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What's happened to the C&C 30?

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Block island will be much better attended as many boats are closer- kwrw is very very expensive for a 30'er that needs 8 crew.

 

They are really fun boats and are very tweaky..

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The class is still alive and from the sounds of things could be in for another growth both nationally and internationally in the very near future.

 

From my understanding almost all of the owners have committed to bringing everything back on line starting at either the annapolis Nood regatta or the NYYC annual. I think it's easy to see how the majority of the fleet really put in the effort to support almost every class regatta the last year and a half and with only one winter regatta scheduled ( KWRW) I think it made sense to allot of the owners to omit the most expensive regatta of year to say resources for the summer.

 

Internationally I have also been told that the builder is working on a possible 7 boat deal headed down under. If this happened I think ( I hope) we will see this boat Get its world sailing international status and grow internationally.

 

I can't honestly say enough good things about the boat and class. It's a great replacement for the mumm/Farr 30 as it's built well enough to go offshore and rips in breeze.

 

It's really unfortunate that the class had a big hiccup in the begging when it had a very hard time defining if it was a owner driver class or a cat 1 driven class. Ultimately I think it not only effected the teams already sailing but also the momentum of the building fleet.

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Much like Wang I cannot say enough good things about this boat. We did the Chi-Mac race and had an absolute blast! It was our first go at sailing the boat in big breeze and big waves and while it was WET, we learned a lot about what to do to make it drier. We also sailed way to conservatively in the first squall as we really did not know how the boat would react. In the future we would be much less that way and send it a lot harder.

 

Our team owner just can't take 10 days away from the office and his family to sail either Key West or Block Island so we are going to focus on the 3 day events like Annapolis NOOD, NYYC Annual, Verve Cup, Big Boat and the Long Beach event that are on the class schedule. As a team we are all really excited and can't wait to get the Girl on the water again. We know we have a lot of catching up to do time in the boat wise but we relish the challenge. Catching up to DC and Wang will be a tough effort but we will her a go.

 

I hope that as a class we have a serious chat about week long events and maybe a more coordinated Caribbean effort next winter!

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Petey sent some cool stuff in for the front page. going up shortly.

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REMOVED

 

That is not true.

 

 

I pulled a post for potential legal liability. Please consider whether or not someone can sue you and win before you post untrue statements about people's livelihood, Leo, and remember that "I heard" does not insulate you, nor in some cases, the owner of the forums you post on.

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REMOVED

 

That is not true.

 

 

I pulled a post for potential legal liability. Please consider whether or not someone can sue you and win before you post untrue statements about people's livelihood, Leo, and remember that "I heard" does not insulate you, nor in some cases, the owner of the forums you post on.

 

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Is any 30 foot boat growing in numbers these days? Melges 32 - NO. MC31 - NO. CC30 - NO. It is a hard ask for a lot of people to spend $200k+ after all said and done. Then throw in lets do class events from Block, to KW, to Long Beach. That is an ambition schedule comprised of huge expenses and time off. If I look at the fleet currently for the CC30, the only boat that seems to be in the game financially is Extreme2. Everyone else there does not seem to be a comparison. Results also show this as well.

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Even if a boat were free, moving a 30 foot boat around and across the USA is a big $$$ commitment for anyone.

 

p.s. - Hey Clean! I heard C&C is owned by tentacle-aliens and soon you will have to have 8 arms to sail in that class. I heard it from a guy.............

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Themis and Nemesis will be heading down to the Caribbean and then back in time for the Annapolis NOOD. We have 4 boats racing in the Caribbean. Not a bad showing for the first year.

The rest of the plan includes NYYC regatta , Block Island Race Week ( NAs ) then looking at options heading west.

 

Geoff

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Removed for potential defamatory liability

Sounds like someone has been warned off, who did you get a call from Clean...?

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The comment at the end of the J/121 article on the FP - that J/Boats is the only remaining performance keelboat builder in the US - is arguably conveying the same message as Leo from Rio's redacted comment. One via omission and one via commission, no?

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The comment at the end of the J/121 article on the FP - that J/Boats is the only remaining performance keelboat builder in the US - is arguably conveying the same message as Leo from Rio's redacted comment. One via omission and one via commission, no?

Are Melges not built in the U.S. anymore, or is this just more J Boats marketing puffery with all of the "speedsters"? There may be a job in D.C. for the JBoats marketing folks if this boat thing doesn't work out.

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The comment at the end of the J/121 article on the FP - that J/Boats is the only remaining performance keelboat builder in the US - is arguably conveying the same message as Leo from Rio's redacted comment. One via omission and one via commission, no?

Are Melges not built in the U.S. anymore, or is this just more J Boats marketing puffery with all of the "speedsters"? There may be a job in D.C. for the JBoats marketing folks if this boat thing doesn't work out.

 

 

Semantics...It's easy to come up with a statement that while true, implies something that is not.

 

Melges generally categorized as a "sport boat". while most J's are "performance boats"

 

Melges has a lifting keel so it could be argued it is not a keelboat in the traditional sense of the word.

 

The statement" J/Boats is the only remaining performance keelboat builder in the US" is rather nebulous.

 

Does that mean built in the US, US owned, both, or something else?

 

Beneteau builds some boats in the US but is not US owned.

 

J is US owned but builds some boats outside the US.

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You are right. Definitely semantics. Like, a JBoat is a "performance boat" if you own some (but not all) Beneteaus. But it's not a performance boat if you own many other things. So I can see why J Boats would be confused about this, assuming it's not meant to be intentionally misleading, like the phrase "speedster."

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Is any 30 foot boat growing in numbers these days? Melges 32 - NO. MC31 - NO. CC30 - NO. It is a hard ask for a lot of people to spend $200k+ after all said and done. Then throw in lets do class events from Block, to KW, to Long Beach. That is an ambition schedule comprised of huge expenses and time off. If I look at the fleet currently for the CC30, the only boat that seems to be in the game financially is Extreme2. Everyone else there does not seem to be a comparison. Results also show this as well.

The J/88 is close to 100 boats now, though not a purpose built racer like a Melges, MC or C&C. It's always tougher to get big build numbers for dedicated race boats these days.

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The comment at the end of the J/121 article on the FP - that J/Boats is the only remaining performance keelboat builder in the US - is arguably conveying the same message as Leo from Rio's redacted comment. One via omission and one via commission, no?

 

Are Melges not built in the U.S. anymore, or is this just more J Boats marketing puffery with all of the "speedsters"? There may be a job in D.C. for the JBoats marketing folks if this boat thing doesn't work out.

Never knew jboats built boats. Always thought they contracted others to do that.

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Stagg Yachts are now involved.

 

https://www.staggyachts.com/

Uh oh..not sure if this is good or not..I raced in the Mumm/Farr 30 class when Stagg managed that class. I was just crew though, so it did not affect me directly.

 

I like the C&C 30. Real lifelines and pulpits and stuff. About the same speed as a Farr 30 or a Farr 280 around a W/L race course, but they have to reach around down wind with no way to pull the pole back and point at the mark. If you like the same VMG as a boat almost pointing at the mark doing 11-13 while doing 15 knots sorta downwind, cool...to each his own..I just cruise my 4KSB around the Chesapeake these days. Hell, I was in Key West this year for Race Week and went fishing and had just as much fun!

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The comment at the end of the J/121 article on the FP - that J/Boats is the only remaining performance keelboat builder in the US - is arguably conveying the same message as Leo from Rio's redacted comment. One via omission and one via commission, no?

Are Melges not built in the U.S. anymore, or is this just more J Boats marketing puffery with all of the "speedsters"? There may be a job in D.C. for the JBoats marketing folks if this boat thing doesn't work out.
Never knew jboats built boats. Always thought they contracted others to do that.

 

 

potato po'carrot.

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Just noticed Roxanne is for sale and they seemed to be a well sorted program. Checkmate also sold the 2 boats they campaigned. LOCO for sale.

 

Seems like a great boat, but just curious why these programs are already out?

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Just noticed Roxanne is for sale and they seemed to be a well sorted program. Checkmate also sold the 2 boats they campaigned. LOCO for sale.

 

Seems like a great boat, but just curious why these programs are already out?

 

$

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Just noticed Roxanne is for sale and they seemed to be a well sorted program. Checkmate also sold the 2 boats they campaigned. LOCO for sale.

 

Seems like a great boat, but just curious why these programs are already out?

$

Checkmate is out because they lost their dealer license-

 

Dunno about Roxane and loco

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Just noticed Roxanne is for sale and they seemed to be a well sorted program. Checkmate also sold the 2 boats they campaigned. LOCO for sale.

 

Seems like a great boat, but just curious why these programs are already out?

$

Checkmate is out because they lost their dealer license-

 

Dunno about Roxane and loco

 

 

Was Loco an Ullman Sails deal? This would make sense like Checkmate if it were true.

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Is any 30 foot boat growing in numbers these days? Melges 32 - NO. MC31 - NO. CC30 - NO. It is a hard ask for a lot of people to spend $200k+ after all said and done. Then throw in lets do class events from Block, to KW, to Long Beach. That is an ambition schedule comprised of huge expenses and time off. If I look at the fleet currently for the CC30, the only boat that seems to be in the game financially is Extreme2. Everyone else there does not seem to be a comparison. Results also show this as well.

The J/88 is close to 100 boats now, though not a purpose built racer like a Melges, MC or C&C. It's always tougher to get big build numbers for dedicated race boats these days.

 

 

j/88 is a nice boat, but it's not a huge O.D. success

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Wow thats not very nice to say Leo!

 

Yes Dan has probably invested the most in the class and I just don't mean money.

 

He is the class president and therefor made the commitment to attend every one design start last year to promote the class, He spends endless amount of hours on the phone and email, He bought a coach boat (It was half the price of the race boat BTW) and brought in Farley to not only coach us but to also help organize Quantums roll to support the class and hold open style debriefs with all the teams invited, Bought a Van so we can house all of our gear in it and also pull the boat ourselves instead of getting a trailer and paying someone else $3.50 a mile to haul it, Either hosted or sponsored all of the class parties to promote comradey. Lets not even talk about all the team gear he buys and actually has paid photographers to not only get cool pictures of us but most of the class to put up on the class site and Facebook page to make sure the class has a good media presence.

 

So yes Dan has probably invested more than everyone else in the class. To be honest without the help of the guys on the boats like Themis/Nemesis, Just a friend, Stark Raving mad, Nyabhingi, and bobsled I think this would just be another class, but these guys (and the guys behind the scenes) have taken the time or money to do the best they can to promote not only themselves but the class and the fun racing we have all be enjoying.

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Wow thats not very nice to say Leo!

 

Yes Dan has probably invested the most in the class and I just don't mean money.

 

He is the class president and therefor made the commitment to attend every one design start last year to promote the class, He spends endless amount of hours on the phone and email, He bought a coach boat (It was half the price of the race boat BTW) and brought in Farley to not only coach us but to also help organize Quantums roll to support the class and hold open style debriefs with all the teams invited, Bought a Van so we can house all of our gear in it and also pull the boat ourselves instead of getting a trailer and paying someone else $3.50 a mile to haul it, Either hosted or sponsored all of the class parties to promote comradey. Lets not even talk about all the team gear he buys and actually has paid photographers to not only get cool pictures of us but most of the class to put up on the class site and Facebook page to make sure the class has a good media presence.

 

So yes Dan has probably invested more than everyone else in the class. To be honest without the help of the guys on the boats like Themis/Nemesis, Just a friend, Stark Raving mad, Nyabhingi, and bobsled I think this would just be another class, but these guys (and the guys behind the scenes) have taken the time or money to do the best they can to promote not only themselves but the class and the fun racing we have all be enjoying.

 

Maybe true, and seems like an awesome bloke, but it still is $. All that, doesn't equate to the average owner, it is far beyond.

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Okay, here's another one.The C&C 30 class insists on only doing very expensive regattas in very expensive places. It's as if sailing doesn't exist in places outside Key West, Newport, or Block Island.

 

Then people complain about the campaign costs.

 

Discuss...

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Perhaps as simple as marketing to likely owners.

Special venues for special people.

M32s went down that path and one can see where they are today.

Ever see what regatta fees run for M32 Class events?

What are the fees like for the CC30s?

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Tbone... the events you do as a class are a function of critical mass. You have to get 10 other boat owners to agree on the program. These boats are not going to be used locally for Wed night racing.. So... the issue is.. How would you run a national class? Minimally... you need 3 day regattas. How many of those are left in your local area... On the Chesapeake.... I can think of one... NOODS.

 

The costs of NOODS is well above the cost of local two day regattas..... Why? probably because running an event like NOODS is more like a job then supporting boat racing by volunteering your time at your yacht club as part of a community of clubs reciprocating racing privleges.

Can you pass on the highest profile racing in north america? I don't think so.... at this level.... you have to factor in the ego's (in a good way) involved.... or as Fearless leader would say... it must be bigleagely

 

I don't think you can ding them for this particular strategy for creating a new national peformance racing class. its a tough enviorment sustaining anything in sailing these days.

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Wow thats not very nice to say Leo!

 

Yes Dan has probably invested the most in the class and I just don't mean money.

 

He is the class president and therefor made the commitment to attend every one design start last year to promote the class, He spends endless amount of hours on the phone and email, He bought a coach boat (It was half the price of the race boat BTW) and brought in Farley to not only coach us but to also help organize Quantums roll to support the class and hold open style debriefs with all the teams invited, Bought a Van so we can house all of our gear in it and also pull the boat ourselves instead of getting a trailer and paying someone else $3.50 a mile to haul it, Either hosted or sponsored all of the class parties to promote comradey. Lets not even talk about all the team gear he buys and actually has paid photographers to not only get cool pictures of us but most of the class to put up on the class site and Facebook page to make sure the class has a good media presence.

 

So yes Dan has probably invested more than everyone else in the class. To be honest without the help of the guys on the boats like Themis/Nemesis, Just a friend, Stark Raving mad, Nyabhingi, and bobsled I think this would just be another class, but these guys (and the guys behind the scenes) have taken the time or money to do the best they can to promote not only themselves but the class and the fun racing we have all be enjoying.

 

Maybe true, and seems like an awesome bloke, but it still is $. All that, doesn't equate to the average owner, it is far beyond.

 

Because the wind is free, doesn't mean everything else in sailing should be.

 

Any sport at a competitive level is expensive, I don't get your point. The "Average owner" in the C&C 30 class has spare coin. Good on them for making money and spending it as they see fit!

 

Some people race cars, Some fly gliders, some hire hookers. All expensive past times. But hey, they earn't there money. you cant knock them for that.

 

On the flip side, Try making a 30 foot "Sport boat" for under $100k and make money. Everything is a compromise, you want fast, fun, exciting and good service and support. It cost money. These guys aren't in the J88 fleet because it doesn't give them enough Jolly's. They would likely spend the same amount of money in total but go very much slower. Whats the point?

 

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Wow thats not very nice to say Leo!

 

Yes Dan has probably invested the most in the class and I just don't mean money.

 

He is the class president and therefor made the commitment to attend every one design start last year to promote the class, He spends endless amount of hours on the phone and email, He bought a coach boat (It was half the price of the race boat BTW) and brought in Farley to not only coach us but to also help organize Quantums roll to support the class and hold open style debriefs with all the teams invited, Bought a Van so we can house all of our gear in it and also pull the boat ourselves instead of getting a trailer and paying someone else $3.50 a mile to haul it, Either hosted or sponsored all of the class parties to promote comradey. Lets not even talk about all the team gear he buys and actually has paid photographers to not only get cool pictures of us but most of the class to put up on the class site and Facebook page to make sure the class has a good media presence.

 

So yes Dan has probably invested more than everyone else in the class. To be honest without the help of the guys on the boats like Themis/Nemesis, Just a friend, Stark Raving mad, Nyabhingi, and bobsled I think this would just be another class, but these guys (and the guys behind the scenes) have taken the time or money to do the best they can to promote not only themselves but the class and the fun racing we have all be enjoying.

Maybe true, and seems like an awesome bloke, but it still is $. All that, doesn't equate to the average owner, it is far beyond.

Because the wind is free, doesn't mean everything else in sailing should be.

 

Any sport at a competitive level is expensive, I don't get your point. The "Average owner" in the C&C 30 class has spare coin. Good on them for making money and spending it as they see fit!

 

Some people race cars, Some fly gliders, some hire hookers. All expensive past times. But hey, they earn't there money. you cant knock them for that.

 

On the flip side, Try making a 30 foot "Sport boat" for under $100k and make money. Everything is a compromise, you want fast, fun, exciting and good service and support. It cost money. These guys aren't in the J88 fleet because it doesn't give them enough Jolly's. They would likely spend the same amount of money in total but go very much slower. Whats the point?

The point is not every team wants to buy or can buy a expensive coach boat, team van, coach, etc. Some people race not to join an arms race. You can have a great class without these expenses. People choose to make it expensive. It has nothing to do with people having spare coin and therefore we shouldn't mention money because they earned it. We should however keep costs reasonable for the masses to promote strong classes. These days we need more average owners in sailing who race on a smaller budget. We need growth not to be outspent by $ by others.

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Wow thats not very nice to say Leo!

 

Yes Dan has probably invested the most in the class and I just don't mean money.

 

He is the class president and therefor made the commitment to attend every one design start last year to promote the class, He spends endless amount of hours on the phone and email, He bought a coach boat (It was half the price of the race boat BTW) and brought in Farley to not only coach us but to also help organize Quantums roll to support the class and hold open style debriefs with all the teams invited, Bought a Van so we can house all of our gear in it and also pull the boat ourselves instead of getting a trailer and paying someone else $3.50 a mile to haul it, Either hosted or sponsored all of the class parties to promote comradey. Lets not even talk about all the team gear he buys and actually has paid photographers to not only get cool pictures of us but most of the class to put up on the class site and Facebook page to make sure the class has a good media presence.

 

So yes Dan has probably invested more than everyone else in the class. To be honest without the help of the guys on the boats like Themis/Nemesis, Just a friend, Stark Raving mad, Nyabhingi, and bobsled I think this would just be another class, but these guys (and the guys behind the scenes) have taken the time or money to do the best they can to promote not only themselves but the class and the fun racing we have all be enjoying.

Maybe true, and seems like an awesome bloke, but it still is $. All that, doesn't equate to the average owner, it is far beyond.

Because the wind is free, doesn't mean everything else in sailing should be.

 

Any sport at a competitive level is expensive, I don't get your point. The "Average owner" in the C&C 30 class has spare coin. Good on them for making money and spending it as they see fit!

 

Some people race cars, Some fly gliders, some hire hookers. All expensive past times. But hey, they earn't there money. you cant knock them for that.

 

On the flip side, Try making a 30 foot "Sport boat" for under $100k and make money. Everything is a compromise, you want fast, fun, exciting and good service and support. It cost money. These guys aren't in the J88 fleet because it doesn't give them enough Jolly's. They would likely spend the same amount of money in total but go very much slower. Whats the point?

The point is not every team wants to buy or can buy a expensive coach boat, team van, coach, etc. Some people race not to join an arms race. You can have a great class without these expenses. People choose to make it expensive. It has nothing to do with people having spare coin and therefore we shouldn't mention money because they earned it. We should however keep costs reasonable for the masses to promote strong classes. These days we need more average owners in sailing who race on a smaller budget. We need growth not to be outspent by $ by others.

 

There are classes for that. But more importantly. Its their circuit.

In Perth, we have an 8m boat, partially club owned, Outright it is $80K AUD, with a deal its more like $50k. The club maintains the boat and berths it and even buys some sails.

 

In 8 years they have sold 16 boats (3 privately), in one of the largest mining boom times Australia has ever seen. It is THE cheapest sailing you can do in a "competitive" Keel boat fleet. And some people still complain about the cost's.

 

No matter what the cost is, someone who cant afford it always complains it should be cheaper. If you cant afford it, go halves or learn to sail and join the team as a hardworking Mastman etc.

 

Logistically. Money helps. The more drilled the campaign is, the more enjoyment the owner gets, from my experience.

There is a massive difference in Grand prix/Performance racing, and the local guy who wants to go to 1 or 2 regattas a year with his $50k 20 yr old boat.

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Im not.. Ive sailed on Themis, Awesome boat. I understand what the guys in the fleet are trying to do, and how they want to spend their money.

 

Stop complaining. If more guys with a large expendable income in other classes help to build the class instead of complaining, racing would be at an awesome level in more fleets.

 

Sure the class could put in a few measures to lower costs, and maybe they should in some aspects, but the person who wants to spend because they earnt their money will, spend their money.

 

A good example is the GP42 change to the Soto 40. Soto's were cheaper and lower spec, No ribs, no containers, sails stay on the yacht an entire event, tighter sail cards etc etc. Didn't work, the guys who wanted to race the cool boat went and raced the cool boat.

 

C&C 30 is the cool boat. Get behind it and start a local fleet with the bunch of 2nd hand boats available, you dont need pro's and Ribs for that.

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Im not.. Ive sailed on Themis, Awesome boat. I understand what the guys in the fleet are trying to do, and how they want to spend their money.

 

Stop complaining. If more guys with a large expendable income in other classes help to build the class instead of complaining, racing would be at an awesome level in more fleets.

 

Sure the class could put in a few measures to lower costs, and maybe they should in some aspects, but the person who wants to spend because they earnt their money will, spend their money.

 

A good example is the GP42 change to the Soto 40. Soto's were cheaper and lower spec, No ribs, no containers, sails stay on the yacht an entire event, tighter sail cards etc etc. Didn't work, the guys who wanted to race the cool boat went and raced the cool boat.

 

C&C 30 is the cool boat. Get behind it and start a local fleet with the bunch of 2nd hand boats available, you dont need pro's and Ribs for that.

 

I am not sure the CC30 is the cool boat. Yes I have sailed it, and it was a fun 30 footer. But, it also has its downfalls such as coming out over weight. Dollar for Dollar, there may be better options. The new G-Force 32 is around the same price point. They don't list weight yet, but it may be the better option. The MC31 could be as well if someone imports one to the states. Best bang for your buck right now in the 30 range is a used Melges 32. Just go ask the ED.

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After growing up sailing J30s you will never ever ever convince me that you need a team of professionals or "amateurs" to race a 30 footer. Maybe one as the tactician.

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Im not.. Ive sailed on Themis, Awesome boat. I understand what the guys in the fleet are trying to do, and how they want to spend their money.

 

Stop complaining. If more guys with a large expendable income in other classes help to build the class instead of complaining, racing would be at an awesome level in more fleets.

 

Sure the class could put in a few measures to lower costs, and maybe they should in some aspects, but the person who wants to spend because they earnt their money will, spend their money.

 

A good example is the GP42 change to the Soto 40. Soto's were cheaper and lower spec, No ribs, no containers, sails stay on the yacht an entire event, tighter sail cards etc etc. Didn't work, the guys who wanted to race the cool boat went and raced the cool boat.

 

C&C 30 is the cool boat. Get behind it and start a local fleet with the bunch of 2nd hand boats available, you dont need pro's and Ribs for that.

 

I am not sure the CC30 is the cool boat. Yes I have sailed it, and it was a fun 30 footer. But, it also has its downfalls such as coming out over weight. Dollar for Dollar, there may be better options. The new G-Force 32 is around the same price point. They don't list weight yet, but it may be the better option. The MC31 could be as well if someone imports one to the states. Best bang for your buck right now in the 30 range is a used Melges 32. Just go ask the ED.

 

MC31... Serious? better do some research on that one...

 

Melges 32 is limited to W/L. They don't carry safety gear weight very well, cant go upwind in waves or Carry reaching sails with out breaking stuff. Been there, done that. Got the t-Shirt.

 

Is there 10 G-Force 32's sailing on one start line anywhere?

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After growing up sailing J30s you will never ever ever convince me that you need a team of professionals or "amateurs" to race a 30 footer. Maybe one as the tactician.

Then you still have much to learn.

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After growing up sailing J30s you will never ever ever convince me that you need a team of professionals or "amateurs" to race a 30 footer. Maybe one as the tactician.

Then you still have much to learn.

 

 

Well said, Yoda.

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Im not.. Ive sailed on Themis, Awesome boat. I understand what the guys in the fleet are trying to do, and how they want to spend their money.

 

Stop complaining. If more guys with a large expendable income in other classes help to build the class instead of complaining, racing would be at an awesome level in more fleets.

 

Sure the class could put in a few measures to lower costs, and maybe they should in some aspects, but the person who wants to spend because they earnt their money will, spend their money.

 

A good example is the GP42 change to the Soto 40. Soto's were cheaper and lower spec, No ribs, no containers, sails stay on the yacht an entire event, tighter sail cards etc etc. Didn't work, the guys who wanted to race the cool boat went and raced the cool boat.

 

C&C 30 is the cool boat. Get behind it and start a local fleet with the bunch of 2nd hand boats available, you dont need pro's and Ribs for that.

I am not sure the CC30 is the cool boat. Yes I have sailed it, and it was a fun 30 footer. But, it also has its downfalls such as coming out over weight. Dollar for Dollar, there may be better options. The new G-Force 32 is around the same price point. They don't list weight yet, but it may be the better option. The MC31 could be as well if someone imports one to the states. Best bang for your buck right now in the 30 range is a used Melges 32. Just go ask the ED.

MC31... Serious? better do some research on that one...

 

Melges 32 is limited to W/L. They don't carry safety gear weight very well, cant go upwind in waves or Carry reaching sails with out breaking stuff. Been there, done that. Got the t-Shirt.

 

Is there 10 G-Force 32's sailing on one start line anywhere?

What happened to the mc31? A few showed up in Aus, and I haven't heard a word since

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Im not.. Ive sailed on Themis, Awesome boat. I understand what the guys in the fleet are trying to do, and how they want to spend their money.

 

Stop complaining. If more guys with a large expendable income in other classes help to build the class instead of complaining, racing would be at an awesome level in more fleets.

 

Sure the class could put in a few measures to lower costs, and maybe they should in some aspects, but the person who wants to spend because they earnt their money will, spend their money.

 

A good example is the GP42 change to the Soto 40. Soto's were cheaper and lower spec, No ribs, no containers, sails stay on the yacht an entire event, tighter sail cards etc etc. Didn't work, the guys who wanted to race the cool boat went and raced the cool boat.

 

C&C 30 is the cool boat. Get behind it and start a local fleet with the bunch of 2nd hand boats available, you dont need pro's and Ribs for that.

I am not sure the CC30 is the cool boat. Yes I have sailed it, and it was a fun 30 footer. But, it also has its downfalls such as coming out over weight. Dollar for Dollar, there may be better options. The new G-Force 32 is around the same price point. They don't list weight yet, but it may be the better option. The MC31 could be as well if someone imports one to the states. Best bang for your buck right now in the 30 range is a used Melges 32. Just go ask the ED.

MC31... Serious? better do some research on that one...

 

Melges 32 is limited to W/L. They don't carry safety gear weight very well, cant go upwind in waves or Carry reaching sails with out breaking stuff. Been there, done that. Got the t-Shirt.

 

Is there 10 G-Force 32's sailing on one start line anywhere?

What happened to the mc31? A few showed up in Aus, and I haven't heard a word since

Ill let that one slide through to the keeper.

 

Look at Geelong Festival of sails results in the Super 11 fleet.

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Im not.. Ive sailed on Themis, Awesome boat. I understand what the guys in the fleet are trying to do, and how they want to spend their money.

 

Stop complaining. If more guys with a large expendable income in other classes help to build the class instead of complaining, racing would be at an awesome level in more fleets.

 

Sure the class could put in a few measures to lower costs, and maybe they should in some aspects, but the person who wants to spend because they earnt their money will, spend their money.

 

A good example is the GP42 change to the Soto 40. Soto's were cheaper and lower spec, No ribs, no containers, sails stay on the yacht an entire event, tighter sail cards etc etc. Didn't work, the guys who wanted to race the cool boat went and raced the cool boat.

 

C&C 30 is the cool boat. Get behind it and start a local fleet with the bunch of 2nd hand boats available, you dont need pro's and Ribs for that.

I am not sure the CC30 is the cool boat. Yes I have sailed it, and it was a fun 30 footer. But, it also has its downfalls such as coming out over weight. Dollar for Dollar, there may be better options. The new G-Force 32 is around the same price point. They don't list weight yet, but it may be the better option. The MC31 could be as well if someone imports one to the states. Best bang for your buck right now in the 30 range is a used Melges 32. Just go ask the ED.

MC31... Serious? better do some research on that one...

 

Melges 32 is limited to W/L. They don't carry safety gear weight very well, cant go upwind in waves or Carry reaching sails with out breaking stuff. Been there, done that. Got the t-Shirt.

 

Is there 10 G-Force 32's sailing on one start line anywhere?

What happened to the mc31? A few showed up in Aus, and I haven't heard a word since

Ill let that one slide through to the keeper.

 

Look at Geelong Festival of sails results in the Super 11 fleet.

 

 

Yea, and put the CC30 in the same fleet and you might get the same results.

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Im not.. Ive sailed on Themis, Awesome boat. I understand what the guys in the fleet are trying to do, and how they want to spend their money.

 

Stop complaining. If more guys with a large expendable income in other classes help to build the class instead of complaining, racing would be at an awesome level in more fleets.

 

Sure the class could put in a few measures to lower costs, and maybe they should in some aspects, but the person who wants to spend because they earnt their money will, spend their money.

 

A good example is the GP42 change to the Soto 40. Soto's were cheaper and lower spec, No ribs, no containers, sails stay on the yacht an entire event, tighter sail cards etc etc. Didn't work, the guys who wanted to race the cool boat went and raced the cool boat.

 

C&C 30 is the cool boat. Get behind it and start a local fleet with the bunch of 2nd hand boats available, you dont need pro's and Ribs for that.

I am not sure the CC30 is the cool boat. Yes I have sailed it, and it was a fun 30 footer. But, it also has its downfalls such as coming out over weight. Dollar for Dollar, there may be better options. The new G-Force 32 is around the same price point. They don't list weight yet, but it may be the better option. The MC31 could be as well if someone imports one to the states. Best bang for your buck right now in the 30 range is a used Melges 32. Just go ask the ED.

MC31... Serious? better do some research on that one...

 

Melges 32 is limited to W/L. They don't carry safety gear weight very well, cant go upwind in waves or Carry reaching sails with out breaking stuff. Been there, done that. Got the t-Shirt.

 

Is there 10 G-Force 32's sailing on one start line anywhere?

What happened to the mc31? A few showed up in Aus, and I haven't heard a word since

Ill let that one slide through to the keeper.

 

Look at Geelong Festival of sails results in the Super 11 fleet.

 

An MC31 races in the Sydney Super 30 fleet against Farr 30s, Flying Tigers, Melges 32, HIck 30... Pretty handy bunch of blokes and it has its wind range but with comparative crew, is Flying Tiger/Farr 30 pace in moderate breeze. No where near the Melges 32. I know they made it to meet Cat 2 (because we all dream of long distance offshore races on a flush deck 30 footer...) but how they managed to make a smaller, carbon boat weigh the same as a low tech Flying Tiger is a mystery. If you want to be out in front, buy a used Melges for a third of the cost. Want to mix it with the fleet, buy a Tiger for half that again, or the Farr and then you can even dream of going offshore for days too...

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I - netherlands/holland based - am struggling now for two years to go in the sportboat classes and is not easy:

 

In mine opinion the sportboat fleets come up quick and die even quicker.

 

Sold my upgraded qt-er and whitbread 30 ands stil bougt no boat.

 

Looked at maxfun25, melges 24, xtreme 24, farr280 , c&c 30, fareast 28, flying tiger

 

Maxfun: think 20 built , only fleet of 4/5 boats at events

Melges 24: you have to travel countries to do regatta's - too time consuming and crew imposeible to arrange

Xtreme 24: only handicap racing possible with heavy tcc

Far 280 and c&c 30: only racing in the hp30 class in UK , Cowes - too expensive harbour and hotel costs and have to go by plane every regatta

Fareast 28 - 200 plus boats build - only one regatta in holland (voc) 5/6 boats, other regatta's handicap racing in the old orc fleets which is no fun. boat isn't expensive, maybe the worlds in sweden 2017 will give energy to the class

 

Why is it so difficult to entry sport boat regatta sailing ?

 

People look fo:

- value for money boat with reasonble resell possibilities after 5-6 years

-4 / 5 fleet regatta 's a year with minimum 15- 25 class fleet boats

- sailing locations with reasonable hotelcosts

 

Why is this possible ?

 

My brother did key west 2017 on a sailingschool flying tiger 7.5, lots of fun but not sailing on your own boat and own crew.

 

Why is qt-er sailing still popular in Uk and Holland (and France), the qt-ers are much slower as you think. Look at this:

 

 

 

So it must be easy to sell people sportboats in large numbers. In mine opinion the c&c 30 is one of the most beatifull. But there is no easy road to c&c30 class fleet sailing.

 

There must be some wise people around to fix the sportboat class problem if you think the j/70 is too small for your team.

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Probably the sports boats will die completely at all!

You can't weekend on them. You can't cruise on them for a holiday. And...... for way less money you bye an open cat (foiling or not) which is way faster and even requires less crew!

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Im not.. Ive sailed on Themis, Awesome boat. I understand what the guys in the fleet are trying to do, and how they want to spend their money.

 

Stop complaining. If more guys with a large expendable income in other classes help to build the class instead of complaining, racing would be at an awesome level in more fleets.

 

Sure the class could put in a few measures to lower costs, and maybe they should in some aspects, but the person who wants to spend because they earnt their money will, spend their money.

 

A good example is the GP42 change to the Soto 40. Soto's were cheaper and lower spec, No ribs, no containers, sails stay on the yacht an entire event, tighter sail cards etc etc. Didn't work, the guys who wanted to race the cool boat went and raced the cool boat.

 

C&C 30 is the cool boat. Get behind it and start a local fleet with the bunch of 2nd hand boats available, you dont need pro's and Ribs for that.

I am not sure the CC30 is the cool boat. Yes I have sailed it, and it was a fun 30 footer. But, it also has its downfalls such as coming out over weight. Dollar for Dollar, there may be better options. The new G-Force 32 is around the same price point. They don't list weight yet, but it may be the better option. The MC31 could be as well if someone imports one to the states. Best bang for your buck right now in the 30 range is a used Melges 32. Just go ask the ED.

MC31... Serious? better do some research on that one...

 

Melges 32 is limited to W/L. They don't carry safety gear weight very well, cant go upwind in waves or Carry reaching sails with out breaking stuff. Been there, done that. Got the t-Shirt.

 

Is there 10 G-Force 32's sailing on one start line anywhere?

What happened to the mc31? A few showed up in Aus, and I haven't heard a word since

Ill let that one slide through to the keeper.

 

Look at Geelong Festival of sails results in the Super 11 fleet.

An MC31 races in the Sydney Super 30 fleet against Farr 30s, Flying Tigers, Melges 32, HIck 30... Pretty handy bunch of blokes and it has its wind range but with comparative crew, is Flying Tiger/Farr 30 pace in moderate breeze. No where near the Melges 32. I know they made it to meet Cat 2 (because we all dream of long distance offshore races on a flush deck 30 footer...) but how they managed to make a smaller, carbon boat weigh the same as a low tech Flying Tiger is a mystery. If you want to be out in front, buy a used Melges for a third of the cost. Want to mix it with the fleet, buy a Tiger for half that again, or the Farr and then you can even dream of going offshore for days too...

 

Yes it is a bit porky (MC31) they originally said 1750kg which is 10% lighter than a MUMM which can go offshore (albeit 22yr older design) but they tipped the scales at 2100 or something in the end?

 

Built to cat 2 ISO but that's an overnight Brisbane to Gladstone these days. Hardly a long offshore race.

 

& ZZ open Cat would be great but you got park / store it $$$

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I guess that storing an open cat is way cheaper than storing a sports boat (being it in the water or on the hard).

When that is too much: go wind- or kitesurfing. Even less crew needed, faster and way cheaper! (and not to forget: lots of fun!)

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Not sure what planet you live on but here on earth SQM = $$ and a 30'x25' cat is charged accordingly round ere'

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When that is too much: go wind- or kitesurfing. Even less crew needed, faster and way cheaper! (and not to forget: lots of fun!)

Exactly. Everyone gets so excited about 30' sport boats going 20 knots. That's my AVERAGE speed when I'm kiting.

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When that is too much: go wind- or kitesurfing. Even less crew needed, faster and way cheaper! (and not to forget: lots of fun!)

Exactly. Everyone gets so excited about 30' sport boats going 20 knots. That's my AVERAGE speed when I'm kiting.

 

 

Masturbation is fun alone too. But sex is better with another.

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Depends on who the other person is. In some cases....... singlehanded might be better :lol:

Seriously - the market for single purpose specialized expensive race boats is small IMHO no matter how you look at it. Catch 22 - If you make a boat like the original C&C 30s, you have a boat that can be used for just about any purpose and will have a much wider appeal as a used boat. The high rollers that are buying the new boats aren't interested in that. Best case is they do well enough to supply the used market eventually and spread the class downwards into local club races. Worst case someone else comes up with their own Big $$$ 30, it becomes the new in thing, and this class dies :(

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Kent has hit the nail on the head. The sportboat challenge, esp. in the larger sizes, (and this thread illustrates it perfectly), is people spending that kind of coin are going for the latest, greatest, fastest boat they can find. Plus many want it to be offshore capable (under a myriad of rules too)...Smaller boats have a better chance, a la J/70 or Melges 24...part of it is timing, part of J/70's success is marketing and brand recognition. Other part is no one expects it to be offshore capable, which eases the requirements on the build.

 

So you've limited yourself to a small group to begin with (as SCANAS said, because we all dream of long distance offshore races in a flush deck 30 footer)...folks who are willing to spend coin on a single purpose boat, that still needs pros to race (at the top), etc, etc...most of us with less disposable income either buy a RC because we can get more utility from it, or a small sporty, cause we can afford that much more easily...and there are actually OD classes to race in...

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Kent has hit the nail on the head. The sportboat challenge, esp. in the larger sizes, (and this thread illustrates it perfectly), is people spending that kind of coin are going for the latest, greatest, fastest boat they can find. Plus many want it to be offshore capable (under a myriad of rules too)...Smaller boats have a better chance, a la J/70 or Melges 24...part of it is timing, part of J/70's success is marketing and brand recognition. Other part is no one expects it to be offshore capable, which eases the requirements on the build.

 

So you've limited yourself to a small group to begin with (as SCANAS said, because we all dream of long distance offshore races in a flush deck 30 footer)...folks who are willing to spend coin on a single purpose boat, that still needs pros to race (at the top), etc, etc...most of us with less disposable income either buy a RC because we can get more utility from it, or a small sporty, cause we can afford that much more easily...and there are actually OD classes to race in...

 

"going for the latest, greatest, fastest boat they can find"

 

they need to be convinced that this is a mistake

 

there should be more value placed on OD sailing than there is currently.

 

the notion that you can "race" sailboats under handicaps and ratings needs to challenged more aggressively - except in very narrow circumstances, none of those rules work. those special circumstances do not exist in 99% of the handicap and rating racing that is done in the USA.

 

When Corny Shields started the International One Design class (a ~34ft boat) 75 or so years ago, he formed a syndicate that ordered nearly 30 of the boats! They bought them for local fleet racing. The syndicate members had never seen one of the boats. They knew there would be good OD sailing - and that was enough. maybe some were worried that some other boat was 1/4kt faster.., but i guess they were eventually convinced that it didn't matter. within a few years there were other fleets. you can read about it in his book.

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us7070: Yes and no. All a OD class needs to be good is for *the boats to be the same*. You could make a better OD fleet out of Catalina 30s (or almost any other Catalina) than any "race boat" ever built. There are a lot of them and they are everywhere.

The people in 2017 getting into big OD boats seem to want BOTH identical boats AND the latest fastest carbon fantastic speed demon. I can see why too, unless they race off on their own away from other boats, they want to win boat for boat too or at least not be slower than comparable boats. Island Packets are thus not likely to ever be a hot OD class :rolleyes:

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From what i have seen, the majority of the people i know with RC's use them solely for racing. It makes me wonder why the hell they don't just buy a raceboat and be done with it - faster, easier for the crew to work on, less shit to ding up in the cabin, etc. But it seems the market wants the "ability" to cruise, despite the fact that they (the people i am referencing) never do. IRC has its comprimise around the 40' mark so i'll sort of give those boats a pass.... Obviously it's not completely cut and dry.

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Looks like they built 35 C&C 30's +/-. Does that sound right?

5 are for sale in the US on yachtworld

6 are registered for Block IRW with 4 months to go

 

J-88 (not a comp I understand but broader appeal as you can overnight in the boat) built 98-100

3 for sale in the US yachtworld only (1 is new)

5 registered for Block iRW

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What RCs get used for:

The definition of RC is a bit fuzzy, some of them are nothing anyone would cruise on IMHO. That said, just because the RC is not cruising NOW does not mean she never will. There have been plenty of older boats with multiple lives, going from strictly racing to mixed use to cruising to live aboard to voyaging and maybe back through the cycle again. The current crop of OD racers do not look they will ever have second lives as family cruisers. This makes the long term TCO problematic, for anyone that cares about that, because the boat is either a hot OD boat or ..........what?????????? :unsure:

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Old racehorses are notoriously poor investments.

 

Are new racehorses good investments?

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From what i have seen, the majority of the people i know with RC's use them solely for racing. It makes me wonder why the hell they don't just buy a raceboat and be done with it - faster, easier for the crew to work on, less shit to ding up in the cabin, etc. But it seems the market wants the "ability" to cruise, despite the fact that they (the people i am referencing) never do. IRC has its comprimise around the 40' mark so i'll sort of give those boats a pass.... Obviously it's not completely cut and dry.

Based on a lot of years of observation, it's because when you bring your non sailing friends out for a day sail, it's more impressive to have furniture and square footage. Same reason people buy bigger houses than they need. It's in our nature to show off.

 

Or to actually be honest, it's because it's often the only way the wife will agree.

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Or to actually be honest, it's because it's often the only way the wife will agree.

 

 

Ding ding ding!!

 

I worked for several years part-time as a race boat broker. I had any number of clients who wanted to move up from their 30-ish R/C to 40' or so, and race more seriously. I knew them and their programs/habits - these guys raced every weekend (often both days), and delivery crew brought their boats back from Mac for them, and they never day-sailed. I would talk to them about picking up a pretty recent (1-3 year old) race boat for pennies on the dollar where they could put the extra $$ into a full set of sails, bottom job, and they were like "Oh no, it needs to be a R/C with an interior". "Why?" "You're never even down below on your own boat except for Mac!" "My wife wants a boat with an interior we could cruise". But said wife was never seen on the boat previously... it really was more of a "I can't spend that kind of money unless it's something she will also approve of".

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The Cape 31 was launched last week in Cape Town, also a Mills design it is not limited by any towing restrictions and therefore has far more potential. The first boat was built in Rhode Island and shipped over to Cape Town, the tooling is following shortly. The project is financed by Irvine Laidlaw.

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I've owned 5 racer-cruisers...from a J-24 to a J/109, with 3 different 30 footers also in the mix. I raced them all frequently, and cruised them often. Some people actually do use their boats that way.

 

Nothing against pure raceboats, nor pure cruisers.

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The Cape 31 was launched last week in Cape Town, also a Mills design it is not limited by any towing restrictions and therefore has far more potential. The first boat was built in Rhode Island and shipped over to Cape Town, the tooling is following shortly. The project is financed by Irvine Laidlaw.

 

 

wait, are you saying the C&C 30 tooling was bought by Irvine Laidlaw and is being shipped to Cape Town?

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Bunch of soft cocks. Fuck the wife then tell her you're off sailing with your mates on your rocket ship 30 and that dinner better be ready when you get home, whatever time that will be, after you finish a few drinks at the club. 😎

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Bunch of soft cocks. Fuck the wife then tell her you're off sailing with your mates on your rocket ship 30 and that dinner better be ready when you get home, whatever time that will be, after you finish a few drinks at the club. 😎

How much do you pay in alimony/child support, or is she dumber than a box or rocks?

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Bunch of soft cocks. Fuck the wife then tell her you're off sailing with your mates on your rocket ship 30 and that dinner better be ready when you get home, whatever time that will be, after you finish a few drinks at the club. 😎

How much do you pay in alimony/child support, or is she dumber than a box or rocks?
I'm betting on never married, since I like the way he thinks.

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Bunch of soft cocks. Fuck the wife then tell her you're off sailing with your mates on your rocket ship 30 and that dinner better be ready when you get home, whatever time that will be, after you finish a few drinks at the club.

How much do you pay in alimony/child support, or is she dumber than a box or rocks?

 

 

If you have to ask you can't afford it!

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The C%C 30 wase doomed by ist performinttes, they wearre percsecuitted from the starte. Askse the owener of Weejee. Tottalle rippoffe on the ALIR. Peopel coude see what wase gonig on.

 

:)

 

 

Free tehh Weejee!

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