active crew in the CC 30 class?

 

Sure it's a cool boat, but I have zero interest in spending my time in a class that is designed only for men, and even a subset of men that tends towards, we'll never mind what I think it tends towards, the market seems to have voted with its feet.

 

There are some. Extreme has one every race, and from what I hear, shes pretty awesome. But, just like any other boat, find all the guys, fill the gap with the small girl.

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"Exposed"?

It may be these people do not WANT to be hardcore racers with a single purpose boat. Once you get to the level where anything but 1st is not satisfactory, you either need to be extraordinarily good or be miserable a lot of the time.

Remember back in the day when vastly more boats were out racing, most of them were not anything close to a pure race boat.

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"Exposed"?

It may be these people do not WANT to be hardcore racers with a single purpose boat. Once you get to the level where anything but 1st is not satisfactory, you either need to be extraordinarily good or be miserable a lot of the time.

Remember back in the day when vastly more boats were out racing, most of them were not anything close to a pure race boat.

 

I think hes probably referring to the fact C/R are easier to sail at optimum than full race boats. Just like you may be all find and dandy driving your soccer mom vehicle around a track, but no way could you even drive a GT Race car at nearly its top level. So most people, are "exposed" when they try to switch from C/R to Sport boat.

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Not sure why that is bad. Vastly more people drive a Miata around various tracks than drive F1 cars.

Vastly more people fly C-172s than Pitts Specials.

Maybe it is a tone thing that doesn't translate to text, but it seemed to be "You like your old RC boat because you are too lame to sail a real race boat". Could be wrong on that, but SA does have a theme going that what used to be the majority of most fleets are just obstacles that don't really deserve to be out there. That kind of thing DOES filter down to n00bs who get a feeling they need to stay far away from any kind of racing.

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How many women are active crew in the CC 30 class?

 

Sure it's a cool boat, but I have zero interest in spending my time in a class that is designed only for men, and even a subset of men that tends towards, we'll never mind what I think it tends towards, the market seems to have voted with its feet.

 

I have no idea what the hell you're trying to say here.

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"Exposed"?

It may be these people do not WANT to be hardcore racers with a single purpose boat. Once you get to the level where anything but 1st is not satisfactory, you either need to be extraordinarily good or be miserable a lot of the time.

Remember back in the day when vastly more boats were out racing, most of them were not anything close to a pure race boat.

 

We've been campaigning our boat in an OD class for 4+ decades (estimated ~1000 races) and have been a non-winning boat (2nds and 3rds don't count) under the leadership of 3 generations. We still come back every week twice a week. 1st is the goal, but it is obviously not what keeps us coming back.

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How many women are active crew in the CC 30 class?

 

Sure it's a cool boat, but I have zero interest in spending my time in a class that is designed only for men, and even a subset of men that tends towards, we'll never mind what I think it tends towards, the market seems to have voted with its feet.

There were a few girls on the 30's in key west- we had one- and she's hot to boot- so, yeah... no

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"Exposed"?

It may be these people do not WANT to be hardcore racers with a single purpose boat. Once you get to the level where anything but 1st is not satisfactory, you either need to be extraordinarily good or be miserable a lot of the time.

Remember back in the day when vastly more boats were out racing, most of them were not anything close to a pure race boat.

I think you took my comment the wrong way.

 

What I meant was that there is definitely a difference in the amount of skill and athleticism needed between typical C/R's and flat out race boats and if you take somebody with an average level from a C/R and put them in a pure race boat it will show and they will be far off pace. I meant nothing negative about that - people choose to play at a level they are comfortable with and there are a lot fewer people that can play competitively in pure race boats than typical C/R's - that's all

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Here in the Annapolis area we HAD Alberg 30s, Pearson 30, Cal 25s, and maybe Catalina 27s (???) with a pretty active OD racing scene. AFAIK most of them are not active or on life support now.

J-105s were doing well at one time I think, not sure about now.

(total thread creep, but back in the day racing a C&C 35 in a club race fleet was like a Porsche vs. riding lawn mowers :DB) )

 

 

us7070: Yes and no. All a OD class needs to be good is for *the boats to be the same*. You could make a better OD fleet out of Catalina 30s (or almost any other Catalina) than any "race boat" ever built. There are a lot of them and they are everywhere.

The people in 2017 getting into big OD boats seem to want BOTH identical boats AND the latest fastest carbon fantastic speed demon. I can see why too, unless they race off on their own away from other boats, they want to win boat for boat too or at least not be slower than comparable boats. Island Packets are thus not likely to ever be a hot OD class :rolleyes:

 

Bingo. Future of sailing is cheap OD. Catalina 30, Catalina 27, Cal 25, SJ24, Pearson 30, T-10, J30. Anything that is cheap, available, has a head, and imposed material and purchase frequency restrictions. Pick one and critical mass in the same locale.

 

 

 

As I understand it, the P-30 fleet officially died right around 2009 (right when I discovered sailing, damnit.)

I think the Cal-25 fleet is still alive. I recall seeing race results last year or the year before.

 

I race my cruiser. It's why I suffer and I understand and accept that.

I didn't do it for the wife though. I enjoy my shower and my bunks and I actually do cruise around the Chesapeake... as fast as I can! ;) I enjoy the exploration. Smith Island is a time machine.

 

This'll be my first full season racing the Tartan 33. Wednesday nights and distance races on weekends, mostly singlehanded. I have realistic expectations about what will happen.

I accept that I'll be gutting the boat between cruises. I'm putting a dock box at my slip to ease the hassle.

I even have a buddy with a sister ship to race against.

 

Some of you guys are doing it wrong. Wife 2.0 has asked for advanced sailing lessons for her birthday. :)

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How many women are active crew in the CC 30 class?

 

Sure it's a cool boat, but I have zero interest in spending my time in a class that is designed only for men, and even a subset of men that tends towards, we'll never mind what I think it tends towards, the market seems to have voted with its feet.

I have no idea what the hell you're trying to say here.

First it was a question that seems to have been answered. It was rhetorical because I knew from looking at the entry list for various regattas there are very few women in this class. It's typical of most flush deck type boats, maybe even most big boats. It's really only in the casual recreational fleet that you might see a higher percentage of women. All the Grand Prix boats tend towards exactly what one answer was, mostly male crew, the boats round out the crew with one lighter weight female.

 

These boats all seem to be gathering an overwhelmingly male user base. The post race parties are just about zero fun. I feel sorry for any reasonably attractive woman who races in fleets like this, unless of course they thrive on the attention from all the males at the regatta. Maybe that's a good thing for them, gives them more of a selection. But for me it's long ceased to be an interesting social scene. Many of these guys paid to sail do not seem to suffer from an abundance of social grace. It's just a macho sausage fest and the market seems to have said this class has reached its growth potential.

 

If a bunch of guys want to go the trouble and expense of this type of boat and social scene, good for them. I find Sailing a Laser or 505 pretty damn fun downwind too with a lot less hassle. To each his own.

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The j70 winter series was loaded with hotties-

And- I don't know about you- I race to win races- there's plenty of time to meet women outside of racing-

 

Although... that said...I'm single and racing is mostly why....but that's not the point- the point is, there are lots women sailing od boats, I don't think a 4kt shit box is the answer.

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The j70 winter series was loaded with hotties-

And- I don't know about you- I race to win races- there's plenty of time to meet women outside of racing-

 

Although... that said...I'm single and racing is mostly why....but that's not the point- the point is, there are lots women sailing od boats, I don't think a 4kt shit box is the answer.

A J70 is not a CC30, not even close. I'm sure there's hotties in the 70 class, some in the Melges 24 too. My point of comparison is more dinghy classes than big boats anyway. Dinghies just have a healthier vibe all the way around. 4 kt shitbox one a warm summer night for a beercan is often a target rich environment, plenty of people just having fun on the water.

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How many women are active crew in the CC 30 class?

 

Sure it's a cool boat, but I have zero interest in spending my time in a class that is designed only for men, and even a subset of men that tends towards, we'll never mind what I think it tends towards, the market seems to have voted with its feet.

I have no idea what the hell you're trying to say here.

First it was a question that seems to have been answered. It was rhetorical because I knew from looking at the entry list for various regattas there are very few women in this class. It's typical of most flush deck type boats, maybe even most big boats. It's really only in the casual recreational fleet that you might see a higher percentage of women. All the Grand Prix boats tend towards exactly what one answer was, mostly male crew, the boats round out the crew with one lighter weight female.

 

These boats all seem to be gathering an overwhelmingly male user base. The post race parties are just about zero fun. I feel sorry for any reasonably attractive woman who races in fleets like this, unless of course they thrive on the attention from all the males at the regatta. Maybe that's a good thing for them, gives them more of a selection. But for me it's long ceased to be an interesting social scene. Many of these guys paid to sail do not seem to suffer from an abundance of social grace. It's just a macho sausage fest and the market seems to have said this class has reached its growth potential.

 

If a bunch of guys want to go the trouble and expense of this type of boat and social scene, good for them. I find Sailing a Laser or 505 pretty damn fun downwind too with a lot less hassle. To each his own.

So what you are saying is you have a really hard time getting laid when there are other male sailors around.

Actually no, I just find the social scene at a sausagefest to be something that is not a great deal of fun. The kind of women I hang with have no use for little boys and their games, they dont like the annoyance, so I don't bring them around. If the only thing a class is selling is winning, that's a very narrow target which is proven to not last very long. It's too bad, the CC30 is a cool boat, but they don't seem to be building many more of them. Seems sort of hallow to declare victory if growth is considered getting 10 boats to show up at the same event.

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You're really trying to claim this is a C&C thing huh? Keelboat racing in general is a goddamned sausage fest.

 

I race on a boat that has anywhere between one and three women in the crew out of eight. Looking around, we are way at the right end of the bell curve at any given regatta. You can knock the C&C class for plenty, but trying to decry it as individually male dominated is nuts.

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You're really trying to claim this is a C&C thing huh? Keelboat racing in general is a goddamned sausage fest.

 

I race on a boat that has anywhere between one and three women in the crew out of eight. Looking around, we are way at the right end of the bell curve at any given regatta. You can knock the C&C class for plenty, but trying to decry it as individually male dominated is nuts.

Thank you for making my point, generally.

 

i was wondering today why sports like skiing and snowboarding have a far closer gender balance, and why keelboats as you say are a sausagefest. Would this class be smart to mandate more female crew? Why are keelboats in general sausagefests? Should this class do more to attract females as crew?

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You're really trying to claim this is a C&C thing huh? Keelboat racing in general is a goddamned sausage fest.

 

I race on a boat that has anywhere between one and three women in the crew out of eight. Looking around, we are way at the right end of the bell curve at any given regatta. You can knock the C&C class for plenty, but trying to decry it as individually male dominated is nuts.

Ok, ok, ok, you licke the sausigges. We gette it!

 

:)

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You're really trying to claim this is a C&C thing huh? Keelboat racing in general is a goddamned sausage fest.

 

I race on a boat that has anywhere between one and three women in the crew out of eight. Looking around, we are way at the right end of the bell curve at any given regatta. You can knock the C&C class for plenty, but trying to decry it as individually male dominated is nuts.

Thank you for making my point, generally.

i was wondering today why sports like skiing and snowboarding have a far closer gender balance, and why keelboats as you say are a sausagefest. Would this class be smart to mandate more female crew? Why are keelboats in general sausagefests? Should this class do more to attract females as crew?

Slooowww down there for a second. If 'the type of women you hang out with' don't like it you don't have to be bothered with it.

 

Relegating one class to a sausage fest is unfair.

 

You want 'the type of women you want' get your own seven knot shit box and invite said 'type' girls and their girlfriends out. The less the know about sailing the better. Their role on the boat will be to predominantly touch sunscreen and no lines. Whatever else they touch after you get back to the dock is fair game.

 

Note: This might make you a better singlehander.

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You're really trying to claim this is a C&C thing huh? Keelboat racing in general is a goddamned sausage fest.

 

I race on a boat that has anywhere between one and three women in the crew out of eight. Looking around, we are way at the right end of the bell curve at any given regatta. You can knock the C&C class for plenty, but trying to decry it as individually male dominated is nuts.

Bingo-

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You're really trying to claim this is a C&C thing huh? Keelboat racing in general is a goddamned sausage fest.

 

I race on a boat that has anywhere between one and three women in the crew out of eight. Looking around, we are way at the right end of the bell curve at any given regatta. You can knock the C&C class for plenty, but trying to decry it as individually male dominated is nuts.

Thank you for making my point, generally.

 

i was wondering today why sports like skiing and snowboarding have a far closer gender balance, and why keelboats as you say are a sausagefest. Would this class be smart to mandate more female crew? Why are keelboats in general sausagefests? Should this class do more to attract females as crew?

The terms "target rich", sausage fest, etc aren't helping the cause...

 

Perhaps referring to them as sailors first and foremost would be a start.

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You're really trying to claim this is a C&C thing huh? Keelboat racing in general is a goddamned sausage fest.

 

I race on a boat that has anywhere between one and three women in the crew out of eight. Looking around, we are way at the right end of the bell curve at any given regatta. You can knock the C&C class for plenty, but trying to decry it as individually male dominated is nuts.

Thank you for making my point, generally.

 

i was wondering today why sports like skiing and snowboarding have a far closer gender balance, and why keelboats as you say are a sausagefest. Would this class be smart to mandate more female crew? Why are keelboats in general sausagefests? Should this class do more to attract females as crew?

The terms "target rich", sausage fest, etc aren't helping the cause...

 

Perhaps referring to them as sailors first and foremost would be a start.

Well it IS a sausagefest. What on earth is wrong with calling it target rich? Do you think females don't talk that way too? Newsflash, they do.

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You're really trying to claim this is a C&C thing huh? Keelboat racing in general is a goddamned sausage fest.

 

I race on a boat that has anywhere between one and three women in the crew out of eight. Looking around, we are way at the right end of the bell curve at any given regatta. You can knock the C&C class for plenty, but trying to decry it as individually male dominated is nuts.

Thank you for making my point, generally.

i was wondering today why sports like skiing and snowboarding have a far closer gender balance, and why keelboats as you say are a sausagefest. Would this class be smart to mandate more female crew? Why are keelboats in general sausagefests? Should this class do more to attract females as crew?

Slooowww down there for a second. If 'the type of women you hang out with' don't like it you don't have to be bothered with it.

 

Relegating one class to a sausage fest is unfair.

 

You want 'the type of women you want' get your own seven knot shit box and invite said 'type' girls and their girlfriends out. The less the know about sailing the better. Their role on the boat will be to predominantly touch sunscreen and no lines. Whatever else they touch after you get back to the dock is fair game.

 

Note: This might make you a better singlehander.

Again, thanks for making my point. You are right, it's not just the CC30 that's a sausagefest, it's far too many classes. The whole sport is far too male centric. Look at this place. How many women participate in these forums? Is there even one women reading this thread who then offers an opinion about why they like or don't like this boat? If you know any women who have an interest in this type of boat how about asking them to come over here so we can understand their perspective. The women I know can't be bothered with this place.

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You're really trying to claim this is a C&C thing huh? Keelboat racing in general is a goddamned sausage fest.

 

I race on a boat that has anywhere between one and three women in the crew out of eight. Looking around, we are way at the right end of the bell curve at any given regatta. You can knock the C&C class for plenty, but trying to decry it as individually male dominated is nuts.

Thank you for making my point, generally.

 

i was wondering today why sports like skiing and snowboarding have a far closer gender balance, and why keelboats as you say are a sausagefest. Would this class be smart to mandate more female crew? Why are keelboats in general sausagefests? Should this class do more to attract females as crew?

The terms "target rich", sausage fest, etc aren't helping the cause...

 

Perhaps referring to them as sailors first and foremost would be a start.

Well it IS a sausagefest. What on earth is wrong with calling it target rich? Do you think females don't talk that way too? Newsflash, they do.

And... the women you hang out with don't have time for boys and their toys....

 

Funny, that.

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You're really trying to claim this is a C&C thing huh? Keelboat racing in general is a goddamned sausage fest.

 

I race on a boat that has anywhere between one and three women in the crew out of eight. Looking around, we are way at the right end of the bell curve at any given regatta. You can knock the C&C class for plenty, but trying to decry it as individually male dominated is nuts.

Thank you for making my point, generally.

i was wondering today why sports like skiing and snowboarding have a far closer gender balance, and why keelboats as you say are a sausagefest. Would this class be smart to mandate more female crew? Why are keelboats in general sausagefests? Should this class do more to attract females as crew?

Slooowww down there for a second. If 'the type of women you hang out with' don't like it you don't have to be bothered with it.

Relegating one class to a sausage fest is unfair.

You want 'the type of women you want' get your own seven knot shit box and invite said 'type' girls and their girlfriends out. The less the know about sailing the better. Their role on the boat will be to predominantly touch sunscreen and no lines. Whatever else they touch after you get back to the dock is fair game.

Note: This might make you a better singlehander.

Again, thanks for making my point. You are right, it's not just the CC30 that's a sausagefest, it's far too many classes. The whole sport is far too male centric. Look at this place. How many women participate in these forums? Is there even one women reading this thread who then offers an opinion about why they like or don't like this boat? If you know any women who have an interest in this type of boat how about asking them to come over here so we can understand their perspective. The women I know can't be bothered with this place.

Don't thank someone when you think they may or may not have made your point for you.

 

You obviously misunderstood my point.

 

My point is...get your own pussy on your own time however you want it.

 

Buy your own boat and race it however you can within the limits of what's available.

 

If those class limits don't work for you and you still want to equate pussy with sailing, don't tell others how to equate pussy with sailing.

 

This is somewhat sacred ground.

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You're really trying to claim this is a C&C thing huh? Keelboat racing in general is a goddamned sausage fest.

 

I race on a boat that has anywhere between one and three women in the crew out of eight. Looking around, we are way at the right end of the bell curve at any given regatta. You can knock the C&C class for plenty, but trying to decry it as individually male dominated is nuts.

Thank you for making my point, generally.

i was wondering today why sports like skiing and snowboarding have a far closer gender balance, and why keelboats as you say are a sausagefest. Would this class be smart to mandate more female crew? Why are keelboats in general sausagefests? Should this class do more to attract females as crew?

Slooowww down there for a second. If 'the type of women you hang out with' don't like it you don't have to be bothered with it.

 

Relegating one class to a sausage fest is unfair.

 

You want 'the type of women you want' get your own seven knot shit box and invite said 'type' girls and their girlfriends out. The less the know about sailing the better. Their role on the boat will be to predominantly touch sunscreen and no lines. Whatever else they touch after you get back to the dock is fair game.

 

Note: This might make you a better singlehander.

Again, thanks for making my point. You are right, it's not just the CC30 that's a sausagefest, it's far too many classes. The whole sport is far too male centric. Look at this place. How many women participate in these forums? Is there even one women reading this thread who then offers an opinion about why they like or don't like this boat? If you know any women who have an interest in this type of boat how about asking them to come over here so we can understand their perspective. The women I know can't be bothered with this place.

 

Sailores our sailores, sex = no factorre, you lickette ore you dointe. Plesae stop usseng thisse incedentalle facttes foure youre pearsenolle cauzes.

 

:)

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You're really trying to claim this is a C&C thing huh? Keelboat racing in general is a goddamned sausage fest.

 

I race on a boat that has anywhere between one and three women in the crew out of eight. Looking around, we are way at the right end of the bell curve at any given regatta. You can knock the C&C class for plenty, but trying to decry it as individually male dominated is nuts.

Thank you for making my point, generally.

i was wondering today why sports like skiing and snowboarding have a far closer gender balance, and why keelboats as you say are a sausagefest. Would this class be smart to mandate more female crew? Why are keelboats in general sausagefests? Should this class do more to attract females as crew?

Slooowww down there for a second. If 'the type of women you hang out with' don't like it you don't have to be bothered with it.

 

Relegating one class to a sausage fest is unfair.

 

You want 'the type of women you want' get your own seven knot shit box and invite said 'type' girls and their girlfriends out. The less the know about sailing the better. Their role on the boat will be to predominantly touch sunscreen and no lines. Whatever else they touch after you get back to the dock is fair game.

 

Note: This might make you a better singlehander.

Again, thanks for making my point. You are right, it's not just the CC30 that's a sausagefest, it's far too many classes. The whole sport is far too male centric. Look at this place. How many women participate in these forums? Is there even one women reading this thread who then offers an opinion about why they like or don't like this boat? If you know any women who have an interest in this type of boat how about asking them to come over here so we can understand their perspective. The women I know can't be bothered with this place.

Sounds more like the women you hang out with can't be bothered with you-

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hmm... might start at the bottom and figure out a way to get more woman helms. Plenty of woman are competitive in golf and tennis as life time sports, so the issue is not competition per se... Sking is probably more recreational then competitive... and they have lots of woman on the slopes. Being the helm gives you a sense of control and gets you to invest in the sport and then into building a team and so on and so on.

 

IMO, a major hurdle is the need to be mechanically handy to keep the boat race ready as an individual owner. I bet a club setting that maintained a club fleet would be the optimal way to get woman taking on driving their own boats.

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You're really trying to claim this is a C&C thing huh? Keelboat racing in general is a goddamned sausage fest.

 

I race on a boat that has anywhere between one and three women in the crew out of eight. Looking around, we are way at the right end of the bell curve at any given regatta. You can knock the C&C class for plenty, but trying to decry it as individually male dominated is nuts.

Thank you for making my point, generally.

i was wondering today why sports like skiing and snowboarding have a far closer gender balance, and why keelboats as you say are a sausagefest. Would this class be smart to mandate more female crew? Why are keelboats in general sausagefests? Should this class do more to attract females as crew?

Slooowww down there for a second. If 'the type of women you hang out with' don't like it you don't have to be bothered with it.

 

Relegating one class to a sausage fest is unfair.

 

You want 'the type of women you want' get your own seven knot shit box and invite said 'type' girls and their girlfriends out. The less the know about sailing the better. Their role on the boat will be to predominantly touch sunscreen and no lines. Whatever else they touch after you get back to the dock is fair game.

 

Note: This might make you a better singlehander.

Again, thanks for making my point. You are right, it's not just the CC30 that's a sausagefest, it's far too many classes. The whole sport is far too male centric. Look at this place. How many women participate in these forums? Is there even one women reading this thread who then offers an opinion about why they like or don't like this boat? If you know any women who have an interest in this type of boat how about asking them to come over here so we can understand their perspective. The women I know can't be bothered with this place.

Sailores our sailores, sex = no factorre, you lickette ore you dointe. Plesae stop usseng thisse incedentalle facttes foure youre pearsenolle cauzes.

 

:)

Perhaps if you wrote in English I'd know how to respond. Do you have a learning disability? There's help for that.

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Setup a crèche at the club on race day and you might be surprised how many young mums all of a sudden become available to race.

Maybe that isn't sunseekers target demographic, but if mum races, dad races, sure as shit little Johnny and Jill will learn to sail too

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hmm... might start at the bottom and figure out a way to get more woman helms. Plenty of woman are competitive in golf and tennis as life time sports, so the issue is not competition per se... Sking is probably more recreational then competitive... and they have lots of woman on the slopes. Being the helm gives you a sense of control and gets you to invest in the sport and then into building a team and so on and so on.

 

IMO, a major hurdle is the need to be mechanically handy to keep the boat race ready as an individual owner. I bet a club setting that maintained a club fleet would be the optimal way to get woman taking on driving their own boats.

Maybe even learning that the plural of woman is women might help out a little bit :)

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Setup a crèche at the club on race day and you might be surprised how many young mums all of a sudden become available to race.

Maybe that isn't sunseekers target demographic, but if mum races, dad races, sure as shit little Johnny and Jill will learn to sail too

 

 

Actually this is something the Lightning class did a few years ago at their NA's in Sheboygan (for you Aussies who aren't familiar with the area, that's Lake Michigan, where Terry Kohler of North Sails lived). They invited kids who came to the regatta with their family into their junior program. From all accounts, it was a huge success. I think there were 100 boats that year.

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Sun seeker,

 

My wife bought one, to sail exludively with female crew and is loving it. Looked at lots of boats all sizes and types m32, m24, m20, j70, mc31 , mc38 and bought the C&c

 

It's a perfect sized boat for women to sail, just need one More crew than men's crew for weight.

 

Cheers

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Sun seeker,

 

My wife bought one, to sail exludively with female crew and is loving it. Looked at lots of boats all sizes and types m32, m24, m20, j70, mc31 , mc38 and bought the C&c

 

It's a perfect sized boat for women to sail, just need one More crew than men's crew for weight.

 

Cheers

That's great, the sport needs more of this.

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Will be interesting to see how he goes in his first regatta this weekend on the harbour, could have come for some good racing in another fleet but has chosen to chicken out and try to make sure he beats an Mc31 and J24

 

https://www.topyacht.com.au/db/aus/entrants_display.php?SeriesID=4421&Task=ShowSeriesEntrants&EventID=712

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They should roll those two fleets together. Would be interesting to see the MC & C&C go head to head with Little Nico & the M32's.

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The list of entries for the Super 30 Fleet will be requiring some editing prior to kick off. Some misfits in there. And yes... as far as I know, it will be the first time a C&C 30 comes up against the regular Super 30ers. Should be interesting. Crew for crew, the numbers suggest it will be right in the mix.

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Same thing in HP30 in the UK. Assy only class anyway but they just changed the rules to exclude the Mumm 30 (and Melges 32)

 

Plenty of Mumm 30's with prodders

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The results of the Sydney Harbor regatta are posted. Interesting results, but obviously I have no idea if these boats were sailed to their potential. Going just off elapsed time, not corrected for PHS, the Hick 30 and MC 31 performed very well. The Hick 30 took line honors in 3 of 4 races and the MC 31 took honors in the other 1 race. Overall corrected winner was a J97. The Hick 30 "Very Tasty" is an older boat, launched in 2000 and looks to be crazy fast. I'm not sure what they have in it, some were all carbon with a canting keel, but I am not sure about Tasty. Here is a breakdown of uncorrected elapsed times in each of the 4 races:

 

race 1 race 2 race 3 race 4

Hick 30 40:59 , 41:00, 1:08:03, 1:06:25 "Very Tasty"

MC 31 43:14, 43:32, 1:01:13, 1:07:38 "Saudade"

C&C 30 47:23, 43:54, 1:03:50, 1:09:01 "Whisper 30"

FE 28r 45:34, 53:53, 1:08:18, 1:13:56 "Wilding 2"

Farr 30 42:24, 43:57, 1:04:28, 1:08:53 - times for overall top finishing Farr 30 Foreign Affair

 

 

http://www.topyacht.net.au/results/2017/shr/super30/series.htm

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How many women are active crew in the CC 30 class?

 

Sure it's a cool boat, but I have zero interest in spending my time in a class that is designed only for men, and even a subset of men that tends towards, we'll never mind what I think it tends towards, the market seems to have voted with its feet.

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On Themis we sail with one or two women all the time. If you are truest interested in seeing the boats or learning about the class racing PM me

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So he can get taken for a ride by you and your $1,000/day ilk on a 30 foot boat?

Jealous much bro?

Incredulous is more like it. That someone can make a six figure income running the program for a 30 foot boat.

Two boats...and what's it any of your business? ya sound a bit bitter-

from where I sit, I'm fucking happy for anyone in his position- good on him

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Is be happy to sit in Leo's position he landed an awesome job. Can't tell you what and where cause that's not cool but it's awesome. Plus he can sail the shit out of any boat.

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Cool boat that's great fun to sail - 20 knots downwind is hard to argue with!

 

With the recent uptick in economic confidence and some smart class leadership I would expect some solid growth in the years to come.

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Found a pick of that Hick 30 VeryTasty that smoked everybody at Sydney. Looks to be well sailed.

 

70813745-_MG_9020+as+Smart+Object-1.jpg

 

 

 

Details on Tasty from another thread:

 

" .....diesel and sail drive removed (5hp outboard added), carbon stick, new sails (Doyle/McDiarmid, all with a bit more area), new carbon rudder, trimmed bulb, plumbed bow... "

 

 

"Chris Sligar's boats had absolutely nothing inside of it. Stanchions and life lines removed, etc. It is bare bones. But a slippery sucker. He had a carbon rig added and I think a jazzy rudder at some stage. Some hot sails too - from Ullman if I recall. Quick boat that I reckon would give a Melges32 a hurry up"

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On Themis we sail with one or two women all the time. If you are truest interested in seeing the boats or learning about the class racing PM me

Thanks for the offer. I've seen the boat up close, and pay enough attention to the class to know the boat is interesting and the class is ok. It just seems like it's never going to get 20 boats consistently on the line. 6-10, maybe an event or two with 14.

 

It's a sign of the times.

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Found a pick of that Hick 30 VeryTasty that smoked everybody at Sydney. Looks to be well sailed.

 

70813745-_MG_9020+as+Smart+Object-1.jpg

 

 

 

Details on Tasty from another thread:

 

" .....diesel and sail drive removed (5hp outboard added), carbon stick, new sails (Doyle/McDiarmid, all with a bit more area), new carbon rudder, trimmed bulb, plumbed bow... "

 

 

"Chris Sligar's boats had absolutely nothing inside of it. Stanchions and life lines removed, etc. It is bare bones. But a slippery sucker. He had a carbon rig added and I think a jazzy rudder at some stage. Some hot sails too - from Ullman if I recall. Quick boat that I reckon would give a Melges32 a hurry up"

 

 

Aside from race 3, tasty really dominated the elapsed time race. Impressive to see how a older boat, with well executed modifications and kit, can still take down the modern GP style boats. I mean the C&C 30, MC 31 are very quick, but tasty was 5-10% quicker. I agree that the Melges 32 might have it's hands full as well. It looks like the MC 31 edged out the C&C 30.

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Tasty is a very quick boat that's sailed extremely well. The guys know the boat and the setup and they're pretty handy at sailing around Sydney Harbour too. We've enjoyed some great racing against them on the MC31 and look forward to more next summer too. The Super 30 fleet has a wide range of boats and any of them can win on their day, but the racing is so close that any mistake is punished.

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